Camo's Movie Log

I have The Miracle of Morgan's Creek on my 40's watchlist!





I may not watch it now that I know you're a fan though

I pulled that out of nowhere. I'm following like 12 different best of the 40's lists at once and when i wanted to watch a comedy i kind of randomly picked that. It was only after i watched it i found out it was Preston Sturges who directed the much more popular/acclaimed Sullivan's Travels. Sullivan's Travels was pretty good i thought but i really loved The Miracle of Morgan's Creek, hope you like it if you check it out. At the end i said i hope people check this out and that was mostly to you because you are the only other member killing the 40's also, as in make this a priority haha.

I liked Sullivan's Travels more than I expected, although it's not a threat to make my 40's list.

Same. The Miracle of Morgan's Creek is though.

The best thing about Sullivan's Travel's was Veronica Lake and her voice. Her voice disarmed me, i really didn't expect that. #1 Babe.

Shame you didn't like Pontypool more; Welles accent is absolutely atrocious in Shanghai; kudos for listening to and watching Joy Div material - do watch Control

That was at least the third time i've listened to both Albums, i struggle with Joy Division while finding New Order easy to listen to but boring mostly. I think i get sucked into the Ian Curtis story somewhat which is why Joy Division is something i'm drawn to even though i don't like them all that much.

I do kinda like them i just don't quite understand (i understand it, i mean feel it myself basically) their appeal which is largely due to being born long after they ceased being a band and not discovering them until i had heard many bands that were inspired by them.

Me, myself preferring (to listen to, at least) Joy Division over New Order feels weird and probably not authentic, i dunno i just struggle with the idea that this dude added so much to them in that short period that they were so much better. Yet i'd definitely listen to Unknown Pleasures (listening to it right now) over any New Order Album.

Think Peter Hook is objectively the best member of both bands anyway.

Hugely influential band but yeah being around and heavily into 'alternative' music at the time made them a lifelong favourite and I can understand those born after not really getting just what made them so special. I was incredibly self-destructive as a youth, still am to an extent, and JD simply struck a massive chord and even to this day are still my number one go-to band when I need 'help'.

The more i listen to them the more i get into them. I mean this has definitely been my favourite listen of Unknown Pleasures right now.

If you've read my posts you know i'm a highly skeptical person and alot of the 'mystique' around Joy Division is related to Ian Curtis suicide so in my mind it should be that Ian added so much to JD that makes them better than New Order but i realize it's not as simple as that and motivations and timing largely played a part in JD working so well.

Hook was the muso but Curtis was always the real 'spark' behind JD. As a huge JD fan Movement is my favourite New Order album, it's an album that still has the spirit of JD and very nicely eased the transition into the pioneers of a different kind they would become.

The most heartbreaking thing ever is that a major theory about Ian's death is that he knew he'd not be able to withstand an American Tour with his epilepsy so he figured they'd quickly kick him out/replace him and he thought if he killed himself he'd always be connected to the band and his wife and daughter would get royalties. I think that's probably a very generous to Ian theory but even if that wasn't his main motivation i think that must have played a part, the timing before they left for America must have meant something. Possibly he realized he'd not be able to go through with an American Tour and that realization triggered his already documented depression.

Well whatever, think i'm spending too much time with suicidal dudes as i'm reading Infinite Jest right now

That's my favourite New Order Album too and i didn't know why exactly, think that's probably it.

As someone who was there it's difficult for me to comment on the 'mystique' that has built up around them since that terrible day - there was/is absolutely no mystique to JD for me, they were simply a band that I identified with on a very personal level, their songs 'spoke' both to and for me. I know it will sound trite but a little piece of me honestly died the same day Ian did.

Yeah ... happier thoughts needed.

No, definitely. I was talking about people like me who weren't about then. For better or worse the band has been transformed into 'Ian Curtis: The Band:', for people who weren't around then i think his suicide and how brief the bands life was plays a big part in its attraction.

For example i must admit here: the first time i heard of Werner Herzog before i'd seen any of his films was technically when i saw some Roger Ebert top 10 list with Aguirre on it but i didn't take notice of the director, it wasn't until i first listened to Joy Division when i was about 13 and read about Ian watching Stroszek before it that i was actually aware of Herzog. I didn't take to Joy Division then, i'm only just doing that now, but their 'mystique' for me was definitely Ian's suicide. As morbid as that is.

I've noticed alot of Joy Division backlash over the years and support of New Order which i think is largely because of that. May be wrong there and people just prefer New Order but i personally like Unknown Pleasures most out of both bands output.

Going to pretend that you changed to that dancing penguin avatar for this even though i know you already had it

Meh, couldn't give a toss what anyone else thinks or says about either of them tbh - far too many people these days arrogantly state their own personal preference as if it were fact and not simply an opinion. JD were very personal to me and NO were undeniably a group that progressed electronic music down one of it's many different paths. That certain things become popular to either 'diss' or 'big-up' according to the season imo just shows how superficial and pseudo people that bandwagon in such things are.

I did change the avatar specifically because of this conversation btw - I just had prior knowledge of it and did so in advance

Yah, i could tell that before you actually said it. Was pretty awesome coming off a Joy Division period right into a discussion with one of my favourite members who turned out to be a big JD fan. Convinced me to listen to Unknown Pleasures again and i'm probably going to listen to Closer later tonight or tomorrow.

I think in the end i'm still skeptical of Joy Division, or more accurately i'm skeptical of my interest in them . I myself prefer them to New Order but i don't really understand why as it's not that i miss Ian Curtis in New Order that much. Mostly i think it's that both JD albums are really consistent and New Orders best stuff is more scattered about, i also think that even though i wasn't about for it and overall i'm glad that they did them replacing Ian makes them feel pretty manufactured; dunno how else to put it. The story of these guys meeting at a Sex Pistols gig and putting together something great is amazing, i'm not silly enough to think of bands as 'real' or whatever and i know JD was just as manufactured but the abrupt change definitely affects my enjoyment of them.

Maybe it's a generational thing or me being part of 'generation punk' but don't really see the need for skepticism, things ether interest/intrigue/please me or they don't .... maybe I should just refer to myself as 'generation simple'

For me there's no 'filler' on either JD album, personally I don't even think there are any particularly weak tracks so I'd agree both are consistently strong. I think NO's Movement is equally strong tbf and PCL is solid enough and I enjoy much of both Low-Life and Brotherhood but for me personally the spark had pretty much fizzled out by Technique. As said before I think Movement (and preceding it by issuing Ceremony/In A Lonely Place) eased the transition between JD and NO very nicely indeed, the difference in styles certainly became far more abrupt but in real time it actually felt relatively gradual at the beginning.

Just to point out NO never replaced Ian, Hooky took over vocals and the name was changed because everyone that cared knew there could be no more JD without Ian. Also I think there's a huge difference between groups that form relatively organically and those put together with a specific purpose in mind - personally I like to reserve the term 'manufactured' for groups such as Boyzone and The Spice Girls

I agree with just about everything you said. As i said i didn't know what else to call it, i didn't really mean manufactured that was just the word that came to mind, Ian being replaced with a different vocalist makes it seem more like a business than a band basically. I know how stupid that sounds but i think that's something that subconsciously affects my enjoyment of New Order.

I'm skeptical of my enjoyment of Joy Division over New Order because i acknowledge that things about Ian besides him as a musician factors in (his 'epilepsy' dance for example outside what we've already talked about) even though it shouldn't. And Joy Division had such a short time: 5 years, 2 Albums, the vast majority of it was (generally) small gigs; New Order had a much larger output and plenty of great stuff yet i'd much prefer to listen to JD's tiny output. I think i'm just naturally skeptical of everything, especially myself so JD's short lifespan is something i'm going to internally question myself about: i need to know how much that affects me but i don't think i can know that really. haha