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Honestly, this is probably my biggest obstacle to any of these conspiracy theories. The minute Tillerson calls Trump an idiot we find out yet I am supposed to buy that presidential assassinations and collapsing bldgs on top of citizens happened and God knows how many people just sit tight lipped. Don't buy it for a second.
I'm open to JFK conspiracies more than pretty much any other major conspiracy but yeah this is a major obstacle to me to. I think a big reason so many holes pop up in these sorts of things and why the government is often so secretive is because they regularly dismiss warning signs for whatever reason. They must get an absurd amount and it's impossible to act on everything so you've got to judge what is and isn't worthy intel, think they are often wrong. Of course Conspiracy Theorists will say they dismissed the intel because they were in on it, which is cool that could be true. I'm not completely convinced that Oswald was a lone shooter, but i'm not convinced by most of the theories either, think lots of them are ridiculous/incoherent and everyone seems to combine and dismiss arbitrary ones for reasons that their own conspiracies can be dismissed. IMO anyway.

Thought about buying Reclaiming History since that seems to be the definitive Oswald Lone Wolf book followed buy a major Conspiracy one: again there's no unified theory so you'd have to read several Conspiracy Theory ones to attempt to scope it all out and i've not got enough interest in it for that. Reclaiming History is 1600 Goddarn pages though, like well done for being extensive Bugliosi but you've just talked yourself out of a sale buddy!

Think 9/11 the government Conspiracies have been conclusively debunked, think the government messed up in regard to that but i don't believe they did it or allowed it to happen. I also don't personally believe the Diana ones but i fully admit there's weird stuff there and understand why people buy into that one. Like Yoda my main problem is people who buy into everything, Infowars listeners basically. Not saying anyone here is like that and obviously i don't believe the government is always telling me the truth.

Also @Gangland if you make a Blog Post/Blog Posts about this link them in this thread if you weren't already going to.



I'm open to JFK conspiracies more than pretty much any other major conspiracy but yeah this is a major obstacle to me to. I think a big reason so many holes pop up in these sorts of things and why the government is often so secretive is because they regularly dismiss warning signs for whatever reason. They must get an absurd amount and it's impossible to act on everything so you've got to judge what is and isn't worthy intel, think they are often wrong. Of course Conspiracy Theorists will say they dismissed the intel because they were in on it, which is cool that could be true. I'm not completely convinced that Oswald was a lone shooter, but i'm not convinced by most of the theories either, think lots of them are ridiculous/incoherent and everyone seems to combine and dismiss arbitrary ones for reasons that their own conspiracies can be dismissed. IMO anyway.

Thought about buying Reclaiming History since that seems to be the definitive Oswald Lone Wolf book followed buy a major Conspiracy one: again there's no unified theory so you'd have to read several Conspiracy Theory ones to attempt to scope it all out and i've not got enough interest in it for that. Reclaiming History is 1600 Goddarn pages though, like well done for being extensive Bugliosi but you've just talked yourself out of a sale buddy!

Think 9/11 the government Conspiracies have been conclusively debunked, think the government messed up in regard to that but i don't believe they did it or allowed it to happen. I also don't personally believe the Diana ones but i fully admit there's weird stuff there and understand why people buy into that one. Like Yoda my main problem is people who buy into everything, Infowars listeners basically. Not saying anyone here is like that and obviously i don't believe the government is always telling me the truth.

Also @Gangland if you make a Blog Post/Blog Posts about this link them in this thread if you weren't already going to.
I hear you. If someone's conspiracy goes as far as Oswald wasn't alone and they never figured out who is partner or two was, I might be able to get down with that. A multiple agency big brother cover up? I'm out. No way that many people stay quiet.
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Letterboxd



I hear you. If someone's conspiracy goes as far as Oswald wasn't alone and they never figured out who is partner or two was, I might be able to get down with that. A multiple agency big brother cover up? I'm out. No way that many people stay quiet.
Yeah, i'm with you mate. I know this means alot to you guys in a genuine way so i don't like talking to you about it. If i'm honest alot of my leniency with JFK Theories compared to others is really loving the time all of this happened.

I don't have a nationalist bone in my body but i totally get you guys love some of your leaders and JFK's assassination meaning alot to you guys.

I'm definitely not well equipped to discuss this; i mean i think i know more about JFK (The President) than 99% of people but that's mostly irrelevant i think.



We've gone on holiday by mistake
I'd be interesting in hearing why you don't believe in the Moon Landing conspiracy..
From recollection I think it's been proven that we've been there. Telescopes can look at the landing site/stuff left behind, even tracks from buggy are still there etc, and no one has come up with any believable evidence to the contrary.

However I think it's possible that shenanigans went on. Can I just say that again "possible". The US was after all under massive pressure to catch up/overtake the Soviets in this field by the end of the decade, a promise made by Kennedy.

What do I mean shenanigans?

-possible that Apollo 11 didn't make it but later missions did.
-possible that an alternate was filmed in the event of failure, maybe involving Kubrick.
-possible that the alternate was used but Apollo 11 was successful also.




"Evaded" makes it sound like it was some kind of argument that I needed to address. I took it as a rhetorical question. Kinda thought it was answered when I said it was reasonable that those things made people more skeptical of government, too. But just in case any of it wasn't clear: yes, I understand why scandals might lead people to more easily entertain conspiracies. But it shouldn't change how they weigh evidence or assess facts.


And frankly, you can make a good argument that it ought to have the opposite effect: if they can't even keep that secret, it makes you wonder how they're supposed to keep much bigger secrets, involving many more people, from coming out...
Yes I concede it's a good point, if they can't keep Watergate secret how can they with JFK. Lets remember though Watergate was the work of 2 dogged journalists with a little help from "Deep Throat", nudging them in the right direction. With JFK the world was presented with the culprit within hours of the shooting, then before he was really talked to he was dead, initially it seemed like an open/shut case. With the burglary if memory serves guys were caught but they were footsoldiers, the leaders were at large and the hunt was on.



The problem is that, with this standard, the claims of a conspiracy are basically unfalsifiable.

There's an old joke I like: A dog only barks on two occasions:

1. When some one is at the door.
2. When no one is at the door.

This is kinda like that: every fact can either be seized on as evidence of the conspiracy coming to light, or an example of how good the conspirators are at stopping evidence from coming to light. It sounds like two simple claims, but they conveniently cover 100% of possibilities.



That's fine, but the point is that a majority thinking something was going on doesn't really demonstrate that conspiracy theorists are a majority. And as I mentioned, it's been dropping for decades.

Maybe that should be my question, then: can you understand why belief in this kind of thing is going down over time? Or why someone who might have entertained the possibility of a conspiracy is less willing to, given that decades have past without someone definitively spilling the beans? Do you agree that, the more time that passes without that happening, the less likely it is?


Lots of parties have a vested interest in literally any world leader going down at literally any time.
As to the belief I believe that generation for whom JFK was important are dying off, ask a lot of young people and they probably don't know who JFK was, maybe they watched a TV show about it and decided oh well it was Oswald nothing to see here.
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Yeah, i'm with you mate. I know this means alot to you guys in a genuine way so i don't like talking to you about it. If i'm honest alot of my leniency with JFK Theories compared to others is really loving the time all of this happened.

I don't have a nationalist bone in my body but i totally get you guys love some of your leaders and JFK's assassination meaning alot to you guys.

I'm definitely not well equipped to discuss this; i mean i think i know more about JFK (The President) than 99% of people but that's mostly irrelevant i think.
You definitely don't have to worry about me in that regard. Far from a nationalist and everything I know about JFK I learned from Kramer and Newman.



We've gone on holiday by mistake
I hear you. If someone's conspiracy goes as far as Oswald wasn't alone and they never figured out who is partner or two was, I might be able to get down with that. A multiple agency big brother cover up? I'm out. No way that many people stay quiet.
It is a standard opposition to a conspiracy argument that "too many people involved", no way they all stay quiet. Let us remember Edward Snowden coming forward recently to report the massive invasive breaking of the law going on. Perhaps hundreds of thousands of people involved and only Snowden has come forward and he had to flee to Russia. Also most servants of the Intelligence community fall under the powerful umbrella of whichever countries Official secrets act exists, meaning serious jail time and the media probably be banned from exposing whatever you know by means of the same laws. Not to mention if you are one of the few in the JFK case you risk your life speaking out.

Do you really need vast numbers of people? If the man at the top was LBJ, not a massive stretch to believe that being 1 step from POTUS he might have reached out to take for himself, with a bit f help from people with a vested interest in seeing Kennedy gone, some men very angry at Kennedy for not supporting Bay of Pigs for example, firing Allen Dulles. Few hours after the assassination perhaps the man responsible is now the President and ultimately in charge of the investigation, but what investigation, they have the guy.

Pure speculation of course.



Really respect Gandalf's opinion/way of debating here. Don't actually agree with what he's saying but i think he is putting it across very well.

Just wanted to say that coz me and Gandalf have clashed alot and i expected to find his posts ridiculous, they are completely reasonable IMO.



You definitely don't have to worry about me in that regard. Far from a nationalist and everything I know about JFK I learned from Kramer and Newman.
I absolutely wasn't talking about anyone here RE: Nationalist. And i don't actually think there's anything wrong with that. It's just something completely alien to me personally.