If you oppose the war on Iraq, make your voice heard...

Steve: Definitely not hiding behind Vatican crap of any sort.

Celeb: I wish I could share your carefree optimism about the coming war! But, on the other hand, we could all benefit from looking at the lighter side of the situation. So let's make fun of Bush and the world leaders at this point! Anyone up for some political caricaturing?

quite personally i think you are alll sick
if you aren't in support of this country and her president then you're against this country
we're fighting in iraq to uphold the american way of life
if you don't ****ing like it then get the **** out
go somewhere else

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The wold is full of kings and queens
Who blind our eyes and steal our dreams
it's heaven and hell

That statement is why modern political discussion is dead. I do not support the government's current course of action, but this does NOT make me anti-American. I am not against my homeland, I am against it's current leadership. I am a patriotic American, but not in the current "shut up and do what the government tells you" kind of way. I'm patriotic in the way that the original patriots were. They saw something they didn't agree with and made their voices heard. If they just shut up and did what England told them, our country wouldn't exist. America was born of dissent, and I am just carrying on the proud tradition. I love my country, and I can't sit back and be quiet. That would be un-American.

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"You, me, everyone...we are all made of star stuff." - Neil Degrasse Tyson

https://shawnsmovienight.blogspot.com/

Hear, hear!

Um... what exactly do you put on your popcorn?

Drugs. And urine. Of cats.

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www.esotericrabbit.com

Fascist

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**** the Lakers!

Is this a post by theshape82 or by George W Bush? It's hard to tell the difference. "Either you're with us or against us".

Bush has made it very clear that this is a time when every nation should "show their cards". Which means that if a nation doesn't think USA's war against Iraq is justified only because Iraq is a potential future danger to americans, that nation is considered an enemy of USA - or at least "anti-american". USA has weapons of mass destruction. Shall non-supporting nations feel threatened by USA's weapons of mass destruction? USA has stated that they will use any weapon needed to defeat Iraq - perhaps even nuclear weapons. So, with this in mind, USA should be a potential future danger to any nation that doesn't support the war between USA and Iraq. Does this mean that those nations not supporting the war against USA are entitled to attack USA, without support from UN, to secure their future peace and to avoid being killed by weapons of mass destruction?

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

What are you on ????

I think it's coming. I'm trying to be strong.

The point you're making is perfectly valid, but don't you think the fact that Saddam Hussein is an oppressive military dictator is worth recognizing? I support the removal of any fascist (or theocratic, for that matter) leader on principle. Saddam Hussein's regime is the enemy, as is the al Qaeda network, Pakistan, Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Iran, Paraguay, Turkey, and all the others. Freedom, to me, is worth fighting for, regardless of the country. We're all human beings, we all deserve to be free. If the US were a fascist state, I'd support regime change here, too.

The fact that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction is a peripheral issue. Dangerous, yes, but even more dangerous in the hands of a fascist.

On a not-so-unrelated note, what did you all think of the President's speech last night?

Yeah, it definitely is. In the end, I can shoot my stupid mouth off and oppose it all I want, but the sh*t will doubtless hit the fan by the end of the week, at the soonest. Gives one a sense of "resistance is futile," doesn't it?

Enlightening, no?

Attachments

 

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Seek me, for comfort, call me, for Solace, I'll be waiting, for the end of my broken heart..

Plus a lady fan of PimpDaShizzle V2.0 and Most importantly JRS

For Steve: I apologize: PLEASE READ

A while back you and I had a small thing
about the War In Iraq, and we had this exchange:

Originally posted by Danger Diabolik
No Steve, I think YOU, and all the people who refuse to see the truth, should shut up, and you should realize what's going on. People like you are the real source of ignorance....

I'm the ignorant one?

It's obvious you didn't read anything I wrote, because I've spent these last few days arguing in support of an Iraq invasion. The attitude you're taking with me is a lot like the attitude Osama Bin Laden takes with his followers. You're telling me basically that if I disagree with anything you or the President or whomever is saying, then I should get the hell out. That's quite a totalitarian way of looking at things, isn't it?


OK, maybe I was a bit harsh, but so was calling me an American Philistine. You sort of got what you asked for there. I did read what you said, but I was too overclouded by the Anti-American sentiment at the time, and it's something I don't take lightly, from ANYONE.

This will get long, but I don't say something
w\o trying to back it up, so please bear with me here:

No Steve, I am not a totalitarian,
it's just that, I am sick and tired of
people always putting America down,
and hating us for our freedoms.

People bitch about innocent civilians, but forget the people of 9/11 were also innocent people. All of you are so set against this thing, but seem to be at a loss for explaining HOW keeping Saddam and family in power is going to HELP......you seem to forget all the stuff Saddam did and would have continued to do if we kept him in power, as well as the gruesome stories that have arisen as a result of this man.

Can ALL the Iraqi citizens be wrong about Saddam?
Do you think that the American media is making this stuff up? Saddam murdered over a million people,
in cold blood, as opposed to civilian casualties, which are NOT intentional. America does not murder people intentionally,and you know that, or at least you should.

No link between Iraq and terror?

Many of you also forget that while no official link to Saddam and Al Qaeda exists, there IS the link between Arab and Persian for the religion's sake.

The Taliban was a coalition of Chechen, Iranian, as well as some Arabic people, as well as one American traitor, and many countries supported them, and still do. Need I say more?

And this is my point:

Many people with a common enemy (US) will band together to defeat that enemy. And recently we found out that terrorist training camps WERE in fact in Iraq, as well as admissions from POW's that Al-Qaeda DID train there. Need we say more?

Arab, or Persian, Islamic extremists are brothers under the skin. And they can and will support each other. And Saddam had the money to do it too as well as the camps. Terror has no race or religious boundary if more than one group has a common enemy.


As to our allies being concerned for human issues

We recently found out that France and Germany and Russia had their OWN plans in Iraq, and THAT is why they opposed the war. So much for caring about civilians, huh? France had a friggin' oil field deal in Iraq, and Iraq owes Russia 8 billion. Does that sound like they care about innocent civilians? No it's the money.

SO please stop accusing America of being the only country with 'vested interests' in Iraq. Look at how Russia slaughtered thousands of innocent Afghans in the war of the 80's, and ask yourself if THEY really cared about people....no, only THEIR interests-the spread of Communism as well as the oil that country has.

America supplying Iraq with weapons at one time?

LOOK AT YODA'S GRAPH, AND TELL ME WHAT YOU SEE

Everyone had dirty hands in Iraq: AK-47's are Russian as well as RPG's and T-55 tanks. Silkworm missiles are Chinese, and the anti-aircraft guns are distinctly Russian as well. As well, look at how many other countries have Russsian arms and armor (hello Central and South America, as well as some parts of Africa.)

You say it's all about money, well then look at France and Russia too. They had their hands in the pickle jar too not just the U.S.

This said, please accept my apology for my end of harshness, and just try to remember that ther's the way it should be and them there's the way it IS.

No amount of complaining will change things, and America's destiny officially began on 9/11. Like it or not this was going to happen anyway, and has, so we all have to make the best of it. Take care.

Danger Diabolik.

What you do is of little significance, but it is very important that you do it.
-Mahatma Gandhi

We must become the change we want to see in the world.
-Mahatma Gandhi

Huh?

No comment on the chart?

The chart was interesting, though I don't think the 'but the US supported Saddam!' argument has any validity anyway. That's a stupid argument, because it implies that if you've made mistakes before, you can't alter your ways later. Either way, very interesting data.

Yeah Yoda, it was very informative. Now maybe some people the world over will lay off the U.S. and see that other entities armed Iraq at one time. Like I said man, politics is dirty, and EVERYONE has dirty hands. it's a big game...and everyone plays...

I can only hope that Bush dosen't mess up foreign policy like we did after the Afghan-Soviet war, or any other time that would make our mideastern allies think we deserted them. This is the example I use because the Taliban made good use of the mindset that America deserted Afghanistan after they beat the Russians in order to gain supporters.

We have a chance to do something unique here, and I for one hope that the fall of Saddam isn't for nothing...

I would like to comment on the chart.

I checked out the source that the guy who made the chart refers to, and, just as I thought, his chart is a bit misguiding and the numbers taken out of context. If you study the "real chart", which this funny one is based on, you'll see that 1973-1982 as well as 1989-2002 USA exported nothing at all, zero, to Iraq. But between 1983-1988, during the war between Iran and Iraq, USA started to sell conventional weapons. During this period of time Iraq imported about 8.3% of its conventional weapons from USA, which makes USA the third largest arms exporter to Iraq oustide the communist or arab world after France and Denmark (?!) between 1983-1988.

Also:

"Caution should be exercised when using the data in the tables for detailed analysis. Only some of the statistics are fully explained, definitions are not consistent from country to country, and the reports give different definitions for what is included in the category 'arms'. Some countries release figures only on arms exports, while others aggregate exports of arms and dual-use equipment. Some release data on the value of items delivered, others on the value of items approved for export, some on both. In some countries different reports present different national arms export data. To underline this last type of inconsistency, all relevant data are included in the table. No attempt has been made to compensate for any of these comparability problems or possible lack of reliability." http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/at_gov_ind_data.html

I couldn't find any statistics on how much USA sold to Iran during the same period of time, figures that of course are unofficial and impossible to find since these transfers were being done in secret. Thus the chart does also not show the weapons sold to Iraq not accounted for, like any figures representing the gift from USA to Iraq of a large number of american attack helicopters disguised as being for the use of fighting insects. Furthermore the chart only shows the transfers of conventional weapons, not weapons of massdestruction, i.e. nuclear weapons & technology, chemical and biological warfare technology, substances and know-how.

I'm not saying that the "real" chart is turning USA out to be the single only bad guy in this mess, but that you have to read it carefully and with distance before you make any conclusions from it.

Finally, I find it a bit hard to take a chart serious that explains the members of UNSC in that way. Funny, yes. But not imformative and not at all partial.