Fr. v. Jason: bad taste epitomized?

That is precisely what constitutes the glorification of carnage--in fact, it is worse--it is the dangerously unrealistic portrayal of violence. Let them portray violence realistically if they really want to scare people. I, personally, find it hard to see entertainment value in such a packaging of violence. The sort of mentality that sees entertainment value in violence is the same as that of the Roman mob who frequented the Circus Maximus to watch gladiators kill each other for sport. Sure, the crowd was entertained, but the gladiators were the ones to suffer and die. Also the prisoners who were fed to the lions and crucified--again for the sake of a spectacle--for entertainment. There is a fine line between entertainment and bad taste. Question is, when do you cross the line? I guess, it's one thing to view violence from a distance and find entertainment in people killing each other at a distance. It's quite another thing to experience it first-hand. I think that's what 9/11 did--it drove home the meaning of violence and its repurcussions deep into the minds of a pretty jaded American public--a public desensitized to violence by the movies and TV--a public that had never really experienced real violence and its consequences first-hand and, consequently, unable to appreciate what it means to people who do experience it first hand, being distanced from it. It was an ugly, horrifying lesson to learn, but, I think, the horror of that event made a very crucial and important point to anyone who has the insight to appreciate it. The lesson being--let us learn to appreciate the VALUE OF HUMAN LIFE! Let us develop compassion and humanity before we turn into monsters ourselves--monsters no different, in essence, than Jason or Freddy!

There may be morality tale elements in the films, but, let's face it, the primary objective of the films is to make money through sensationalism and the glorification of violence. The morality tale elements are incidental, while the violence is gratuitous. It's all about crowd-pleasing and profit--gratifying the blood-thirsty mob and making a tidy profit out of it in the end. Whatever the morality tale elements in the movies might be, they are overshadowed by the gore in the end.

You are just plain wrong here. Please go buy a dictionary.

No one is walking out of these films saying, "Gee, that Freddy guy is simply glorious!" You could argue that the characters give themselves glory for their kills, but they are evil so that is to be expected. However, you are trying to tell me that these movies are exalting, honoring, and evtravagantly praising violence. Sure the violence is supposed to spark emotions/reactions, but it's not intended to be worshipped.

This is a legitimate opinion. Personally Kong thinks that there is room in the world of film for both formalism and realism, and this might be part of your problem. You seem to be taking an overly realist analysis of what is a very formalist film genre.

Maybe you should read up on theories concerning catharsis and the horror genre, and then come back.

Anyways, you seem convinced that the films are saying that murdering people is not only not a bad thing, but that it is actually a good thing. We really aren't going to get anywhere with that kind of bullheaded thinking on you're part. You should maybe watch a movie with Freddy in it, and make a note of how he is quite obviously the bad guy in the film.

Kong'll agree with you about making money, but you really are unable to drop this glorification crap aren't you?

The morality elements are not at all incidental, they are ingrained into the very fabric of the genre. If you're looking for a way to conviniently dismiss what could be argued as a positive message in these films you're going to have to try harder. It's really hard to get confused in these types of movies. They are very, very un-ambiguous. It's surprising that you can't seem to figure them out.

Nobody is walking out of these films wanting to be like Freddy of Jason. They are clearly shown as bad guys, and not just bad guys. They are also shown to be tortured by their bloodlust, and never sated. Not only that but they usually don't become evil people until they are somehow wronged by others. This sends the message that we should be compassionate to other people, because our cruelty towards others can result in the creation of evil. Hold on...didn't you say something along those very same lines? Yes, yes. I think you did. It went something like, "let us develop compassion and humanity before we turn into monsters ourselves". Wow! You express the same sentiment as Freddy vs. Jason! Whoda thunk?

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This is very true. An entire book was written about it, in fact: Monsters From the Id: The Rise of Horror in Fiction and Film. Horror films are sometimes made mindlessly, sure, but the book makes a very compelling case that the genre has come about for very specific reasons -- sexual guilt chief among them.

Regardless, as I stated before, no one who makes (or watches) these movies is actually taking joy in the idea of slaughtering innocent people, and you damn well know it. Kudos for dropping the extreme "sadism" in favor of "glorifying," but neither is applicable here.

I've always enjoyed the Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street series as mindless fun, so I was looking forward to this movie while not putting any hope on it being any better than any of the others. However, IMO, this film is the best either series has put out since the first movies of each. It wasn't scary but it had some shocking elements to it, and they portrayed both villains perfectly. I'll be purchasing a copy on DVD for sure, and I may even go back to the theatre and see it a second time. Horror movies of this nature are few and far between lately, it was quite refreshing.

personally i loved the movie...seen it three times this week

and if you don't like movies that are gorey and glorify violence and all that jazz i have just one peace of advice for you
don't watch them

they are made for people who actually do want to watch them
like me

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Egads! Shape, you make my point exactly! I don't know what's scarier--the fact that such movies are actually made, or the fact that folks who watch them do so because they actually enjoy the glorification of violence and carnage! No offense, but to me, that's a little disturbing!

You sound like one of those whiny suburban moms who want to ban or censor everything. Movies are not real. Freddy Vs. Jason will not hurt anyone. It's a silly-ass movie where two b-movie monsters fight. Nobody is really killed. I enjoyed this a lot. It was funny as all hell. Do I think it glorifies violence? No. That's stupid. You really just need to sit back, take a deep breath, maybe have a beer or two, and say to yourself, "It's just a movie." I personally love the horror genre, and I don't think that makes me a disturbed individual.

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Incidentally, I just had to reply to one more thing!

I am not a woman! I am a healthy, well-built bi-curious male in his mid-30s about to re-enter the dating scene!


I do not know about you, but I do not think hell is very funny! You are sick and twisted! No offense! Just my opinion!

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I am still laughing at you!

It's always a fun time when Dwango enters the scene.


He even has a current avatar....this is too much.

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For my take on censorship, check this thread: http://www.movieforums.com/community...ead.php?t=5133

About the movie, I think what makes it all the more disturbing is when you don't take it too seriously. I haven't seen the movie, so I can't pass judgment on it. But I do think it's an issue of at least some concern.

"Dwango", you're about as funny as open heart surgery. No offense!

But George of Django.....That's what you've been doing for this whole thread! (oh, and do gay people really hate you because you're straight? I read that on another thread, and I gotta say thank you for the laugh and a half. like somwhere, there's a gay guy who's all "Damn that Django for not liking other men! DAMN HIM, I say!" )

Okay, okay! What I meant to say was, as I haven't seen the movie, I cannot comment specifically on the movie in particular. However, based on the limited exposure I have to the movie (via trailers, posters, etc.) and to the genre in general, etc., etc.

About the rest of it, I think you're misquoting me a little, there, Monkeypunch ol' boy!

So, You didn't say:
Whatever. Don't sweat it. I'm just bustin' your chops a bit, no harm intended. Just a little friendly humour.

Well . . . I still think you're taking it out of context.

Django, just how many Friday or Freddy movies have you seen?

And your avatar regarding Stallone... I haven't seen first blood for many years, but I do remember many of his other films. So maybe he portrays a 'nam vet in one movie, in the bajillion other movies he's made, he's usually just some guy, down on his luck, seeking revenge. Then he kills a bunch of guys.

They're generally stupid, but entertaining action flicks. And they DO glorify violence, by being filled with it. That was the selling point for about 95% of his movies, guaranteeing to see him take out like 50 guys a movie.

Obviously you aren't a horror fan, thats fine. But you're like a vegan coming into a "Man, I like beef" thread and trying to convince all the beef eaters to try Soy-based products.

And thats all I have to say about that.

Dave

I'm not sure that's a valid comparison.

For example, I really enjoy the Indiana Jones movies in which Harrison Ford shoots up the Nazis (pretty violently--e.g. the scene in Raiders when he runs over a Nazi with a truck--pretty damn violent) and openly expresses his hatred for Nazis ("Nazis... I hate those guys!").

But that's a far cry from these movies that seem to glorify serial killers on the rampage. That's a whole different ball game because it glorifies mindless carnage. As I said earlier, it's kind of like going to a movie in which the main protagonist is someone like Charles Manson or Jack the Ripper--movies like this seem to make icons out of serial killers and violent psychopaths. But that's just my opinion.

"Look! He's over there, beating that dead horse!"

You don't like horror flicks, don't see them! There is no reason for this thread to go on for this long!

Yes there is, its fun to have Django make horribly long and really repetitive arguments about other people's opinions! So I say let it continue as long as it can because just reading this thread makes me want to go watch the Bed-in-half scene again.

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