Originally Posted by Django
That is precisely what constitutes the glorification of carnage
You are just plain wrong here. Please go buy a dictionary.
No one is walking out of these films saying, "Gee, that Freddy guy is simply glorious!" You could argue that the characters give themselves glory for their kills, but they are evil so that is to be expected. However, you are trying to tell me that these movies are exalting, honoring, and evtravagantly praising violence. Sure the violence is supposed to spark emotions/reactions, but it's not intended to be worshipped.
Originally Posted by Django
--in fact, it is worse--it is the dangerously unrealistic portrayal of violence. Let them portray violence realistically if they really want to scare people.
This is a legitimate opinion. Personally Kong thinks that there is room in the world of film for both formalism and realism, and this might be part of your problem. You seem to be taking an overly realist analysis of what is a very formalist film genre.
Originally Posted by Django
I, personally, find it hard to see entertainment value in such a packaging of violence. The sort of mentality that sees entertainment value in violence is the same as that of the Roman mob who frequented the Circus Maximus to watch gladiators kill each other for sport. Sure, the crowd was entertained, but the gladiators were the ones to suffer and die. Also the prisoners who were fed to the lions and crucified--again for the sake of a spectacle--for entertainment. There is a fine line between entertainment and bad taste. Question is, when do you cross the line? I guess, it's one thing to view violence from a distance and find entertainment in people killing each other at a distance. It's quite another thing to experience it first-hand. I think that's what 9/11 did--it drove home the meaning of violence and its repurcussions deep into the minds of a pretty jaded American public--a public desensitized to violence by the movies and TV--a public that had never really experienced real violence and its consequences first-hand and, consequently, unable to appreciate what it means to people who do experience it first hand, being distanced from it. It was an ugly, horrifying lesson to learn, but, I think, the horror of that event made a very crucial and important point to anyone who has the insight to appreciate it. The lesson being--let us learn to appreciate the VALUE OF HUMAN LIFE! Let us develop compassion and humanity before we turn into monsters ourselves--monsters no different, in essence, than Jason or Freddy!
Maybe you should read up on theories concerning catharsis and the horror genre, and then come back.
Anyways, you seem convinced that the films are saying that murdering people is not only not a bad thing, but that it is actually a good thing. We really aren't going to get anywhere with that kind of bullheaded thinking on you're part. You should maybe watch a movie with Freddy in it, and make a note of how he is quite obviously the bad guy in the film.
Originally Posted by Django
There may be morality tale elements in the films, but, let's face it, the primary objective of the films is to make money through sensationalism and the glorification of violence.
Kong'll agree with you about making money, but you really are unable to drop this glorification crap aren't you?
Originally Posted by Django
The morality tale elements are incidental, while the violence is gratuitous.
The morality elements are not at all incidental, they are ingrained into the very fabric of the genre. If you're looking for a way to conviniently dismiss what could be argued as a positive message in these films you're going to have to try harder. It's really hard to get confused in these types of movies. They are very, very un-ambiguous. It's surprising that you can't seem to figure them out.
Nobody is walking out of these films wanting to be like Freddy of Jason. They are clearly shown as bad guys, and not just bad guys. They are also shown to be tortured by their bloodlust, and never sated. Not only that but they usually don't become evil people until they are somehow wronged by others. This sends the message that we should be compassionate to other people, because our cruelty towards others can result in the creation of evil. Hold on...didn't you say something along those very same lines? Yes, yes. I think you did. It went something like,
"let us develop compassion and humanity before we turn into monsters ourselves". Wow! You express the same sentiment as
Freddy vs. Jason! Whoda thunk?