Philosophical Pursuit of the Nature and Meaning of Hardcore/Punk/Metal

Oh man, I know so little about the Wu Tang Clan. Haha, I totally thought it was the antagonist from Scream they were referencing. Well, that's much better then.

I must admit that Phantom Limb was one of the Pig Destroyer albums that I really liked initially. But I bought the CD having not listened to it in years, and yeah I was actually a bit disappointed. I mean it's still good, but it's no Painter of Dead Girls or Prowler in the Yard.

I've been to three Underoath concerts. I remember one in particular: I was in the mosh pit doing my own thing having fun. More or less bumping into people, but not trying to hurt anyone, and embracing the bruises I was getting. But this one dick head who was standing on the edge of the mosh pit, not moshing himself, shoved me back in when I paused to take a bit of a breather. The first time I was like, what a dick, but the second time it really ticked me off. So I went out the other side of the mosh pit, pushed my way through the crowd until I was behind him and shoved him into the mosh pit as hard as I could. It felt sooooo good. I can't stand dick heads like that. I mean if you want to push people into the mosh pit that's one thing, but not if you stand on the sideline the whole time and don't even go in yourself.

Norma Jean were pretty good live, and so was Rufio. Professional bands don't really have the same energy as local bands though. Fancy lights, pyrotechnics, and outstanding sound equipment do not compensate for passion.

The best concert that I ever went to was definitely Alexisonfire in 2003. I talked about it back on the first page of the thread. I did make a mistake about how old I was though, I was 18 at the time. It was around one of the most depressing times of my life, and they just perfectly captured how I felt. I can't believe how much energy they had live. I've never seen anyone perform like that since.

Hahahahaha good **** dude, show the dumb f*ck that if you wanna stand near the pit and be a big bitch you get your just desserts. One time I had a smaller dude (I'm like 6'3 270lbs and he was maybe 5'8 150lbs?) and he just clocks me in the back of the head during the circle pit, because I sent him flying earlier. So I stop on a dime, wheel around and see this little fu*ker trying to come at me, so I reached down and pulled his shirt over his head hockey style and threw a couple to his head before I threw him in a head lock then security arrived and split us up. I was the one who got kicked out because I was bigger and had actually hurt the guy, but he was the salty prick that decided to try and sucker punch me.

One time my buddy Dan and his girlfriend Cass(she was a legit metal chick) and I were at this show with some friends and these idiots showed up trying to crash the show by throwing down in the pit, and the one dude cracked Cass so hard that she started crying. Well next thing I know I see Dan walk across the pit and punch this dudes lights out right there, his buddy tried to get into it with Dan, and I saw this as a perfect opportunity to bodycheck this dude into Dan, who pushes him back into me, then everyone we were with basically started pinballing his guy while he buddy was out cold, after he was sufficiently beaten up, he got his buddy and left without hassle.

My favourite was during Watain like 7 years back, my buddy Mike who was bigger than I had come into town to attend the show and hang out with me and Dan and crew. So we're going mad for Watain and all the sudden I feel this tree trunk strike me in the face, didn't think much of it because I realized it was Mike's shoulder and no harm no foul. Well after a song or two Dan's girlfriend came tugging at me asking if I was ok etc. Apparently it had cracked my nose open and I was pouring blood, I was covered in it, all in my hair(I have long blonde hair) and on my face and shirt.. So I decided to try and find a bathroom(This show was held in the University), and the only place around was a bathroom converted to a muslim foot bath, but I didn't know what it was until I was bleeding into the basin and trying to clean up with the tap. Two gentlemen walked in, indeed to use this facility for it's intended purpose only to find a dirty heathen like myself desecrating it. Sigh. Dan came in a few minutes later laughing his ass off at the faces the guys pulled while leaving in quite a hurry he said.

__________________

Oh man, I can't believe someone would hurt a woman like that. I'm glad they got what they deserved. Pretty interesting stories. Makes me want to go to a show with you sometime. That Goatfaced Killa singer had blood dripping down his face during the show too because he cracked a coke can over his forehead and didn't realise it cut him. He just thought the blood was sweat. So, just out of curiosity, do you still go to shows? What's the Black Metal scene like? The Post-Hardcore scene was full of a lot of wimpy kids back when I was in my late teens, early twenties. There were some tough guys, but mostly wimps. The underground Hardcore scene was considerably tougher though. Those guys were reckless, but I didn't get to go to many of those.

I used to avoid listening to Pornogrind, Goregrind, and Deathgrind because it was too heavy and I didn't really want to acquire a taste for it. But I've reached the point in my life where I really don't care. I see it as pretty abstract, and I just look for interesting talented music no matter how heavy it is. I found this band called Aborted Hitler Cock yesterday that had interesting vocals. What a ridiculous name for a band though, lol. The one thing I still haven't really touched is that incredibly raw Black Metal with so much static that you can barely hear the music. It's a bit creepy and makes me think of something a murdering rapist would listen to while making a snuff film.

There is a lot of really good Christian Hardcore too. I don't know if you've ever looked into the stuff, but you're probably familiar with Zao. The thing about "Christian" music is that a lot of it, if not most, is "Christian" in name alone but has basically secular lyrics. Zao's first album is really awesome though, and the same for Underoath's first two albums. I already posted Underoath's stuff, but check out Zao:

Not nearly as versed in extreme music as you guys, but will say Pig Destroyer is one of my faves. Zotis I'm sure you recall my recent venture into metal late last year. My then guitar teacher told me to listen to Phantom Limb. I did, and immediately fell in love with the band.

I think Hayes is a lyrical genius, and the added intellect he brings to the music with his lyrics - no, it's straight up poetry - really elevates them for me. He has a way with words and phrasing, he manages to be abstract and not "in your face" with obvious gore lyrics in the way a lot of lesser grindcore acts are, and to me that just makes his lyrics all the more disturbing and dark.

Well, it's kind of like how you loved Korn, but then after being introduced to certain other types of music Korn started to loose it's edge. It was no longer all that impressive in comparison. For me initially Phantom Limb was amazing, but after five or six years I kind of feel like it doesn't quite have the same edge anymore. But Painter of Dead Girls does still have that edge. I don't know about the guitar technique. Maybe there's some really good guitar technique in Phantom Limb, but I think what I love about Painter of Dead Girls and Prowler in the Yard is that they are somehow fiercer. The two things that I immediately notice are that they are rawer and the vocals are crisper.



It's kind of like how the more movies I watch the more great movies get bumped off my top 100, and the more good movies just don't even make the cut anymore and aren't even impressive.

Don't get me wrong, I still like Phantom Limb, but I don't really love it anymore.

How dare you remind me of that Korn debacle!

Anyway, yeah, I think I prefer Prowler and Terrifyer to Phantom, but I like all their work honestly. I haven't listened to Painter much yet, will have to soon.

I think Book Burner might be their worst, even though I still enjoy it.

I mean, to my naive eyes Prowler in the Yard is like... the magnum opus of all grindcore. I agree that it is much rawer and fiercer than some of their later work, and that is something I appreciate about it.

There are so many bands that I like the earlier stuff of, but not so much their newer stuff, or at least their older stuff is better.

One of the reasons why I love Screamo so much is because it's probably the most consistent genre I've ever encountered. I have yet to hear a single Screamo band that I don't like. There is one band, I Would Set Myself on Fire for You, who's first album is a staple that everyone praises, but who's second album is completely weird. For their second album they made every song a different genre. You might appreciate it, but I didn't really like it. It's clearly talented music, it just didn't appeal to me.

Been lonesome two years since she disappeared.
I'm at the park where she was last seen.
A vast green clearing wrapped up in maple trees,
spilling the morning rain from their leaves.
I used to walk here with a girl,
seventeen at the time,
mistress of seventeen smiles sublime.
With flaming locks of red in autumn
and burning locks of orange in the summertime,
we were solemn and awkward that last night together.
She laid by my side staring into starless skies,
black as fallen angel feathers.
I stared into the forest,
pretending not to see the hangmen she was hiding.
In her eyes of serpent green she said there was another.
I refused to believe her.
I'd thought we'd kiss till our tongues tied together.
All my loving memories became scenes of frenzied slaughter.
My hands became cruel talons as they moved to destroy her neck.
Broke like a toy in a careless child's grip,
my tears rained down into dead eyes and splashed upon her lifeless lips.
I put her in the ground like a flower.
Here I am standing in that same spot today,
where my angel's empty shell last laid.
And as my tears began to well up once more
I see a path into the tree line that I'd never seen before.
I follow it down into a ravine,
find a hole in the earth framed in the roots of a birch tree.
Subtle echoes of her voice speaking words I've never heard
but the way she hissed her S’s it just had to be her.
I smell honeysuckle then opium,
two of her signature scents.
I pull aside all the thistles and vines,
and mesmerized I make my descent.
As I crawl further inside the light slowly dies
and the dirt begins to feel like her skin.
I tremble as I drag my fingers down the walls,
caressing her sweet flesh again.
I'm sliding down trying so hard not to fall,
slipping on the blood that's seeping from the walls.
Then suddenly I'm surrounded by a thousand of her eyes,
bathing the tunnel in a strange green light.
The eyes show me pictures like ghostly television screens
all her thrashing final struggles and her ravaged corpse serene.
The tunnel is closing behind me,
pressing me further and further down.
I'm being swallowed by her earth and consumed by her ground.
The end is moving into sight.
I gasp and I scream as I see her lovely mouth five times the size of me,
her lips curl into a grin around her crooked gnashing teeth.
I'm pulverized and devoured in the jaws of a girl seventeen.

Pig Destroyer - Natasha

Yeah dude, those words don't read like lyrics they read like poetry. I can 110% agree with you on that.

Zotis, I haven't gone to a show in 5 or 6 years, the line of work I was in kind of hindered me from being as active as I wanted, and that being said I have a very big problem with poseurs as well, which the scene was becoming full of. Me and a few friends were the first guys in town to really have the Black Metal look and mentality, and with the exception of a few guys older than us(these guys were brutal dude, fun as hell to hang out with), we were basically it for the BM scene.

Most of the city was full of Death Metal and Power Metal kids. Then as we started making friends with more people they started switching over to Bm, next thing you know half the scene are running around trying to be Black Metal, but they lacked the mentality. You can wear all black, bullets, vests, boots, have long hair, wear inverted crosses/Sigil of Baphomet etc but if you don't have the mentality to go along with it I would ridicule the hell out of you and basically curse you out as a lying PoS.

Black Metal is war against religion, humanity and basically life itself "Anti Human, Anti Life", and we had people that treated it like a damned fashion show, not to mention that when my friends started dating, their girlfriends would become "metal" as well, so not only did I have to put up with people I thought were total wads and fakers, but now I had to play nice with stupid ass girls who didn't care about music and only wanted to look hard and be associated as such because of their boyfriends.

In my entire life I have met 3 women who did the work themselves and actually deserved the title and respect bestowed upon them. Dudes would seriously chase "metal" chicks all day and it was a huge joke for me, because I refused to date any of those broads. In fact my one GF was about as non-metal as you can be, and they all hated her and thought she was lame and told me I needed a "metal" girl, but like I said I simply refused on grounds that the ideology meant more to me than some dumb chick who'd likely listen to my BM albums and tell me how she loves them sooo0o0o0o0o0o much without understanding context and meaning behind any of it.

So once this all started happening I couldn't deal with it (especially at shows when girls would hang off us and stuff and try to get in with us, I basically went Lone Wolf again, removed myself from the scene and haven't spoken to many of them in years. I realize I come across as harsh, but like I said before this was the first genre I really fell in love with and to see people who basically took it as serious as a joke try and flaunt their "abundance" of knowledge or their new back patch or whatever. In short it became about the fashion and the women instead of about music and ideology, and that is where any true fan will draw a line in the brimstone.

Also, FYI Punk/Hardcore pits are the best, metal ones are lame shoving and bumping. Circle pits are the ****.

I don't think that's harsh. For me personally all I care about is the music. I just want to see bands live. I don't care about ideologies. Posers are lame but hey, if their money supports bands that I like, then I say thank you to them. I probably look out of place at shows. I don't dress like I'm hardcore or anything, and I do what I want when I get into the music or when I jump into the mosh pit. I think it's lame how people just imitate everyone around them, but I try not to judge them either.

I've been thinking about going to shows again for a while now. I often used to go to shows alone. All this reminiscing makes me really want to go see some bands. I don't really want to do anything reckless anymore. I just want to have a few beers and enjoy the music.

I don't care for what "Screamo"/"Death Metal" I've heard, mainly because I feel what might otherwise be an awesome song is ruined by someone with laryngitis yelling into the microphone.

I think Progenies of the Great Apocalypse by Dimmu Borgir is an awesome song... when the lead isn't ruining it.

I also think Lake Bodom by Children of Bodom is an awesome song... when the lead isn't ruining it. I can't find an instrumental of that one though.

The closest I get to songs with vocals like that is stuff like The Poison by Bullet For My Valentine, Voices by Crown The Empire, and A Nightmare to Remember by Dream Theater (although out of a whole 16 minute song only the last third of it really turns on the growl).

__________________
Movie Reviews | Anime Reviews
Top 100 Action Movie Countdown (2015): List | Thread
"Well, at least your intentions behind the UTTERLY DEVASTATING FAULTS IN YOUR LOGIC are good." - Captain Steel

I realized I enjoy being a lone wolf better than anything, because then I don't have to worry about other people and their problems. It's always been strange for me, because I always had friends but we never really shared the same interests. Once the internet was made available to me I started forging friendships with people who shared the same interests as me because I could find communities dedicated to the weird/different **** I liked, and I was immersed into worlds of music, movies, literature, gore, occultism and other things that poked my teenage brain( I think I was 14) which helped me grow into who I am today, I started posting here(11+ years ago with a 9 year hiatus lol) when my favorite movie was Full Metal Jacket, and I was into a lot of punk (UK82, '77) and doom/drone/noise. A few of those albums I posted in Swans Vinyl thread I have I've had since I started here/shortly after.

It wasn't until I started mid High School that I really started to listen to a lot of Black Metal, I liked and listened to Burzum, Emperor, Mayhem, Immortal, Darkthrone, Bathory etc all the basics, but after I found a particular metal forum on the old muchmusic(Canadian MTV) LOUD/PunkShow board, there were some good dudes who helped a young'un out with a lot of solid recs, and so I started my journey through the cold and desolate landscape of Black Metal. After a while one of the guys from the board created a site called Ubermetal which was an e-zine/forums kind of site and he recruited me to the staff when I believe I was 16 and I would send him reviews of metal/punk albums and rants about things that bothered me about my local and international scene(this site/ezine was based in ontario, the staff lived all over Canada). Then I ended up joining another site called Nexopia when Ubermetal started to fizzle out.

Nexopia had user created forums and stuff, so I joined their largest metal forum, MetaltotheMasses and within a week my extensive knowledge had landed me a spot on the moderator team, soon I became real life friends with the others and we'd have awesome discussions with people all across a couple provinces, and soon our group grew and bands were formed and next thing you know the scene really started to flourish with all this new blood, and having this forum as our meeting/planning/discussion place worked awesome for us. I actually met some of the coolest people I've ever met through meeting them online first. We had friends in other cities we'd see every month or so because we'd all be going back and forth between cities for shows and parties and stuff. Through this forum we met local promoters who in turn would add our bands to the shows and have us open for more established acts. We even got to choose who they would try and bring in for shows, and would try and raise funds to see some of our favorite bands (I've seen some really, really awesome ****ing bands).


But then the situation deteriorated to the state I described previously and all ended up in sour feelings and what I felt were forced friendships. And between the drugs/alcohol/women it really occurred to me that I didn't need to dress the part and put up with people I didn't care about to be Black Metal and listen too it, for instance right now I'm rocking a flat brim Celtics hat, Nike Basketball Shorts and a Stompdown Killaz Hoodie(Graffiti/Hip-Hop Crew) Because seriously dude

Nike Basketball shorts are comfier than Combat fatigues/black jeans
Baggy Hoodies are comfier than a 15 pound vest and bullets
Air Jordans are comfier than Canadian standard issue combat boots(Steel toe and shank in the foot)

Aesthetics don't mean much to me anymore, I needn't use a rough exterior to frighten and stir the pot. All one needs to do is attempt to engage me in conversation to find out whether I am agreeable to them or not, I try to be on that "Don't mess with me, I won't mess with you, lets just chill" stuff, but evidently it doesn't always work out to intended effect.

/Ramble

Might not be the thread for you bud, just sayin'.

Not metal enough?

I appreciate the sentiment of what you've shared with me AboveTheClouds. Thanks for that. Those experiences obviously taught you a lot.



Even when I was younger and I went to Post-Hardcore shows I never tried to be a part of the scene. Only a few of my friends listened to the same kind of music, but I mostly assosiated with people based on reasons other than music. And when I was in my mid-twenties and got more into music, I didn't have a single friend I could actually talk to in much depth about music. Even though all this reminiscing makes me want to go to some shows, I have no intention of getting into any particular music scene or identifying myself with any particular genre. I certainly wouldn't start trying to act Black Metal. I never really cared about that kind of thing when I was younger, and I certainly don't now. I have a feeling if I went to a Black Metal show a lot of people would look at me like I don't belong and wonder what I'm doing there. But I really wouldn't care. Anyway, I'm not saying, "Come to a show with me." I'm just saying this talk makes me feel that way.

Dimmu, CoB and Dream Theater are metal, but pretty entry level stuff. The other stuff you mentioned is not metal, I will resurrect an old term here, these bands are "Mallcore". In my day you'd see all the kids who fancied themselves "hardcore" and "misunderstood" listening to this stuff, wearing their terrible band shirts, heavy makeup and horribad teased hair hanging out in the cafeteria at school or the mall food court. Aside from being super cookie-cutter in fashion sense and musical style, their just plain boring.

As you might have realized by now this thread has been mostly about extreme metal/punk/hardcore, not that type of stuff. Another reason I mentioned was because of your comments on the vocals, well most of the bands we've actually discussed would not be to your liking, but feel free to check some of them out and see if you like any of it, and if you want any recommendations, ask away this is the best thread for it.

Zotis, I'm gonna partially hi-hack this thread at times to post vids and links to awesome stuff our small community of extreme music enthusiasts would appreciate.

Oh come on Zotis, we could have a few brews and mash some dumb bastard into the guard rail, it'd be lovely!

I refrain from labelling myself anymore, that's part of why I don't dress that way anymore. My listening habits these days are basically Black/Doom Metal, Grind/Porno/Gore, Crust/D-Beat/PV, Hip Hop, R&B(Gladys Knight all the way to Boys II Men) Hardcore Techno(Hixxy, Whizzkid, Sharkey) and a whack of celtic folk as well. It's all good man, this thread has made me mad nostalgic.

One of my favourite bands of all time is Katatonia, they hail from Sweden and play some pretty depressing stuff. Their first few releases were in the genre of Death Doom (Death metal vocals with Doom Metal musical/lyrical sensibilities) At one point even having the vocalist of fellow Swedish Death Metal(At that point) band Opeth Mikael Akerfeldt take over vocal duties for their album Brave Murder Day. Afterwards their style started to drift towards a more melodic sound, incorporating a more finely tuned recording technique and their vocalist Jonas Renske to return on clean vocals. I'll post a few videos of different sounds the band had.


This is their more melodic stuff with Jonas Renske clean vocals.


Mikael Akerfeldt from Opeth did vocals on this track/album called Brave Murder Day and the EP Sounds of Decay,


Original sound from the first EP and Full Length featuring the real vocalist Jonas Renske


And this is kind of like a rarer more gothy inspired track only available on a split with Primordial until their first best of came out. This track is called Scarlet Heavens and has Jonas Renske on vocals.

Anything they released after Viva Emptiness is a little meh for me, but some of you guys might like it.

That does sound like fun. Well if you actually do want to go to a show with me sometime and have a few beers, I certainly won't say no. Someone would have to really tick me off for me to get violent though. I wouldn't just hurt someone for fun because they looked like a poser. I'm not the kind of person who likes to get into fights or cause mayhem. I certainly wouldn't mess with a big guy, but if someone was being a douche and really ticked me off, I just might do something rash, lol. I don't even know how I feel about mosh pits anymore. 5-6 years ago I was at the point where I would dance in my own style; sometimes in the mosh pit, or sometimes not. I did enjoy making people who avoided the mosh pit feel uncomfortable by bumping into them when I was dancing. And I had no problem pushing through the crowd. It just depends on how much I get into the music though really, and how I feel at the time. I noticed at least someone stare at me every time I danced because most of them would either just head bang or do this kind of thrash about punching the air thing you commonly see people do (at Hardcore shows anyway). You know how it is, people just immitate everyone around them, and anyone doing something different is "weird." But I don't care what anyone else thinks. In fact I kind of like it when other people feel uncomfortable around me, like those kids who's parents drop them off and they just stand in the crowd and get offended if someone pushes them. I really want to go to some shows now and see how I feel. I depserately want to go to a Screamo show, and that one Powerviolence/Grindcore band I went to makes me want to check out some more of those. There's a bunch of genres I'd like to experience live.


I went to an Iron Maiden concert several years ago because a friend of mine really wanted to go. I don't like Iron Maiden, but I was willing to go for my friend's sake. Dream Theater was there too, they were a bit boring, but okay I guess. Anyway, man there were so many show noobs at that concert. We pushed our way through the massive crowd to get closer where the crowd would be more interesting, and at one point a huge jock-type grabbed my backpack and dragged me 3 people back. He said, "You're not getting in front of us pal." So we just went around him, and a good 30-40 meters in front of him. The crowd was massive.


Oh, I just remembered another nostalgic moment. It was at an Underoath/Norma Jean concert in a small bar. I was hanging out with these two chicks I had just met and we were right at the front where everyone was crammed like a massive sandwhich. This short chick in all black with black hair was pretty aggressively trying to force her way in front of me and force me back. Well, I'd been at the front the entire time, so I wasn't taking any of that from a 5'4" teenager. So I lifted my foot up and wedged it in front of her, and when the crowd surged towards her I pushed back so that I had some leway. Then when the crowd surged the othe way that leway made a gap for me to slip in front of her and I just hoisted her completely behind me. She was really pissed and dug her elbow into my back a couple times, but there was nothing she could do at that point. The crowd was too thick for her to get back. Normally I wouldn't do that kind of thing, especially to a girl. But it was just the fact that she was so agressive and nasty, and trying to push me back when I was there before her. I wasn't going to let her get away with it just because she was a chick.


Good times.