Better Call Saul...whatcha think?

Tools    





Registered User
Oh yeah Mark was really nice. He didnt love BCS but he wasnt the 'I hate this and anyone who likes it is a moron' type.

He hated me because I laughed at him when he told some woman she was pretentious for saying BB was like a nice cold beer but BCS was like fine wine. I jokingly said only pre tent see us people cll others pretentious and said I ws going off to make Pimms and ribbon sandwiches to take to the polo. He somehow got it into his head I was British, and he decided spliff and I were having an affair then he wouldnt stop following us around. He was a nutcase.
We're nut magnets, Dani.



Registered User
Not sure if you saw this, but a few pages back I posted a tweet from someone suggesting that the writers, with Kim and Chuck, basically just took Jesse and Skyler and flipped the genders. That kinda blew my mind. It's an admitted oversimplification, but the general dynamic of Jesse/Kim being decent people who enable the protagonist and get sucked into their wrong doing over time, and Chuck/Skyler being the family member who impedes them, seems pretty spot on.
I...actually agree with that assessment. Yes, that makes sense. The difference, though, between Kim and Jesse is that Jess had a LOT more hatred and resentment for Walt than Kim does for Jimmy and I could never see her growing to hate Jimmy as much as Jesse did Walt. But I get it--the concept is definitely similar--just MUCH MUCH less extreme.

I've always been of the mind that Nacho is a bit of the "Jesse" of this series as well:

-He's not cut out for the criminal world and is in over his head

-He keeps making mistakes that make his parent disappointed with him in life

-He has a respect for Mike and Mike seems to respect him on some level as well.

I've always stated that I could see Nacho becoming the first of Mike's surrogate "sons". In Breaking Bad Mike had a close relationship with several men on his crew: Victor, Chris and Jesse. He cared about them almost like a father "looking out for his boys" and mourned them when they died (in his own Mike way, that is). I could see Nacho and Mike having a similar relationship.

We also know for a fact in Breaking Bad that Mike cared about Victor because of the way he mourned him after his murder. I'd love to see more of that relationship built upon in BCS.

This is perfectly in line with Mike's character: he lost a son and finds these surrogate "sons" to try to fill the void left by his own deceased son. His closest surrogate "son" was Jesse.



Registered User
Cool, I will start a thread in the next couple of days. I am planning on just two episodes a week. That's a pace I know I can keep and will allow anyone to join in pretty easily. Gets it watched long before next season of Saul as well.
Let me know when you do, please. I'm eager to discuss Breaking Bad. I know these episodes by heart.

Plus, I enjoy our debates. We don't always agree but you and I have always had a respectful common ground we've met on and I like that.



Registered User
That may be entirely too slow. Especially for a rewatch (or, in some cases, a re-re-re-watch). I'll try to scribble down some stuff though so that even if I race ahead I'll have something to say most of the time.

Knowing me, I'll have something to say just every several episodes, though.
Definitely too slow for me. Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul episodes on binge watch are like Pringles: can't have just one...or two...or three...



Registered User
@Elessar might be interested in this. She hasnt seen BrBa yet.
Yes, we should definitely get her caught up--she's intelligent and I love her posts on BCS.

What's great about BCS is that it only serves to enrich Breaking Bad and let me tell you--rewatching many of those Mike and Saul scenes really adds new dimensions to things--especially the Mike and Victor scenes and Mike and Gus scenes. We now know more about their past and the respect that Mike and Gus share for each other.



Registered User
Not reading any of this thread....yet.
Almost finished Breaking Bad then plan on Better Call Saul straight after.
Cant wait.
Good deal. Get back to us when you do--we could use more members of this fan discussion.



Let me know when you do, please. I'm eager to discuss Breaking Bad. I know these episodes by heart.

Plus, I enjoy our debates. We don't always agree but you and I have always had a respectful common ground we've met on and I like that.
I watched the pilot last night. Busy couple days but I will get it up tomorrow night at the latest. Also, I agree.
__________________
Letterboxd



Hahaha and we met through you ruffling my feathers over Batman.
Yeah, it must have been all those "lovely" things I had to say about the DCCU. You know how much I "love" the DCCU.
Yup! You liked me because I was a good sport about it. Probably also because of my pearl clutching at any mention of batboobs.



Registered User
Yup! You liked me because I was a good sport about it. Probably also because of my pearl clutching at any mention of batboobs.
LOL! Well, you know not to take criticisms of a product to heart. You know the difference between fandom and zealots.

Thanks for being a good sport! You could have handled it differently--you could have been like....well....THIS:




Registered User
I watched the pilot last night. Busy couple days but I will get it up tomorrow night at the latest. Also, I agree.
Great!

When was the last time you watched that pilot? Absolutely brilliant, wasn't it?



Cool, I will start a thread in the next couple of days. I am planning on just two episodes a week. That's a pace I know I can keep and will allow anyone to join in pretty easily. Gets it watched long before next season of Saul as well.
@Dani8 : yeah, that's right, I would like to join
I started watching BrB for 5 mins last week and the first image was very impressive (a floating pant flying over the sky ). Then someone called me and I was off.
I would continue now, last week was just so crazily busy for me.
__________________
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta
!



You can't win an argument just by being right!
@Dani8 : yeah, that's right, I would like to join
I started watching BrB for 5 mins last week and the first image was very impressive (a floating pant flying over the sky ). I would continue now, last week was just so crazily busy for me.
The pilot is insane. I remember asking the guy who recommended it to me straight after I finished watching it if the pace calms down because I thought it was giving me heart palpitations.

@dteam , who was Chris? And do you really think he mourned Victor? I got the impression he was simply in shock realising the extent Gus would go to in order to intimidate Walt and Jesse. I do agree about Jesse and Nacho being his surrogate sons, though, and maybe even Jimmy. Squat Cobbler dork had his chance but blew it. I'd like to see skinny Huell get adopted by grandpa Mike. Speaking of which, he looks amazing.



LOL! Well, you know not to take criticisms of a product to heart. You know the difference between fandom and zealots.

Thanks for being a good sport! You could have handled it differently--you could have been like....well....THIS:

Any time! Now we are united in Chuck major side-eye!



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Oh I found him. I dont remember those two having much of a relationship. Will catch up in the rewatch.



Registered User
The pilot is insane. I remember asking the guy who recommended it to me straight after I finished watching it if the pace calms down because I thought it was giving me heart palpitations.

@dteam , who was Chris? And do you really think he mourned Victor? I got the impression he was simply in shock realising the extent Gus would go to in order to intimidate Walt and Jesse. I do agree about Jesse and Nacho being his surrogate sons, though, and maybe even Jimmy. Squat Cobbler dork had his chance but blew it. I'd like to see skinny Huell get adopted by grandpa Mike. Speaking of which, he looks amazing.
Chris was the guy who shot and killed Chow as part of Lydia's request to kill the 11 witnesses on the list. Mike shot him after subduing him. He looked quite sad after he had done so.

And yes, I do believe he mourned Victor. You have to really study Mike's expressions, as you know. They're so subtle and Banks plays them to perfection. Here are the clues:

-During the moment when Mike asks Victor if he was seen by the tenants at Gale's murder scene, Victor looks down in shame and can't face Mike. He's just like a boy who's facing his father and knowing he's done wrong. Mike's reactions are like those of both a concerned boss and father figure, in my opinion.

-When Walt and Jesse are trying to get Victor's body into the barrel, Mike's face goes through a series of emotions and one of them, for a brief moment appears to be the slightest moment of sadness at seeing his former associate being handled that way.

-The blood wiping in the restaurant. You are correct--some of that reaction is shock. Quite clearly. But, if you examine his facial expressions, you might also glimpse some sadness--especially the way he cups his hands, lowers his head and closes his eyes.

-Mike's visible anger with Jesse in the car when Jesse says: "I'm the guy, right?" and Mike pulls over, angry and shouts: "YOU are not the guy! I HAD a guy but now I don't--YOU are not the guy! You're not capable of BEING the guy!" To me, that was a mixture of anger over Jesse's actions leading to Victor's death as well as regret over not having "a guy" anymore.

It's open to interpretation but I DO believe that Mike was mourning Victor to some extent.

Same deal with that guy (can't remember his name) who had his head blown off by the sniper. When they were wheeling his body into the lab, Walt was asking: "What did this guy do? What did this poor man do to p!ss off Gus?" and Mike became angry and said: "You shut your mouth. You shut your mouth or I'll shut it for you. I don't want you talking to ME or JESSE." To me, that was a mixture of anger, frustration with Walt and Mike trying to handle the disposal of his associate with respect.

Mike also cared about Chow. Since Chow was closer to Mike's age, we know he's not a "son" in Mike's eyes--just an associate he cared for. In regards to Chris and Chow, Mike said to Lydia: "Two good men are dead because of you."

In an earlier scene, Mike told Lydia: "I handpicked all my guys and vetted them with great care. They are MY guys."

We know Mike--he's not very trusting of people and those he DOES trust he cares for. I'm inclined to believe that Mike cared for most of his crew. This man was a former cop and brought that mentality to his crew: "You care for your own". Cops often think of their units as a family--I'm sure he considered his crew something similar. They were all on a first name basis and Mike went through great lengths to take care of them after they were imprisoned.

Again, it's open to interpretation but I believe that Mike had a few surrogate "sons" as well as friends in that group. Otherwise, he could have just as easily let Lydia kill them.

Jimmy as one of his "sons"? Hmmmm...maybe you're onto something there. He never technically hurt him--even in Breaking Bad. He threatened him in BB, sure, when he said: "Saul, don't make me beat you till your legs don't work" but he never did. He was quite uncharacteristically tolerant around Jimmy. Thanks for the theory--I hadn't considered that but maybe you're right.

I noticed that scene this season where Jimmy says: "Who's got your back? Me, that's who." When Jimmy left, Mike briefly looked at him through his mirror with (what I thought to be) almost a fleeting look of mild pity.

That's Mike--a quiet man with a short temper who is surprisingly caring of other people. I guess Gilligan wanted Mike to be a big old softy underneath that rough exterior. Banks sells it well, too.



Registered User
Any time! Now we are united in Chuck major side-eye!
I wonder if we share any OTHER character hatred?



Registered User
Oh I found him. I dont remember those two having much of a relationship. Will catch up in the rewatch.
Oh, well, we didn't see much of their relationship but it's implied in that scene that he knew Chris well. Chris had the same reaction toward Mike that Victor did: that head-lowering shame like a boy does in the face of his father he's let down.

Just my opinion--I could be wrong and can't find any proof anywhere regarding that but one thing is clear: every single member of the crew look up to/respect Mike.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
I totally agree that everyone respects Mike.

Yep definitely needing a rewatch. I thought the look on his face when they were putting Vic in the barrel was at how inept those two were. I like your theory better.