What are some of your favourite Film Noir?

Well I just feel Night of the Hunter is much more of a horror movie than a film noir. I feel it's in the same genre as something like Misery (1990), or Don't Breathe (2016).

In Film Noir, the genre typically has villains that are either a femme fatale of sexual nature, or the mafia, or both. Night of the Hunter has neither.

Same with Blade Runner. Even though it has film noir lighting, the villains being freedom fighting extremist types, takes away from the film noir genre, since a lot of the examples from the 40s and 50s, have either a femme fatale or mafia type villain.

Would you not say though that Rachael is a kind of femme fatale in the sense that she's dangerous without actually realizing it? Pris knows what she is but I think she becomes an active threat as soon as Roy joins her at J. F. Sebastian's.

Well to me a femme fatale is someone who manipulates men into doing bad things, and uses that as a weapon, and Racheal doesn't do any of that. In fact she acts like a naive school girl the whole time, and Decard is in control a lot of the time it seems. I think a femme fatale has to be villainous in order to be a femme fatale, as Rachael only killed one guy in trying to save Decard's life.

I forgot about Pris, so I guess you could say she is one, I just forgot about her.

I agree.

Rachael is a classic example of a noir femme fatale. She lures Deckard away from his job and causes him to go on the run. Even though it's not clear that Deckard is doomed by this decision that comes for his love for Rachael, he could be hunted and killed himself. Yes Blade Runner is a neo noir.

I don't agree with that though, cause Decard is the one who decided to gun on the run and suggested it to Rachael at the end. So I felt it was totally his decision and he wasn't roped into anything.

Yes, it just occurred to me that no matter how innocent Rachael is the mere fact of her being a replicant is perilous.

She certainly fits the classic definition more.

Actually we've also forgotten Zhora haven't we? I think she fits the bill even more than Pris.

Yeah, that was really my line of thinking.

It's hard to say about Zhora, whether she was a femme fatale or not, or just a fugitive trying to survive, nothing more. She only has the one scene, so I cannot tell her true intentions from just that.

That's very true. I agree.

Sorry I meant 'go on the run', and not 'gun on the run'

Well she's cunning and uses sex to her advantage, and she looks to be the most physically deadly replicant apart from Roy. With Rachael and Pris there is that naive quality that is quite different.

But when Zhora use sex to her advantage, I cannot remember. All I remember is Decard finding her, and she knocks him down and runs away, like a desperate fugitive trying to survive more than someone using sex as a manipulation weapon.

Regardless of the femme fatale issue (Rachel does play that part, but regardless....), Blade Runner is absolutely a neo-noir. Not all film noirs have a femme fatale, or at least one in a traditional sense.

For some less easily classified film noirs, check out The Set-Up, The Sweet Smell of Success, Pickup on South Street, and Sunset Boulevard. All great movies no matter what your notions of film noir are.

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But I don't see how Blade Runner counts as noir, cause the villains are freedom fighter extremists, where as noir always seems to have mafia villains, or femme fatales, or both. BR has neither, so how is it noir?

Ironpony, how do you view math? Are you good at it, and do you like it?

Well I guess Pris counts as femme fatale, but I won't count Racheal as one since she is doing any femme fatale like things, at least not intentionally. Zhora is just in one scene, so not sure if that is enough to make it a film noir.

But as a femme fatale, Pris feels different to me as most femme fatales in film noir, use sex as a weapon more, and they are always doing it for money, where as Pris is a freedom fighter, which feels very different than the film noir genre, which is typically a money based crime genre.

Zhora is not a femme fatale in any way at all. Pris is not a femme fatale. She doesn't even meet the protagonist until they fight each other. Rachel is playing the role of the femme fatale. That character may not be checking off every box for what constitutes a femme fatale, but she checks off enough. And as I've said: a film noir does NOT require a femme fatale. Or that the femme fatale must be as obvious as Barbara Stanwych's character in Double Indemnity.

And where does it say a "bad guy" must be motivated by monetary greed in a film noir? Ironpony, you seriously need to watch a lot more film noir before declaring Blade Runner is not a neo-noir.

Okay thanks. I'm just going by other noirs where the villains are motivated by monetary greed. But how is it that Racheal is a femme fatale exactly? She doesn't do anything dangerous or manipulative. Decard falls for her on his own, but she didn't ask him to fall, nor was it intention to get him to, I don't think.

Where'd the thread go?

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