Higher values and incredible artistry in how you pick top films?

If I asked you to give me your TOP 20 films of all time, how would you pick them? Of course, you could just list the first 20 great films that come to your head. But let's assume I'm giving you more time to create a list of films that are REALLY your favorites. How do you approach this?

What I noticed with some people's favorite movies is that those movies hold/espouse no higher values whatsoever. And no, what I mean by that is NOT that they hold no values *I* hold in high esteem. Rather, they hold no higher values at all, or the values are too obscured and not pronounced enough anyway. For example, I'm not surprised a self-declared Communist would put a movie igniting a revolution in their top 20, as it talks to their "higher values". And this makes sense even if I disagree with those values. But when people place a film that doesn't even pretend to hold any moral high ground, then I ask, why not? Isn't this a good factor to measure what really stands out?

I imagine incredible artistry is somewhat of a deciding factor, too. Sure, if the film is personal, artistry means little, but most of the time, personal movies are about higher values, or what you perceive to be higher values anyway. So, it's usually either the higher principles the film espouses (or the film being personal to you; these two are often interchangeable) or the very high artistic value of the film. The high artistic value might be something like you saying "I didn't know it was even possible for films to do this!" or just you not being able to say anything, being shattered by the sheer master class of the film.

Of course, there are more categories, like "I love this film! I could watch it over and over again!" - but this doesn't ring right. If you're really sincere, most of these high rewatchability films are not really anywhere near the top 20 of all time.

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Look, I'm not judging you - after all, I'm posting here myself, but maybe, just maybe, if you spent less time here and more time watching films, maybe, and I stress, maybe your taste would be of some value. Just a thought, ya know.

I am very skeptical of any claim that the best works of art in any given medium should also express some sort of "higher" (whatever that means) moral values, but I am sympathetic to your second point.

Is part of this thread missing? Or are you talking to yourself?

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I’m here only on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays. That’s why I’m here now.

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I was just responding to the two main points in the initial post.

Only normies pick their top movies for a list...I don't relate to movies like most people do. I've been asked many times what's my favorite movie and the answer is, 'I don't have favorite movies'. I don't think of movies like most do and I don't watch for the reason most people seem to. I could name a bunch of movies I've seen that I think are great for one reason or another, but as far as call them 'favorites', nah I can't do that.

*My top 10 movie profile doesn't represent my 'Top 10' favorite movies.

That's what you get for blocking me

What? Did Stirchley post something in this thread?

She posted a love letter for you. Too bad you missed it. Coulda been a beautiful romance.

My argument is not that it should but that movies that do have a proclivity to speak to us stronger and have a greater overall value.

Oh, in that case I misunderstood. The tendency you point out tends to be fairly common, perhaps only rivaled by films people enjoy out of the sheer fun they have in watching them (though in that case, there might be some subliminal value-agreement going on in the background).

A favorite list is probably a window into or representation of that person's psyche. The Godfather made an appearance but Re-Animator did as well when I compiled my recent personal 100. In other words i can be formal and serious but I also like to party.

This is a good point. I'd rather not stay alone in a room with a person who has Triumph of the Will, Slaughtered Vomit Dolls and Paddington 2 in their top 10.

Are you kidding? This person sounds like they would be best friend-material for me.

Salo as #1 favorite film checks out.

Darn right.

Me either.

Art and Philosophy do not need to be linked. My favorite painting of all time is Starry Night, but it doesn't contain any higher ideals or philosophy. But it's beautiful, extremely complex, and makes me feel deep things. To me, this is the purpose of art, which includes movies.


On a purely pragmatic level, trying to include a complex moral message in a movie is almost always going to make the film clunkier, and tying it to a political movement is the easiest way to make a film seem dated.

The interesting thing about film/art generally, though, is that it can express simple moral messages much better than any/most philosophy---basic values such as empathy, loyalty, freedom, etc.

Very true. But even a great movie can be set back by 'trying too hard' to push a message.


"M" (1931) is a fantastic film, and arguably the first great talkie. Then there's the final scene. Grieving women sit and clearly state one of the film's main messages, more or less directly to the camera. Ugh. If they'd only ended the film one scene earlier, it would've instead been perfect.

You can pick your nose, you can pick your friends but you shouldn't pick your friends movies.