Citizen Rules...Cinemaesque Chat-n-Review

Yeah I have to disagree with Citizen about this one. The film, to me, was always just about appropriate skepticism and analyzing situations properly. I don't know how anyone can argue that the jury aside from Fonda, in the beginning, was too quick to judge the guilt of the kid. Not sure why it's being considered PC to simply question the validity of the quick, thoughtless decision, but okay.

To Rules, you are really stepping in it this month, buddy.
First, comparing the comic genius of Airplane! to Adam Sandler films...
And now giving 12 Angry Men a 2.5?
You better be careful and start getting your head back in the game!

Thanks for the information on who brought up the glasses question....Yes, to the sentence in bold.
I can see how the movie during the Eisenhower period did more good than harm.

My main objection is: most of the 11 jurors who want a guilty verdict are shown as caricatures and thus the film uses their personality traits, to defeat or question their views of the trial...when their views should have been defeated/or questioned from a factual/logical stand point.

And yes I just read what Captain wrote about the man forced to do jury duty who was in a hurry. It's interesting to know those things do happen.

I wish the film would have toned down the overly colorful caricatures in the film, then I might have bought it more.

But most of them are unbelievably (to me) bigoted, boobs, careless, etc. The only saving grace among the main ones is E.G. Marshall.

The worst stereo types: the juror who secretly is motivated for a guilty verdict because he has his own problems with his son. I believe that was Lee J Cobb?...

And the worst was the salesmen who didn't care what happened, but wanted the deliberation over because he had tickets to a ball game. That would have been grounds for a mistrial as would Fonda's illegally tampering with evidence (not sure if that's the correct term?) when he brings in a knife.

I went into this movie having seen it some years ago and thinking it was a near Top 10 for me. But the script is sloppy, it's over sentimentalized and the writer makes his points by painting most of the 11 as nutcases.

Hey! I just realized something, I'm like Henry Fonda standing up to entire room of jurors...Which I think is kind of cool...

The jury seemed like a reasonable cross-section of male humanity to me.

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That's what I would have loved to see, but in my mind the film didn't really go there in the way I wanted it to. I think the film is a cheat. It goes directly to our human nature of wanting to root for the underdog and wanting justices, but it makes its points by ad hominem attacks via the caricaturization of some of the 11 jurors.


I'd say based on the evidence the accused was guilty. And in the end they let a murder go free. Of course it's just fictional movie and not based on a real case events.

I think your criticisms are thoughtful ones, but I do disagree with them. Thanks for the response though.

Thanks Swan...And visit more often for a chat....it gets lonely in here sometimes! I'm good with different view points We're all just fans of cinema, each with our own individuality and experiences that color our views.

Don't start with the sexism bullsh1t here! I get enough SJW crap on Twitter and YouTube.

Director: William Wyler
Cast: Kirk Douglas, Eleanor Parker, William Bendix
Genre: Film Noir

About: A hard nosed detective (Kirk Douglas) who's been suspended in the past for police brutality, finds himself on a case so disturbing that his negative emotions spill over to his wife (Elanor Parker). During a one day period at the police precinct room we see a wide range of assorted characters and criminals, each with their own stories.

Review: Kirk Douglas was known for intense acting such as in 1951's Ace in the Hole. Here in Detective Story he's even more intense and more forceful. Thanks to a well crafted back story, his character has real motivation to act in such a zealot manner. IMO this is Kirk Douglas' best performance...and he gave a lot of great performances!


Elanor Parker who's first big role was in Caged (1950), gives a more well rounded performance as the wife of a out of control cop, who's dealing with a marriage that is falling apart. She's able to get her acting chops into the part and as much as I liked her in Caged, I like her performance here better.

The story construction of Detective Story is unique for a film noir and works well. We get the main story of Kirk Douglas as he pursues a suspect and is willing to do anything to get his man. That might be enough for most films but here, every action he takes, causes a secondary story-line to unfold with his wife. That's clever. Finally there's even a third subplot running through the story about a young teen accused of a petty crime. All of this is wrapped up in a birds eye view of the inner workings of a police precinct.

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The Hitch-Hiker is a good movie because we all know the dangers of hitchhiking, and this puts us right in the middle of that danger. But if I remember correctly, the two fishermen picked up the hitchhiker in their own car. He didn't pick them up in a stolen car.

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OPEN FLOOR.

I'm shocked (and saddened) by your rating of 12 Angry Men. I know that you said that you didn't like it as much now as you did when you first saw it, but I didn't expect that low of a rating.

IMO, it's a brilliant movie. Watching Henry Fonda as the lone juror holdout trying to turn each other juror is mesmerizing.


As Capt. said, all he needed was "reasonable doubt", not "beyond the shadow of a doubt". His arguments were valid to create that reasonable doubt.


You don't get out much, do you? That sounds like a typical crowd here in New York.


Yeah, but the difference is that he won, and I don't think you're going to sway a lot of votes here.


Rules, have you seen My Cousin Vinny? The courtroom scenes in that movie are kind of similar to this, but instead of swaying the jury, Joe Pesci (as the lawyer) tries to negate the evidence and witnesses one by one. It's not exactly the same, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on that trial.

I like what you wrote there...it's true too!

Whoops....I have the worlds worst memory, I swear

No, not yet. I know you really liked My Cousin Vinny, I want to see it one of these days. Maybe we'll do another comedy Hof and you'll nominate it? It looks like a fun movie.

I nominated My Cousin Vinny for the last Comedy HoF, and you saw how well that worked out.

Oh, I remember the comedy Hof, but forgot that was your nom.

Yeah, it was, and after seeing what some people here consider comedy, I doubt I would join another Comedy HoF.

(BTW, that's why I voted for sci-fi over comedy for the next MoFo countdown. I expect a lot of horror/sci-fi to show up on the list, but that's better than what could show up in a comedy countdown.)

Have to disagree with you re: 12 Angry Men - I think it's a brilliantly written and directed film but to each their own viewpoint. Detective Story sounds interesting and pretty sure I've never seen that one.

Chyp, have you seen 12 Angry Men (1997)? It was made for TV, but has a high IMDB rating. Jack Lemon played the Henry Fonda role. I haven't seen it, but I think I will seek it out and see if it's more to my liking.

I never have and tbh don't think I ever want to as I hold the original in such high regard I just can't imagine it would do anything but pale by comparison.

Yeah I can see that. Most of the time, when we watch and love the original a remake seems unnecessary. I most always hold to that opinion myself. But a couple people told me the 1997 version was pretty good and my curiosity has gotten the best of me....So if you or anyone is interested, I will review it in a few days.

Some sort of comparative review would certainly be interesting but from what you said about the original I can't see any reason why you'd feel too much differently about the tv version really.