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Have you already seen BlacKKKlansmen?

BTW, not sure I agree 100% with the idea that a movie with an amoral POV is automatically negated from being good. I think it has tougher road to hoe for me but I definitely like movies by directors whose morals donít lineup with mine. Lots of factors in my enjoyment of a film and l donít equate enjoyment with endorsement.
Yes I seen it last night. I'm thinking about what to say in my review.



Yes I seen it last night. I'm thinking about what to say in my review.
Donít hold back, very interested, because I didnít find it racist at all



BlacKKKlansman
(Spike Lee 2018)


"I'd rather see a Brother Kill a Cop than Kill a Vietnamese. At least he's got a reason for Killing The Cop. When you Kill a Vietnamese you're a Hero and you don't even know why you Killed him. At least if you Kill a Cop you're doing it for a reason." From BlacKKKlansman

Nothing like throwing gasoline into a fire, eh Spike? We've already had too much hate and mistrust from both sides of cops vs black. Of course it's not actually 'vs', but it's gotten framed that way by our money hungry media who adds to the tensions which then results in further loss of lives...and makes cops 'vs' blacks seem like a reality.

I cringed at the above quoted dialogue from the black student rally in BlacKKKlansman...Everything else the rally speaker talked about was positive and uplifting for the black students in attendance. But enough f***ing talk already about killing white cops...Enough f***ing talk already about killing any cops period, that's a stupid thing to put into a film today. The rally speech was framed in the movie to be noble and right, as the black speaker was a protagonist and yet this hero is exonerating cop killing, way to go Spike... Yes we also get extreme hate speech by the KKK members who plan on killing black people, but we the audience know the KKK are the evil ones and are ape s*** bunkers to boot...They are clearly the antagonist.

In Do the Right Thing, Spike Lee found a balance and showed members of all races being both bigoted a$$holes AND showed other members of all races being nice people. I respect that film. As much as I enjoyed watching 95% of BlacKKKlansman I can't respect the bombastic, one sided injection of current political/social problems into the movie. Reflecting those problems in his film=good...but soapboxing those problems in his film=bad.

Spike Lee does have an excellent eye for framing and camera work and his editing and the flow of the movie was near perfect. John David Washington was perfect in the role and Adam Driver was OK. The overall story was perfect for film and I enjoyed all of that.

But F*** the last couple minutes of the film, I do NOT need to see people being ran over by a car and dying for real. I know about that incident and it's horrendous! but I don't need to watch it after seeing the movie.
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I will respond to the rally after I see the movie again as I havenít seen it since the theater.

Definitely disagree about the ending which is one of the most sobering and effective I have seen. Adds teeth to what can be a pretty damn lighthearted film about very serious topics.

How would you cover cop shootings in the media?



I will respond to the rally after I see the movie again as I havenít seen it since the theater.

Definitely disagree about the ending which is one of the most sobering and effective I have seen. Adds teeth to what can be a pretty damn lighthearted film about very serious topics.

How would you cover cop shootings in the media?
We're not really suppose to talk about that anymore here, unless it's in a movie.



Yes we also get extreme hate speech by the KKK members who plan on killing black people, but we the audience know the KKK are the evil ones and are ape s*** bunkers to boot...They are clearly the antagonist.
You'd think that would be obvious, but there are plenty of people (like those at the Charlottesville rally) who share the KKK's beliefs. They're clearly not going to watch this film, but given the rise in white supremacy, particularly in the US over the last few years, the depressing reality is that you can't assume the audience is going to inherently see the KKK as the bad guys.

I also don't appreciate the anti-cop rhetoric, though I think that part of the speech was meant to be hyperbole. However, it does remind me of something I was going to bring up but forgot: the black community is not depicted as being free from problematic points of view themselves. Obviously that's not delved into, but it was interesting to see some acknowledgement nonetheless.

Reflecting those problems in his film=good...but soapboxing those problems in his film=bad.
While I do agree with this statement in general, as I said in my post about the film, since these same problems have plagued the black community for decades now, I totally understanding filmmakers being done with subtlety altogether.

I do NOT need to see people being ran over by a car and dying for real. I know about that incident and it's horrendous!
The end footage could've done without that for sure. Just showing the Unite the Right rally on its own would've been enough. The former president's comments and the real David Duke was excessively driving the point home, but I was fine with their inclusion as well.

That was all I had remembered about the footage when I was thinking of nominating the film. When I rewatched it the following day, I thought showing the car was wholly unnecessary and put me off a little bit. It didn't ruin the film or anything, but I did think it was a bit much.



We're not really suppose to talk about that anymore here, unless it's in a movie.
Thought we were talking about a movie



All good points that you made Cosmic, I'll try to quickly respond.
You'd think that would be obvious, but there are plenty of people (like those at the Charlottesville rally) who share the KKK's beliefs. They're clearly not going to watch this film, but given the rise in white supremacy, particularly in the US over the last few years, the depressing reality is that you can't assume the audience is going to inherently see the KKK as the bad guys.
Even worse if people watch the film and like the views of the KKK! Oh god! They'd hopelessly be lost if they did. Still my point was that it's clear what the KKK was saying was wrong! While it's not clear what the black rally speaker was saying was wrong (about killing cops) as most of what he said was very right and positive. I'd like the film much better with that cop killing statement left out.

I also don't appreciate the anti-cop rhetoric, though I think that part of the speech was meant to be hyperbole.
I can see that, in fact I also felt that the young woman president of the college black chapter often was written to delivery hyperbole so that then she could be balanced by the calmer undercover cop...And I like that part of it as it was balanced and didn't seem like the director injecting his own views into a historical story.
However, it does remind me of something I was going to bring up but forgot: the black community is not depicted as being free from problematic points of view themselves. Obviously that's not delved into, but it was interesting to see some acknowledgement nonetheless.
I noticed that too and appreciated the honesty of it. Even more so in Do the Right Thing.

The end footage could've done without that for sure. Just showing the Unite the Right rally on its own would've been enough. The former president's comments and the real David Duke was excessively driving the point home, but I was fine with their inclusion as well.
Agreed, I almost mentioned the Trump/Duke footage in my review and I get what Spike was doing there...while I can't stand either man! I wish Spike left the politics out and cut that scene.
That was all I had remembered about the footage when I was thinking of nominating the film. When I rewatched it the following day, I thought showing the car was wholly unnecessary and put me off a little bit. It didn't ruin the film or anything, but I did think it was a bit much.
On a personal note I've made a conscious decision not to watch news footage of that type. I can't watch people being killed for real, I feel mentally abused by the last few seconds. (Though I'm still happy to have watch the film and like I said I enjoyed 95% of it)



Thought we were talking about a movie
I wasn't sure what you meant, as it sounded like you were asking me how the media in real life should handle shootings by cops and Yoda has put a lid on that discussion...Though while you were gone from MoFo we did have some intense discussion about that, probably too intense!



Chimes at Midnight (Orson Welles, 1965)

I don't really know anything about the man but I always pictured Welles as a grumpy bastard on set so seeing so much genuine mirth radiating from the film was a pleasant surprise. Everyone is having a blast here spouting Shakespeare gibberish and myself being rather smooth-brained was able to interpret very little of it. Not that I minded at all since I don't care about narrative in the least anyway and also it just sounds cool. Not only does it sound cool but lucky me the movie looks cool too! Bouncing between some decently intricate tracking shots and fairly quick, dynamically framed static shots, the film has a lot of life too it and is a bit rough around the edges which adds an air of spontaneity to it as well. Of course the standout scene,
WARNING: "Description of said standout scene" spoilers below
the large battle in the middle of the film, deserves its own special mention. For one I wasn't even expecting a battle at all (again, smooth-brain) let alone one that was so visceral and bordering on horrific at points even and then to have that inter-spliced with Welles in his big dumb suit of armour running around like a doofus was a brilliant roller coaster of feelings.
Now, that rough around the edges feel I mentioned earlier does occasionally result in some not great feeling cuts and me not grasping the language at all did lead to the mind starting to wander from time to time. Very minor complaints. This was a real pleasant surprise in that a) its great and b) that Welles shot a movie where he dunked on himself the entire runtime.

Off to a great start so far. Guess I should watch something bad next so I'm not stuck with all the duds at the end.



The thing isolated becomes incomprehensible
I guess I'll jump on Blackkklansman bandwagon next then! I remember it being easy to watch and I might need a break from Themroc



Chimes at Midnight (Orson Welles, 1965)

I don't really know anything about the man but I always pictured Welles as a grumpy bastard on set so seeing so much genuine mirth radiating from the film was a pleasant surprise. Everyone is having a blast here spouting Shakespeare gibberish and myself being rather smooth-brained was able to interpret very little of it. Not that I minded at all since I don't care about narrative in the least anyway and also it just sounds cool. Not only does it sound cool but lucky me the movie looks cool too! Bouncing between some decently intricate tracking shots and fairly quick, dynamically framed static shots, the film has a lot of life too it and is a bit rough around the edges which adds an air of spontaneity to it as well. Of course the standout scene,
WARNING: "Description of said standout scene" spoilers below
the large battle in the middle of the film, deserves its own special mention. For one I wasn't even expecting a battle at all (again, smooth-brain) let alone one that was so visceral and bordering on horrific at points even and then to have that inter-spliced with Welles in his big dumb suit of armour running around like a doofus was a brilliant roller coaster of feelings.
Now, that rough around the edges feel I mentioned earlier does occasionally result in some not great feeling cuts and me not grasping the language at all did lead to the mind starting to wander from time to time. Very minor complaints. This was a real pleasant surprise in that a) its great and b) that Welles shot a movie where he dunked on himself the entire runtime.

Off to a great start so far. Guess I should watch something bad next so I'm not stuck with all the duds at the end.
Glad you enjoyed it!

The Shakespearean dialogue - which seanc could also attest to - is pretty dense, so it will help to turn on subtitles. Hopefully, it's not as unintelligible as what I am hearing about Themroc's dialogue to any of you!
__________________
Last Great Movie Seen
Vertigo (Hitchcock, 1958)



I watched one of the nominations earlier today, but have absolutely no idea what to say about it. My mind is completely blank. I'll sleep on it and see if I can come up with something tomorrow. If not, I might have to write something pathetically short haha.



While the ending of BlacKkKlansman is the exact opposite of subtle, I loved it as, given the importance of the point it makes, I think that spelling the point out as clearly as possible is warranted. Like, yeah, the car scene is hard to watch, but that element contributes to it being a wake-up call.



Donít hold back, very interested, because I didnít find it racist at all
I hope I never do hold back in my reviews.

I just read this on the internet:
A critic should not be afraid to talk about anything, let alone being afraid to be "offensive." It's absolutely preposterous that people think about being offensive. And because of this everyone is self-censoring themselves.



This review of BlacKKKlansman by fellow MoFo Gideon58 might be of interest. I believe Gideon might be the only black movie reviewer here at MoFo, so his take might be an interesting read. He's our top reviewer having wrote more reviews than even me! Take a look at his review.

https://www.movieforums.com/communit...39#post1965839



Good grief seems like you all are flying! I'll be playing the part of the caboose with this one, I was actually pretty swift last go around.



Whiplash: Chazelle is one of my favorite young directors and Whiplash is a movie I think about often. This was my third watch and it didnít disappoint. I love the way Chazelle constructs a narrative. Very propulsive and entertaining storyteller. Great dialogue that puts his characters front and center.

The plot point that propels us to the third act is still a sticking point from this being a true favorite for me. I just donít like it and think there were definitely better ways to get us to the finale, which is one of my favorite endings ever.

Look forward to more viewings in the future.





Bicycle Thieves / Ladri di Biciclette (1948)
Directed By: Vittorio De Sica
Starring: Lamberto Maggiorani, Enzo Staiola, Lianella Carell


I first saw this film around a decade ago, but it didn't exactly leave an impression on me. Since I didn't find it engaging at the time, over the years it became difficult to recall the film's finer details. Despite not remembering much about it, I was always surprised by how much love I saw for Bicycle Thieves online. Whenever someone called it a masterpiece, it made me wonder if there was another film with the same title.

Watching the film again, the opening scenes were far more intriguing than I had found them before. The realistic portrayal of poverty and desperation was quite impressive, and it was a wise choice to use amateur actors who didn't exactly have to imagine the living conditions depicted in the film. There was some odd dubbing to many scenes that I found distracting, but overall I thought the story was rather interesting.

However that all changed about halfway through the film, around the time Ricci and his son started following the old man. The chase and subsequent badgering went on for far too long, and it completely disengaged me from the film. I lost sympathy for the father, which his behaviour afterwards certainly didn't help, and I no longer cared about what happened at all. As such, the final scenes fell completely flat.
I do at least see why some people really appreciate the film, but it's just not something that resonates with me.

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Bicycle Thieves: very good movie with an excellent story and a great ending, even if I would have tweaked the ending just a bit.
I'm curious to know how you would have changed the ending, if you don't mind sharing.

Then there's his son. Wow, talk about a good kid actor. He doesn't really have many lines, but through the range of emotions that play out on his young face, I could see the desperation of his family in post war Italy.
Do you (or anyone else) happen to know how old that kid was at the time? He had this look about him that made him appear wise beyond his years.