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B&W
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RULES OF THIS THREAD: No really large posts* because nobody can be bothered reading them

















*Unless they are really, really necessary.



B&W
Registered User
A contrast between Mohammed and Jesus Christ
By George Zeller


Mohammed was the prophet of war; Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7).

Mohammed’s disciples killed for their faith; Christ’s disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Tim. 4:7).

Mohammed promoted persecution against the “infidels”; Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Tim. 1:13-15).

Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ is the giver of life (John 10:27-28).

Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands; Christ murdered none but saved many (compare John 12:48).

Mohammed’s method was COMPULSION; Christ’s aim was voluntary CONVERSION (Acts 3:19).

Mohammed practiced FORCE; Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29, 35)

Mohammed was a WARRIOR; Christ is a DELIVERER (Col. 1:13).

Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God (Heb. 4:12; Acts 2:37).

Mohammed said to the masses, “Convert of die!”; Christ said, “Believe and live!” (John 6:47; 11:25-26)

Mohammed was swift to shed blood (Rom. 3:15-17); Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Eph. 1:7).

Mohammed preached “Death to the infidels!”; Christ prayed “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:24)

Mohammed declared a holy war (Jihad) against infidels; Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary’s cross (Col. 2:14-15) and His followers share in that victory (John 16:33)

Mohammed constrained people by conquest; Christ constrained people by love (2 Cor. 5:14)

Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god Allah; Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said, “Blessed are the peacemakers” (Matthew 5:9).

Some modern day disciples of Mohammed responded to the terrorist attacks by cheering in the streets; modern day disciples of Christ are deeply grieved at past atrocities carried out by those who were “Christians” in name only (the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.).

Many Muslims are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder; many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do strictly follow the teachings of their Founder (Rom. 12:17-21).

Mohammed called upon his servants to fight; Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight … but now is My kingdom not from here” (John 18:36).

Mohammed ordered death to the Jews (see A. Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, Oxford University Press [1975], p.369); Christ ordered that the gospel be preached “to the Jew first” (Rom. 1:16).

The Koran says, “Fight in the cause of Allah” (Qu’ran 2.224); the Bible says, “we wrestle not against flesh and blood” and “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal” (Eph. 6:12; 2 Cor. 10:4).

The Koran says, “Fight and slay the Pagans where ever ye find them” (Qu’ran 9.5); Christ said, “Preach the gospel to everyone’ (Mark 16:15).

The Koran says, “I will inspire terror into the hearts of unbelievers” (Qu’ran 8.12); God inspires His terror (fear, reverential awe) into the hearts of believers (Isaiah 8:13).

The Koran (Qu’ran) is a terrorist manual that condones fighting, conflict, terror, slaughter, and genocide against those who do not accept Islam; the Bible is a missionary manual to spread the gospel of peace to all the world (Rom.10:15).

Mohammed’s Mission was to conquer the world for Allah; Christ’s mission was to conquer sin’s penalty and power by substitutionary atonement (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 3:18).

Mohammed considered Christ a good prophet; Christ pronounced Mohammed to be a false prophet (John 10:10; Matt. 24:11).

Mohammed claimed that there was but one God, Allah; Christ claimed that He Himself was God (John 10:30-31; John 8:58-59; John 5:18; John14:9).

Mohammed’s tomb: OCCUPIED!

Christ’s tomb: EMPTY!



B&W
Registered User
o.k. that post wasn't 'sposed to be that long!



I'm not old, you're just 12.
Is this whole thread going to be just Christians bashing other people's beliefs? If it is, why bother. I served in the army with a lot of people of the muslim faith, and to portray them as Jihad loving loonies is not in the least bit fair or accurate. They were very moral, non violent, and most of all PATRIOTIC Americans. Just like all Christians don't want to be lumped in with extremists like Jerry Falwell or those millitant right to lifers that kill doctors and punch pregnant ladies, I am dead sure all Muslims don't want to be likened to The Taliban. (just to difuse any criticizms that I am being "Anti-Christian," I was raised in a Christian home and went to sunday school every week.)
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B&W
Registered User
Is this whole thread going to be just Christians bashing other people's beliefs?
As a Christian, I love all people and I will never bash their beliefs just for fun (well hopefully not!) but rather because I am concerned for there well-being and ultimately their eternal destiny.


They were very moral, non violent, and most of all PATRIOTIC Americans.
Well, good for them, but it makes them a traitor to their Islam faith


Just like all Christians don't want to be lumped in with extremists like Jerry Falwell or those millitant right to lifers that kill doctors and punch pregnant ladies
k, any christian that does things like that are not obeying Christ.

I am dead sure all Muslims don't want to be likened to The Taliban.
Yes, but that means that they are not true Muslims, as Mohammed preached "Convert or Die."



I dunno what to make of this thread. I don't like to start threads for debates. If someone else start one, or if the topic comes up in another thread, well, I'll go with it...but I almost never like the idea of intentionally and specifically starting one.

As a Christian, I love all people and I will never bash their beliefs just for fun (well hopefully not!) but rather because I am concerned for there well-being and ultimately their eternal destiny.
I don't believe Christians have to love all people...



I'm not old, you're just 12.
Originally posted by TWTCommish
I dunno what to make of this thread. I don't like to start threads for debates. If someone else start one, or if the topic comes up in another thread, well, I'll go with it...but I almost never like the idea of intentionally and specifically starting one.


I don't believe Christians have to love all people...
I see your point, 'Commish. Maybe I shoulda let this one go... If there's one thing that's sure to get ugly fast, it's a religious discussion. That and politics. And I agree that nobody has to love all people, but I do think it's our duty to not HATE others.



B&W
Registered User
Does anyone think this statement is true?

Organized religion has caused more suffering, wars and violence than any other cause.



Man, what are you trying to do?

There is not point to this thread...
Go read the Religion thread if you want debate on religion, we've been there done that, and you seem to be throwing things out into the void to see who'll bite at it first, or something.


Who thinks this is true:

Diet Coke is better than regular Coke
C'mon. Anyone wanna dispute that?!
There's gotta be someone out there who will clash heads with my pointless debate...

C'MON!
I'LL KILL EVERY ONE OF YOU!!



THE RELIGION THREAD enjoy... http://movieforums.net/showthread.ph...6&pagenumber=1
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Fez Wizardo's Avatar
Um Bungo! Um Bungo!
B&W your mass generalisation of the Islamic faith is somewhat disturbing.

"as Mohammed preached "Convert or Die." " I have no in depth knowledge of the religion, or the prophet but I know from a muslim friend that "Islam" means "free submission of will to god"

Remember you're talking about people here, religion is not it's own entity, it's made up of it's believers, believers are normal people, people have morals, people have a conscience, they are not religious robots.

In all your examples such as this:
Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ is the giver of life (John 10:27-28).

you have provided the resources which say "christ is the giver of life" but where does it say "Mohammed was the taker of life"

I do not wish to join this religious debate but as I said I have a good friend (coming onto 12 years now) whose a Muslim, and a proud Brit, (as well as being the biggest pansy I know )

I find your comments quite offensive and completely irrational.
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Another high quality post by Fez Wizardo



I'm not going to back B&W on this one...but I will say that Islam is not a religion with the kind of tolerance I would require in my own set of beliefs. Its followers may be more tolerant, but from what I undrstand, the religion itself is not. This thread is a big mistake, though. It should never have been started.



B&W
Registered User
Diet Coke is better than regular Coke
THis statement cannot be backed up, mine can.



C'MON!
I'LL KILL EVERY ONE OF YOU!!
lol I take your point man! (I derserved that)




you have provided the resources which say "christ is the giver of life" but where does it say "Mohammed was the taker of life"
K, i don't know how familar you are with the history of Islam. But Mohammed was a warrior in every literal sense of the word.



I do not wish to join this religious debate but as I said I have a good friend (coming onto 12 years now) whose a Muslim, and a proud Brit, (as well as being the biggest pansy I know )
Hey, so do I, and I respect them and their decision. However I do not agree with it, and I will never just sit back and accept it. (Although I wouldn't force it down his throat as it would be pointless)




This thread is a big mistake, though. It should never have been started.
Please don't say you're not uncomfortable when I can challenge your thinking TWT.

The point of this thread was to prove that Christianity is not a religion. It is the meaning and purpose of existence.




Organized religion has caused more suffering, wars and violence than any other cause.
Religion (now I hate religionism I am just making sure you know the facts) has caused much, much less deaths than politics.
Yet you will never hear people say "Let's do away with politics" because it would be impossable, likewise, it is the same with religion.


As a History Professor at a Junior college I challenge my classes to comment on the following statement:
Organized religion has caused more suffering, wars and violence than any other cause.

Almost all the students raise their hands in agreement. I then demand that they provide dead bodies as evidence. They usually mention the Crusades and one or two other religious wars they might of heard of but in none of their examples can they come up with a million deaths. (Some scholars used to teach that the Thirty Years’ War in Germany resulted in 8 million deaths, but modern scholars have demonstrated it was more like 200 thousand and in fact the population of Germany actually increased during that war.) I then point out that most of the people who have died as a result of war, have done so in the Twentieth Century and that most of the killing was done in the name of secular ideologies. I then ask them who is the “baddest” of them all. Most guess Hitler. I then tell them that he is rated #3. Some then guess Stalin and I inform them that most scholars place him at #2 with 20 million killed. Almost no one gets #1 who, of course, is Mao who starts with an estimated 40 million. I then point out that the top two were Communists and Hitler was a radical proponent of Social Darwinism. All of these ideologies are based on atheistic systems.
By Pat Johnson



Please don't say you're not uncomfortable when I can challenge your thinking TWT.

The point of this thread was to prove that Christianity is not a religion. It is the meaning and purpose of existence.
Challenge my thinking? That's got nothing to do with it. I don't believe it makes sense to go out LOOKING for this stuff, except in rare circumstances. The Bible does tell us not to waste our time with those who will not listen. I don't see the point in starting a thread for a debate. Personally, I just wait until they happen. I might steer something in a certain direction, but starting the thread is asking for trouble, IMO.

As for Islam; I believe it is an intolerant religion (too much so for my taste, personally), but I don't think Mohammed being a warrior means a whole lot. Being a warrior is not an inherently bad thing. Mohammed was only a prophet, anyway.



B&W
Registered User
k, TWT, you and me do not think the same, or have the same view on religion.

You believe in religion.
I believe in Christ.

I sincerely pray that you will sooner rather than later as well.



Mohammed was only a prophet, anyway.
Your opinion, not mine!



B&W
Registered User
When you say that all religions are basicly about the same thing. That all of them worship the same good God.

You havn't said it straight out. But I can sense that you would think, say that catholics, will end up at the same place christians will end up.

Hey, if I'm wrong, and you are a geniune christian. Then great! Cut my legs off and call me shortie for saying that you arn't.



I'll tell you exactly what I think: I think that Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike all worship what they believe is a good, kind God that created this world, and to whom we owe repentance for our sins. This is worth noting: you or I don't really know much, when you get down to it. Look at John 3:16...by that verse, would it really be such a stretch to imagine that other people who believed in "God" (Allah is just a name) with the same basic principles that we have could be saved as well? In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Muslims do believe in Jesus, and His death on The Cross.

The issue of who is saved and who is not is VERY gray. This, I think, is what The Bible is talking about when it warns us not to judge people...because it is God who really knows who believes and ho does not...so I cannot comfortably say that Jews and Muslims are not saved.



Originally posted by B&W

As a Christian...
Well, good for them, but it makes them a traitor to their Islam faith.....

Yes, but that means that they are not true Muslims, as Mohammed preached "Convert or Die."
Ok, since you are a Christian, I don't think you are in any position to talk about what's right in Islam and what isn't. You're Christian. You have no right saying who's a "true" Muslim and who isn't, you Eurocentric evangelistic pig.

I agree with TWT. This thread should never have been started. It's disgusting. Where's bigval?
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Well, Steve, it's not really all that unreasonable. If you were to read some of The Bible, you could probably use it to determine who is following it and who is not...just as you can study the Islamic Faith and perhaps say the same sort of thing. BTW: I don't this this thread is disgusting. Just not my style, I suppose.