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Goa

sunset at calangute beach



entrance to a tropical spice plantation



statues of dona and paula---lovers who committed suicide from this spot




former house of portuguese nobleman



elephant at spice plantation



lighthouse of fort aguada---built by portuguese



view of sea from ramparts of fort aguada



sula vineyards---western india








photo of bridge i was travelling on taken in 2009 in rains . effect of rains in photo .




You can't win an argument just by being right!
Thats a great photo, ashdoc! Thanks for posting those. When did you take them and where is that bridge?

I havent been for a holiday for a while and dont think I'll be going on one any time soon so it's nice to see my travel bug thread still going. What's your favourite holiday destination in India? Hard to say for me because it's all so diverse/. The differences in regions is astounding. I love that entrance to the vineyard photo. Where is that?



Thats a great photo, ashdoc! Thanks for posting those. When did you take them and where is that bridge?

I havent been for a holiday for a while and dont think I'll be going on one any time soon so it's nice to see my travel bug thread still going. What's your favourite holiday destination in India? Hard to say for me because it's all so diverse/. The differences in regions is astounding. I love that entrance to the vineyard photo. Where is that?
The bridge connects Mumbai/Bombay with it's suburbs , but because there are already roads connecting the city with it's suburbs and no more space to build more roads on land it has been built over the sea . It is known as the sealink.

Because India is a hot country most of my favourite travel destinations are In the mountains where the air is cooler . They are known as hill stations and were built by the British for their families because they could not tolerate the hot climate of India. The women used to stay here while their husbands ruled in the plains . The women were called grass widows . These women used to have affairs with local men or other Britishers posted at hill stations, because their husbands were too busy ruling India. There are 'points' with scenic views of the valleys below at various hill stations where these couples used to make romantic outings. Some of the famous hill stations are shimla, mussouri, Darjeeling, kullu, manali , mahabaleshwar , munnar , ooty , kodaikanal and coorg.

Sula vineyards is outside the city of Nashik in western India. It is famous for sula festival in February where artistes come to perform in sula's amphitheatre.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Thanks. I think Darjeeling from last century is my favourite Hill Station I've been to. I dont know what it's like now. Probably wrecked by the scourge of the 1900s. I cant think which greenie said that. I think maybe Sir Atten Bro.



These women used to have affairs with local men or other Britishers posted at hill stations, because their husbands were too busy ruling India.
The British women had affairs with local men? Seems extremely unlikely to me. As to their having affairs with fellow Brits, what evidence do you have for this?
__________________
I’m here only on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays. That’s why I’m here now.



The British women had affairs with local men? Seems extremely unlikely to me. As to their having affairs with fellow Brits, what evidence do you have for this?
there is the anglo indian community in india , a product of british men and women having local affairs .

a grass widow living alone for months while the husband is away at the plains ruling the country gets lonely and loneliness can cause need for love and companionship , especially when news comes of the husband having an indian woman as mistress in the plains

the affairs are mentioned in travel booklets giving information about the hill stations . also local guides tell about them .

you seem to be irked . the purpose was not to cast aspersions on the characters of the women .



'So they decided to make Mussoorie free of administrators. As a result, you had a lot of young chaps coming up to meet grass widows whose husbands were down on the plains - with obvious results. A Separation Bell used to be rung at dawn so the chaps could leave the ladies' bedrooms, and the prestige of the Raj was maintained.'
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2...rescapesection



You can't win an argument just by being right!
ash doc is quite correct.



Kipling, who visited Shimla frequently in the 1880s, wrote of the intense flirtation, trysts and debauchery for which it was infamous. Scores of young British girls, in search of husbands, turned up in Shimla ready to impress, only to find they had stiff competition from the “grass widows”, more experienced ladies in their 40s visiting without spouses, and often more popular with the bachelors.

Kipling wrote:

The young men come, the young men go, Each pink and white and neat

She’s older than their mothers, but They grovel at Her feet.

They walk beside Her rickshaw-wheels

None ever walk by mine;

And that’s because I’m seventeen And she is forty-nine.

Even the ugliest government officer in Shimla had his hill mistress. Many a cuckold was outed, attacked and divorced due to shenanigans uncovered here. But if the British were overly amorous with their own, they did their best to shun everyone else, as Indian Summers also accurately portrays.

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“Simla provided an escape not only from the heat, but also from the native culture,” writes Pamela Kanwar in Imperial Simla. “If social interaction between races was scorned in the plains, it was despised at Simla.”

Shimla’s neighbourhoods reflected these stark divisions. At the top, on the Ridge with views to both sides, lived the Viceroy, senior British officers and other wealthy, distinguished residents. “Domiciled” Britons – those who permanently resided in India – and mixed-race Anglo-Indians lived a tier below, around the Mall and its arteries.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...egacy-lives-on



"The Grass Widows were wives of Raj officials who were spending the summer in Shimla while their husbands remained on the plains." Raaja continues the conversation we'd started in the cab. "'Grass' was probably a reference to the fresher mountain air. These women were famous for their sexual escapades. They earned themselves nicknames: the 'Charpoy Cobra', charpoy being a traditional woven bed; the 'Subaltern's Guide', named for her taste for subalterns or junior officers; the 'Bed-and-Breakfast', who explains herself; and my own personal favourite, the 'Passionate Haystack'."

"Not everyone was happy about these predatory older women during the Raj," continues Raaja. "I have something here that will give you an idea." With this, he pulls us away from the crowds, into an alcove next to a hole-in-the-wall bangle store. He extracts a small wad of papers from his belted suit trousers. It's a 1913 cutting about the Grass Widows from a local publication, lampooning the "seasoned spinsters and speculating mammas", and the latters' complaint that the Grass Widows are "collecting and enticing away all the eligible bachelors from the unmarried generation".
https://www.telegraphindia.com/11312...s/17698001.jsp



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Thanks for posting those, ash. And my apologies - I didnt see the text in your photos the first time. That sunset in Goa is one of many memories I have of Goa. Absolutely stunning. I cant remember the name of the beach I stayed at when I was cylcing. Not the backpacker hangout.



Then why did you?
i just stated facts that are true . where did i say that the women were of loose character ? i didn't .



You can't win an argument just by being right!
i just stated facts that are true . where did i say that the women were of loose character ? i didn't .
I love the charpoy cobra. Lol ash!

Do you have more on this? Could really be in your India thread because it'sgreat culturaal exchange.



i just stated facts that are true . where did i say that the women were of loose character ? i didn't .
You quote way too much from stuff you read. Neither one of us was there so I am going to leave it at that.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Just staying with the grass widows a bit longer, there is a really beautiful scene in the Movie White Mischief (About the shenanigans by the sunset valley in crowd in kenya during The Raj) where an older woman reaches behind to touch her Man's aka houseboy's/lover's hand resting on her shoulder. She had to do it in secret back then. Brings me to tears every time. And the scene in Out of Africa where Karen is standing at her thrift sale I think she called it, and her and Farah shared the moment that Denis died. I bawl every time. (I'm not saying she had sexual relations with him because I dont know, but the very deep connection they had)

Ash, I really regret wasting a year arguing with you. I was blind, matey.



You quote way too much from stuff you read. Neither one of us was there so I am going to leave it at that.
So we should disregard all recorded history because we weren't there? Or only the parts you don't like?

If anything it's an empowering anecdote anyway since it was women not just accepting bad treatment from their unfaithful spouses in a time when that was the social norm, and instead potentially finding love or at least companionship with likely mistreated locals.



Out of Africa .
Here's my review of the movie




This off beat film is based on the real life memoirs of a Danish woman called Karen Blixen ( played by Meryl Streep ) who lived in Kenya during the colonial times of British rule over the colony and spent an idyllic existence there .

And why not an idyllic existence ?? The Europeans lived a life of luxury there that only conquerors can live , owned thousands of acres of land , and the time of Africans calling for independence was not yet near .

Karen came there after proposing to her husband that he should marry her and help her start a dairy farm , but after coming there he invests her money to start a coffee plantation instead . And even in this venture he takes little interest , preferring to go for hunting the animals that abound in this part of Africa . And he is a philanderer , his philandering resulting in him transmitting Syphilis to his wife due to which she cannot ever have children even after a long and difficult recovery from the disease .

Is it the lowly position of women during those days that even a rich and powerful woman like Karen has to put up with all this and cannot do anything ?? Or is it her understanding nature that she forgives her husband for everything and tries to fall in love with him ?? Or is she just a hopeless romantic searching for love as opposed to loneliness ??

But things take a turn due to the appearance of a dashing handsome hunter---played by who else but Robert Redford....and Karen falls head over heels in love with him....they go for long hunts in the african grasslands where they participate in beautifully photographed hunting of lions and lionesses , they dance the night away beside romantic campfires at midnight , go flying in biplanes over the african savannah , and make wanton love on satin sheets .

But are all men the same ?/ While women dream of love and loyalty and everlasting romance , men think of only their next conquest....Denys Finch Hatton ( played by Redford ) too wants his freedom and his vagabond life and his big game hunting safaris deep in the African wilderness rather than marriage and domesticity and settling down . Ultimately Karen has to let go even of him . And is it because of their similar natures that Hatton and Karen's ex husband are not jealous of each other inspite of having the same woman at different times in their lives ??

The tides of history touch upon this remote corner of the world too , and the first world war is shown intruding the the peace in the first half of the movie . And not even Karen's desperate following of him where he has gone to fight the Germans convinces her husband of her love . When her coffee plantation ( over which she has spent so much hard work after both men in her life reject her ) is on the brink of a fabulous profit , fire breaks out destroying everything . And her pleas for help fall on deaf ears , even though she goes to the extent of falling on her knees begging for help in front of visiting royalty .

It seems success is not destined to favour Karen . It is time to say goodbye to Africa...
But has Karen's life in Africa been a failure ?? In fact as she prepares to leave , her worth is realised by the men and the people who she is going to say goodbye to . Her lover has to confess that she has destroyed his ability to be alone without her . Her husband too is sad . The same gentleman's club where she was driven out because they didn't entertain ladies ( Indian actor Kabir Bedi plays head waiter there ) now invites her so that all men there can raise a toast to her . But above all, the african people are sad to lose her---for she has formed lasting relationships with them , and been a just master of her estates . Her servants and other africans whose life she has touched do not want her leave ; some even want to go with her....But it is too late....As the train to Mombasa arrives , from where a ship will take her back to Europe , Karen has left her imprint on the land....today there is a museum in her name where she once lived....

The movie moves at an idyllic pace amidst the greenery of Africa , never rushing it's flow . And inspite of the ups and downs of Karen's life , seeing the movie I found peace and tranquillity of mind . That peace and tranquillity was increased by the stunning musical score by John Barry . Hearing the tunes of Barry's music while seeing Karen and her lover holding hands in a plane flying over the vastness and the natural beauty of Africa---I had at last found nirvana....

Acting is good by everyone and photography is good too---watch the scene where a lion and a lioness try to attack the leading lady and actor only to find themselves in the leap of death , for they are shot dead by them...

Verdict---Most satisfying .

Three and a half stars .



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Brilliant review, ash! I've been to that museum. It's in her house in a village now called Karen, "at the foot of the Ngong Hills".

OT it's my thread so I encourage OTs; I think my mum got the wrong kid! one of my sister's is named Karen - long A. Her middle name is Joan after Joan of Arc

BTS: The locals were very angry about the making of that film - locals werent used for the shoot. They were all brought in from outside, like your Kabir Bedi. No I wasnt there for the shoot before anyone asks. That story was told to me by the long retired District Commissioner from the days of the raj. I'm sure I would have written about that lovely gentleman in this thread at some stage, "but I'm getting ahead of myself"

My lord that movie makes me cry like a baby.