President Trump

you think i only don't like him because he's not a liberal?

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letterboxd

One day Trump might actually do something bad but no one will notice because there has been far too much crying Wolf.

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Er...yes? If you start describing why you don't, I assume it's going to primarily be because he supported and opposed things you didn't.

...he already has, and you've already ignored it or downplayed it for that very reason.

Crying wolf is a valid reason to criticize the media. It's not a valid reason to handwave away the actual problems, of which there have been plenty, and which I don't think you'd be able to deny if you were ever to sustain a discussion about this, as opposed to drive-by deflections and transparent quasi-trolling.

I do strongly dislike the liberal media.

However this latest criticism of Trump is a contender for worst yet. He says thoughts with McCains family and apparently they isn't enough. They were basically enemies so what more fo you want him to say?

The media should be loving Trump, he's given the 24 hour modern political media something to talk about. They will miss him when he's gone, in fact whoever the next President is I bet they will get less media coverage than Trump, at least for a couple of years.

Drive by deflections . Someone should put that on an Internet lingo dictionary LOL

So do I. But it shouldn't lead you to downplay or excuse crappy behavior just because you really don't want to agree with them that it's bad. "Never take the wrong side of an issue just because your opponent has taken the right side."

You answered your own question: they're upset that he was enemies with someone admirable over something really stupid and petty, making the perfunctory condolence ring especially hollow.

This really isn't complicated.

Should be self-explanatory: it's a drive-by because it's short and quick and you usually don't stick around. It's a deflection because it's not a defense of the actual thing, but just deflects the issue to being about something else you hate more.

It'd also be an okay band name.

Problems sure, but more good has been done by Trump. So what if he slept with a load of strippers or prostitutes when he was a celebrity businessman and paid them to shut up, no one gives a ****. The Russian stuff is so ridiculous.

I'm guessing if I ask you to support this the discussion will peter out pretty quick.

"when he was a celebrity businessman" = "when he was newly married." And you're leaving out the part where he just straight-up lied about it. So your position is that the President's personal loyalties have nothing to do with their effectiveness as a leader, and that it's NBD if they lie to everyone over and over?

That's not what I was referring to, anyway. There are plenty of blatant mistakes even if you agree with his general aims. Do I have to list them? I assume you'll go "yeah I guess that was bad" about some, and won't have known about others, and it'll be obvious you basically just think he's good because he sticks it to the people you hate.

Some of it, sure, but this is another deflection.

You realize that if he does or says something bad, it's not canceled out if you can find people overreacting to something else he did or said, right?

Right?

but how does that work for people who don't usually side with liberals? Sedai, for instance.

also, i don't determine how good or bad a person is based on how liberal they are, and i'm pretty sure if i said the same thing to you, but about conservatives, you'd find it insulting.

On lunch hour at work and on phone, before get accused of disappearing.

I think Sedai's "agreed" was about the reaction, not about McCain being a "touchhole."

I think I'd just find it ridiculous, because I haven't said anything to suggest that I think this way.

McCain's a good litmus test for this, because he clearly had consistent and reasonable beliefs and defended them even when it was inconvenient, and even when it put them at odds with his party. So if ever there was a candidate for "I don't agree with them, BUT..." you'd think it would be this guy. But when, in death, he gets the same kind of dismissal any conservative does, it's hard not to conclude that it's just purely ideological and makes no allowances for earnest disagreement.

I mean, the last time we argued you said something like this and literally never came back.

It's obvious your heart's not really in having a sustained discussion about any of this. Which is fine, except for the thing where you show up every three weeks to jab no one in particular about it.

Fair point, I'm not looking for a huge debate. Again I am at work, you can confirm this can't you? You have user location, I'm not at usual desktop location. And when I go home tonight after 12 hours it will be some PUBG, shower and bed won't go on desktop to do massive multi quote replies.

Maybe tmrow though...

Which, again, is totally cool. I'm just not nuts about people lighting fires without sticking around to help put them out.

IPs (sometimes) give me general location, but I dunno where you work and I doubt it would be specific enough for me to confirm.

But it's immaterial, because I 100% believe you when you say you're at work. I just don't think that's why you're not going to have the discussion, because obviously over the years there have been plenty of opportunities. So I've naturally concluded you're just not interested in it, for one reason or another.

My best guess is that the length has little to do with it and really short, to-the-point rebuttals would get met with the same thing, and that the common thread is whether you're willing to actually get into the details of any issue or cite things, as opposed to just take a 30,000-foot view of who's good or bad based on very broad ideological considerations (like political correctness).

Which, again, is totally fine, but just doesn't really fly when you wanna briefly land to take some pot shot and then take off again.

maybe. in any case, i have a couple friends who hate liberals n McCain even more than Trump, sooo...

ok, i guess the 'they' in "they still use criteria other than "is also a liberal" to determine whether someone is a good and valuable person" was about someone else then. i guess i must be the other reason, then.

anyway, liberals love McCain now for two reasons that i can see:

- bc he had a spat with Trump (even though he initially supported his campaign and didn't turn against him til the Hollywood Access tape)
- bc he and Obama became friends afterall. if you recall, liberals hated him in 2008.

i dunno, i hate him for the same reasons i hated him before: much like Obama and his ****ty foreign policy, he was a war criminal responsible for many deaths, but bc they aren't American deaths, liberals don't care.

Wow. Have they elaborated on why? Foreign policy, mainly?

In all honesty, I don't know, and was trying to allow for the fact that I don't know even though only one explanation really makes sense to me. Also wanted to make the general observation, since I'm seeing a lot of "actually, McCain was..." responses that don't technically end with "...a conservative" or even "...a soldier" but sure seem like they should given what follows.

Oh sure, it's definitely true that some people like him only insofar as he's convenient to some other goal. They loved him before 2008, too. That election was pretty eye-opening. I'd been hearing liberals say McCain was the one Republican they might consider voting for for maybe a solid decade, but when he ran he got the same treatment as any of them would have.

This is a running joke among conservatives on Twitter, by the way: Strange New Respect. How they often find these guys to be wrong but moderate and honorable statesmen before or after they're running, when there's no political cost to praising them. But when something's on the line they've gotta fend off the same stuff. This is how we get people trying to tell us, with a straight face, that Mitt Romney is an extremist. Mitt Romney.

I try to be idealistic, but in practice I am rarely shocked when someone is overtly partisan or hypocritical. Those two elections were pretty eye-opening, though.

I think that's totally reasonable (and would think so even if you hadn't tossed me those bones about Obama and liberals ). I'm not as gung-ho about his foreign policy. I'm pretty loathe to say "war criminal" about something that isn't overt, though. Sadly, the Overton Window of what's potentially reasonable in the midst of war is more like a chasm.

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Look, I'm not judging you - after all, I'm posting here myself, but maybe, just maybe, if you spent less time here and more time watching films, maybe, and I stress, maybe your taste would be of some value. Just a thought, ya know.

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“There's no place to hide, When you're lit from the inside” Roisin Murphy

Hey Nostromo, If you can make it up to Massachusetts in the next couple days, we'll go there with our Trump hats and boo the hell out of that bitch(After the show).