2014 FIFA World Cup Finals Discussion

Because he bites.

Completely agree. American Football is going through tons of lawsuits and Soccer will too. And why is it they can't just have a time out from time to time? Does someone always have to fall writhing in pain (pretend or not) just to get their team a little breather? Let's get this sport into the new millennium. The referee's need some real help out there too. If this is the best sport the world has to offer then why doesn't it institute instant replay for some of the absolutely horribly officiated games? If this is really just the way the game always will be then... I think I'm missing something.

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We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...

The falling down is called flopping and it's used to get the ref to call a foul. Basketball players do it now too and it doesn't belong in the game. Using replay in-game for flopping would destroy the flow of both sports but the NBA does review such incidents post-game and hands down fines. I'm not sure how successful that program has been.

He shoud've. It would've made more sense than Messi getting it. Didn't win, didn't score the most goals, didn't have a great game throughout the tournament, wasn't the most exciting player... Won the Golden Ball? This is a FIFA thing which I don't care about, but the cynic in my can't help but notice. Golden Boot is the only minor award that matters to me and that's only because I'm of an age where it was a thing. No one presented Just Fontaine with an award for scoring 13 goals in 58.

As for the diving (flopping for our American cousins) I'm afraid it's just part of the game now. It used to be something which players did to get penalties or free kicks in good positions, but now it's all over the pitch and, sometimes, I'm all for it, because sometimes it's the only way to get a ref to give a foul. Especially when it comes to shirt pulling or holding. Of course, as you'll have seen in the world cup, it's also used as a tactic to disrupt play and the flow of the game.

The thing that really annoys me now, and it'll only get worse, is the constant appealling and barracking of the ref over every decision. The reason, of course, isn't necessarily to get the call your way, it's to apply pressure on the next call. And the one after that. If you've had three go against you and you complain, maybe the ref will think about giving the next one, maybe he won't. However, if you've already made him aware, each time, that that's now the third he's given against you, it plays on the mind and you're more likely to get the next one or have him not call one against you. It's simple psychology. The refs are human, constant barracking by players (while thousands of people area baying at you, plus millions on tv, plus the absolute slaughtering you'll get in the press if you're wrong and the knowledge that you're under scrutiny by the referees official in the stand marking how you do) means you're more likely to cave to pressure. So they add more pressure.

It'd all stop if the players stopped it and most of it would stop if the managers told them not to do it and fined those who did. Of course, a manager can be out of a job if he loses a few games, so he's unlikely to ask them to stop. Quite the opposite in some cases, I'm sure. The defence, of course, is that it's up to the ref to stop it and he should start showing cards. This is true, but if he doesnt' feel he has the backing of the refs, it won't even begin to happen.

I agree with you about the head injuries/concussions. I think I've seen more in the last 2 years than I can remember in the decade before. Maybe we're just more aware of it now, but the players shouldn't be allowed back on the pitch. I swear Zabaleta did Kramer last night, but Zabalets, Pereira and Mascherano have all taken injuries that should've had them substituted in this world cup. With the squads now and the number of subs on the bench for a game, it'd be easy enough to bring someone else on in their place, if only until a doctor has checked them out and given them the all clear back in the dressing room. I'd have them out of the game, but at least it'd be a start.

Lastly, no breaks. Breaks kill the game. Football is restrained chaos, but barely organised. The more breaks, the more organised it becomes.

Congratulations to Germany. The best team of the tournament won the tournament.

I'm not a betting man, but James Rodriguez was 100-1 to win the Golden Boot? I can't say I thought he would, but I'd have had him up there just behind the likes of Messi, Muller and Neymar. I can't believe the odds were so long. Well done to anyone who got on that.

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5-time MoFo Award winner.

I like a lot of your post HK. What do you think about adding a ref? A second ref would really help detour all the whining and stuff that drives you nuts. Because then the guy isn't alone anymore. One guy is simply not enough in my opinion. Do you have any idea how many ref's are at an American game? And they still don't get it right all the time. The way people are today, if we're waiting for the players to fix the sport then we'll be waiting long time I reckon. Now I don't follow this game. Do the rules ever get changed or tweaked? Because I think this sport could use it.

Why be against breaks? The players take hella breaks already. I see lots of guys standing around out there. How about just breaking the game into three periods? Then the actual on the field running around game time is shorter. You could still have plenty of chaos and your players will have a little more energy.

I enjoyed reading HK's post as well and it's true that diving/flopping did originate by forwards who believed they were being fouled without it being called. At this point though it's become a tactic on it's own and IMHO can be easily dealt with if the leagues choose to do so. Fitness is also a part of football so I don't see any time changes happening. Remember too that with some exception to midfielders not every player is moving all the time so they do get chances to rest somewhat.

PW, I'll come back and give my thoughts later.

There is another ref. He's known as "The Fourth Officiial" and, to this day, no one will be able to tell you what he does or what purpose he serves. Seriously.

I think football may well be coming into a new era. Up until recently, FIFA's thing has been that the game you see in the World Cup final is the same game you can play on your local pitches. The same as kids play at school. It's a ball, a couple of goals, and three officials. The more you add, the further it gets from that ideal. However, with the fourth official (in the Champion's League and Europa League there's also an official beside each goal. But tha's a UEFA thing I don't don't want to scramble your brain at this point) and, more importantly, goal line technology, it's already well on the way. I think there's a realisation that the old ideal isn't going to help football continue. Frankly, there's too much money to lose.

The other obstacle to it is, in many cases, the fans don't want to see it. They don't want video technology, they don't want extra refs, they don't want breaks or a different division of the time of a game.

It's seven, isn't it?

*EDIT* A point I meant to make here was that, in American football, it's all controlled bursts of action and you can place the officials with some certainty that, a) they'll be able to see what they're supposed to be looking at and, b) that they won't get in the way. Neither of these things, especially the second, are really possible to do in football. The fluid chaotic nature of the game and it's movements mean you can always be in the wrong place and, with more people on the pitch, it's more likely to happen and more often.

I think this is where we are atm with this. There's those who think this is just a necessary evil in order to get it right as often as possible. Then there's those who are willing to accept that people get it wrong and that they're doing their best. Also, that arguing about these things and having them go for you sometimes and against you at others, is part of what it's about.

I don't think anyone is. I was just saying that it could stop easily if the players decided not to do it.

Yes, things get changed and tweaked. The sprays you saw for the freekicks were new to everyone but the S.Americans, who'd been doing for a season or two already, but that was as a trial for the world cup I believe, and goal line technology is new, too. That started last season in the Premier League in England. 25 years ago they stopped the goalkeeper being able to pick up the ball from a pass (with the foot and intended) from his teammate. This was the speed the game up and stop teams from being able to run a game out more easily. Around the same time the tackle from behind was made illegal. This is to stop the more talented players being mown down by defenders.

I don't know if it was on the way anyway, but the end of van Basten's career at 28 caused great sadness and it was the constant tackles of this nature which curtailled one of the best players to play the game. I'd watch the whole thing because his skill was wonderful, but if you go to 5:41 in this vid you'll see the kind of tackle I mean. That'd almost certainly be a straight red card these days. Then, just a foul.



I don't want shorter game time. If anything, I'd be tempted to stop the clock as they do in american football every time the ball went out of play. Of course, this would probably mean that the game time would have to be shortened, so why bother.?

The best way I can think of to explain it would be to look at a Jackson Pollock and say, "why not give it some form? You could still have drips and stuff and it wouldn't have to look like anything, but just shape it a little." For some, that'd seem a perfectly reasonable request. But it wouldn't be a Pollock.

American football needs more than one ref because fouls can be committed by players away from the ball which basically doesn't happen on the pitch. Not sure how you can really prevent flopping without some use of replay as it can be very hard to tell at times.

Another great post HK and I totally understand the reference to being able to play the game anywhere. Here in America, Baseball has undergone a transition from the classic, traditional game to all sorts of tweaks and changes that many hardcore purity lovers said would never happen. But they do and they will probably continue because as you mentioned, there is simply too much money out there.

And to be honest, I have no idea how many ref's there are at a American game. If you count all the guys on the sidelines and the guys in the booths, there maybe as many as 20.

So are you going to watch any football this season, PW? Do you have a club side to follow in the MLS or are you going to follow a European team/league?

Yeah, we've got the Sounders FC, where Yedlin and Dempsey both play for here in Seattle. To be honest I was much bigger fan when I was younger. But as I grew up I just started having a hard time with a lot of the stuff that is just a part of the game and after a while I moved on to American Football, Baseball and quite a bit of Basketball too, before the Sonics were ripped away from us. I'll keep watching the World cup though. I'm a bigger fan of the world teams than local I guess.

What about the European leagues? Or is that included in local?

Do you live in Seattle PW? I have relatives over there and have been over a few times and love it. Been to see the Sounders and The Mariners a few times.

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Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

That's probably what I should try eh? If I could find like a local feed of a decent team over there and watch it for a bit, maybe even a season or two. I bet i'd love the game a lot more. America can just rip the soul right out of the kind of ideas you're talking about in your game. I bet a Sounders game here is nothing like it is over there. If I were to check out some European leagues or whatnot, I bet you could give me some pointers eh? Who's your team?

Yes indeed, been here my entire meager existence.

I'm a United fan (Manchester United) which is enough to get you instantly hated by most. There's even an extreme type of fan called an ABU (Anyone But United). We're at an interesting point in our history, atm.

However, I'd recommend looking at the EPL (English Premier League). the Bundesliga (The German League), La Liga (Spanish League) or Serie A (Italian League). I'm not sure how easy it is to see some games from any of these leagues. I think Fox is now showing EPL games live, so that shouldn't be a problem at all. They play the same game, but there's definite styles and ways of doing it.

Stop the thread now its over

^^ I like this guys style! ^^

Anywho, Man U seems like as good as team to follow as any. Who's your favorite player? I just bookmarked their website and will try to follow them if I can. I know they are on tv here a fair amount. As a matter of fact they were just here this weekend in Michigan. Was that what you guys call a 'friendly'? Or did that game actually count for something? I liked the highlights I saw, the passing was impressive. They moved the ball much better than several of the world teams that one could really tell just by watching that they didn't really play together all that much before the world cup.

Maybe we should start another thread before brightlikeme mails us some anthrax or something. Clearly his team must not have fared well during the cup, eh?