Multiple Bombings: World Trade Center/Pentagon

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Wow, you really made that analogy spring to life. I do think you're right...we do seem to react swiftly, and, partially as a result, harshly/crudely at times. I guess the reason I don't see us as being the same as some others is that I don't see us doing truly evil things. I see us making mistakes, but there's a difference.

Anyway, I do think this disaster will serve as a kick in the butt to remind us of what this country is all about, and what we can indeed lose if we don't stay awake from now on. Here's hoping Bush, and the rest of us, learn better from this.



I certainly don't. I think this will make such a thing less likely...because I think this event will lead to a systematic destruction of terrorists...and a terrorist running around trying to escape death is a terrorist with a lot less time and brainspace to plot attacks on freedom.

If we can mow down a lot of the terrorists in this world, I think events like this will decrease, thus making the likelihood of some huge war less likely. Then again, I might be thinking wishfully.



In Soviet America, you sue MPAA!
These acts already brought about the end of the world. The world ended Tuesday September 11th, 2001 and a new world was born the same day. The world as we know it ended and a new one in which everything will be forever different was born out of that death. Nothing will ever be the same, and in that sense the world already ended.
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Originally posted by TWTCommish
I certainly don't. I think this will make such a thing less likely...because I think this event will lead to a systematic destruction of terrorists...and a terrorist running around trying to escape death is a terrorist with a lot less time and brainspace to plot attacks on freedom.
Do you think the terrorists are going to sit and taking a bombing from your planes? Cause not they will hit you where it hurts. They may not be able to fight your army but they already proved themselves to be well trained and organised.



Well, it's a more figurative war. Yes, there is a war coming, but no, it's not really against a specific country, unless someplace like Afghanistan is helping someone like Bin Laden out knowingly.



Originally posted by OG-
No ones going to war anytime soon because theres no one to go to war with.
I don't know where you've been but WE HAVE declared war when necessary and however necessary. Bin Laden or whatever the heck the a**hole's name is deserves to go to hell and we will fight him or whomever are the cowardly terrorists in this horrifific event. I'm sorry OG but if you think this is just a simple terrorist bombing and it will be forgotton you are totally wrong. This is the start of something major in the world. A crisis noone will ever forget.



A war is certainly coming, but it will not be what Americans expect. No more easy Gulf Scudding, sorry. It will be a very long war, 3 years is a conservative estimate. The first phase has already started, as military materiel is currently being airlifted to the Punjab region of Pakistan. From there, the US will launch attacks on the Afghan cities of Galdek & Medan, as well as Kabul & Kalalabad, Afghanistan's principal cities. According to sources here, the US is also going to attack Iraq, and Israel, it seems, is already attempting to move its armed forces into Turkey. British forces are also on the move, I believe, towards Oman.
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In Soviet America, you sue MPAA!
Originally posted by jrs1013
I'm sorry OG but if you think this is just a simple terrorist bombing and it will be forgotton you are totally wrong. This is the start of something major in the world. A crisis noone will ever forget.
I don't think that, and if you had read my post a few posts back you wouldn't think that I thought that either.

I don't think anyone has really been reading my posts on this thread. I've said multiple times this is something big, and that it is the start of something even bigger. I've posted links where people involved with what happened on Tuesday had conversations with many other people saying this was just the begining and next they'd be punishing other countries as well. The US isn't the only country these terrorists have a problem with. They have a problem with any country that allows its citizens to sin without repent, which is almost every country in Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, North America and of course Australia.

But I don't think the US is going to war. Not a World War at least. Call it a war against terrorism if you will, but a World War? I wouldn't think so. Maybe you could call it that because it will happening on the other side of the world.

The US simply can't go to war because they don't know who to go to war with. I have no doubt in my mind that many of Bin Laden's followers aren't already living in the United States. I have no doubt in my mind that they aren't living in many nations all over the world. Since I believe this to be the case, then the US can not declare war on all of those countries unknowingly harboring those criminals.

Yes the US will do whatever it deems necessary to whomever it deems responisble or accountable, but I wouldn't call it a war. Maybe I'm just naive like that.



I think we can call it a war...just a less than traditional war. And I think Pigsnie is right: this will likely still be going on by the time Bush's term has ended.



A letter I got in e-mail today....


Dan,

Just I got so worried about too much WAR/MACHO talks on radio/TV/street, I
got
this email from an Indonesian showing another important view. I think we
should
use more brain than gut or muscle handling it. Or, just imagine what if
the 19
bad guys didn't use airplane bombs, but released poison gas at different
spots
in New York ???



> Thanks to Fred Hellerman for this item
>
> A different take on things...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RONNIE GILBERT" [email protected]
> rongil@ mindspring.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001
>
> Dear Friends,
> The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim Ansary. Tamim is an
> Afghani-American writer. He is also one of the most brilliant people I
know
> in this life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I listen. Here is
his
> take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in.
> Gary T.
>
> * * * * I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back
to
> the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this
would
> mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this
> atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What
else
> can we do?"
>
> Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the
belly
> to do what must be done."
>
> And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am
> from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never
> lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will
> listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.
>
> I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no
doubt in
> my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.
I
> agree that something must be done about those monsters.
>
> But the Taliban and Bin Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the
> government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics
who
> took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a
plan.
> When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think
Hitler.
> And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the
> concentration camps."
>
> It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this
atrocity.
> They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if
someone
> would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rat's nest of
> international thugs holed up in their country.
>
> Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The
> answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A
few
> years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled
> orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food.
>
> There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these
widows
> alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms
were
> all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the
Afghan
> people have not overthrown the Taliban.
>
> We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone
> Age.Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already.
>
> Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses?
> Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their
> hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine
> and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that.
>
> New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at
least
> get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban
eat,
> only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe
> the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too
> fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and
dropping
> bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this
> horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the
> Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this
time
>
> So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true
> fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with
> ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to
be
> done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as
> needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing
innocent
> people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the
table
> is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die
fighting
> their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout.
>
> It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to
Afghanistan,
> we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The
> conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim
nationsjust
> stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war
between
> Islam and the West.
>
> And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants.
> That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right
> there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem
> ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and
the
> West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in
those
> lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even
better
> from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the West
> would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and
> millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?
>
> Bin Laden does. Anyone else?
>
> Tamim Ansary



I ain't gettin' in no fryer!
WOW...that's a really different look at things. WOW...
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Just saw this on the telly, the US wont speak to the Taliban after the Taliban says they want a meeting. I think this is wrong. The US doesnt seem to want to make a distintion between the goverment of Afghan & the poor sad Afghan people. (Pigsnie just gave me a book on the way they live, they have almost nothing, only the Koran.) I guess the US just wants to go BOMBS AWAY, no matter if they have Bin Laden or not.
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Originally posted by PigsnieLite
Just saw this on the telly, the US wont speak to the Taliban after the Taliban says they want a meeting. I think this is wrong. The US doesnt seem to want to make a distintion between the goverment of Afghan & the poor sad Afghan people. (Pigsnie just gave me a book on the way they live, they have almost nothing, only the Koran.) I guess the US just wants to go BOMBS AWAY, no matter if they have Bin Laden or not.
Where did you hear this? I haven't heard any such thing. And yes, we do make a distinction...I don't know where you're getting that from. The distinction we are not making is between people who support the terrorists, or (MAYBE!) those who sit idly by next door, knowing what's going on without care.

I don't think any difference should be made in the former case. If someone funded these terrorists, they are no better than those who flew that plane personally into the WTC. The latter is different, however. And yes, they are poor...probably because of their funky government.



Pigsnie says the problem with Afghan is the terrorists do not live in military bases, this is a dumb idea the US spreads around. Most of the terrorists in Afghan live in villages all over, so to kill them, youd have to kill the whole village too. Nice. And I saw the US rejection of taliban talks on the BBC. But Pigsnie says you should check NY times website. The storys there.



Originally posted by PigsnieLite
Pigsnie says the problem with Afghan is the terrorists do not live in military bases, this is a dumb idea the US spreads around. Most of the terrorists in Afghan live in villages all over, so to kill them, youd have to kill the whole village too. Nice. And I saw the US rejection of taliban talks on the BBC. But Pigsnie says you should check NY times website. The storys there.
Who in the US spreads it around? And I don't see why you're assuming a bomb is the only way to kill a terrorist.