The future of the Middle East

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I am having a nervous breakdance
Yassir Arafat is dead and the undisputable palestinian leader is gone. The future of Israel and Palestine is very uncertain. Arafat personified Palestine and the struggle for independence in that he was both the President of Palestine, Chairman of PLO (the organisation that includes nearly all palestinian parties except Hamas and Islamic Jihad), plus leader of al-Fatah, the palestinian liberation movement he himself founded in 1959.

Arafat was responsible both of keeping the peace process in Israel/Palestine going as well as for it going nowhere (the latter responsiblilty he brotherly shared with equals as Ariel Sharon). His bloody past as guerilla leader approving of terrorism made him hard or impossible to accept for the israelis. But the Oslo Agreement in 1993 was the fruit of visions focusing on peace primarily and on land and history secondly. Arafat together with israelis Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres had the will to do this and created hope for the area. The active role that America played in the realization of such an agreement was if not decisive, then at least of utter importance.

So, my question is: what will Bush do to realize what he says are his visions for the Middle East? The Iraq invasion is said to be a step on the way towards stability, democracy and peace in the area. As someone who believes he has the knowledge enough about the complexity of the Middle East to start a war Bush should also be aware of that the Israel/Palestine situation holds the key to the solution of the whole problem.

Since Arafat held most offices and positions himself in the palestinian administration and there is no obvious successor, there will be a number of successors to fill his shoes. Most of them will probably be close friends or sidekicks of Arafat and more or less continue the path he started on. But the new probable leader of al-Fatah will be Farouk Kaddoumi who has never acknowledged the Oslo Agreement and because of this still lives in exile in Tunis. He is probably determined to fight Israel to the last drop of blood.

What is clear is that with so many palestinian leaders there will be many different ideas on how to lead the way into the future and what the goal of Palestine is. It will create fractions within the palestine movement of which some may choose to continue the armed war against Israel and perhaps also against competing palestinian sub-organizations. The ideal thing would be a strong uniting palestinian leader that the majority of the palestinians like and that Israel finds acceptable, but someone like that doesn't seem to be anywhere to find. There has been a few suggestions but some of them have been considered to be America-friendly "puppets", and that would surely be the starting signal for more violence.

The next few months in Israel/Palestine I think will be crucial. And I think it is necessary for USA to play an active role from the start if we'll ever see some hope for a more peaceful Middle East. But so far I haven't seen anything from Bush that indicates a strong will to make a difference. It shouldn't really be that much to think about. Sure, playing a moderating role in the conflict would probably annoy the pro-Israel christian right who played an important role in getting him re-elected. But you can only be re-elected once and Bush no more has to do things to please certain voter groups. I know he views Reagan as his idol and Reagan used his second term to make peace with the Soviet Union, so this speaks for the fact that Bush will do something similar. I think Bush's first term was influenced a lot by the administration wanting to secure the 2004 election. Now, they want to make history. And here's your chance, Georgie boy!
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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but
now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.



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Originally Posted by Piddzilla
I know he views Reagan as his idol and Reagan used his second term to make peace with the Soviet Union, so this speaks for the fact that Bush will do something similar.
Peace with the Soviet Union was a priority for America and involved America directly, whereas this situation is nowhere near as threatening to America so I think is a different situation altogether.

Originally Posted by Piddzilla
I think Bush's first term was influenced a lot by the administration wanting to secure the 2004 election. Now, they want to make history. And here's your chance, Georgie boy!
Well America needs to repair some ties with the UN I think, more external involvement in the Middle-east is not really a good move for this repairing. For both the Iraq and Afganistan wars America could justify their motives for involvement, these justifications were obviously challenged by many parties but that's not my point. I think in this case America cannot justify any involvement at all, I also don't think it would be wanted, who is America to say what should or should not happen in the Midde-east?

This conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is their business and the peace talks have begun and America arriving to try to aid the process may cause a negative response in that America thinks that they cannot sort out something by themselves.

America is already involved in Iraq and Afganistan currently so why should they involve themselves in yet another conflict that doesn't concern them? Perhaps the UN could take action on America's suggestion, but involvement from the Americans would come across in a negative way. Obviously time will tell about the new Palestinian leader but at least lets wait and see what they have to say before any rash moves.



I am having a nervous breakdance
Originally Posted by SpoOkY
Peace with the Soviet Union was a priority for America and involved America directly, whereas this situation is nowhere near as threatening to America so I think is a different situation altogether.
Compared to Iraq, you mean?

Well America needs to repair some ties with the UN I think, more external involvement in the Middle-east is not really a good move for this repairing. For both the Iraq and Afganistan wars America could justify their motives for involvement, these justifications were obviously challenged by many parties but that's not my point. I think in this case America cannot justify any involvement at all, I also don't think it would be wanted, who is America to say what should or should not happen in the Midde-east?
Involvement does not necessarily need to involve violence. As I said, America was playing a signigicant role in the Oslo Agreement in 1993. There is nothing that says that America can't play that big of a role again.

This conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is their business and the peace talks have begun and America arriving to try to aid the process may cause a negative response in that America thinks that they cannot sort out something by themselves.
Again, America has played a great mediating part in the peace talks. Personally, I think that without USA's influence, there will not be any peace in the region. It's only a question of how USA use its influence.

America is already involved in Iraq and Afganistan currently so why should they involve themselves in yet another conflict that doesn't concern them? Perhaps the UN could take action on America's suggestion, but involvement from the Americans would come across in a negative way. Obviously time will tell about the new Palestinian leader but at least lets wait and see what they have to say before any rash moves.
I don't know if you are saying that the conflicts in Iraq and Afganistan don't concern USA.

Anyway, USA is allready involved in the Israel/Palestine conflict. They have used their veto in the UN again and again over the years to stop sanctions against Israel because of their methods concerning their occupation of Palestine.

George Bush has said that the motivation for invading Iraq was to stabilize the region and to bring democracy to the Middle East. USA and Israel are allies and as long as USA is allowing Israel to do whatever they want with the palestinians, there will never be peace and democracy in that region.

Also, while Bush has not got the support of the jewish community within USA, he has a massive support from the israelis. Why not use this influence and do something good? I don't see why a war in Iraq and another one in Afganistan (and possibly soon one more in Iran) are okay with you, while mediating for peace in Israel is a bad thing.



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Originally Posted by Piddzilla
Again, America has played a great mediating part in the peace talks. Personally, I think that without USA's influence, there will not be any peace in the region. It's only a question of how USA use its influence.
Why does the USA have to be the only answer, why do they have to have any influence? why always America? The UN is capable of working with in this area by themselves aren't they? Just because of previous success in 1993 does that mean that America will solve everything, because in reality the situation is still really still bad today 11 years later isn't it?

Originally Posted by Piddzilla
there will never be peace and democracy in that region.
Democracy is not always the answer, while it may work for a lot of countries why do you assume that democracy will automatically bring peace to the middle-east. A book concerning the situation in Vietnam in 1954 illustrated my point about involvement, stating "They want one day to be much the same as another, they don't want our white skins around telling them what they want" - A foreign correspondant.

So why must America have the best answer for the Middle-east why can't these two countries with the help of the UN (representing a large proportion of the world) be successful?

Originally Posted by Piddzilla
I don't see why a war in Iraq and another one in Afganistan (and possibly soon one more in Iran) are okay with you, while mediating for peace in Israel is a bad thing.
It depends on if this mediating contains any bias concerning the alliance you mentioned yourself between America and Israel. I never said mediating for peace was a bad thing, but USA personnally becoming involved and applying their views and ideals to a situation that doesn't directly involve them can have a negative impact.



I am having a nervous breakdance
Originally Posted by SpoOkY
Why does the USA have to be the only answer, why do they have to have any influence? why always America? The UN is capable of working with in this area by themselves aren't they? Just because of previous success in 1993 does that mean that America will solve everything, because in reality the situation is still really still bad today 11 years later isn't it?
It is really bad, yes. But that does not mean that it's a bad idea to go back to the negotiating table. Arafat was one of the reasons to why it went to hell. Now he is gone and that improves the chances of Israel coming back into negotiations. But USA, Israels closest ally, can improve the chances even more.

It doesn't always have to be USA, but it just happens to be the most powerful nation in the world and that makes a difference. Of course, UN should be able to play a significant part, but unfortunately the old-fashioned veto system in the Security Council takes away most of UN:s efficiency. I think that the European Union together with USA could do good things as mediators. The europeans are traditionally seen as friends of the palestinians while the americans as friends of the israelis. I would love it if someone could persuade Colin Powell to take on the job as a negotiator. Now when he has quit his previous job and is no longer working with the Bush administration he would be a good choice for all parties.

And I am not saying that America should solve the problem, only Israel and Palestine can do that. But someone has to bring the parties together, and USA may have the power to do that.

Democracy is not always the answer, while it may work for a lot of countries why do you assume that democracy will automatically bring peace to the middle-east. A book concerning the situation in Vietnam in 1954 illustrated my point about involvement, stating "They want one day to be much the same as another, they don't want our white skins around telling them what they want" - A foreign correspondant.

So why must America have the best answer for the Middle-east why can't these two countries with the help of the UN (representing a large proportion of the world) be successful?
Well, that will have to stand for that correspondant. And don't you think that UN would demand democracy in the region? I would think so. And I am convinced that both palestinians and israelis would love it if they could go outside without the risk of being killed by military or terrorists.

You can't compare USA:s involvement in Vietnam with what I would like to see in Israel. It's a totally different issue.

It depends on if this mediating contains any bias concerning the alliance you mentioned yourself between America and Israel. I never said mediating for peace was a bad thing, but USA personnally becoming involved and applying their views and ideals to a situation that doesn't directly involve them can have a negative impact.
Bush made it clear that some of the reasons to why Iraq was invaded were related to the Middle East situation. And that's why I would like to see what he is prepared to do to change the Middle East situation. Because, as I said before, Iraq isn't the key to that problem. Israel/Palestine is.

So it is in USA:s best interest to achieve stability in this particular region, and trying to achieve that by upsetting palestinian leaders that dispose of professional guerilla fighters/terrorists would not be a very good idea. And I think both USA and Israel could agree on that. So I don't think that if USA in fact takes an active role in all of this, I don't think they will be so uncareful that they risk an escalation of the violence. All parties are gained by peace.

What I guess is troubling Bush is the possible responsibility he feels towards the christian right that wants Israel to be left alone to do whatever they want to the palestinians. That's why I think that Powell could be a good idea. Sending someone that is no longer officially connected to the government and Bush might be a good way to lead the attraction away from the Bush administration. That might calm the christian right down a little, as well as the palestinians who see Bush as their enemy.



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Originally Posted by Piddzilla
It doesn't always have to be USA, but it just happens to be the most powerful nation in the world and that makes a difference. Of course, UN should be able to play a significant part, but unfortunately the old-fashioned veto system in the Security Council takes away most of UN:s efficiency.
The fact that the USA is the most powerful nation in the world does mean they can institute peace talks and mediate, but at the same time they would be the most intimidating party at the table. Whereas the UN would be a more impartial party to a mediation process, that's all I'm saying.

Originally Posted by Piddzilla
That's why I think that Powell could be a good idea. Sending someone that is no longer officially connected to the government and Bush might be a good way to lead the attraction away from the Bush administration. That might calm the christian right down a little, as well as the palestinians who see Bush as their enemy.
Well what you're thinking does seem beneficial but when you say things like 'might calm the christian right' and 'Powell could be a good idea', while these might be possible solutions to make it better still it is unlikely to work out this perfectly. Ok USA could help the situation, but I'm just saying that there is greater risk involved due to current opposition to Bush already existing and the anti-american sentiment felt due to previous American involvement (think of the terroist organisations that targetted America).



I am having a nervous breakdance
I agree. The credibility of USA has not been improved in the arab world over the last couple of years. And that may have an effect on future peace talks. But I still think that a peace agreement will be hard to achieve without any involvement from USA. To not let USA in on the talks because of the reasons you're mentioning is like saying that Palestine and Israel will never be able to reach peace simply because they hate each other's guts. Because they do. And that's why both the European Union and USA should participate, and why not representants for UN as well. And I don't think Israel will do anything without USA being involved.



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Originally Posted by Piddzilla
And that's why both the European Union and USA should participate, and why not representatives from the UN as well.
Perhaps a group effort is the best answer then, with USA being present but not taking a leading role in the peace agreement as they did previously with President Clinton stepping in. Then everything can be sorted out in full with global input and all sides having their say and coming to a real agreement that can be longlasting and satisfy both Israel and Palestine. That's just my viewpoint and you've got yours, nice discussion by the way, even though it was just the two of us



I'm actually writing a paper on this topic and I will have it read within the next 2 days, i'll post it here even though its going to be a long ass paper (im aiming at 13 pages)
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Sounds interesting......hey 2 days later is today um I wonder if you can actually have a post that spans over several pages.