The MoFo Westerns List
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Howdy, Buckaroos and MoFos.
Some of the first images ever put to celluloid were of cowboys and bandits. From Edwin S. Porter's The Great Train Robbery (1903) and the Silent era Westerns to the advent of sound and the first master of the genre, John Ford, the Western has fueled the cinematic imagination. By the '40s and '50s Westerns had become a staple of Hollywood, even if too often they were thought of as B-movie fare by the Studio heads. When television hit pop culture Westerns were arguably the most popular genre on the airwaves, but rather than kill their cinematic predecessors it helped evolve the movie Western into something even grander. By the 1960s it was time for a Revisionist take on the now well-known themes, led by Sergio Leone in Europe and Sam Peckinpah in the U.S. of A. In the blockbuster era that began in the mid-'70s and exploded in the '80s Westerns were a genre that fell largely out of favor, but they endured, winning Best Picture Oscars and inviting every new generation of filmmaker and visionaries from all over the globe to make the genre their own. With larger than life movie stars from John Wayne and Randolph Scott to Clint Eastwood and Charles Bronson, the heroes, villains, anti-heroes, and Native Americans, the gunfights, pioneers, lawmen, and the lawless, all against the expansive landscape of the American frontier, Westerns are an important and lasting part of cinema. Time for a Westerns movie roundup, I reckon. The subjects change, but the rules remain (mostly) the same:
*new eligibility wrinkle There is a change we are going to try for this list. Unlike release dates genres are arguable things, therefor the IMDb listing will not be the final word in eligibility. In the previous genre list for Horror movies, several canonical titles (including Jaws) were deemed ineligible simply because the IMDb didn't list them as Horror. In an attempt to if not eliminate then at least legislate this issue, any title you find that is either listed as a Western and you don't think should qualify or more likely titles you believe are Westerns but the IMDb has buried the lead, please either message me or post them here in this thread. This is intended to be a transparent process fueled by discussion. We'll see if it gets more contentious than a sack full of rattle snakes? :) The IMDb ain't perfect. It's a tool, and as MoFos we can use it as we see fit. I would rather have informed discussions about what does and doesn't constitute genre than blindly follow a gigantic, sometimes flawed database. The number of ballots and votes will determine if this list tops out at a hundred or fifty. So saddle up! |
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TOTAL (67) AgrippinaX ahwell Austruck Captain Spaulding Captain T Chypmunk Citizen Rules Cobpyth CosmicRunaway cricket dadgumblah Daniel M doubledenim edarsenal Fabulous Frightened Inmate No. 2 gandalf26 gbgoodies GulfportDoc HashtagBrownies hell_storm2004 Hey Fredrick Holden Pike honeykid Iroquois Jabs John-Connor jiraffejustin Kaplan Loner mark f matt72582 Miss Vicky modelshop MovieBuffering MovieMeditation NedStark09 neiba Nope1172 Nostromo87 OHForums Olivier Parent PahaK Pussy Galore rauldc14 re93animator resopamenic The Rodent the samoan lawyer sarah f Seanc Sedai 7thson Siddon Skepsis93 Sunomis Swan Tacitus Taz Thursday Next TheUsualSuspect Wigram WrinkledMind Wyldesyde19 ynwtf Yoda Zotis |
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Eligible Let the Corpses Tan (2017) There Will Be Blood (2007) Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948) Lone Star (1995) Ineligible The Beguiled (1971 & 2017) Drugstore Cowboy (1989) The General (1926) The Great Race (1965) Midnight Cowboy (1969) No Country for Old Men (2007) An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge (1961) Pure Country (1992) Currently Up for Debate The IMDb lists all of these next categories and titles as Westerns... Western Comedies and Parodies ARE Eligible Just because it's funny doesn't mean you can't vote for it. This includes titles such as but not limited to Blazing Saddles, Destry Rides Again, Cat Ballou,¡Three Amigos!, Rustlers' Rhapsody, Goin’ South, McLintock!, Apple Dumpling Gang, The Apple Dumpling Gang Rides Again, Hot Lead and Cold Feet, The Shakiest Gun in the West, The Paleface, Son of Paleface, Heller in Pink Tights, The Frisco Kid, Lightning Jack, "The Cherokee Kid", A Million Ways to Die in the West, The Ridiculous 6, Support Your Local Sheriff!, Support Your Local Gunfighter, The Ballad of Buster Scruggs, My Name is Nobody, They Call Me Trinity, Trinity is Still My Name, Wagons East, Almost Heroes, The Adventures of Bullwhip Griffin, Zorro: The Gay Blade, Lust in the Dust, The Villain, Shanghai Noon, Shanghai Knights, Waterhole #3, Rango, City Slickers, and Carry On Cowboy. Westerns Set Places Other than the United States ARE Eligible Films that contain the same themes and tropes of the "American" Western but are set in parts of the world that did not become the U.S. of A. are fair game. These can include but are not limited to such titles as Quigley Down Under, Ned Kelly, Australia, The Castaway Cowboy, The Mask of Zorro, Bandidas, Duck, You Sucker/A Fistful of Dynamite, Viva Zapata!, El Topo, Hidalgo, The Proposition, Sukiyaki Western Django, The Man from Snowy River, Walker, Death Hunt and The Good, the Bad and the Weird. Westerns Musicals or Animated Westerns ARE Eligible Singing and dancing or animation aimed primarily at children are not excluded from the genre. Some of the qualifying titles include Oklahoma!, Annie Get Your Gun, Calamity Jane, Paint Your Wagon, The Harvey Girls, Love Me Tender, The One and Only, Genuine, Original Family Band, Rango, Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron, Home on the Range, and An American Tail: Fivel Goes West. Westerns Set in the Modern Day ARE Eligible Potentially debatable in genre terms to purists, but films set in the 20th or 21st century that have the same themes, archetypes, structure, and settings are potentially Westerns. For some examples, the IMDb lists all of these as Westerns: Giant, Hud, Junior Bonner, The Misfits, The Lusty Men, Treasure of the Sierra Madre, 8 Seconds, My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys, Lonely Are the Brave, Bad Day at Black Rock, The Rider, Little Woods, Old Yeller, Coogan's Bluff, The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada, Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, Comes a Horseman, The Electric Horseman, Extreme Prejudice, Thunderheart, Wanda Nevada, All the Pretty Horses, Billy Jack, Bronco Billy, The Hi-Lo Country, Hell or High Water, Pocket Money, and El Camino Christmas. Genre Benders Including Western Elements ARE Eligible This will be the most debatable subset, but films that blend multiple genres including Science Fiction may be included if one of those genres is very clearly the Western. For example the IMDb lists these titles as Westerns: Cowboys & Aliens, Back to the Future Part III, Westworld, The Dark Tower, Dust Devil, Jonah Hex, and Wild Wild West. Unless or until any title is debated and discussed, they should be considered eligible. The genre merits of individual titles are always up for debate, but in general it should be understood that comic, foreign, musical, and modern day Westerns are eligible. Whether you choose to include them on your ballot or not is a matter of personal taste, not eligibility. If you have a question about a specific film you don't see listed above that you think warrants inclusion, either message Holden Pike privately or post it in this thread. But for the sake of brevity and sanity, let's not debate titles for the sake of debating them. If you have a title you want on your ballot that you are unclear whether or not it is eligible, please bring it forward. If you're only asking for the sake of argument and it's nothing you would even want to vote for let's just leave it be, Pilgrims. |
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Yahoo!
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I don’t love Westerns, but I’m still excited for this list as I will get to hopefully watch some good ones!
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Kewl.
One question - where do you find the primary genres for a fillum on IMDb? |
Originally Posted by Chypmunk (Post 2047608)
Kewl.
One question - where do you find the primary genres for a fillum on IMDb? On the app, its a few lines below 'Storyline' section. Its also usually right under the title. |
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Originally Posted by Chypmunk (Post 2047608)
Kewl.
One question - where do you find the primary genres for a fillum on IMDb? |
Originally Posted by the samoan lawyer (Post 2047609)
On the app, its a few lines below 'Storyline' section. Its also usually right under the title.
I don't recall ever seeing anything that stipulated what the top three genres are for a film on the website :shrug: |
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With a full 6 month watch period, I'd like to see us do a bunch of Western HoFs:). Maybe even done by eras like Siddon did with the Comedy HoFs. That would be fun AND help support this Countdown!
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Originally Posted by Citizen Rules (Post 2047613)
With a full 6 month watch period, I'd like to see us do a bunch of Western HoFs:). Maybe even done by eras like Siddon did with the Comedy HoFs. That would be fun AND help support this Countdown!
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Originally Posted by ahwell (Post 2047614)
For sure, just brought that up in the thread.
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I see a few already on IMDB that say Western, but might be questionable. Would it be easier to send you a list of over 25, that way you can disqualify one, and have a replacement?
Even when I use the "Advanced" IMDB search, and click "Western" filter, some movies don't even have "Western" in the genre, but might be considered one. |
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Originally Posted by Chypmunk (Post 2047608)
Kewl.
One question - where do you find the primary genres for a fillum on IMDb? If you scroll further down the page you'll find all the genres the IMDb currently has it listed as, after the cast list and between Tagline and Motion Picture Rating. |
Originally Posted by matt72582 (Post 2047619)
I see a few already on IMDB that say Western, but might be questionable. Would it be easier to send you a list of over 25, that way you can disqualify one, and have a replacement?
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Originally Posted by matt72582 (Post 2047619)
I see a few already on IMDB that say Western, but might be questionable. Would it be easier to send you a list of over 25, that way you can disqualify one, and have a replacement?
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Will partial ballots be accepted or must it be the full 25? (Forgive me if that’s already been addressed and I just missed it.)
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Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 2047620)
On the desktop version of IMDb it's under the title, next to the running time.
If you scroll further down the page you'll find all the genres the IMDb currently has it listed as, after the cast list and between Tagline and Motion Picture Rating. |
Hype! I'm gonna try to make a special point to catch up on a lot of Westerns, because I really like the genre.
Loving the art style for this countdown already, too. :up: |
Originally Posted by Citizen Rules (Post 2047623)
Why would you do that? Then you're allowing someone else to choose for you. Why not just ask the host if a certain movie qualifies and if it doesn't then you pick another one.
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Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 2047628)
Hype! I'm gonna try to make a special point to catch up on a lot of Westerns, because I really like the genre.
Loving the art style for this countdown already, too. :up: |
Originally Posted by matt72582 (Post 2047631)
Did you ever see the one we talked about? I know I announced when it was coming on TV. If not, just a reminder :)
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Originally Posted by Chypmunk (Post 2047627)
The three under the title are just the first three from the Genres tag which is in alphabetical order though. That's always been my assumption anyway - as far as I know they're not indicative of the primary genres of the film? Happy to be proved wrong if you have a quick example that differs from what I've said even if that does rule out films like Rio Lobo or Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid.
With a desktop computer if one scrolls down the page the genre tags are listed like this: Question for mobile users: Can you see those 4 tags on your mobile? |
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 2047633)
Refresh my memory?
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Originally Posted by matt72582 (Post 2047630)
He wouldn't be choosing - I listed all of them in order.
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Originally Posted by Citizen Rules (Post 2047636)
Well if you had some that didn't qualify and more than enough to use as replacements, then a choice would have to be made as to which replacement got used.
It wouldn't - I ranked them all. So if one is eliminated, the one after replaces it, and the others go up a notch, as opposed to going back and forth via PM, especially considering Holden probably is going to be very busy. |
Originally Posted by matt72582 (Post 2047637)
It wouldn't - I ranked them all. So if one is eliminated, the one after replaces it, and the others go up a notch, as opposed to going back and forth via PM, especially considering Holden probably is going to be very busy.
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Originally Posted by matt72582 (Post 2047635)
The Ox-Bow Incident
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Even though western isn't my favorite genre there's surely enough films I like to submit a full ballot for this one. I won't be going overboard with watching these but with this much time I'll probably see few dozen.
Originally Posted by Citizen Rules (Post 2047613)
With a full 6 month watch period, I'd like to see us do a bunch of Western HoFs:). Maybe even done by eras like Siddon did with the Comedy HoFs. That would be fun AND help support this Countdown!
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Re: The MoFo Westerns List
Originally Posted by Citizen Rules (Post 2047634)
Originally Posted by Chypmunk (Post 2047627)
The three under the title are just the first three from the Genres tag which is in alphabetical order though. That's always been my assumption anyway - as far as I know they're not indicative of the primary genres of the film? Happy to be proved wrong if you have a quick example that differs from what I've said even if that does rule out films like Rio Lobo or Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid.
With a desktop computer if one scrolls down the page the genre tags are listed like this: Question for mobile users: Can you see those 4 tags on your mobile? |
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Yeah I'm not a big fan of the era HOFs but either personally which is why I haven't joined one, but keep going people!
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Well I just tallied it up and I’ve seen 10 Westerns total... I only really want to vote for 5 of them so yes we need to get those Hall of Fames going!
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Originally Posted by pahaK (Post 2047646)
...I'd probably prefer generic ones over eras. Admittedly I haven't done any era based genre HoFs but I'm little worried that nominations end up being so very similar this way.
Originally Posted by rauldc14 (Post 2047649)
Yeah I'm not a big fan of the era HOFs but either personally which is why I haven't joined one, but keep going people!
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Originally Posted by Miss Vicky (Post 2047624)
Will partial ballots be accepted or must it be the full 25? (Forgive me if that’s already been addressed and I just missed it.)
But yes, ballots of ten+ will be accepted. Still shoot for 25. :) |
OK, let's see how this goes....
Eligibility Debate Midnight Cowboy https://media.giphy.com/media/xsF2IV4wr39UQ/giphy.gif Here is our first title up for debate. John Schlesinger's Midnight Cowboy (1969) is famously the only X-rated movie to win Oscar's Best Picture. For those who may only be passingly familiar, it follows the (then) present day Joe Buck (John Voight) who leaves his troubles in a dusty Texas town to try his luck at becoming a male prostitute in Manhattan targeting rich women who want to ride a cowboy. It's not as easy as he imagines and he winds up befriending an ostracized hustler named "Ratzo" Rizzo (Dustin Hoffman) who attempts to guide the niave cowpoke through the harsh urban landscape. The IMDb lists it as a Drama, Western I don't think there is much debate about the drama part, but for me Western is misplaced. Joe Buck is certainly drawn from some of the Western archetype, or at least that is what is being mocked and played against, and he definitely dresses like Roy Rogers, but other than that level and having Cowboy in the title, in genre terms I don't see that it fits. Structurally and thematically I don't see it as a Western. But what do you all think? Is it enough of a Western to be included, or so tangentially a Western it should be excluded? |
Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 2047654)
I am OK with accepting ballots of ten or more. But you can't turn those in super early. There are six months until the deadline. Don't admit defeat already, try and watch more Westerns.
It's just that Westerns are very hit or miss for me and in about 30 years of movie watching I've only come across a dozen or so that I've enjoyed. I hope to be proven wrong but I don't think 6 months is going to make a huge difference in that number. |
Originally Posted by Miss Vicky (Post 2047662)
I will. :)
It's just that Westerns are very hit or miss for me and in about 30 years of movie watching I've only come across a dozen or so that I've enjoyed. I hope to be proven wrong but I don't think 6 months is going to make a huge difference in that number. |
Originally Posted by Miss Vicky (Post 2047662)
I will. :)
It's just that Westerns are very hit or miss for me and in about 30 years of movie watching I've only come across a dozen or so that I've enjoyed. I hope to be proven wrong but I don't think 6 months is going to make a huge difference in that number. |
If Midnight Cowboy is a western so is Dr. Strangelove.
https://external-content.duckduckgo....3D1&f=1&nofb=1 |
Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 2047663)
If you name what your top five or so are I bet some MoFos could point you in the direction of similar titles you have not seen but may groove to. List a handful you dislike, too, so we know what we're aiming for.
3:10 to Yuma (2007) Dances With Wolves The Quick and the Dead Django Unchained Open Range Dislike: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford My Darling Clementine The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly True Grit (2010) Little Big Man Blazing Saddles
Originally Posted by Citizen Rules (Post 2047665)
Have you seen all the westerns made by your favorite actors? I think that would be something to try.
I do need to rewatch the Victor Mature ones though because I can't remember which ones I liked and which I didn't, aside from Clementine. |
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No to Midnight Cowboy for me, although I've only seen it once but didn't think it to be much of a Western.
Regardless, even if it was eligible, there's much better things to vote for :) |
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Yeah Victor Mature must have made a bunch of westerns. I just seen him in one a few weeks ago but can't remember the name of it. I really should keep a movie log:p
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Originally Posted by Citizen Rules (Post 2047653)
It's just an idea. Mainly I'd like to see 3 Western HoFs each under 2 months long so that the third HoF is completed before the voting deadline is up on the Countdown.
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Never really considered Midnight Cowboy a Western myself.
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Originally Posted by Miss Vicky (Post 2047672)
Top Five Favorites:
3:10 to Yuma (2007) Dances With Wolves The Quick and the Dead Django Unchained Open Range Dislike: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford My Darling Clementine The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly True Grit (2010) Little Big Man Blazing Saddles |
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Midnight Cowboy is not a western in my opinion either. I don't even know which I find more shocking; it tagged as a western or it being given X-rating originally.
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@Holden Pike
Re: Your Post Comment Yep. I've seen it a couple of times. Will probably vote for it. Re: Midnight Cowboy: I've only seen it once and it was awhile ago. I thought it was a good movie, but I wouldn't call it a Western. |
Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 2047681)
Based on those lists, if you haven't seen them already I'd say take a look at The Sisters Brothers (2018), Unforgiven (1992), Silverado (1985), The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976), The Hateful Eight (2015), Bite the Bullet (1975), The Big Country (1958), and Hombre (1967).
I'll check out the others. I'm a bit leery of anything with Eastwood considering how much I hated The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, but maybe Josey Wales will change my mind. |
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I'd vote against Midnight Cowboy, too. The presence of a cowboy hat (and the word cowboy) not withstanding. Though it is fun to think about what would have to change about the film in order for me to think of it as a western (maybe not that much!).
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Originally Posted by Miss Vicky (Post 2047687)
I've seen The Sisters Brothers (like it), Unforgiven (didn't care for it), Silverado (love it), and The Hateful Eight (like it).
I'll check out the others. I'm a bit leery of anything with Eastwood considering how much I hated The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, but maybe Josey Wales will change my mind. |
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Just looking at the three primary genres thing a bit more....
Paint Your Wagon Comedy, Drama, Musical Surely we can't be disqualifying that one from a Westerns list? |
Blazing Saddles, HUD, and The Beguiled? I don't see any of them as westerns but I wouldn't debate against them.
Midnight Cowboy isn't close. |
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I'd say Blazing Saddles is a Western. Sorry in advance if we're being too freeform here. I'm cool with Holden basically just picking one for us to discuss at a time, to keep things focused/clear.
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Originally Posted by Chypmunk (Post 2047701)
Just looking at the three primary genres thing a bit more....
Paint Your Wagon Comedy, Drama, Musical Surely we can't be disqualifying that one from a Westerns list? EDIT: Blazing Saddles a western too. |
i currently have exactly 25 westerns i really like and would be happy to vote for but am excited to watch more.
also, i've never thought of midnight cowboy as a western, i don't think it should count. |
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Yes to Blazing Saddles
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Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 2047694)
I can only guess at what you didn't like about The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, but I would say whatever it is Sergio Leone is more responsible for it than Mr. Eastwood. If you hate GB&U I wouldn't really bother trying to get you to watch any other Spaghetti Westerns, even with your liking Tarantino's Django Unchained. But I'd say give Josey Wales a chance. It has some of the team of misfits banding together flavor of Silverado and some good humor.
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Blazing Saddles is absolutely a Western for me.
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It's good to have a procedure in place beforehand, so we don't get a big mess like Gremlins & Jaws caused in the Horror countdown. Wikipedia could be a secondary check point, so say if IMDB and Wikipedia both said a film was a western, then that would be a strong indication it's indeed a western. And if neither called a movie a western, then that also would strongly indicate a film isn't a western. Of course no system is perfect, but that double check at Wikipedia might prevent some headaches, or at least be a starting point to resolve future conflicts.
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Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 2047709)
I'd say Blazing Saddles is a Western. Sorry in advance if we're being too freeform here. I'm cool with Holden basically just picking one for us to discuss at a time, to keep things focused/clear.
Some Western comedies and spoofs include... Destry Rides Again (1939), My Little Chickadee (1940), The Paleface (1948), Son of Paleface (1952), Pardners (1956), Cat Ballou (1965), Carry On Cowboy (1965), The Shakiest Gun in the West (1968), Support Your Local Sheriff (1969), The Cheyenne Social Club (1970), They Call Me Trinity (1970), Trinity is Still Me Name (1971), Support Your Local Gunfighter (1971), My Name is Nobody (1973), Blazing Saddles (1974), The Apple Dumpling Gang (1975), Goin' South (1978), Hot Lead and Cold Feet (1978), The Frisco Kid (1979), The Villain (1979), Rustlers' Rhapsody (1985), Lust in the Dust (1985), ¡Three Amigos! (1986), City Slickers (1991), Lightning Jack (1994), Wagons East (1994), "The Cherokee Kid" (1996), Shanghai Noon (2000), Rango (2011), and A Million Ways to Die in the West (2014). |
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So far the overwhelming consensus seems to be that we agree Midnight Cowboy is not a Western. Does anybody want to argue in favor of it? I already received a ballot that included it, but I don't know if that person strongly believes it to be a Western or was simply going by the IMDb listing? Before I call them out I'll give more people a chance give their take. I'm also happy to open these up to separate polls if there really seems to be a lot of people on either side. |
Originally Posted by Chypmunk (Post 2047701)
Just looking at the three primary genres thing a bit more....
Paint Your Wagon Comedy, Drama, Musical Surely we can't be disqualifying that one from a Westerns list? |
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If I had to choose, I guess I'd choose against "Midnight Cowboy" as being a Western. But I think "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" qualifies.
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OK, Matt was the person who had Midnight Cowboy on their ballot. Unless Mark_F or somebody can give an impassioned reason why John Schlesinger's film should be included on a Westerns list we'll note that one as being ineligible for this MoFo exercise. It placed tenth on the MoFo 1960s list, it is a great film. It just ain't a Western.
Eligibility Debate Treasure of the Sierra Madre https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0Gqh...k9y0/giphy.gif Next up, John Huston's Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948). For those who don't know the movie, Humphrey Bogart stars as down-and-out American drifter Fred C. Dobbs in 1925 Mexico. He and another American (Tim Holt) wind up teaming with an old prospector named Howard (Walter Huston) who agrees to pool their meager resources and take off on a partnership looking for gold up in the mountains. They find it, but gold fever sets in as do some local bandits, putting their fortune and partnership at jeopardy. It's a magnificent film, one of my all time favorites. But is it a Western? This will likely come up with many modern day Westerns. By "modern day" I don't mean those made recently but rather those set decidedly after the turn of the 20th Century and beyond, where some of the familiar tropes and ingredients of the Western are replaced by more modern settings and objects. Some of these will be obvious, as in the Kirk Douglas picture Lonely Are the Brave (1963) which deals explicitly with this subject. Others may be debatable. What do you all think about Treasure of the Sierra Madre as a Western? |
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Been too many years since I've seen it but I wouldn't argue strenuously against it being allowed from what I remember.
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I don't think it is but it's not absurd like Midnight Cowboy.
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Originally Posted by Holden Pike;2047743[B
Eligibility Debate[/b]
What do you all think about Treasure of the Sierra Madre as a Western? For sure Treasure of the Sierra Madre is a western. Both IMDB and Wiki have it labeled as such. It's set in the old west, albeit the Mexican old west, but lots of great westerns were set in the Mexican west. And it's in the time period of the wild west, mid to late 1800s* Oh and there's horses, six shooters and...even cowboy boots:p *I know not all westerns are set in the historic old west time period. |
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I'd say yes, barely. I was starting to write down why, but it occurs to me it might be helpful (or just interesting to others) if I sat down to expound on what I think makes a western a western, and some things about Sierra Madre really tie into all that. I'll let it simmer a bit.
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The Treasure of the Sierra Madre is set in 1925. It's definitely a western. I vote NO on Midnight Cowboy. Others worth considering but not now.
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I'm happy to call it right there and agree Treasure of the Sierra Madre is a Western.
Another one... Eligibility Debate No Country for Old Men https://media.giphy.com/media/6hxRzyDl2gCaY/giphy.gif Joel & Ethan Coen's Best Picture Oscar winner No Country for Old Men (2007), adapted from Larry McMurtry's novel. It follows Llewelyn Moss (Josh Brolin) who while hunting in the Texas wilderness stumbles upon an undiscovered crime scene, a drug deal gone bad. Moss leaves the drugs among the dead but takes the suitcase full of cash. Realizing whoever belongs to that money will come looking for it, Moss sets off trying to stay one step ahead of the stalking chaos. That chaos is embodied by hired killer Anton Chigurh (Javier Bardem) who relentlessly pursues the money, leaving a pile of bodies in his wake. Enter Sheriff Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones), the lawman who seems two steps behind both of them. Taking place on both sides of the Mexican border, the chase is on. The IMDb lists it as Crime, Drama, Thriller. Modern day, obviously, cars and trucks instead of horses, but is it enough of a Western in its dusty, bloody DNA to be considered for our list? |
Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 2047799)
Modern day, obviously, cars and trucks instead of horses, but is it enough of a Western in its dusty, bloody DNA to be considered for our list?
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Not really to me, but I don't feel confident.
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While the IMDb does not list No Country for Old Men as a Western it DOES list Hell or High Water (2016), The Three Burials of Melquaides Estrada (2005), The Hi-Lo Country (1998), All the Pretty Horses (2000), and Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (1974) as Westerns, all of them set firmly in the 20th or 21st Century.
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Cool. After this it’ll be an all time top 100 right? To make the 10 year anniversary of the last one?
But yeah, I’ll send a list to this one. I’ll do FOR SURE if you can vote for No Country for Old Men :p |
I would say both No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood are westerns.
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Open Range is a very underrated western.
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Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19 (Post 2047832)
Open Range is a very underrated western.
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Re: The MoFo Westerns List
I don't think There Will Be Blood is a Western. It's a good movie but it won't make my list because I don't classify it as such.
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Re: The MoFo Westerns List
I can't stand There Will Be Blood and No Country For Old Men, but have no objections to them being allowed on other people's ballots.
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Re: The MoFo Westerns List
No Country For Old Men sits on the fence regarding whether it's a western or not. When I've watched it, I don't "think" Western.
I think for NCFOM it could be mistaken for a Western due to Location and the rest seem to be technicalities aka loop holes. It could also be considered a Noir due to the way things seem to go south very quickly. I'd go more for some of the other modern day films like Hell or High Water as a western in my eyes. Much like I would consider the Korean film The Good, The Bad, and the Weird. Even though it's set in Korea in the early 20th Century. Or even The Newton Boys. It's a close call, but I would have to go with: No. |
Re: The MoFo Westerns List
I personally never really thought of No Country For Old Men as a Western but again wouldn't object strenuously to anyone wanting to include it.
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i definitely wouldn’t count there will be blood, but no country for old men is tough. for borderline cases, i’d lean towards exclusion, because there will likely still be some who love the movie but feel uncomfortable putting it on their list or just don’t think of including it altogether, so we’d be left with a perennial board favorite like no country for old men in 60th place or something, satisfying nobody.
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Re: The MoFo Westerns List
I think No Country is the most legitimate on the fence candidate this far, although I'm not sure if call it one either.
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Re: The MoFo Westerns List
I love "There Will Be Blood", but it wasn't considered a Western by IMDB standards, so I didn't include it.
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I wouldn't have an objection if There Will Be Blood or No Country were included but I don't consider either a Western and wouldn't include them on my top 25.
I have an eligibility question: City Slickers. The story of a bunch of city folk participating in a cattle drive is listed only as a comedy. I consider this a modern Western. It does have some of the staples of classic Westerns: horses, cows, cowboy hats, guns, covered wagons, rope, etc. Thoughts? |
Re: The MoFo Westerns List
Very excited for this!
I'm glad you're willing to host this, Holden! |
1 Attachment(s)
There are many existing threads about Western movies for anybody who wants to look at some older discussions and maybe get some titles to seek out.
Top 5 Westerns, Which Westerns List Should We Add?, and Westerns HOF are good places to start. The BFI Screen Guide's 100 Westerns is a list that is already up here at MoFo. It is alphabetical and does not attempt to rank the films. |
Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 2047891)
Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 165026)
http://www.movieforums.com/community...1&d=1455727505
Actually, I've seen lots and lots of Westerns, and Tombstone is just plain and simple a steaming piece of *****...Western or otherwise. It's an embarrassingly awful hack job, the only minor highlight being Val Kilmer's anachronistic oddball performance from the planet Mars, which is totally incongruous with the hamfisted goings on and feels like it belongs in another movie but is at least amusing. Tombstone is a Western for folks who don't know or like Westerns. Anyone who really enjoys it (or the two Young Guns flicks or American Outlaws or Texas Rangers or even Raimi's The Quick & the Dead) really shouldn't ever watch a real Western. Ever. When I see Tombstone in the Westerns section of a video store, I feel the same way I do when I see frippin' Kenny G in the Jazz section of a music store: it just plain don't belong. Not that I have any strong feelings on the subject. . |
I'm planning on watching Tombstone for this, but I don't expect to like it.
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Originally Posted by cricket (Post 2047904)
I'm planning on watching Tombstone for this, but I don't expect to like it.
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Originally Posted by Miss Vicky (Post 2047906)
It got nominated in a recent HOF and I didn't love it nearly as much as I once did, but still enjoyed it and will probably vote for it. But he also took a stab at The Quick and the Dead, which I most definitely still love.
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Re: The MoFo Westerns List
I've seen Tombstone a couple of times and it is a decidedly mediocre piece of work. There's stuff to like about it - a decent ensemble cast gets to do solid performances, but the film as a whole isn't exactly the most special thing and you're arguably better off seeking out My Darling Clementine or some such. Still gotta wonder if Holden stands by his original assessment or if he's mellowed in his old age (ah who am I kidding, it's obviously the former).
Anyway, I will say that I'd count No Country For Old Men as a Western. |
Originally Posted by cricket (Post 2047907)
I wasn't considering watching Quick and Dead but maybe I will since you love it.
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Re: The MoFo Westerns List
There Will Be Blood and No Country For Old Men, are not westerns. I do hope we can make a countdown that ends up reflecting the best of the western genre and not just popular films that happen to be set in the west.
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Originally Posted by cricket (Post 2047907)
I wasn't considering watching Quick and Dead but maybe I will since you love it.
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Iroquois (Post 2047908)
Still gotta wonder if Holden stands by his original assessment or if he's mellowed in his old age (ah who am I kidding, it's obviously the former).
These are the Westerns that have appeared on the other MoFo countdowns thus far... Top 100 of the Millennium There Will Be Blood* (#5) The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (#19) True Grit (#61) The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada (#65) Top 100 of the 1990s Unforgiven (#12) Dead Man (#35) Top 100 of the 1980s None Top 100 of the 1970s McCabe & Mrs. Miller (#22) Blazing Saddles (#33) The Outlaw Josey Wales (#49) Little Big Man (#61) Jeremiah Johnson (#92) Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (#94) Top 100 of the 1960s The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (#3) Once Upon a Time in the West (#5) The Wild Bunch (#15) Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (#21) For a Few Dollars More (#22) A Fistful of Dollars (#51) The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (#52) True Grit (#72) Hud (#79) Top 100 of the 1950s The Searchers (#18) Rio Bravo (#22) High Noon (#28) Shane (#64) The Big Country (#66) Giant (#77) Johnny Guitar (#81) Oklahoma! (#97) Top 100 of the 1940s Treasure of the Sierra Madre (#7) The Ox-Bow Incident (#39) Red River (#56) My Darling Clementine (#58) Top 100 of the 1930s Stagecoach (#23) Destry Rides Again (#72) The Pre-1930 Top 50 3 Bad Men (#30) The Great Train Robbery (#36) Top 100 Animated Films Rango (#34) Top 100 Directed by Women Meek's Cutoff (#56) *if deemed eligible |
Re: The MoFo Westerns List
Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 2047926)
Originally Posted by Iroquois (Post 2047908)
Still gotta wonder if Holden stands by his original assessment or if he's mellowed in his old age (ah who am I kidding, it's obviously the former).
These are the Westerns that have appeared on the other MoFo countdowns thus far... Top 100 of the Millennium There Will Be Blood* (#5) No Country for Old Men* (#9) The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (#19) True Grit (#61) The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada (#65) Top 100 of the 1990s Unforgiven (#12) Dead Man (#35) Top 100 of the 1980s None Top 100 of the 1970s McCabe & Mrs. Miller (#22) Blazing Saddles (#33) The Outlaw Josey Wales (#49) Little Big Man (#61) Jeremiah Johnson (#92) Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (#94) Top 100 of the 1960s The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (#3) Once Upon a Time in the West (#5) The Wild Bunch (#15) Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (#21) For a Few Dollars More (#22) A Fistful of Dollars (#51) The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (#52) True Grit (#72) Hud (#79) Top 100 of the 1950s The Searchers (#18) Rio Bravo (#22) High Noon (#28) Shane (#64) The Big Country (#66) Giant (#77) Johnny Guitar (#81) Oklahoma! (#97) Top 100 of the 1940s Treasure of the Sierra Madre (#7) The Ox-Bow Incident (#39) Red River (#56) My Darling Clementine (#58) Top 100 of the 1930s Stagecoach (#23) Destry Rides Again (#72) The Pre-1930 Top 50 3 Bad Men (#30) The Great Train Robbery (#36) Top 100 Animated Films Rango (#34) Top 100 Directed by Women Meek's Cutoff (#56) *if deemed eligible |
Originally Posted by Holden Pike (Post 2047891)
There are many existing threads about Western movies for anybody who wants to look at some older discussions and maybe get some titles to seek out.
Top 5 Westerns, Which Westerns List Should We Add?, and Westerns HOF are good places to start. The BFI Screen Guide's 100 Westerns is a list that is already up here at MoFo. It is alphabetical and does not attempt to rank the films. |
Re: The MoFo Westerns List
Tombstone and The Quick and the Dead was always on TV (TNT), and my dad (awful movie taste) would watch it, and it was horrible even for a kid, who thought 90% of movies were good by the time it was over.
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Re: The MoFo Westerns List
We had a great discussion on Wyatt Earp/Doc Holliday films during the HoF that had Tombstone.
A film that always seems to bring up a "you either like one or other" was Kevin Costner's Wyatt Earp. And I agree with the BFI list being a bit overly focused on 50's westerns and missing out on a lot of excellent Westerns. |
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