Which westerns list should we add?

It goes without saying that we want to keep adding lists to the Lists area, and one of the next logical areas to branch out into would be genre-specific lists. This can be a bit tricky, however, as there are less "official" lists, so deciding what to use as a source is a bit of a judgment call.

I looked around a bit, and the most prominent list of westerns I could find was the "100 Best Westerns Ever Made" list from Cowboys & Indians magazine.

Now, there are two potential hiccups with choosing this one. The first, which is small, is that a list of 100 is pretty daunting when you're talking about a specific genre. This would apply to any future genre-based lists, of course.

The second, which is significant, is that some of the "films" listed are actually television series'. It's not really clear how one would decide whether they've "seen" a series; is viewing every single episode required, for example? And there's the simple fact that these are intended to be movie lists, and not TV lists. However, most of those on the list are films, so I'm open to making an exception.

There are some alternative lists; for example, Images has a "30 Great Westerns" list. However, they're not a publication; just a website. There's a list by Doug Nye that's supposed to be pretty good, but I've been unable to track it down so far.

What do you guys think?

There is also this one from IMDB based on the votes from the site.

I'm not sure I'd agree with the list as it stands though personally... there seem to be some missing that I would think belong, particularly a few other Eastwood flicks...

As for the 100 greatest from the magazine... what about just taking out the TV shows? It looked offhand like there were 10 of them. Granted, it wouldn't be 100 films then, but if you wanted to go with sets of 25, then drop the lowest ones in addition to the TV shows to get to 75...

just a few thoughts

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IMDB seems like the natural place to look, but it's not static; the rankings fluctuate based on user votes, so unfortunately we can't use any from there.

Making a "favs" list based on a single genre should be a "cut the gristle and fat out" kinda thing.

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I like both lists. I'm going to vote 100% either way, just because I checked their lists and I believe it's accurate, but I'm not really up on what significant lists are floating around. You may not believe this, but I rarely spend time at sites that are so moviecentric.

(That means this site is super!)

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Indeed...

For something that genre specific I'd personally poll a few veteran MoFos for their thoughts. Hang officialdom! Lists by the people for the people!

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"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how the Tatty 100 is done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Brendan Behan

Well if you want to keep with the AFI/BFI level of criteria, the BFI did publish a book called 100 Westerns (2006), in their BFI Screen Guides series. It lists the movies alphabetically. I'd be happy to type them all out. Overall it's a very good mix, including all the Fords and Hawks and Peckinpahs and Leones you'd expect, plus some only harder core Western fans will know, from Silents to Hollywood to Spaghettis to the Avant-Garde.

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In keeping with the existing lists, Holden's suggestion sounds like the way to go… and after reading Tatty’s post… I'd kinda like to see a top 100 list included that was all MoFo…

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That sounds great, Holden. Odd that the list isn't available online already, but if you're sure it's not too much trouble, that sounds like the best fit.

Yeah, I couldn't find the list anywhere or even the table of contents on Amazon. I'll PM you the list in the next few days. Gotta jump in the shower and out to work right now.

Pike's offer sounds best.

The problem with any recently published best movie list is that it's always top heavy with recent films that more readers have seen and totally ignores older movies that for various reasons may have been better or even advanced the genre but that are rarely shown today. For instance, I recently had the opportunity to see a couple of old Tom Mix silent films that had more derring-do than any of the Die Hard films of Bruce Willis (who actually played Tom Mix in Sunset). One thing I like best about the older films is that you see some real horsemanship on the screen. The old studio system had riding schools for their contract players, so they didn't look on screen like they were mounting a horse for the first time. Also, a lot of the early Western stars and stuntmen actually grew up on ranches--Gary Cooper and Ben Johnson, for example.

Kudos to Ruf for mentioning Tom Mix. I used to live near the stretch of highway in Arizona where he died. There is a somber old monument at the spot on the road. Ol' Tom had been a gamblin, and he had an aluminum case with some winnings in it on the seat behind him. He had to brake suddenly when he came up on some construction, and he couldn't stop in time. He jerked the wheel, sending his car into a gully, and sending the case up over his seat where it contacted the base of his skull. He was killed instantly. My Grandmother was a BIG fan, and we would drive out to pay tribute every summer while she was alive. RIP 'ol Tom.



Anyway, back on topic. I like Holden's idea, just fine.

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Well, this isn't a "BFI" list like the other you've used so far, in that it wasn't compiled by gathering lists from critics and filmmakers and whittling it down from there. These are author Edward Buscome's choices. Buscome has written extensively on film, especially Westerns.

Once the list is up I think even the biggest Western fan would have to agree it's a very good, very balanced list. If it's top heavy at all, by Buscome's own admission, it is of movies from the '30s through the '60s, when the genre was a staple in Hollywood and A-list stars and directors were cranking them out. Buscome does take into account its influence on foreign cinema and does have most of the so-called Revisionist classics from the late '60s and '70s, but does have Westerns from every decade of its existence (generally accepted as 1903 as its birth), up to I believe Kevin Costner's Open Range (2003) as the latest entry of the hundred. And since they are presented alphabetically, there can't be any complaints about where The Searchers placed in regards to The Outlaw Josey Wales or what have you, it's just 100 Westerns deemed worth seeing and the best he could do at representing all facets and history of the genre. I'd quote Buscome's introduction, but it's a few pages long and much too involved to transcribe in total.

While any fan of any genre will be able to find two or three movies on such a list, even a a hundred titles, that are personally shocking in their exclusion and two or three head-scratchers you wouldn't put on a personal top five-hundred list, by in large this is the best, most balanced Westerns list I've come across. It will suit the MoFo Lists nicely, I think.

Stay tuned, cowpokes!

I not sure if a hundred is enough actually, just from reviewing that list of 100 there, I imagine that a lot of folks may start off with a good chunk of that list already done. Perhaps an Idea could be to start with 100 and then add more to it as the months go by and some members lists start to get filled. We could do it similar to an awards show and give nominations or votes to particular films that we want to add to the lists. Anyway Holden's list sounds pretty good too. Perhaps that's the best way to go.

Either way though this is such a great idea, I've got about 10 movies on deck here at home that I haven't watched yet that are on some of the lists and I can't wait to get to them.

I personally would love it if at some point perhaps we could have a list of T.V. shows by itself, I know this is primarily a movie forum, but there are some very good shows on the small screen as well that are really worth seeing. Several of them on that list you just posted are pretty good, I already own a couple of them in fact. I mean their mostly for a reference point for me, I'm always looking for stuff that's good that I haven't seen yet.

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You may be right as far as some mofos go...but personally if I've seen five of the Westerns on whichever list is used I'll be surprised!

LOL, I take it you didn't receive your copy of The John Wayne Hand book when you were born?

Me, I'm easy whatever people decide

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Does HP own a scanner?

Tell you what, if he doesn't then he can handwrite the list, email it to me and I can scan it and send it to Chris. Just trying to be helpful!

The list appears to be on there now but I can't update anything on mine...

I'm listing to the left as we speak.

What are we gonna do with all these lists apart from sneering that MoFo X is better than MoFo Y and that MoFo Z should take no part in a serious discussion on, say, The importance of signet rings in Film Noir because he's only scored 53% in 'Sight & Sound's 100 Greatest Film Noir Signet Rings'? Serious question.

I guess.