Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Quite surprised with the results. I could not believe that Daisies made it in 28th place, Cleo From 5 to 7 in 14th place, and Jeanne Dielmann in number 1. I was shocked over Jeanne Dielmann winning as it was unexpected, I thought 2001 would win. I was quite happy with this list. And Citizen Kane was at number 3 seems sad after it winning for so many decades and landing number 2 last one.

https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sou...films-all-time
https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sou...films-all-time

Very happy to see some love for Daisies.

I need to see Cleo and Jeanne Dielmann still, but surprised the latter came in at #1.

I should be able to see them this year since I subscribed to the Criterion Channel finally.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

The enforcement of the female director policy is quite laughable because while I agree that Jeanne Dielman and Daisies are masterpieces and deserve a spot (whether as high is up to debate), the inclusion of Portrait of a Lady on Fire at #30 is quite laughable. Wanda at #48 is fishy though. I haven't seen that one, though (one of three I haven't seen from the entire list).

I'll have to read more about voting and the rules involved. Still, I find this particular part amusing:

I'm surprised there are no programming tutorials high on the list.

But yeah, all in all, it's a pretty good list.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Nice to see love for Daises and Wanda...A link to the list would be nice for this thread.

https://letterboxd.com/bfi/list/sigh...s-of-all-time/

You have any links about this? Can’t find a thing

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

I've seen 96/100. Haven't seen:

News From Home
Daughters of the Dust
Histoire(s) du cinema (still can't find it anywhere :()
Black Girl

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Well they picked the worst most unwatchable film of all-time as it's number 1 now I can write them off.

Not an actual policy, but I sometimes think that people feel they SHOULD include at least one female director on their list just because.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

I've only seen 46. What a poseur.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

I'm glad to see Dielman at number one. It not only is one of the few films that deserves such a placing, but it should make some people scream in protest, which is always fun (it should still be 2001 though but...whatever...if they haven't gotten that one right by this point they never will)


Glad to see Wanda is there. Glad to see L'Atalante is still hanging in.



As for Get Out....lol. And I say that as someone who thinks its very good but....lol.


Other than that one though, I don't see anything undeserving there (at least of what I've seen, I think there are a small handful I've yet to get around to)

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Oh, Touki Bouke...errrrrrrrrr....maybe not that one. But I also should probably give it a second chance.

I have a hard copy of it that has never worked. Does that help?

Godard must really not want me to steal the film :(

I found this boxset recently, so I might get that soon, provided it works in the U.S.:

https://www.amazon.com/Histoire-Du-C.../dp/B005MXQD74

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Also, I hope they release the full list. I found a top 1000+ list for their 2012 list a while back which I've used a bunch of times.

I have good news. Check out the director's poll (it was released in tandem with the critics' list):

https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sou...films-all-time

Overall, it's not too different, but there's a few additional films. Happy to see Come and See represented, for instance. Overall, I think I kind of prefer this one.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

It's basically other people's lists. Nobody is gong to like it 100%. I personally think it is quite good in parts, then absolutely ludicrous in others.

'Get Out', which is an average film at best, is now apparently better than:

Lawrence of Arabia
Ran
Raging Bull
Rear Window
Paths of Glory
Come and See
......and every Kieslowski film ever made

Laughable.

It's just another list made by other people. Make your own, it's way more fun.

I'm honestly fine with both lists, but the director's one is particularly quality.

To me it is less looking at what movies it 'beats', then having to even consider it as being one of the hundred greatest movies of all time. Wizard of Oz should be deserving of this list, but it would be impossible to really compare its greatness to any of the above films because they are so different in their intentions. But Get Out just shouldn't be there in the first place. Like, at all. And I'd hope most fans would agree with this, at least if they aren't completely insane.



Like, I don't want to be an art fascist, but I appeal to have it forcibly removed.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

My Letterboxd says I've seen 30/100, but there are some I haven't marked as watched. It's probably less than 40 still. Three films would be in contention for my top 10 votes, and maybe about ten could make their way to my top 100.

My opinion is that it's not my opinion of the top 100 movies ever.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Jeanne Dielmann is awful.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Céline and Julie Go Boating worth a watch? never heard of that one

I'm a fan, so I would recommend it. If you're into Godard and Lynch, it might be up your alley.

Maybe it was my mood, but I struggled with it.



I usually have no problem with a movie confusing me, and ****ing around with my perception of what I'm actually watching, but its strangeness just alienated me. Not even really sure why.

I have a friend whose opinions of film I respect who regards it as their favorite film. Like you, I really just could not connect with it. Likewise the one other Rivette film I've seen. I could not tell you if it just happened to be the state of mind I was in or not.

Some great choices, some automatic choices, some fashionable choices.

I haven't seen it and have no interest in changing that either.

Fishy at 48 or fishy for being in the top 100?
I'm glad to see it in the top 100. I feel like it's somewhat high, especially since A Woman Under the Influence (or any Cassavetes) isn't on the list.
Granted, in terms of where they ended up landing for placement, there's probably a number of films I have to scratch my head over on them.

Actually, give me your take on the appeal of this one. Because years back when I was addressing some of my Sight & Sound blindspots with the last list, I think this was on the only high ranking one I came across that I just did not understand why it was there. i.e. I didn't sense any hooks, angles, emotional resonances as to why it would put its claws into people's mental spaces where when it came time to say ten movies they love, its name would come to their lips.

It is a movie that feels like it is being dreamed up by the director from one scene to the next. It is kind of formless and it doesn't really have a hook. It just drifts along the river. And while this isn't really that remarkable a thing with modern films, there are a billion movies that do this both intentionally and unintentionally these days, its lightness of touch, and fluid soft spoken weirdness, is almost shocking for the time. I think it might be one of the most alive films made, until Godard came around. And its better than anything Godard did.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

No Cassavetes is absurd.

Woman Under the Influence was #19 on the director's poll.
Only one.
But hey, there's only a hundred spots.


Another weird thing. Tropical Malady over Uncle Boonmee or Cemetery of Splendor.
I say weird not because of quality, because I haven't seen the former. Mainly because it's only accessible by kanopy (which a number of large metro area libraries no longer include as part of their memberships) or DVD. Not even Blu-ray. You can't rent it in streaming platforms if JustWatch is to be believed. Which leads me to wonder, how did enough people see that one?

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

I'm at 55/100. The ones I haven't seen...

1. Jeanne Dielman
7. Beau Travail
9. Man with a Movie Camera
11. Sunrise
13. The Rules of the Game
14. Cleo from 5 to 7
15. The Searchers
17. Close-Up
25. Au Hasard Balthazar
27. Shoah
28. Daisies
31. Mirror
34. L'Atalante
35. Pather Panchali
36. City Lights
44. Killer of Sheep
48. Wanda
49. Ordet
51. The Piano
52. News from Home
53. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul
57. Contempt
59. Sans Soleil
60. Daughters of the Dust
66. Touki Bouki
67. The Gleaners and I
69. Andrei Rublev
70. The Red Shoes
72. My Neighbor Totoro
73. Journey to Italy
74. L'Avventura
75. Imitation of Life
78. Brighter Summer Day
79. Satantango
80. Celine & Julie Go Boating
83. A Matter of Life and Death
85. Pierrot Le Fou
86. Histoire(s) du Cinema
87.The Spirit of the Beehive
89. Chungking Express
90. The Earrings of Madame de...
91. The Leopard
92. Ugetsu
94. Yi Yi
100. Tropical Malady


Now, give it to me *covers*

Good for Jeanne Dielman, an epic unlike any other.

I am pleased/surprised/confused by the inclusion of Meshes of the Afternoon, and in such a high spot!

I'd love to see a graphic that breaks down the ballots.

I'm pretty happy with a lot of the list. Though I am a little surprised at some things that dropped off (Bride Of Frankenstein) and some things that have fallen so far (Metropolis, Casablanca).
I was really happy to see two films that were new to me in the last 2-3 years, and would absolutely make a very short list for me, certainly would make my top let's say 25 new watches of the last 5-10 years make the list, Cleo From 5 to 7 and Black Girl.
On the one hand, nice to see Blade Runner getting this kind of love, but on the other, I'm still pretty baffled at Goodfellas being on the list and being as high as it is and above so many films I feel are better, but I guess that's just personal.
The one that shocked me was Portrait Of A Lady On Fire. Not because I didn't think it belonged there, I haven't seen it yet though I've been meaning to since it was released, but just that it's so recent and it's an All-Time list that anything that's had so little time to be vetted or prove its staying-power comes as a big surprise to me, but I guess it just makes me want to see it even more.

Feels like there also may be some recency bias, and what I mean is that streaming has allowed a lot of films that were not very accessible to become so and a lot of those films seem to have made the list, making one wonder if that effected this poll in particular.
Not that it really matters except that we're set with this list for another decade and it will be interesting to see how it shakes out in another ten years when films that have only popped up in the last few as being readily available have been so for a dozen, fifteen years or whatever.
Overall, I found this all very exciting.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Dupe heh

I would say this, for me personally, about Cleo From 5 to 7:
Once I finally saw it, my reaction was, "How has this not been considered one of the best films ever made all along? This is as good as or better than any French New Wave film I have ever seen and I think this is one of the best movies I've ever seen." For me, it's the best film I've seen in the last 3 years, given that I saw The Passion Of Joan Of Arc 3 years and 3 months ago.
So, I felt 14 was pretty close to right on the money. For me, right now, it is the best film of the FNW, passing Breathless, my previous favorite. Not that I am an expert on the sub-genre, but if someone said, "The best film of the French New Wave landed at 14", I'd be like, "Ok, that makes sense." And, for me, that's exactly what happened.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

I love the idea of someone finding this list and being like, "Oh what's this movie that is ranked #1 maybe I should watch it" and I'd watch that reaction video and I hate those videos.

I would submit that a lot of great films by female directors have become more available in the last decade due to streaming services and so a lot more are being considered. I mean, didn't only 14 films by female directors make it despite those females making up literally 50% of the population?

Depends on whether you liked Daisies. ;)
I'd say both but I have to finally watch it to not sound like an idiot.
You had me until this came.
Many incredible directors are left off.
This time they were right. It's Joe's best.
I Won't "give it to you" in any other way than just saying you have lots and lots of masterpieces to catch up on.
Maybe they think it's not an FNW film. Technically, it's the Left Bank...
It's not really about the percentage of females making the population. If anything, it's about the percentage of females being filmmakers.

Also, I just noticed Moonlight and Get Out made it. LOL.

Moonlight's a great ****ing movie, dude.

Dunno, dude. Feels like Happy Together renders it kinda pointless.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

I have a headache.

What's the matter, having trouble counting to 100?

Where do you think Casablanca was ranked before (because I looked and it jumped up about 20 spots. The opposite of falling)?
The Rules of the Game, The Passion of Joan of Arc, and Sunrise all fell out of the top 10. 8 1/2 really dropped out of the top 10.

I think the part that surprised me is, it wasn't on there last time, it doesn't seem readily available, so how did it manage to increase its following by that much in the past decade?


And it looks like Wanda was ~224 last time (for comparison, Woman Under the Influence was ~150, which I reference since I think Cassavetes is the best reference point for that one). fwiw.


I can't remember if you're the person who's the big Edward Yang fan. I was actually a little surprised to see Yi-Yi hang in there from last time and another Yang film get added (Bright Summer Day). Maybe because I've only seen Yi-Yi, his films haven't struck me as being on the tips of a lot critics' tongues for the past 20 years.

But it is. You just have to know where to look. :cool:

Yeah, I love Edward Yang but I prefer The Terrorizers to Yi Yi.

I'm not one to complain about stuff being "woke", but this list has definitely been heavily influenced by a lot of the modern discourse around certain films. Obviously, that's natural and maybe I'm going to sound like a pretentious kn*b but I find it slightly odd how stuff like Get Out and Moonlight go so high as if there haven't been important films with similar themes before. People acted like Get Out was revolutionary and I enjoyed it, but this always perplexed me slightly.

Main positive is this will finally give me the push to watch Jeanne Dielman.

@Yoda How about we get rid of the other Sight & Sound list and the new critics/directors list on the site. Not as a point of urgency, but I think they'd make two good additions to the Lists section.

83/100 seen on the Critics list.
78/100 seen on the Directors list.

Yes, go see it on the whim. I was stuck saying it was the best film I saw all year(I love this one but needed it to change) until I saw one other Rivette film, La Dolce Vita and Nashville. It has got a story that no normal movie ever has.

Word. I think it perfectly shows that many film critics are normies, too. It really feels like they felt they have to include a female-directed film, a Black film, or even a film on colonialism on their list. Otherwise, I have absolutely no idea how anybody with a grain of good taste would put something like Moonlight on their list.

It's an aggregated list of 1600-something people. I think it very well shows the current state of cinephilic thought in the Western world. Killer of Sheep at #44. LOL. Freakin' Piano. A Douglas Sirk film (why this one and not the arguably more popular All That Heaven Allows?). Also, I thought it was one per director but it isn't. This makes some omissions even more painful.

It's still kinda good because the good movies on it are REALLY good. Of course, they could do better, but hell, it's still better than MoFo's Top 100, I guess!

Anyway, it's only 100 films. Individual lists will be more interesting.

"You just have to know where to look," implies "not readily available," at least, to the general public.

I owe Moonlight a rewatch because I didn't really click with it, found Beale Street intriguing, but a little too distant or something, but really clicked with The Underground Railroad, so I'm not giving the same side-eye to Moonlight you two are. Parasite and the ascent of Goodfellas (I'm feeling you there @Wooley) kind of get to me more. Granted, wrt Parasite, I'm not a huge fan of North by Northwest either, so there might be a Hitchcockian pattern there for me.


I'm also noticing the recent movies are the recent 2010's and not even the early 2010's which makes the sense recency bias in this list feel pronounced (is there anything from 2008-2015?)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fi6ukdrX...jpg&name=small

I think every list I have seen included a female director, was it an enforced policy or an involuntary thing that caught on? Either way it's no surprise that because of the smaller pool to choose from of quality films from female directors (because of the sheer size of the pool) that something like Jeanne Dielman has found it all the way to the top.

Written on the Wind is my favourite Douglas Sirk.

Westerns really took a beating and I can't believe Portrait of a Lady on Fire is number 30 on the critics list. A lot of these films are really popular on stuff like Twitter/Letterboxd but I didn't really expect to see them do so well here.

The directors list is more my cup of tea anyway and like you said I much prefer to spend hours trawling through the individual lists than looking at the actual top 100.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Yeah, throwing away old masterpieces to add modern filth is not a new thing. That book called 1001 Movies You Have to See Before You Die does the same thing every year.

You're right, I think I'm conflating it with old AFI lists where it remains in the top 3 American films ever made way ahead of many films on the Sight & Sound (literally 89+ spots ahead of Blade Runner, Do The Right Thing, and Goodfellas).

I like this list/resource https://theyshootpictures.com/gf1000...ilms_table.php

I gotta say that my take on the female directors is a lot different from what I'm seeing here.
My take is that now that we are actually considering films by female directors seriously for the first time, and I feel that that is true, we are finding that many of them should always have been in the canon.
I mean, not to beat a dead horse, but when I saw Cleo I just thought, "Oh, this is one of the best movies I've ever seen and if this is the only film this Agnes Varda person ever made (because I knew nothing about her since we don't talk about female directors) she should at least be considered one of the greatest one-hit wonders of all time."
I mean, it is not lost on me that I never, ever saw or heard anyone talking about this film for years and years and now that it has seen the light of day and gotten a little shine, people all over are acknowledging its greatness.
As for Black filmmakers, I think some of the same is true. Where was Black Girl all my life? After years of reading books about film and being on numerous film forums, I had never even heard anyone mention it when it popped up out of nowhere streaming (I had never seen it streaming anywhere before until 3 years ago either). I took a flier on it and thought, "Oh, this is like some kind of masterpiece, why has no one been talking about this film?" It's a matter of exposure more than anything else.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Varda and Akerman have been well known and discussed forever and would especially have been among the "programmers, curators, archivists and academics" that create these lists. It seems like there is a conscious decision to push more diverse demographics up to be more inclusive (or is it to not seem exclusive?) and that's fine. It's good really. In most cases at least, some picks are a bit odd. But Jeanne Dielman's jump to #1 now that's gotta be some collusion am I right? And I like the film and all of what I've seen from the director. Conspiracy.

Yeah, it's the best one. It has some middling films, too. But at least most of them are far away from the top.
Nobody gives a hoot. If the film is good, it will find its place there. Unless it's obscure. Cleo isn't. It's Film 101. I really don't know how you could have never heard about it before. I presume you never heard of Chabrol, Gilles, Marker, or Rivette either? It's not like before our times somebody watched a film like Cleo and thought "Wow, this film is a masterpiece but it was directed by a woman and women are stupid and I won't include it on my list". No. The thing is, nowadays "directed by a woman" became a freakin' catchphrase. So of course people are bound to look for movies using this catchphrase and then overrate films based on that catchphrase. It's a process similar to overhyping films like Parasite (incidentally, also featured on the list) or Everything Everywhere All at Once. It's marketing or a form of mass hallucination.

You're now behaving as if Cleo was some film considered lost until 2020, or something. While it's a pretty basic introductory French cinema movie. Sure, maybe a lot of the "critics" indeed watched it for the first time. And I think it was one of the few things they watched.

But yeah, you are kind of right. It's true that many people decided that some of these films directed by women should have always been in the canon. And so they are now pushing them there. Cleo is a great film but so are many other French films from the 60s.

African Cinema 101. Also very overrated because, you know, bad Frenchies and colonialism and stuff. But hey, at least it's KINDA good.

Happens. But I'm surprised you've never even heard about it. It's really one of the most well-regarded films from Africa. The question is how many films from Africa have you seen mentioned anywhere? Maybe that's where the problem lies. Besides, it's completely alright to leave off the entire continent of Africa on a list like that. I mean, African cinema was never as good as Asian or European cinema.

I can say the same about countless films. 99% of them are made by men. So, why has nobody been talking about them?

MoFo All-Time Top 100 > S & S Top 100

Maybe so.
It surprises me to hear you say that about Varda and Akerman. I've been on movie forums for 16 years and I never heard anyone talk about them til recently. I didn't even know Jeanne Dielman existed until fairly recently (last few years) because no one ever mentioned it and it wasn't anywhere to be found unless you already knew about it. I mean, It wasn't in Roger Ebert's first THREE HUNDRED Great Movies, as an example. And Cleo sat in my queue for almost 15 years because no one ever, ever mentioned it on any of the forums I was on even when we were specifically talking about French films of the 1960s. It was all about Godard and Truffaut and Bresson and Demy and even Rivette, but I basically never heard Varda's name.
Now maybe there is a "push" but if there is I lean more toward feeling that that push is to correct long-existing oversights rather than to over-promote less-deserving films because of social climates.
And I just don't know about this conspiracy. I have spent almost as much time scouring streaming services over the last 15 years for great movies as I have watching them and Dielman only turned up in the last few years, certainly since the last poll. They didn't have a copy at my video store either. And it wasn't showing at the multiplex. It wasn't even showing at the Art House. I think it's become widely available and widely discussed recently so a lot of people have seen it and seen it recently and been floored by it, and that's how it got there.
Like I said, I think these things point more to a Recency Bias than some social conspiracy.

I guess I'm just a plebe who's only seen a few thousand films from the dawn of cinema to the present across dozens of cultures and been in active discussion about same for decades but is just a woebegone normie compared to your cinematic greatness, Minio.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

There's a difference between haven't seen vs. haven't heard about.

Cleo was talked about all of the time at Rotten Tomatoes. I think there was even one thread completely devoted to it, and was a number of long time posters who had it as their top or one of their top films of all time




As for the addition of all these women directors, while I think maybe some segment of the voters felt obligated to include one, I don't think it matters much here since there really isn't anything embarrassing that doesn't belong. Sure, maybe a better Campion film. Or it is possibly a little off that Meshes of the Afternoon is seemingly the sole experimental film on the list. And with Wanda, as happy as I am that it is getting acknowledged, it being there as (I assume) an ambassador for American independent films just makes the exclusion of Cassavetes' more baffling. With such a strong american presence on the list, to not list anything by the guy who almost single handedly brought the idea of independent feature length films into the discussion is egregious.


There are obviously a lot of unfortunate omissions, but when isn't there? The one that I definitely find most annoying though is Lawrence of Arabia which, I'm just going to guess, is because T.E. is a colonialist or white savior or whatever, which would just be stupid beyond belief.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Touki Bouki or Yelen are more African cinema 101 aren't they? Or even Cairo Station. Black Girl is a really good film though.

Most of these films are in the Criterion collection. None of them are really obscure at all.

Although many on the list are great, I feel they are not the director's best work. Le Bonheur is Varda's best that I've seen. Fanny and Alexander is not even top 5 Bergman in my humble opinion. And La Notte is not Antonioni's best. It seems critics have their favourite.

Agree Parasite should be nowhere near this list. It's probably not in the top 20 Korean films of all time.

And I'll repeat: No Kieslowski, is an absolute sham.

Imagine if The Dark Knight was at #1.

They all are.

I'd have ok'd it

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

There are 20, at least, decent films on that list.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Like with our yearly Countdown Lists, there are some people here making the mistake of assuming that every film fan got in at the same floor. It's OK to not have seen everything here. It's OK to not have heard of all of them. It's OK to not like any of them. These lists will never please everybody and will never be an accurate depiction of the taste of every single cinephile. So chill and don't be dismissive of where others stand, but rather be humble in sharing your thoughts about the list, or the films you consider more worthy.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Like any industry they must have events or meetings where you get together with peers, hear presentations, have panels, and talk shop. I did use "conspiracy" lightly but just based on my experience in my totally unrelated industry, knowing how it goes, it's difficult for me to imagine they weren't discussing their upcoming votes, with context of the the current climate, and rallied around certain films. And even rallied against others. Who knows. I demand an investigation into the Sight & Sound 2022 list!

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

They just want to sell more boxsets - https://shop.bfi.org.uk/the-agnes-va...y-box-set.html

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Maybe I should be more positive. It's a delight to see Close Up so high up the list, and meshes of the afternoon finally seems to be getting the recognition it deserves.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Yeah +1 on Close-Up. Kiarostami had three on the director's list. I'm also a fan of Beau Travail and Claire Denis, although it's been a long time since I last watched it. Haven't heard any comments on it being in the top 10/20 of both lists.

I love Beau Travail, the Criterion Blu Ray is stunning.

Gone With the Wind not being on the list was ridiculous as well. Sadly it seems like people judge it nowadays based on how it portrayed slaves rather than how the other characters were. Or maybe critics wanted to represent all of these foreign films to the point of GWTW's exclusion.

I wonder if there is anyone angry over no Spielberg movies for critics. No Shawshank, no Pulp Fiction, no Dark Knight. I am pretty sure the audiences were angered that "their" favorites were not on the list. I am impressed with this list because it did not state the obvious.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

I created a custom list to commemorate this poll:
https://www.movieforums.com/lists/custom/401

Honestly, I'm from the South and I've never liked Gone With The Wind, not in any way because of portrayals but because it's just not a film that appeals to me in any way and never has. I'm thrilled to not see it.

I'm not particularly big on discounting an older film because it might fall short of our current standards, but at least with GWTW, it does have a legitimately hoary legacy. At least people aren't wrong if they are angry at the film having racist under and even overtones. But as far as I'm concerned, a reading of Lawrence that concludes the film is racist is....dumb. or at the very least, a deeply one dimensional reading of what the film is.




But also, like Wooley, I'm fine with it not bejng there because I don't think it is that good. It is one of the rare out and out classics I sorta think stinks

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

i think it's possible that people just really like the movie jeanne dielman and in 2012 it wasn't widely available and now it is

Angry, old, rich, white man shakes fist at change, implies conspiracy. Film at eleven.

On one hand I get what Schraeder is saying, because of the optics of a film jumping thirty points when that would have been unprecedented before.


But films are so much more accessible now, to acquire, to rewatch multiple times. This is a huge factor. And because of it Jeanne Dielmann has been building serious steam regarding peoples awareness of it the last decade. I know of a few total cinema plebes who have become aware of it. It's strident formalism has also become seemingly embraced more and more by those who aren't simply interested in its politics or its avant garde reputation.


So while I have no doubt that maybe a bit of a thumb slipped onto the scale (but again, who cares as there has always been biases, political and artistic which play into these decisions), but also maybe it's also got a lot to do with how much people have realized they actually love it since the last sight and sound poll.

Like, does Schraeder really think the lists of previous years somehow were born out of an absolutely pure critical appraisal, not shaped by the times they were in? The Bicycle Thief was completely fairly number one for awhile and are we going to pretend its politics didn't appeal to the kind of people who were critics at the time? Like, give me a break

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Also, Akerman is scoring #1 but Duras not even making the cut? :O

What a bizarre statement.

It simultaneously claims that there was rigging in how the votes were counted, but also bemoans "expanding the voting community", which has weird "letting the wrong people have a say" vibes.

Anyway, does all the pearl-clutching (including from many people who admit they haven't even seen it!) increase my rating for Jeanne Dielman? No. It wouldn't be my #1 film, but then again I'm not sure that any of my top 5 favorite films appear anywhere on that list, so whatever.

Again: I'd love to see the stats, because my guess is that Jeanne Dielman benefitted from a breadth of votes. It's definitely been more on my radar in the last 3 years (I think I watched it for the first time 2 years ago? I admit the runtime and lack of availability meant I'd put it off a while). It would probably make my personal top 50, and would definitely make my personal top 100. It is, like I wrote earlier, and epic of the mundane, and I think that a lot of people can connect to its portrayal of the kind of social isolation experienced by the main character. It is grounded in some very distinctively female experiences--sex work, motherhood--but the slow-grind pain of an unchanging and unappreciated life is something that taps into a more broad emotional note.

Also, like, it's just a list. And I'm not saying lists can't be important, but I think that the best function of a good list is to (1) provide a resource for someone exploring a new topic/area and (2) generate a good conversation. I bet if I went into work tomorrow and said "What did you guys think of the new Sight and Sound poll?" not a one of my co-workers would even know what I was talking about. No one is going to lean against the copy machine and say, "Well, I was going to check out that Lawrence of Arabia, but I see it didn't make the S&S top 100 this year, so I think I'll pass."

I do feel some skepticism towards Jeanne Dielmann being at number 1, but it has nothing to do with whatever Schrader is rambling about and more to do with critics always highly praising arthouse cinema, especially the kind that isn't easily accessible.

Get Out shouldn't have made the list. Sure it's a good movie, but it has too many flaws for me to consider it anything great, and I actually prefer Peele's other two films at least by a bit.

Gone With The Wind getting knocked off is unfortunate too. While there are things about it that have aged poorly, what it succeeds at it does at incredible length. The complex character portrayals, performances from Leigh, Gable and Havilland, the beautiful photography and powerful storytelling are legitimate reasons for me to consider it a near-masterpiece.

As someone who is usually adverse to modern inclusions though, I will say there is one choice I feel is 100% deserving. I'm not gonna spoil what it is since the 2010s showdown is coming up soon, but I will actually be upset if that one doesn't show up.

I'm pretty sure this is more attributable to the fact that there weren't very many female directors for the first few decades of filmmaking. The upsurge in female directors is gonna fix that. Hopefully we'll get another Varda soon (and ever since I saw Greta Gerwig's Lady Bird, I've been kinda hoping that the Barbie movie ends up amazing).

I watch Ouran. Gimme a break.

As for my opinions on the list, you're not gonna believe this. I've seen exactly half.

First, the list looks super-typical for critic's choices. I mean, it's bad enough we could all predict 2001 getting in the top 10, but the only two animated movies were Ghibli? No It's Such a Beautiful Day? Do they have a cult that believes the devil has black circular ears? And how come the only two horror movies on the list that I can remember catching are the two most obvious choices ever: The Shining and Get Out?

Second, while I promote female directors, the plot of Jeanne Dielman gives off the vibe that the critics were thinking more politically than usual. Hell, the ratings between Imdb and RT prove this all the time. I probably wouldn't have said anything had it been a less blatantly obvious choice in that regard like Cleo from 5 to 7.

Of course, I rarely trust newspaper lists like these with honest opinions. After Rolling Stone, I have difficulty with most of them. This is why I prefer personal user lists.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

So where did Stunt Rock end up? I've searched the list like 10 times and I can't find it.

Why can't he just be a person with an opinion?

When a six year old wins at chess you don't tell the six year old that you let them win. BFI decided that they wanted a diverse group so they manipulated the game to get the results they wanted. What they actually did was piss away fifty years of credibility pushing lies. This list is like ranking Jane Austen over Shakespeare but because Jane Austen doesn't exist in cinema they decided to prop up Danielle Steel.

Jeanne Dielmann is not a masterpiece it is an exercise in masturbation. It's a stunt, a fraud, and a trick meant to embolden and pander to the lowest aspect of us all. It exists to feed an ego, to puff up chests and mock those of us that care about art and film history. The headlines tell you all you need to know...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63829976
Jeanne Dielman: Film directed by woman picked as best ever


It's a movie by a lady so even though it's 50 years old and has never been considered a classic that 95% of the people have never even heard about it's a lady movie so it's the best ever and shut up about it and don't think.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Jeanne Dielmann is an excellent film and a worthy number 1.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

Picking something that most of the "unlearned," or "unlicensed" shall I say, would seem like the smart choice in the long run because any critic can say that those who don;t like the movie just aren't in tune with "art" as them. But that argument discounts that we have brains, and that we not only CAN use them, but we have the right to use them and voice the results.

I’ve had trouble….I guess connecting is the word….with his few films I’ve seen so far. Woman under the Inlfuence, Killing of a Chinese Bookie for example.
I feel like I need to rewatch the latter because it was well over a decade ago and it’s possible I may not have been ready for his style?
Woman under the influence was more recent and I wasn’t a fan of Rowland’s acting.

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

i think people just like the movie a lot

Re: Opinions on BFI 2022 Sight and Sound Poll
 

I don't know, I don;t hate the half I've seen so far, but I can see why it would be a really easy movie to hate without finishing. Me, I finish almost everything I watch, so I rarely run into this problem. As such, one could attribute high ratings with the fact that this is a movie that haters of the first half-hour wouldn't typically finish.

I know they didn't have Imdb or such back then, but if Akelman planned it that way to keep the high critical ratings, that would actually be genius.

I think you are underestimating the number of people who freely rate movies they haven't seen at all, much less only watched the first half of.

I can see a wide range of typical human beings doing it, but but would most critics actually do that if they had to write reviews? If that's the case, we can more safely assume dishonesty in the ratings, not to mention scripture mentality based on past critics; decisions, as well as social-philosophical bias. In the event of the former, it would explain the high number of arthouse and experimental films present in the list, as well as the notion that BFI told them what type of movies to vote for. In the event of the latter, I wouldn't be surprised if Gone With the Wind was knocked off for its portrayal of African Americans, and that Get Out was put on for being a pioneering movie about racial tension from the perspective of an African American.

Now I haven;t seen Get Out, but even though I gave GwtW a five-star, it's nothing compared to Fleming's other 1939 film, The Wizard of Oz, which has been in my top 20 for a couple years.

Not critics, no. Sorry, I misread and thought you were talking more about IMDb.

I think that the runtime of the film is integral to what it's trying to portray. It is important to feel the minutes ticking by and to understand that this is the merest fraction of this woman's everyday life. I suppose in a cynical way you can say it's a gimmick, but so are things like the first person point of view in Dark Passage. I think that if something is done with genuine purpose that aligns with the heart of the film it's disingenuous to dismiss it as being superficial provocation. I think that the film is provocative in its own way, but not superficially so.


EDIT: I just want to be clear that people can dislike Jeanne Dielman and even specifically dislike its length and feel like it's a slog and think it's a style choice that really doesn't work.

But I think there's a difference between disliking a film or finding it boring and accusing it of being a ploy or assuming the director is not being genuine in their intentions.

I just want to say hurrah for Close-Up and Portrait of a Lady On Fire - only seen 64 out of the 100, with many surprise "Why have I never heard of that?" entries. Seems like an incredibly atypical list with surprise entries everywhere.

(Seen 70/100 of the directors poll)