Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

Apologies if this topic has been done before.

I was reading an old article about the wonderful “Luther” actor Idris Elba being touted to replace Daniel Craig in upcoming James Bond movies when Craig leaves the role.

Admittedly, I at first thought this would be a mistake, and just pure tokenism. James Bond the character is a white man and I don’t get the need to change such a basic physical feature.The more I think about it though, the more I think somebody like Elba would bring something good to the role.

What do you think

i dont care, james bond movies suck bulls.

In essence it doesn't matter if Bond is black or white, as long as he's cool, good looking and more old school than he is now.
The character evolved into a modern emotional action hero these days with Daniel Craig (who does a fine job at that), while I think he should be more than that. I still enjoy the films, but I wished they went back to the more intimate style of the first Connery films.
I do admit that it is harder for a black actor to play the James Bond I personally would like to come back, but it is possible if he finds the right nuances for the role. I would certainly be skeptical in the beginning, though.

I'm not sure why they would make Bond black, though. I personally don't see why it's necessary.

As long as he's British and smooth. Is there an English equivalent to Isaiah Mustafa?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

http://latimesherocomplex.files.word...pg?w=592&h=600

How times have changed... :p

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

The crucial factors are that he looks physically credible in action scenes and can convey Bond's cool confidence. So, body type and attitude matter, not race. I'd be very interested to see a black Bond.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

Would be political correctness gone too far. I'm sure it will happen one day. No one will be brave enough to stand up and say no way.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

Why is it "political correctness"?

Because when James Bond was created he was done so, as far as I am aware, as a white British male. This is the character and if they changed it it would only be for the sake of having a black actor to show racial diversity and all that.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

I never considered Bond's race important while I was watching a damn spy action-thriller.

Well, they already made Moneypenny black in the last film and M was a woman for the last seven movies. James Bond is also described as a chain smoker in the books, while he didn't touch one single cigarette since 1989 (except for one cigar in Die Another Day).

They obviously don't give a damn anymore about the original source material, so they might aswell make Bond himself black. It wouldn't be such a big shock to me.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

When has his being white ever really mattered in any of the movies?

Would it make sense to remake SHAFT with a Japanese actor? How about a Chinese SHERLOCK HOLMES? It all comes down to the character Ian Fleming created, and that character was white, not black. If you change something as fundamental as a character's skin colour, it's no longer the same character.

Bond isn't the same character as he used to be, regardless of his skin color.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

Wesley Snipes should play Bond.

The blond hair didn't ruin it for me.

Shaft was a racially conscious movie, anyway. Bond is an action figure that has evolved over time.

Until the producers drop "Ian Fleming's James Bond" from the titles, the character is still based on Fleming's creation.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

The most important thing for me is that the actor is British. But Luther? I can't picture him as Bond.


Yes, on another message board where you got 4 pages worth of replies... :)

It's just a name. The James Bond of the films and the James Bond of the books are two COMPLETELY different characters.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

So were some of you also against the new Nick Fury too?

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

Lets have LOTR full of black and muslim faces playing Nordic characters.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

There are black British men, you know.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

Yes I know I live in the UK. It would be more realistic to have a Muslim play James Bond as MI6 are full of them atm, due to opeating mainly in the Middle East for last 12 years or so.

Wow, realism isn't the point either way. James Bond as a character is primarily defined by attitude in my mind. Who cares who he was born to as a human being?

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

I say that because my mate actually applied to MI5/6 after Uni but was told they were only recruiting people of Middle East appearance. Aswell as boys from all the Top schools and secret handshake clubs ofc.

I really don't get what the big deal is about a black Bond for a few pictures. :shrug: It's not as if one race is gonna steal another's cultural icon and not give it back.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

Sure, I can dig it. But I also hope they do it because they've got someone good in mind, and not as a cheap PR stunt if the franchise starts falling off, which is probably the more likely reason it'll happen.

Then producers should stop paying all that money to the Fleming Estate. :rolleyes:

It will be seen as a politically correct move. Like having Obama as Pres for example.;)

Like TV adverts packed full of minorities.

No, they shouldn't. The films are still based on Fleming's books and characters (and can use their names), so they rightfully 'pay all that money to the Fleming Estate'.

So which Fleming book featured a black James Bond for them to base a film on?

Right on. As long as the creative talent is there, I don't mind because Hollywood is about making money, anyways.

It's a silly idea that has nothing to do with Fleming.

I don't care what it'll be seen as politically. Lots of movies change stuff, for better or worse. Why is race so different?

Silly how?

Why are you focusing so much on the 'black' part?

It also didn't feature a non smoking blonde James Bond, a female M or a black Moneypenny.

It features a secret agent called James Bond, who works at MI6 and who has ingenious spying- and womanizing skills. That's the basis of the character that they are still using and that could perfectly be performed by a black actor.

The real question that the film makers should ask themselves when choosing an actor to play James Bond is if he will make a believable and interesting own version of the character it is based on and if audiences will enjoy it. I don't see what skin color has to do with any of that.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

I have no problem with a black James Bond, or a black Batman, which people seem to be getting mad about.

Bond's ethnicity does not play a big role in his back story (correct me if I'm wrong). If it did, then maybe I'd have an objection.

No, Batman has to be white forever because he's rich. All white people are rich and every other race is poor. :D

YES! Change EVERYTHING!! The next Bond should be from Krypton and he should also be the first 007 to give birth!!! I would ditch the Aston Martin in favour of a tricked-out skateboard and instead of a tux he should wear tank tops and jeggings!

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

In fact, that should be the title of the next Batman... Batman White Forever.

What is the subject of this thread again?

No, his personality and skill as a super-spy are what matter. Will dark skin ruin that?

He can still come from Krypton and be a working mother.

In the books, do other people constantly remark on how white he is? Are there are a lot of plot twists and action scenes that depend on skin being light?

You're introducing absurdities and overstating your case. There is an enormous difference between making him black and making him, say, an alien zombie with three heads from Mars.

How would black skin alone automatically make for a wildly absurd Bond if his personality and skills are present?

Believe it or not, the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of this thread is what an awesome Bond Idris Elba would make.

There shouldn't be a black Bond for many years. Bond fans need to feel happy first about the new Felix Leiter and Moneypenny characters!

I once produced an off-off-broadway play, and was casting for the part of a low-key Brooklyn Italian Godfather. A black actor auditioned poorly (doing an uncanny George Jefferson imitation) and asked what his chances were for the part. I told him truthfully he wasn't right for it, and he claimed I wasn't giving him a shot because he was black. Fact was, I simply didn't believe him as that character. Even though the part was written as Italian, his physical attributes play second fiddle to his making us believe he's that guy. It's called acting. If a black actor convinces us he's James Bond, then he's James Bond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo


@earlsmoviepicks: Exactly. There shouldn't be an advantage or a disadvantage. It all depends on the quality of the actor to be believable as the character.

It's a different case when you're playing a character whose ethnicity is important for the script/story. This isn't the case for James Bond.

I'm glad you asked. :) People of different colour obviously will have experienced Life differently, which in turn would have an influence on personality. Skills can be learned, but life experience is unique and greatly affected by things such as background and the obstacles placed in our path on the way to maturity. As a youth, a black Bond will have experienced racism in its many forms in ways completely unknown to the character Ian Fleming created, which in turn would inform his personality and make him quite a different man than anything found in Fleming. He would be a totally new character, so why call him James Bond? It's completely unnecessary.

What is a white personality, to you? What is a black personality, to you? Explain what there is about Bond's personality that no black man could ever have, and how you would know that.

Why don't you explain to me why you think they would be so interchangeable?

I've said multiple times why I think so.

You talk about his skills as a secret agent; you don't talk about the man himself and how he came to be that man.

He's confident because he's white, you mean? Is charm a white trait? If he was a superhero, would womanizing would be his White Power? Assertiveness is fo massah? You tell me which of those traits are For Whites Only.

Do all white men have to have that fictional character's background to be cool? Are all black people lacking those traits, in your mind, because they weren't born exactly in X time and place according to Ian Phlegming?

What about this? Still haven't got an answer...

?

I never implied any of those things, but background and experience play a huge role in who we become. When creating a character, the author imbues his creation with certain traits and backstory, and naturally this is true of Ian Fleming's James Bond. Change the traits and historical background and he's no longer Ian Fleming's James Bond, he's just another action hero.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

What traits are changed with skin color?

Ask any non-Caucasian what it's like to walk into a room as a visible minority -- ethnicity influences life experience, it's a fact.

Btw, I couldn't give a ***** less about Ian Fleming's books. Haven't read any, and not planning to. The movies are all over the place in terms of tone and realism. They're fun but they aren't some philosophy or religion anyone must strictly adhere to, except maybe Fleming lemmings.

OK. That is a pretty good argument and I'll try to refute it.


Let's just say Idris Elba becomes the next James Bond (hypothetically).

http://www.spletnik.ru/img/2013/03/u...-prince-17.jpg

First of all the background you are talking about, wouldn't be very different from the current James Bond. His relatively rich parents get killed when he's still a child (or maybe in this case, he's adopted and his adoptive parents die) and he grows up with another rich member of the family (which is regarded as what officially happened to the original James Bond) or maybe he is immediately put in a kind of spy training programme or something like that.

They are constantly changing Bond's background in the film series, so there are plenty of possibilities. The point is, that the skin color doesn't necessarily mean that his youth was different from the original 'white' character of the books. They don't even have to explain it in the film. I'm just saying that being black shouldn't necessarily change him into a completely different or unbelievable character.

One thing is sure: he shows signs of extreme intelligence and skills and is therefore simply the best in pretty much everything he does. Skin color doesn't really matter if you have that kind of talent. You're above everything. Everyone will look up at you.

Because, according to my theory, the 'black James Bond' grew up in pretty much the same environments as the 'white James Bond', I don't see why his personality would be so different than the Bond we have now.

He could still be a snobbish, stylish, cynical, brilliant, slightly tortured (in the last movies this characteristic is getting more obvious), womanizing secret agent who calls himself Bond... James Bond and who likes his Martini shaken, not stirred.


P.S.
I'm not saying there HAS to be a black Bond, but I'm just stating that it doesn't necessarily harm the essence of the character or the series, if executed properly.

Now I understand your point of view on this. :p

Gonna give me the rundown on each minority's personality?

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

I think it's pretty obvious that being a minority race changes your experience of living life. It has to. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest that nobody notices or cares about anyone's race, which we know isn't true.

The danger, of course, comes from trying to glean specific conclusions or form expectations for specific people from this general truth.

Would like to, but I cannot, since I cannot know how it feels to be a particular minority. I only know their experiences would be different from my own, and that their character would be informed accordingly.

Then you must have a problem with what the film series have become anyway, I guess?

Thank you. :)

Each actor has put their own spin on the character, but the physical characteristics of the character have been consistent.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

All white?

Perhaps they could make James Bond a female - JANE BOND! :D

Ian Fleming, who created James Bond, made the character white. What's wrong with that? The real-life British spy Fleming based the character on was white, also.

Well, I did suggest he should be a working mother in the next re-boot! :D

I agree, but isn't it different in some cases?

I mean, if a rich family adopts a black baby and he pretty much grows up in the British high class and shows many great qualities. Do you really think the kid would experience that many problems?

I'm just fantasizing here in the context of the James Bond character.

@Quagmire: What are your thoughts on my earlier post?

I replied to your earlier post(s).

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

What's wrong with a black Bond?

Not to my long post. :)

Okay, but he also wrote him with dark hair. Does he have to have dark hair? He placed him in a specific time frame. Does he have to stay in that time frame? The former is pretty superficial, but the latter isn't.

The point, of course, is that his race isn't really what makes James Bond who he is. And while I agree that being a minority race changes your experiences, that's not quite the same thing as suggesting it's integral to the character. It certainly doesn't rule out the possibility of a young black man growing up into the type of character Bond is.

Well, I'm just talking about differences, not necessarily "problems." But yes, wealth would probably mitigate a lot of it. That said, in order for Bond to be wealthy you'd have to change his backstory, and I think it's fair to say that his being an orphan is a pretty integral part of who he is.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

It's not exactly the same thing, but if you're concerned with tradition and political correctness, what about Shakespeare and Othello? Undoubtedly conceived as a role to be played by a white actor, albeit most times in blackface, Othello has been played by some of the greatest white actors in history, and some of them in the last 25 years. Is it political correctness that he's now played by a black? I don't really want to change the subject, but generally acting is all about being able to convince others that deep down you're somebody else. Therefore, I don't see the big deal in "role reversals". I don't think it has to be a gimmick, especially with a character like Bond who's been played by so many different actors already.

Hair colour is not going to change the character Fleming created; he could be bald. And sure, a young black man could grow up into the type of character Bond is, but he wouldn't be Bond because Bond has an established history already.

Sorry, I missed that one. :D Elba is a wonderful actor and he would make a fine action hero -- but Bond has an established history and if you're going to disregard that history it isn't James Bond.

What's wrong with a gay Bond?

As I said, the hair example was superficial (but then, skin color is, too). But the more pertinent question was the one about time frame. Why isn't that an issue? It inarguably changes Bond's "established history."

A black James Bond?! I'm still trying to get over the black Nick Fury.

People might take flack about their hair, but they're rarely persecuted for it.

It feels silly to even talk about this, but I'm fairly certain I've seen research that says bald men are perceived quite different than those with lush heads of hair, particularly in regards to confidence and attractiveness: two pretty huge parts of Bond's personality, I think you'd agree.

But nevermind that. As I've suggested a couple of times, the time frame argument is the more significant one, and the fact that you keep skipping over it to talk about hair is feeling a mite conspicuous.

A bald Bond would be cool.

http://i2.cdnds.net/12/11/300x225/mo..._nick_fury.jpg

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

I think the problem is more James Bond is an icon, an image, a brand. Nicky Fury, M and Moneypenny are not really are they. I am not saying I would personally have anything against it, but I can see why others would and hope it would be done for the right reasons. I think also with James Bond a lot of the earlier films are kind of racist in their stereotypes of certain people, especially blacks and Asians, not so much in recent films I know, but it could affect things.

I dunno. What? He could still be promiscuous, just with men.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

Yeah, there are probably two questions here that are getting a little tangled together: whether or not there's any inherent problem with casting a black man as James Bond, and whether or not there's going to be any actual problem. I don't think there's an inherent problem, but I think the chances of it being done for shallow, superficial reasons that end up changing the core of the character are fairly high.

I don't know what you're getting at with the "time frame" thing, but I'd like to point out that the bald look is very much "in" today; bald is "sexy" now, but the comb-over never will be.

Re: Would you support the idea of a black actor playing James Bond?
 

It's bad enough that they made Bond politically correct in regards to women in Goldeneye. He should have remained a male chauvinist pig as far as I'm concerned.

How about a gay black Bond with turrets?

Good post. :up:

That and $$.

Tourette's is a disorder.

The difference between living in 1960 and 2012 is significant, which means that placing Bond in a modern setting dramatically changes the "established history" of the character, which is the reason you give for stating that a black Bond wouldn't be a "real" Bond. So are all modern Bonds also not "real" Bonds?

Yes, but it would humanize Bond a little more. I know it's not what Fleming wrote but then we're ignoring that... :p

I never made that argument. The Bond films have always been set in a contemporary timeframe; they've never been period pieces.