No you're misunderstanding me or I'm not explaining properly. I want to know why it's a racial murder instead of just a murder with the information we have now. And I never said whites have it tough.

Convince me and give me an example. I don't feel like watching Ahwell's video, no offense Ahwell.

Open a history book.

No "might be" anything. He's racist. Ask any protester and they'll tell you that the murder was racially motivated.

I repped you because I know you're kidding.

I'm not saying it is a racial murder or not. I am saying he murdered him. All the racial undertones coming up from this is important regardless.


Do I think he killed him because he was black? No. I think he was treated the way he was because he was black. Which just so happened to result in his death.

And still, nobody can give me an example. It's not just you, it's a pattern.

There's a lot of things we agree on. There's nothing wrong for you to think he was treated that way because he was black, and I would not dismiss the idea at all. What is wrong is for the media to label it a racial murder. We need to know things to improve things, not guess. That's what I believe.

You do not feel the need to learn about the history of suffering experienced by other races at the hand of the white man? Or acknowledge that there is a history of systematic oppression that has influenced current day power dynamics?

That, in and of itself, is white privilege.

Repped you by accident LOL No that's not what I'm saying, but it is a trend for people to put words in my mouth. I'm asking someone to give me an example of white privilege.

OK so since nobody can give me an example, I'll give my own example coming from this former presidential candidate –

https://youtu.be/QN3ZkDCzxUI

Anybody agree with her?


Wonder why she didn't last long.

I just did. Your reluctance to acknowledge that history has an effect on current day events is white privilege.

In an effort to show solidarity with the protesters, I just looted cricket's underwear drawer. This is what I found:

https://i.imgur.com/5N4ZYrQ.jpg

I'd try them on but there's stains in the back. :sick:

I never said it didn't. Black people have had horrible times. I'm trying to skip your point here because it's a waste of time. Just give me an example.

And this time make sure your example is something that provides a benefit to me.

I never held with the idea of 'sins of the father'. That type of thinking negates individual responsibility. Nor do I believe in collective guilt of a race, people or country. There's only individuals who can decide to do right or decide to do wrong.

You skipping the point because you think it is a waste of time is white privilege.

Either history has no effect on current day and race doesn’t play a factor in day to day life, or history does effect the current day and current race relations have been shaped by that history.

Thanks for the video. I've been trying to learn about systemic racism but couldn't find a good jumping off point to put things into perspective. This helped a lot.

It does not negate individual responsibility. It necessitates action to unlearn the good/bad dichotomies about race, and it compels action to correct the systems of power that teach those dichotomies.

We are products of the stories taught to us, and this is effectively saying that isn’t the case.

OK you're not going to give me an example of white privilege. I didn't think so. Maybe next year.

I'll give you an example of an experiment I was a part of in high school.


The class was history and the topic was racism in modern times. My partner and I decided to do an experiment at a blockbuster.


We wore similar clothing, loose jeans and a hoodie with a backpack. I would walk in, look around for ten minutes and leave, he would do the same.


I walked in, looked around for ten minutes and left. I was never talked to once (poor customer service) never followed and never asked to leave my backpack at the door.


Staff of two people.


My friend, whom is black walks in. He's asked to leave bag at door and one of the employees followed him throughout the store. 5 minutes in he was asked to leave.


I had the privilege of not being harassed. That's just my own personal experience, my first real experience on how black people live in the world.

It's so true, living in the past does not help you in the future. Identity politics is a bitch. I don't even like talking black people or white people. That's what I want to get rid of and for some reason nobody seems to agree.

The resume thing has been mostly debunked, FWIW. It didn't control very well for economic factors. Another study was conducted where they chose "high-class" and "low-class" sounding names within each racial group and found a correlation there, instead. Same kind of response with perceived "low-class" white names.

It's pretty striking how often examples of racism turn out to be explained by economic factors. Of course, that can be influenced by race, but that's a distinction most people don't seem to make, if they're even really aware of it. And just to confound things a bit more, that generational wealth gap should logically persist even if you thought current policies were perfectly equitable. Naturally, if nobody points any of this out, most of these discussions are just people talking past each other.

It's a great experiment and it was unfair to your friend. The problem with this specific example, is that not being harassed is not a privilege. You shouldn't be harassed. It can't be a privilege if it's the way it's supposed to be. If you want to make the argument that your friend was underprivileged or something like that, I can go for that.

This is spot on. I believe the bigger problem is economic inequity, which does have to do with racial sins of the past. However, white people only cannot fix it. The African-American community has to improve in some areas. That's why I keep saying it takes all of us. Let's identify the problems and solve them all together. I can't fathom why this enrages people.

Indeed, but the telling thing is that the theft of generational wealth has occurred repeatedly. The most recent of which was the urbanization renewals that took place in the late 60s and 70s. In that particular instance, property owned by minorities was stolen at a fraction of its cost in order to increase the tax revenue of cities. This was effectively a double dip situation as the property was acquired through condemnation for cents on the dollar or at no cost at all, and then the newly acquired tax revenue was used to improve white neighborhoods whilst the population that was displaced has been left to languish in dilapidated communities. And this happened ALL over America.

But, ya know, no one seems to want to admit that history has an effect on these kinda things.

A lot of things are supposed to be certain ways and they are not.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/theunde...privilege/amp/




I'm just gonna stop though because I dont want to turn the death of an unarmed black man into a debate about white privilege. I dont even know what people are arguing about anymore. A person is dead, things need to change.

Nobody has said anything about history not being a factor. Now to the important stuff, what is the solution? I don't think labeling things as racial incidents with no evidence to support it is part of it.

I don't think there will ever be a solution.


Unfortunately.

At least not in our lifetime.

I don't see an example of white privilege there but it is a black man talking about the concept of white privilege. Is that black privilege? Just wondering since if a white person talked about black "anything", they'd be labeled a racist.

Again, we all agree on the George Floyd murder, it was awful

Yeah I don't think in our lifetime unfortunately either. I do think it can happen but there's too much that has to be done.

Seriously? Give me a break man, come on.

The evidence is history, so the case is shut and close.

And what about spending tax revenues to improve neighborhoods that have been largely ignored in favor of white/rich/already pretty good looking communities?

My own city is dealing with it right now. We stole generational wealth located at the heart of our city to build some of the ugliest **** ever. We destroyed our city’s history and its beauty so as to push minorities across the railroad tracks, out of the city, and leave them to languish for the last 60 years. Now that we are working to improve those areas we are having to heal the pain of that history, and that’s precisely what is needed to start fixing the issue. We have to confront the actions that have lead us to where we are and effectively condemn them. Not act like they have no bearing on current day and belittling the pain of an entire community.

But really, there's a lot of people who find that term offensive. And I think it's wrong to label a whole group of people by their skin color. Take black, Indian, Asian, eskimo, anything you want, I don't think it's right.


And just to be clear with my basic beef. A lot of people have suffered because of the rioting and some have lost their lives. If this wasn't looked at as a racial incident, it may not have happened. With no evidence of it being racial, labeling it as such is irresponsible and dangerous. I blame the media mostly, but nobody should be so careless.

History is evidence that a future incident is race related? Credibility gone.

The rioting are people taking advantage of a sh*tty situation.


The cops are out of line, above and beyond with how they are handling the protesters.

100%, just wondering if it'd still be happening if not pushed so hard by the media as a racial injustice. Maybe, but why force it down people's throats with no evidence.

I’m just glad I held onto my credibility longer than you did. ;)

@Yoda: I think it’s safe to say this has devolved into “I’m rubber and you’re glue anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you“. 😅

I formal request you shut us all up.

Oh please speak for yourself even if it hasn't worked out for you yet:)

You’re just sore I need two hands to count all that white privilege you got. :D

In Seattle it looked like the majority of rioters were white. Stats on that from actual footage would be interesting. I guess they didn't get their allotment of white privilege that particular day;)

BTW I find the term white privilege to be f'ning ugly. I came from a poor white family, I didn't get to go to college like a lot of you, we didn't live in a big house or get to have a bunch of stuff. So stop telling me I have white privilege.

We have a large homeless problem here around Seattle and outlaying areas. I have yet to see a black or minority homeless person. And I've seen a lot of them, on the streets and on the news. Every one I've seen so far has been white. I guess they didn't get their white privilege either.

I'll tell ya what white privilege is, it's a way that rich white college kids who grew up in a nice home with new cars can alleviate their guilt over having so much while the rest of us have so little...Yoda nailed it, it's about economic privilege. Rich people have rich affluent kids, who get lots of chances due to their money. Poor people have poor kids who have it much tougher and usually end up poor. It's all about economic privilege.

There was flooding when I lived in an apartment on the water before I met my wife. We used to live on the first floor, which got flooded, so then we moved to the second floor. We got another flood, no water damage this time but a loss of power for a few days. I was always out so I stayed while my parents went to a hotel. Went out with my friends and they dropped me off down the street in the middle of the night. They couldn't get down the street because of the water. I had brought a garbage back with me so I stepped into it to walk home. The National Guard ran up and stopped me because I matched the description of a looter. I was drunk but told them that I just got dropped off and pointed to where I lived. They asked for id, and I totally forgot it was my old address. Luckily I had my key and they just followed me to my door. Even more luckily I tried getting into the right apartment which was sometimes a problem. I thought it was funny at the time.

That's what I'm seeing, mostly whites causing the trouble.

I was homeless when we moved from Chicago to Boston. While staying at the Salvation Army I graduated 8th grade at a school with one other white person. Everyone there had more then I did. Never felt privileged either.

White Privilege doesn't automatically mean if you are white you live a better life, it's not a FACT that blankets over every single white person in the world. It is more in line with people in the same social, economic and political circles It's not a term that means white people have never struggled, just like it doesn't mean accomplishments by white people are unearned.

That's part of the reason it shouldn't be used imo.

If white privilege isn't a fact...and doesn't apply to all white people...AND is more in line with people in the same social, economic and political circles...then it's not white privilege at all, it's economic privilege.

See what I think you're doing is: seeing the world from your own viewpoint: your white and not poor...so then you view most all white people as living like you do in relative comfort and then label that white privilege. But that's a fallacy as millions of white people are dirt poor and millions of blacks and minorities are middle or upper economic class.

Perhaps, however white privilege extends to how blacks are TREATED in the US, not just how “economically well off” they are.

And another thing is that I thought we were supposed to be getting away from generalizing people by skin color or any other group that they belong to. I just think it's wrong to do, and the weird thing is that it's the social justice types who use it. It's just so hypocritical, but again, they think they are doing the right thing when in fact they are pissing people off and alienating them. I hear these things and I can't help but think it's people being brainwashed in college.

If we could say that all the white cops involved in black dead suspect cases were caused by racism, then I say yes to that part of it. But of the handful of cases, many of them have been shown not to be racist and to be justified in using force. This recent case IMO was NOT justified and I believe cop should've been charged with 2nd degree murder not 3rd.

I think bad cops get away with this stuff because of the 'thin blue line'... they look at other cops as their own and they take care of their own. It sucks anytime one of these events happen, one life wrongly lost is one too many.

Re: Rioting in the U.S.
 

Gosh I can't spell. Fixed some typos up there.

Ahhhh, everyone always leaves out those poor Asians. But screw them, if the black community is struggling, let's see if we can knock the whites down a peg.

RIP David Dorn, a 77yo retired police officer killed by looters.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...8DdWo&usqp=CAU

Are my eyes deceiving me because he looks black, but none of the stories mention it. Maybe it only matters sometimes.

I do not view all people as having the same social class as me, give me a break. Millions of black people are poor and millions of white people are middle to upper class. There, I just switched it and the fact still remains the same.


You get upset at the notion of white privilege. Those are your own issues to deal with.

Do you really think it's right to generalize people based on skin color? I though that's what racism was. Not calling you racist btw.

@Yoda

Please shut this down. For real. This is doing no one any good.

Doctored!

No, what can I say, your searching skills are better than mine:p

I just find it funny people get butt hurt over a term like that and think its comparable.

You misunderstood my post (or maybe I wrote it poorly). What I was trying to say is, if you believe there's white privilege it's because of your own life's viewpoint. If you and the majority of white people you know have it good, it's easy to hold that up as an example of how most white people live...ergo white people live in privilege. If you were a poor white person your viewpoint would be very different.

If you meant something else by white privelge please explain. It sounded like you were saying economic privilege is white privilege.

Quit posting, don't shut it down for everyone else who wants to chat. But then, who cares about fair?

But it is generalizing people by skin color. How is that not wrong?

Even tho you’re poor have you ever went into a high end shop and looked around and maybe asked a question about something? If you didn’t get a “oh, you can’t afford that” or “you wouldn’t understand what that is” that would be white privilege.

you have made it abundantly clear life ain’t fair for white people

You saw the example he gave me, something that can't even be considered a privilege. In my experience, people either use something like that or something that is actually majority privilege.

Re: Rioting in the U.S.
 

As a Finn, I find this whole white privilege and collective guilt annoying. We (using a similar historical generalization as black) have had our independence for a bit over a century. Before that, we were governed by either Sweden or Russia, and our folks were sent to fight their wars. Finns were also raided and sold to slavery to the east (Russia, Crimea, and even further) in large quantities. We were actually in high demand because we were considered both exotic and capable slaves. We've never had any colonies, either. Where's our historical privilege? What should we apologize to Africans?

I don't take a stance on this latest police brutality case (I haven't bothered to look for a full video, but the coronary report seemed to say that the cause of death wasn't asphyxiation). As a whole, statistics don't support massive, murderous racist tendencies in the US police force (as far as I know white criminals get killed more often per X cases). Statistics do support considerably higher crime rates for black though, which can (and to some degree, should) cause some bias in assessing certain situations.

But then again, I'm the biggest pos on these forums (at least I think that's what Camo once said) :D

Removed some posts. Will close the thread if need be.

Do not reply to this topic if you do not want to discuss it. And repeating things counts as not wanting to discuss it.

I hope we all can agree that George Floyd was murdered by Derek Chauvin. Either Chauvin intended to murder him, or he had a serious problem in his failure to comprehend three simple words, I can't breathe.

Independent coroner stated he did die from asphyxiation.

I think everyone agrees on that.

Did he actually examine the body and since when is someone hired by the victim's family independent? Regardless of that and the fact that you only chose to reply to that small part of my post, I do repeat that I don't have a solid stance on this particular event because I feel I don't have enough information. The main points of my post were the absurdity of white privilege and white guilt from my (Finnish) historical point of view, and the lack of statistical evidence that supports US police rampantly killing black people.

Yea I would say that there's no such thing as independent when the person is hired, but that goes for the other autopsy that was performed as well.

George Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe while he was still standing up, and when people are getting arrested they will say a lot of things. That doesn't matter to me because he didn't need that kind of restraint, he died, and the officer let it happen and/or contributed to it. Morally I think it's just as bad regardless of what the legal defense may be.

If you disagree about the culpability of history in current day society you are a racist.

If you qualify the death of George Floyd in any manner other than complete condemnation you are a racist.

If you claim that white privilege doesn’t exist or can’t exist you are a racist.

If you believe socio-economics are the deciding factor of your treatment in America you are a racist.

If you don’t believe we have a responsibility as society to answer to history you are a racist.

You have always been a racist if these statements apply to you but, if you believe them now, you are actively choosing racism. And I don’t **** with racists clowns. 🤡

Get the wax out of your ears, learn to listen, learn to read, learn to think, learn to have compassion for the shared history of a community and answer for the shared blame. Don’t be a racist clown. 🤡

Apparently, we are more interested in protecting fragile mindsets than fixing things.

If you disagree with this post then I’m pretty sure you missed the day when God was handing out souls.

This place has become a save haven for racists, and I don’t even know why I bother with it anymore. It’s evident that I have to take responsibility for my part in continuing to support such a community, and in light of this weakness I will be largely absent for the coming weeks.

To everyone else in here who has effectively condemned racism: You are the proud owner of a brain and you have a beautiful soul, and I hope you consider your own culpability in continuing to mingle with racists.

https://www.businessinsider.com/whit...rotests-2020-6

https://www.lawfareblog.com/riots-wh...ccelerationism

I've always condemned racism and spoke of not wanting to judge anybody by skin color. If you want me to be honest, I see a lot of what you say as racist.

Re: Rioting in the U.S.
 

The intersection of economics and race is complicated, at minimum. If somebody feels that isn't true, then there's not much to talk about, because they think the world is a lot simpler than I do and any explanations I give them will be unacceptably nuanced.

Anyway, with something like race I look for signs that tell me whether someone is arguing in good faith or not. For example, whether they seem to genuinely want to explain things (though people need to be careful about coming into a heated discussion with the idea that they're just going to instruct others), or whether they seem to be actively looking for a reason to use the "R" word in order to not have those discussions.

Either way, the basic edict of "don't reply if you don't want to discuss this" still applies. I have no patience for clapback theory. I think it's juvenile and tricks people's brains into releasing endorphins for winning arguments they're actively avoiding.

Did he actually examine the body? Did the first examiner examine the body? Is he hiding information to protect his co-workers?


Maybe more examiners should be hired for a general consensus.


From your point of view and many other white people, white privilege does not exist. I think it does. I've never been pulled over because of the colour of my skin, had people follow me in stores, hold onto their purse tighter, etc. This is the world we live in, Cricket would say that's not privilege its black under privilege. To me that's him agreeing with my statements but not wanting to admit it and finding different phrases.


I obviously can't change your mind or open your eyes. You cant change mine or pull the wool over them. I've stated that I'm leaving this thread multiple times but just keep coming back. Nothing is advancing with these discussions, we are going in circles. So when I dont reply to whoever posts a reply; dont take that as an I dont have anything to say, or I'm insulting you. I'm just tired of going in circles.


Like I've said and Cricket, Citizen Rules, John McClane among others...the man was killed, the cops should be found guilty, the riots are wrong, the police are out of line with protestors. We are in agreement with that and I'll take my leave.

That was an honest question. I don't how such legalities work in the US (can anyone bring their own doctors to examine the body?). And I was considering mentioning that isn't the "hiding information" angle a pure conspiracy theory (or is it not, as the cause is just)? I, personally, have more faith to the county coroner.

For me, the big question is where is the line between causality (all of your examples are things that seem to happen to ethnic groups that have considerably higher crime rates than, for example, whites - in Finland Roma are in a very similar situation) and racism (which in my opinion would be purely based on the color of skin and generally just being different). Prejudices are built on information and past experiences, they're rarely born out of nothing.

Re: Rioting in the U.S.
 

I've avoided this, for many reasons, and instead of quoting 50 posts, I'll just say a few things. Socio-economics DOES play a part. I think its a combination of many things, and in a span of a few minutes, the brain working like a computer sometimes act on instinct (which doesn't mean it's accurate and/or fair). Obviously skin color is a huge determining factor, because its something you can't hide and I think most people would rather be racist "inside" than take a chance. To me, there's nothing more annoying than "black lives matter" vs. "all lives matter". I don't like agendas. I support any group protesting, even if I don't agree with them. The more I disagree with something, the more I want to know why.


What I would like is for more to be inclusive about the whole thing. I think its wise if someone on TV says "Black, brown, and poor people are not treated fairly" because then it includes more people, and some who might feel left out would join the cause or at least be conscious of what's going on and investigate more. Or simply using poverty would kill two birds with one stone, but the main thing is, it wouldn't leave out a small percentage of people who won't get noticed, instead of an all-exclusive group, which leads to some people who don't fit a certain group category to feel, "Hey, I've been screwed by the police, but they don't care about me" which I think leads to a backlash, and resentment between mostly poor people, instead of the system itself. I browse on Twitter, and saw a conversation where one said, "Asians don't need affirmative action because they're doing fine". All of them? Isn't that a stereotype? I like to include all people, to emulate a fist, rather than dividing us (making us easier to control and divide) into little fingers. People should also know that most will only see highlights - anything that makes news for the respective news stations (and their target audience). I also think there are agent provocateurs, infiltration, and a distortion of what's happening. If I was against the protestors, I'd spray-paint things like "White Lives Don't Matter" to stir things up, so millions could say "See? See??". I was watching graffiti in NYC which seemed to be by one or two guys by looking at the color and handwriting. The US doesn't seem to have a "let's have a conversation" mindset. People always say "Never discuss politics and religion", until things get out of hand, and then it's all out chaos. I was listening to my neighbors talk while I was on my porch, and when a few criticize our governor (Whitmer), I'm going to assume they might just defend Trump no matter what, even though I don't like either one of them (nor Biden), and when another neighbor told me "I don't know your politics, but Trump isn't setting a good example", then I might not hesitate to criticize him. She really liked when I corrected her phrase of "the lesser of two evils" to "the evil of two lessers". I'm a very political person, and it's exhausting, so I try to avoid it, and have, but I think if everyone spoke what was in their hearts and minds, we might get more ideas, instead of binary thinking without nuance. I bring up my neighbors because I think a lot of people will remain silent unless they speak to their bubble, whether it's people they work with, friends, family, or in the case I mentioned, where I live, because I've lived here for 5 years and have enough chaos in my life and around this area, so I use the internet anonymously sometimes to experiment. I noticed something simple as an avatar can prejudice and manipulate. If for example I say the same thing on a platform, but once doing it with a white beautiful blonde woman and pasting the same exact comment with a man, or an empty avatar. Be interested in accuracy instead of validating things you've thought for years. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I was wrong". People shouldn't be quick to jump at people for feeling a certain way. We can't know everyone's life with a few posts.

No need for multi quote because I can't disagree with anything. It's funny, I feel like I have completely different taste in movies than you do, yet you're someone I usually agree with. With social issues, I also think of you as someone that has very different ideas than me. Yet again, I find it hard to disagree with you because of your thoughtfulness and fairness. You're an interesting cat.

Thank you, and I feel the same about you. Actually, I love half the movies on your Top 10, and I respect someone like you who doesn't mind being the only voice, and I still remember your video post regarding Christine Blasey-Ford, and regardless of a few differences, I think you're sincere and coming from a good place. Politically, I feel like I'm on an island, because I think political correctness is the ultimate prejudice, and I just can't go with whatever is acceptable (so when groups change, all of a sudden their principles go out the window?) and over 20 years, I've become more lax on some social issues such as guns and immigration, or at least not high priority. I guess I just don't like group-think or when people tell others how they can or cannot feel.

I liked your post, lots of interesting thoughts there. I like the idea of all of us being a strong fist, instead of being divided into fingers that don't always work together.

News media=agent provocateurs, I like that, very true. To me the news has morphed into anti-news that tells a bit of the truth and screams it over and over until that small bit of the news story becomes the whole story of humanity. If we had serious and complete news coverage instead of the 10 second sound bite things might be a whole bunch better.

It doesn't matter whether he said it before, or after, he was being pinned down. The cops should have heeded his pleas. Chauvin is a murderer.

I'm not defending the guy and I think I've made it clear what I think of him. However, I'm afraid this might be a big problem from a legal standpoint.

I have a question for everyone who's watch the full video of the arrest of George Floyd:

How much pressure does it look like the cop Derek Chauvin used with his knee? Does the video look like he had his full weight pressed into into the suspects neck?

Could George Floyd move and/or lift up his head our shoulders at all?

Can any of that be told by the video?

Has there been expert discussion on news programs about the amount of pressure?

I was thinking about this and I'm sure it will come up in court. I haven't been able to watch the whole video as it's just too upsetting. I am concerned that things are going to get a lot uglier because I'm not confident any of these guys get convicted.

Re: Rioting in the U.S.
 

Yeah, I saw some stuff from one of the autopsy reports that, if true, would make a conviction difficult.

You've got various serious heart conditions, multiple hardcore drugs, and on top of that he tested positive for corona. I have no idea which of these are relevant, but you just have to put doubt in a jury's mind. I thought it was for the best when he was originally charged. From what I understand, it was upped to murder 2 in order to charge the other officers. When I saw that I thought oh crap. Now you have to prove intent. I was already seeing black experts in different fields saying how it doesn't make sense that he intended to murder him. Plus, can he get a fair trial and is that an issue? How much pressure was he putting on his neck? I've heard a lot of people in law enforcement condemn that technique but how was this guy trained and does it matter? Did they use more force because they became aware of his criminal history and if so what would the jury think? This guy was clearly in distress and he went down on his own. He may have been facing significant time if he did indeed pass a bad bill. Being arrested like that and knowing the trouble you're facing can affect your health very easily. It's very murky and that makes the case against the other officers murky as well.

I couldn't tell for sure.

Heard one news commentator say the cop was moving his other foot freely which indicated he had his full weight on George.

In the video, the cop addressing the crowd says something at one point like, "He's talking, so he isn't choking." or "He's talking, so he's breathing."

I remember something like this from first aid classes - involving choking requiring the Heimlich maneuver - if the person can talk, even in a strained way - then they are getting air through their trachea, so there's no need to start panicking (although action is necessary as whatever is restricting their airway could shift and get fully clogged) - it's when they go silent and can only motion with their hands that immediate, forceful intervention is required.

HOWEVER, that applies to a blocked airway usually from food - not from having your neck crushed under a knee which could both restrict the airway AND restrict blood flow through the carotid artery.

Do you think his trial will be fair though? How do you assemble a jury for a trial like this? If he isn't convicted more cities will burn, and I think everybody probably knows that.

Re: Rioting in the U.S.
 

Think about how screwed up this all is for the other three officers as well. You know for sure they didn't intend for Floyd to die, they just got caught in a terrible situation and now their lives are potentially ruined.

I heard it was one of the guy's 4th day on the job. Yikes.

Yea it's a tricky situation if you're one of the other cops. Do you make a scene and knock the guy off him, then Floyd suddenly gets up and injures one of them. Not only that, you're suddenly not trusted by guys who you count on to watch your back. One of them could have been a hero but it's easy for us to say.

I do hold them accountable for failing to intervene.
Chauvin may have been the senior officer, but they wouldn't had to have challenged his authority to just tap him on the shoulder and whisper in his ear, "Hey, man, we're being filmed and the guy's saying he can't breath - we don't want another Eric Garner situation - he's already cuffed so let's try to put him in the car again."

I highly doubt any of them thought Floyd was telling the truth. They probably thought Floyd was doing what a lot of people do: lying. Cops have to deal with people actively trying to get one over on them and lying to them all the time. It's very easy to armchair quarterback this thing, but I can't honestly say I would have done anything different than any of the other three officers. I can clearly say that I wouldn't have done what Chauvin did, but the other three, I don't honestly know. It's not easy to speak up sometimes, especially in the heat of the moment. Then you have to consider that you have to keep an eye on the man on the ground and the potential crowd of people that can close on you quickly. I'm not saying they handled it correctly, because the end result kind of lets us know that clearly the optimal conclusion was not the one we got.

From what I understand one of the officers did say something. It will be interesting to see if they treat the three of them exactly the same. I don't think they can do that.

Yes, I did JUST hear that on the news.

Conflicting reports: I only heard this once on a news show (and haven't heard it repeated anywhere since), and I don't remember who said it, but someone claimed that while Chauvin was kneeling on Floyd, the two other officers (not seen in the main video) were kneeling on Floyd's back thus compressing his lungs while Chauvin compressed his airway.

Well that would definitely be taking part. I'm surprised none of the citizens rushed in. I almost did that once in my wild days when a friend, who happened to be black, was on the ground getting cuffed. There were tons of people around and I was circling them looking for an angle. I'm certainly glad I didn't do it and wouldn't even think of it now. Of course it wasn't a life threatening situation.

Find 12 Amish people who have never heard of Derek Chauvin or George Floyd, or 12 cave dwellers.