The MoFo Top 100 Film Noir Countdown [Archive] - Page 8

Little Ash

04-26-24, 11:08 AM

Yes, I don't want to derail the thread or get into politics, but 'no one felt it was an issue' is surely untrue and I'm not talking about the odd one or two, either. I'm guessing here, but if you were to do a tickbox list of the reviewers of the time in the US/UK/France/etc, white, male and from the country of publication would probably cover 98%+ of them.

One thing worth noting, I'm not sure how much power the Hays Code still had by 1958 for Touch of Evil (people noted it had lost power with Some Like it Hot in 59 and Psycho and 60), but one aspect of it that people often aren't aware of is, it explicitly forbade interracial couples (there was a weird loophole, where the characters could be, but the actors could not). This has some long term, morally ugly consequences. However, as evidenced by the practice of having white stars play people of color into the 21st century, that isn't necessarily the only reason such a casting decision might have been made and I'm less certain if that rule extended to Hispanics as it did to African Americans (presumably, yes?). However I'm guessing it's likely the Production Code would have prevented a Mexican from playing a Mexican married to a white, American woman.

Little Ash

04-26-24, 11:14 AM

Well said🙂...Yup we all have some pretty diverse taste in noirs and we all seem to define what is noir differently...Which is fine by me! I think it's been a great countdown and we all made a really solid noir Top 100 list. It sure beats that BFI Noir list that we have.

I'm trying to find their list now. I've seen it in the past (I'm finding their top 10 Great American Noirs (https://www.bfi.org.uk/lists/10-great-american-film-noirs), and I remember there's a "One Noir from Every Year (https://www.bfi.org.uk/lists/one-great-film-noir-every-year-1940-59) (between 40 and 59)"), which would probably be more to your taste. But I recall the main list (which my google skills are failing me at the moment) is both classic noir and neo-noir, and um, the neo-noir countdown has had some... interesting choices.

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 11:14 AM

98752
#3 The Maltese Falcon (1941)

Director: John Huston
Production: Warner Bros.
Cast: Humphrey Bogart, Mary Astor, Gladys George
799 Points, 49 Lists

'San Francisco private detective Sam Spade takes on a case that involves him with three eccentric criminals, a gorgeous liar and their quest for a priceless statuette, with the stakes rising after his partner is murdered.'

_______________________________________

Iroquois

04-26-24, 11:16 AM

had it at #16

Holden Pike

04-26-24, 11:16 AM

98753

The Maltese Falcon was #4 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1940s.

Allaby

04-26-24, 11:18 AM

The Maltese Falcon is excellent and one of my favourites. I had it at number 2 on my ballot.

Seen: 97/98

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 11:31 AM

Glad to see The Maltese Falcon land so high on our countdown:)

From the often quoted Film Noir IV...which was a blast and we watched a bunch of great noirs, more should've joined!

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.explicit.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.quxDEnoFL8f_lmls9gnduQAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=59f599f9a2ccd689407e3e5e6a9d3a3d895f51890ad13d603d16463265e80799&ipo=images
The Maltese Falcon (1941)

I remember hearing about this movie all my life but I'd never seen it until I got into 'old movies', like 20 years ago. They say you get out of a movie, what you take into it. I took high expectations into my first viewing 20 years ago and came out scratching my head at how this film could be considered so great.

Then I joined MoFo and got into HoFs and hosted the first Noir HoFwhere The Maltese Falcon was nominated and the second time around I liked it a whole lot more! I was impressed with Bogart's performance and Sydney Greenstreet...Peter Lorre as well.

So I watched this for the third time and my opinion went up, way up...The Maltese Falcon is the kinda movie I like to spend time with, it's rewarding in that way. Funny thing is I still think Bogart and Greenstreet were solid and I enjoyed their performances but this time it was Mary Astor who had the acting chops. She pulled off a character who's suppose to be lying and yet seem like she might be telling the truth. She never overplayed it. I watched her performance closely and I'd say she as talented as an actress as any of the greats ever were.

So third watch, loved it.

Miss Vicky

04-26-24, 11:33 AM

I did not like The Maltese Falcon at all. (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=2138032#post2138032) Noir just isn't my genre.

seanc

04-26-24, 11:39 AM

I had already seen Maltese Falcon a couple times, and liked it well enough that it would have been on the back end of my list. So I probably wouldn’t have rewatched it if it hadn’t been nominated for the HOF. Boy was I glad it was, because that script just clicked into place this time. This movie is dark and funny. The humor just really hit me this watch. I finally understood why it’s held up as one of the all time greats. I put it at 8, and that was probably too low.

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 11:42 AM

John Huston is one of the great directors/writers of Hollywood's golden era. One of these days I'd like to watch all of his filmography.

John W Constantine

04-26-24, 12:09 PM

Wow. Had it at #1, was for sure it would take the top spot. Im assuming Double Indemnity will be one of the final two.

seanc

04-26-24, 12:13 PM

Surprised about Sunset Blvd, although I expected it top 10, so I’m not that surprised. Picked Indemnity for the top spot from the beginning, so we shall see. Wilder for the win regardless.

seanc

04-26-24, 12:18 PM

John Huston is one of the great directors/writers of Hollywood's golden era. One of these days I'd like to watch all of his filmography.

I went down a Huston rabbit hole a couple years ago and ended up watching 25. He has some weaker stuff, but his top few are pretty great. He is also a classic auteur in the sense that I don’t really think you see a through line in his filmography. As much as I love my modern directors, I do appreciate how old Hollywood directors seemed much more adaptable to the material. Didn’t always feel like everything had to be from their POV.

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 12:26 PM

I went down a Huston rabbit hole a couple years ago and ended up watching 25. He has some weaker stuff, but his top few are pretty great. He is also a classic auteur in the sense that I don’t really think you see a through line in his filmography.

As much as I love my modern directors, I do appreciate how old Hollywood directors seemed much more adaptable to the material. Didn’t always feel like everything had to be from their POV.I was thinking along those lines last night when I watched a film from one of your favorite directors...and is probably why I don't like the modern auteur POV. Sorry, cause I know you really like this director too:cool:

Harry Lime

04-26-24, 12:27 PM

Looks like we got ourselves a one-two Wilder punch to top off the countdown. That's great and well deserved. We'll see which one is the winner tomorrow but I'm sticking with Sunset Boulevard. I had The Maltese Falcon at #5. Absolute classic of a film and of the genre. All the players are here nailing it, the dialogue is full of memorable lines, and the direction is on point by one of the golden age's best in his debut at that.

1. The Third Man (1949)
3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
4. Touch of Evil (1958)
5. The Maltese Falcon (1941)
7. Notorious (1946)
8. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
9. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
10. Stray Dog (1949)
11. Mildred Pierce (1945)
12. In a Lonely Place (1950)
13. Detour (1945)
14. The Big Sleep (1946)
15. Bob le flambeur (1956)
16. The Killers (1946)
17. Rififi (1955)
18. The Killing (1956)
19. Strangers on a Train (1951)
20. Gilda (1946)
21. Pickup on South Street (1953)
22. Laura (1944)
23. White Heat (1949)
24. Out of the Past (1947)
25. Nightmare Alley (1947)

seanc

04-26-24, 12:30 PM

I was thinking along those lines last night when I watched a film from one of your favorite directors...and is probably why I don't like the modern auteur POV. Sorry, cause I know you really like this director too:cool:

Well, you gotta tell me now

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 12:38 PM

Well, you gotta tell me nowJust check out the new post section on MoFo, I'll be posting about the movie today.

Holden Pike

04-26-24, 12:53 PM

98754

The Maltese Falcon is just a damn near perfect piece of entertainment, and with over eighty years of cinema between us and its premiere it also remains one of the greatest directorial debuts of all time as well, heralding the long, brilliant career of John Huston. A tough, funny, clever, endlessly watchable adaptation of Hammett’s first Sam Spade novel, and along with everything else it was the perfect star vehicle for Bogart. But whole movies could be made about the side characters, especially Greenstreet’s genial fortune hunter Kasper Gutman, Peter Lorre’s more anxious Joel Cairo, and of course Elisha Cook Jr.’s would-be gun thug Wilbur. There should have been a whole series of movies following their misadventures. What affable baddies they are. And Mary Astor’s Brigid "Rhymes with Frigid" O'Shaughnessy, ready to shed a tear or jump into bed if it will advance her towards her goal, and in it for absolutely nobody but herself.

98755

The Maltese Falcon is not in the same class as Casablanca, which reunited Bogie, Greenstreet, and Lorre, but that is only because Casablanca is peerless. But it is similar in that it is endlessly quotable, consummately crafted, and agelessly appealing. Being one of the first dark-hearted mystery thrillers that in retrospect was marked Noir, it is does not have a lot of the visual hallmarks that the genre became known for but its dark humor, colorful villains, and Bogart effortlessly exuding cool make it one of the eternal greats among greats.

The Maltese Falcon was sixth on my ballot.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
1. In A Lonely Place (#6)
2. The Killers (#22)
3. Too Late for Tears (#81)
4. The Set-Up (#46)
5. Out of the Past (#7)
6. The Maltese Falcon (#3)
7. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
8. Odd Man Out (#47)
9. Criss Cross (#44)
10. Stray Dog (#32)
11. The Killing (#11)
12. The Big Combo (#52)
13. Phantom Lady (#69)
14. Born to Kill (#84)
15. Pickup on South Street (#21)
16. The Big Heat (#17)
18. He Walked By Night (#88)
19. Fallen Angel (#80)
20. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
21. Thieves’ Highway (DNP)
22. Panic in the Streets (#98)
23. Black Angel (DNP)
24. Crossfire (#51)
25. The Crimson Kimono (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrQqfL8aiFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C186vXVFk7U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAzFA2qsH-s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WczBp1HPDrY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDilx5W504c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4_Rh2iCthk

stillmellow

04-26-24, 01:04 PM

Maltese Falcon was my #8. One of the all time greats. Love the story and all the performances.

stillmellow

04-26-24, 01:14 PM

The Maltese Falcon is excellent and one of my favourites. I had it at number 2 on my ballot.

Seen: 97/98

Probably not the first to ask this, but which movie was the 1 you hadn't seen?

Little Ash

04-26-24, 01:17 PM

I only watched The Maltese Falcon once and it was in the past decade. I was actually disappointed I didn't care that much for it.

The top two, those are both on my ballot and high up. So, not unhappy about us ending on two Wilders'.

Allaby

04-26-24, 01:21 PM

Probably not the first to ask this, but which movie was the 1 you hadn't seen?

Bob le flambeur is the one I have not seen.

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 01:36 PM

Bob le flambeur is the one I have not seen.I think you'd like that one.

Allaby

04-26-24, 01:41 PM

I think you'd like that one.

I'm sure I will get around to it eventually.

WHITBISSELL!

04-26-24, 02:35 PM

The Maltese Falcon was my #17 pick and the last unclaimed spot on my list. As far as the final two spots go I guess Double Indemnity makes the most sense (it should have made my list). I don't know about the other spot.

1. The Third Man (#4)
2. Out of the Past (#7)
3. High Sierra (#50)
4. Touch of Evil (#5)
5. Ride the Pink Horse (#45)
6. Mystery Street (#93)
7. Gun Crazy (#36)
8. Night of the Hunter (#14)
9. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
10. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
11. Night and the City (#25)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (#13)
13. The Killing (#11)
14. Stray Dog (#32)
15. Strangers on a Train (#18)
16. Key Largo (#26)
17. The Maltese Falcon (#3)
18. Detour (#24)
19. The Narrow Margin (#43)
20. Kansas City Confidential (#53)
21. Where the Sidewalk Ends (#66)
22. Too Late for Tears (#81)
23. The Big Sleep (#8)
24. The Set-Up (#46)
25. House of Bamboo (3 votes, 18 points)

Sedai

04-26-24, 02:37 PM

I had The Maltese Falcon at #6 on my ballot. Somehow, I wasn't aware that this was Huston's first film, and to that all I can say it WOW! What a debut, as it is almost perfectly put together. I think that also speaks to the high level of talent all around in this film.

https://theultimaterabbit.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/the-maltese-falcon-1200-1200-675-675-crop-000000.jpg

As others have said, this is a top notch cast and the performances are fantastic. Although he had a couple of roles previous to this, I feel this is the film that really sent Bogie into the stratosphere as far as stardom is concerned; it's easy to see why.

https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6008bb8bc0f2037494d100e5/Humphrey-Bogart--The-Maltese-Falcon--John-Huston--Danny-Huston--interview--TCM--film/960x0.jpg?format=jpg&width=960

Astor is good, but I have never found her to be overly attractive, and she doesn't have that classic movie star look I am fond of in the ladies of the era. She knocks the role out of the park, though.

https://www.criminalelement.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/mary-astor.jpg

Looks like this solidifies the final two titles for the reveal tomorrow - all the remains is to see how they land.

Holden Pike

04-26-24, 02:49 PM

98764

I had to make some hard choices compiling my ballot. I love Lizabeth Scott so much I could probably have listed five or six of hers and been happy. But I limited myself to two. I knew Too Late for Tears would be way up top on mine, and I figured neither Dead Reckoning (#95) nor The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (#40) needed my help to place on the collective (they did not). So which of the others to choose from? Initially I was going with Pitfall where Raymond Burr plays a terrific slimeball. In retrospect I probably should have gone with I Walk Alone for another pairing of Lancaster and Kirk Douglas that might have had some traction with other MoFos. I didn’t think Desert Fury had any chance of breaking through as one of the few Technicolor Noirs. But I don’t know that a fourth Lizabeth Scott flick was ever going to make it, no matter what I chose. I went with…

The Racket (1951), which gave me not only another Liz Scott title but my favorite male actor of the genre Robert Ryan, too. Based on what was already by then an old play – Edward G. Robinson had starred in the original production in 1927. An RKO flick starring Robert Mitchum as a crusading cop, Robert Ryan as the local gangster he’s tussling with, William Talman about six years before he became TV’s most patient District Attorney Hamilton Burger on ”Perry Mason” opposite Raymond Burr playing a righteous rookie cop trying to do good, William Conrad as a corrupt copper, Ray Collins as the compromised D.A., and of course Lizabeth Scott as a nightclub singer involved with Ryan’s brother who becomes wanted as a prime witness to a murder.

98765

Pretty much what was already considered standard Hammett-like machinations with the good guys trying to out the largely accepted corruption all around them, but elevated by the cast. Robert Ryan is his usual magnetic, despicable self as the volatile villain who doesn’t mind boldly shooting folks to get what he wants, Mitchum handsome but rather restrained this outing as the crusading Police Captain, and Lizabeth Scott as Lizabeth Scott, the beautiful, husky-voiced dame caught in the middle. I can’t tell you with a straight face that this is any kind of neglected masterpiece, I am simply a sucker for Lizabeth.

I slotted it seventeenth on my ballot. Twenty-one of my choices made it. I’ll stand pat there, Dealer.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
1. In A Lonely Place (#6)
2. The Killers (#22)
3. Too Late for Tears (#81)
4. The Set-Up (#46)
5. Out of the Past (#7)
6. The Maltese Falcon (#3)
7. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
8. Odd Man Out (#47)
9. Criss Cross (#44)
10. Stray Dog (#32)
11. The Killing (#11)
12. The Big Combo (#52)
13. Phantom Lady (#69)
14. Born to Kill (#84)
15. Pickup on South Street (#21)
16. The Big Heat (#17)
17. The Racket (DNP)
18. He Walked By Night (#88)
19. Fallen Angel (#80)
20. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
21. Thieves’ Highway (DNP)
22. Panic in the Streets (#98)
23. Black Angel (DNP)
24. Crossfire (#51)
25. The Crimson Kimono (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jphVTDXISsI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGfLxz1NRT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq8qcr7DwIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wi6-SOnAYg

WHITBISSELL!

04-26-24, 02:55 PM

Before we officially leave Welles behind on the countdown, for your listening and dining pleasure, the classic among classics...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyko_oQ0da8Thank you for this. :D They should have just let him take over. It would have been the frozen pea commercial to end all frozen pea commercials.

Sedai

04-26-24, 03:22 PM

Holden's post got me thinking I need to look over my ballot to see what missed, and imagine my surprise when my eyes landed on #17, In a Lonely Place!

WTF??

Until earlier this week, I had never seen that film. No clue how it ended up on my ballot, as I thought I had for sure put The Big Clock in that slot. The Big Clock is missing entirely. What sort of ass-hatted shuffling around was I doing just before ballot submission? Blimey.

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 04:33 PM

Kaplan

04-26-24, 05:03 PM

The Maltese Falcon was my #1. As far as I'm concerned it's the greatest detective movie, hardboiled or otherwise, with the perfect cast that you'd swear Hammett was thinking of when he wrote the book, although Bogart does not match the descriptions of Sam Spade, but I couldn't imagine anyone else in that role and owning as he does.

cricket

04-26-24, 05:15 PM

No one but Mexicans? :shifty:

I think it's a very interesting subject but I see things very differently. Doc is right in that it wasn't controversial back in the day, but yet it was problematic due to, among other things, a lack of prominent roles for minorities. Most will not agree with me, but I view it as the complete opposite today. An actor playing someone of another race or skin color is considered completely unacceptable, but I think it would be a great thing if we could get to a place where the race or skin color simply and truly doesn't matter. Actors often play historical people that they don't resemble by using makeup. Why can't an actor play someone who's a different color? I mean really why not? Have a white man play MLK or a black man play JFK and pull it off, I think it would be a beautiful thing. Just think how wonderful the world will be if people say the skin color is as meaningless as the different hair or eye color. The only way to get there is for everyone to say the skin color doesn't matter. That's when we make progress imo.

Thief

04-26-24, 06:18 PM

I love The Maltese Falcon. I think it's about as perfect as any film could be. Great cast, snappy dialogue, twisty plot, and what an ending... and to think it's John Huston's debut. I thought it had the chance to win it all, but #3 isn't bad at all. I had it at #4 myself.

SEEN: 38/98
MY BALLOT: 23/25

1. Out of the Past (#7)
2. The Third Man (#4)
3. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
4. The Maltese Falcon (#3)
5.
6. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
7.
8. The Big Sleep (#8)
9. Ace in the Hole (#19)
10. Gilda (#27)
11. Criss Cross (#44)
12. Notorious (#20)
13. Laura (#10)
14. Detour (#24)
15. Mildred Pierce (#15)
16. In a Lonely Place (#6)
17. The Narrow Margin (#43)
18. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
19.
20. Gun Crazy (#36)
21. The Hitch-Hiker (#67)
22. The Killing (#11)
23. The Woman in the Window (#65)
24. D.O.A. (#54)
25. Kansas City Confidential (#53)

Thief

04-26-24, 06:21 PM

List facts!

The Maltese Falcon is John Huston's third entry in the countdown, after The Asphalt Jungle (#16) and Key Largo (#26).
The 68-point gap between The Third Man and Touch of Evil is currently the third highest in this countdown.

Miss Vicky

04-26-24, 06:25 PM

Why can't an actor play someone who's a different color? I mean really why not? Have a white man play MLK or a black man play JFK and pull it off, I think it would be a beautiful thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=_NO3LQ691gc

In all seriousness though, beyond inclusiveness and taking opportunities away from minorities, as a viewer I would find performances like that really distracting. People always talk about great performances where the actor "disappears into a role." No white dude is ever going to disappear into the role of MLK and no black man is ever going to be a believable JFK.

If a role isn't written as a specific race, then sure give it to whoever seems best for the role. But racially specific characters and real people? Nah.

cricket

04-26-24, 06:35 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=_NO3LQ691gc

In all seriousness though, beyond inclusiveness and taking opportunities away from minorities, as a viewer I would find performances like that really distracting. People always talk about great performances where the actor "disappears into a role." No white dude is ever going to disappear into the role of MLK and no black man is ever going to be a believable JFK.

If a role isn't written as a specific race, then sure give it to whoever seems best for the role. But racially specific characters and real people? Nah.

I forget the movie, but there was a western from around the 50's in which a white star played an Indian character and it was very distracting. I do think we'd first have to get to a point where minorities are getting the proper amount of roles, but once that time comes, I don't see the difference in playing someone with a different hair color and playing someone with a different skin color. It's just something that if we can get to a place like that, where skin color doesn't matter, that would be the ultimate ideal. I'm speaking strictly on a socially acceptable level. Believability is another matter, but I think we have that anyway when an actor plays someone different.

SpelingError

04-26-24, 06:49 PM

The Maltese Falcon was #11 on my ballot.

rauldc14

04-26-24, 06:50 PM

The Maltese Falcon was #11 on my ballot.

Copycat! Same here!

SpelingError

04-26-24, 06:50 PM

2) Out of the Past
3) Touch of Evil
4) In a Lonely Place
5) Night and the City
6) The Killing
7) The Night of the Hunter
8) White Heat
9) Detour
11) The Maltese Falcon
12) Shadow of a Doubt
13) Ace in the Hole
14) Gun Crazy
15) The Third Man
16) The Postman Always Rings Twice
18) The Stranger
19) Odd Man Out
21) Mildred Pierce
23) Sweet Smell of Success
24) Crossfire
25) The Big Sleep

SpelingError

04-26-24, 06:50 PM

Copycat! Same here!
Or maybe you copied me...

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 06:54 PM

I forget the movie, but there was a western from around the 50's in which a white star played an Indian character and it was very distracting...Was it Apache (1954) with Burt Lancaster and Jean Peters as Apaches? If so yeah it was very distracting, But...good movie and the story line was respectful of Apaches and Native Americans. Jeffrey Hunter played and American Indian in a couple westerns and he was even harder to believe.

cricket

04-26-24, 07:02 PM

GulfportDoc

04-26-24, 08:21 PM

Glad you said that because I know you were there so you would know. I was wanting to look up old reviews of Touch of Evil from back when it was first released. I wanted to see if critics back then complained about Heston's brown face. I'm guessing when people first complained about started after this clip in Ed Wood (1994). Like I pointed out Marlene Dietrich is in brown face too and I've never seen anyone complain about that.
Nice clip from a very good Ed Wood movie. I've sat in that booth shown (and at the bar) in the clip many times. I used to live 2 blocks up the street from Musso and Franks. I was friends with the head waiter, and he used to comp us. It's one of the few iconic places left in L.A.

beelzebubble

04-26-24, 08:21 PM

The Maltese Falcon was my #12. That is how original I am. I can't guess what tomorrow may bring. My list is all up here except for Deception with Paul Henreid, Claude Rains and Bette Davis.

Thief

04-26-24, 08:22 PM

Rock Hudson also played a Native in Winchester '73.

But anyway, all those instances of white people playing other races go beyond just having a "color-less" Hollywood, something I'm pretty sure wasn't in the minds of the casting agents of yesteryear.

First, there's the implication that either there wasn't a Latino/Native American actor capable enough to play a Latino/Native American character, or that you're not willing to give the opportunity to one thus continuing that cycle of limiting the possibilities of minority actors to get quality roles other than "gang member #1", "token Native guy", or "thug #2".

Second, when a studio or filmmaker decides to cast a white character as a Native or Latino, chances are that they also didn't care enough to research the particular intricacies and sensibilities that go with the race/ethnicity, which usually results in one-dimensional and thin characters and stereotypes. Granted, this also happens with minority actors that are properly cast, but mostly because back in the day they didn't have enough "power" in the industry to talk back, demand, or request more layers to their stereotypical characters, which goes back to my first point.

All of this and I'm not even getting into the other struggles that minorities were facing back in the day (or even still!) in pretty much every other facet of their lives, and also not getting into the specifics of Touch of Evil, which included Welles changing the lead character of the book from a white man to a Mexican, and still have a white man play him, or the fact that his character is pretty much the only Latino character with morals.

That's not to take much away from the film. You can read my review, see my rating, and where I placed it in my ballot. But I won't deny the fact that, as a Latino myself, I find the film's execution problematic, to say the least.

GulfportDoc

04-26-24, 08:23 PM

No one but Mexicans? :shifty:
I'll wager that there's not a peep from the SJ crowd when in a Mexican movie a Mexican plays a gringo..;)

GulfportDoc

04-26-24, 08:46 PM

The Maltese Falcon (1941)

The Maltese Falcon is one of the great films and also one of the very first noirs. There were a couple of noir films in 1940 --The Letter, and They Drive by Night, but Falcon seems to be the picture that splashed Hollywood into the start of the noir movement.

This seems to me a transition film for Bogart from tough guy roles to more varied portrayals, of which he knocked out of the park in Casablanca, and later in The Big Sleep. Bogart’s Sam Spade seemed to forever serve as the template for the no nonsense, slightly amoral, looking-out-for-himself shamus that would be used by writers in so many films afterward.

Sydney Greenstreet's film debut was brilliant. At aged 61 he had been a highly accomplished stage actor, which shows. Peter Lorre was getting on a roll then, and played the perfect weasel. Mary Astor was gutsy taking the role of Brigid O'Shaughnessy: a scheming, immoral woman. Astor had a ton of experience since her beginnings in silent films, and she pulled out all the stops here. And one of my favorites, Elisha Cook, Jr., shone as Greenstreet's hapless gun totin' henchman

In John Huston's premiere feature film, he followed the book closely, and finished shooting under budget. It was one of the best received films of 1941, and remains today as one of our great classics.

I have it at #8 on my noir list.

beelzebubble

04-26-24, 08:50 PM

But anyway, all those instances of white people playing other races go beyond just having a "color-less" Hollywood, something I'm pretty sure wasn't in the minds of the casting agents of yesteryear.

First, there's the implication that either there wasn't a Latino/Native American actor capable enough to play a Latino/Native American character, or that you're not willing to give the opportunity to one thus continuing that cycle of limiting the possibilities of minority actors to get quality roles other than "gang member #1", "token Native guy", or "thug #2".

But I won't deny the fact that, as a Latino myself, I find the film's execution problematic, to say the least.

I am sure the filmmakers in Hollywood knew of many talented Latin actors. Cesar Romero, Fernando Lamas and Ricardo Montalban quickly come to mind. I mean California was once a part of Mexico. It has a large Hispanic and Asian population. Who knows what the thinking was behind the casting. Maybe Welles decided to change the main characters ethnicity on the sly. Hire a popular white actor. Get the money for the film. Then change his ethnicity by dying his hair and putting darker makeup on him. I mean that totally sounds like something he would do.

I imagine most casting choices are based on money. Who is going to draw the crowds. Not that there wasn't plenty of racism apparent in those choices.
Now here is an interesting thought. I am going to bring in misogyny to heighten the racism. Maybe he changed Heston's ethnicity to lower the valence on the rape of the wife. For a white audience of the time, her rape will not be seen as so traumatic since she has slept with a Mexican before the rape. Many people would have seen it that way. then. It takes some of the onus of what happens to her and places it on the husband. He is being harmed by his own kind and the audience no longer has as much outrage when the flower of white womanhood is offended. She is already seen as less than. The mores of the time were so different. it amazes me that young people think nothing has changed.

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 08:58 PM

Nice clip from a very good Ed Wood movie. I've sat in that booth shown (and at the bar) in the clip many times. I used to live 2 blocks up the street from Musso and Franks. I was friends with the head waiter, and he used to comp us. It's one of the few iconic places left in L.A.That is cool! I didn't even know it was a real place, I thought it was probably a studio set. Do you remember what it was called? Was it a bar only or a restaurant & bar?

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 09:00 PM

GulfportDoc

04-26-24, 09:03 PM

Was it Apache (1954) with Burt Lancaster and Jean Peters as Apaches? If so yeah it was very distracting, But...good movie and the story line was respectful of Apaches and Native Americans. Jeffrey Hunter played and American Indian in a couple westerns and he was even harder to believe.
Yes, it was Apache. I absolutely loved this film as a kid when it came out. B. Lancaster was absolutely believable as Massai, the warrior who wouldn't give up. His love story with Nalinle (Jean Peters) really wowed me as a kid. The scene where he finally stops trying to get rid of her as she won't stop following him, and he grabs ahold of her lovingly really got my heart going.

I watched again a month or two ago, and of course after all these years it didn't have the same impact. But it was a strong picture when it came out. And Charles Bronson was still being billed as Charles Buchinsky...:D

dadgumblah

04-26-24, 09:06 PM

Well, that tops me off with The Maltese Falcon placing in the same slot as I had it, #3. I love this movie greatly, it being one of my all-time favorites. The entire cast is perfect and John Huston did a fabulous job in his directing debut. I find new things to love everytime I see it. The dialogue just pops:

"When you're slapped, you'll take it and like it."

"The chances are you'll get off with life. That means if you're a good girl, you'll be out in 20 years. I'll be waiting for you. If they hang you, I'll always remember you."

" I'll have some rotten nights after I've sent you over, but that'll pass."

"By gad, sir, you are a character. There's never any telling what you'll say or do next, except that it's bound to be something astonishing."

"People lose teeth talking like that. If you want to hang around, you'll be polite."

All but one of those lines are from Spade, the other from Kasper Gutman, but it all sizzles. Since this is a Noir countdown, I had two films ahead of The Maltese Falcon on my list, but I love Falcon more than those, as I will always put it in my all-time film favorites list ahead of the top two I listed, if that makes sense. I'd forgotten that Huston had directed The Asphalt Jungle when I chose it for the ballot, so that makes two of his I have in the Top Three.

#1 The Killing List Proper #11
#2 The Asphalt Jungle List Proper #16
#3 The Maltese Falcon List Proper #3
#4 The Big Combo List Proper #52
#5 Pickup on South Street List Proper #23
#6 Kansas City Confidential List Proper #53
#7 The Big Sleep List Proper #8
#8 While the City Sleeps NM
#9 Lady in the Lake NM
#10 The Big Heat List Proper #17
#11 Kiss Me Deadly List Proper #13
#12 The Postman Always Rings Twice List Proper #23
#13 Murder, My Sweet List Proper #28
#14 Kiss of Death List Proper #59
#15 He Walked By Night List Proper #88
#16 The Naked City List Proper #60
#17 The Killers List Proper #22
#18 Detour List Proper #24
#19 The Glass Key NM
#20 Gun Crazy List Proper #36
#21 Impact NM
#22 This Gun For Hire List Proper #78
#23 The Narrow Margin List Proper #43
#24 Pitfall NM
#25 Crossfire List Proper #51

GulfportDoc

04-26-24, 09:07 PM

That is cool! I didn't even know it was a real place, I thought it was probably a studio set. Do you remember what it was called? Was it a bar only or a restaurant & bar?
It's called Musso & Frank Grille. It's been a fine restaurant/bar on Hollywood Blvd. since 1919. Here's the website. The waiter pictured is my old friend Sergio.
https://mussoandfrank.com/

Thief

04-26-24, 09:13 PM

But I do have a related question for you and anyone who voted for Touch of Evil or any noir that they felt offended by or objected too...Why vote for it? If I strongly objected to a film I would never vote for it.

I would refer you to my previously linked review (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2243555-touch_of_evil.html), but the bottom line is that I can look past those problematic issues and still recognize the craft and skill involved in the film.

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 09:20 PM

I would refer you to my previously linked review (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2243555-touch_of_evil.html), but the bottom line is that I can look past those problematic issues and still recognize the craft and skill involved in the film.That's cool I don't have a problem with that, just a question I was wondering every since the reveal of Touch of Evil. I do have another question for you (or anyone), how come Marlene Dietrich isn't called out in the same way for brown face? She's clearly in brown face as well as Heston. Neither bother me because a Mexican is a nationality not a race.

Thief

04-26-24, 09:38 PM

That's cool I don't have a problem with that, just a question I was wondering every since the reveal of Touch of Evil. I do have another question for you (or anyone), how come Marlene Dietrich isn't called out in the same way for brown face? She's clearly in brown face as well as Heston. Neither bother me because a Mexican is a nationality not a race.

Personally, I have issues with both. I don't think I've referenced Heston specifically, but I suppose that him being the lead vs. Dietrich being a very supporting role, he's bound to be in the forefront.

As for your final sentence, it does bring up another layer of stereotype that goes with these issues because whoever made the call to put Heston and Dietrich in brownface reasoned "They're Latinos, they must have brown skin", which is a very narrow-minded and stereotypical view of nationalities and ethnicities (not all Mexicans are brown/dark skinned). A similar, and maybe better example would be Rita Moreno in West Side Story; a Puerto Rican playing a Puerto Rican, and still, someone decided to put her in brownface because, of course, Latinos are all "brown skinned". So nationality/ethnicity does get mixed up with race very often.

As an addendum, I think Moreno and George Chakiris (a Greek playing a brown-skinned Puerto Rican) are easily the best performances in that film, and I can appreciate that and still see how those decisions around their roles are problematic.

Citizen Rules

04-26-24, 10:09 PM

It's called Musso & Frank Grille. It's been a fine restaurant/bar on Hollywood Blvd. since 1919. Here's the website. The waiter pictured is my old friend Sergio.
https://mussoandfrank.com/Good to here it's still standing. I looked up some images of it and found a noir sweetheart actually two of them:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ILNCzMLFzXg/UjKozig5utI/AAAAAAAAESk/cmg1QVV9L_8/s640/musso+and+frank+sinatra.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/ee/86/5bee8642c3f39f505687530f9ad9fcc2.jpg

SpelingError

04-26-24, 11:55 PM

Here are the films I voted for which won't make the list:

17. The Big Heat
20. The Fallen Idol
22. The Lost Weekend

So, not much.

stillmellow

04-27-24, 12:42 AM

Here are the films I voted for which won't make the list:

17. The Big Heat
20. The Fallen Idol
22. The Long Weekend

So, not much.

Big Heat and Long Weekend are both on the list.

stillmellow

04-27-24, 12:44 AM

My full list:

1. Laura (1944)
2. The Third Man (1949)
3. In a Lonely Place (1950)
4. Sunset Boulevard (1950)
5. The Lost Weekend (1945)
6. Murder My Sweet (1944)
7. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
8. The Maltese Falcon (1941)
9. Shadow of a Doubt (1943)
10. White Heat (1949)
11. Rebecca (1940)
12. Touch of Evil (1958)
13. Double Indemnity (1944)
14. The Big Sleep (1946)
15. Detour (1945)
16. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
17. Strangers on a Train (1951)
18. Ace in the Hole (1951)
19. Leave Her to Heaven (1945)
20. Nightmare Alley (1947)
21. Key Largo (1948)
22. The Killing (1956)
23. Suspicion (1941)
24. Big Combo (1955)
25. DOA (1950)

Everything made it into the top 100. No deep cuts in my list.

dadgumblah

04-27-24, 12:57 AM

Holden Pike, I liked The Racket quite a bit. I loved Robert Ryan as the bad guy in this one. Especially when he walks into a police station by himself and kills a cop! And the movie of course has Lizabeth Scott, which is always a plus! But I don't have to tell you that, do I, Holden? :)

Speaking of White actors playing Native Americans in the old days, how about Jeff Chandler playing Chochise in Broken Arrow (1950), the James Stewart Western. He repeated his role two years in The Battle at Apache Pass both times co-starring with actual Native American Jay Silverheels of The Lone Ranger TV fame. Chandler did a good job in Broken Arrow (the only one of the two films I've seen), looking very rugged, and already having a somewhat dark skin tone of his own, so I don't know if they even added makeup to make him look more like an Apache. But his clear eyes gave him away as a White Man. In Broken Arrow Debra Paget (sigh) played an Apache woman, and they really slathered on the dark makeup and added contact lenses to turn her blue eyes brown. To be fair, Debra Paget was already beautiful but even with the makeup, she was beyond beautiful.

EDIT: By the way, Citizen Rules, those are some great pics you posted. I especially love the one of Joe DiMaggio holding onto Marilyn's hand.

But I've gotten way off-topic, so go Top-Two! Noir, Noir, Noir!

SpelingError

04-27-24, 12:57 AM

Big Heat and Long Weekend are both on the list.
That means The Fallen Idol is the only film I voted for which won't be making the list then. I imagine this countdown will be a great source for recommendations.

PHOENIX74

04-27-24, 01:55 AM

#4 The Third Man (1946) - I forgot it! I forgot, I forgot - damn it. The Third Man would have been at the upper end of my ballot, but I forgot all about it, and as such is the only film that I have to mention as a rectification. It's one of the all-time greats of course, and a rewatch recently confirmed that it's one I truly love a great deal. Thank goodness the points difference means my extra ones would have made no difference as to it's placing, and hey - this just means one other great film got the chance to earn a few points that probably did make a difference. Still - I was really mad with myself when I realised the error. What a huge film noir classic to completely slip my mind (it was the only one that did.) A while ago on Facebook I said "Every single aspect of filmmaking is operating here at it's utmost perfection and in complete unison with every other aspect. Music, cinematography, story, acting, sound and setting. From set-piece to set-piece, this is an endlessly enjoyable film." Wonderful movie from Carol Reed - and I also quite enjoy Joseph Cotten in general. Welles is great and his shadow looms over the film despite his limited screen time.

#3 The Maltese Falcon (1941) - This one I didn't forget - it would be nearly impossible to do so. Reviewing it recently I said "This is the big one. The essence, as far as I can tell. How we were finally able to define "cool" in the 20th Century. This is the movie that really does get better each time you see it - one with a sensational array of uncommon characters twisted into it's mysterious story. The one that introduces us to Private Detective Sam Spade (Humphrey Bogart) - the ultimate for his keen eye, quick mind, sharp tongue and indomitable spirit. Much like Marlon Brando did with Vito Corleone, Bogart became an insoluble part of popular culture and cinematic mythology by embodying this character. Spade is instantly recognizable to someone who has never even seen the film before, because he became the very definition of the iconic gumshoe - and in portraying him, Bogart doesn't even seem to be acting. He's only too happy to be Spade, and I imagine it felt glorious to play the role." I summed up by simply saying, "The Maltese Falcon has it all, and this is my first love letter directed at it. A truly great film - historically great. The stuff that dreams are made of." That probably says enough. I had it at #5 on my ballot.

In the interim, I watched Leave Her to Heaven, adding to my 'seen' count.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 37/98
I'd never even heard of : 47/98
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 15/98
Films from my list : 23

#3 - My #5 - The Maltese Falcon (1941)
#5 - My #8 - Touch of Evil
#6 - My #3 - In a Lonely Place (1950)
#7 - My #7 - Out of the Past (1947)
#8 - My #6 - The Big Sleep (1946)
#9 - My #9 - Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
#10 - My #24 - Laura (1944)
#11 - My #13 - The Killing (1956)
#13 - My #4 - Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
#14 - My #10 - The Night of the Hunter (1955)
#16 - My #15 - The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
#21 - My #17 - Pickup on South Street (1953)
#24 - My #20 - Detour (1945)
#27 - My #14 - Gilda (1946)
#28 - My #11 - Murder, My Sweet (1944)
#31 - My #25 - The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
#33 - My #22 - Nightmare Alley (1947)
#36 - My #16 - Gun Crazy (1950)
#44 - My #19 - Criss Cross (1949)
#54 - My #12 - D.O.A. (1950)
#58 - My #23 - The Breaking Point (1950)
#61 - My #21 - Act of Violence (1949)
#67 - My #18 - The Hitch-Hiker (1953)

Citizen Rules

04-27-24, 01:26 PM

Here comes the last two reveals in the:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=97804

Citizen Rules

04-27-24, 01:29 PM

98773
#2 Sunset Blvd. (1950)

Director: Billy Wilder
Production: Paramount Pictures
Cast: William Holden, Gloria Swanson, Erich von Stroheim
816 Points, 42 Lists

'A screenwriter develops a dangerous relationship with a faded film star determined to make a triumphant return.'

_______________________________________

Citizen Rules

04-27-24, 01:29 PM

98774
#1 Double Indemnity (1944)

Director: Billy Wilder
Production: Paramount Pictures
Cast: Fred MacMurray, Barbara Stanwyck, Edward G. Robinson
925 Points, 48 Lists

'A Los Angeles insurance representative lets an alluring housewife seduce him into a scheme of insurance fraud and murder that arouses the suspicion of his colleague, an insurance investigator.

_______________________________________

Citizen Rules

04-27-24, 01:33 PM

Just the way it should end with two from the great Billy Wilder. Both of those films are very deserving of 2nd and 1st place in our Film Noir countdown.

Hope everyone had fun! I did! Thank you so much for participating and making this countdown a reality. I'm humbled by everyone's help and participation. Thanks MoFo!

seanc

04-27-24, 01:48 PM

Nice! I think Double Indemnity is not only the definitive Noir, but it’s also a ton of damn fun, which this genre should be. I love Noir because of its dark elements but also because they are entertaining with interesting characters. The great ones have that crackling tounge in cheek dialogue. Double Indemnity fits the bill. Mofo #1 and my #1.

Thanks Citizen. If I had a Noir question or just wanted a rec their are two mofos I would go to, and you are one with a bullet. No one better to lead the countdown.

Harry Lime

04-27-24, 01:48 PM

Wow I thought Sunset Boulevard had #1 locked. Oh well always up for a surprise. Both of these films are perfect, essential, classic noirs, and both come from a single filmmaker. That's something special. I had Sunset Boulevard at #2, and Double Indemnity at #6.

Here is my full list. Everything made the cut.

1. The Third Man (1949)
2. Sunset Boulevard (1950)
3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
4. Touch of Evil (1958)
5. The Maltese Falcon (1941)
6. Double Indemnity (1944)
7. Notorious (1946)
8. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
9. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
10. Stray Dog (1949)
11. Mildred Pierce (1945)
12. In a Lonely Place (1950)
13. Detour (1945)
14. The Big Sleep (1946)
15. Bob The Gambler (1956)
16. The Killers (1946)
17. Rififi (1955)
18. The Killing (1956)
19. Strangers on a Train (1951)
20. Gilda (1946)
21. Pickup on South Street (1953)
22. Laura (1944)
23. White Heat (1949)
24. Out of the Past (1947)
25. Nightmare Alley (1947)

Harry Lime

04-27-24, 01:51 PM

Amazing job on running the countdown, Citizen. 5 Stars for you! Thank you for your efforts. Thanks to those of you that provided stats and to everyone that sent in lists and joined in on the conversation. These two countdowns were a lot of fun. I also have a long list of movies to add to my watchlist from each.

Allaby

04-27-24, 01:54 PM

Two of my favourite film noirs! Great way to end the countdown. Double Indemnity was my number four and Sunset Boulevard was my number six. Super job Citizen Rules doing this countdown. Great list!

Seen:99/100

My ballot:

1. Strangers on a Train (1951)
2. The Maltese Falcon (1941)
3. The Big Sleep (1946)
4. Double Indemnity (1944)
5. Laura (1944)
6. Sunset Boulevard (1950)
7. Night and the City (1950)
8. Born to Kill (1947)
9. They Live by Night (1948)
10. The Killing (1956)
11. The Lost Weekend (1945)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
13. Notorious (1946)
14. Ace in the Hole (1951)
15. Shadow of a Doubt (1943)
16. Nightmare Alley (1947)
17. Detour (1945)
18. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
19. To Have and Have Not (1944)
20. Mildred Pierce (1945)
21. White Heat (1949)
22. The Big Heat (1953)
23. No Way Out (1950)
24. Suddenly (1954)
25. The Killers (1946)

LAMb EELYAK

04-27-24, 01:56 PM

1. Touch of Evil (1958) #5
2. The Desperate Hours (1955) #71
3. The Lost Weekend (1945) #34
4. Mildred Pierce (1945) #15
5. Sunset Blvd. (1950) #2
6. The Stranger (1946) #35
7. The Third Man (1946) #4
8. Double Indemnity (1944) #1
9. The Letter (1940) #72
10. Shadow of a Doubt (1943) #12
11. Nightmare Alley (1947) #33
12. Laura (1944) #10
13. The Killing (1956) #11
14. Suspicion (1941) #49
15. Spellbound (1945) #68
16. Notorious (1946) #20
17. Rebecca (1940) #35
18. The Big Sleep (1946) #8
19. Key Largo (1948) #26
20. Niagara (1953) #56
21. To Have and Have Not (1944) #64
22. Gilda (1946) #27
23. All the King's Men (1949) #83
24. The Maltese Falcon (1941) #3
25. Crossfire (1947) #51

Hey Fredrick

04-27-24, 02:04 PM

Outstanding Job Citizen!

Those are my top 2 with Sunset Blvd. being my number 1 and Double Indemnity my number 2. While I enjoy Sunset more (Gloria Swanson's performance is mesmerizing), Indemnity is THE noir film of all noir films. That's the movie I immediately think off when somebody mentions noir.

I also had The Maltese Falcon, Touch of Evil and The Third Man at 10,11, and 12 on my ballot. I mentioned early on in the countdown that I only watch good noir. 24 out of 25 in my list showed up proving me quite right. Had I known Rififi was eligible it would have been right at number five. Gaslight is the only film I feel like I missed on. I just forgot about it.

I have only seen 33/100. Oof!

Sunset Blvd #2
Double Indemnity # 1
The Killing #11
Strangers on a Train #18
The Killers #22
Out of the Past #7
Nightmare Alley #33
Brute Force #73
The Big Sleep #8
The Maltese Falcon #3
Touch of Evil #5
The Third Man #4
Ace in the Hole #19
The Postman Always Rings Twice #23
Sweet Smell of Success #9
T-Men DNP
In a Lonely Place #6
Crossfire #51
Detour #24
The Night of the Hunter #14
The Woman in the Window #65
The Lady From Shanghai #31
Notorious #20
Pickup on South Street #21
Key Largo #26

John W Constantine

04-27-24, 02:08 PM

Double Indemnity was my no. 5 but I feel like that speaks most to the quality of the competition here on this list. Very deserving of the top spot.

Near Misses:

#23 The Scar (Hollow Triumph)

Wyldesyde19

04-27-24, 02:30 PM

A fitting countdown. Great job, CR!
So many I have yet to see. Time to start hunting them down.

Holden Pike

04-27-24, 02:45 PM

98776

Sunset Blvd. was #3 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1950s and #53 on the MoFo Top 100 Refresh in 2020. Double Indemnity was #6 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1940s and #96 on the original MoFo Top 100 in 2010.

CosmicRunaway

04-27-24, 02:56 PM

Great job hosting Citizen! Those custom banners for every film were a great touch, and no doubt a lot of work as well, so thank you for putting in the time and effort! Holden, Thief, and everyone else who added facts to the Countdown deserve some recognition as well, so thank you all! <3

I actually haven't seen Sunset Boulevard, but I probably should since it's apparently very well regarded.

There's only one film that hadn't already been revealed on my list, and that was Double Indemnity, which I had at #2. When it was nominated in the 2nd 40s HoF, I wrote this:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=31007

Double Indemnity (1944)
Dir. Billy Wilder
Starring: Fred MacMurray, Barbara Stanwyck, Edward G. Robinson

The film noir visual style, with its roots in German expressionism, is incredibly appealing to me. So being the film other noirs aspired to be like, Double Indemnity certainly delivers in the cinematography department. The dark corners and strong shadows on screen are a constant dramatic presence, with the main characters frequently concealed in darkness, or framed in a prison-like light effect created by window blinds. The stark contrast between the bright exterior shots, and the carefully crafted dusty sound stage interiors complement the characters' sinister undertones beautifully. It has a rather cynical feel to it, which I thoroughly enjoy.

The film is very cleverly written as well, with a lot of great wordplay in the script, particularly between Walter and Phyllis in their earlier scenes. While I didn't think MacMurray and Stanwyck's chemistry was a strong as that between MacMurray and Robinson, it was still very plausible, and I never questioned the allure they felt for each other. I never liked Stanwyck's hair in the film, but I recently learned that it was actually a wig, and that Wilder always intended for it to look fake and slightly sleazy. Knowing that this time around, I thought it worked really well, and did a great job reflecting what kind of person Phyllis really was.

The occasionally discordant score accompanying many scenes really enhanced the film's atmosphere, though most of the time it actually went unnoticed by me, since I was too engrossed by everything else. I've been wanting to rewatch this film for a long time, but didn't nominate it because I was sure someone else would have already beaten me to the punch, and I'm glad I was right about that.

I'm just now realizing that I forgot to post yesterday, so technically there were 2 films on my list I hadn't yet confirmed since I had The Maltese Falcon at #21. With House of Bamboo and The Hidden Room/Obsession being on the near miss lists, I actually came quite close to having all 25 films on my list make the Countdown. It's a very pleasant surprise.

Seen: 45/100

My List: 23
01. Laura (1944) - #10
02. Double Indemnity (1944) - #1
03. Stranger on the Third Floor (1940) - #92
04. Murder My Sweet (1944) - #28
05. Shadow of a Doubt (1943) - #12
06. Detour (1945) - #24
07. Rebecca (1940) - #35
08. Ministry of Fear (1944) - #75
09. The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (1946) - #40
10. House of Bamboo (1945) - DNP
11. This Gun for Hire (1942) - #78
12. Mildred Pierce (1945) - #15
13. Odd Man Out (1947) - #47
14. The Big Sleep (1946) - #8
15. Strangers on a Train (1951) - #18
16. The Third Man (1949) - #4
17. The Asphalt Jungle (1950) - #16
18. Night and the City (1950) - #25
19. Phantom Lady (1944) - #69
20. The Hidden Room/Obsession (1949) - DNP
21. The Maltese Falcon (1941) - #3
22. The Killing (1956) - #11
23. Touch of Evil (1958) - #5
24. Kiss Me Deadly (1955) - #14
25. The Stranger (1946) - #38

https://64.media.tumblr.com/9895777a4a64b43120b2173a0f896214/0e24ef4531ede907-58/s500x750/58136ef520442e06334b5e8653aca6fb3d192d3f.gifv

Miss Vicky

04-27-24, 03:10 PM

I liked Sunset Blvd and would have voted for it.

SpelingError

04-27-24, 03:10 PM

Sunset Boulevard was #10 on my ballot and Double Indemnity was #1. Happy that it got first place on this countdown!

SpelingError

04-27-24, 03:10 PM

1. Double Indemnity
2. Out of the Past
3. Touch of Evil
4. In a Lonely Place
5. Night and the City
6. The Killing
7. The Night of the Hunter
8. White Heat
9. Detour
10. Sunset Boulevard
11. The Maltese Falcon
12. Shadow of a Doubt
13. Ace in the Hole
14. Gun Crazy
15. The Third Man
16. The Postman Always Rings Twice
17. The Big Heat
18. The Stranger
19. Odd Man Out
20. The Fallen Idol
21. Mildred Pierce
22. The Long Weekend
23. Sweet Smell of Success
24. Crossfire
25. The Big Sleep

SpelingError

04-27-24, 03:10 PM

Excellent job hosting, Citizen Rules!

honeykid

04-27-24, 03:35 PM

One thing worth noting, I'm not sure how much power the Hays Code still had by 1958 for Touch of Evil (people noted it had lost power with Some Like it Hot in 59 and Psycho and 60), but one aspect of it that people often aren't aware of is, it explicitly forbade interracial couples (there was a weird loophole, where the characters could be, but the actors could not). This has some long term, morally ugly consequences. However, as evidenced by the practice of having white stars play people of color into the 21st century, that isn't necessarily the only reason such a casting decision might have been made and I'm less certain if that rule extended to Hispanics as it did to African Americans (presumably, yes?). However I'm guessing it's likely the Production Code would have prevented a Mexican from playing a Mexican married to a white, American woman.
Thanks for that, I was unaware of that rule. :)

Was it Apache (1954) with Burt Lancaster and Jean Peters as Apaches? If so yeah it was very distracting, But...good movie and the story line was respectful of Apaches and Native Americans. Jeffrey Hunter played and American Indian in a couple westerns and he was even harder to believe.

Talking of harder to believe, he played Jesus too. :D

Here's something you don't see every countdown, my top 2 are the same as the Mofo top 2. I guess that's more likely to happen when it's a countdown of a genre I'm not really into, but quality is quality and these two are the best films on the list IMO. As someone who doens't care for it, I wouldn't even say I know if they are the best representation? But I'm very pleased to see that they're the top 2 and that I had 7 of the top 10. So, I guess, it could be said that if you actually make a good film, I don't care if it's noir or not? :D

All my choices showed up, which has never happened before but, again, from a pool so small and in incomplete list, if it was going to happen, this would be the list to do it.

Thanks to CR for running a fine countdown and keeping the ball rolling even for someone who wasn't as invested in it as many were. Good job. :up:

As I said, all mine appeared, but here's the list in case you'd like to see it.

1. Double Indemnity (1944)
2. Sunset Boulevard (1950)
3. The Third Man (1949)
4. Mildred Pierce (1945)
5. Niagara (1953)
6. Shadow Of A Doubt (1943)
7. Laura (1944)
8. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
9. The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
10. Leave her to heaven (1945)
11. Brighton Rock (1948)
12. Touch Of Evil (1958)
13. D.O.A. (1949)
14. The Maltese Falcon (1941)
15. Gun Crazy (1950)
16. Key Largo
17. Kiss Of Death

Thursday Next

04-27-24, 04:32 PM

My list:

1. Sweet Smell of Success 1957
2. Drunken Angel 1948
3. All the Kings Men 1949
4. The Third Man 1949
5. Rebecca 1940
6. Laura 1944
7. Brighton Rock 1948
8. Night and the City 1950
9. Nightmare Alley 1947
10. The Postman Always Rings Twice 1946
11. Scarlet Street 1945
12. Ossessione 1943
13. The Hitch Hiker 1953
14. They Live by Night 1948
15. Elevator to the Gallows 1958
16. Hell Drivers 1957
17. Cast a Dark Shadow 1955
18. The Strange love of Martha Ivers 1946
19. Stray Dog 1949
20. Night of the Hunter 1955
21. Pickup on South Street 1953
22.The Big Combo 1955
23. Angel Face 1952
24. Mildred Pierce 1945
25. Anna Lucasta 1958

Good job hosting, CR, it's been fun and I have definitely expanded my knowledge of noir.

WHITBISSELL!

04-27-24, 04:35 PM

2 for 2 on this final day to finish up the countdown with 66 films out of the 100 watched.

Thank you Citizen Rules for all your hard work. Both yours and Thief's countdowns ended up looking very professional and I'm just happy to have hitched a ride. Thanks to everyone for all the great suggestions, trivia and insights. It's been a blast! Now to put together a list of all the noirs I want to watch.

https://shadowsandsatin.files.wordpress.com/2023/11/23a.gif?w=480

cricket

04-27-24, 04:38 PM

I don't know if it's crazier that I didn't care for Double Indemnity the 1st time I watched it, or that it took me about 4 tries to love Sunset Blvd. At least I got there.

1. Double Indemnity (#1)
2. Scarlet Street (#29)
3. Rififi (#42)
4. Mildred Pierce (#15)
5. The Third Man (#4)
6. The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (#40)
7. Body and Soul (#94)
8. Touch of Evil (#5)
9. Sunset Blvd (#2)
10. Key Largo (#26)
11. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (#13)
13. Detective Story (#57)
14. The Killers (#22)
15. Force of Evil (#85)
16 Ride the Pink Horse (#45)
17. The Maltese Falcon (#3)
18. The Big Sleep (#8)
19. Nightmare Alley (#33)
20. The Blue Dahlia (#74)
21. The Lady from Shanghai (#31)
22. Gilda (#27)
23. The Stranger (#38)
24. Drunken Angel (#70)
25. The Letter (#72)

I'll have to figure out for sure when it's time to fill out my list, but I've seen about 80-85/100

Thank you very much for your work CR, you ended up doing an ok job I guess.

Kaplan

04-27-24, 04:44 PM

Both of those were on my list, and in fact I didn't have anything that missed out. Here's my final list:

1. The Maltese Falcon
2. The Third Man
3.Sunset Boulevard
4.Double Indemnity
5.Out of the Past
6. Pickup on South Street
7. Stray Dog
8. The Killing
9. Laura
10. Shadow of a Doubt
11. Where the Sidewalk Ends
12. In a Lonely Place
13. The Big Heat
14. Sweet Smell of Success
15. Elevator to the Gallows
16. The Big Sleep
17. Ace in the Hole
18. Gilda
19. Mildred Pierce
20. This Gun for Hire
21. The Postman Always Rings Twice
22. The Wrong Man
23. The Set-Up
24. Scarlet Street
25. Gun Crazy

Holden Pike

04-27-24, 05:58 PM

98804

Little Ash

04-27-24, 06:19 PM

I think the only eligible movie in my top 10 that didn't make the countdown was Kobayashi's 1957 noir, Black River.

https://vhx.imgix.net/criterionchannelchartersu/assets/df8d22cb-429d-4636-bfa1-cb0372029a13.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=crop&h=720&q=75&w=1280 (https://www.criterionchannel.com/black-river)

1. In a Lonely Place 1950
2. Sunset Boulevard 1950
3. (Not Eligible) M 1931
4. Ace in the Hole 1951
5. Black River 1957
6. The Third Man 1949
7. Touch of Evil 1958
8. Double Indemnity 1944
9. Rififi 1955
10. Elevator to the Gallows 1958
11. The Night of the Hunter 1955
12. Sweet Smell of Success 1957
13. Out of the Past 1947
14. The Killing 1956
15. The Postman Always Rings Twice 1946
16. The Lost Weekend 1945
17. Repeat Performance 1947
18. Nightmare Alley 1947
19. The Stranger 1946
20. The Naked City 1948
21. The Hitch-Hiker 1953
22. Gaslight 1944
23. Niagara 1953
24. I Am Waiting 1957
25. Detour 1945

mrblond

04-27-24, 06:41 PM

98810

#1. Double Indemnity (1944) was my #3.
#2. Sunset Blvd. (1950) was my #1.

Two movies that are part of my cinema hall of fame as a whole, outside whatever genre-based or decade-based lists.
Gloria Swanson as Norma Desmond is grandiose and when it comes to Erich von Stroheim, I'm always caught.
As for Fred MacMurray, :yup: he's the guy!
98809

WHITBISSELL!

04-27-24, 07:18 PM

And as I just mentioned in the neo-noir thread thank you to Yoda for all his behind the scenes work in making these two countdowns such polished and top drawer affairs. 😊 👍

GulfportDoc

04-27-24, 08:00 PM

That is cool! I didn't even know it was a real place, I thought it was probably a studio set. Do you remember what it was called? Was it a bar only or a restaurant & bar?
CR, look at the website: https://mussoandfrank.com/

It's been right at the same address on the north side of Hollywood Blvd at Cherokee Ave. since 1919. It's a fairly large establishment, divided in two by a wall most of the depth of the restaurant. On the right side of the wall is an open bar, with tables and booths beyond. On the other side is a diner counter with an open grill. Beyond are mostly booths.

Many movies have been shot there-- even more so today, since there are so few historically iconic L.A. places left.

GulfportDoc

04-27-24, 08:05 PM

Good to here it's still standing. I looked up some images of it and found a noir sweetheart actually two of them:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ILNCzMLFzXg/UjKozig5utI/AAAAAAAAESk/cmg1QVV9L_8/s640/musso+and+frank+sinatra.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/ee/86/5bee8642c3f39f505687530f9ad9fcc2.jpg
Nice pictures of Sinatra & Bacall (?), and Marilyn and DiMaggio. The top picture doesn't look like it's in Musso & Franks, although it could be. The bottom picture looks like the booths at Musso's.

GulfportDoc

04-27-24, 08:15 PM

That means The Fallen Idol is the only film I voted for which won't be making the list then. I imagine this countdown will be a great source for recommendations.
IMO that's a good choice, although it wouldn't make my top 25. It's my third favorite Carol Reed picture, behind The Third Man, and Odd Man Out. The photography is phenomenal as per a Reed film. The kid got a little annoying after awhile, but it was a great story.

GulfportDoc

04-27-24, 08:34 PM

Double Indemnity and Sunset Boulevard were my #1 and #2 films respectively. For some reason I've never written a review for Sunset Boulevard, although one could make an argument that it's the greatest classic noir. But here's some commentary re DI:

Double Indemnity (1944)

Double Indemnity (DI) is the big kahuna of films noir. It was not the first noir, but it was the one which influenced all that followed in terms of story, dialogue, photography, set design, narration, and hard as nails stereophonic characters. Director Billy Wilder stepped into what would become a famous style purely from the desire for artistic exposition, and to make a good film. His famous quote: “I never heard that expression film noir when I made Double Indemnity ... I just made pictures I would have liked to see. When I was lucky, it coincided with the taste of the audience. With Double Indemnity, I was lucky.”

But it turns out that we film lovers were far luckier than was Wilder. Thanks to his talents we’ve been treated to a fascinating film style that has endured over the decades all the way to modern times. All those juicy and mesmerizing films to follow in DI’s style would not have been possible without Wilder & crew’s work in this film.

Most fans know the story: an insurance salesman mentored by a tough wily claims examiner falls for an enticing woman who later enlists him for a murder plot of her husband in order to collect the life insurance benefit from the company who employs both the salesman and the mentor. Many recall the story as one of a scheming femme fatale who uses her lover’s emotions against him in order to bring off the crime. And that’s true in part. But the real story is how the salesman tries to outwit his long time mentor, and to pull off the crime while fooling his hero. It’s as much a cat & mouse game as it is a doomed love story.

Much praise has been given the 3 stars: Fred MacMurray, Barbara Stanwyck, and Edward G. Robinson. It’s hard to imagine who could have portrayed their parts with more believabilty and style. MacMurray and Stanwyck had worked together 4 years earlier in Remember the Night, a romantic comedy. And now each was the highest paid actor in Hollywood of their respective sexes. Stanwyck didn’t want the role, and had to be coaxed into it, whereas MacMurray --being a light comedy actor-- didn’t believe he could handle the part. He too had to be convinced. Their pairing for DI turned out to be one of the best in film history. And Robinson also wowed audiences with his portrayal. One of his best known speeches was the “method of suicide” monologue, which is one of the most memorable from the era.

Wilder’s direction was masterful, as he reportedly was trying to out-do Alfred Hitchcock in excellence. But it was the pregnant and rough clipped dialogue --chiefly written by the great Raymond Chandler-- that set the mood up on a pedestal, never to be knocked down. Chandler’s hard boiled word interplay was to be a master class in dialogue for future film writers. Wilder rewarded Chandler with a cameo, visible 16 minutes into the film, as he sat outside the door of the insurance office reading a newspaper. That clip remains as the onlly known video shot of Chandler.

Cinematographer John Seitz brought with him years of experience from a catalogue of fine films to photograph the shadows and set design necessary to this picture. He was to follow it up with other top Wilder films such as The Lost Weekend and Sunset Boulevard. Also at a high level was Miklos Rozsa’s alluring score. He typically set moods by use of leitmotif musical passages representing the main characters, and also for surreptitious meetings between the two principals.

James N. Cain had written the novella on which DI was based, and many of the studios wanted the rights. But when Paramount finally acquired the rights the Hays office objected that the film was too tawdry, and that MacMurray’s character (Walter Neff) hadn’t received a decisive enough demise. Wilder had initially written an ending at great expense that showed Neff being executed in the gas chamber while his mentor looked on. But yet that ending was thought to be too gruesome by the censors. On reconsideration Wilder realized that the way Neff’s end was shown was perfectly proper, given the nature of the two characters’ relationship, so he omitted the gas chamber ending entirely, and we all can be grateful for Wilder’s decision.

DI is one picture on a small list of films which would be difficult to imagine anything added or subtracted. It’s one of those happy convergences that have occurred over the decades that bring just the right people together at just the right time. Double Indemnity is not just one of the great noirs, but one of America’s greatest films.

Citizen Rules

04-27-24, 08:34 PM

CR, look at the website: https://mussoandfrank.com/

It's been right at the same address on the north side of Hollywood Blvd at Cherokee Ave. since 1919. It's a fairly large establishment, divided in two by a wall most of the depth of the restaurant. On the right side of the wall is an open bar, with tables and booths beyond. On the other side is a diner counter with an open grill. Beyond are mostly booths.

Many movies have been shot there-- even more so today, since there are so few historically iconic L.A. places left.Thanks Doc, I had checked out that site later last night. Funny, when you said "2 blocks up the street from Musso and Franks" I thought that was a street corner in LA, like Hollywood and Vine...but then I looked at that site and seen it was indeed the name of the restaurant.

Nice pictures of Sinatra & Bacall (?), and Marilyn and DiMaggio. The top picture doesn't look like it's in Musso & Franks, although it could be. The bottom picture looks like the booths at Musso's.Bacall for sure. The images came up in a search for Musso and Franks celebrities. Though I can't say for sure as I've never been there:D. I did see another image of a young Dennis Hooper that was supposedly in Musso and Franks.

Thief

04-27-24, 08:36 PM

Big, big fan of both films, so both were obvious choices for my ballot.

Sunset Boulevard is an excellent story about past glories and current frustrations, with some great performances. I have a review written on Letterboxd that will transfer here, so I'll just say I had it at #5. Probably my favorite Wilder, with The Apartment close behind.

As most people have said, Double Indemnity is probably the best example of what film noir is. Twisty, well acted, full of snappy dialogue, it's so much fun and captivating. I had it at #7, but I have a feeling that if I had rewatched it more recently, it would've landed higher.

That means that all 25 films from my list made it. To be honest, I wish I could've had more time to watch or rewatch a few, so I could've injected a couple of more obscure ones in there, but hey, it is what it is.

SEEN: 40/100
MY BALLOT: 25/25

1. Out of the Past (#7)
2. The Third Man (#4)
3. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
4. The Maltese Falcon (#3)
5. Sunset Boulevard (#2)
6. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
7. Double Indemnity (#1)
8. The Big Sleep (#8)
9. Ace in the Hole (#19)
10. Gilda (#27)
11. Criss Cross (#44)
12. Notorious (#20)
13. Laura (#10)
14. Detour (#24)
15. Mildred Pierce (#15)
16. In a Lonely Place (#6)
17. The Narrow Margin (#43)
18. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
19. Touch of Evil (#5)
20. [COLOR="SeaGreen"]Gun Crazy (#36)
21. The Hitch-Hiker (#67)
22. The Killing (#11)
23. The Woman in the Window (#65)
24. D.O.A. (#54)
25. Kansas City Confidential (#53)

GulfportDoc

04-27-24, 08:42 PM

Many thanks to Citizen Rules for running this fascinating noir countdown!

You're not only a cinephile, but a noir (and Gloria Grahame :)) lover, and a nice guy to boot!

These things take a lot of work. And although I know it's a labor of love for you, I really appreciate the time and talent it took to run this thing.

Cheers~

~Doc

Citizen Rules

04-27-24, 08:58 PM

Thief

04-27-24, 10:38 PM

SUNSET BOULEVARD
(1950, Wilder)

https://i.imgur.com/9Dp1Hrs.jpg

"There once was a time in this business when I had the eyes of the whole world! But that wasn't good enough for them, oh no! They had to have the ears of the whole world too. So they opened their big mouths and out came talk. Talk! TALK!"

It is well known that the advent of sound films in the late 1920s wasn't well received by everyone. Many silent actors resented the new technology which was dubbed by some as the "Talkie Terror". Actors that couldn't make the transition were relegated to supporting roles, and in the worst cases, slipped into obscurity. One can only imagine the impact it would have in someone's psyche to see your career vanish for something that is arguably an advance, and that you have almost no control of. That is the backdrop of Billy Wilder's 1950 film.

Sunset Boulevard follows Joe Gillis (William Holden), a down-and-out writer in Hollywood who is about to lose his apartment and his car. One day, completely by chance, he runs into the mansion of Norma Desmond (Gloria Swanson), a middle-aged, former silent movie star that now lives in seclusion, reminiscing of her days of glory, under the guard of her servant, Max (Erich von Stroheim). When Joe finds out that Norma is writing a film titled Salomé in an attempt to make a comeback (or "a return", as she prefers to call it), he offers to doctor her script expecting some money in return. Eventually, he moves into Norma's mansion and becomes her lover; a "kept man", as they called it.

Sunset Boulevard is a story about past glories and current frustrations. Be it the down-and-out writer that "had some talent", the faded, middle-aged actress that used to be "the greatest of them all", the old director that used to be named alongside D.W. Griffith and Cecil B. DeMille, or the young female writer they tried to force into being an actress. Now that the glory days of each are long gone, each of them seem to be trying to spill some of that old glory into their lives, like fiction oozing into reality. Whether it is Joe trying to "write" a new story to his "character" by working for Norma, or Norma putting up live shows for Joe - the Norma Desmond Follies - while Max makes every single effort to "direct" and orchestrate Norma's life the way he feels more convenient.

If I were to complain about something, I would say that the relationship between Joe and Betty felt underdeveloped. But other than that, the film was an excellent showcase of great acting as far as everyone's concerned. Ultimately, in the stage of life, they all got what they wanted. Joe got a "nice" story with a twist ending, even if it was at his own expense; Max had the chance to direct the cameras one last time for Norma; and she, well she had the chance to have the eyes of the whole world on her for one last time en route for her "close-up".

Grade: 4.5

Thief

04-27-24, 11:00 PM

Stats: Finish Line
https://www.cocosse.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Double2BIndemnity-2.gif

-

Now that we hit the finish line, here's were we ended up after 100 entries:

Yearly Breakdown

1940 = 4
1941 = 2
1942 = 1
1943 = 2
1944 = 8
1945 = 7
1946 = 11
1947 = 11
1948 = 10
1949 = 7
1950 = 11
1951 = 4
1952 = 3
1953 = 5
1954 = 0
1955 = 6
1956 = 4
1957 = 1
1958 = 3
1959 = 0

1946 and 1950 made a last push to tie with 1947 for the top spot, with 1948 close behind. Strong showing also from 1944, while 1959 and 1954 remained blank.

Repeating Directors

Alfred Hitchcock = 7
Billy Wilder = 4
Orson Welles = 4
Otto Preminger = 4
Fritz Lang = 4
Jules Dassin = 4
John Huston = 3
Robert Siodmak = 3
Robert Wise = 3
Henry Hathaway = 3
Nicholas Ray = 3
William Wyler = 3
Carol Reed = 2
Howard Hawks = 2
Michael Curtiz = 2
Edward Dmytryk = 2
Raoul Walsh = 2
Akira Kurosawa = 2
Joseph H. Lewis = 2
Jules Dassin = 2
John Cromwell = 2
Robert Rossen = 2

Alfred Hitchcock ends at the top with 7 entries, but Billy Wilder's remarkable closing with the Top 2 entries ties him for second place, along with Welles who also played 1 more to get to 4. Huston earned his third one, while Carol Reed earned his second one.

Citizen Rules

04-27-24, 11:33 PM

My own ballot:

Citizen Rules
1 Sweet Smell of Success (1957)***#9
2 Leave Her to Heaven (1945)***#37
3 Mildred Pierce (1945)***#15
4 The Asphalt Jungle (1950)***#16
5 Scarlet Street (1945)***#29
6 Laura (1944)***#10
7 Pickup on South Street (1953)***#21
8 Nightmare Alley (1947)***#33
9 The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (1946)***40
10 The Big Heat (1953)***#17
11 Ride the Pink Horse (1947)***#45
12 Detour (1945)***#24
13 Murder, My Sweet (1944)***#28
14 The Postman Always Rings Twice (1946)***#23
15 Night and the City (1950)***#25
16 Too Late for Tears (1949) ***#81
17 Kansas City Confidential (1952)***#53
18 Detective Story (1951)***#57
19 The Set-Up (1949)***#46
20 Sunset Blvd. (1950)***#2
21 Double Indemnity (1944)***#1
22 The Killing (1956)***#11
23 Kiss Me Deadly 1955***#13
24 The Big Knife (1955) Didn't make it
25 Crime Wave 1953 1 Pointer

PHOENIX74

04-28-24, 12:43 AM

YES! The #1 and #2 on the Countdown are my #1 and #2, in the correct order... (that makes 4 matches with my ballot)

#2 - Sunset Boulevard (1950) - Love it, absolutely love it. It would be interesting for me to look through these films and take aside the ones I've only seen in the last 5 years or so. This one I'd kept on hearing about, and I won't embarrass myself by saying what I thought it was! (I was way off.) The only thing I knew was that it started off with William Holden floating in a pool dead, and telling his story as a narrator. Norma Desmond is a great, and a totally sympathetic, villain - the best ones are a little crazy (or in this case a lot) and also ones you feel a little sorry for. I nearly fell off my chair when I saw Buster Keaton show up for a game of cards with her. Anyway, apparently it's not at all strange to love this movie - many have been doing that for longer than I've been alive. One of the all time greats - I had it at #2 on my ballot.

#1 - Double Indemnity (1944) - Love it, indubitably love it. Here's another film I didn't see until the last half a dozen years or so. Crackling dialogue with Fred MacMurray, Barbara Stanwyck (that wig!) and Edward G. Robinson all playing important parts in a heart-pounding tale of infidelity and murder. How many people have killed to try and make a fortune with life insurance? It's an awfully silly thing to do, because of course you're going to be suspected - especially if it's known that you didn't care for the spouse/family member you did away with. You might think you've got all the angles covered - but it only takes one small thing to bring it all undone. Anyway, once again it's not a head-scratcher, loving this movie. It's one of the best, and my favourite film noir classic. I had it, yep - at #1 on my ballot.

All of the films on my list showed up.

Many thanks to Citizen Rules for hosting a very successful countdown!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 39/100
I'd never even heard of : 47/100
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 15/100
Films from my list : 25

#1 - My #1 - Double Indemnity (1944)
#2 - My #2 - Sunset Boulevard (1950)
#3 - My #5 - The Maltese Falcon (1941)
#5 - My #8 - Touch of Evil
#6 - My #3 - In a Lonely Place (1950)
#7 - My #7 - Out of the Past (1947)
#8 - My #6 - The Big Sleep (1946)
#9 - My #9 - Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
#10 - My #24 - Laura (1944)
#11 - My #13 - The Killing (1956)
#13 - My #4 - Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
#14 - My #10 - The Night of the Hunter (1955)
#16 - My #15 - The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
#21 - My #17 - Pickup on South Street (1953)
#24 - My #20 - Detour (1945)
#27 - My #14 - Gilda (1946)
#28 - My #11 - Murder, My Sweet (1944)
#31 - My #25 - The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
#33 - My #22 - Nightmare Alley (1947)
#36 - My #16 - Gun Crazy (1950)
#44 - My #19 - Criss Cross (1949)
#54 - My #12 - D.O.A. (1950)
#58 - My #23 - The Breaking Point (1950)
#61 - My #21 - Act of Violence (1949)
#67 - My #18 - The Hitch-Hiker (1953)

Iroquois

04-28-24, 12:45 AM

1. sunset blvd.
2. the third man
3. the night of the hunter
4. kiss me deadly
5. the killing
6. rififi
7. los olvidados
8. the big sleep
9. touch of evil
10. ace in the hole
11. elevator to the gallows
12. mildred pierce
13. stray dog
14. drunken angel
15. diabolique
16. the maltese falcon
17. double indemnity
18. the lost weekend
19. pickup on south street
20. notorious
21. odd man out
22. shadow of a doubt
23. bob le flambeur
24. the killers
25. detour

ThatDarnMKS

04-28-24, 01:26 AM

Seen 80/100

Citizen Rules

04-28-24, 02:50 AM

I seen 100/100 and that's the only time I will be able to say that. Any other countdown and my seen count is usually below everyone else's average. I bet in the Neo Noir I'm not even 50/100.

dadgumblah

04-28-24, 03:05 AM

Great films to top the countdown! I like Sunset Blvd just a little better than Double Indemnity but that's just because the former appealed to my taste of the bizarre more. I mean, we've got a narrating corpse, an aging star in her decrepit mansion with a dead chimp(!!!), a devoted butler/ex-director/ex-husband, a group of silent-film stars that Norma calls "waxworks" that show up to play bridge, including Buster Keaton. All these things writer/corpse Joe Gillis (William Holden) discovers in flashback as he enters the world of faded and forgotten silent star Norma Desmond (Gloria Swanson in her greatest role). Attending to most of her needs is the aforementioned butler/director/ex-husband Max Von Mayerling (real-life director/actor/writer Erich von Stroheim). All her needs except for those that a young, virile writer like Gillis can provide. He eventually becomes her kept-man, and begins to loathe everyone, especially himself. Norma will fall in love with Joe and this will lead to disaster.

This is a dark version of the inner-workings of Hollywood, and although not a particularly humorous film, humor can be found in all the sordidness if you want to look for it. It's dark, sad, sadly funny, and just all-out great.

Double Indenmity is classic Noir with Fred MacMurray falling for Barbara Stanwyck and plotting to help kill her husband in a way that has to do with the title of the film. It has to happen in just a certain style to get more money and of course things go wrong for the two lovers. Fred's best friend, played by an awesome Edward G. Robinson is too smart and being an insurance investigator, begins to piece things together. That he and Fred are best friends complicates things. I loved Fred being a bad boy here, and I got a kick out him calling Barbara "baby." So accustomed to seeing him in comedies, his playing a cheater driven to murder was a treat for me. Stanwyck was fine but the two friends were the more interesting relationship for me here. Billy Wilder did great directing in both films, with awesome cinematography by the same man, John F. Seitz. Nice to see these two classics make it to the very top!

Great thanks owed to Citizen Rules, Holden Pike, Thief, and Yoda as always. Superb work, guys! Fun, imformative, and good-looking Countdown. And with everyone's list, I found a film I could mark down for my Watch List. Win/win!

James D. Gardiner

04-28-24, 03:05 AM

https://i.imgur.com/XdWDm0S.jpg

Double Indemnity was my #1. I re-watched it before the countdown not really expecting to have it on my ballot, but ended up being so impressed by it to that extent. And it makes up for my first pick of the War Countdown finishing at #101. :D Most on my list made it - 19/25 - and I also had a few films that were always going to be too obscure. Little bit surprised not to see Odds Against Tomorrow or Human Desire show up. Not bothered by it but interesting as I had the impression they were more widely regarded. My complete list:

1. Double Indemnity
2. The Narrow Margin
3. On Dangerous Ground
4. Force of Evil
5. Scarlet Street
6. The Third Man
7. The Set-Up
8. Crossfire
9. Pickup on South Street
10. I Want to Live!
11. Human Desire
12. Touch of Evil
13. Sweet Smell of Success
14. Follow Me Quietly
15. Key Largo
16. Sorry, Wrong Number
17. Macao
18. The Killing
19. He Walked by Night
20. Odds Against Tomorrow
21. The Big Combo
22. Woman on the Run
23. D.O.A.
24. Screaming Mimi
25. Suddenly

Seen: 62/100

Such a great topic for a countdown, and many thanks to Citizen Rules for his enthusiasm and dedication, as well as for everyone else's contributions. Been a lot of fun to watch and a lot of great new films for me to check out.

mrblond

04-28-24, 04:25 AM

Citizen Rules, well done work! :up:

-----
My Ballot
▽
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/sC4Dpmn87oz9AuxZ15Lmip0Ftgr.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/ovvWrzp58tc2f59n3In34wtOwV6.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/nW0cCpfuGcR1JG7EinDbdL2Ijf2.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/lLZ366NsPpcfjWmNFtH0KBtInfb.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/76zZNcz3pR2EEUwAKLO1MTHkVDa.jpg
1. Sunset Blvd. (1950) [#2]
2. Rebecca (1940) [#35]
3. Double Indemnity (1944) [#1]
4. The Wrong Man (1956) [#39]
5. Suspicion (1941) [#49]

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/8fT4u4LOVdNABCjyFjCj9Gc1u9W.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/ptyWagbWE8jSGyV2tGEzAdVbRCj.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/kIkPJnMVvFPt08siIJB5G8h8WDO.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/1NwZ6Sx4Eq7eT02abcI7YqfXdJk.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/7yY32i0KZtA1cQmbjGHYR1B40h7.jpg
6. The Killing (1956) [#11]
7. Shadow of a Doubt (1943) [#12]
8. The Asphalt Jungle (1950) [#16]
9. Ace in the Hole (1951) [#19]
10. The Postman Always Rings Twice (1946) [#23]

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/hz2gG5D3GHaaPZUSnRNjMC3Wl1r.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/hIsRVPP0zqGGrm6Sh7wI1meeB0E.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/1CxM5dNRG3m3woa3cEgTCJwi1yG.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/yUjKnpColooH88BFQJwwgNOQ56N.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/5fZWKQREZ3QVNjBKMLa7NmqufnE.jpg
11. Gilda (1946) [#27]
12. The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (1946) [#40]
13. Mildred Pierce (1945) [#15]
14. Notorious (1946) [#20]
15. The Lost Weekend (1945) [#34]

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/yAnhMsPxDNjAEhOZ9iNlgU29Zfc.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/xJZJukxMOuNxl2f7TeAYxDHi921.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/pZUBI77RMu652QmtWL9RBWF1uO6.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/1WT7az5rvteBNmgJrZoRb6whhuB.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/2NBmzm8z5fd283eWeECkPrkwta8.jpg
16. Out of the Past (1947) [#7]
17. The Big Heat (1953) [#17]
18. The Big Sleep (1946) [#8]
19. Key Largo (1948) [#26]
20. Night and the City (1950) [#25]

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/f9ZXZkbgZmQhYDnGHoMPaFIbSbh.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/7xfLUISDZ1zZ8vPU5Y7j5mv0Xvc.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/8RttDdrSVwYSSwGpmil0z3vu98g.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/s2E4Ifgug7lTkVsv3hrFADAqYc5.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w154/m9ftjuwaaKHR4iv5SgMpXA5pIGN.jpg
21. Spellbound (1945) [#68]
22. Sweet Smell of Success (1957) [#9]
23. Woman on the Run (1950) [#91]
24. High Sierra (1940) [#50]
25. Niagara (1953) [#56]
-----

stillmellow

04-28-24, 07:08 AM

Despite a woeful start (the first movie in the countdown i'd seen was #54, D.O.A.), I ended with an acceptable 35 out of 100 seen. That's 65 movies on my watch list. 😀

Thank you to everyone involved in putting this together!

John-Connor

04-28-24, 07:46 AM

98814
There was a national holiday going on over here, the King's birthday, so sadly I missed the grand finale. The countdown ended perfectly, it's a beautiful Film-Noir Top 100 we can all be proud of. Thanks to all participants! Special thanks to Thief, Holden Pike, Citizen Rules, Yoda, your work is very much appreciated.

Full Ballot Reveal

1. Double Indemnity (1944)
2. The Maltese Falcon (1941)
3. The Narrow Margin (1952)
4. Out of the Past (1947)
5. Murder, My Sweet (1944)
6. In a Lonely Place (1950)
7. The Big Heat (1953)
8. Rebecca (1940)
9. Leave Her to Heaven (1945)
10. Bob Le Flambeur (1956)
11. The Breaking Point (1950)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
13. The Killing (1956)
14. Gilda (1946)
15. Notorious (1946)
16. Sunset Boulevard (1950)
17. The Wrong Man (1956)
18. Night and the City (1950)
19. The Mob (1951) DNP
20. Kansas City Confidential (1952)
21. The Third Man (1949)
22. Laura (1944)
23. The Set-Up (1949)
24. I Walk Alone (1947) DNP
25. Kiss of Death (1947)

James D. Gardiner

04-28-24, 09:19 AM

... it took me about 4 tries to love Sunset Blvd.

Nice to know I've got at least 2 viewings to go. :D

Harry Lime

04-28-24, 09:25 AM

The Maltese Falcon was on the most lists eh? It's at 49 vs Double Indemnity at 48, out of 57 in total. Interesting.

Harry Lime

04-28-24, 09:28 AM

Yearly Breakdown

1940 = 4
1941 = 2
1942 = 1
1943 = 2
1944 = 8
1945 = 7
1946 = 11
1947 = 11
1948 = 10
1949 = 7
1950 = 11
1951 = 4
1952 = 3
1953 = 5
1954 = 0
1955 = 6
1956 = 4
1957 = 1
1958 = 3
1959 = 0

Also "quality" at least based on the stats seem to peak for the five years after the war and then taper off considerably.

Yoda

04-28-24, 10:14 AM

Thank you Citizen Rules! The work is very much appreciated. :up:

Torgo

04-28-24, 10:22 AM

Thanks, Citizen. Here's my (incomplete) ballot. I bolded the ones that didn't make it.

1. The Third Man
2. The Killing
3. In a Lonely Place
4. Double Indemnity
5. The Maltese Falcon
6. Touch of Evil
7. Notorious
8. Detour
9. Out of the Past
10. Act of Violence
11. White Heat
12. On Dangerous Ground
13. Phenix City Story
14. Key Largo
15. Crossfire
16. The Hitch-Hiker
17. Kansas City Confidential
18. The Big Steal
19. Stray Dog

Citizen Rules

04-28-24, 12:17 PM

I don't know if it's crazier that I didn't care for Double Indemnity the 1st time I watched it, or that it took me about 4 tries to love Sunset Blvd. At least I got there.

Nice to know I've got at least 2 viewings to go. :DI didn't like Sunset Blvd. on my first watch either. Now after a couple more viewings I love it, and it made my ballot.

Little Ash

04-28-24, 12:39 PM

I do want to give CR a big thanks on hosting this countdown.

I was initially somewhat skeptical about splitting the neo vs classic, but I think, the final list actually serves as a decent list for someone, like me, who would like to have seen more classic noir, but doesn't have a great sense of what are the big ones I'm missing. And it's actually kind of hard to get a list of film noir movies on the major movie sites.

John W Constantine

04-28-24, 01:14 PM

....and 100/100.

Thursday Next

04-28-24, 01:28 PM

53/100 seen

Including two I caught up with yesterday, The Woman in the window and The Stranger . Both good films.

Citizen Rules

04-28-24, 02:14 PM

....and 100/100.You over achiever you🙂

Thief

04-28-24, 02:21 PM

You over achiever you🙂

He did 100/100 at the Neo-noir too.

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaHJ2cWU5c2lza2Zrem9yZW9jNm8yc2lpajRhdDB6aDdwYTIzbmg1NCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/MLngOTPeSlC5Sm2sr8/giphy.gif

:D

WHITBISSELL!

04-28-24, 03:32 PM

2 for 2 on this final day to finish up the countdown with 66 films out of the 100 watched.Actually it was 69 out of 100 since I watched The Big Combo, Pickup on South Street and Notorious. Didn't want to include them while the countdown was going on.

https://y.yarn.co/1193fc67-b0a5-4f5f-8b9d-5d0a157cf944_text.gif

culliford

04-28-24, 04:04 PM

I didn't participate much but I really appreciate the list, the work you've done, and everyone's insightful comments. Also thanks to Holden, I enjoy your trivia and musings, as well as the videos you linked.

Citizen Rules

04-28-24, 04:10 PM

He did 100/100 at the Neo-noir too.Yeah, John W Constantine finishes first in the HoFs too, he's a movie watching machine.:)

Harry Lime

04-28-24, 04:24 PM

....and 100/100.
https://y.yarn.co/89ade1bd-1cc0-4b75-b1ef-f452e88035e3_text.gif

John W Constantine

04-28-24, 05:33 PM

I am the greatest movie watching person of all time.

Captain Spaulding

04-28-24, 06:37 PM

Captain Spaulding's Noir Ballot

#1) Sunset Boulevard
https://crackedrearviewer.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/sb6.gif

#2) Double Indemnity
https://www.simbasible.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/1-19.gif

#3) The Maltese Falcon
https://garrettzecker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/maltese.gif

#4) Night and the City
https://64.media.tumblr.com/70d252def935b0772917e3de5d59810e/tumblr_pgy4egSDn51wpdmero1_500.gif

#5) In a Lonely Place
https://64.media.tumblr.com/24b064ea32e8b001f074f664f9e6226b/tumblr_mok3d2CNFO1r6ja9oo1_500.gif

#6) Notorious
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c2/d8/b3/c2d8b360fc28372dbbc742dd5adaf950.gif

#7) Shadow of a Doubt
https://64.media.tumblr.com/943c2b1ed7e980d4411dd36950b85f41/tumblr_p6w5wtkdFQ1tset9yo2_500.gif

#8) Pickup on South Street
https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-09-2020/cC1Fal.gif

#9) Rififi
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/851a7c_43f9ace4ddda48769b88871552f451c4~mv2.gif

#10) Scarlet Street
https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-17-2021/5m8gEM.gif

#11) The Big Sleep
https://64.media.tumblr.com/cbbba1658523cea02b17a7f195b7097f/tumblr_oof44vSgBC1qdm4tlo1_500.gif

#12) The Third Man
https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1656047715ra/33090900.gif

#13) White Heat
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a5/25/ce/a525cee0cdcc199e286d3b8c62aa5f69.gif

#14) Strangers on a Train
https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1471879881ra/20119407.gif

#15) The Stranger
https://64.media.tumblr.com/fd654ecdd61d080e620ae2c9df32f9be/tumblr_njbctnTuIb1qe4ru4o2_500.gif

#16) The Harder They Fall
https://64.media.tumblr.com/e337fc67879d8a0e655285189c069b0d/tumblr_phzciemvky1wpdmero2_500.gif

#17) He Ran All the Way
https://i.imgur.com/RrFUyH8.jpg

#18) Kansas City Confidential
https://64.media.tumblr.com/d296c205cfba59e8ad9d58689abe9c56/tumblr_p7xu39o89y1wpdmero8_500.gif

#19) The Killing
https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExN215dnI4ZHlsYmp5OHMyNWhjM2hkbWVkbGNwZ2JtbmJsdWwycDlyNSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/m1oue7t5WVdsc/giphy.gif

#20) Mildred Pierce
https://gr8erdays.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/tumblr_nzdq6rkY4M1qicfexo1_500.gif

#21) Hangover Square
https://64.media.tumblr.com/3497e70b9eff334a4d6a9b7c0101a4e8/d15e05c28d038872-8f/s540x810/ef6c58be47ab35b4d049e1298bc2fc36de7f48c4.gif

#22) Key Largo
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-s862tue29Vc/UsJoN9YTWxI/AAAAAAAAFBk/3RJTWex8qaM/s640/tumblr_m9wjbgM3881qdm4tlo1_500.gif

#23) Touch of Evil
https://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj8qp5yZdE1qzr8nao1_500.gif

#24) The Asphalt Jungle
https://www.criminalelement.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/hayden.gif

#25) I Wake Up Screaming
https://64.media.tumblr.com/ffb067e41705d40b1dc6490cbe0c948d/tumblr_ny4h2eDczm1qe4ru4o1_540.gif

GulfportDoc

04-28-24, 08:45 PM

...
Bacall for sure. The images came up in a search for Musso and Franks celebrities. Though I can't say for sure as I've never been there:D. I did see another image of a young Dennis Hooper that was supposedly in Musso and Franks.
Oh yeah, I'm sure Hopper was there. His father too (William Hopper-- Paul Drake, Perry Mason's investigator from the original series)...;) I can almost guarantee you that every name actor --and many lesser ones-- have all dined at Musso & Franks. I've seen dozens of celebrities there. One night we sat right beside Bob Hope. Saw Steve Landesberg, Debbie Reynolds; got waved at by Roger Ebert. At one time or another all of Hollywood ate there.

GulfportDoc

04-28-24, 08:54 PM

...
Repeating Directors
Alfred Hitchcock ends at the top with 7 entries, but Billy Wilder's remarkable closing with the Top 2 entries ties him for second place, along with Welles who also played 1 more to get to 4. Huston earned his third one, while Carol Reed earned his second one.
That's funny..🙂 I'm sure Hitchcock would have been surprised to hear that he'd been credited with 7 noirs. 4 maybe. 7? Nah.

Outside of our own countdown world, Siodmak directed more noirs than anyone. I'd have to check, but I believe Cornell Woolrich's stories were used for the most noir screenplays.

Sedai

04-29-24, 12:39 PM

Two top notch films round out the Classic Noir countdown, and of course both were on my ballot.

I have Sunset Boulevard at #15. I sort of scratch my head as to why I had it on the back half of my ballot, as I do adore the film, and at one point, was sort of binge watching it weekly. That was some time ago though, so I am guessing the fact that io hadn't revisited it in so long is the culprit here. Probably deserves to be higher.

https://bookandfilmglobe.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/GAC_SunsetBoulevard4.jpg

I love the fact that this guy pretty much becomes a prisoner, but not only are there no locks on the doors, there aren't even any latches or knobs. I also love the Betty character and Erich Von Stroheim as Max. A quirky, sort of bizarre film that is a ton of fun, but also ultimately sad.

Double Indemnity is a fine film to take the top slot. I have seen it several times, and it is always a pleasure to watch. That said, it is not a Top 5 favorite of mine, and I think its placement on my ballot still feels just right sitting at #8. It's Top 10 material, but just doesn't rank among my favorites of the style. Great stuff, though!

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2019/07/30/gettyimages-1065246004_wide-db14613126abfe5ba6d08af6ff286a087a92e33f-s1100-c50.jpg

https://filmschoolrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Barbara-Stanwyck-in-Double-Indemnity.jpg

Sedai

04-29-24, 04:52 PM

Last but certainly not least: Thank you to all the folks who brought this countdown to life, especially Citizen Rules and Yoda. I adore classic noir, but realized during this countdown that I still have a lot of catching up to do. I will continue my rectifications, hopefully eventually reaching 100% on the list.

beelzebubble

04-29-24, 06:17 PM

I am the greatest movie watching person of all time.
:facepalm: Don't let Minio hear you say that.

What a zowey ending!! A double Wilder. Both great movies especially Sunset Boulevard. Unfortunately it wasn't on my list. I didn't really think of it as Noir. It is more like Los Angeles Gothic. A kind of psychological horror about the film industry. Double Indemnity was, of course on my list. I had it at #14.

I think all my picks were on the list, except for Deception and my #25, A Woman's Face. I love Deception. Bette Davis tries to keep the fact that she has been a kept woman since her man has been trapped in Europe during WWII. It's has got the great Claude Rains as her ex-lover and Paul Henreid as the man she has been waiting for. It is an excellent movie. Watching Bette Davis try to play these guys is very entertaining.
Oh, I almost forgot, a big thanks to our man Citizen Rules for running this countdown. Also to Holden, et. al. for there stats and extra info. I apologize if I missed anyone.

GulfportDoc

04-29-24, 08:41 PM

Citizen Rules

04-30-24, 11:37 AM

Yeah, both CR and Thief did great work on the countdowns, but to my taste I'd rather we had done one, then the other, just to spread them out a little.I honestly don't see that as workable. If we would've done 6 months on just the noir countdown, then afterwards another 6 months on the neo noir countdown, many MoFos would've been upset about it taking so long. Plus, the neo noir countdown starting after the noir countdown would've seemed like an afterthought or 'yesterday's newspaper', as people had just done the noir countdown...Enthusiasm to do 'part 2' would be low.

If the idea of noir countdowns being done consecutively had been floated, people would've then insisted that both countdowns should be combined into one. Indeed some said just that...of course they weren't probably big fans of old film noir so didn't really care about making a solid Top 100 noir list. But I did...and that's why I was adamant and pushed the idea of duel noir countdowns, so that we could have a solid Top 100 noir countdown list and a Top 100 neo noir countdown list too...All done in the same time frame that just one countdown would take. I'm happy with the way both countdowns turned out.

ScarletLion

04-30-24, 12:09 PM

Good countdown, thanks for hosting. My list:

1. Kiss me Deadly (1955)
2. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
3. Sunset Blvd (1950)
4. Elevator to the Gallows (1958)
5. The Third Man (1949)
6. Touch of Evil (1958)
7. The Lady from Shanghai (1947)
8. The Killing (1956)
9. Double Indemnity (1944)
10. The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
11. Ace in the Hole (1951)
12. The Maltese Falcon
13. Mildred Pierce (1945)
14. Detour (1945)
15. The Wrong Man (1956)
16. Nightmare Alley (1947)
17. The Hitch-Hiker (1953)
18. In a Lonely Place (1950)
19. Out of the Past (1947)
20. Pickup on South Street (1953)
21. They Live by Night (1948)
22. The Big Heat (1953)

Diehl40

04-30-24, 06:48 PM

Diehl40's Film Noir List

1. Double Indemnity
2. Touch of Evil
3. The Third Man
4. Out of the Past
5. The Big Sleep
6. Laura
7. The Maltese Falcon
8. The Night of the Hunter
9. Act of Violence
10. Gilda
11. Ace in the Hole
12. The Big Heat
13. The Wrong Man
14. Mildred Pierce
15. Criss Cross
16. Murder My Sweet
17. The Strange Love of Martha Ivers
18. Gun Crazy
19. Sweet Smell of Success
20. Detour
21. Asphalt Jungle
22. Desperate Hours
23. Angel Face
24. Best the Devil
25. Beyond a Reasonable doubt

GulfportDoc

04-30-24, 07:25 PM

I honestly don't see that as workable. If we would've done 6 months on just the noir countdown, then afterwards another 6 months on the neo noir countdown, many MoFos would've been upset about it taking so long. Plus, the neo noir countdown starting after the noir countdown would've seemed like an afterthought or 'yesterday's newspaper', as people had just done the noir countdown...Enthusiasm to do 'part 2' would be low.

If the idea of noir countdowns being done consecutively had been floated, people would've then insisted that both countdowns should be combined into one. Indeed some said just that...of course they weren't probably big fans of old film noir so didn't really care about making a solid Top 100 noir list. But I did...and that's why I was adamant and pushed the idea of duel noir countdowns, so that we could have a solid Top 100 noir countdown list and a Top 100 neo noir countdown list too...All done in the same time frame that just one countdown would take. I'm happy with the way both countdowns turned out.
Oh, I agree with your points. I didn't mean run them consecutively. I meant run them at entirely different times, even months apart. Just my druthers.

I enjoyed them both, but I joined the neo-noir one just as a lark-- to participate. Classic noir is tricky to define. IMO several films I saw listed on IMDB or Wikipedia as "noir" really are not. I think the tendency is to name any crime film shot in black & white from 1940 to 1960 as noir.

Neo-noir? All over the map. Almost any crime film since 1960 seems to qualify...:D But who cares, as long as everyone is having a good time.

Citizen Rules

04-30-24, 07:33 PM

Oh, I agree with your points. I didn't mean run them consecutively. I meant run them at entirely different times, even months apart. Just my druthers.

I enjoyed them both, but I joined the neo-noir one just as a lark-- to participate. Classic noir is tricky to define. IMO several films I saw listed on IMDB or Wikipedia as "noir" really are not. I think the tendency is to name any crime film shot in black & white from 1940 to 1960 as noir.

Neo-noir? All over the map. Almost any crime film since 1960 seems to qualify...:D But who cares, as long as everyone is having a good time.I see what you're saying Doc and in a perfect world we would've done them as you said, many months apart. I just don't think the MoFos would've went for that:eek: I agree too that many of us had different definitions of what was and wasn't noir. I know I don't think of Hitch as doing noir. Maybe a couple of his films, but mostly he's grounded in the British tradition of mystery thrillers...and no one done them better but they don't feel like noir to me. Though look at it this way are #1 noir was certainly noir...Double Indemnity.

rauldc14

04-30-24, 07:48 PM

Rauldc14's List

1. Double Indemnity
2. Ride the Pink Horse
3. Laura
4. Shadow of a Doubt
5. In a Lonely Place
6. Sunset Boulevard
7. The Third Man
8. Gilda
9. The Night of the Hunter
10. The Killers
11. The Maltese Falcon
12. Strangers on a Train
13. The Big Sleep
14. Gun Crazy
15. Sweet Smell of Success
16. Scarlett Street
17. Out of the Past
18. Mildred Pierce
19. Detour
20. Touch of Evil
21. The Postman Always Rings Twice
22. The Suspect
23. Caged
24. The Woman in the Window
25. Leave Her to Heaven

Everything made it!

Sedai

04-30-24, 09:24 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/gkmX2ZfC/Noir-Ballot-Graphic.jpg

Fabulous

05-03-24, 09:28 PM

My List

Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
Brute Force (1947)
The Killers (1946)
Key Largo (1948)
Caged (1950)
Niagara (1953)
The Harder They Fall (1956)
The Wrong Man (1956)
Ace in the Hole (1951)
The Maltese Falcon (1941)
Touch of Evil (1958)
The Lost Weekend (1945)
In a Lonely Place (1950)
Notorious (1946)
Stray Dog (1949)
Death of a Cyclist (1955)
Where the Sidewalk Ends (1950)
Kiss of Death (1947)
Phone Call from a Stranger (1952)
White Heat (1949)
Out of the Past (1947)
The Big Sleep (1946)
The Big Heat (1953)
Act of Violence (1948)
The Postman Always Rings Twice (1946)

Frightened Inmate No. 2

05-26-24, 04:14 PM

my list:

1. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
2. The Wrong Man (1956)
3. On Dangerous Ground (1951)
4. Pickup on South Street (1953)
5. Out of the Past (1947)
6. Double Indemnity (1944)
7. The Big Sleep (1946)
8. In a Lonely Place (1950)
9. Strangers on a Train (1951)
10. Night and the City (1950)
11. Fallen Angel (1945)
12. The Lady from Shanghai (1947)
13. The Narrow Margin (1952)
14. Ride the Pink Horse (1947)
15. Touch of Evil (1958)
16. The Breaking Point (1950)
17. Laura (1944)
18. Confidential Report (1955)
19. The Big Heat (1953)
20. The Maltese Falcon (1941)
21. Key Largo (1948)
22. Phantom Lady (1944)
23. Clash by Night (1952)
24. Party Girl (1958)
25. They Live By Night (1948)

Citizen Rules

05-26-24, 04:21 PM

my list:
That's an impressive list! So many of the noir ballots really impressed me with just how well watched people were in noir. Kudos for Party Girl (1958), I almost voted for that myself.
Thanks Inmate for participating!

WrinkledMind

05-29-24, 12:03 PM

I thought this would be a better place to post this than the TV tab.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6l5PsvDvtnnHfcWdbMW-Mb7xygkfpJ1JmkQ&usqp=CAU

It's a Noir, mystery series that pays plenty of tributes to the old Noir flicks, because the protagonist loves movies. It has an unexpected twist.

Just eight episodes long & done quite well.

PS: Belated thanks to Citizen Rules for running this. I hadn't watched a lot of old Noir movies, but I have added few from this list to my watchlist.

GulfportDoc

05-29-24, 08:47 PM

I thought this would be a better place to post this than the TV tab.

It's a Noir, mystery series that pays plenty of tributes to the old Noir flicks, because the protagonist loves movies. It has an unexpected twist.

Just eight episodes long & done quite well.

PS: Belated thanks to Citizen Rules for running this. I hadn't watched a lot of old Noir movies, but I have added few from this list to my watchlist.
I agree, a good series. Colin Farrell was first rate as sort of a classic noir shamus.... with a big twist.

My beef was that most of the episodes were too short, so that one had to wait a week just to see a 30 minute continuing episode, which hurt the continuity for me.

The ending left it wide open for another season, but I haven't seen anything about that.

I just read that the all the classic noir clips they used were so short because anything under X amount of seconds doesn't have to be paid for. I had wondered why they were so short.

iluv2viddyfilms

06-14-24, 03:10 AM

I missed commenting in this countdown, but I was able to get in my top 25 film noirs list and here is mine. Great final list from MoFo by the way, which does show this is probably the most well versed and knowledgeable film forum on the entire interwebs.

Actually, and I'm not being flippant or sarcastic here, but are there ANY other film forums on the internet since Rotten Tomatoes got rid of theirs? Having been with MoFo for over 20 years and having been an admin at the long-time defunct www.moviejustice.com, having been a long time message board poster over at Rotten Tomatoes, and even from time to time Metacritic (where I found and recruited mark f to come to MoFo back around 2004-2005-ish), it's very sad for me to see so few options and that forums are a "dying breed" in a world of TikTok, Instagram, and snapchat... not to get too off topic, nostalgic, or overly maudlin here (although certainly the tone does fit with the noir genre), but it is rather tragic and heartbreaking to see that message board forums... especially those devoted to the discussion and love of film are quickly going the way of the buffalo in this crazy brave new world.

Wow... I had zero intention of writing that when I clicked "reply" In any event. The point remains... damn proud of MoFo and the insane work of CitizenRules to compile all this information, do the math, and the effort and time to jazz it all up.

So here's my list. Very happy to see In a Lonely Place, which is my top film noir and in my top 10 films of all time, made the cut. It's such a deep and personal dive into the genre and I have always adored Nicholas Ray. I especially admire how he presents time and one thing he does with In a Lonely Place is play with time as night bleeds into late night which bleeds into the wee early hours on the morning, which bleeds into the next day. It's a somewhat clever take or variation of Aristotle's Unity of Time... Nic Ray really draws out so many scenes in his films... think the night in Rebel Without a Cause or Sterling Hayden arriving in the bar that huge long 30-40 minute opening scene in Johnny Guitar. I would argue that In a Lonely Place is also Bogart's best and most intensely vulnerable performance.

I did see two Hitchcock films on the list, Rebecca and Notorious which are my second and third favorite Hitchcock films, respectively. I didn't put them on my list, simply because I don't really think of them as film noirs, but rather thrillers or mystery films as there really isn't an intimate or personal "crime" element to them, as is with most film noir. In that sense I was even tempted to leave of Sunset Blvd, as I've always thought it stretches the definition (I guess it does start off with a dead body... poor William Holden) of what I was taught in film class as what defined film noir, but I did put it on my list because I could be completely wrong in my classification of the genre and it is generally accepted by film critics and scholars as not just noir, but one of the canonical noirs... so I put it on my list. It's also my favorite Billy Wilder film too, which is saying something as he's in my top 10 directors of all time list. It just edges out Double Indemnity for me.

But here's my list for those who were curious:

1. In a Lonely Place

https://s3.amazonaws.com/criterion-production/images/7804-ccb50cd20cf2dbaffb1f424f1e120f45/gloria_large.jpg https://filmobsessive.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/in_a_lonely_place_-_5-700x525.jpg

2. A Touch of Evil
3. The Big Sleep
4. Sunset Blvd
5. Double Indemnity
6. Elevator to the Gallows
7. The Maltese Falcon
8. Phantom Lady
9. The Woman in the Window
10. Odd Man Out
11. The Third Man
12. Scarlet Street
13. The Postman Always Rings Twice
14. The Naked City
15. Kiss of Death
16. Laura
17. Gilda
18. Leave Her to Heaven
19. Kiss Me Deadly
20. Mildred Pierce
21. The Lady From Shanghai
22. White Heat
23. Gun Crazy
24. The Asphalt Jungle
25. Night and the City

Citizen Rules

06-15-24, 04:51 PM

...damn proud of MoFo and the insane work of CitizenRules to compile all this information, do the math, and the effort and time to jazz it all up. Thanks! Like they say it takes a community and when it comes to countdowns that's so true.

...are there ANY other film forums on the internet since Rotten Tomatoes got rid of theirs? Having been with MoFo for over 20 years and having been an admin at the long-time defunct www.moviejustice.com (http://www.moviejustice.com), having been a long time message board poster over at Rotten Tomatoes, and even from time to time Metacritic (where I found and recruited mark f to come to MoFo back around 2004-2005-ish), it's very sad for me to see so few options and that forums are a "dying breed" in a world of TikTok, Instagram, and snapchat.. I'd say there are very few forums of any kind like MoFo. I don't know of any movies forums. This is the only place on the internet I hang out...and I'm so grateful for MovieForums existences and especially the solid community that makes it happen.

Thief

06-15-24, 07:11 PM

edarsenal

06-16-24, 01:05 PM

Actually, and I'm not being flippant or sarcastic here, but are there ANY other film forums on the internet since Rotten Tomatoes got rid of theirs? Having been with MoFo for over 20 years and having been an admin at the long-time defunct www.moviejustice.com, having been a long time message board poster over at Rotten Tomatoes, and even from time to time Metacritic (where I found and recruited mark f to come to MoFo back around 2004-2005-ish), it's very sad for me to see so few options and that forums are a "dying breed" in a world of TikTok, Instagram, and snapchat... not to get too off topic, nostalgic, or overly maudlin here (although certainly the tone does fit with the noir genre), but it is rather tragic and heartbreaking to see that message board forums... especially those devoted to the discussion and love of film are quickly going the way of the buffalo in this crazy brave new world.
As someone who has jumped from film forum to film forum since the mid-1990s, I have to say it was a breath of fresh air to find a community as devoted and as well structured as MoFo. But yeah, it's safe to say it's a dying medium.

That was the same with me; I had found one, Chasing the Frog, that was a great lil community but very small and therefore very limited in regards to really exploring various genres and decades of film. When I first discovered MoFo, beyond the initial warmth of the community, I was seriously, and continue to be, amazed at how every genre, every form, and fashion of cinephile found a home to discuss, share, and, so wonderfully important, explore. Everything. My film experience and discovery have been astronomical since joining this community. While many others seem to have vanished, it is a blessing and a joy that we all have found this mecca, this realm of knowledge, admiration, and love of films of all kinds.

edarsenal

06-16-24, 01:12 PM

I just realized that I had never posted my list, which was a first for a countdown in that every single nomination was on the Countdown. So, very cool.
And, of course, my love, appreciation, and admiration for Citizen Rules for Hosting. THANK YOU, my friend!!!

Watched 84 out of 100 (84%)
https://media1.giphy.com/media/XBEjiZ8ZHeM9kYbJFB/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ygwvf17g1sbxwg705grwiwknk88s9l9gfkkswfjh&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
1. The Asphalt Jungle (1950) (#16)
https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-21-2015/YUhc8X.gif
2. The Maltese Falcon (1941) (#3)
https://i.gifer.com/SEiG.gif
3. The Third Man (1946) (#4)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/2149887cec4ae823c64479941667d10d/8c8c23f99a412c7b-88/s540x810/a06373373b2aa8724cb9c419b1d2c23e70464e44.gif
4. Pickup on South Street (1953) (#21)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/cbbba1658523cea02b17a7f195b7097f/tumblr_oof44vSgBC1qdm4tlo1_500.gif
5. The Big Sleep (1946) (#8)
http://66.media.tumblr.com/bd204867c2e2a9dba12eec89fc22e709/tumblr_o7va6zQsuf1rdfgw4o1_500.gif
6. Laura (1944) (#10)
https://thelastdrivein.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/the-big-heat.gif?w=490
7. The Big Heat (1953) (#17)
https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-16-2020/dmLXlG.gif
8. Panic In The Streets (1950) (#98)
https://i.imgur.com/GfUkWvD.gif
9. Gilda (1946) (#27)
https://i0.wp.com/thelastdrivein.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/act-of-violence.jpg?resize=490%2C367
10. Act of Violence (1948) (#61)
https://s3.amazonaws.com/criterion-production/posts/3465-e6d78ee4a571ed74843ec13c26d25c0a/PINKHORSE_original.jpg
11. Ride The Pink Horse (1947) (#45)
https://i.gifer.com/embedded/download/8eo1.gif
12. Sunset Blvd. (1950) (#2)
https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-17-2018/0TsQo9.gif
13. The Killing (1956) (#11)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/a54e61bd5d4647e822dbe1eba113d9a0/tumblr_my8s8qMd4R1rdfgw4o1_500.gif
14. Odd Man Out (1947) (#47)
https://m.blog.hu/ez/ezer1film/image//tumblr_ng1ct2wazk1qjpslco1_500.gif
15. Touch of Evil (1958) (#5)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/232b0ed4d755bd30469443c96b506c44/330e7c81391d0bf6-17/s540x810/bf35b00b6194f802b26a5dbe0a8e16fd899d8e3a.gif
16. Where the Sidewalk Ends (1950) (#66)
https://nitratediva.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/701.png?w=526&h=392
17. The Stranger (1946) (#38)
https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-15-2023/BAQBP5.gif
18. Murder, My Sweet (1944) (#38)
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/90/2d/17902db95b7a6c82f8c67611d5e7181e.gif
19. Double Indemnity (1944) (#1)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/81b00162f391a4764caedd0ad7e227bb/tumblr_ozsddpHjvF1rxjpb7o1_500.gif
20. Out of the Past (1947) (#7)
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgRqDAOBy1uKwtrIyORBO-T64mE8OfrqRgqG9xHF_FQ436sMRwv48TsjnQQCEC4IRbMoN4LHAdrOMc8NBrinHeGPW0l2mcecreuNHiBkZIEz3L-Xibxg86mrB-C449yRtoll2f-bm_SHFY/s1600/tumblr_m9wjbgM3881qdm4tlo1_500.gif
21. Key Largo (1946) (#26)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/338da47e22cd4e2529ad5e7ca981d55d/tumblr_nuoitalClD1qi2gavo1_r1_500.gif
22. Body and Soul (1947) (#94)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/c4b2b9d03f01796c97ee105dd266ebcd/tumblr_prfgsaw6Yd1r6ja9oo1_540.gif
23. The Naked City (1948) (#98)
https://i0.wp.com/notesonfilm1.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/lizabeth-scott-smokes.gif?resize=604%2C453&ssl=1
24. Dead Reckoning (1946) (#95)
https://i.gifer.com/Mf9F.gif
25. The Killers (1946) (#22)

Rectification List
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7d07fff23daa8995a9164c60ad59d7ec/tumblr_oxdfnoexs11tr6ni8o1_500.gif
Stranger on the Third Floor (1940) (#92)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/253e72c72e5d0fd4638e2d5628a272b4/8e7481b5615ca770-a3/s540x810/e4d3fb68cbd5139b63fe554f9fc20027e49c644a.gif
Too Late for Tears (1949) (#81)
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ef/30/2b/ef302b90a04ec69fbea4b1d3f894876e.gif
Kansas City Confidential (1952) (#53)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/70d252def935b0772917e3de5d59810e/tumblr_pgy4egSDn51wpdmero1_500.gif
Night and the City (1950) (#25)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/e4cc5ce51b46410c2879000986c49f77/7368e4fcae57b7d4-3a/s540x810/fdeb52b5bff9e1015cefbdc9b9b1d9cf9b21f7ca.gif
The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (1946) (#40)