The MoFo Top 100 Film Noir Countdown [Archive] - Page 7

Thief

04-19-24, 12:47 PM

LAURA
(1944, Preminger)

https://i.imgur.com/5aNtKse.jpg

"Love is eternal. It has been the strongest motivation for human actions throughout history. Love is stronger than life. It reaches beyond the dark shadow of death."

Ever since I took an online course on film noir a couple of years ago, I've had my eyes on this one. But for some reason, I hadn't seen it yet, so thanks to ApexPredator for bringing it up. The film has all the ingredients of a perfect noir: dark surroundings, shady characters, skewed and subjective points of view, a potential femme fatale, etc. and yet it feels unique in its own way.

Laura follows up Mark McPherson, a New York detective (Dana Andrews) investigating the alleged murder of the titular character, who was a successful advertising executive. Some of the potential suspects are Waldo Lydecker (Clifton Webb), a newspaper columnist with a quick wit and a vicious tongue, and Shelby Carpenter (Vincent Price), a "kept man" that happens to be engaged to Laura. As Mark follows up the trail on Laura's murder, he wounds up finding twists and surprises in every corner while also developing a crush on the woman.

Laura, who we first meet through flashbacks, is played effectively by Gene Tierney. It isn't the "showiest" role, but she gets the job done. Similar things can be said about Andrews, who is cool and slick as the tough cop. He doesn't get to emote much, and him falling for Laura feels like a bit of a stretch, but I don't mind him. The show here belongs to Webb as Waldo Lydecker. From the first frame when you hear his narration, you know the film belongs to him. Webb does a perfect job in portraying a unique man; a man that is both confident and frail, strong but flawed. You never know what to expect from Lydecker, aside of his verbal attacks. Which is why we might tolerate absurdities like allowing a suspect to ride shotgun with a cop while interrogating other suspects.

I think I agree with Ebert, who said that the "absurdities and improbabilities somehow do not diminish the film's appeal. They may even add to it." Laura is not a perfect film, and yet it seems perfect in its own flawed way. It flows effortlessly, it pulls you in and keeps you in. Like Lydecker himself, a unique film it is: flawed, but perfect.

Grade: 4

Citizen Rules

04-19-24, 12:54 PM

I would have voted for it, but...

https://i.postimg.cc/NMC0g16D/Screenshot-20240419-114202-Letterboxd.jpg

Oh well. Glad it placed so high. Seeing the ways it inspired David Lynch makes it all the more enjoyable to watch as is how Twin Peaks references it beyond the obvious (there's a vet in the show named Dr. Lydecker, for instance).Ahh, the perils of using a phone to view the internet:cool: I don't know what web page that is in your screenshot....Here's IMDB's Laura page:

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=98638

Torgo

04-19-24, 12:56 PM

Ahh, the dangers of using a phone to view the internet:cool: I don't know what web page that is in your screenshot....Here's IMDB's Laura page:

98638It's Letterboxd, which I used as a guide to writing my ballot. Notice that noir is missing from the list of genres.

Citizen Rules

04-19-24, 12:58 PM

It's Letterboxd, which I used as a guide to writing my ballot. Notice that noir is missing from the list of genres.Ah, Letterboxd wasn't on our menu, only IMDB and Wiki.

Thief

04-19-24, 01:01 PM

List facts!

Laura is Otto Preminger's fourth entry, after three entries early in the backend: Where the Sidewalk Ends (#66), Fallen Angel (#80), and Angel Face (#86).

The film has a 100% RT score, which puts it in a tie with fifteen (15) other films that have perfect RT scores.

The point gaps between films will probably keep getting higher, but the 34-point gap between The Killing and Laura is the third highest.

Thief

04-19-24, 01:04 PM

It's Letterboxd, which I used as a guide to writing my ballot. Notice that noir is missing from the list of genres.

At the risk of sounding repetitive now at the end of the countdown, NOIR is not a genre per se and won't appear as a genre in most apps and platforms, including Letterboxd or TMDB. IMDb does have it, but not many others. That's why in the Neo-noir countdown, we used the "Themes" part, which you can see in the lower part of your screenshot, where it is labeled with "Noir and dark crime dramas".

Torgo

04-19-24, 01:09 PM

At the risk of sounding repetitive now at the end of the countdown, NOIR is not a genre per se and won't appear as a genre in most apps and platforms, including Letterboxd or TMDB. IMDb does have it, but not many others. That's why in the Neo-noir countdown, we used the "Themes" part, which you can see in the lower part of your screenshot, where it is labeled with "Noir and dark crime dramas".Got it. Oh well. I'll remember this when we do Noir/Neo-Noir II.

CosmicRunaway

04-19-24, 01:16 PM

From the near misses, I voted for The Hidden Room/Obsession. I had it at #20, and didn't think it was going to make the Countdown, so I'm glad it was at least close!

Laura, on the other hand, I knew would be here somewhere - the question was just where it would wind up. Happy to see if make the top 10, since it was my #1. I saw it in the 1940s Hall of Fame, and wrote this at the time:

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=28011&stc=1&d=1480894047
Laura (1944)
Dir. Otto Preminger
Starring: Dana Andrews, Clifton Webb, Gene Tierney

Laura is a film I've been looking forward to watching since it was nominated. I like film noirs, and I love Vincent Price, though it's strange to see him in something that's not a horror film. Also for once, Price wasn't my favourite performance. Clifton Webb as Waldo Lydecker was particularly great, stealing the show and keeping my attention even though I didn't like his character. He was still well written and a great part of the story, I just mean that I thought he was a despicable, unlikeable person.

Unfortunately I can't say much about the cinematography. I was too busy listening to the dialogue and being mesmerized by the actors, which is definitely a big plus for Laura because that's not normally the case when I watch these kinds of films. It wasn't until the final act when I started paying attention to the visuals. My favourite shots were rather late in the film: Lydecker and his shadow in the stairwell, and the image of the clock and it's shadow growing as the door opens behind it. The cinematography in the whole final act was great, so I'll definitely have to watch this again sometime soon and pay attention to the composition of the rest of the film.
Unfortunately I don't really have anything to add about either film, and can't even find a good gif of The Hidden Room/Obsession either. I'm going to have to start making those myself it seems!

Seen: 39/91

My List: 18
01. Laura (1944) - #10
02.
03. Stranger on the Third Floor (1940) - #92
04. Murder My Sweet (1944) - #28
05. Shadow of a Doubt (1943) - #12
06. Detour (1945) - #24
07. Rebecca (1940) - #35
08. Ministry of Fear (1944) - #75
09. The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (1946) - #40
10.
11. This Gun for Hire (1942) - #78
12. Mildred Pierce (1945) - #15
13. Odd Man Out (1947) - #47
14.
15. Strangers on a Train (1951) - #18
16.
17. The Asphalt Jungle (1950) - #16
18. Night and the City (1950) - #25
19. Phantom Lady (1944) - #69
20. The Hidden Room/Obsession (1949) - DNP
21.
22. The Killing (1956) - #11
23.
24. Kiss Me Deadly (1955) - #14
25. The Stranger (1946) - #38

Thief

04-19-24, 01:19 PM

Got it. Oh well. I'll remember this when we do Noir/Neo-Noir II.

NEO-NOIR II: NEO-NOIR BOOGALOO!!

Then again, Citizen didn't include Letterboxd among his options for confirmation, whereas I did. That's probably the most persistent issue that we had in the countdown and the thorn on Holden's side :laugh: Since NEO-NOIR is not a genre per se, we had to find ways to sorta limit the scope and not let people vote for anything like Aladdin or Fast and the Furious.

The "best" way I could think of was to ask for confirmation from at least two sites out of four (IMDb, Letterboxd, Wikipedia, and TMDB), but it was inevitable that some films that aren't necessarily considered as neo-noir would slip through the cracks; be it because they do have neo-noir elements, albeit limited... or because they're genre hybrids... or because someone was "creative" enough to label it as such in some of these sites. That's why, for every entry, I've tried to include legitimate articles and quotes from critics and reviewers that saw *some* neo-noir on every film, because at the end of the day, it's a matter of appreciation. Like I've said before, if experts and film scholars themselves still argue about what is noir, what is neo-noir, we can't expect to fully agree on a film forum either.

Personally, I think we've done as best as we could, and I think that for every shady Neo-noir or Neo-noir "outlier" that we've gotten, we've gotten at least one or two genuine Neo-noirs. I think the list is more balanced than some might think.

SpelingError

04-19-24, 01:56 PM

I remember being mixed on Laura, so it didn't make my ballot, but it might improve with a rewatch.

seanc

04-19-24, 02:08 PM

Personally, I think we've done as best as we could, and I think that for every shady Neo-noir or Neo-noir "outlier" that we've gotten, we've gotten at least one or two genuine Neo-noirs. I think the list is more balanced than some might think.

I agree, the list came out really well. There was never not going to be some wonky stuff with such a hard genre to nail down.

I specifically tried to avoid stuff I just considered crime thrillers. Even having that mindset I have looked sideways at my list a few times the last couple months. It would look much different today, and no doubt again tomorrow, if I started over from scratch.

WHITBISSELL!

04-19-24, 02:13 PM

1 for 1 today (I guess the Top 10 reveals will be single day affairs which makes sense). But I didn't have Laura on my ballot. Didn't really remember it till it was too late. I'm not sure which of my picks I would have jettisoned in favor of it but it's more than worthy of inclusion.

57 of 91 seen so far.

Iroquois

04-19-24, 02:14 PM

no vote. it's good, though.

seanc

04-19-24, 02:24 PM

Looks like I will be at 81/100. Not where I wanted to be, but not terrible either. Plus I have added nicely to my Noir watchlist. Once I get through those, I should be fairly well rounded in the genre. Then I have my whole life to rewatch them all since I will have forgotten the plot of every damn one.

beelzebubble

04-19-24, 02:55 PM

Thursday Next

04-19-24, 02:57 PM

Night of the Hunter was my #20. Memorable characters for sure. And I do like Lillian Gish.

Laura was my #6. Classic. Just what I think of if I think of noir.

There are 2 more from my list that will place in the top ten. One film that was on the near misses: Cast a Dark Shadow . I gave it all 9 of its points and I'm not surprised noone else voted for it. I just liked it.

There's one more film that wasn't on the near misses list but surely won't show up now, so I don't know what's happened to that. It's been run off the road and left in a ditch somewhere by a no-good rival, perhaps.

Holden Pike

04-19-24, 03:01 PM

Laura is a masterpiece, of course, and absolutely worthy of the Top Ten, but I figured it didn't need my help. One I did try and give a boost that did not make it...

98643

The wonderful Jules Dassin placed four films on the countdown, all terrific: Night and the City (#25), Rififi (#42), The Naked City (#60), and Brute Force (#73). I chose a fifth for my ballot, Thieves' Highway (1949). Most Noirs deal with the underworld in some way, criminal enterprises run with fear, intimidation, and even murder. Thieves' Highway takes a look at a very specific and odd one, the produce industry! That may not sound very promising, but corruption can overreach anywhere. Richard Conte (The Big Combo, The Godfather) stars as a returning WWII veteran coming home to Fresno, CA where he learns his immigrant father, who worked as a truck driver, was crippled by a thug of a produce dealer (Lee J. Cobb) up in San Francisco. He vows to get revenge. He hires on with the man who took over his father's truck and off he goes with a load full of apples.

98644

Once he gets to Frisco he sees right away how the little tyrant works. He slashes their tire, he hires a prostitute (Valentina Cortese) to seduce him and keep him out of the way, then unloads the truck without their permission and sets a lower price. He does pay them, but then sends men to roll him for the cash. Cobb's character will do anything to cut corners, cheat, and keep as much money as possible, including sabotaging brakes. But he's messed with the wrong man this time. The corruption and danger emanating from something as seemingly benign as produce and trucking is an unusual treat but as powerful as any nightclub owner or numbers runner. The rest of the supporting cast includes big ol' Jack Oakie, Millard Mitchell, Joseph Pevney, and Morris Carnovsky.

Thieves' Highway was twenty-first on my ballot. A great movie, but my five little points weren't enough to have it join the other Dassin pictures in the Top 100.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
2. The Killers (#22)
3. Too Late for Tears (#81)
4. The Set-Up (#46)
7. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
8. Odd Man Out (#47)
9. Criss Cross (#44)
10. Stray Dog (#32)
11. The Killing (#11)
12. The Big Combo (#52)
13. Phantom Lady (#69)
14. Born to Kill (#84)
15. Pickup on South Street (#21)
16. The Big Heat (#17)
18. He Walked By Night (#88)
19. Fallen Angel (#80)
20. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
21. Thieves’ Highway (DNP)
22. Panic in the Streets (#98)
24. Crossfire (#51)
25. The Crimson Kimono (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW-mpnQmV8A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQH1MXx1g0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBTaE6uNpmk

seanc

04-19-24, 03:03 PM

Thieves Highway was in one of the HOF we did for this list. I enjoyed it quite a bit, and more than most it seemed. Wasn’t strong enough for my list though.

Citizen Rules

04-19-24, 03:15 PM

I was in that HoF too, come to think of it I hosted it:D I liked Thieve's Highway, but most of the members were cool to it and it placed last. I'm surprised more people didn't vote for it, but it's not that well known. It only received one vote from Holden.

I wrote this about it:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.P-GzV92MbCmGEWaJsLQgtAHaFj%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=015f986c5aecb37c729e30a66874d87aa2f65c0d47f7dd314113e1d9dd4f13e5&ipo=images
Thieves' Highway (1949)

Thieves' Highway will be one of the highlights for me in this HoF...an HoF which is packed full of great noirs. I really liked this movie, here's why: The story and settings are interesting. I image some might not care for this as there's no dark rainy alleys, no detectives in trench coats and no long ominous shadows. I found the story of the competitive, cut-throat world of long haul 'wild cat' truckers a fascinating story.

Visually I liked the different shooting locations, the apple orchids, the open road, the wholesale produce market. For me that was a world I wanted to learn about and spend time with.

The other main thing I liked was that that the secondary characters were well written and had more to them than just being place holders so that the next scene could take place. I especially liked the writing of the two truck haulers who at the start of the movie get cut out of an apple hauling deal and scheme to get some of the money back. Later the story propels both of those men to a place where they need to make a decision which then changes their character's actions. I thought Valentina Cortesa was a very believable choice for a woman who slummed around the fruit market. I liked her role and the little things she did when on screen, she was an interesting actress. I liked Richard Conte and of course the great Lee J. Cobb.

John-Connor

04-19-24, 03:21 PM

98646
98647
Laura is a timeless classic also outside of the genre. It has been a while since I’ve seen it but made enough of a lasting impression to land a spot on my list at #22. Also had The Mob at #19 and I Walk Alone at #24.

1. 100%
2. 100%
3. The Narrow Margin (1952)
4. 100%
5. Murder, My Sweet (1944)
6. 100%
7. The Big Heat (1953)
8. Rebecca (1940)
9. Leave Her to Heaven (1945)
10. Bob Le Flambeur (1956)
11. The Breaking Point (1950)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
13. The Killing (1956)
14. Gilda (1946)
15. Notorious (1946)
16. 100%
17. The Wrong Man (1956)
18. Night and the City (1950)
19. The Mob (1951) NM
20. Kansas City Confidential (1952)
21. 100%
22. Laura (1944)
23. The Set-Up (1949)
24. I Walk Alone (1947) NM
25. Kiss of Death (1947)

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/jfijewoZOn2ET2VsSaNoIVXjKM.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/jCXeztl1uZyDzbqhPg8B6Zu4TNg.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/ezt6fb4JbghGKmaMzzuMtxpz0Kb.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/agM0xGwaziQodv405SGOhUTcnKS.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/aUzQZt2UlaurZ3wlhzVXQb6PQk8.jpg

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/hNP8ikn0ixyv1DnsQNJhui9Xfu.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/2MQuJkwOYF9GL85ECKpVAoI5Hjk.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/2ZznfZdYGa8fGi3q9LBtoNRbKkB.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/zwZIOxxp4FuT7uv5SkG75k4eeYn.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/46eKPjoWEyNBAQKDoXEcDFBcaUw.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/xpZ64mUw5akvyWYD1060LAT6ohr.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/lLZ366NsPpcfjWmNFtH0KBtInfb.jpg

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/4nUuKmATbLpECcwzzl1ONwTVoCW.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/yUMQWsEkOZSVC6xg6rl3vRHalAg.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/2RcTYPzsR0QfN5d8g3HjIkIqcbg.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/zoexHMp5Qz5zm4tqkmQBnkkcvOC.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/uxE5LZP0RClXKsAqtrHQPiNLHzf.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/ovAn6MX1Oxs5GUBa3byvKCCYlea.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/qRRXuktpspL3czJrwsrcAcOVX5B.jpg

Thief

04-19-24, 03:27 PM

Thieves Highway was in one of the HOF we did for this list. I enjoyed it quite a bit, and more than most it seemed. Wasn’t strong enough for my list though.

I was in that HoF too, come to think of it I hosted it:D I liked Thieve's Highway, but most of the members were cool to it and it placed last. I'm surprised more people didn't vote for it, but it's not that well known. It only received one vote from Holden.

Yeah, I think I placed it last, but to be fair, that HoF was stacked. I still rated it 3/5, which is good. Here is the bulk of what I wrote:

Like many film noirs, the film does a great job of presenting the insurmountable stakes that our lead seems to be against. Perhaps a representation of the struggles and difficulties that veterans had to face upon returning home, Nick seems to have little chances to win. But he more than makes up for it with determination and guts as he stands up to Figlia.

Nick is also helped by Ed (Millard Mitchell), another driver that took up Nick father's truck, and Rica (Valentina Cortese), a local that Figlia might or might not be using against Nick. Conte is solid in the lead, but it is Cobb who easily shines as Figlia. His character moves seamlessly from fake amiability to sheer unscrupulousness and opportunism.

However, the film's pace is a bit dragged down by Ed's subplot, despite Mitchell's performance being pretty good. I also didn't like how the film handled the subplot with Nick's girlfriend, Polly (Barbara Lawrence) and how Rica serves as the rebound. I don't think the character of Polly was entirely necessary, or on the other hand, the romantic relationship with Rica.

Despite those flaws, the film was enjoyable with some nice twists and solid performances. The exchanges between Nick and Figlia were intense and featured some good dialogue ("your end of nothing is nothing") without it resorting into the stereotypes of antagonists, so I'll give it a fair shake.

Good film.

Harry Lime

04-19-24, 04:32 PM

I had Laura at #22. Great film and a great cast.

3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
7. Notorious (1946)
9. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
10. Stray Dog (1949)
11. Mildred Pierce (1945)
13. Detour (1945)
15. Bob le flambeur (1956)
16. The Killers (1946)
17. Rififi (1955)
18. The Killing (1956)
19. Strangers on a Train (1951)
20. Gilda (1946)
21. Pickup on South Street (1953)
22. Laura (1944)
23. White Heat (1949)
25. Nightmare Alley (1947)

Sedai

04-19-24, 05:39 PM

I included Laura on my list at #11.

A well-known classic! This is an excellent film I have seen several times. Love the sort of haunting aspect of it and it's various quirks and oddities. Not much else to say about it that other folks haven't mentioned already. Just missed my Top 10!

https://lwlies.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/laura-gene-tierney-768x539-c-default.jpg

beelzebubble

04-19-24, 05:46 PM

Laura was my #4. It is greater than the sum of its parts. And its parts are pretty great. Love it. Very re-watchable.

GulfportDoc

04-19-24, 08:49 PM

Laura, done the same year as Double Indemnity, is a wonderfully good mystery noir with a stellar cast. It's famous theme song alone by David Raskin (with Johnny Mercer's lyrics added after the film's popularity) would contribute to its appeal.

It marks Clifton Webb's first foray into films after many years on Broadway. And if you've seen his portrayal of Waldo Lydecker, he plays almost the identical character in every movie he was in afterwards..:)

It did not make my top 25.

PHOENIX74

04-20-24, 12:39 AM

#10 Laura (1944) - I had Laura on my ballot at #24. It got that spot because, although my memory has become a little hazy on the specifics, I remember really enjoying it. At the time I called it a "a romance, suspense, mystery and noir all wrapped up in a finely crafted and well directed product. It's an interesting treatise on masculinity, and even snobbery - seeming to set in it's sights all of the character deficiencies people can have." Adding, in the end, that "the movie makes us feel glad to be humble, and realistic." I love seeing the likes of Vincent Price at a young enough age not to have been typecast yet - there are so many actors in these old film noir classics that I know but have never seen in such fine, spritely condition. How do I describe Gene Tierney? Va va voom I guess. Anyway, that's spots 10 to 25 all taken (looks like I might get a full house with this countdown) along with spot 4.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 29/91
I'd never even heard of : 47/91
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 15/91
Films from my list : 17

#10 - My #24 - Laura (1944)
#11 - My #13 - The Killing (1956)
#13 - My #4 - Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
#14 - My #10 - The Night of the Hunter (1955)
#16 - My #15 - The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
#21 - My #17 - Pickup on South Street (1953)
#24 - My #20 - Detour (1945)
#27 - My #14 - Gilda (1946)
#28 - My #11 - Murder, My Sweet (1944)
#31 - My #25 - The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
#33 - My #22 - Nightmare Alley (1947)
#36 - My #16 - Gun Crazy (1950)
#44 - My #19 - Criss Cross (1949)
#54 - My #12 - D.O.A. (1950)
#58 - My #23 - The Breaking Point (1950)
#61 - My #21 - Act of Violence (1949)
#67 - My #18 - The Hitch-Hiker (1953)

stillmellow

04-20-24, 01:34 AM

dadgumblah

04-20-24, 03:13 AM

John-Connor, I watched I Walk Alone after the Countdown began and I really liked it. Who can resist Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas teamed up? But throw in Lizabeth Scott (yes, please!) and a near scene-stealing Wendell Corey, and my favorite hulking brute Mike Mazurki and you've got yourself a winner. There's another film I'm hoping will make the countdown (not because it's on my list---it isn't) with Burt. In that one he loses his temper a bit, but in this one, he's angry all the time, raging at KIrk, which makes for an awesome time. Nice to see you included it!

I'll be one of the odd ones and admit that Laura is not one of my favorite Noirs. There's just something about it that left me cold. I loved everybody in it, the style, the look, the direction but at the end of the day, it's just a movie I don't feel like revisiting much. I'm sure I will but I've got loads of others ahead of it. Still, I knew it would make it and I know it belongs here, or on any proper Noir list.

#1 The Killing List Proper #11
#2 The Asphalt Jungle List Proper #16
#3
#4 The Big Combo List Proper #52
#5 Pickup on South Street List Proper #23
#6 Kansas City Confidential List Proper #53
#7
#8 While the City Sleeps NM
#9 Lady in the Lake NM
#10 The Big Heat List Proper #17
#11 Kiss Me Deadly List Proper #13
#12 The Postman Always Rings Twice List Proper #23
#13 Murder, My Sweet List Proper #28
#14 Kiss of Death List Proper #59
#15 He Walked By Night List Proper #88
#16 The Naked City List Proper #60
#17 The Killers List Proper #22
#18 Detour List Proper #24
#19 The Glass Key NM
#20 Gun Crazy List Proper #36
#21 Impact NM
#22 This Gun For Hire List Proper #78
#23 The Narrow Margin List Proper #43
#24 Pitfall NM
#25 Crossfire List Proper #51

John-Connor

04-20-24, 09:17 AM

cricket

04-20-24, 10:22 AM

The only thing I remember about Laura is my disappointment. It's been a long time and I'd like to see it again.

Hey Fredrick

04-20-24, 11:00 AM

Since my last post three more from my ballot showed up
Ace in the Hole was my number 13.
Strangers on a Train was my number 4 and is my 2nd favorite Hitchcock film.
The Killing was my number 3. I never really think about who my favorite directors are but doing these countdowns one thing almost all my ballots have in common is a Kubrick film in the top 5.

mrblond

04-20-24, 11:15 AM

In preparation for the countdown, I've only met Gilda and couldn't find Laura. Anyway, I still look for her. :shifty:

honeykid

04-20-24, 11:52 AM

Am I still the least total viewed, with 24 out of 88 seen? Just curious.

I'm less than that. I think I'm at 16? There's a couple I'm fuzzy on.
I'm more than that now, that was just from when I read that. I think I'm on 21 now.

I didn’t like The Killing first round, but I hope to next time. Every time I see still of it I think, “I gotta love this”. Kubrick is a mixed bag for me, and mofo doesn’t help my opinion because they worship at the altar. Case in point, The Killing top fifteen in anything.

You can always sit next to me. :)

In preparation for the countdown, I've only met Gilda and couldn't found Laura. Anyway, I still look for her. :shifty:

Oh, you must find Laura, Mr Blond. She's even more beautiful than Gilda.

I left it too long to return to Mofo and now I'm having to catch up on too much. We're at the business end now and, as someone who doesn't care for Noir, this is where I expected most of mine to turn up and they're starting to. I had The Asphalt Jungle at #9, Mildred Pierce was #4, Shadow Of A Doubt was #6 and Laura at #7.

Citizen Rules

04-20-24, 12:04 PM

Thursday Next

04-20-24, 12:08 PM

My #1!

John W Constantine

04-20-24, 12:18 PM

Forgot about that one.

Sedai

04-20-24, 12:24 PM

I somehow haven't seen The Sweet Smell of Success. Must rectify soon!

seanc

04-20-24, 01:52 PM

SSOS was my 9. Watched it a couple times now and it’s fantastic in every way. I didn’t think through what the top ten would be much, but I was surprised that as we got closer it eas here. Wasn’t expecting it quite this high. Very cool.

Iroquois

04-20-24, 02:06 PM

seen it once, liked it well enough, have always meant to go back to confirm it's truly great. that one guy from diner couldn't stop quoting it for a reason.

Harry Lime

04-20-24, 02:36 PM

A unique noir in the cannon, I had Sweet Smell of Success at #8, with its masterful dual performances by Curtis and Lancaster, and a screenplay that hits like it's some sort of peak for its time and location, at least from what I know based on what I've seen in the movies, and you just go along for the ride.

3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
7. Notorious (1946)
8. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
9. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
10. Stray Dog (1949)
11. Mildred Pierce (1945)
13. Detour (1945)
15. Bob le flambeur (1956)
16. The Killers (1946)
17. Rififi (1955)
18. The Killing (1956)
19. Strangers on a Train (1951)
20. Gilda (1946)
21. Pickup on South Street (1953)
22. Laura (1944)
23. White Heat (1949)
25. Nightmare Alley (1947)

WHITBISSELL!

04-20-24, 02:50 PM

I have watched The Sweet Smell of Success but just like Laura it didn't make my ballot. I thought Laura was pretty good but after all the praise I'd read it didn't end up completely bewitching me like I thought it would. Don't get me wrong. I didn't hate it and it didn't disappoint me. It just didn't scale the heights as it were. I don't know exactly why I failed to connect with it satisfactorily.

Sweet Smell of Success however was one of the darkest and most cynical black and white movies I'd ever seen. Two years previously director Alexander Mackendrick had turned out The Ladykillers, a hilarious and gratifyingly dark comedy that only hinted at the misanthropy on display in SSoS. Just about every major character doesn't so much speak as spit acid. A lot of noir films set in NYC are cautionary tales portraying it as a potentially dangerous and treacherous place to visit. The denizens of SSoS have set up shop and made themselves at home. It's exclusion from my list was more a carefully weighed move while Laura's was regrettably easier.

58 of 92 seen so far.

stillmellow

04-20-24, 02:57 PM

98657
#9 Sweet Smell of Success (1957)

Director: Alexander Mackendrick
Cast: Burt Lancaster, Tony Curtis, Susan Harrison
466 Points, 31 Lists

'Powerful but unethical Broadway columnist J.J. Hunsecker coerces unscrupulous press agent Sidney Falco into breaking up his sister's romance with a jazz musician.'

_______________________________________

My number 16.The seediest of the seedy! Listening to the two main characters talk for 5 minutes makes me want to take a shower. In a good way. And they tear apart others in such an educated, sharp witted way.

Allaby

04-20-24, 03:17 PM

Sweet Smell of Success is fantastic and made my ballot at number 18.

Seen: 91/92

Kaplan

04-20-24, 04:07 PM

The Sweet Smell of Success starts with a fantastic script with dialogue as good as you'll find in any movie from that decade, and then you get two perfect performances by Tony Curtis and Burt Lancaster. I had it at #14. And Laura was my #9.

My List:
6. Pickup on South Street (#21)
7. Stray Dog (#32)
8. The Killing (#11)
9. Laura (#10)
10. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
11. Where the Sidewalk Ends (#66)
13. The Big Heat (#17)
14. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
15. Elevator to the Gallows (#41)
17. Ace in the Hole (#19)
18. Gilda (#27)
19. Mildred Pierce (#15)
20. This Gun for Hire (#78)
21. The Postman Always Rings Twice (#23)
22. The Wrong Man (#39)
23. The Set-Up (#46)
24. Scarlet Street (#29)
25. Gun Crazy (#36)

Citizen Rules

04-20-24, 05:16 PM

Yahoo! Sweet Smell of Success is one of my favorite movies and was #1 on my ballot. I've seen it several time and wrote two reviews on it that I just combined into one which I posted below. Sorry this is long but it's worth it....at least I think so🙂

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=48297&stc=1&d=1537658555
Sweet Smell of Success (1957)

I love this film! The dialogue snaps and sparkles with clever-tudes. Every word spoken either drives the plot forward or expands the characters and their story. The dialogue is fast paced, yet nothing is superfluous. Every word has it's place. Every action, every scene is designed to fill in the details. The film's razor sharp dialogue is a trademark of screenwriter Clifford Ordets. In Sweet Smell of Success words are weapons...One well placed remark, one turn of the screw and someone is elevated to high places...or burnt to the ground.

The film is powered by two fine actors both at odds with each other and yet both similar in their utter lack of morals. As the story unfolds we're swept up in this amazing world of power, greed, ballyhoo and empty promises.

Burt Lancaster is J.J. Hunsecker, the power driven columnist. He's cold, cruel, intelligent and full of self importance. Lancaster really brings this role to life...J.J. Hunsecker was patterned after real life newspaper columnist Walter Winchell, a man reportedly as notorious as the fictional Hunsecker.

"Walter Winchell was so obsessive about his daughter's love life that he had her institutionalized as being emotionally unstable, and with the help of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover had forced her lover to leave the country."

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=48298&stc=1&d=1537658561

But it's Tony Curtis who gives new meaning to dimension in his portrayal of a sleazy operator who calls himself a publicity agent. He's a man who wears many faces and can work every angle. I can't image a better actor for this role than Curtis. Despite how low his character goes and what he's willing to do to the people around him....he maintains a charming facade. Curtis infuses his character with just enough charm with that 'ice cream face' of his, that just maybe one day he'll wise up and stop allowing his all consuming greed to drag him down to the gutter...Then again this is noir, sophisticated, but a noir none the less...and like any good noir the 'heavy' might have a touch of humanity residing in him somewhere but not enough to save him from himself.

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=48296&stc=1&d=1537658547

The cinematography of legendary James Wong Howe is critical to the film...So many movies use tight shots of the actors, as it's economical to shoot with a telephoto lens. But bless James Wong Howe! He uses mid to wide angle lenses out on the actual streets of NYC and in that way he captures a realistic feel of night life and raw power that flows from the streets into the veins of men like Sidney Falco and J.J. Hunsecker.

I've seen only a few films that I would deem flawless.
The Sweet Smell of Success is one of them.
rating_5

SpelingError

04-20-24, 06:00 PM

Sweet Smell of Success was #23 on my ballot. Here's what I wrote on it for a HoF:

Sweet Smell of Success (1957) - 4

Film noirs usually don't dip into favorite territory for me and this film wasn't an exception to that, but I do enjoy it quite a bit and it held up well when I rewatched it.

Interestingly enough though, it barely qualifies as a noir. Noir isn't an easily defined genre and a number of definitions of the term exist, but an integral plot point which remains consistent throughout the genre is that the film in question needs to involve a clear and identifiable crime. While some of the characters in this film have corrupt morals, they operate within the law throughout much of the film and a major crime isn't introduced until about an hour or so in. It's in this way, by refusing to define a major crime till the final act, that Sweet Smell of Success redefines the rules of the genre.

I think noirs are reliant on the quality of their dialogue more than all other genres and Sweet Smell of Success doesn't disappoint on that front. In terms of classic noirs, it doesn't quite have my favorite dialogue (I'd give that designation to Out of the Past), but it still comes with plenty to enjoy. The script is packed with a handful of well-placed and biting remarks which add stakes to the less dramatic moments in the first couple acts, ensuring that you remain engaged all throughout the film. I appreciated the dialogue when I first watched this film and I found more to like about the script with my second viewing.

Tony Curtis does a great job as Sidney Falco, a press agent determined to break apart the romance between Steve and Susan. He's willing to do anything to accomplish the task, including spreading lies about Steve and betraying his friends. Burt Lancaster does a similarly great job as J.J. Hunsecker, a major media kingpin who's unscrupulous, vindictive, and just as bad as Falco, if not worse. Steve and Susan act as contrasts to the two of them as they're both good people, albeit powerless against them. The conflict amongst the four of them resides on a fairly low stakes level of intensity in the first couple acts before spiraling out of control in the final act. By way of the complex characters and the aforementioned dialogue, I think the film attempts to add stakes to the first couple acts, but this choice didn't always work for me. Pretending that the first couple acts had higher stakes than they actually did was (occasionally) disconcerting. This blend eventually came together though in the final act.

Overall, I'm glad I got to rewatch this film as my memory of it from a few years ago was pretty poor. Again, I wouldn't say this film dips into favorite territory for me, but I did enjoy it quite a bit and I can see myself watching it again down the road.

SpelingError

04-20-24, 06:01 PM

5) Night and the City
6. The Killing
7) The Night of the Hunter
8) White Heat
9) Detour
12) Shadow of a Doubt
13) Ace in the Hole
14) Gun Crazy
16) The Postman Always Rings Twice
18) The Stranger
19) Odd Man Out
21) Mildred Pierce
22) The Lost Weekend
23) Sweet Smell of Success
24) Crossfire

cricket

04-20-24, 06:50 PM

Sweet Smell is a good one, just missed my ballot

GulfportDoc

04-20-24, 08:02 PM

Sweet Smell of Success (1957)

Despite containing no murder or even any crime, Sweet Smell of Success has plenty of noir credentials from its display of sleaze, tension, mood, and darkness. All the locations are in the general Times Square area of New York which provide a suffocating and intimidating atmosphere in which to ply this tale of double dealing, deceit, and one man’s almost incestuous determination to control the life of his sister.

Starring Burt Lancaster, Tony Curtis, Susan Harrison and Martin Milner, it tells the story of a highly influential but unscrupulous popular New York newspaper columnist (modeled on Walter Winchell) who is determined to break up his sister’s (Harrison) relationship with a jazz musician (Milner) whom the columnist deems beneath her standing. The media kingpin (Lancaster) enlists a shady press agent (Curtis) to frame the jazz musician as a dope user in order to quell the relationship with the sister. The story continues replete with subplots and double dealing, leading to a satisfactory ending.

The two chief standouts in the picture are the impressive photography by the great James Wong Howe, and the memorable against type performance by Tony Curtis. Howe was a natural fit for noir filming due to his penchant for dramatic low key shadow lighting, and his ability to frame New York’s Times Square area as threatening and foreboding. Cutis had been known for his roles capitalizing on his good looks. But he campaigned for the part of the sleazy press agent in order to show that he could be a serious actor. He was under contract to Universal, who was reluctant to loan him out in case the part would ruin his reputation, but in the end United Artists won out. Curtis’ impressive performance really cemented his value as a fine actor. In fact Lancaster himself stated that Curtis should have won the Oscar for his performance.

The original script was written by author Ernest Lehman from his novelette, but later Clifford Odets, known for his flare for dramatic writing, was hired to further develop the screen play after Lehman became ill. The impressive jazzy score was composed by Elmer Bernstein, which perfectly framed contemporary New York City.

It’s a landmark picture that has steadily grown in status during the years since its release.

I have it at #19 on my list.

Thief

04-20-24, 08:20 PM

Sweet Smell of Success is a freakin' masterpiece. I saw it for the first time back in 2020 and it blew my mind. Lancaster and Curtis are so good against type, and the story is so bleak and depressing that I can't help but love it. I had it at #3.

SEEN: 32/92
MY BALLOT: 17/25

1.
2.
3. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
4.
5.
6. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
7.
8.
9. Ace in the Hole (#19)
10. Gilda (#27)
11. Criss Cross (#44)
12. Notorious (#20)
13. Laura (#10)
14. Detour (#24)
15. Mildred Pierce (#15)
16.
17. The Narrow Margin (#43)
18. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
19.
20. Gun Crazy (#36)
21. The Hitch-Hiker (#67)
22. The Killing (#11)
23. The Woman in the Window (#65)
24. D.O.A. (#54)
25. Kansas City Confidential (#53)

Citizen Rules

04-20-24, 08:49 PM

Hint for tomorrow...He's back!

Thief

04-20-24, 09:10 PM

Hint for tomorrow...He's back!

Bogey's back, In a Lonely Place

Holden Pike

04-20-24, 09:34 PM

98661

Sweet Smell of Success was #26 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1950s.

Holden Pike

04-20-24, 09:37 PM

Bogey's back, In a Lonely Place
Or Orson Welles. Or Billy Wilder. Or Robert Mitchum.

I mean at this point "he's back" could refer to multiple actors or directors.

dadgumblah

04-20-24, 10:05 PM

Sweet Smell of Success is the Lancaster film I was referring to when I mentioned there was one where Burt barely contains his anger, where as in I Walk Alone, he lets it all out. Here's a review I wrote about recently in the Noirvember thread:

Despite hearing of its greatness for decades, I've only just now watched this excellent film and it certainly earned all the accolades given it. Although Burt Lancaster receives top billing as J.J. Hunsecker, the ruthless Manhattan columnist who can make or break the careers of most anyone, it's Tony Curtis as press agent Sidney Falco who is in motion throughout most every scene, trying to please J.J. by doing dirty work for him. And all just to get a favorable mention in J.J.'s column so it can boost Sidney's career. But recently Sidney has been shut out of J.J.'s column because Sidney is moving a bit slow in breaking up the romance between J.J.'s sister, Susan (Susan Harrison) and a jazz guitarist, Steve Dallas (Martin Milner).

It's hard to tell who is more sleazy of the two, because they both do whatever they can to destroy people who stand in their way, or those they just don't like. Steve is really a decent guy but Sidney knows Steve has a temper when confronted by him, and later uses that to bait him into lashing out against J.J. in front of Susan. Susan is weak-willed where her brother is concerned, and both Sidney and J.J. know it. It's heartbreaking to see how these men are so sharp as to pick up on things they can use against people for power. Lancaster is pretty scary when, as a Senator "friend" says, "Why does everything you say sound like a threat?" And it does. There's also a scene where J.J. gets angry when he sees someone "touching" his sister (although it's not what he thinks) and advances on them with fury in his eyes. Very frightening.

Still, Curtis, as Sidney, can wriggle in and out of seemingly any situation, for example using info he's got to give to someone else as leverage to get his way, but only if a female "friend" of his sleeps with the person he's giving the info to. You've got to really stay focused to keep up with who's threatening who and for what reason. And Curtis is the one either threatening or promising things we're not sure he can deliver. And he's always on the phone, getting in touch with a contact that will benefit him or destroy someone else. Maybe both at the same time.

The black & white cinematography by the legendary James Wong Howe is super, capturing the hustle and bustle of Times Square, among other famous New York spots, with clarity even in the mostly dark scenes. He makes New York a major character in the movie. The jazzy score by Elmer Bernstein is another winner in his long list of triumphs. The screenplay by Clifford Odets and Ernest Lehman is sharp and snappy, moving the action along at a lightning-paced clip.

A classic film and very deserving of that status. It is such a dark film that it earns its Noir genre ranking very easily. Even with that, it's a vastly entertaining film.

5

Yes, watched only after the Countdown had began. If I had gotten to it, it would have definitely been Top 5 for me. Brilliant movie.

#1 The Killing List Proper #11
#2 The Asphalt Jungle List Proper #16
#3
#4 The Big Combo List Proper #52
#5 Pickup on South Street List Proper #23
#6 Kansas City Confidential List Proper #53
#7
#8 While the City Sleeps NM
#9 Lady in the Lake NM
#10 The Big Heat List Proper #17
#11 Kiss Me Deadly List Proper #13
#12 The Postman Always Rings Twice List Proper #23
#13 Murder, My Sweet List Proper #28
#14 Kiss of Death List Proper #59
#15 He Walked By Night List Proper #88
#16 The Naked City List Proper #60
#17 The Killers List Proper #22
#18 Detour List Proper #24
#19 The Glass Key NM
#20 Gun Crazy List Proper #36
#21 Impact NM
#22 This Gun For Hire List Proper #78
#23 The Narrow Margin List Proper #43
#24 Pitfall NM
#25 Crossfire List Proper #51

PHOENIX74

04-21-24, 01:15 AM

#9 Sweet Smell of Success - I was introduced to Sweet Smell of Success by Citizen Rules during a Hall of Fame quite a while back, and it's one of the best films I've ever suddenly been confronted by without even knowing of it's existence beforehand. I think it's the best film I've ever seen Tony Curtis in, and Burt Lancaster is fantastic - along with all the supporting players. I'd never heard of Walter Winchell before either (Lancaster's character is based on him), but boy does he sound like one of the heel's of the century. A slimy gossip columnist who traded favours for publicity - which is where the narrative of this film comes from. The dialogue is so snappy and fabulous, and the use of actual New York streets a great choice to go with. Alexander Mackendrick had no problem at all adapting himself to American sensibilities after directing the likes of The Ladykillers at Ealing. I love, love, love, love, love this movie - the second time watching it was just as good as the first. I had it at #9 - exactly the same as the countdown has it. The reason it isn't #1 is that this field is full of incredibly great films.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 30/92
I'd never even heard of : 47/92
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 15/92
Films from my list : 18

#9 - My #9 - Sweet Smell of Success
#10 - My #24 - Laura (1944)
#11 - My #13 - The Killing (1956)
#13 - My #4 - Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
#14 - My #10 - The Night of the Hunter (1955)
#16 - My #15 - The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
#21 - My #17 - Pickup on South Street (1953)
#24 - My #20 - Detour (1945)
#27 - My #14 - Gilda (1946)
#28 - My #11 - Murder, My Sweet (1944)
#31 - My #25 - The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
#33 - My #22 - Nightmare Alley (1947)
#36 - My #16 - Gun Crazy (1950)
#44 - My #19 - Criss Cross (1949)
#54 - My #12 - D.O.A. (1950)
#58 - My #23 - The Breaking Point (1950)
#61 - My #21 - Act of Violence (1949)
#67 - My #18 - The Hitch-Hiker (1953)

Citizen Rules

04-21-24, 12:20 PM

98662
#8 The Big Sleep (1946)

Director: Howard Hawks
Production: Warner Bros
Cast: Humphrey Bogart, Lauren Bacall, John Ridgely, Martha Vickers
468 Points, 35 Lists

'Private detective Philip Marlowe is hired by a wealthy family. Before the complex case is over, he's seen murder, blackmail and what might be love.'

_______________________________________

Thief

04-21-24, 12:23 PM

Wow, surprised that one came before In a Lonely Place. I would've guessed this one would crack the Top 5.

Allaby

04-21-24, 12:24 PM

The Big Sleep is an all time favourite of mine. It's really entertaining and Bogart is fantastic in it. It was number 3 on my ballot.

Seen: 92/93

Thief

04-21-24, 12:26 PM

Love The Big Sleep, although I would say it's due for a rewatch. Haven't seen it in 10-ish years, but I do love Bogey and Bacall in it. Great dialogue, as expected and a pretty cool story. I also had it at #8.

SEEN: 33/93
MY BALLOT: 18/25

1.
2.
3. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
4.
5.
6. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
7.
8. The Big Sleep (#8)
9. Ace in the Hole (#19)
10. Gilda (#27)
11. Criss Cross (#44)
12. Notorious (#20)
13. Laura (#10)
14. Detour (#24)
15. Mildred Pierce (#15)
16.
17. The Narrow Margin (#43)
18. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
19.
20. Gun Crazy (#36)
21. The Hitch-Hiker (#67)
22. The Killing (#11)
23. The Woman in the Window (#65)
24. D.O.A. (#54)
25. Kansas City Confidential (#53)

Citizen Rules

04-21-24, 12:34 PM

I liked The Big Sleep and as much as I like Bogie and Bacall, Martha Vickers stole the show, I wish they hadn't cut most of her screen time to give Lauren Bacall a bigger build up. I don't think Bacall really shines here like she did in To Have and Have Not. Not on my ballot but The Big Sleep deserves a place on the countdown.

Holden Pike

04-21-24, 12:35 PM

98664

The Big Sleep was #22 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1940s.

Holden Pike

04-21-24, 12:40 PM

I liked The Big Sleep and as much as I like Bogie and Bacall, Martha Vickers stole the show, I wish they hadn't cut most of her screen time to give Lauren Bacall a bigger build up.
Incorrect. Dorothy Malone has one of the greatest movie-stealing scenes in cinema history. Would have loved for Bogie to return the money, abandoned the case, and spend seventy more minutes in this bookstore...

https://youtu.be/22I8-g91kEQ?si=ZhIrzm_vjjEsCvqA

Citizen Rules

04-21-24, 12:45 PM

Incorrect. Dorothy Malone has one of the greatest movie-stealing scenes in cinema history. Would have loved for Bogie to return the money, abandoned the case, and spend seventy more minutes in this bookstore...
Nah, that's incorrect. Dorothy Malone was good but it was Martha Vickers who stole the show in The Big Sleep. Don't take my word for it, take Raymond Chandler's word.
Raymond Chandler claimed that Martha Vickers gave such an intense performance as Carmen Sternwood that she completely overshadowed Lauren Bacall, and that much of Vickers' performance ended up on the cutting room floor as a result.

Harry Lime

04-21-24, 01:07 PM

Lots of twists and turns in this classic Hawks & Bogie & Bacall film noir. It's a great example of the genre. I had it at #14.

3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
7. Notorious (1946)
8. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
9. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
10. Stray Dog (1949)
11. Mildred Pierce (1945)
13. Detour (1945)
14. The Big Sleep (1946)
15. Bob le flambeur (1956)
16. The Killers (1946)
17. Rififi (1955)
18. The Killing (1956)
19. Strangers on a Train (1951)
20. Gilda (1946)
21. Pickup on South Street (1953)
22. Laura (1944)
23. White Heat (1949)
25. Nightmare Alley (1947)

CosmicRunaway

04-21-24, 01:50 PM

I actually haven't seen Sweet Smell of Success. Perhaps I should add it to my watchlist. I have however seen The Big Sleep, and it was on my list at #14. I could've sworn I wrote something for it for a Hall of Fame once, but I guess not. Maybe I'm confusing it with something else. I mean, without looking I'm willing to bet it probably won an early one, and was thus unable to be nominated in any of the HoFs that have been held since I joined.

Seen: 40/93

My List: 19
01. Laura (1944) - #10
02.
03. Stranger on the Third Floor (1940) - #92
04. Murder My Sweet (1944) - #28
05. Shadow of a Doubt (1943) - #12
06. Detour (1945) - #24
07. Rebecca (1940) - #35
08. Ministry of Fear (1944) - #75
09. The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (1946) - #40
10.
11. This Gun for Hire (1942) - #78
12. Mildred Pierce (1945) - #15
13. Odd Man Out (1947) - #47
14. The Big Sleep (1946) - #8
15. Strangers on a Train (1951) - #18
16.
17. The Asphalt Jungle (1950) - #16
18. Night and the City (1950) - #25
19. Phantom Lady (1944) - #69
20. The Hidden Room/Obsession (1949) - DNP
21.
22. The Killing (1956) - #11
23.
24. Kiss Me Deadly (1955) - #14
25. The Stranger (1946) - #38

https://64.media.tumblr.com/08e04d524fa468e86b83a01f7166b2d1/7f78460e1bcbbcb8-5d/s540x810/57694c15b11bf87f3d1c8c574ab9604aac9ad54b.gifv

cricket

04-21-24, 02:09 PM

2. Scarlet Street (#29)
3. Rififi (#42)
4. Mildred Pierce (#15)
6. The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (#40)
7. Body and Soul (#94)
10. Key Largo (#26)
11. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (#13)
13. Detective Story (#57)
14. The Killers (#22)
15. Force of Evil (#85)
16 Ride the Pink Horse (#45)
18. The Big Sleep (#8)
19. Nightmare Alley (#33)
20. The Blue Dahlia (#74)
21. The Lady from Shanghai (#31)
22. Gilda (#27)
23. The Stranger (#38)
24. Drunken Angel (#70)
25. The Letter (#72)

Sedai

04-21-24, 02:21 PM

Well dang. Color me surprised that today's reveal was The Big Sleep - I thought it would be Top 5. As far as number of viewings, The Big Sleep is way up there for me. It has also popped on and off my Top 10 favorites of all time here on MoFo several times over the years. Does the film's plot make sense? Probably not, but every scene is just a classic sequence, chock full of quirky and fun dialogue. Lash Canino is an excellent heavy, and I love some of the lines Bogie tosses out when talking about him.

"You know what he'll do when he comes back? Beat my teeth out, then kick me in the stomach for mumbling..."

Great stuff. I love the little break in the store with the dame and rye whiskey, all the wonderful sets and locations, and everything just dripping in noir style. I had The Big Sleep at #3.

https://scenebygreen.files.wordpress.com/2022/10/videoscreenshot-file97gkbx0caou5-vidcloud-2026.jpg?w=989

https://scenebygreen.files.wordpress.com/2022/10/videoscreenshot-file97gkbx0caou5-vidcloud-8104.jpg?w=989

https://44.media.tumblr.com/cbbba1658523cea02b17a7f195b7097f/tumblr_oof44vSgBC1qdm4tlo1_500.gif

stillmellow

04-21-24, 02:26 PM

The Big Sleep is my #14. A bit incomprehensible, given that so many aspects of it had to be sidestepped due to the code (nudity, pornography, homosexuality), and that scenes explaining things were cut to give Bacall more screen time, but the film is definitely better served by the romantic scenes between Bogie and Bacall.

Fantastic movie, and one of the most memorable endings in Noir.

SpelingError

04-21-24, 02:41 PM

The Big Sleep made the tail end of my ballot at #25. It might've made it higher had I rewatched it, but my memory of it was just good enough for it to squeeze in at the end.

SpelingError

04-21-24, 02:41 PM

Citizen Rules

04-21-24, 03:32 PM

... I could've sworn I wrote something for it for a Hall of Fame once, but I guess not. Maybe I'm confusing it with something else. I mean, without looking I'm willing to bet it probably won an early one, and was thus unable to be nominated in any of the HoFs that have been held since I joined..
Yup you're right that The Big Sleep won the Film Noir Part 2 HoF (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=46081) back in 2016 so was never in an HoF that you had joined.

Citizen Rules

04-21-24, 03:38 PM

Some background about the two versions of The Big Sleep. This is from what I wrote in the Film Noir Part 2 HoF.

The 1946 theatrical release of The Big Sleep is the version most people watch. It was shot in 1944 during WWII and just as the film was being finished, the war was coming to an end. Warner Brothers Studio had a lot of war themed movies in the pipeline and wanted to get those out before they became passe. So The Big Sleep was put on the shelf and it's release held.

Meanwhile Lauren Bacall who had shot to stardom in her first film,To Have and Have Not, had her second film released Confidential Agent which critics hated her in. They had considered her a major talent, but after Confidential Agent, they questioned even if she could act at all...and her future as an actresses was in serious doubt.

Seeing how The Big Sleep was in limbo, Jack Warner ordered additional scenes to be shot of Bacall that would allow her to shine with her sexual innuendos and insolence that had made her a star in To Have and Have Not. Thus the original 1945 film was never released but a reworked film came out in 1946, which was a huge success and so was Lauren Bacall who went on to have a long film career.

Holden Pike

04-21-24, 03:39 PM

https://youtu.be/itf0NDol7q4?si=Z-Kbn7dZlBDaJCy_
https://youtu.be/7zO7ZYQNvq8?si=w0rbfYxXUMLdk5I6

Kaplan

04-21-24, 05:00 PM

It was a classic film noir I had to include. The Big Sleep was my #16. I'm rather surprised Altman's version of Chandler's The Long Goodbye will end up placing higher on the neo-noir countadown than The Big Sleep did on this countdown.

My List:
6. Pickup on South Street (#21)
7. Stray Dog (#32)
8. The Killing (#11)
9. Laura (#10)
10. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
11. Where the Sidewalk Ends (#66)
13. The Big Heat (#17)
14. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
15. Elevator to the Gallows (#41)
16. The Big Sleep (#8)
17. Ace in the Hole (#19)
18. Gilda (#27)
19. Mildred Pierce (#15)
20. This Gun for Hire (#78)
21. The Postman Always Rings Twice (#23)
22. The Wrong Man (#39)
23. The Set-Up (#46)
24. Scarlet Street (#29)
25. Gun Crazy (#36)

WHITBISSELL!

04-21-24, 07:03 PM

1 for 1 today. I liked The Big Sleep but haven't revisited it in awhile. Watching that bookstore scene Holden posted makes me want to find it and re-watch it. It was my #23 pick. 5 spots to be filled and I feel pretty good about 4 of them.

I checked out The Big Combo about a week ago and I watched Notorious last night (both :up:). But I still have a lot of noir film viewing in my future. :highfive:

59 of 93 seen so far.

Sedai

04-21-24, 07:35 PM

I am supposed to be catching up on many of these noirs I haven't seen yet, but instead, I found myself watching Siodmak's The Killers again yesterday. Yea, I probably should have put that one a few slots higher on my ballot. ;)

GulfportDoc

04-21-24, 08:51 PM

I absolutely love The Big Sleep. I've seen it many times, and I still watch it occasionally. Despite that, IMO the picture is a little light-hearted for a sinister and cynical noir, so I chose another Chandler for my list.

I'd seen TBS years before, but when I lived in Hollywood in the '70s/'80s I read all of Chandler's novels, the first of which was TBS. I walked by the Cahuenga Building frequently, where Marlowe had his office; and I was able to imagine much of the settings and moods of the Marlowe novels.

There is so much written about TBS, but my favorite is when they were shooting the scene where the police were dredging up the limousine out of the bay, director Hawks called Chandler to ask who had killed the chauffeur (Owen Taylor - Sternwood's driver), Chandler replied that he didn't know!..:) IMO Taylor committed suicide when he was rebuffed by Carmen Sternwood.

Two actors who left an impression on me were cowboy star Bob Steele playing the sarcastic deadly Lash Canino, one of Eddie Mars' henchmen, who kills the Elisha Cook, Jr. character. Steele had the perfect '40s bad guy voice.

The other was the smoldering Dorothy Malone, who played the bookstore clerk across the street from Geiger's bookstore. Her cameo part almost was sexier than Lauren Bacall's!

The picture is very confusing with only one viewing. Re-watches help, but reading the book clears it all up.

Iroquois

04-21-24, 11:02 PM

well, what do you know. it was #8 on my ballot. like i said about memento and neo-noir, this is easily one of the first films to come to mind when you process the phrase "film noir".

dadgumblah

04-21-24, 11:53 PM

Incorrect. Dorothy Malone has one of the greatest movie-stealing scenes in cinema history. Would have loved for Bogie to return the money, abandoned the case, and spend seventy more minutes in this bookstore...

https://youtu.be/22I8-g91kEQ?si=ZhIrzm_vjjEsCvqA

Yes! When I first saw this years and years ago, I couldn't believe this was the same Dorothy Malone who would end up guest-starring on TV shows like Vega$ and The Hardy Boys. In The Big Sleep she was sex on a stick! I wanted more of her also. Martha Vickers was a kitten also. Voom. This movie had all kinds of babes planted everywhere. But yes, Bogie and Bacall were the flavor of the day so what can you do? I loved The Big Sleep for the reason a lot of people did---it was lots of fun. The lighter attitude didn't bother me at all. It was just a whole Noir ball of wax that happened to work. I was laughing at the video that Holden Pike posted where Eddie Muller talks about Raymond Chandler being responsible for all those story titles with "The Big" in them. I've done that for fun, combining Noir film titles, always using "The Big" and mixing-and-matching. Like say, "The Big, Long..." ooh, I'd better stop there. Also, who knew that Mason Reese was connected, however slightly, to Film Noir? Small World.

#1 The Killing List Proper #11
#2 The Asphalt Jungle List Proper #16
#3
#4 The Big Combo List Proper #52
#5 Pickup on South Street List Proper #23
#6 Kansas City Confidential List Proper #53
#7 The Big Sleep List Proper #8
#8 While the City Sleeps NM
#9 Lady in the Lake NM
#10 The Big Heat List Proper #17
#11 Kiss Me Deadly List Proper #13
#12 The Postman Always Rings Twice List Proper #23
#13 Murder, My Sweet List Proper #28
#14 Kiss of Death List Proper #59
#15 He Walked By Night List Proper #88
#16 The Naked City List Proper #60
#17 The Killers List Proper #22
#18 Detour List Proper #24
#19 The Glass Key NM
#20 Gun Crazy List Proper #36
#21 Impact NM
#22 This Gun For Hire List Proper #78
#23 The Narrow Margin List Proper #43
#24 Pitfall NM
#25 Crossfire List Proper #51

Holden Pike

04-22-24, 12:54 AM

Another one of my Classic Noir no-shows…

98669

Black Angel (1946) is Cornell Woolrich piece. Woolrich is best known for the Hitchcock classic Rear Window but he had many stories adapted into films, including Phantom Lady (#69) from our collective list (thirteenth on my ballot). This one was made as a star vehicle for Dan Duryea, who had become a Noir sensation as the delightfully slimy baddies in The Ministry of Fear (#75), Woman in the Window (#65), and Scarlet Street (#29) and later in Too Late for Tears (#81) and Criss Cross (#44), the last two of which were Top Ten material on my ballot. In Black Angel they gave him a chance at the lead, albeit a flawed one.

Duryea is Marty Blair, a piano player and songwriter who had a steamy relationship with a popular singer, Mavis Marlowe (Constance Dowling), they had even been secretly married. But now she wants nothing to do with him, especially on their anniversary. He tries to see her and give her a brooch, but she has the doorman turn him away. While outside he sees another man go up to see her, so he goes to a saloon to drown his sorrows. Later yet another man calls on the beautiful singer, but when he is let upstairs he finds her murdered. He also senses a prowler in the apartment, perhaps the murderer, but they get away including with that brooch. He flees the scene too but is identified, later picked up by the police (led by Broderick Crawford) as the prime suspect. Turns out he is married, was having a brief affair with the singer, but she was now blackmailing him. Though his wife (June Vincent) is upset by the affair, she believes in her husband’s story and innocence. But this mysterious prowler cannot be found so he is convicted and sentenced to death.

98670

Now as the execution date approaches, she desperately teams with Duryea, who did see that other man go up to the apartment that evening, in trying to find the real killer and free an innocent man. Their prime suspect becomes a shady nightclub owner (Peter Lorre). Like many mysteries, convoluted but loads of fun, thanks to the great cast, and Duryea is still charming and menacing as the protagonist rather than the supporting psycho. It was the final film of director Roy William Neill, whose career started in 1917 and was best known for helming the bulk of the Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce Sherlock Holmes flicks. He died suddenly of a heart attack not long after Black Angel was completed. He was only fifty-nine.

I had Black Angel down at number twenty-three on my ballot.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
2. The Killers (#22)
3. Too Late for Tears (#81)
4. The Set-Up (#46)
7. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
8. Odd Man Out (#47)
9. Criss Cross (#44)
10. Stray Dog (#32)
11. The Killing (#11)
12. The Big Combo (#52)
13. Phantom Lady (#69)
14. Born to Kill (#84)
15. Pickup on South Street (#21)
16. The Big Heat (#17)
18. He Walked By Night (#88)
19. Fallen Angel (#80)
20. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
21. Thieves’ Highway (DNP)
22. Panic in the Streets (#98)
23. Black Angel (DNP)
24. Crossfire (#51)
25. The Crimson Kimono (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8WLpIjbxOE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNaOT-ZGbeo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf5kGKfB0Vw

PHOENIX74

04-22-24, 01:15 AM

#8 The Big Sleep (1946) - The Big Sleep is a big movie, and to tell you the truth I like Humphrey Bogart in just about everything I've ever seen him in - but here he has a coolness and style that really dazzles as the famous Philip Marlowe. The whole movie has that cool style to it. It's one of those movies where the hero and his love interest share a certain wit - at times poisonous, but always sexually charged and clever. At first I was slightly befuddled by The Big Sleep's story, but after a second go I had it all worked out - I can't seem to be able to really enjoy any of these film noir classics until I understand each twist and every character's motivation and real story. The biggest problem comes when they lie, then seemingly tell the truth, then it's discovered they lied again and I start losing track of what's real and which information I need to do away with because it's no longer relevant. Suffice to say, I could never be a Philip Marlowe myself. I'd get lost and cases would never get solved. Anyway, this movie is excellent, with Bogart and Bacall in fine form. I had it at #6 on my ballot.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 31/93
I'd never even heard of : 47/93
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 15/93
Films from my list : 19

#8 - My #6 - The Big Sleep (1946)
#9 - My #9 - Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
#10 - My #24 - Laura (1944)
#11 - My #13 - The Killing (1956)
#13 - My #4 - Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
#14 - My #10 - The Night of the Hunter (1955)
#16 - My #15 - The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
#21 - My #17 - Pickup on South Street (1953)
#24 - My #20 - Detour (1945)
#27 - My #14 - Gilda (1946)
#28 - My #11 - Murder, My Sweet (1944)
#31 - My #25 - The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
#33 - My #22 - Nightmare Alley (1947)
#36 - My #16 - Gun Crazy (1950)
#44 - My #19 - Criss Cross (1949)
#54 - My #12 - D.O.A. (1950)
#58 - My #23 - The Breaking Point (1950)
#61 - My #21 - Act of Violence (1949)
#67 - My #18 - The Hitch-Hiker (1953)

Holden Pike

04-22-24, 09:27 AM

1. Sunset Blvd.
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. Double Indemnity
4. In A Lonely Place
5. Out of the Past
6. Touch of Evil
7. The Third Man
8. The Big Sleep
9. Laura
10. Sweet Smell of Success

Since my initial guess order has been pretty damn close so far, only missed flipping Laura and Sweet Smell of Success, I'll stick with what I had and guess that today we are taking a trip to Vienna looking for The Third Man. When will you realize Vienna waits for you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wccRif2DaGs

Sedai

04-22-24, 09:41 AM

I have that on vinyl^^

Anyway - As they say in the old classics, sometin' stinks about yer order! I am just trying to figure out what it is.

Maybe it's that I think both Touch of Evil and The Third Man are for sure Top 5? I think perhaps Out of the Past will be a couple slots lower...

I will guess Out of the Past for today's film noir entry.

Another failure for me yesterday as far as rectification. Instead, I watched The African Queen.

stillmellow

04-22-24, 10:25 AM

I'm going to guess "In a Lonely Place". Go for the double Bogey.

Thief

04-22-24, 10:55 AM

Another one of my Classic Noir no-shows…

98669

Black Angel (1946) is Cornell Woolrich piece. Woolrich is best known for the Hitchcock classic Rear Window but he had many stories adapted into films, including Phantom Lady (#69) from our collective list (thirteenth on my ballot). This one was made as a star vehicle for Dan Duryea, who had become a Noir sensation as the delightfully slimy baddies in The Ministry of Fear (#75), Woman in the Window (#65), and Scarlet Street (#29) and later in Too Late for Tears (#81) and Criss Cross (#44), the last two of which were Top Ten material on my ballot. In Black Angel they gave him a chance at the lead, albeit a flawed one.

Duryea is Marty Blair, a piano player and songwriter who had a steamy relationship with a popular singer, Mavis Marlowe (Constance Dowling), they had even been secretly married. But now she wants nothing to do with him, especially on their anniversary. He tries to see her and give her a brooch, but she has the doorman turn him away. While outside he sees another man go up to see her, so he goes to a saloon to drown his sorrows. Later yet another man calls on the beautiful singer, but when he is let upstairs he finds her murdered. He also senses a prowler in the apartment, perhaps the murderer, but they get away including with that brooch. He flees the scene too but is identified, later picked up by the police (led by Broderick Crawford) as the prime suspect. Turns out he is married, was having a brief affair with the singer, but she was now blackmailing him. Though his wife (June Vincent) is upset by the affair, she believes in her husband’s story and innocence. But this mysterious prowler cannot be found so he is convicted and sentenced to death.

98670

Now as the execution date approaches, she desperately teams with Duryea, who did see that other man go up to the apartment that evening, in trying to find the real killer and free an innocent man. Their prime suspect becomes a shady nightclub owner (Peter Lorre). Like many mysteries, convoluted but loads of fun, thanks to the great cast, and Duryea is still charming and menacing as the protagonist rather than the supporting psycho. It was the final film of director Roy William Neill, whose career started in 1917 and was best known for helming the bulk of the Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce Sherlock Holmes flicks. He died suddenly of a heart attack not long after Black Angel was completed. He was only fifty-nine.

I had Black Angel down at number twenty-three on my ballot.

Just added this to my watchlist. I love Dan Duryea, I love Peter Lorre, Broderick Crawford was great in All the King's Men, and Roy William Neill was the director of a mostly unknown Pre-Code film I saw and liked a while ago called The 9th Guest, so yeah, I'm on board.

Citizen Rules

04-22-24, 11:50 AM

Just added this to my watchlist. I love Dan Duryea, I love Peter Lorre, Broderick Crawford was great in All the King's Men, and Roy William Neill was the director of a mostly unknown Pre-Code film I saw and liked a while ago called The 9th Guest, so yeah, I'm on board.Black Angel was on my short list of noirs for my ballot. I hated to cut it but like everyone else the host only gets 25 noirs to vote for. I've seen Black Angel twice and if I had gotten around to a rewatch of it while I was composing my ballot I might have included it. Previously I reviewed and rated Black Angel rating_4_5

Citizen Rules

04-22-24, 11:56 AM

98675
#7 Out of the Past (1947)

Director: Jacques Tourneur
Production: RKO
Cast: Robert Mitchum, Jane Greer, Kirk Douglas
489 Points, 33 Lists

' A private eye escapes his past to run a gas station in a small town, but his past catches up with him. Now he must return to the big city world of danger, corruption, double crosses, and duplicitous dames.'

_______________________________________

Citizen Rules

04-22-24, 12:05 PM

And once again one of my write ups from one of those many Film Noir HoFs I've done.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F474x%2F51%2F31%2F46%2F5131462e8a8206df167b4957cd7e393e--jane-greer-two-men.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=aed1e8424e9711d5c267d87b8fd8eff3cac4ed7d40bb0f44580faf8c6fb0eec4&ipo=images
Out of the Past (1947)
*spoilers*

It's all about Jane Greer!...I swear once I started looking for an image for this review I got fixated on finding the perfect screenshot of Miss Greer. She was indeed lovely, angelic like...so no wonder Robert Mitchum's character fell like a sack of potatoes for her.

I know some noir fans don't like female leads in their noirs. But me, I prefer a noir that has a strong female lead that causes the events to unfold. Relationships good and bad, that's life. But, I could see why Mitchum's character might've wised he'd never meet the devil in a white dress.

Robert Mitchum is the coolest and you've to pair him up with somebody that can stand up to his strong screen presence and I think Jane Greer did just that. Her character is well written...I actually cheered when she was shot and killed in a car crash. Now usually I've a soft spot for the femme fatale no matter what they might've done. But Kathie (Jane Greer) turned out to be so manipulative that she deserved her fate!...I'm voting Jane Greer prettiest and nastiest femme fatale

John W Constantine

04-22-24, 12:06 PM

Only had that at #17 but it could have been higher. Folks like Tourneur.

Allaby

04-22-24, 12:07 PM

I liked Out of the Past, but it isn't one of my favourite noirs, so it was left out of my ballot.

Seen: 93/94

Holden Pike

04-22-24, 12:13 PM

98680

Out of the Past was #32 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1940s.

Citizen Rules

04-22-24, 12:14 PM

Oh what the hell, more of my musings about today's noir.

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=23947

Out of the Past (Jacques Tourneur 1947)

Out of the Past is the quintessential film noir. It oozes noir style with it's voice over first person narrative and it's catchy fast paced lingo. Robert Mitchum is cool as ice and so is the femme fatale on the lam (Jane Greer). Jane has a face of an angel but behind those doe eyes lurks a steely mind.

Kirk Douglas is on the money, as a man wronged and looking for revenge. His part is a small one but his time on screen is memorable. Out of the Past is full of twist and turns, frame ups and shakedowns. The fun of the movie is trying to following along as Mitchum, Greer and Kirk Douglas through curve balls at each other trying to gain the upper hand.

The film is intelligently written by Daniel Mainwaring and is based on his novel Build My Gallows High. The story is convoluted with more twist than a one lane country road. Be sharp, if you blink you might miss something.

rating_4_5

Torgo

04-22-24, 12:19 PM

Awesome! Out of the Past is #9 on my ballot.

Robert Mitchum ended up on my ballot three times and once or twice on my neo-noir one. Not obsessed or anything. Anyone think he will make another appearance in the remaining six?

seanc

04-22-24, 12:19 PM

Out Of The Past was my 11. Another favorite I have cemented by seeing a few times now. If I have a complaint about it that keeps it from being top 5, it’s that we don’t get enough Mitchum against Douglas scenes. I love Douglas in this, and wish we had more of that dynamic. Awesome Noir though, that deserves a spot this high.

WHITBISSELL!

04-22-24, 12:30 PM

Out of the Past was my #2 pick. I thought it'd be at least Top 5 maybe even in the Top 3. I guess that indicates the strength of the remaining reveals. I'm reasonably sure what 3 of the ones left should be. But I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to what or where they will land.

60 of 94 seen so far.

Sedai

04-22-24, 12:43 PM

Figured we would see this today!

Out of the Past is my favorite classic era noir, and one of my favorite films of all time. I had it at #1, in the pinnacle spot on my ballot. There are a couple other titles that are more dyed-in-the-wool noirs so arguably more deserving of the top spot, but this one is my favorite. Jane Greer's Kathie Moffet is the epitome of the heartless, calculating femme fatale, and Mitchum's Jeff Bailey does all the charismatic mugging you want from a lead. Katie is a black widow spider, with even her name, which is a play on little Miss Muffet, alluding to spiders. During the scene in which she finally snares Jeff for good, they are on a beach with a net behind them. It's on the nose, but it works perfectly, and he doesn't stand a chance.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXlgDzlDNzSOJvvjqGVwk-TQgjiiJCk-WcAHkgkoQGRwT9YP911obNX1qCcYy4HIm1oJWG58GL83nhsKxHk9lIgvui2oc4-elwEXcRRfboLTh3P_v0G8Iyncfj6oDvoxFXfJXDqp4tfXk/s1600/JeffAndKathieOnTheBeach1_OutOfThePast.jpg
"I could go down to the cliff and look at the sea like a good tourist. But, it's no good if there isn't somebody you can turn to and say, "Nice view there.""

In many noir films, the protagonist somehow gets himself involved in a dire situation, becomes trapped, and can never escape. Jeff Bailey had somehow managed to get out. He was a free man, and was living the simple life. But this is film noir, and there is no escaping fate.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjFlLUI3x3ZEbiQ7Y2vVfj3sAspSIR0njfIRAaBea2z8h7CiicE1mFxKC1S_-wuKGyFxSP1nZ08bJok9qvCD4pFmztVesmzHI8TU1Fa8WY1KVHpuCrxQ49MS0YDIMmjVT4_VBJHxmGtdhs/s400/BaileysGasStation_OutOfThePast.jpg
"I often wondered what happened to him. Then one day I'm breezing through here,
and there's his name up on a sign."

Bailey is an iconic noir protagonist. In his mind, he is always a step ahead of the other players, he has a plan, he is toying with them. Alas, he can't see the forest for the trees, and he is doomed from the second Kathie walks in out of the sun and blinds him in the little joint in Mexico.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61VOknl-VFL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg
"And then I saw her, coming out of the sun, and I knew why Whit didn't care about that forty grand"

Greer possessed classic beauty, with alluring features and a fetching figure. Good thing I wasn't in the movie, because I was done for the second I saw her, just like Jeff Bailey. She is so poisonous, she destroys one character just by impersonating her on the phone. After this scene, the character is never seen again.

https://ricardobosque.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/111-jane-greer-out-of-the-past-1947.jpg?w=819&h=1024
"She's a clever little girl and she's always a hop, skip, and a jump ahead"

I was hoping for Top 5, but never really thought it had a chance to beat out some of the more classic, quintessential films like The Third Man and Touch of Evil. Glad to see it up so high, as it is certainly deserving.

WHITBISSELL!

04-22-24, 12:44 PM

It's rounding out nicely. My #25 won't be showing up but I am a little surprised it didn't make the one pointers or even the near misses. I'm also hoping my #1 will land at the #1 spot even though it's odd little flourishes might keep it from achieving full blown noir status.

1. Probably Top 5
2.Out of the Past (#7)
3. High Sierra (#50)
4. Strong maybe
5. Ride the Pink Horse (#45)
6. Mystery Street (#93)
7. Gun Crazy (#36)
8. Night of the Hunter (#14)
9. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
10. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
11. Night and the City (#25)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (#13)
13. The Killing (#11)
14. Stray Dog (#32)
15. Strangers on a Train (#18)
16. Key Largo (#26)
17. You would think so but who knows?
18. Detour (#24)
19. The Narrow Margin (#43)
20. Kansas City Confidential (#53)
21. Where the Sidewalk Ends (#66)
22. Too Late for Tears (#81)
23. The Big Sleep (#8)
24. The Set-Up (#46)
25. House of Bamboo NM (3 votes, 18 points)

Holden Pike

04-22-24, 12:59 PM

A title that many Noir historians and enthusiasts consider THE highpoint of the genre. So we have it at seven, of course. Hey, at least it was Top Ten.

98682

Out of the Past truly is quintessential Noir, with one of the all-time coldest Femme Fatales and bleakest of endings. Mitchum was never better than as Jeff Markham, a private dick tasked to find a gangster’s missing gal. The gangster is the smiling and menacing Whit Sterling (Kirk Douglas). The gal shot him and absconded with $40,000. She is Kathie Moffat (Jane Greer). But he’s still in love with her and only wants her returned, unharmed. For an incredible fee of $10K plus expenses, Jeff takes the job. He eventually tracks her down in Acapulco, Mexico. She is so alluring that even the hardened P.I. who knows better almost immediately falls for her. They plan to run away together. It doesn’t work out after Kathie double crosses him.

98683

Jeff tries to put it all behind him, changing his name in a small, dusty California town, working at the gas station and settling down with a local girl (Virginia Huston) who doesn’t know about his past. Unfortunately for him one of Whit’s henchmen passes through and spots him, making him confront the unfinished business. The original title of the novel is Build My Gallows High, and that tells you where it is all headed. Gloriously dark as we watch the characters unable to outrun their inevitable fates. Cinematographer Nicholas Musuraca’s visuals are as iconic as the characters.

I had Out of the Past at number five, twenty-one of its 489 points!

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
2. The Killers (#22)
3. Too Late for Tears (#81)
4. The Set-Up (#46)
5. Out of the Past (#7)
7. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
8. Odd Man Out (#47)
9. Criss Cross (#44)
10. Stray Dog (#32)
11. The Killing (#11)
12. The Big Combo (#52)
13. Phantom Lady (#69)
14. Born to Kill (#84)
15. Pickup on South Street (#21)
16. The Big Heat (#17)
18. He Walked By Night (#88)
19. Fallen Angel (#80)
20. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
21. Thieves’ Highway (DNP)
22. Panic in the Streets (#98)
23. Black Angel (DNP)
24. Crossfire (#51)
25. The Crimson Kimono (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFvar6O8MHk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV-nbFuka6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7YzbEGKO90

Harry Lime

04-22-24, 01:21 PM

I only had it at #24 but with all the praise here and its high ranking I feel it would be good to give it a rewatch since it has been a long time.

3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
7. Notorious (1946)
8. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
9. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
10. Stray Dog (1949)
11. Mildred Pierce (1945)
13. Detour (1945)
14. The Big Sleep (1946)
15. Bob le flambeur (1956)
16. The Killers (1946)
17. Rififi (1955)
18. The Killing (1956)
19. Strangers on a Train (1951)
20. Gilda (1946)
21. Pickup on South Street (1953)
22. Laura (1944)
23. White Heat (1949)
24. Out of the Past (1947)
25. Nightmare Alley (1947)

SpelingError

04-22-24, 01:39 PM

Out of the Past was #2 on my ballot. I wrote something on it awhile ago, but sadly, I never saved it. Happy it made it so high though.

SpelingError

04-22-24, 01:40 PM

2) Out of the Past
5) Night and the City
6. The Killing
7) The Night of the Hunter
8) White Heat
9) Detour
12) Shadow of a Doubt
13) Ace in the Hole
14) Gun Crazy
16) The Postman Always Rings Twice
18) The Stranger
19) Odd Man Out
21) Mildred Pierce
22) The Lost Weekend
23) Sweet Smell of Success
24) Crossfire
25) The Big Sleep

Holden Pike

04-22-24, 01:42 PM

I only had it at #24 but with all the praise here and its high ranking I feel it would be good to give it a rewatch since it has been a long time.

3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
I so wonder what Harry Lime's numero uno will be. :)

Harry Lime

04-22-24, 02:52 PM

It's a mystery only to be solved at the end of the countdown.

Sedai

04-22-24, 03:17 PM

I highly recommend watching the Out of the Past Film Noirchives video Holden posted. Regardless of how you might feel about Raz0rfist, his Film Noirchive videos are all must-sees, especially this one as well as the Blade Runner and The Big Combo episodes.

Hey Fredrick

04-22-24, 03:58 PM

When time was running out for submitting a ballot I kept getting harassed about making sure I got SOMETHING sent in (just kidding CR). I kept saying I will , I just need to watch a couple more. Well, Out of the Past was the last noir I watched, the very day I sent in my ballot. Of all the films I crammed at the end I guess you could say I saved the best for last. Given more time and maybe a re-watch or two this could have possibly eked into my top five but as it is, after one viewing, it sits at number 6 for me.

I may have forgotten to mention this earlier but I had another Mitchum noir at number 20: Night of the Hunter.

Thief

04-22-24, 04:27 PM

Ahhh, I wish it would've been higher, but I can't complain. Yeah, Out of the Past is my favorite film noir, and therefore my #1. Most of you have already mentioned its strengths so I won't babble much but I will just reiterate the superb casting:

Mitchum is perfectly smooth in the lead role as the man who seems to have all the cards stacked against him but still pushes through, while Douglas is cool as ice as the antagonist who just won't leave him alone. Finally, Greer does a great job reeling you in, while you're still wondering her real motives.

That's what I wrote last time I revisited it and here's my full review (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2252029-out_of_the_past.html). It's an amazing film.

SEEN: 34/94
MY BALLOT: 19/25

1. Out of the Past (#7)
2.
3. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
4.
5.
6. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
7.
8. The Big Sleep (#8)
9. Ace in the Hole (#19)
10. Gilda (#27)
11. Criss Cross (#44)
12. Notorious (#20)
13. Laura (#10)
14. Detour (#24)
15. Mildred Pierce (#15)
16.
17. The Narrow Margin (#43)
18. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
19.
20. Gun Crazy (#36)
21. The Hitch-Hiker (#67)
22. The Killing (#11)
23. The Woman in the Window (#65)
24. D.O.A. (#54)
25. Kansas City Confidential (#53)

Kaplan

04-22-24, 04:54 PM

I had Out of the Past at #5, one of the noirish of all the noirs, and in all the right places.

My List:
5.Out of the Past (#7)
6. Pickup on South Street (#21)
7. Stray Dog (#32)
8. The Killing (#11)
9. Laura (#10)
10. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
11. Where the Sidewalk Ends (#66)
13. The Big Heat (#17)
14. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
15. Elevator to the Gallows (#41)
16. The Big Sleep (#8)
17. Ace in the Hole (#19)
18. Gilda (#27)
19. Mildred Pierce (#15)
20. This Gun for Hire (#78)
21. The Postman Always Rings Twice (#23)
22. The Wrong Man (#39)
23. The Set-Up (#46)
24. Scarlet Street (#29)
25. Gun Crazy (#36)

honeykid

04-22-24, 05:07 PM

I don't like Mitchum or Noir. Guess which of the recent reveals I've not seen? :D

I do like the Sweet Smell Of Success though. In fact, I like it enough to have it at #8 on my list. A magnificent script makes for a brilliant film perfectly played. Like Kane or All About Eve, I think it'd have to be continuous to become bored with it or not enjoy those lines.

Thief

04-22-24, 05:24 PM

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=98683

I could sing praises to this film all day, but I would love to highlight this scene, which is probably my favorite of the film.

Not because of the action and the shot, but because it is the actual "a-ha!" moment for Jeff, and for us as the audience. So perfectly acted by Mitchum and Greer; the look on his face, the look on her face, the look on my face when it happened. It certainly caught me off guard. Love it.

beelzebubble

04-22-24, 06:26 PM

Out of the Past is not on my list. It's a movie that I haven't vibed with yet, but I am sure I will give it another chance someday.

The Sweet Smell of Success is not on my list because I never considered it Film Noir. It's a great movie with stellar performances by Tony Curtis and Burt Lancaster, The script is out of this world. Almost everyone is a shady character but there is no crime per se except for the boyfriend getting roughed up.
The Big Sleep is my #15. An excellent movie, full of wonderful set pieces for the actors to explore especially everyone's favorite the book store scene.

mrblond

04-22-24, 06:31 PM

I have the last three on my ballot, though there are issues with all of them.

9 Sweet Smell of Success (1957) was my #22.
I'd say that this movie would sink into oblivion since nobody in the world cares about the meaningless Tony Curtis chatter (first half of the film). Then, Burt Lancaster appeared and save the show. Thanks to Lancaster, this title somehow made my list.
-----

8 The Big Sleep (1946) was my #18.
I see, there is a big Bogart army here, how can I say that he is just OK but not very good for this job.
I'd like to ask: How many are familiar with Raymond Chandler and his original novels?
In my view, Hollywood completely failed in adapting his original works for the big screen. I think the only successful filming are the TV series 1983-86, featuring Powers Boothe as Marlowe (but I need to rewatch them to see how I'll feel them now).
Anyway, I've included The Big Sleep on ballot, it's OK.
-----

7. Out of the Past (1947) was my #16.
That's an interesting rich story, though a bit overcooked at some parts. Whatever...
-----

rauldc14

04-22-24, 06:35 PM

Out of the Past was my 17. It's still good even after the third watch.

cricket

04-22-24, 08:07 PM

I had to doublecheck to see if Out of the Past made my ballot. No, but that means it was a contender.

GulfportDoc

04-22-24, 08:37 PM

Out of the Past (1947)

This is a noir’s noir-- one of the best examples in the entire movement. Director Jacques Tourneur guides this dark tale of revenge, double cross, and sexual attraction; along with impressive photography by one of the top 3 noir cinematographers, the great Nicholas Musaraca. It’s perfectly cast with Robert Mitchum, Jane Greer, Kirk Douglas, and Rhonda Fleming, expressing a brilliant script by author/screen writer Daniel Mainwaring.

An ex investigator living a new life is dragged back into the past where we learn that he had been hired by a gambling boss to track down the boss’s girlfriend who ran off with $40K of his money. The investigator finds her, at which point the story becomes complicated with murders, double crosses, and twists which is kept on track by Mitchum as narrator. In the end everyone gets what’s coming to them.

The dialogue and staging are perfect. Jane Greer’s Kathie Moffat is one of the most cold blooded femme fatales in all of noir, rivaling anything by Bette Davis or Anne Savage. She’s drop dead gorgeous, with alluring limpid eyes, and has a predilection for the use of a gat.

The film is one of the greatest of all classical noirs. I have it at #4 on my noir list.

Thief

04-22-24, 10:57 PM

The Sweet Smell of Success is not on my list because I never considered it Film Noir. It's a great movie with stellar performances by Tony Curtis and Burt Lancaster, The script is out of this world. Almost everyone is a shady character but there is no crime per se except for the boyfriend getting roughed up.
The Big Sleep is my #15. An excellent movie, full of wonderful set pieces for the actors to explore especially everyone's favorite the book store scene.

I would say that more important than an actual crime being committed, the most important thing for a film noir is the moral decay of the characters, something that the film has plenty of.

Little Ash

04-22-24, 11:31 PM

Some catch-ups:

#14 The Night of the Hunter: My #11. I don't know what to say about this, since I like it, I recall the night time pursuit scenes on the river struck me as the most noir, but this is a movie that other people love, so I suspect I only like where other people gush. But those river scenes, in my mind capture what I was going for when I was going for noir.

#11 The Killing: My #14 - fun crime movie. I tried not to let my Kubrick bias over-rate it here, so only #14. Plus, as I determined when I chose my #1 and #2, I like the dark melodramas more than the crime movies.

#09 The Sweet Smell of Success: My #12. I mean, seedy underbelly, morally dark story about a seedy Tony Curtis, with Burt Lancaster playing a terrifyingly quiet, arch, newspaper owner/editor. I'll concede I only saw it this year, along with The Swimmer, so I'm on a bit of a Burt Lancaster high from those two films at the moment. Maybe I should have included Nightcrawler on my neo-noir list after all.

#12 Shadow of a Doubt: I crossed off this Hitchcock blindspot in preparation for this ballot. A solid thriller. I think I just don't register Hitch's movies as noir.

#10: Laura: Another big title I watched in preparation for this countdown. I don't remember much about it even though I watched it a couple of months ago. I think that's tied to why it's not on my ballot. I really enjoyed Preminger's Bunny Lake is Missing, but that's from the 60s and is unfortunately not eligible.

#8: The Big Sleep: I remember seeing this decades ago in college, when we were supposed to reading the book for an intro English class. I don't remember much about it, but I recall not being a big fan of the film adaptation, so I didn't revisit it for here.

From my ballot, not making it:
My #24: I Am Waiting 1957 (Japan, Kurahara). I caught this in the Japanese noir collection that showed up on the criterion channel, like a year ago. This movie is still up there if people want to watch it. Checking my letterboxd very brief thoughts from the time, I liked Kurahara's Intimidation even more, but it's from 1960 and also ineligible for this countdown. It's now been long enough, I feel like I should probably re-watch these.

https://vhx.imgix.net/criterionchannelchartersu/assets/cf7e8883-9eb5-4e99-af52-13a4ecd4e6bf.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=crop&h=720&q=75&w=1280 (https://www.criterionchannel.com/i-am-waiting)

https://vhx.imgix.net/criterionchannelchartersu/assets/b2911082-0025-4077-ae72-fbce10d426a2.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=crop&h=720&q=75&w=1280 (https://www.criterionchannel.com/intimidation)

01.
02.
03. M 1931 <- ineligible so just bump up everything below this by 1.
04. (#19) Ace in the Hole 1951
05.
06.
07.
08.
09. (#42) Rififi 1955
10. (#41) Elevator to the Gallows 1958
11. (#14) The Night of the Hunter 1955
12. (#09) Sweet Smell of Success 1957
13. (#07) Out of the Past 1957
14. (#11) The Killing #1956
15. (#23) The Postman Always Rings Twice 1946
16. (#34) The Lost Weekend 1945
17.
18. (#33) Nightmare Alley 1947
19.
20. (#60) The Naked City
21. (#67) The Hitch-Hiker
22. (#96) Gaslight 1944
23. (#56) Niagara 1953
24. (###) I am Waiting 1957
25. (#24) Detour 1945

stillmellow

04-23-24, 01:19 AM

I'm ashamed to admit I haven't seen Out of the Past yet. It's still on my watch list.

Thursday Next

04-23-24, 02:33 AM

I feel like there's a whole bunch of these films that I have seen but don't remember clearly.

dadgumblah

04-23-24, 04:14 AM

When I first started seeking out Noir films, ahem, in the past, Out of the Past was constantly listed as top-shelf Film Noir, so I watched it the first time I could catch it on TCM and I thought it was great. One of those Noirs where you shouldn't become too attached to the leads in it. :) It's everything that everyone that loves it has said about it and I knew it would place high, so I knew it didn't need my help. Glad to see it up where it belongs.

#1 The Killing List Proper #11
#2 The Asphalt Jungle List Proper #16
#3
#4 The Big Combo List Proper #52
#5 Pickup on South Street List Proper #23
#6 Kansas City Confidential List Proper #53
#7 The Big Sleep List Proper #8
#8 While the City Sleeps NM
#9 Lady in the Lake NM
#10 The Big Heat List Proper #17
#11 Kiss Me Deadly List Proper #13
#12 The Postman Always Rings Twice List Proper #23
#13 Murder, My Sweet List Proper #28
#14 Kiss of Death List Proper #59
#15 He Walked By Night List Proper #88
#16 The Naked City List Proper #60
#17 The Killers List Proper #22
#18 Detour List Proper #24
#19 The Glass Key NM
#20 Gun Crazy List Proper #36
#21 Impact NM
#22 This Gun For Hire List Proper #78
#23 The Narrow Margin List Proper #43
#24 Pitfall NM
#25 Crossfire List Proper #51

PHOENIX74

04-23-24, 06:01 AM

#7 Out of the Past (1947) - For a moment there I thought I might have forgotten about Out of the Past, but sure enough it's on my ballot. At it's central core, it has that familiar element to film noir - the protagonist doing something awfully foolish, and deadly, because of an irresistible impulse a femme fatale has given him - born of sexual attraction. Here it's (forgive me for dispensing with character names) Robert Mitchum falling for Jane Greer, who "belongs" to gangster Kirk Douglas (in a very early film role for him.) Mitchum is terrific in this, and the dialogue is fantastic as well. I thought things got a little confusing during the period where Mitchum is being set up (but knows he's being set up), but overall this is what you'd expect from the best of this genre. I've already seen Out of the Past a couple of times, and it's already a firm favourite when it comes to these original film noir classics. I had this #7 at #7 on my ballot. That's twice my ballot number and countdown number have matched.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 32/94
I'd never even heard of : 47/94
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 15/94
Films from my list : 20

#7 - My #7 - Out of the Past (1947)
#8 - My #6 - The Big Sleep (1946)
#9 - My #9 - Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
#10 - My #24 - Laura (1944)
#11 - My #13 - The Killing (1956)
#13 - My #4 - Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
#14 - My #10 - The Night of the Hunter (1955)
#16 - My #15 - The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
#21 - My #17 - Pickup on South Street (1953)
#24 - My #20 - Detour (1945)
#27 - My #14 - Gilda (1946)
#28 - My #11 - Murder, My Sweet (1944)
#31 - My #25 - The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
#33 - My #22 - Nightmare Alley (1947)
#36 - My #16 - Gun Crazy (1950)
#44 - My #19 - Criss Cross (1949)
#54 - My #12 - D.O.A. (1950)
#58 - My #23 - The Breaking Point (1950)
#61 - My #21 - Act of Violence (1949)
#67 - My #18 - The Hitch-Hiker (1953)

Holden Pike

04-23-24, 09:37 AM

I am guessing Touch of Evil for today's reveal on the big countdown.

Iroquois

04-23-24, 11:07 AM

out of the past wasn't on my list. i've seen it once and remember liking it, but not a huge impression. always mean to revisit it once i get the chance.

Citizen Rules

04-23-24, 12:26 PM

98699

#6 In a Lonely Place (1950)

Director: Nicholas Ray
Production: Santana Pictures Corporation
Cast: Humphrey Bogart, Gloria Grahame, Frank Lovejoy, Jeff Donnell
591 Points, 37 Lists

'A potentially violent screenwriter is a murder suspect until his lovely neighbor clears him. However, she soon starts to have her doubts.'

_______________________________________

rauldc14

04-23-24, 12:28 PM

My number five. I've only seen it once but I was super impressed!

Allaby

04-23-24, 12:29 PM

I like In a Lonely Place, but never loved it. It didn't make my ballot.

Seen: 94/95

John W Constantine

04-23-24, 12:43 PM

It would only have had 590 points without my help, not my favorite Bogey but glad it's here.

Citizen Rules

04-23-24, 12:48 PM

In a Lonely Place was in the very first HoF that I'd hosted, the Film Noir Hall of Fame (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=38344). It came in first and was nominated by Sane. I've seen a couple of times since then. Good noir and deserved to be on the countdown.

WHITBISSELL!

04-23-24, 01:12 PM

Watched In a Lonely Place (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2231683#post2231683) and since I'm a big Bogart fan I really enjoyed it. I'm still surprised it placed so high in the countdown. I didn't know it had so many fans here. I didn't really consider it for the countdown. This isn't the last we'll see of Bogey though. Five reveals left. Three are readily predictable. I think. The other two?¯\_(ツ)_/¯

61 of 95 seen so far.

seanc

04-23-24, 01:18 PM

Best Bogie!! I said it, and I would say it again Sam. My #2. It was love at first viewing…and second, and third.

Holden Pike

04-23-24, 01:24 PM

98709

In A Lonely Place was #33 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1950s.

SpelingError

04-23-24, 01:37 PM

In a Lonely Place was #4 on my ballot. It's one of the first noirs I remember being a fan of.

SpelingError

04-23-24, 01:38 PM

2) Out of the Past
4) In a Lonely Place
5) Night and the City
6. The Killing
7) The Night of the Hunter
8) White Heat
9) Detour
12) Shadow of a Doubt
13) Ace in the Hole
14) Gun Crazy
16) The Postman Always Rings Twice
18) The Stranger
19) Odd Man Out
21) Mildred Pierce
22) The Lost Weekend
23) Sweet Smell of Success
24) Crossfire
25) The Big Sleep

stillmellow

04-23-24, 01:54 PM

In a Lonely Place is my #3! And also my favorite Bogart movie. To me, it's everything the movie Suspicion should have been. An air of paranoia and despair hangs over every scene in the second half. One of the perfect noir thrillers.

Sedai

04-23-24, 02:29 PM

For the record, this film was going to be my guess for today's reveal, but I never made it in here to post. Oh well.

The reason it was my guess is that it is one of those films I have seen on lists of noirs in the past, but had never heard much about it. I have never seen it. Another one for the rectification list!

Holden Pike

04-23-24, 02:41 PM

Some folks' definition of Noir is pretty narrow. Stalwart detectives, dangerous dames, shadowy underworlds, and the perfect crime gone wrong. But Noir is more correctly a tone and a style than a genre. While many Noirs do have similar elements and plots, what it is really all about is the darkness of the human soul, the helplessness of good when confronted by evil, a cynical refraction of the American Dream. In A Lonely Place does have a murder and a police suspect in the mix, but that’s not what the movie is about.

98708

Humphrey Bogart is Dix Steele, a once brilliant screenwriter whose career is on the outs due to his volatile temperament and drinking. But an old friend has gotten him a good job adapting a best-selling novel. It’s a romance novel, not Dix’s bag. With the deadline approaching he can’t even be bothered to read it. But he gets lucky. The young hat check girl at the restaurant has overheard part of their conversation and admits she loved the book. Dix asks her back to his apartment to tell him the story and highlights of the book. While entering his apartment he is noticed by his new neighbor, Laurel Gray (Gloria Grahame). The young girl begins to tell him the story, but he realizes pretty quickly he can make it up and come nearly as close. He gives the girl cab fare home and sets to typing.

The next morning he is woken by a friend of his, Detective Sergeant Nicolai (Frank Lovejoy), a former War buddy and now a homicide detective. That young hat check girl has been murdered overnight, and since Dix very publicly invited her to his apartment, he is the prime suspect. Dix, being a cynical misanthrope, is more amused by the accusation than upset. The cops also bring in that neighbor, and Laurel gives him an alibi, saying that she saw the girl come and also leave. As a relationship quickly develops between the neighbors the question becomes did Dix and that violent temper of his actually kill that girl, and whether he did or didn’t is he capable of it? Fantastic characters, iconic performances, and that moral mystery.

98707

Whenever I am pressed to pick one title as my all-time favorite Film Noir it is In A Lonely Place. The dream of love killed by our darkest nature. “I was born when she kissed me, I died when she left me, I lived a few weeks while she loved me.” My full twenty-five points helped get it to number six on the collective list.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
1. In A Lonely Place (#6)
2. The Killers (#22)
3. Too Late for Tears (#81)
4. The Set-Up (#46)
5. Out of the Past (#7)
7. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
8. Odd Man Out (#47)
9. Criss Cross (#44)
10. Stray Dog (#32)
11. The Killing (#11)
12. The Big Combo (#52)
13. Phantom Lady (#69)
14. Born to Kill (#84)
15. Pickup on South Street (#21)
16. The Big Heat (#17)
18. He Walked By Night (#88)
19. Fallen Angel (#80)
20. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
21. Thieves’ Highway (DNP)
22. Panic in the Streets (#98)
23. Black Angel (DNP)
24. Crossfire (#51)
25. The Crimson Kimono (DNP)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF2Lxh8HkLU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V99eLmanYxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COlcn5i0kOM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czV72eDa2wo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqexy0ilSHM

Sedai

04-23-24, 03:08 PM

First place on Holden's list? Now I really need to see this...

Harry Lime

04-23-24, 04:03 PM

In a Lonely Place is a superb film. I had it at #12 but on another it could have easily placed in my top 10. Just watch it already, Sedai.

3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
7. Notorious (1946)
8. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
9. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
10. Stray Dog (1949)
11. Mildred Pierce (1945)
12. In a Lonely Place (1950)
13. Detour (1945)
14. The Big Sleep (1946)
15. Bob le flambeur (1956)
16. The Killers (1946)
17. Rififi (1955)
18. The Killing (1956)
19. Strangers on a Train (1951)
20. Gilda (1946)
21. Pickup on South Street (1953)
22. Laura (1944)
23. White Heat (1949)
24. Out of the Past (1947)
25. Nightmare Alley (1947)

Kaplan

04-23-24, 04:45 PM

In a Lonely Place was my #12. It's definitely a case where you watch a character you really want to root for, only they have this fatal flaw, which is just going to carry them under. Still have a Bogart film higher on my list.

My List:
5.Out of the Past (#7)
6. Pickup on South Street (#21)
7. Stray Dog (#32)
8. The Killing (#11)
9. Laura (#10)
10. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
11. Where the Sidewalk Ends (#66)
12. In a Lonely Place (#6)
13. The Big Heat (#17)
14. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
15. Elevator to the Gallows (#41)
16. The Big Sleep (#8)
17. Ace in the Hole (#19)
18. Gilda (#27)
19. Mildred Pierce (#15)
20. This Gun for Hire (#78)
21. The Postman Always Rings Twice (#23)
22. The Wrong Man (#39)
23. The Set-Up (#46)
24. Scarlet Street (#29)
25. Gun Crazy (#36)

Little Ash

04-23-24, 04:52 PM

First place on Holden's list? Now I really need to see this...

*cough*

In a Lonely Place is on my ballot at... *doesn't need to check ballot*, it's my #1.
I'll mostly echo Holden. Noir to me is the darkness of the human spirit. And this is the one feels like the dark lifetime of the soul.

I only watched this movie once a couple of years ago, but I loved it so much. It kind of disappointed me when trying to fill out this ballot that I struggled to come up with other similarly bleak movies.

Thief

04-23-24, 06:12 PM

In a Lonely Place is great. Probably my favorite Bogart performance. Really love the dark corners it pushes him to go. I had it at #16. That said, I'm really surprised it ended up at #6, 100+ points above Out of the Past and especially The Big Sleep. Not a slight on it, though. Just the general perception of the films.

SEEN: 35/95
MY BALLOT: 20/25

1. Out of the Past (#7)
2.
3. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
4.
5.
6. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
7.
8. The Big Sleep (#8)
9. Ace in the Hole (#19)
10. Gilda (#27)
11. Criss Cross (#44)
12. Notorious (#20)
13. Laura (#10)
14. Detour (#24)
15. Mildred Pierce (#15)
16. In a Lonely Place (#6)
17. The Narrow Margin (#43)
18. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
19.
20. Gun Crazy (#36)
21. The Hitch-Hiker (#67)
22. The Killing (#11)
23. The Woman in the Window (#65)
24. D.O.A. (#54)
25. Kansas City Confidential (#53)

cricket

04-23-24, 06:24 PM

I thought well of In a Lonely Place but have needed another viewing for a long time.

Little Ash

04-23-24, 06:26 PM

For a reveal.

My #17 is Repeat Performance. I randomly saw it in one of the various noir collections that have shown up on Criterion every month since November (someone there really leaned into noir this year). I just can't remember which one.

https://vhx.imgix.net/criterionchannelchartersu/assets/30ef394b-3ffa-488d-a5ab-c863888d274c.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=crop&h=720&q=75&w=1280 (https://www.criterionchannel.com/repeat-performance)

The criterion description pretty much says exactly what it is:

Something like film noir’s answer to It’s A Wonderful Life, or a full-length precursor to The Twilight Zone, this amazingly original hybrid of film noir, supernatural fantasy, and backstage melodrama casts Joan Leslie as a Broadway performer who magically gets the chance to relive the previous year of her life. But can she alter the fateful mistakes and misjudgments that led to a New Year’s Eve tragedy? Produced as a rare prestige picture by fledgling Poverty Row studio Eagle-Lion Pictures, this darkly imaginative noir also features Richard Basehart in his movie debut as a gay artist, one of the era’s most sensitive depictions of a queer character.

You know what? I really like The Twilight Zone. It's on my list.

01. (#06) In a Lonely Place
02.
03. M 1931 <- ineligible so just bump up everything below this by 1.
04. (#19) Ace in the Hole 1951
05.
06.
07.
08.
09. (#42) Rififi 1955
10. (#41) Elevator to the Gallows 1958
11. (#14) The Night of the Hunter 1955
12. (#09) Sweet Smell of Success 1957
13. (#07) Out of the Past 1957
14. (#11) The Killing #1956
15. (#23) The Postman Always Rings Twice 1946
16. (#34) The Lost Weekend 1945
17. (###) Repeat Performance 1947
18. (#33) Nightmare Alley 1947
19. (#38) The Stranger (1946)
20. (#60) The Naked City
21. (#67) The Hitch-Hiker
22. (#96) Gaslight 1944
23. (#56) Niagara 1953
24. (###) I am Waiting 1957
25. (#24) Detour 1945

GulfportDoc

04-23-24, 08:01 PM

In A Lonely Place featured career best performances by both Bogart and Gloria Grahame. It also was graced by two of the best in the business: director Nicholas Ray (They Live by Night; Rebel Without a Cause), and cinematographer Burnett Guffey (All the King's Men; From Here to Eternity).

It always seemed incongruous to me that Steele (Bogart) in the end hadn't killed anyone despite his extreme hot-headedness. Turns out in the original script Steele strangles to death Laurel Gray (Grahame), but Ray refused to have that ending.

Eddie "The Czar of Noir" Muller states that this picture is his favorite noir film. I love the picture as well, but have placed it at #7.

crumbsroom

04-23-24, 08:28 PM

I only watched this movie once a couple of years ago, but I loved it so much. It kind of disappointed me when trying to fill out this ballot that I struggled to come up with other similarly bleak movies.

Kiss Me Deadly?

Little Ash

04-23-24, 08:50 PM

Kiss Me Deadly?

On the long list of titles that came up on best noirs that I didn't get to. I'll bump this one up towards the front of the queue if it's in that vein.

ETA: looks like it's not readily streamable for me. I will have to keep an eye out for it when it does.

dadgumblah

04-23-24, 08:55 PM

In a Lonely Place is one that I've only seen once but that was enough to impress me mightily. Bogie is awesome here, and Gloria Grahame is probably the best she's ever been (although her role in The Big Heat comes real close). Still, I didn't want to put too many Bogart films on my list. Although...:)

#1 The Killing List Proper #11
#2 The Asphalt Jungle List Proper #16
#3
#4 The Big Combo List Proper #52
#5 Pickup on South Street List Proper #23
#6 Kansas City Confidential List Proper #53
#7 The Big Sleep List Proper #8
#8 While the City Sleeps NM
#9 Lady in the Lake NM
#10 The Big Heat List Proper #17
#11 Kiss Me Deadly List Proper #13
#12 The Postman Always Rings Twice List Proper #23
#13 Murder, My Sweet List Proper #28
#14 Kiss of Death List Proper #59
#15 He Walked By Night List Proper #88
#16 The Naked City List Proper #60
#17 The Killers List Proper #22
#18 Detour List Proper #24
#19 The Glass Key NM
#20 Gun Crazy List Proper #36
#21 Impact NM
#22 This Gun For Hire List Proper #78
#23 The Narrow Margin List Proper #43
#24 Pitfall NM
#25 Crossfire List Proper #51

Thief

04-23-24, 10:12 PM

Forgot to mention that In a Lonely Place was Nicholas Ray's third entry in the countdown. He had already placed They Live by Night (#55) and On Dangerous Ground (#62).

Thief

04-23-24, 10:27 PM

Stats: Pit Stop #10
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjFlLUI3x3ZEbiQ7Y2vVfj3sAspSIR0njfIRAaBea2z8h7CiicE1mFxKC1S_-wuKGyFxSP1nZ08bJok9qvCD4pFmztVesmzHI8TU1Fa8WY1KVHpuCrxQ49MS0YDIMmjVT4_VBJHxmGtdhs/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/BaileysGasStation_OutOfThePast.jpg

-

After hitting our tenth pit stop (95), here's were we are now:

Yearly Breakdown

1940 = 4
1941 = 1
1942 = 1
1943 = 2
1944 = 7
1945 = 7
1946 = 10
1947 = 11
1948 = 10
1949 = 7
1950 = 10
1951 = 4
1952 = 3
1953 = 5
1954 = 0
1955 = 6
1956 = 4
1957 = 1
1958 = 2
1959 = 0

1947 retakes the lead by the skin of its teeth, with 1946, 1948, and 1950 close behind it. Also, 1957 finally gets an entry while 1954 and 1959 remain clean.

Repeating Directors

Alfred Hitchcock = 7
Otto Preminger = 4
Fritz Lang = 4
Jules Dassin = 4
Robert Siodmak = 3
Orson Welles = 3
Robert Wise = 3
Henry Hathaway = 3
Nicholas Ray = 3
William Wyler = 3
Howard Hawks = 2
Billy Wilder = 2
Michael Curtiz = 2
John Huston = 2
Edward Dmytryk = 2
Raoul Walsh = 2
Akira Kurosawa = 2
Joseph H. Lewis = 2
Jules Dassin = 2
John Cromwell = 2
Robert Rossen = 2

Alfred Hitchcock remains untouched, but Otto Preminger gets his fourth one. Meanwhile, Nicholas Ray gets his third and Howard Hawks joins the group with two.

PHOENIX74

04-24-24, 06:39 AM

#6 In a Lonely Place - Oh, how good this is. It came up on my watchlist recently, and this is the review I wrote :

Wow - that was a surprise. A film noir directed with incredible panache by Nicholas Ray that features one of Humphrey Bogart's finest ever performances, and I don't think I'd ever even heard of it before. Like the best of it's kind, it gave me that special kind of feeling the moment it ended - a mixture of sadness and shock mixed with excitement and supreme satisfaction. Bogart plays screenwriter Dixon Steele, accused of murdering a girl he had over at his apartment one night, and given an alibi by neighbour Laurel Gray (Gloria Grahame), who saw the girl leave his apartment alone (and alive.) The film keeps the door open as to whether Steele really did have something to do with her murder, but what's certain is that this is a troubled man. Talk about methods of murder excites him, and he explodes into violence at the slightest provocation. When Steele and Laurel fall in love, the former starts to work again after a long hiatus - but the latter has yet to witness the terrifying change of personality that occurs when he's angered.

It's refreshing to see a film that wants to examine violence in a serious and meaningful way. So many are forced to excuse it because of it's essential necessity as part of the conflict in a story - with protagonists forced to depend on it. Here it's senseless - much like road rage, which I was thinking about quite a bit during the film. Steele's first moment of anger comes early in the film, while he's in his car waiting at the lights and gets into an altercation for talking to a jealous man's wife. Later he takes out his fury on a motorist he swipes while rage-driving, where all sense of proportion is lost and he nearly takes to the man with a rock he picks up on the side of the road. It looks primal and savage - like Bogart has suddenly become a cave man in some paleolithic era exhibit. That along with the possibility he murdered that girl has poor Laurel's internal alarm triggered - exacerbated when Steele starts pressuring her into huge decisions like marriage. Steele's disintegration is terrible to sit through, but we can't look away.

I read that Humphrey Bogart came closest to presenting his real-life persona on film as he ever did in this feature - which is both sad and a little unnerving. So many have that kind of rage trigger in them (and I think the number could possibly be halved if they stopped drinking.) Here we see it poison a love story still at the height of it's honeymoon phase, adding extra weight to the "did he kill that girl?" question which would probably have been dismissed if he didn't seem like the guy that'd do it. But overall, I found In a Lonely Place to be a tremendously gripping movie, and one that forged it's own way forward without relying on clichés or formulas. Loads of talent both in front of and behind the cameras, and a frightening intensity in Humphrey Bogart's performance. I'm all too happy to add it to the pile of films that are new favourites of mine, reminding myself to drop the odd, "Have you seen In an Lonely Place?" into conversations as if I've known about it all my life. Absolute masterpiece.

Despite only having seen it recently, In a Lonely Place ended up snagging a lofty #3 position on my ballot. It was simply that good.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 33/95
I'd never even heard of : 47/95
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 15/95
Films from my list : 21

#6 - My #3 - In a Lonely Place (1950)
#7 - My #7 - Out of the Past (1947)
#8 - My #6 - The Big Sleep (1946)
#9 - My #9 - Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
#10 - My #24 - Laura (1944)
#11 - My #13 - The Killing (1956)
#13 - My #4 - Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
#14 - My #10 - The Night of the Hunter (1955)
#16 - My #15 - The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
#21 - My #17 - Pickup on South Street (1953)
#24 - My #20 - Detour (1945)
#27 - My #14 - Gilda (1946)
#28 - My #11 - Murder, My Sweet (1944)
#31 - My #25 - The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
#33 - My #22 - Nightmare Alley (1947)
#36 - My #16 - Gun Crazy (1950)
#44 - My #19 - Criss Cross (1949)
#54 - My #12 - D.O.A. (1950)
#58 - My #23 - The Breaking Point (1950)
#61 - My #21 - Act of Violence (1949)
#67 - My #18 - The Hitch-Hiker (1953)

PHOENIX74

04-24-24, 06:41 AM

I just realised a HUGE omission from my list that is coming up, and I have my head buried in my hands.....

Harry Lime

04-24-24, 08:32 AM

1. Sunset Boulevard
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. The Third Man
4. Double Indemnity
5. Touch of Evil

John-Connor

04-24-24, 08:46 AM

1. Double Indemnity
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. Sunset Boulevard
4. The Third Man
5. Touch of Evil

John-Connor

04-24-24, 09:07 AM

98711
98712
Near the Plaza was a little café called La Mar Azul, next to a movie house. I sat there in the afternoons and drank beer. I used to sit there half asleep with a beer in the darkness, only the music from the movie next door kept jarring me awake. And then I saw her - coming out of the sun. And I knew why Whit didn't care about that 40 grand.

Out of the Past and In a Lonely Place are not only two of my favorite classic Film-Noirs but also two of my favorite films of all times and genres. Had them at 4th and 6th place on my list.

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/jfijewoZOn2ET2VsSaNoIVXjKM.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/kk9RU4kZJVLt5moY8yTbpeQYVhO.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/jCXeztl1uZyDzbqhPg8B6Zu4TNg.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/j1c3rwwB8SmZTPI3mufeWimRxTD.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/ezt6fb4JbghGKmaMzzuMtxpz0Kb.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/agM0xGwaziQodv405SGOhUTcnKS.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/aUzQZt2UlaurZ3wlhzVXQb6PQk8.jpg
3. The Narrow Margin (1952)
4. Out of the Past (1947)
5. Murder, My Sweet (1944)
6. In a Lonely Place (1950)
7. The Big Heat (1953)
8. Rebecca (1940)
9. Leave Her to Heaven (1945)

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/hNP8ikn0ixyv1DnsQNJhui9Xfu.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/2MQuJkwOYF9GL85ECKpVAoI5Hjk.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/2ZznfZdYGa8fGi3q9LBtoNRbKkB.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/zwZIOxxp4FuT7uv5SkG75k4eeYn.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/46eKPjoWEyNBAQKDoXEcDFBcaUw.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/xpZ64mUw5akvyWYD1060LAT6ohr.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/lLZ366NsPpcfjWmNFtH0KBtInfb.jpg
10. Bob Le Flambeur (1956)
11. The Breaking Point (1950)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
13. The Killing (1956)
14. Gilda (1946)
15. Notorious (1946)
17. The Wrong Man (1956)

https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/4nUuKmATbLpECcwzzl1ONwTVoCW.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/yUMQWsEkOZSVC6xg6rl3vRHalAg.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/2RcTYPzsR0QfN5d8g3HjIkIqcbg.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/zoexHMp5Qz5zm4tqkmQBnkkcvOC.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/uxE5LZP0RClXKsAqtrHQPiNLHzf.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/ovAn6MX1Oxs5GUBa3byvKCCYlea.jpg https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/qRRXuktpspL3czJrwsrcAcOVX5B.jpg
18. Night and the City (1950)
19. The Mob (1951) DNP
20. Kansas City Confidential (1952)
22. Laura (1944)
23. The Set-Up (1949)
24. I Walk Alone (1947) DNP
25. Kiss of Death (1947)

SpelingError

04-24-24, 09:55 AM

1. Double Indemnity
2. Sunset Boulevard
3. The Third Man
4. The Maltese Falcon
5. Touch of Evil

Sedai

04-24-24, 09:59 AM

The Third Man
The Maltese Falcon
Touch of Evil
Double Indemnity
Sunset Boulevard

stillmellow

04-24-24, 10:59 AM

The Third Man
The Maltese Falcon
Touch of Evil
Double Indemnity
Sunset Boulevard

Waits until teacher isn't looking. Copies answers from Sedai's test.

Citizen Rules

04-24-24, 11:30 AM

98715
#5 Touch of Evil (1958)

Director: Orson Welles
Production: Universal International Pictures
Cast: Charlton Heston, Orson Welles, Janet Leigh
596 Points, 36 Lists

'A stark, perverse story of murder, kidnapping and police corruption in a Mexican border town.'

_______________________________________

John-Connor

04-24-24, 11:32 AM

1. Double Indemnity
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. Sunset Boulevard
4. The Third Man
5. Touch of Evil

https://gifs.eco.br/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/gifs-de-poker-48.gif

Citizen Rules

04-24-24, 11:35 AM

1. Sunset Boulevard
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. The Third Man
4. Double Indemnity
5. Touch of Evil

1. Double Indemnity
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. Sunset Boulevard
4. The Third Man
5. Touch of Evil

1. Double Indemnity
2. Sunset Boulevard
3. The Third Man
4. The Maltese Falcon
5. Touch of Evil

Did you guys hack my computer and take a peak at the noir countdown list:D

Holden Pike

04-24-24, 11:35 AM

98716

Touch of Evil was #20 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1950s.

Allaby

04-24-24, 11:35 AM

Touch of Evil is good, but didn't quite make my ballot. I anticipate that three more films from my ballot will make the countdown.

Seen: 95/96

Holden Pike

04-24-24, 11:39 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unXWuFSxnWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lY5vyENLko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQIDkS3K4uo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niMGXhS28YI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-GyLsFFY28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c51dCY6oXUY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3krdeLKh6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIqMpePSLhk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4QMoBYcRiY

John W Constantine

04-24-24, 11:46 AM

I found Touch of Evil to be pretty good on a recent visit. Welles is arguably my favorite director but I enjoy his other works more. Worthy entry even if I wouldn't have placed it quite this high up.

Citizen Rules

04-24-24, 11:48 AM

My old review:

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=26579&stc=1&d=1471023072
Touch of Evil (Orson Welles 1958)

Marlene Dietrich once said of her time working with the great Orson Welles, ''People should cross themselves when they speak of him.'' Indeed, Orson was a genius and he shows his mastery of visual arts in his 1958 film noir, Touch of Evil.

The film's opening sequence goes down in the annuals of cinematography as one of the great camera shots of all time. We the audience, sees one long and uninterrupted tracking shot. Orson set the bar with this shot which latter would be duplicated by other film makers.

Originally Universal Pictures, the studio bank rolling the movie, wanted the film to be shot on a studio lot on constructed sets. But Orson would have none of that preferring to shoot in a real city. He decided to film almost exclusively at night, which gave him control over the production. Sadly, during post production editing, Orson was out of the country and so despite his objections, the film was cut up by the studio. A situation that ironically Orson complains about in the movie Ed Wood.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/8b84b0de10ba81b809ea21cf244201dd/tumblr_inline_npn2g7UcJF1swtpm9_540.jpg
Orson Welles as the corrupt Police Chief, Hank Quinlan

With the sole exception of Citizen Kane, Orson's feature films would all suffer the same indignation of being hacked up by the studios, thus destroying much of Welles' film vision and ultimately causing him to retreat from Hollywood, which robed us of what might have been a large canon of masterpieces by Welles.
When Orson Welles initially discovered the studio had cut his film in his absence, he fired off a detailed 58 page memo on how he wanted the film to be edited. The memo was presumed lost until found to be in the position of Charleston Heston, years latter. Universal Studios in 1998 gave it's OK and the once cut up film was restored to Welles ideas, giving the boy genius his film back.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=27709&stc=1&d=1478398989

One of the hallmarks of Touch of Evil is the cinematic idea Welles adopted after watching (and being confused by) another great film noir, The Big Sleep. Welles once stated his goal was to infuriate the audience with a closed-lip plot. He does that by keeping the audience in the dark as he shows us the events as they happen and at almost real time. We go along for the investigation and are told nothing of the back stories of the characters we encounter. Mike Vargas (Charlton Heston) is our proxy and we are kept as clueless as he is at the start of the film. Only as he begins to discover the truth, do we. Welles extenuates that feeling by use of many closeups and low angle camera shots, which makes us feel like we're a fly on the wall, listening in.

Welles chews the scenery in most films he appears in. Sometimes that doesn't work well, but like Kane, his characterization here helps give the film impact. I liked Charleston Heston in this, I think he makes a fine proxy for the audience as we go along for the ride at his side. Janet Leigh made a good victim! And woo hoo! We even get Zsa Zsa Gabor and the great Marlene Dietrich. I love Marlene's character in this film and she loved being in it and working with the master, Orson Welles.

rating_5

rauldc14

04-24-24, 11:50 AM

Touch of Evil was my 20.

seanc

04-24-24, 11:51 AM

Two of the top 5 were on my prelim list but shot way up into my own top 10 Noir with rewatches for the list. There were specific reasons that differed between the movies. For Touch Of Evil I believe it was the transfer I watched this viewing, which was my third. I really loved the look of the movie this time compared to the others.

What I have loved every viewing is the sweaty slimy atmosphere. This is, of course, exemplified perfectly by Welles character. I absolutely love him here, one of my favorite performances in Noir, or any movie for that matter, period. Chewing scenery goes one of two ways for me, and if I like the movie overall I eat a character like this up.

Touch Of Evil is a great one. Landed at 4 on my list.

Citizen Rules

04-24-24, 11:52 AM

Wow you guys read my review fast:D

John W Constantine

04-24-24, 12:08 PM

Wow you guys read my review fast:D

Read this post even faster.

Thief

04-24-24, 12:09 PM

Yeah, I figured this would be the next one. Touch of Evil was a recent watch for me so here is my full review (https://www.movieforums.com/reviews/2243555-touch_of_evil.html) and a bit of what I wrote:

Objectively speaking, this is a pretty good film. Welles does a great job both behind and in front of the camera. His Quinlan is certainly despicable, but still layered. There's so much thing that he does with his expressions and his stance that communicate so much. As for his direction, what can be said? From the impressive opening shot, you know you're in for a technical treat. He uses some techniques similar to the ones he used in Citizen Kane, low angle shots, pans and zooms, but he also manages to create a good deal of tension, especially regarding the fate of Vargas' wife, Susie (Janet Leigh).

So even though I have some issues with it, I think it is a pretty good film and most definitely noir. I had it at #19.

SEEN: 36/96
MY BALLOT: 21/25

1. Out of the Past (#7)
2.
3. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
4.
5.
6. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
7.
8. The Big Sleep (#8)
9. Ace in the Hole (#19)
10. Gilda (#27)
11. Criss Cross (#44)
12. Notorious (#20)
13. Laura (#10)
14. Detour (#24)
15. Mildred Pierce (#15)
16. In a Lonely Place (#6)
17. The Narrow Margin (#43)
18. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
19.
20. Gun Crazy (#36)
21. The Hitch-Hiker (#67)
22. The Killing (#11)
23. The Woman in the Window (#65)
24. D.O.A. (#54)
25. Kansas City Confidential (#53)

Thief

04-24-24, 12:31 PM

List facts!

Touch of Evil is Orson Welles' fourth entry in the countdown, after The Lady from Shanghai (#31), The Stranger (#38), and Mr. Arkadin, a.k.a. Confidential Report (#79).
Its IMDb rating of 8.0 is tied for the second highest, along with Out of the Past, Sweet Smell of Success, and The Night of the Hunter.

Sedai

04-24-24, 12:56 PM

Of course Touch of Evil was on my list at #7.

The now legendary opening scene is well-known, and showed the forward-thinking and inventive creativity and technical prowess of Orson Welles. His performance is also excellent. The blemish on this film for me is Heston, who is kind of over-the-top in places and is just basically being Charlton Heston. I don't dislike the guy, but he is not a favorite, either.

Still, the pros far outweigh the cons here, and it certainly belongs in the Top 10.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.rogerebert.com/uploads/review/primary_image/reviews/great-movie-touch-of-evil-1958/EB19980913REVIEWS08401010367AR.jpg

SpelingError

04-24-24, 01:51 PM

Touch of Evil was #3 on my ballot.

SpelingError

04-24-24, 01:52 PM

2) Out of the Past
3) Touch of Evil
4) In a Lonely Place
5) Night and the City
6. The Killing
7) The Night of the Hunter
8) White Heat
9) Detour
12) Shadow of a Doubt
13) Ace in the Hole
14) Gun Crazy
16) The Postman Always Rings Twice
18) The Stranger
19) Odd Man Out
21) Mildred Pierce
22) The Lost Weekend
23) Sweet Smell of Success
24) Crossfire
25) The Big Sleep

WHITBISSELL!

04-24-24, 01:56 PM

Really enjoyed Touch of Evil (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2144794#post2144794) the two times I've watched it. And so will you if you can look past Charlton Heston in brownface. That's actually not as big an obstacle as one would assume. The rewards of watching this master class in noir by director and costar Orson Welles outweigh any misgivings you might have. The cast is heavy with talent, any one of whom could star in their own movie. Marlene Dietrich. Janet Leigh. Akim Tamaroff. And Welles as the bloated and dissolute Captain Hank Quinlan definitely merits his own movie. ToE was my #4 pick.

62 of 96 seen so far.

WHITBISSELL!

04-24-24, 02:41 PM

Did you guys hack my computer and take a peak at the noir countdown list:DI had 3 (now 2) empty spaces on my list and all 3 titles appeared in everyone's guesses. I know a guy. :shifty:

https://media3.giphy.com/media/o0vwzuFwCGAFO/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952bvsf8eok0a7m8rinmglysd1tm2dx8gq9g0wgvi7k&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

1. Probably Top 5
2.Out of the Past (#7)
3. High Sierra (#50)
4. Touch of Evil (#5)
5. Ride the Pink Horse (#45)
6. Mystery Street (#93)
7. Gun Crazy (#36)
8. Night of the Hunter (#14)
9. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
10. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
11. Night and the City (#25)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (#13)
13. The Killing (#11)
14. Stray Dog (#32)
15. Strangers on a Train (#18)
16. Key Largo (#26)
17. You would think so but who knows?
18. Detour (#24)
19. The Narrow Margin (#43)
20. Kansas City Confidential (#53)
21. Where the Sidewalk Ends (#66)
22. Too Late for Tears (#81)
23. The Big Sleep (#8)
24. The Set-Up (#46)
25. House of Bamboo (3 votes, 18 points)

Harry Lime

04-24-24, 06:29 PM

I had Touch of Evil at #4. Excellent film with everything you would want in terms of style, mood, acting, and direction by the big guy himself.

3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
4. Touch of Evil (1958)
7. Notorious (1946)
8. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
9. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
10. Stray Dog (1949)
11. Mildred Pierce (1945)
12. In a Lonely Place (1950)
13. Detour (1945)
14. The Big Sleep (1946)
15. Bob le flambeur (1956)
16. The Killers (1946)
17. Rififi (1955)
18. The Killing (1956)
19. Strangers on a Train (1951)
20. Gilda (1946)
21. Pickup on South Street (1953)
22. Laura (1944)
23. White Heat (1949)
24. Out of the Past (1947)
25. Nightmare Alley (1947)

cricket

04-24-24, 08:04 PM

Touch of Evil was my #8

beelzebubble

04-24-24, 08:07 PM

Touch of Evil was not on my ballot.

beelzebubble

04-24-24, 08:13 PM

In a Lonely Place is # 20 on my list. Touch of Evil is not on my list. I will guess

The Third Man for tomorrow's reveal.

Citizen Rules

04-24-24, 08:44 PM

So the last time that I watched Touch of Evil was in the Film Noir IV HoF. I had thought it might be top 3 on my ballot but I didn't end up voting for it.

My write up for the HoF:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Hu90eyDqVAE%2FUCfYGli6SiI%2FAAAAAAAAKTo%2FtZhYuSyqkHU%2Fs400%2FWelles.%252BTouch%252Bof%252BEvil.%25 2Bpartners%252B1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=3b6861c8e4d9d687302c9607a0560b9de5f11a866e9dc86af1dd8ea40dba2434&ipo=images
Touch of Evil (1958)

That's a Welles shot if I've ever seen one. No, I don't mean the booze, I mean the composition, framing and camera angle. Subject in the foreground corner, the second subject diagonal in the opposite back corner...a low camera angle and a small f-stop on the camera lens for maximum depth of field yielding frame sharpness front to back. That screenshot I found is blurry, but the movie itself is magnificently filmed.

Film fans love the long, long, long tracking shot that opens the movie without an edit. The camera goes from ground level to high above the buildings as we follow a car loaded with dynamite and then switch to our hero Mike Vargas (Charlton Heston) and his lovely wife (Janet Leigh) as the couple walk down the streets of a border town on the U.S. side...Then boom.....and the car blows up so hard that the body of the car gets air born. Does Orson know how to impress our what!

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cineoutsider.com%2Freviews%2Fpix%2Ft%2Fto%2Ftouchofevl3.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=20b1d083320de2839e6e6627c6e03957aa78beb7250b288e23b146c0e8d2b24f&ipo=images

I could leave the review here and I would give the impression that my third watch of Touch of Evil was a 5/5. But as impressed as I was with the on-location shooting and the mastery of Welles' camera, I was taken out of the story by Orson himself. I found his Police Captain Hank Quinlan's character to be jarring. I could not take him seriously as it was like watching a caricature performed on stage. Probably not surprising as Orson was first and foremost a theater stage actor well versed in doing Shakespearean type heavy roles, he played those type of roles in a lot of his movies too. I found myself wishing Orson had staid behind the camera and hired Rod Steiger to play the corrupt police captain instead, I think that would've been ideal.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cineoutsider.com%2Freviews%2Fpix%2Ft%2Fto%2Ftouchofevl4.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=580a66e0fc310c2a0faf1bc6ee8c8349dddac18d7f9e5c5c3001db285be5ab20&ipo=images
Though even Orson was palatable compared to the foolish choice of using Dennis Weaver in the movie. Either Weaver needed to be directed to tone done his character or replaced with someone who could act, he's way too goofy to the point of being comical.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmoviegique.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F09%2Fimg_5baec813d209a.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=11b7893f59266953fd1dba050b81d9f1a20fe2e303e37eeb497a5d7d38ad003c&ipo=images

Janet Leigh while pretty and effective, has to be involved in the most harebrained actions. Unbelievable that the wife of a prosecuting official whose been battling a drug dealing Mexican family/cartel would willingly follow a strange man who claims to have a message for her husband, across the U.S. Mexican border, good grief. Also unbelievable that a police officer who's driving Mrs Vargas to a remote motel and discovers he's being tailed by the head of the Grandi drug family, goes ahead and drops off Mrs Vargas leaving her alone in the middle of nowhere...Come on Orson you can rewrite those two scenes better than that.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.filmkuratorium.de%2Ffilmk15-data%2Fakten%2Fscreenshots%2F2017%2F12%2Ftouch-of-evil-1958-charton-heston-med.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=21b0ecb9f4809e1c6126e663f57dfdc50f5d4d191343c62f2a7cd30b40289550&ipo=images

Marlene Dietrich was great but underused, I would've loved to have more airtime for her. For me Charlton Heston, brown face and all, was the stand out. Heston owns the role and the movie...He's one of my favorite actors and sadly doesn't get the respect as an actor that he deserves, not hard to guess why.

GulfportDoc

04-24-24, 08:53 PM

Touch of Evil pretty much brought to an end the classic era of noir. One could count Odds Against Tomorrow (1959), and that's a good noir, but it's as much a social message film.

I don't know how many times I've watched this great picture. The directing, the acting (especially Welles and Akim Tamiroff (as "Uncle Joe"), and the first rate cinematography by Russell Metty (The Stranger; Ride the Pink Horse) make this an innovative and memorable movie.

The opening long take was in 1958 the first I recall ever seeing, and it was impressive. I've seen the opening take with and without credits superimposed on the action, and I much prefer the version without the credits at that point. They should rightly be added in after the car explosion.

Presumably that version is from the 1998 re-editing done by Walter Murch, who followed Welles' archived lengthy notes on repairing the meddling edits of the original by brass at Universal International.

Touch of Evil is one of the great noirs. I had it at #12 on my list.

dadgumblah

04-24-24, 09:07 PM

Touch of Evil is classic Noir, no doubt, and here it's near the top where it belongs. I've only seen i twice, the first time concentrating on the story, the second time looking more at the technical aspects. And yet I feel like I still haven't totally engulfed the whole picture into my psyche. By that I mean that it's so great that I feel it requires more viewings to feel like you're not missing anything, so packed is it. It's definitely my favorite Orson Welles performance and I'm always down for a good Charlton Heston role. It's a total winner in any case. Not on my list. I knew it would place high so I'm glad it got where it is.

#1 The Killing List Proper #11
#2 The Asphalt Jungle List Proper #16
#3
#4 The Big Combo List Proper #52
#5 Pickup on South Street List Proper #23
#6 Kansas City Confidential List Proper #53
#7 The Big Sleep List Proper #8
#8 While the City Sleeps NM
#9 Lady in the Lake NM
#10 The Big Heat List Proper #17
#11 Kiss Me Deadly List Proper #13
#12 The Postman Always Rings Twice List Proper #23
#13 Murder, My Sweet List Proper #28
#14 Kiss of Death List Proper #59
#15 He Walked By Night List Proper #88
#16 The Naked City List Proper #60
#17 The Killers List Proper #22
#18 Detour List Proper #24
#19 The Glass Key NM
#20 Gun Crazy List Proper #36
#21 Impact NM
#22 This Gun For Hire List Proper #78
#23 The Narrow Margin List Proper #43
#24 Pitfall NM
#25 Crossfire List Proper #51

PHOENIX74

04-25-24, 12:20 AM

#5 Touch of Evil - I started my recent review of Touch of Evil by focusing on the character who Orson Welles completely disappears into, and who drives the movie forcefully into classic territory - "Police Captain Hank Quinlan (Orson Welles) is like a champion who can probably beat anyone he's up against, but still feels the need to cheat. He's morbidly obese, about to fall off the wagon, a racist and a narcissist. Add murderer to that list." This is simply a great story (the screenplay was written by Welles), and the only obvious flaw is the fact that Charlton Heston is playing a Mexican with the requisite make-up etc - I can understand that there were no Mexican actors who had as much box office draw, or clout, but it still feels really weird. Regardless, Touch of Evil is so exceptional it's flaws can't do much damage to it. Whether it's the original version, or the reconstruction based on Orson Welles' pleading memo to the studio messing around with it, we're looking at pure filmmaking genius having a moment of renewed inspiration. I've seen it a few times over the years, and it's one that always seems to get better and better every time I see it. I had it at #8 on my ballot - which makes 7 in a row reveals I voted for.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen : 34/96
I'd never even heard of : 47/96
Movies that had been on my radar, but I haven't seen yet : 15/96
Films from my list : 22

#5 - My #8 - Touch of Evil
#6 - My #3 - In a Lonely Place (1950)
#7 - My #7 - Out of the Past (1947)
#8 - My #6 - The Big Sleep (1946)
#9 - My #9 - Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
#10 - My #24 - Laura (1944)
#11 - My #13 - The Killing (1956)
#13 - My #4 - Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
#14 - My #10 - The Night of the Hunter (1955)
#16 - My #15 - The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
#21 - My #17 - Pickup on South Street (1953)
#24 - My #20 - Detour (1945)
#27 - My #14 - Gilda (1946)
#28 - My #11 - Murder, My Sweet (1944)
#31 - My #25 - The Lady From Shanghai (1947)
#33 - My #22 - Nightmare Alley (1947)
#36 - My #16 - Gun Crazy (1950)
#44 - My #19 - Criss Cross (1949)
#54 - My #12 - D.O.A. (1950)
#58 - My #23 - The Breaking Point (1950)
#61 - My #21 - Act of Violence (1949)
#67 - My #18 - The Hitch-Hiker (1953)

Iroquois

04-25-24, 03:34 AM

had touch of evil at #9.

CosmicRunaway

04-25-24, 03:57 AM

I'm only now realizing that I missed House of Bamboo's inclusion when I first saw the list of near misses. I watched it in preparation for the Countdown, and in doing so realized I had seen a large chunk of it before. It has some great cinematography, and it feels very novel to watch a film noir in full colour. It was #10 on my list.

Touch of Evil was on my ballot as well at #23. I don't really have much to say about it, and I'm about to late for work, so please enjoy this gif of a grumpy looking Welles in lieu of any elaboration.

Seen: 42/96

My List: 20
01. Laura (1944) - #10
02.
03. Stranger on the Third Floor (1940) - #92
04. Murder My Sweet (1944) - #28
05. Shadow of a Doubt (1943) - #12
06. Detour (1945) - #24
07. Rebecca (1940) - #35
08. Ministry of Fear (1944) - #75
09. The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (1946) - #40
10. House of Bamboo (1945) - DNP
11. This Gun for Hire (1942) - #78
12. Mildred Pierce (1945) - #15
13. Odd Man Out (1947) - #47
14. The Big Sleep (1946) - #8
15. Strangers on a Train (1951) - #18
16.
17. The Asphalt Jungle (1950) - #16
18. Night and the City (1950) - #25
19. Phantom Lady (1944) - #69
20. The Hidden Room/Obsession (1949) - DNP
21.
22. The Killing (1956) - #11
23. Touch of Evil (1958) - #5
24. Kiss Me Deadly (1955) - #14
25. The Stranger (1946) - #38

https://64.media.tumblr.com/846b00f4ff29715c338e177567c2df80/f856635b0a604c91-2e/s500x750/1089d56ba9a62cf59a2565e5f5273595340d70a6.gifv

Citizen Rules

04-25-24, 11:16 AM

98737
#4 The Third Man (1946)

Director: Carol Reed
Production: London Film Productions
Cast: Orson Welles, Joseph Cotten, Alida Valli
731 Points, 40 Lists

'Pulp novelist Holly Martins travels to shadowy, postwar Vienna, only to find himself investigating the mysterious death of an old friend, Harry Lime.'

_______________________________________

Holden Pike

04-25-24, 11:20 AM

98738

The Third Man was #2 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1940s, #49 on the original MoFo Top 100, and #48 on the MoFo Top 100 Refresh.

Citizen Rules

04-25-24, 11:20 AM

The Third Man is one of my favorite Orson Welles performances along with Citizen Kane and Jane Eyre. Of course Joseph Cotton is the lead and works well with Welles, having been one of Orson's Mercury Players going back to Welles pre film days. Very impressive movie visually, I liked the story too but damn if that zither score doesn't drive me crazy. Deserved to be on the countdown of course, just not a personal favorite.

John-Connor

04-25-24, 11:21 AM

1. Double Indemnity
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. Sunset Boulevard
4. The Third Man
5. Touch of Evil

https://y.yarn.co/936adde9-b9e2-4eef-be6e-38ce4a3e488e_text.gif

Allaby

04-25-24, 11:21 AM

The Third Man is good, but didn't make my ballot.

Seen: Seen: 96/97

Torgo

04-25-24, 11:33 AM

The Third Man is my easy #1. It's one of the few movies I think achieves perfection.

John W Constantine

04-25-24, 11:35 AM

I believe I had that @ no.2

Just looking at the ingredients one could figure out it delivers the goods.

Iroquois

04-25-24, 11:37 AM

also had it at #2.

Holden Pike

04-25-24, 11:38 AM

Whatever the order turns out to be, Sunset Boulevard, Double Indemnity, and The Maltese Falcon is a very strong, legit Top Three for any Classic Film Noir list.

Proud of you, MoFo.

Thief

04-25-24, 11:54 AM

I loooove The Third Man. It's a film that I had some reservations when I first saw, but with every viewing, I just appreciate it more and more. I've seen it a handful of times and I now think it's marvelous. From the perfect use of the Vienna setting to Orson Welles' iconic performance, and how about that ending? Probably one of my favorite endings ever. I had it at #2. Amazing film.

SEEN: 37/97
MY BALLOT: 22/25

1. Out of the Past (#7)
2. The Third Man (#4)
3. Sweet Smell of Success (#9)
4.
5.
6. Shadow of a Doubt (#12)
7.
8. The Big Sleep (#8)
9. Ace in the Hole (#19)
10. Gilda (#27)
11. Criss Cross (#44)
12. Notorious (#20)
13. Laura (#10)
14. Detour (#24)
15. Mildred Pierce (#15)
16. In a Lonely Place (#6)
17. The Narrow Margin (#43)
18. The Asphalt Jungle (#16)
19.
20. Gun Crazy (#36)
21. The Hitch-Hiker (#67)
22. The Killing (#11)
23. The Woman in the Window (#65)
24. D.O.A. (#54)
25. Kansas City Confidential (#53)

Little Ash

04-25-24, 12:08 PM

The Third Man was my #6 and Touch of Evil was my #7.
I've watched the latter only once, decades ago, but certain scenes still stick in my head, and it's just a damn good movie. I find myself revisiting The Third Man more often and sticks out in my head as a movie used as an example of something* in an intro existentialist philosophy class I once listened to the podcast of, which then in turn influences how I view Miller's Crossing.

*: Can't remember the term, but Kierkegaard, on the subject of the various ways we respond to the thing we consider the most important thing in our existence, when reality doesn't rationally match-up/etc. In this case it was Anna's love for Harry Lime, and then having to deal with finding out that Harry had done, well, what Harry has done.

Miss Vicky

04-25-24, 12:11 PM

I liked The Third Man and would have voted for it.

stillmellow

04-25-24, 12:11 PM

Well, there goes my top 5 guess. *tears tickets in half*.

Touch of Evil is my #12, and the Third Man is #2. Two fantastic Noir movies. Touch of Evil falters a little here and there, but Third Man is damn close to perfection. My favorite Orson Welles performance, no question.

Thief

04-25-24, 12:23 PM

List facts!

The Third Man is Carol Reed's second entry in the countdown, after Odd Man Out (#47).
Its IMDb rating of 8.1 is tied for the highest, along with Ace in the Hole, White Heat, Rebecca, and Rififi.
The 135-point gap between Touch of Evil and The Third Man is currently the highest from both countdowns.

WHITBISSELL!

04-25-24, 01:08 PM

The Third Man was my #1. It might be my all-time favorite film. One might think it's myriad little quirks wouldn't gel into such an absorbing narrative. But the setting, the pitch perfect casting and performances and that Anton Karas soundtrack make for a singular experience. If you've seen it you won't need convincing about it's distinctiveness and the proficiency of the storytelling. If you haven't, then sit back and hopefully it'll have the same effect on you it's had on so many others.

63 of 97 seen so far.

seanc

04-25-24, 01:14 PM

Third Man was my 3. Brings the Cotten, brings the Welles, brings the zither. Love at first viewing. My top 3 could all be 1 on another day. They are the 3 Noirs I think of when I think of the genre, and all in my 100.

Citizen Rules

04-25-24, 01:19 PM

Sometimes I feel like the anti-mofo:eek:

SpelingError

04-25-24, 01:42 PM

The Third Man was #15 on my ballot.

SpelingError

04-25-24, 01:45 PM

2) Out of the Past
3) Touch of Evil
4) In a Lonely Place
5) Night and the City
6. The Killing
7) The Night of the Hunter
8) White Heat
9) Detour
12) Shadow of a Doubt
13) Ace in the Hole
14) Gun Crazy
15) The Third Man
16) The Postman Always Rings Twice
18) The Stranger
19) Odd Man Out
21) Mildred Pierce
22) The Lost Weekend
23) Sweet Smell of Success
24) Crossfire
25) The Big Sleep

Sedai

04-25-24, 01:56 PM

Ah, finally. When I submitted my ballot, I had done some waffling back and forth on how to rank a couple of my top films, deciding on whether or not to put a favorite in second, or a film I thought to be one of the most quintessential and legendary noirs of all time. They both actually qualified for the latter, but I think The Third Man perhaps does so more. I ended up with The Third Man at #2 and putting The Big Sleep at #3, even though I like The Big Sleep a bit more. Today, I feel like I should have just gone with my favorite film instead, but it wouldn't have mattered much.

The Third Man is a film with such a strong artistic presence and style, that it makes you aware of it in pretty much every frame. Its rich shadows absorb you into the proceedings. Someone above said it comes close to being a perfect film, and it's hard to argue, unless you don't like the zither, eh Citizen? ;)

https://i0.wp.com/newspack-berkeleyside-cityside.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/The-Third-Man-courtesy-of-Studiocanal-05.jpg?resize=720%2C514&ssl=1

I figured out my top 3 for this countdown almost instantly, and none of the viewings of films I hadn't yet seen came close to changing my mind. There are several legendary film noirs that are just that much better than all the rest, and The Third Man is one of them.

https://lwlies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/the-third-man-review.jpg

John W Constantine

04-25-24, 02:14 PM

Sometimes I feel like the anti-mofo:eek:
You like to be different.

Citizen Rules

04-25-24, 02:18 PM

You like to be different.I do!

Torgo

04-25-24, 02:22 PM

Those of you who put The Third Man as third on your ballot did it for the lulz, didn't you?

https://i.postimg.cc/V6FmRtH3/im-on-to-you.gif

Little Ash

04-25-24, 02:27 PM

Those of you who put The Third Man as third on your ballot did it for the lulz, didn't you?

https://i.postimg.cc/V6FmRtH3/im-on-to-you.gif

Damn, I should have done that and made Ace in the Hole my #1. Make Double Indemnity my #2.

What would be #4?

Torgo

04-25-24, 02:32 PM

Damn, I should have done that and made Ace in the Hole my #1. Make Double Indemnity my #2.

What would be #4?The 4th Man. It would be marked ineligible since it came out in '83, but it would be worth it.

honeykid

04-25-24, 03:22 PM

Sometimes I feel like the anti-mofo:eek:
You're aware I exist, right? :D

I had Touch Of Evil at #12.

Harry Lime

04-25-24, 03:25 PM

I love The Third Man and had it at #1! Obviously. I mean I've only based my entire (Mofo) personality on the film. Every aspect is perfect and those of you that don't like the zither can just zither off!

1. The Third Man (1949)
3. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
4. Touch of Evil (1958)
7. Notorious (1946)
8. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
9. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
10. Stray Dog (1949)
11. Mildred Pierce (1945)
12. In a Lonely Place (1950)
13. Detour (1945)
14. The Big Sleep (1946)
15. Bob le flambeur (1956)
16. The Killers (1946)
17. Rififi (1955)
18. The Killing (1956)
19. Strangers on a Train (1951)
20. Gilda (1946)
21. Pickup on South Street (1953)
22. Laura (1944)
23. White Heat (1949)
24. Out of the Past (1947)
25. Nightmare Alley (1947)

Sedai

04-25-24, 03:50 PM

Continuing along with my rectifications, I watched In a Lonely Place last night.

As expected, this was excellent, and most likely would have made my list if I had seen it before the deadline. That said, it probably would have landed on the back half of my ballot, as it didn't contain enough of the stylistic elements that really draw me to the style. Both leads were fantastic, and I enjoyed the exploration of Dix's animus. Gloria Grahame was a knockout in this one, also.

https://peterburnett.info/images/film_stills/noir4/lonely_place_10.JPG

Harry Lime

04-25-24, 04:30 PM

Right on, Sedai. Glad you liked it.

beelzebubble

04-25-24, 04:31 PM

I am very excited because I guessed correctly! The Third Man should be at the top. But I put it second in order to put a lesser, but beloved noir higher on the list, that being D.O.A.
As you all suggested, I shall guess Double Indemnity as tomorrow's reveal of #2?

Holden Pike

04-25-24, 04:34 PM

As you all suggested, I shall guess Double Indemnity as tomorrow's reveal of #2?
The Third Man was #4 on the collective list. Tomorrow #3 will be revealed and on Saturday #1 and #2 are revealed together.

CosmicRunaway

04-25-24, 04:43 PM

The Third Man has a lot going for it, and its cinematography alone could've earned it a much higher place on my ballot if it wasn't for that comical score that drags the entire film down for me. It still made my list at #16, and it definitely deserves to place high on this Countdown, but I can't help but imagine how much more atmospheric the film could be with a completely different soundtrack.

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=63826

The Third Man (1949)
Directed by: Carol Reed
Starring: Joseph Cotten, Alida Valli, Trevor Howard

The Third Man deals with betrayal and corruption in a city still visibly scarred and divided after the war. There's an almost cyclical nature to the film as well, with similar scenes near the beginning and end that ultimately produce a rather cynical outlook on the future. It's also clever in that viewers who don't know German may feel as lost as Holly does during his conversations with the locals, however audiences who do speak the language hear lines of fear and distrust from a population that is quick to bring up his status as a foreigner and outsider.

While the camera doesn't move very frequently, it's often tilted slightly on its side. These Dutch angles help to generate discomfort and act as a visual representation of Holly's alienation, but they would've been far more effective had they been used sparingly. The cinematography is otherwise brilliant, with fantastic lighting, and impressive shadow work. That iconic chase sequence in the sewers is cleverly shot, but for me, Welles' perfectly framed entrance is the highlight of the film. Welles has fairly minimal screen time, but he always leaves a huge impact.

There is only one thing that holds The Third Man back, and unfortunately its the score. If it were played on any other instrument it might've been fine, but the sounds of the zither were so discordant with what was happening on screen that it was often comical. I wish I could watch this film devoid of its soundtrack, because many scenes were completely drained of tension by music that elicited imagery of calm, tropical beaches. Luckily the film ends on a fantastic note, and I'm glad that Reed fought for that ending, rather than sticking to the one Greene originally envisioned.

I wrote that when the film was nominated in the 3rd Noir HoF, and my opinion hasn't changed since. If at any point in the future I change my mind about the film's soundtrack, take that as a sign that I've been replaced by a phony haha.

Seen: 43/97

My List: 21
01. Laura (1944) - #10
02.
03. Stranger on the Third Floor (1940) - #92
04. Murder My Sweet (1944) - #28
05. Shadow of a Doubt (1943) - #12
06. Detour (1945) - #24
07. Rebecca (1940) - #35
08. Ministry of Fear (1944) - #75
09. The Strange Love of Martha Ivers (1946) - #40
10. House of Bamboo (1945) - DNP
11. This Gun for Hire (1942) - #78
12. Mildred Pierce (1945) - #15
13. Odd Man Out (1947) - #47
14. The Big Sleep (1946) - #8
15. Strangers on a Train (1951) - #18
16. The Third Man (1949) - #4
17. The Asphalt Jungle (1950) - #16
18. Night and the City (1950) - #25
19. Phantom Lady (1944) - #69
20. The Hidden Room/Obsession (1949) - DNP
21.
22. The Killing (1956) - #11
23. Touch of Evil (1958) - #5
24. Kiss Me Deadly (1955) - #14
25. The Stranger (1946) - #38

https://64.media.tumblr.com/86265eafdbef7e1124126faedd4c550b/6afc265f47925d49-af/s540x810/5045deb4712359e420ea3307fb9524936e12c0b8.gifv

John-Connor

04-25-24, 04:45 PM

98744
Earlier on I praised Hitchcock for his silhouette and shadow cinematography/ photography. But The Third Man takes it to another level. I had this in the 'doesn't need my points' section on my list at 21.

3. The Narrow Margin (1952)
4. Out of the Past (1947)
5. Murder, My Sweet (1944)
6. In a Lonely Place (1950)
7. The Big Heat (1953)
8. Rebecca (1940)
9. Leave Her to Heaven (1945)
10. Bob Le Flambeur (1956)
11. The Breaking Point (1950)
12. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
13. The Killing (1956)
14. Gilda (1946)
15. Notorious (1946)
17. The Wrong Man (1956)
18. Night and the City (1950)
19. The Mob (1951) DNP
20. Kansas City Confidential (1952)
21. The Third Man (1949)
22. Laura (1944)
23. The Set-Up (1949)
24. I Walk Alone (1947) DNP
25. Kiss of Death (1947)

cricket

04-25-24, 04:49 PM

The Third Man was my #5

seanc

04-25-24, 04:56 PM

Everyone voted for Third Man but the host. What kind of counter culture hipster did we let run this thing?

Holden Pike

04-25-24, 05:01 PM

I didn't vote for it.

beelzebubble

04-25-24, 06:05 PM

The Third Man was #4 on the collective list. Tomorrow #3 will be revealed and on Saturday #1 and #2 are revealed together.
Doh! As per usual I am posting on the fly at work so I am always getting the details wrong.

Thursday Next

04-25-24, 06:10 PM

The Third Man was my #4.

Thief

04-25-24, 06:12 PM

You MoFos are all twisted. The Third Man ended up at #4?? Seven ended up at #6? I mean, what's next? Dogs and cats living together?

dadgumblah

04-25-24, 06:31 PM

I'm right there with you, Citizen Rules---while I appreciate the filmmaking style, acting, and writing of The Third Man, I hated the zither music that was practically in every scene, no matter what was going on. Yes, I get it, zither music was very popular in Vienna! Don't shove it down my throat! I cannot deny the excellence of everything else in the film but the obtrusive zither keeps me from ever watching the film again. Oh well.

#1 The Killing List Proper #11
#2 The Asphalt Jungle List Proper #16
#3
#4 The Big Combo List Proper #52
#5 Pickup on South Street List Proper #23
#6 Kansas City Confidential List Proper #53
#7 The Big Sleep List Proper #8
#8 While the City Sleeps NM
#9 Lady in the Lake NM
#10 The Big Heat List Proper #17
#11 Kiss Me Deadly List Proper #13
#12 The Postman Always Rings Twice List Proper #23
#13 Murder, My Sweet List Proper #28
#14 Kiss of Death List Proper #59
#15 He Walked By Night List Proper #88
#16 The Naked City List Proper #60
#17 The Killers List Proper #22
#18 Detour List Proper #24
#19 The Glass Key NM
#20 Gun Crazy List Proper #36
#21 Impact NM
#22 This Gun For Hire List Proper #78
#23 The Narrow Margin List Proper #43
#24 Pitfall NM
#25 Crossfire List Proper #51

WHITBISSELL!

04-25-24, 06:56 PM

I felt the same way about the zither music when I first watched it but then it grew on me. To the point where I feel it wouldn't be the same film watching experience if they replaced it with something more conventional. It's a complete package and that admittedly oddball soundtrack is an indispensable part. Just listen to it. I've grown to love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oEsWi88Qv0

dadgumblah

04-25-24, 06:58 PM

Harry Lime

04-25-24, 07:06 PM

Yoda should autoplay it whenever anyone visits the site. But something tells me he would never do that.

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=98746

Harry Lime

04-25-24, 07:24 PM

I feel the music adds considerably to the quality of the film and does not detract. There is the obvious contrast between the new post-war and old world Europe. The juxtaposition of this upbeat and lighthearted music and the subject and events of the film. Harry Lime himself as a friendly and jovial fellow on the outside but in reality he's amoral and has done some pretty awful things. A lot of the world is like this. Zither on!

GulfportDoc

04-25-24, 07:49 PM

GulfportDoc

04-25-24, 08:02 PM

The Third Man (1949)

Producer Alex Korda had sent British novelist Graham Greene to Vienna after WWII to conceive and write a screenplay which would capture the wantonness and treacherous times in the post war-torn city. After much research Green developed a screenplay, The Third Man, the novelization of which was published following the film’s highly popular reception.

The opening monologue over depicted scenes of the war-changed city, and how it was divided up into policing sectors by the Allies, set the dynamic expectant mood. Holly Martins, an American pulp western writer, has been invited to come to Vienna by his old friend Harry Lime, who has promised Martins a job. Unfortunately upon arrival Martins learns that Lime has been killed in a pedestrian auto accident. Martins soon suspects that there has been some foul play after inquiring about the incident with some of Lime’s associates, physician, girlfriend, and the porter where Lime resided.

Lime suddenly appears in the flesh, and eventually meets with his old friend. The truth comes out about Lime’s nefarious deadly black market schemes which had resulted in many innocent deaths. A British Major Calloway convinces Martins to help snare Lime, who has agreed to meet again with Martins and Lime’s girlfriend Anna Schmidt. On his arrival Anna warns Lime who flees to the city’s mammoth sewer system. The police lead by the Calloway and Martins chase Lime, who is ultimately shot.

This film is as close to perfection as one could imagine. Everyone involved in the production was at their finest: co-producers Alex Korda and David O. Selznik, Director Carol Reed, cinematographer Robert Krasker, musician Anton Karas, every single actor in the cast, and the phenomenal editing by Oswald Hafenrichter.

Reed had brought with him both Krasker and Hafenrichter who had worked with him on Odd Man Out, and The Fallen Idol respectively. With these men Reed captured the deepest essence of noir darkness and design, never to be outdone in film to this day. Although Reed had three crews working simultaneously (one each for night, sewer system, and day shooting), it was the impressive night framing, glistening cobblestone streets, back alleys, ubiquitous rubble, and foreboding mood that he captured so palpably.

Each actor was perfect. When David O. Selznik agreed to join as co-producer he brought along Joseph Cotten and Orson Welles to fill the roles of Holly Martins and Harry Lime,originally written as British characters. Also under contract to him was the ravishing Alida Valli, who was being promoted by Selznik as the next Ingrid Bergman. Some of Germany’s finest actors were enlisted: Paul Hoerbiger, Ernst Deutsch, Erich Ponto, and the fiesty Hedwig Bleitreu as a landlady.

It’s hard to imagine the impact of this picture without the phenomenal score by zither artist Anton Karas. In a happy accident, Reed heard Karas play at a party, and was galvanized by the sound and its relevance to the story and mood of Reed’s picture. He practically hired Karas on the spot to fashion the sole music track, and brought him to London to overdub the music during a 6 week session-- the same amount of time used for the entire Viennese shoot. Never has a score representedthe style of a film, and in this case the era of mid 20thCentury Vienna, more exquisitely than didKaras’ stylings. It evokes the gamut of emotions from nostalgic, to haunting, to lively, to humorous. And its use was unique in film as being a single instrument without vocals. The only other score that comes close is David Shire’s eerie piano score for Coppola’s The Conversation.

The film includes two of the most famous scenes in movie history: Harry Lime’s electrifying first entrance into the film by suddenly shining a night time spotlight onWelles, framing him in a doorway displaying his sardonic and whimsical smile with hat askew; and possibly the most iconic ending in film history-- after Lime’s funeral, as Anna takes the long walk back to town on the autumn leaf strewn lane, she walks straight past Martins, who had beenleaning on a wagon waiting to reconcile with her. Rebuffed, Martins lights a cigarette, then throws down the match in disgust. The screen goes to black.

Books and countless articles and lectures have been written about The Third Man. The British Film Institute selected it as the #1 film in their list of top 100 British films. In my view it’s one of the best films ever made.

I had it at #11 on my noir list.