View Full Version : Music! What makes your blood boil?
Kiwi1960
02-09-18, 09:12 PM
So I posted in the noobs area as you do, seeing as I'm new here, and mentioned I liked music, but mainly Big band swing from the 30's to 40's, the Rock and Roll of the 50's and much of the 60's... but not much after that...
One person disagreed with me that the 70's onwards wasn't good music... Yes, I do like Rod Stewart for example, Sailing... but I hold up... PUNK ROCK.... and HEAVY METAL as two examples why what is produced today isn't really music, but noise.... PUNK is performed by people who cannot sing, hold a tune OR play an instrument... right?
So, here is my list of music to get my blood boiling OR calming my blood down... TWO examples, for each decade, for each mood....
1930's Get my blood pumping... IN THE MOOD.... a calm me down piece of music... MOONLIGHT SERENADE...
1940's (because of WW2) The Marines Hymn to make my blood boil... inspiring music... Don't Fence Me In (Roy Rogers 1945) to sort of calm me down....
1950's... THIS DECADE IS WAY TO COMPLICATED!
1960's To fire me up, SINK THE BISMARCK by Johnny Horton ... to calm me down, PEACE IN THE VALLEY by Elvis....
But its not that simple.... Amazing Grace depending on the version and who sings it, can fire me up or calm me down. The Apache version of Amazing Grace (youtube) is ... fantastic.
But I also like Classical, Beethoven's 5th for example, can fire me up, or Wagners "Ride of the Valkyries" ... Land of Hope and Glory... *ANY WELSH MUSIC" especially those connected with the Welsh and the Armed forces....
Movie themes can fire me up, the Battle Of Britain theme... Super man theme...
But then, mellow music... to calm me down... "I love you because" Jim Reeves, Love me tender by Elvis....
And then there is the music that makes me cry... a damned good version of Amazing Grace on video to honor the war dead.... or "The Last Post" or (in the USA) "Taps"....
And, music that makes me laugh. HAIL TO THE CHIEF because whenever I hear that and see trump, I hear it as "Hail to the Thief" :)
Now, I want to hear what music makes YOUR blood boil, what calms you down... and ... whatever... multiple decades so there is variety....I feel yo can tell a great deal about a person and the music they like.
I told you about my self, now, you tell me about yourself....
**BTW... what my music tell you about me is that I am a big old softy when it comes to music, but don't cross me, I can play a war theme in my head while I'm taking down an unpatriotic person (like a Neo Nazi which I did, a few hours ago, online....)
resopamenic
02-09-18, 09:28 PM
Not this appeal of antiquity again. But i'd seen some more xtreme case for liking weimar replubic music or early 1900s jazz
gbgoodies
02-10-18, 02:39 AM
Kiwi1960, I agree with you about today's music. I hate heavy metal, punk, hard rock, rap, etc. I prefer older, and mostly slower music. I listen mostly to country music, easy listening, and showtunes, but also some soft rock like Air Supply. The closest I get to rock music is artists like Billy Joel, Journey, etc.
I think that music should be calm and relaxing. It shouldn't be loud and banging, and it shouldn't give you a headache. You should be able to sit back, close your eyes, listen to the music, and just relax.
Some of my favorite easy listening artists are Neil Diamond, Michael Bublé, John Barrowman, Michael Ball, Harry Connick Jr., and Michael Crawford. Some of my favorite country artists are George Strait, Ricky Van Shelton, Don Williams, Jim Reeves, Eddy Arnold, Randy Travis, and Reba McEntire.
The song that calms me down when things go wrong is Eddy Arnold - Make The World Go Away. If Hubby comes home and hears that song playing, he knows that I had a bad day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3caNwl4EtE
matt72582
02-10-18, 11:12 AM
I love the 60s and 70s.. Lately, I've been trying to find some underrated/unknown artists/bands from that time, and YouTube is a nice help.. If anyone has recommendations, or wants them, let me know :)
(in this order)
Pink Floyd, Supertramp, The Doors, Beatles , zeppelin, who, steely dan, ELO, America, Eagles, David Bowie, Three Dog Night, Fleetwood Mac, Black Sabbath, Neil Young, Marley, Stylistics, Stones, Hendrix, Elton John, Billy Joel, Delfonics, Jefferson Airplane, Alan Parsons Project, Cream, Genesis (Peter Gabriel era), Dire Straits, Queen, Jethro Tull, Wings, CSNY, Bee Gees, The Police, Rush, Carpenters, ABBA, Sixto Rodriguez, etc.
Thursday Next
02-10-18, 12:08 PM
I don't think either punk or heavy metal are exactly today's music... they had their day decades ago. It's all grime these days.
You don't need to listen to what is popular. Every type of music is made every year. People who gripe about today's music are really close minded.
Mr Minio
02-10-18, 12:29 PM
what is produced today isn't really music, but noise.... Nope. This is noise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR_8gpJCT4I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brPzGMDfMgk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ygSGgTi7Xs
As you can see heavy metal and punk rock are quite tame in comparison. Plus the last album is from 1989, so you can't really call it new. F*ck me, that Hanatarash album is good, gotta rate it on RYM.
Besides, if you can't find beauty in this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UmGDeZZLRs
You're just a dried cucumber.
PUNK is performed by people who cannot sing, hold a tune OR play an instrument... right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxS8NhWA41Q
I think that music should be calm and relaxing. It shouldn't be loud and banging, and it shouldn't give you a headache. You should be able to sit back, close your eyes, listen to the music, and just relax. That's another narrow-mided thought. Sure, if you like mellow, relaxing music, that's fine. I do, too. However, saying all music should be like this is too much. The true beauty of music is its variety. There's the relaxing stuff, the sexy stuff, the banging stuff, the brutal stuff, every kind has its place and can be enjoyed given the person is open-minded.
Miss Vicky
02-10-18, 12:33 PM
That's another narrow-mided thought. Sure, if you like mellow, relaxing music, that's fine. I do, too. However, saying all music should be like this is too much. The true beauty of music is its variety. There's the relaxing stuff, the sexy stuff, the banging stuff, the brutal stuff, every kind has its place and can be enjoyed given the person is open-minded.
:eek:
I agree with Mr. Minio about something! What is the world coming to?!
resopamenic
02-10-18, 12:47 PM
You're just a dried cucumberhttps://youtu.be/W3rVoFLUZOM
Mr Minio
02-10-18, 12:53 PM
I agree with Mr. Minio about something! What is the world coming to?! The end of the world is nigh.
https://youtu.be/W3rVoFLUZOM Is this chocolate's flavour cucumber, though?
resopamenic
02-10-18, 01:11 PM
I agree with Mr. Minio about something! What is the world coming to?! The end of the world is nigh.
https://youtu.be/W3rVoFLUZOM Is this chocolate's flavour cucumber, though?e.. Asparagus?
https://youtu.be/N4Brd0UkW94
Mr Minio
02-10-18, 01:25 PM
https://youtu.be/N4Brd0UkW94 I love A-Chan.
Ugh. Not this close-minded sh*t again.
PUNK is performed by people who cannot sing, hold a tune OR play an instrument... right?
Wrong. Please feel free to google Gregg Ginn, Captain Sensible, Billy Zoom, Johnny Ramone, Steve Jones, Johnny Thunders, Ron Asheton, etc...
You don't need to listen to what is popular. Every type of music is made every year. People who gripe about today's music are really close minded.
I gripe about today's "hip hop" r/b and pop music..that's been getting worse for decades imo..but yeah..a little excavating and it's amazing what music is still coming out. Great stuff out there.
Iroquois
02-10-18, 08:50 PM
OP certainly has a strange definition of blood-boiling. I was thinking of stuff that pisses you off with how bad it is.
matt72582
02-10-18, 08:52 PM
So I posted in the noobs area as you do, seeing as I'm new here, and mentioned I liked music, but mainly Big band swing from the 30's to 40's, the Rock and Roll of the 50's and much of the 60's... but not much after that...
One person disagreed with me that the 70's onwards wasn't good music... Yes, I do like Rod Stewart for example, Sailing... but I hold up... PUNK ROCK.... and HEAVY METAL as two examples why what is produced today isn't really music, but noise.... PUNK is performed by people who cannot sing, hold a tune OR play an instrument... right?
I think that's another problem - production, or lack-of... Auto-tune (you don't even need to be in tune anymore!), drum-machines (?), computer programs, phone apps.. It's not just music, either.. If you take the humanity out of art, you are stuck with a bad product that lasts for about 5 minutes.
Iroquois
02-10-18, 09:17 PM
By that logic, does that mean that animated movies aren't really movies either?
And why did Blender go under. I miss Blender. There was hope when Blender was around, as glossy as it was, and as bad as some of the teenage writers were...and Spin, forget it. Spin hasn't been good since The White Stripes and Cody Chestnutt were the newest in new.
Auto-tune (you don't even need to be in tune anymore!
People who say this have no idea how autotune actually works. You can't sing like sh*t and expect an autotune program to completely fix it. It doesn't work like that.
Iro, not sure if you were wafting in my direction, my apologies if not, but animated movies are definitely movies...cgi, too...movies are allowed to suck.
I've loved some animated films like StreetFight and Light Years, as well as CGI ones like Monster House...
but back to music....music that gets my blood boiling in a positive way..let me throw a few examples out...I like elements of music, not necessarily the entire arrangement...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jGdJw5SbWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ2oXzrnti4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UtqoUvg0lk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5MqXPYE2P4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-zP66eSLto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLCz_jWi1Uc
Mesmerized
02-10-18, 09:32 PM
'60s and '70s pop and psychedelic rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ul_eiDQy68
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RghL1rViX34
People who say this have no idea how autotune actually works. You can't sing like sh*t and expect an autotune program to completely fix it. It doesn't work like that.
I know how it works. I've used melodyne to sometimes fix impossible days when my voice is just not keeping steady. He may have been referring to modern hip hop bull ish that uses it like a robot clearing its throat, using its finger to jiggle the adam's apple, lol
hate it
I'm not a fan of autotune myself, but that is merely personal taste and I'm fine with it's existence. Musicians should be able to do whatever the hell they want.
Iroquois
02-10-18, 09:37 PM
Iro, not sure if you were wafting in my direction, my apologies if not, but animated movies are definitely movies...cgi, too...movies are allowed to suck.
I've loved some animated films like StreetFight and Light Years, as well as CGI ones like Monster House...
It was more aimed at matt72582 and his post about bad production "taking the humanity out of art".
Mr Minio
02-10-18, 09:39 PM
I think that's another problem - production, or lack-of Production can be a stylistic device. Ever heard of lo-fi indie? Or purposefully no-fi black metal? Another thing is some albums are overproduced, like My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, but that's a different thing.
Auto-tune (you don't even need to be in tune anymore!), drum-machines (?), computer programs, phone apps.. These are all just tools, and if they help an artist to achieve what he or she intends, then they are put to a good use. We shouldn't judge the tool itself, but rather how well does somebody use it to fulfill one's goals. Your condemnation of everything new (although a bunch of what you listed isn't new at all, drum-machines are older than you) seems very narrow-minded. Not to mention your doggedness when it comes to the topic has been known for years.
If you take the humanity out of art, you are stuck with a bad product that lasts for about 5 minutes. Aaaah, you're a fan of long songs, then? Seriously, though, the fact that a piece of music was created using computers does not make it dehumanized, a bad product, or not art. I mean, listen to this:
https://youtu.be/56kl4vLCDBA
If you can't find beauty and art in it, you have no CPU. I mean soul. You have no soul.
Somehow I don't think that Matt would bother bringing animation into this lol..but I can't speak for him. Matt? Do you like cartoons for movie night? :p:p
It was more aimed at matt72582 and his post about bad production "taking the humanity out of art".
It's elitist and artistically limiting to suggest that any type of art HAS to be done a certain way, and if you don't personally like it it's a "bad product" with "no humanity".
We shouldn't judge the tool itself, but rather how well does somebody use it to fulfill one's goals.
One of the wisest things said so far in this thread.
matt72582
02-10-18, 09:43 PM
I can't believe what I'm reading.. Or maybe I can.
Matt
I hear what you are saying and I'm not reading too much into it. Correct me if I am wrong but you don't appreciate the "easy way out" from today's musical production practices? You miss the time it took to tune a snare to a room, or mic placement like Jimmy Page did for the Zep albums, or having confidence to sustain a note without auto-correction because your percocet problem has your voice wavering like a pill popping wino-whore, right?
I hear you, and I understand. It's an uphill battle, trying to reason with people just out to prove a point that doesn't need to be made, and that is obvious and not even pertaining to what you are saying.
God bless you, sir.
Iroquois
02-10-18, 09:45 PM
I'm just saying that, if I were to say that movies like Beauty and the Beast or The Incredibles or The Wrong Trousers didn't count as real movies just because they didn't involve putting flesh-and-blood humans in front of a camera, then people would think I was being unnecessarily narrow-minded in my definition of what counted as a movie.
Ignorance is hilarious. I don't think it's bliss though. Or maybe it is, I dunno. These guys can live in their fantasy worlds.
matt72582
02-10-18, 09:51 PM
@Matt (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=338)
I hear what you are saying and I'm not reading too much into it. Correct me if I am wrong but you don't appreciate the "easy way out" from today's musical production practices? You miss the time it took to tune a snare to a room, or mic placement like Jimmy Page did for the Zep albums, or having confidence to sustain a note without auto-correction because your percocet problem has your voice wavering like a pill popping wino-whore, right?
I hear you, and I understand. It's an uphill battle, trying to reason with people just out to prove a point that doesn't need to be made, and that is obvious and not even pertaining to what you are saying.
God bless you, sir.
And it's not just that.. So many songs I hear are nothing but the original song, and a loop over it.... To me, it's parasitic.. I love "Three Dog Night" and they did mostly covers, but at least they actually sang, played all the instruments, and really changed it up, rather than duplicating it with a few gimmicks.
And yes, you mention instances where there are challenges, but why not practice or work harder? My cousin wanted to see what I did, and after quite a few takes of me hitting a bum note, bumping my elbow on the mic, coughing, arthritis, he said "Why don't you get an app that slows it down by half-speed, play it, and then it sounds like you are really fast" and thought what on earth has happened to work ethic. Some people don't want to practice for 20 years and would rather push a button that takes 20 seconds of work, and when this becomes the "establishment", it seems any deviation is ostracized... And I'm the first to criticize my own favorite bands about anything.
I'll never understand why some people try and beat up on people with passionate opinions, immediately accusing those opinions of being "old fashioned" or "outdated". That's a dick move right there. If these assaults came from professionals, I'd consider them, but they don't come from pro's. They come from novices who haven't tied the boots up yet. Chill out. This is supposed to be be tongue in cheek socializing and stimulation, not attacks on people for having an opinion. Try countering with a less condescending dialog. Don't fail the debate team, there's still time to poke someone in the chops with a wink and a nod before closing the casket to being socially sound.
lol. Gotta go. Have gun guys.
matt72582
02-10-18, 09:55 PM
I'll never understand why some people try and beat up on people with passionate opinions, immediately accusing those opinions of being "old fashioned" or "outdated". That's a dick move right there. If these assaults came from prfessionals, I'd consider them, but they don;t come from pro's. They come from novices who haven't tied the boots up yet. Chill out. This is supposed to be be tongue in cheek socializing and stimulation, not attacks on people for having an opinion. Try countering with a less condescending dialog. Don't fail the debate team, there's still time to poke someone in the chops with a wink and a nod before closing the casket to being socially sound.
I love when others say "You only like that stuff because you were young in the 70s, and youth is good" -- not knowing I was born in 1982.. You can't help what and who you love. Also, it makes no sense to deprive one's self of the few genuine and expressive fruits we have in life.
Matt, to answer your question about "why not just practice for 20 years and get it right" (sic). You're right. One should get it right going in and not "fix it in the mix", that's my opinion on it. I think time plays a part. I don't have the luxury of money and support and sponsorship. I work 50+ hrs a week of intensive physical labor and by the time the weekend hits I am literally shot. I have one day to throw it down. The idea is there and most of the harmonies are there but that bothersome note always cock blocks me finishing the composition, so yeah, I've experimented with auto tune, just for minute corrections, not entire choruses or verses, like you're talking about (?)
This guy...
having fun.
Nights like these are perfect for compiling mixtapes and I think that's a good idea in light of this pompous encounter...shake off the dirt..lol
I love when others say "You only like that stuff because you were young in the 70s
You weren't even alive in the 70's m8.
Mr Minio
02-10-18, 10:00 PM
lol. Gotta go. Have gun guys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zilBqDCozHs
You weren't even alive in the 70's m8.
Bro, read the posts. He clearly says he was born in 1982. All sorts of ASSumptions tonight, damn lol...
BTW Camo, I'm sorry if I come off prickly...I get a little emotional..I know, I know..that's so old fashioned and lacks composure. What was I thinking?
https://i.imgur.com/imll0YK.jpg
Mr Minio
02-10-18, 10:07 PM
Gotta go, guys. Gonna listen to some dehumanized music before I fell asleep. BYE
BTW Camo, I'm sorry if I come off prickly
Huh? Not sure if you come across that way to anyone else but you don't to me. Ask Citizen Rules i'm a big fan of yours Joel.
Takes nothing into consideration and stands by his Archie Bunker post like a true republican stereotype. Sweet dreams, kid. Happy streaming. :p:D
Huh? Not sure if you come across that way to anyone else but you don't to me. Ask Citizen Rules i'm a big fan of yours Joel.
We're internet buddies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEjdM5Wd6Kg
Iroquois
02-10-18, 10:12 PM
I'll never understand why some people try and beat up on people with passionate opinions, immediately accusing those opinions of being "old fashioned" or "outdated". That's a dick move right there. If these assaults came from professionals, I'd consider them, but they don't come from pro's. They come from novices who haven't tied the boots up yet. Chill out. This is supposed to be be tongue in cheek socializing and stimulation, not attacks on people for having an opinion. Try countering with a less condescending dialog. Don't fail the debate team, there's still time to poke someone in the chops with a wink and a nod before closing the casket to being socially sound.
Condescending? This thread was literally started by a user who asserted that punk and metal "weren't really music, but noise" - it doesn't get more condescending than asserting that the music they personally don't like doesn't count as real music regardless of what anyone else may think about it.
Condescending? This thread was literally started by a user who asserted that punk and metal "weren't really music, but noise" - it doesn't get more condescending than asserting that the music they personally don't like doesn't count as real music regardless of what anyone else may think about it.
Right. I wasn't referring to the OP, though. I was referring to the attack on Matt72582. I've seen him fall under attack before because of his classic sensibilities and it doesn't sit well with me. That's all. TBH I didn't even bother reading the OP. :)
Captain Steel
02-10-18, 10:22 PM
I'm just saying that, if I were to say that movies like Beauty and the Beast or The Incredibles or The Wrong Trousers didn't count as real movies just because they didn't involve putting flesh-and-blood humans in front of a camera, then people would think I was being unnecessarily narrow-minded in my definition of what counted as a movie.
Speaking of music... The Incredibles had a great soundtrack (most of it intentionally reminiscent of James Bond style / 60's hot cool jazz - I have no idea what to call that style!)
It was so great I bought the CD!
Start of YouTube album playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJC_Z3lhm_E&index=1&list=PLLQyrCIfk22daZTc1OJ8v0sI3vYJred1X
[QUOTE=Captain Steel;1865680]Speaking of music... The Incredibles had a great soundtrack (most of it intentionally reminiscent of James Bond style / 60's hot cool jazz - I have no idea what to call that style!)
It was so great I bought the CD!
Sounds good enough a descript to me
Citizen Rules
02-10-18, 10:28 PM
Huh? Not sure if you come across that way to anyone else but you don't to me. Ask @Citizen Rules (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=84637) i'm a big fan of yours Joel.I love everybody:p Joel's cool...But wait! not one mention of Frank Sinatra from the OP:rolleyes: Is this the same Kiwi who hated God Save the Queen?:suspicious:
Miss Vicky
02-10-18, 10:29 PM
I'll never understand why some people try and beat up on people with passionate opinions, immediately accusing those opinions of being "old fashioned" or "outdated". That's a dick move right there.
Here's the thing though: Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and express it - and that includes having an opinion about someone else's opinion.
Captain Steel
02-10-18, 10:32 PM
Here's the thing though: Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and express it - and that includes having an opinion about someone else's opinion.
Are you still President?
Here's the thing though: Everyone is allowed to have an opinion and express it - and that includes having an opinion about someone else's opinion.
Of course. And here's the thing about manners and tone..it's easily lost on the internet, and if we're to be friendly with each other, we should take precautions and try and be productive and still maintain a bond. I hate laziness. When I speak out of turn I do damage control. Anyone do damage control, or are some people perfectly happy being openly miserable and given accolades for it?
Hey, whatever. I have ailments that piss me off daily. Things I won't divulge on the net. A grinding, painful series of occurances that bind me to as much humility as my neanderthal instinct allows. When it comes to personally attacking people, I am not exempt. I recoil and try to apologize, but sometimes it's too late. I see this game on the forums as being more of a legal speak type of thing, like a lawyer would bring to court to get a murderer off on some technicality. Talk that is still filled to the brim with nastiness, but presented in such a way to remain safe and within the guidelines. F all of that noise. Have at it, I'm out.
Miss Vicky
02-10-18, 10:40 PM
Of course. And here's the thing about manners and tone..it's easily lost on the internet, and if we're to be friendly with each other, we should take precautions and try and be productive and still maintain a bond. I hate laziness. When I speak out of turn I do damage control. Anyone do damage control, or are some people perfectly happy being openly miserable and given accolades for it?
I'm not seeing anything that is particularly rude in this thread, just people honestly expressing opinions. But then, that's my opinion.
:shrug:
Iroquois
02-10-18, 10:55 PM
Right. I wasn't referring to the OP, though. I was referring to the attack on Matt72582. I've seen him fall under attack before because of his classic sensibilities and it doesn't sit well with me. That's all. TBH I didn't even bother reading the OP. :)
The issue isn't so much that he has "classic sensibilities" at all so much as the way in which he expresses them at the expense of others' sensibilities. Consider that the first post Matt got "attacked" over was one where he agreed with OP's condescending "not real music" remark, which is also the post where he first complained about humanity being taken out of art by artificial means. Understandably, people pointed out how this was an unfair generalisation to make about new music. I'll certainly hate bands and genres but I won't think of them as "not real music" - the worst music is still music.
Iroquois
02-10-18, 10:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGrfhsxxmdE
The issue isn't so much that he has "classic sensibilities" at all so much as the way in which he expresses them at the expense of others' sensibilities. Consider that the first post Matt got "attacked" over was one where he agreed with OP's condescending "not real music" remark, which is also the post where he first complained about humanity being taken out of art by artificial means. Understandably, people pointed out how this was an unfair generalisation to make about new music. I'll certainly hate bands and genres but I won't think of them as "not real music" - the worst music is still music.
Right, and that's technical speak. Of course it's "real" music. But, to read between the lines, and understand what he is really trying to communicate (I believe), is that it's not organic=real music. Elevator music is "real" music, too, but if you bring it to a party with a few honey's waiting to be taken home, guess what? You're not going home with them. You'll be rigging the cables on the floor with tape while the red operator is setting up a shot for some hardcore DP action. That's all I am saying, man.
resopamenic
02-10-18, 11:01 PM
This threat should serve for the greater good
https://youtu.be/fcI5rNR5TGM
Captain Steel
02-10-18, 11:10 PM
The issue isn't so much that he has "classic sensibilities" at all so much as the way in which he expresses them at the expense of others' sensibilities. Consider that the first post Matt got "attacked" over was one where he agreed with OP's condescending "not real music" remark, which is also the post where he first complained about humanity being taken out of art by artificial means. Understandably, people pointed out how this was an unfair generalisation to make about new music. I'll certainly hate bands and genres but I won't think of them as "not real music" - the worst music is still music.
I disagree. At a young age I had to learn to read music in order to learn to play an instrument (I'm not very good at either). But music consists of tempo (beat), melody and harmony - now, it doesn't HAVE to have all three of these, for instance a song doesn't have to have harmonies and still be a song. A melody can't exist without a tempo, but a tempo can exist without a melody.
Things like rap (in most cases; beat with neither melody nor harmony) has a musical aspect, but is just someone talking or rhyming to a tempo. In the 60's when beatniks would recite poetry to the sound of a bongo drum, it would be hard to call that "music."
Similar with someone just screaming into a microphone - no melody, no harmony = not music even if it had someone going crazy on a drum set behind it.
If two voices harmonized two sustained notes (but no other notes with no tempo) that might be considered a meditation, but probably would not be called music (again, an element of music, but in and of itself not music).
So, yeah it's all opinion, but those of you who (disagree with the OP) and think that listening to noise is a form of musical appreciation, then you might just as well enjoy listening to a jackhammer, or traffic, or Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" - in other words, you may be nice people, but there's something wrong with you if you think that's music. ;)
resopamenic
02-10-18, 11:27 PM
The issue isn't so much that he has "classic sensibilities" at all so much as the way in which he expresses them at the expense of others' sensibilities. Consider that the first post Matt got "attacked" over was one where he agreed with OP's condescending "not real music" remark, which is also the post where he first complained about humanity being taken out of art by artificial means. Understandably, people pointed out how this was an unfair generalisation to make about new music. I'll certainly hate bands and genres but I won't think of them as "not real music" - the worst music is still music.
I disagree. At a young age I had to learn to read music in order to learn to play an instrument (I'm not very good at either). But music consists of tempo (beat), melody and harmony - now, it doesn't HAVE to have all three of these, for instance a song doesn't have to have harmonies and still be a song. A melody can't exist without a tempo, but a tempo can exist without a melody.
Things like rap (in most cases; beat with neither melody nor harmony) has a musical aspect, but is just someone talking or rhyming to a tempo. In the 60's when beatniks would recite poetry to the sound of a bongo drum, it would be hard to call that "music."
Similar with someone just screaming into a microphone - no melody, no harmony = not music even if it had someone going crazy on a drum set behind it.
If two voices harmonized two sustained notes (but no other notes with no tempo) that might be considered a meditation, but probably would not be called music (again, an element of music, but in and of itself not music).
So, yeah it's all opinion, but those of you who (disagree with the OP) and think that listening to noise is a form of musical appreciation, then you might just as well enjoy listening to a jackhammer, or traffic, or Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" - in other words, you may be nice people, but there's something wrong with you if you think that's music. ;)yup im disagree with captain totally :D
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_music
"However, the music genres known as noise music and musique concrète, for instance, challenge these ideas about what constitutes music's essential attributes by using sounds not widely considered as musical, like randomly produced electronic distortion, feedback, static, cacophony, and compositional processes using indeterminacy"
Captain Steel
02-10-18, 11:28 PM
I remember a day when I would have been embarrassed to admit I liked Bubble Gum music.
When I was in 8th grade I would've been taking my life into my hands if it became public that my favorite band was the Beach Boys (or expressed the unthinkable idea the Brian Wilson had talent, no less that he'd someday be thought to be some kind of a "genius") - I would've been pummeled by Heavy Meddlers (that's a pun, btw) or Punk Rockers! ;)
Sorry, whenever I think of Brian Wilson, I have to post this spoof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3HPqfW5ZU&t=35s
I remember when I heard my first experimental electronic cut. It was like a telephone pole having a full body seizure. Does this connect with me? No. Is it different? Yes. Will I listen to it again? Wait, one more question before I answer. Did it make me laugh? No.
No.
I remember a day when I would have been embarrassed to admit I liked Bubble Gum music.
When I was in 8th grade I would've been taking my life into my hands if it became public that my favorite band was the Beach Boys (or expressed the unthinkable idea the Brian Wilson had talent, no less that he'd someday be thought to be some kind of a "genius") - I would've been pummeled by Heavy Meddlers (that's a pun, btw) or Punk Rockers! ;)
Sorry, whenever I think of Brian Wilson, I have to post this spoof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3HPqfW5ZU&t=35s
Ha! I wanna watch this again, now.
I think it's funny that BW would go through these charades like this, more or less. But, if you can actually communicate, on a blueprint level, how the strings should come off "tangy" and not "salty", that process I find fascinating. It's a very high form of intelligence, communication. Maybe the music was mediocre, though, huh? Haha.
How would one describe a string section to be spicy and not salty?
That's a tough one.
Captain Steel
02-10-18, 11:38 PM
yup im disagree with captain totally :D
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_music
That's okay reso, we can disagree on music AND still enjoy the cute Japanese girls! ;)
Captain Steel
02-10-18, 11:40 PM
Ha! I wanna watch this again, now.
I think it's funny that BW would go through these charades like this, more or less. But, if you can actually communicate, on a blueprint level, how the strings should come off "tangy" and not "salty", that process I find fascinating. It's a very high form of intelligence, communication. Maybe the music was mediocre, though, huh? Haha.
How would one describe a string section to be spicy and not salty?
That's a tough one.
Actually, Joel, it was just the LSD!
Actually, Joel, it was just the LSD!
Careful, Captain, you're starting to sound like a republican. Hahaha!
It was, you're right. Well, that and the fact that he got smacked upside the head a lot. Poor bastard. I love the guy, though. He was no fluke, that's for sure.
Captain Steel
02-10-18, 11:48 PM
Careful, Captain, you're starting to sound like a republican. Hahaha!
It was, you're right. Well, that and the fact that he got smacked upside the head a lot. Poor bastard. I love the guy, though. He was no fluke, that's for sure.
Not to go off topic - but why did so many family bands seem to have the same abusive father? (the Wilsons, the Jacksons, the Cowsills.)
The Cowsills is a horror story (the group the Partridge Family was based on), where Susan claimed that her father, in addition to being physically and mentally abusive, sexually molested her! In fact, the kids' aunts said the father tried to feel them up and even tried to engage in sexual misconduct with their mother - his mother-in-law.
Back onto the topic of artificial vs organic. Let's say you push a preset drum pattern. A drum pattern you did not play yourself. Not only did you not play it, but you didn;t even compose the notes. You didn't set-up the bass pattern, or the snare, or the hats. You just hit that button. All of a sudden, your music has this HUGE presence. It's larger than life, life, life, life...
Someone before you mounted that dame, polished her up, tweaked her knobs, completely romanced her bottom, and left you with a sex doll replica. All you do is fill it with air and go "squeeeee!!!!!"
There's your track.
That's where I draw the line. Convenience is nice. Having dual microwaves at work on lunch break saves time so you can chow down and vape outside for the last 15 minutes....but for music..if you really, really care...you will court your woman, and let no other man take her out for coffee. That track must be yours from the ground up. Ain't no one gonna cuckold my track out to some red bull hopped up programmer he ripped off of a Sly Stone album and then tell me to hit play.
The beat is in nature. It's in the trees, the wind, the birds song, the river, the traffic, the footsteps of 3rd grade recess single filing, the marching of soldiers under command.
Be the ball, Danny.
Iroquois
02-10-18, 11:50 PM
Right, and that's technical speak. Of course it's "real" music. But, to read between the lines, and understand what he is really trying to communicate (I believe), is that it's not organic=real music. Elevator music is "real" music, too, but if you bring it to a party with a few honey's waiting to be taken home, guess what? You're not going home with them. You'll be rigging the cables on the floor with tape while the red operator is setting up a shot for some hardcore DP action. That's all I am saying, man.
...what.
Besides, it's not like they'd go home with the dude who brings "Comfortably Numb" to the party either.
I dunno, man. As much as I see points being made, there always seems to be this side joke going on about getting old and losing touch. I, for one, am not afraid of the future. It poses no real threat. Actually, scratch that. We are completely screwed. Sleep tight. But a little understanding goes a long way, and since we're talking about opinions of MUSIC, and not about THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE OPINIONS, the lines shouldn't blur like that, well, unless you're just basically a dick. Let me ask you a serious question. Are you a serious dick/ Take your time, think it over.
Feel free to quote the sections where it was more about attacking the person themselves than the disagreeable opinions they hold.
I disagree. At a young age I had to learn to read music in order to learn to play an instrument (I'm not very good at either). But music consists of tempo (beat), melody and harmony - now, it doesn't HAVE to have all three of these, for instance a song doesn't have to have harmonies and still be a song. A melody can't exist without a tempo, but a tempo can exist without a melody.
Things like rap (in most cases; beat with neither melody nor harmony) has a musical aspect, but is just someone talking or rhyming to a tempo. In the 60's when beatniks would recite poetry to the sound of a bongo drum, it would be hard to call that "music."
Similar with someone just screaming into a microphone - no melody, no harmony = not music even if it had someone going crazy on a drum set behind it.
If two voices harmonized two sustained notes (but no other notes with no tempo) that might be considered a meditation, but probably would not be called music (again, an element of music, but in and of itself not music).
So, yeah it's all opinion, but those of you who (disagree with the OP) and think that listening to noise is a form of musical appreciation, then you might just as well enjoy listening to a jackhammer, or traffic, or Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" - in other words, you may be nice people, but there's something wrong with you if you think that's music. ;)
Music is not a static thing - it's been evolving for as long as humans have been making it and the evolution has only gotten quicker and more diverse with the passage of time and cross-cultural exchange. Saying it has to stick to certain conventions in order to qualify as music is a reductive way of looking at new developments (especially when you consider people said the same thing about jazz and rock-'n'-roll). Also, do you seriously expect to pull the opinion card and then say people who like noise have something wrong with them? Winking face or not, that's still condescending.
resopamenic
02-10-18, 11:53 PM
"organic" "artificial" "real music" wtf
Is this another form of "no true scottman" happened here :/
"no true scottman"
I'm here bro. True Scottman!
Captain Steel
02-10-18, 11:58 PM
Music is not a static thing - it's been evolving for as long as humans have been making it and the evolution has only gotten quicker and more diverse with the passage of time and cross-cultural exchange. Saying it has to stick to certain conventions in order to qualify as music is a reductive way of looking at new developments (especially when you consider people said the same thing about jazz and rock-'n'-roll). Also, do you seriously expect to pull the opinion card and then say people who like noise have something wrong with them? Winking face or not, that's still condescending.
The winking face absolves me of all accountability. ;)
Actually it indicates I'm not entirely serious, no one should actually feel condescended to, and most importantly, it's all in fun.
But ultimately... "WhatEVAH! I do what I want!" ;)
Iroquois
02-11-18, 12:11 AM
Back onto the topic of artificial vs organic. Let's say you push a preset drum pattern. A drum pattern you did not play yourself. Not only did you not play it, but you didn;t even compose the notes. You didn't set-up the bass pattern, or the snare, or the hats. You just hit that button. All of a sudden, your music has this HUGE presence. It's larger than life, life, life, life...
Someone before you mounted that dame, polished her up, tweaked her knobs, completely romanced her bottom, and left you with a sex doll replica. All you do is fill it with air and go "squeeeee!!!!!"
There's your track.
That's where I draw the line. Convenience is nice. Having dual microwaves at work on lunch break saves time so you can chow down and vape outside for the last 15 minutes....but for music..if you really, really care...you will court your woman, and let no other man take her out for coffee. That track must be yours from the ground up. Ain't no one gonna cuckold my track out to some red bull hopped up programmer he ripped off of a Sly Stone album and then tell me to hit play.
The beat is in nature. It's in the trees, the wind, the birds song, the river, the traffic, the footsteps of 3rd grade recess single filing, the marching of soldiers under command.
Be the ball, Danny.
The drums are just one part of the song. Should I write off all rock because of how many drummers try their damndest to replicate John Bonham? That's without mentioning the assumption that one wouldn't compose their own patterns with a drum machine anyway because hey maybe people would be able to sniff out familiar drum beats anyway (which they could also do if it was a live drummer copying an earlier drummer's work). Again, this kind of "press a button and the whole song's done" attitude is very counter-productive.
To this end, I feel like I need to mention Big Black, a short-lived but astounding band that does use a drum machine but in a way that's integral to the band's overall sound and never once feels like it's being used out of laziness (to say nothing of frontman Steve Albini being the kind of dude who does not compromise his music). This band's output alone is all the argument I need that drum machines are not inherently a bad thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwPP7B596Qc
Iroquois
02-11-18, 12:12 AM
The winking face absolves me of all accountability. ;)
Actually it indicates I'm not entirely serious, no one should actually feel condescended to, and most importantly, it's all in fun.
But ultimately... "WhatEVAH! I do what I want!" ;)
The winking face looks smug more than anything, as if you're all "hey it's not my fault that I think you're messed up".
resopamenic
02-11-18, 12:19 AM
"no true scottman"
I'm here bro. True Scottman!oh the green brigade indeed!!
The winking face looks smug more than anything, as if you're all "hey it's not my fault that I think you're messed up".
But I bet that's not what really happened!
The drums are just one part of the song. Should I write off all rock because of how many drummers try their damndest to replicate John Bonham? That's without mentioning the assumption that one wouldn't compose their own patterns with a drum machine anyway because hey maybe people would be able to sniff out familiar drum beats anyway (which they could also do if it was a live drummer copying an earlier drummer's work). Again, this kind of "press a button and the whole song's done" attitude is very counter-productive.
To this end, I feel like I need to mention Big Black, a short-lived but astounding band that does use a drum machine but in a way that's integral to the band's overall sound and never once feels like it's being used out of laziness (to say nothing of frontman Steve Albini being the kind of dude who does not compromise his music). This band's output alone is all the argument I need that drum machines are not inherently a bad thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwPP7B596Qc
I like Big Black. I also like drum machines. I'm not sure you saw my point, or even cared to? All good. Completely sapped of strength at this point, lol.
Iroquois
02-11-18, 12:27 AM
What was your point? That people might recycle a drum beat through a machine instead of just by getting a live drummer to play it? It got a little hard to tell once you got several lines deep into talking about a sex doll.
;) is smug af. I always feel weird about using it even though i always use it in a joking way. At least i hope that's what comes across, either way ;) is a dangerous move only used by edgy bros who just don't care what people think of them IMO.
Damn, was caught in the middle of something there. Love both of you, i'll stay with Joel through the week and papa Iro can have me on weekends.
What was your point? That people might recycle a drum beat through a machine instead of just by getting a live drummer to play it? It got a little hard to tell once you got several lines deep into talking about a sex doll.
Yes and no. Yes to recycling a drum beat. No to the narrow notion that someone would "get a live drummer to play it." I'm talking about self producing. All the instruments by one person. I should have been clear in the beginning. I may end up making my text way bigger, too. Stick around for that!
Damn, was caught in the middle of something there. Love both of you, i'll stay with Joel through the week and papa Iro can have me on weekends.
You better not come knocking Monday morning, Camo. Not until you've showered three times and said the rosary twice. No shortcuts.
Iroquois
02-11-18, 12:46 AM
lmao
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 12:58 AM
The winking face looks smug more than anything, as if you're all "hey it's not my fault that I think you're messed up".
Actually, I'm all "Hey it IS my fault that I think you're messed up." if I were to think anyone was "messed up."
Who else's fault would my thinking that be?
I am the only person responsible for my opinions, and I won't blame them on heritage, culture, family, social status, education, teachers, or even Mr. Krause (the man who taught me to play the saxomophone!)
As far as smugness - I'm actually very humble.
"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him."
MovieGal
02-11-18, 01:20 AM
F*ck it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziNaZxvp-Qk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U-Mjnn0JXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s76aJ3b1gPU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i4CCKgWWh8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx4Zw34MOY4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H4BEOJpBzs
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 01:29 AM
You don't need to listen to what is popular. Every type of music is made every year. People who gripe about today's music are really close minded.
I don't gripe, its just not what i consider music, that doesn't mean I chase teens in my walking frame yelling at them to shut that garage off.... LOL...
But as I said, its not for me and for you to know that, I had to express an opinion, but that doesn't mean I'm griping.... does it? :)
And my mind isn't closed... :( For example, if my mind were closed, I'd focus on one genre of music and then shut everything else out.
But, that doesn't mean I don't have an open mind... I do listen to "modern" songs... and will judge them accordingly. There are some I like and some I hate, the in-between stuff is "meh!"
There just isn't one artist today that I like enough to call myself a fan... I like the song... that is it. If there was, then he would be up there with the greats, in my opinion.
Further... I wish people would stop picking on Justin Bieber... the poor girl gets all the crap. :)
MovieGal
02-11-18, 01:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKJ1t3ai23M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8HX_vGPCz8
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 01:30 AM
OMG, I leave you all alone for 24 hours and I'm facing 5 pages of replies... :(
I have created a monster. :(
MovieGal
02-11-18, 01:34 AM
As far as smugness - I'm actually very humble.
"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him."
why just "man"? You can learn from a woman too.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 01:39 AM
Nope. This is noise:
As you can see heavy metal and punk rock are quite tame in comparison. Plus the last album is from 1989, so you can't really call it new. F*ck me, that Hanatarash album is good, gotta rate it on RYM.
Besides, if you can't find beauty in this:
You're just a dried cucumber.
That's another narrow-mided thought. Sure, if you like mellow, relaxing music, that's fine. I do, too. However, saying all music should be like this is too much. The true beauty of music is its variety. There's the relaxing stuff, the sexy stuff, the banging stuff, the brutal stuff, every kind has its place and can be enjoyed given the person is open-minded.
I removed your links because I don't have the required 25 posts to post links, but the admin should rest assured, that if I were to post links, they would be both relevant and entertaining. Maybe one of us that has been here much longer should be stripped of his rights to post links given that they were were nothing but garbage anyhow, designed to flame and abuse another person.
Thank you for YOUR OPINION.... but you say I am narrow minded, NO, like you, I expressed MY OPINION, there was no need for your rude comments, sir, none at all. If you are unwilling to debate this in a rational and clam manner, then I will ask you to not bother posting in this thread again.
The fact is.... I owned MY OPINIONS.... I never said everyone should agree with me... did I? So rather than me getting abusive with you... I'll do like any former Brit colonist would say.... P**S off ... oh, and have a nice day.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 01:40 AM
OMG, I leave you all alone for 24 hours and I'm facing 5 pages of replies... :(
I have created a monster. :(
Not too many newbies get such a response on their 2nd thread!
(Come to think of it, I've been here a couple years and haven't gotten such a response on any threads!) ;)
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 01:41 AM
Ugh. Not this close-minded sh*t again.
The only sh*t is coming from you, since WHEN is expressing an opinion being closed minded, did I tell YOU your music was crap? NO, I just said I didn't like it. what the F**K is the matter with some people of this site. Time to start complaining to the admin.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 01:45 AM
By that logic, does that mean that animated movies aren't really movies either?
matter of opinion, right? You could argue that a movie is nothing more than a whole lot of photos snipped together.
Miss Vicky
02-11-18, 01:48 AM
The only sh*t is coming from you, since WHEN is expressing an opinion being closed minded, did I tell YOU your music was crap? NO, I just said I didn't like it. what the F**K is the matter with some people of this site. Time to start complaining to the admin.
Saying that what is out there today isn't music but noise is a very closed minded statement to make. And being an opinion doesn't exempt a statement from being closed minded.
I think it's funny that you think it's okay to make a provocative/potentially offensive statement and then threaten to run to the admin when people are provoked.
Miss Vicky
02-11-18, 01:50 AM
BTW that rep was accidental. I suck at MoFoing on a touchscreen.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 01:52 AM
I'll never understand why some people try and beat up on people with passionate opinions, immediately accusing those opinions of being "old fashioned" or "outdated". That's a dick move right there. If these assaults came from professionals, I'd consider them, but they don't come from pro's. They come from novices who haven't tied the boots up yet. Chill out. This is supposed to be be tongue in cheek socializing and stimulation, not attacks on people for having an opinion. Try countering with a less condescending dialog. Don't fail the debate team, there's still time to poke someone in the chops with a wink and a nod before closing the casket to being socially sound.
Except all I did was state my opinions, I never said others could have theres, I know many people who hate swing, and that is fine, but more than one person on this site is being a dick about it. Live and let live, right.... anyone would think I'd tried to murder someone with the abuse and outrageous comments that have been made.
I'll put that down to the fact that they are nothing but immature children.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 01:52 AM
matter of opinion, right? You could argue that a movie is nothing more than a whole lot of photos snipped together.
Give 'em hell, Kiwi!
(Bunch of jack-hammer-machine cacophony, peace-disturbing, punk-thrash-grunge-metal-pornogrind-rap-techno-screamo-crunkcore-gangsta-hip-hoppin-deathgrind, grating-on-the-nerves noise lovers!) ;)
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 01:55 AM
Condescending? This thread was literally started by a user who asserted that punk and metal "weren't really music, but noise" - it doesn't get more condescending than asserting that the music they personally don't like doesn't count as real music regardless of what anyone else may think about it.
It was MY OPINION!!! Live with it, if you cannot live with it, then F**K OFF, no one is forcing you to post here OR making you NOT listen to the music YOU LIKE.... right?
Maybe you dislike others having an opinion, maybe you want me to agree with you... yeah right, there is a name for people like you.
Miss Vicky
02-11-18, 02:01 AM
It was MY OPINION!!! Live with it, if you cannot live with it, then F**K OFF, no one is forcing you to post here OR making you NOT listen to the music YOU LIKE.... right?
Maybe you dislike others having an opinion, maybe you want me to agree with you... yeah right, there is a name for people like you.
Dude, this is a forum for discussion. You bitch about "abuse" and people acting like "children" all the while throwing a temper tantrum because people dared to have a problem with the way you expressed your opinion and dared to try to discuss it.
Seems to me that you're the one who ought to chill out or get out.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 02:03 AM
Dude, this is a forum for discussion. You bitch about "abuse" and people acting like "children" all the while throwing a temper tantrum because people dared to have a problem with the way you expressed your opinion and dared to try to discuss it.
Seems to me that you're the one who ought to chill out or get out.
You ARE still President!!! :)
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:08 AM
Saying that what is out there today isn't music but noise is a very closed minded statement to make. And being an opinion doesn't exempt a statement from being closed minded.
I think it's funny that you think it's okay to make a provocative/potentially offensive statement and then threaten to run to the admin when people are provoked.
No its not, its MY opinion... my opinion is worth whatever value YOU place on it, but to insult me and abuse me is denying me the right to my opinion, how old are some of you on this site? OMG... a closed minded statement would be "Punk is **** and anyone that listens to it is also ****".....
An opinion, MY opinion, is that ... I
Right, Got that, "I".... me, NOT YOU.... ME....
-
I THINK..... OK, still with me, YOU think, we all think, but I don't go around insulting you for THINKING.... so I THINK
still with me?
I think PUNK and HEAVY METAL is CRAP..... I couldn't give a **** if you agree with me or not, in fact, if you want to express YOUR opinion, calmly and without insults or abuse... I'll listen...
And I'm man enough to allow you to have that opinion because you are a member of the human race and entitled to hold and express and opinion, right, But there is NO NEED.... to insult and abuse me for having the right to hold MY opinion.
If my Hello post, I said I was 57.5 years old and dying of teminal lung cancer. I thought this was a nice site, seems I was wrong, its full of children who thinks they can bully a person into backing down...
I have NEVER backed away from a fight yet, you want a flame war, then BRING IT! I won'tr be bullied into conforming to your idea of what a member of this site needs to be... ie: always agree with YOU.
Now, either bring it... of two words.... the last one ends with "OFF"
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:14 AM
So I have a closed mind for not liking Punk or Heavy Metal...
So, using your logic... if there is something YOU wont eat, say, Broccoli... then obviously, YOU HAVE A CLOSED MIND!
Some of you owe me an apology and seriously, you need to grow the hell up. EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion, You don't have to agree with it... just as I don't have to agree with YOUR opinon that Punk and Heavy metal is the coolest since thing since sliced bread. You are hypocrites....
You should educate yourselves on what a "closed mind" means and the difference between that and an "opinion", seriously, you are acting like BULLIES, and children, which makes it worse. GROW UP!
The only sh*t is coming from you, since WHEN is expressing an opinion being closed minded, did I tell YOU your music was crap? NO, I just said I didn't like it. what the F**K is the matter with some people of this site. Time to start complaining to the admin.
Saying that what is out there today isn't music but noise is a very closed minded statement to make. And being an opinion doesn't exempt a statement from being closed minded.
I think it's funny that you think it's okay to make a provocative/potentially offensive statement and then threaten to run to the admin when people are provoked.
Hey vicky. Give it a rest. Really.
Miss Vicky
02-11-18, 02:18 AM
As I said already, people are allowed to have opinions about everything - including opinions about your opinions. And frankly your age and health are irrelevant and don't give you a free pass to throw a tantrum.
As to what music you do or don't like? I don't give a damn if you hate metal or punk. I don't much like them either but my dislike of them doesn't invalidate them as music.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:19 AM
Dude, this is a forum for discussion. You bitch about "abuse" and people acting like "children" all the while throwing a temper tantrum because people dared to have a problem with the way you expressed your opinion and dared to try to discuss it.
Seems to me that you're the one who ought to chill out or get out.
OMG, seriously, do you see how much of a hypocrite you are. I was NOT throwing a tantrum, I was expressing an opinion, YOU attacked me for daring to have an opinion, YOU threw the tantrum with your childish abuse and immature crap. If this is a discussion forum, then why am I not allowed to discuss what I like and dislike?
What you are saying if this is a forum BUT ONLY if children like you agree with what is said, then you abuse, insult and bully your way to silencing me or making me agree with you...
Is this North Korea? Are you "Dear Leaders" sister? Do you want to send me to the re-education camps?
"...or get out"
Said like a TRUE BULLY!
Miss Vicky
02-11-18, 02:23 AM
Nobody is saying you can't discuss what you like and don't like. Your statement that certain genres aren't "real music" isn't a statement of taste, it's calling into question the validity of an art form that several people here enjoy. I'm not sure why you don't see the distinction between the two.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:23 AM
As I said already, people are allowed to have opinions about everything - including opinions about your opinions. And frankly your age and health are irrelevant and don't give you a free pass to throw a tantrum.
As to what music you do or don't like? I don't give a damn if you hate metal or punk. I don't much like them either but my dislike of them doesn't invalidate them as music.
You are trying to sound fair, but you are nothing but a bully.
Tell me, who MADE you post in this thread? If you don't agree with what i said, move on and find a thread you do like... but NO, you are the bully here. I suggest you stay silent and move on, there is nothing I hate more than a bully AND a hypocrite, I can have my opinion, No I cant... I get insulted and abused and bullied.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 02:24 AM
Prediction: this thread will be gone tomorrow morning.
But... then no one will know I made the prediction... because there will be no proof that I ever made it.
It's just like that episode of the Twilight Zone where no one believes the guy who predicted something would be erased from having ever happened because it was and it never did!
Dude, this is a forum for discussion. You bitch about "abuse" and people acting like "children" all the while throwing a temper tantrum because people dared to have a problem with the way you expressed your opinion and dared to try to discuss it.
Seems to me that you're the one who ought to chill out or get out.
OMG, seriously, do you see how much of a hypocrite you are. I was NOT throwing a tantrum, I was expressing an opinion, YOU attacked me for daring to have an opinion, YOU threw the tantrum with your childish abuse and immature crap. If this is a discussion forum, then why am I not allowed to discuss what I like and dislike?
What you are saying if this is a forum BUT ONLY if children like you agree with what is said, then you abuse, insult and bully your way to silencing me or making me agree with you...
Is this North Korea? Are you "Dear Leaders" sister? Do you want to send me to the re-education camps?
"...or get out"
Said like a TRUE BULLY!
Not worth it kiwi. Some people on here are totally miserable and thrive on conflict. Maybe your post was provacative. Who cares? The miserables do. Try to enjoy your stay, serious. Dont waste another drop of energy. That would validate the argument. Its dead.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:27 AM
Not worth it kiwi. Some people on here are totally miserable and thrive on conflict. Maybe your post was provacative. Who cares? The miserables do. Try to enjoy your stay, serious. Dont waste another drop of energy. That would validate the argument. Its dead.
Yes, I agree with your opinion. Look, I didn't try to bully you.
Its good to know that trolls exist here. I shall add them to my ignore list, at least, I have a good life here in New Zealand, these people must be sad and very lonely if they have to bully their way to be noticed.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:30 AM
Nobody is saying you can't discuss what you like and don't like. Your statement that certain genres aren't "real music" isn't a statement of taste, it's calling into question the validity of an art form that several people here enjoy. I'm not sure why you don't see the distinction between the two.
I dont see how you cannot allow me to have my opinion, if you are allowed YOUR opinion. You are a bully and a hypocrite. Why dont YOU see the difference! I have added you to my ignore list.
I hate trolls, and you ARE a troll... a bully troll to boot.
Miss Vicky
02-11-18, 02:30 AM
You are trying to sound fair, but you are nothing but a bully.
Tell me, who MADE you post in this thread? If you don't agree with what i said, move on and find a thread you do like... but NO, you are the bully here. I suggest you stay silent and move on, there is nothing I hate more than a bully AND a hypocrite, I can have my opinion, No I cant... I get insulted and abused and bullied.
If you have a problem with me, make use of the ignore feature or ignore me the old fashioned way. But as I said, this is a discussion forum and discussions aren't always between people who agree with each other. Disagreement is just as valid and, just as you have the right to express your opinions, whether other people like them or not, so do I.
Iroquois
02-11-18, 02:31 AM
There is a difference between you personally not liking such music (which I can understand even if I personally like it) and saying it doesn't qualify as music, which implies that the people who do like it don't even know what counts as good music and is in its own way as insulting as saying they are "****".
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:34 AM
There is a difference between you personally not liking such music (which I can understand even if I personally like it) and saying it doesn't qualify as music, which implies that the people who do like it don't even know what counts as good music and is in its own way as insulting as saying they are "****".
Seriously, dude, either one, its STILL *ONLY* my opinion.
You think I matter? You think MY opinion is super duper important to YOU???
Wow, you give me so much credit, I feel excited, I must be some big wig in the music industry and never knew it...
My opinion is THAT big a deal with you.....
wow, I never knew....
(turns sarcasm tap off!)
(sigh) so many children here.
Not worth it kiwi. Some people on here are totally miserable and thrive on conflict. Maybe your post was provacative. Who cares? The miserables do. Try to enjoy your stay, serious. Dont waste another drop of energy. That would validate the argument. Its dead.
Yes, I agree with your opinion. Look, I didn't try to bully you.
Its good to know that trolls exist here. I shall add them to my ignore list, at least, I have a good life here in New Zealand, these people must be sad and very lonely if they have to bully their way to be noticed.
Of course not. Theres no lesson nyone is gonna learn. The jerks are jerks. Let the jerks have fun jerking. Feel free to call my music garbage and not actual music haha. Its not PERSONAL.
Iroquois
02-11-18, 02:37 AM
Seriously, dude, either one, its STILL *ONLY* my opinion.
You think I matter? You think MY opinion is super duper important to YOU???
Wow, you give me so much credit, I feel excited, I must be some big wig in the music industry and never knew it...
My opinion is THAT big a deal with you.....
wow, I never knew....
(turns sarcasm tap off!)
(sigh) so many children here.
I feel sorry for you.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:40 AM
Now why would I do that, if you like your music, then who am I to stop you liking it, or saying you like it, same goes for the music you hate... its an opinion only and some people get really upset and it damages their ego if you don't like their music...how boring that would be, if everyone had the same opinion...
I like one thing about life.... 7 billion people on the planet, and we all have an a-hole... and an opinion.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 02:42 AM
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/51287796/best-thread-ever.jpg
There is a difference between you personally not liking such music (which I can understand even if I personally like it) and saying it doesn't qualify as music, which implies that the people who do like it don't even know what counts as good music and is in its own way as insulting as saying they are "****".
Seriously, dude, either one, its STILL *ONLY* my opinion.
You think I matter? You think MY opinion is super duper important to YOU???
Wow, you give me so much credit, I feel excited, I must be some big wig in the music industry and never knew it...
My opinion is THAT big a deal with you.....
wow, I never knew....
(turns sarcasm tap off!)
(sigh) so many children here.
Kiwi, its always good to know that despite a disagreement, one could reiterate their position. In other words, even apologize. Im not trying to sound like a know it all even tho i may come off that way but try making peace with some of these clueless types that frequent forums and all you get is silence and/or a cold matter of factly response. Not even sure about humanity tbh lol.
Now thats sad, but im not crying. Id laugh but its not funny either. Its just... empty and clinical.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:43 AM
I feel sorry for you.
THAT is your opinion, you are entitled to have it.
But I feel sorry for you, not being smart enough to know about opinions. One day you are going to meet someone in real life and you are going to try and bully them into changing their opinion and then you will find out the hard way that you made a mistake.
Live and let live, that is why i feel sorry for you, 7 billion opinions on this planet, and you are going to have to fight them all, because no two opinions are ever alike.
BTW.... I couldn't give a flying F**K what you 'feel" for me.
I feel sorry for you.
Sure you do!
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:48 AM
Kiwi, its always good to know that despite a disagreement, one could reiterate their position. In other words, even apologize. Im not trying to sound like a know it all even tho i may come off that way but try making peace with some of these clueless types that frequent forums and all you get is silence and/or a cold matter of factly response. Not even sure about humanity tbh lol.
Now thats sad, but im not crying. Id laugh but its not funny either. Its just... empty and clinical.
Make peace with them? Maybe. I have spent the last 40 years of my life here in New Zealand being a Political activist. I know what its like when bullies try to bully you into submission... I was once even attacked by four Conservatives who thought 4 on 1 was fair. I put one in hospital and the others looked like a truck had hit them. Yes, I didn't look any better, but because I put one in hospital, I served six weeks in prison. I wear that as a badge of honor because I NEVER give in to bullies... or those that would deny a fellow human being an opinion.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:49 AM
Sure you do!
Yeah, deep down, he loves me, he wants my body... :p
THAT is your opinion, you are entitled to have it.
But I feel sorry for you, not being smart enough to know about opinions. One day you are going to meet someone in real life and you are going to try and bully them into changing their opinion and then you will find out the hard way that you made a mistake.
Live and let live, that is why i feel sorry for you, 7 billion opinions on this planet, and you are going to have to fight them all, because no two opinions are ever alike.
BTW.... I couldn't give a flying F**K what you 'feel" for me.
Don't think someone needs to have a negative opinion of you to feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for anyone with preconcieved notions of modern music, whatever you like it's out there today and in much more volume than before.
Anyway, read your Intro Thread, awesome on your recovery mate :up: My niece had/has Leukemia and she has overcome it, it's an incredible thing. Best of luck mate. :)
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:51 AM
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/51287796/best-thread-ever.jpg
I actually hate flame wars online, but these people pushed my buttons. However... all good things must come to an end. Glad you had fun though. :)
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 02:56 AM
Don't think someone needs to have a negative opinion of you to feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for anyone with preconcieved notions of modern music, whatever you like it's out there today and in much more volume than before.
Anyway, read your Intro Thread, awesome on your recovery mate :up: My niece had/has Leukemia and she has overcome it, it's an incredible thing. Best of luck mate. :)
Dude.... preconceived, NO.... I have listened to it all... I judged it fairly.... IN MY OPINION, I do not like Punk or Heavy metal... to ME, my opinion, it sounds like noise...is it THAT hard to get the difference?
Having a closed my is NOT hearing an argument at all... you have already decided... but dude, YOU ASSUMED I HAD NOT LISTENED TO IT.... stop making assumptions, I'm nearly 58, its impossible for me NOT to have heard that music.... but I'm STILL entitled to my opinion, just as YOU are yours.
If you cannot understand that, then, dammit, you must be extremely stupid or very young. If YOU like it, fine, I'm not about to bulling you like you lot did me, I merely said i didn't like, it sounds like noise... MY OPINION... what the f**k is so hard to understand....
OK.... apology accepted. Lets move on.... cancer is no picnic, but contrary to what Vicki said, I didn't mention it to get let off a fight... others are worse off than I am.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 03:05 AM
Don't think someone needs to have a negative opinion of you to feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for anyone with preconcieved notions of modern music, whatever you like it's out there today and in much more volume than before.
Anyway, read your Intro Thread, awesome on your recovery mate :up: My niece had/has Leukemia and she has overcome it, it's an incredible thing. Best of luck mate. :)
BTW, My lung cancer is terminal. If the Gene Therapy pill works, then the cancer will go into remission, but the cancer cells are still in the lining of my lungs. Sooner or later... the BIG C will get me.
When I was told, it took me a split second to "get it" and accept it. I now help others to deal with it. My wife however, already lost two previous husbands (but not to cancer) so I made a deal with her when we were married three years ago (wedding anniversary yesterday as a matter of fact) that she had to die first so she didn't have to suffer like the last two times....
Well.... if death wants me, he will have a hell of a fight. I made a promise to Rianne (my wife) to stay alive for the next 15 years. :)
DrJacoby
02-11-18, 03:07 AM
Find me some music from any point of time that doesn't suck, I bet you cant :D
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 03:11 AM
Find me some music from any point of time that doesn't such, I bet you cant :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9aHrgtf2zY
7.8 billion people think this song does not "such"!
DrJacoby
02-11-18, 03:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9aHrgtf2zY
7.8 billion people think this song does not "such"!
7.9 billion people are wrong then :D
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 03:17 AM
Find me some music from any point of time that doesn't suck, I bet you cant :D
By suck you mean dislike... I'd have to agree.
When I said I liked most of the stuff Elvis did, yes, but there are a few of his I do not like, "In The Ghetto" is one.
I'd challenge you to find an artist, any artist, that had 100% hits and no duds... no one can say they did, even the masters (Classical music) had their duds.
Dude.... preconceived, NO.... I have listened to it all... I judged it fairly.... IN MY OPINION, I do not like Punk or Heavy metal... to ME, my opinion, it sounds like noise...is it THAT hard to get the difference?
What have you listened to exactly? Sounds like you're into Dad Rock what contemporaries did you listen to?
Having a closed my is NOT hearing an argument at all... you have already decided... but dude, YOU ASSUMED I HAD NOT LISTENED TO IT.... stop making assumptions, I'm nearly 58, its impossible for me NOT to have heard that music.... but I'm STILL entitled to my opinion, just as YOU are yours.
Your opinion is yours mate i'm not trying to take that away from you, but you did create a thread you knew was going to be controversial so let's not be baffled by the responses every time, huh. I didn't assume you hadn't listened to it? Not sure what "it" is exactly, there's modern music out there for you it likely isn't on the charts or whatever but there's absolutely stuff you'll enjoy made every year. It's impossible for there not to be. It's up to you to look for it or to just dismiss modern music as a whole, if you choose the latter then people are going to bite back which i thought this whole thread is about.
If you cannot understand that, then, dammit, you must be extremely stupid or very young. If YOU like it, fine, I'm not about to bulling you like you lot did me, I merely said i didn't like, it sounds like noise... MY OPINION... what the f**k is so hard to understand....
I think this is an incredibly stupid comment but you didn't really give me anything to argue against.
OK.... apology accepted.
I didn't apologize.
Lets move on.... cancer is no picnic, but contrary to what Vicki said, I didn't mention it to get let off a fight... others are worse off than I am.
As i said best of luck mate, If you ever want to talk to someone about whatever don't hesitate to PM me.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 03:21 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9aHrgtf2zY
7.8 billion people think this song does not "such"!
OMG... this thread has morphed into the awful music thread...
here's one, NEVER liked this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwrCBu_ejVU
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 03:21 AM
7.9 billion people are wrong then :D
It's simple and deep - they just need to see that once the worst is over they are going torrealize it's all just a red rubber ball!
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 03:25 AM
What have you listened to exactly? Sounds like you're into Dad Rock what contemporaries did you listen to?
Your opinion is yours mate i'm not trying to take that away from you, but you did create a thread you knew was going to be controversial so let's not be baffled by the responses every time, huh. I didn't assume you hadn't listened to it? Not sure what "it" is exactly, there's modern music out there for you it likely isn't on the charts or whatever but there's absolutely stuff you'll enjoy made every year. It's impossible for there not to be. It's up to you to look for it or to just dismiss modern music as a whole, if you choose the latter then people are going to bite back which i thought this whole thread is about.
I think this is an incredibly stupid comment but you didn't really give me anything to argue against.
I didn't apologize.
As i said best of luck mate, If you ever want to talk to someone about whatever don't hesitate to PM me.
Whatever. Thing is, I thought this site was full of adults where the fair and free exchange of opinions and ideas was OK... like on most other adult sites. So yeah, I was mistaken. Next time, I'll lie through my teeth so the bullies don't want to try and bite me.
Opinions, Hell no, I don't have an opinion, who said i did?
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 03:26 AM
It's simple and deep - they just need to see that once the worst is over they are going torrealize it's all just a red rubber ball!
ohhhh... a red rubber ball... is it shiny?
Whatever. Thing is, I thought this site was full of adults where the fair and free exchange of opinions and ideas was OK... like on most other adult sites. So yeah, I was mistaken. Next time, I'll lie through my teeth so the bullies don't want to try and bite me.
Opinions, Hell no, I don't have an opinion, who said i did?
You weren't mistaken, adults might disagree with your antiquated views and they are free to say so.
You aren't wrong and i don't think anyone is saying you are you've just came in with controversial opinions and members that disagree are going to say so.
I'm not bullying you mate read my last couple of posts back please.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 03:34 AM
ohhhh... a red rubber ball... is it shiny?
Yes, that's just the thing = after you die there's no heaven, there's no God, we were all wrong... it just a big red rubber ball!
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 03:37 AM
Now some classic tunes:
Try NOT to sing along (I dare ya)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_IkJnTus6Q
Mr Minio
02-11-18, 08:11 AM
The only sh*t is coming from you, since WHEN is expressing an opinion being closed minded, did I tell YOU your music was crap? NO, I just said I didn't like it. what the F**K is the matter with some people of this site. Time to start complaining to the admin.
The fact is.... I owned MY OPINIONS.... I never said everyone should agree with me... did I? So rather than me getting abusive with you... I'll do like any former Brit colonist would say.... P**S off ... oh, and have a nice day.
It was MY OPINION!!! Live with it, if you cannot live with it, then F**K OFF, no one is forcing you to post here OR making you NOT listen to the music YOU LIKE.... right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2R8eHhkvSs
But seriously dude, if you're sick, I think it's better to spend your time with your family rather than waste it on wanton Internet quarrels.
Hit Girl
02-11-18, 08:55 AM
Well, it certainly is clear that people are just as passionate about their music as they are about the movies they love.
As for me, I have very eclectic tastes, Tchaikovsky, Strauss, Green Day and Foo Fighters.
I love the musical scores of John Williams, John Barry, Elmer Bernstein and Bernard Herrmann.
Pop, ballads, rock, heavy metal...I don't even know how most would be classified. For me it's on a song by song basis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSjPoUtlkyk
matt72582
02-11-18, 09:58 AM
Dave Brubeck - Take Five
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHdU5sHigYQ
Wow what an overactive *******. And a hypocrite for calling everyone else children when he acts like that. And in denial for being close minded. I used to be somewhat like that when I was younger. Glad I grew out of it.
MovieGal
02-11-18, 10:49 AM
F*ck IT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI25fVw7PIE
Kind of amazing nobody reported any of this to me (I'm just seeing it now). I was going to go through and wipe out a couple of pages of posts, but I guess it's mostly died down, and unfortunately I can't find a way to delete the slightly-over-the-line stuff without having to delete a lot of perfectly reasonable responses.
For future reference, two salient facts to consider:
1) Something being an opinion does not preclude it from criticism.
2) Opinions can be expressed in more or less confrontational ways.
"I don't care for music genre X" is a pretty benign opinion. "Music genre X is stupid and not really music" is a pretty provocative one. You should be prepared for disagreement on either, because this is a public forum and not just a private chat with a friend, but you should definitely expect it on the second, which actually sounds like it was deliberately phrased to generate controversy.
*turns around and walks straight back out again, singing*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d23TGmzAw3A
Dave Brubeck - Take Five
I love this song. I could listen it over and over again. Brilliant.
Monkeypunch
02-11-18, 03:11 PM
A friend of mine when I was younger always said "a good tune is a good tune," and I tend to live by that. There's something good (to me) in every single genre. I'm not going to disparage anyone's taste in anything, it's all subjective, but I can also never say "I don't like (fill in whatever genre here," because I always end up finding something that surprises me. I can even say with all seriousness that Miley Cyrus has some great tunes. "Wrecking Ball" is just intense and cathartic.
My personal favorite music almost always comes from the 1970's or 90's. Those are probably my two favorite decades. That said, as I get older, I appreciate some of my teenage favorites less. Nirvana was my favorite band at 15, now I think that with the exception of a few songs, they're not as great as everyone says. Nevermind is still a great hard rock album, but In Utero is just a grating mess of bad songcraft with a few decent singles. Other bands, like Smashing Pumpkins and Primus just go up in my esteem as the years go by.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 05:10 PM
You weren't mistaken, adults might disagree with your antiquated views and they are free to say so.
You aren't wrong and i don't think anyone is saying you are you've just came in with controversial opinions and members that disagree are going to say so.
I'm not bullying you mate read my last couple of posts back please.
YES, free to disagree, but NOT to flame and insult. SERIOUSLY.... do you think their response was OK, then this site has a major problem. If you want controversial, I'll tell you what I REALLY think of Trump, and a few of my other opinions regarding the state of the USA right now... and most of all, its people, some Americans think democracy was invented in the USA, they think Jesus was an American and go look at all the YOutube videos where Americans cannot even answer general knowledge questions... and its not getting any better, its getting worse if you compare the videos from 5 years ago to today.
Ask them who the V.P. and they don't know, but ask them who Kim K is and they know what Kim had for breakfast for the part 6 months....
The thing is, if this were an ADULT site, then the ADULTS here would know all about opinions and closed minds, but they DON'T... the fact that it was Americans that attacked me speaks VOLUMES of the state of your education system. The first thing we learn is to feel free to voice an opinion, controversial or not, others will respect you, they may disagree or agree, but they will respect you and state their opinion, which will also be respected.
In this thread, I have been abused, insulted, flamed and lied about... and you consider that NORMAL for an "adult" site?
An adult would have disagreed with me, said so but also said I was entitled to hold my opinion....
SOME on this site are NOT adults. We may disagree on that point, but flaming, abusing and bullying IS NEVER OK.... *NEVER*
So STOP trying to blame me by saying it was a controversial subject... it WASN'T..... a controversial subject is like this...
"Most Americans are stupid and arrogant, they think the sun shines out of their A-holes, and we not only laugh at them, but pity them..... And our leaders are not crooks who lie on an hourly basis!"
Now I do NOT agree with that opinion (except the last bit)... but its one that is spread far and wide by the non American peoples, because of exactly what happened to me here and YOUR reaction to it.
I know there are good people here, SMART people, the one that came up with the movie title I was looking for in a matter of hours is a case in point... but you also have the trolls... the "you cannot have an opinion, you have a closed mind"... and then try to bully me into leaving the site.... seriously???? You're OK with that???? If they refuse to hear another opinion without getting stupid and start bullying then it is their minds that are closed....
Bullying is NEVER OK!
Miss Vicky
02-11-18, 05:15 PM
Kiwi1960 Please read Yoda's post in this thread. He is the forum administrator.
the fact that it was Americans that attacked me speaks VOLUMES of the state of your education system.
I'm Scottish, Iroqouis is Australian.
So STOP trying to blame me by saying it was a controversial subject... it WASN'T..... a controversial subject is like this...
Of course it is a controversial subject. You said new music is terrible and specific popular genres aren't music. People aren't going to take kindly to their tastes and interests being attacked in that way.
"Most Americans are stupid and arrogant, they think the sun shines out of their A-holes, and we not only laugh at them, but pity them..... And our leaders are not crooks who lie on an hourly basis!"
I'd go for xenophobic and ignorant but controversial works too, sure.
I know there are good people here, SMART people, the one that came up with the movie title I was looking for in a matter of hours is a case in point... but you also have the trolls... the "you cannot have an opinion, you have a closed mind"... and then try to bully me into leaving the site.... seriously???? You're OK with that???? If they refuse to hear another opinion without getting stupid and start bullying then it is their minds that are closed....
Bullying is NEVER OK!
I disagree that people were bullying you, you've given as good as you got. You've called everyone children among loads of other things. Anyway, don't think this is going anywhere everyone should probably just drop it at this point.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 05:20 PM
CHILDREN of this ADULT site, read this and LEARN!
https://kidshealth.org/en/teens/tips-disagree.html
5 Ways to (Respectfully) Disagree
It's easier to agree than disagree. But we can learn a lot from conversations where we don't see eye to eye — if we can listen and talk rationally, that is.
Unfortunately, many us either shy away completely from disagreements or lose it when things don't go our way. These 5 tips can help keep disagreements constructive — whether you're talking to a parent, friend, or anyone else:
Don't make it personal. If you get upset, it can help to remember you're mad at the idea or concept your parent (or friend, coach, coworker, etc.) is raising, not the person.
Avoid putting down the other person's ideas and beliefs. If you've ever been on the receiving end of someone's tirade or put-downs, you know how valuable using respectful language and behavior can be. So instead of saying what you might be thinking ("That's a stupid idea!"), try: "I don't agree, and here's why." Resist the temptation to yell, use sarcasm, or make derogatory comments and you'll have a much better chance of getting your point across.
Use "I" statements to communicate how you feel, what you think, and what you want or need. Using "you" statements can sound argumentative. For example, telling your mom or dad, "You always remind me about my chores on Wednesdays when you know I have a lot of homework" has a very different tone from "I'm feeling pressured because I have a lot of homework tonight. Can I do those chores tomorrow?"
Listen to the other point of view. Being a good listener is a way of showing that you respect and understand the other person's perspective. That makes it more likely he or she will do the same for you. When the other person is talking, try to stop yourself from thinking about why you disagree or what you'll say next. Instead, focus on what's being said. When it's your turn to talk, repeat any key points the other person made to show you listened and heard what was said. Then calmly present your case and why you disagree.
Stay calm. This is the most important thing you can do to keep a conversation on track. Of course, it's a huge challenge to stay calm and rational when you feel angry or passionate about something — especially if the person you're talking to gets heated. You may need to be the mature one who manages the conversation, even if the other person is a parent or someone who should know better.
Respect goes beyond difficult conversations, of course. Being helpful and considerate toward family members, teachers, or coaches in our everyday actions helps all of us (again, parents included!) establish a foundation for those times when we might disagree.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 05:22 PM
I'm Scottish, Iroqouis is Australian.
Of course it is a controversial subject. You said new music is terrible and specific popular genres aren't music. People aren't going to take kindly to their tastes and interests being attacked in that way.
I'd go for xenophobic and ignorant but controversial works too, sure.
I disagree that people were bullying you, you've given as good as you got. You've called everyone children among loads of other things. Anyway, don't think this is going anywhere everyone should probably just drop it at this point.
I wasn't refering to YOU attacking me... but the others. The word Iroquois is actually American, a name of an Indian tribe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois
I was giving as good as I got AFTER the attacks started, please, feel free to show me in my first post where I was abusive.
You do NOTHING to help this site... you are just showing me that you will side with the trolls because you have known them longer????
Man oh man,.... and I'm still having to defend myself ....
Avoid putting down the other person's ideas and beliefs. If you've ever been on the receiving end of someone's tirade or put-downs, you know how valuable using respectful language and behavior can be. So instead of saying what you might be thinking ("That's a stupid idea!"), try: "I don't agree, and here's why." Resist the temptation to yell, use sarcasm, or make derogatory comments and you'll have a much better chance of getting your point across.
Stay calm. This is the most important thing you can do to keep a conversation on track. Of course, it's a huge challenge to stay calm and rational when you feel angry or passionate about something — especially if the person you're talking to gets heated. You may need to be the mature one who manages the conversation, even if the other person is a parent or someone who should know better.
You should probably carefully read these two.
Man, I was gettin' hiiiigh, high HIGH last night on the red, bebeh! Glad things have calmed down, though.
A ll prog metal is trash except dredg el cielo..there, I said it, lol
MovieGal
02-11-18, 05:30 PM
LOL there are many trolls on this site.. it wont change... and each other attacking each other is a bit funny..
again F*ck it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8ZqFlw6hYg
(my ex loved slayer!)
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 05:34 PM
Man, I was gettin' hiiiigh, high HIGH last night on the red, bebeh! Glad things have calmed down, though.
A ll prog metal is trash except dredg el cielo..there, I said it, lol
Is that wine, Joel?
I attacked AFTER I was attacked, I was polite and courteous TILL THE ****ING ABUSE STARTED.... and you STILL defending the bullies by using what I said against them towards me...
**** THIS IS BULL**** SITE.....
Make a post, get hounded to f**king leave, The trolls and bullies did nothing wrong, OH NO.... its all the new guys fault...
Well, F**K YOU, ... even when you guys KNOW you were ****ing wrong, its still my fault... JESUS F***ING CHRIST!!!
Are their ANY adults on this site that have a serious debate without rewriting history to blame the victim, THAT makes you a bully as well.
Just go away, Camo, if you're not going to be fair, jsut... go away. Ignore this thread, ignore me... you side with the bullies, defend them, that makes you a bully as well. You rewrite history to blame me and that makes you a bully. DON'T bother saying anything again.
Way to stay calm. Think both sides have been awful here, you started the thread and chose to attack very popular things in a derogatary way as Yoda pointed out, this wouldn't have happened if you didn't do that. But yes the other members behaviour has been just as bad as yours. Is that ok? Or do i need to say you are totally in the right and that you saying "F*ck you" to me is perfectly reasonable as well as all the other insults your posts have been laden with?
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 05:37 PM
LOL there are many trolls on this site.. it wont change... and each other attacking each other is a bit funny..
again F*ck it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8ZqFlw6hYg
(my ex loved slayer!)
All the more reason to leave. I am seriously thinking about that. I'm going to log onto a few sites that rate online forums for things like, adults vs kids, trolls... etc etc... I have to be honest, this site is going to get a bad rating from me.
Its one thing to do what the trolls did... but then for someone to come along an d blame me.... making out I was to blame.... really.... OMG, was he for real? Not only have I met trolls here.... but now, along comes the Troll apologist! "They did nothing wrong, its all your fault... blah blah blah"....
What will be next....an apologist for the apologist?
MovieGal
02-11-18, 05:40 PM
All the more reason to leave. I am seriously thinking about that. I'm going to log onto a few sites that rate online forums for things like, adults vs kids, trolls... etc etc... I have to be honest, this site is going to get a bad rating from me.
Its one thing to do what the trolls did... but then for someone to come along an d blame me.... making out I was to blame.... really.... OMG, was he for real? Not only have I met trolls here.... but now, along comes the Troll apologist! "They did nothing wrong, its all your fault... blah blah blah"....
What will be next....an apologist for the apologist?
All I have done is post music.. music which you said s*cked... you know what THAT IS YOUR OPINION. I have read through what was posted and you were attacking people just as much as they attacking your criticisms. You are the one who needs to stop, listen and think. You are just as much as fault as anyone else who commented you here.
Anyway... .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpgTC9MDx1o
"They did nothing wrong, its all your fault... blah blah blah"....
Yeah because that's what i said.
MovieGal
02-11-18, 05:46 PM
F*ck IT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYOCR6ZXO8M
Is that wine, Joel?
Yeah, it is. It's my only real vice. Once a week, a full bottle. I'm a lightweight. Little food, mostly wine and a nice, comfy chair with my tunes blasting. That's why I get a little passionate and bullsih, ha. I actually still stand behind about 90% of what I said last night, BTW.
First thing's first: I've removed some overtly personal posts, and will continue to remove any more in that vein, issuing warnings or even temporary bannings as necessary. Please don't make me do that.
Second, to Kiwi: earlier, you posted "tips" about how to disagree. One of them was to avoid personalizing the issue. I'm not really sure how you reconcile that with calling people "children" or saying things like "you are sick."
Regardless, this needs to stop. Immediately. We can continue to discuss this, and I'll be glad to calmly and respectfully explain why I don't think this behavior is proportional or reasonable using even the parameters you posted earlier. But there aren't going to be any more curse-filled diatribes about how horrible people are for disagreeing.
MovieGal
02-11-18, 05:52 PM
Yoda
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7budMRwZvNGJ3pyE/giphy.gif
MovieGal
02-11-18, 05:55 PM
I dont give a f*ck what anyone says.. this is an amazing song!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gS-Qsbf5Uw
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 05:56 PM
All I have done is post music.. music which you said s*cked... you know what THAT IS YOUR OPINION. I have read through what was posted and you were attacking people just as much as they attacking your criticisms. You are the one who needs to stop, listen and think. You are just as much as fault as anyone else who commented you here.
Anyway... .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpgTC9MDx1o
Was my first post abusive? I only got abusive when they got abusive. To me, your music probably does suck.... its my opinion, its not ****ing law... is my opinion worth ANYTHING to you, you place what value you want on it, if you disagree with it, then very little value.... right.... but to attack me for having an opinion which is worthless to you is....
You guys are taking my opinions WAY TOO ****ING PERSONAL..... I wasn't attacking YOU with my opinion, I was attacking the music, and its been here for decades so survived much more than me stating my opinion... it will be here long after you lot die and go to Troll hell....
Yes, this site is full of trolls that don't know how to respect opinions, you want me to respect your opinion, but you disrespect mine??? SERIOUSLY????? You act like children. Then you blame me for getting upset.... for defending myself.... but really, I'm getting upset because I'm trying to make you see how hypocritical you are... YOU can hold your opinion, but I'm not.... you insult, flame, and bully me, and now, blaming me for starting it....
Where did I even say something like "Its crap, you shouldn't listen to it, its noise"....
When what I said was... "I don't like it, to me, its noise...."
I spoke for myself, MYSELF, My opinion, and you blast me for having an opinion.... I shouldn't NEED to teach adults this.... children learn this at school, along with to share things.
The fact that I'm trying to teach you that is what makes me angry. I shouldn't NEED to teach you that.
If you don't like my opinion, then disagree and say so, politely.... that is how debates take place.... man, I hope none of you EVER run for office... I can see it now, the Senate dissolves into chaos because YOU disagreed with someone and then started attacking them.... sheesh,
MovieGal
02-11-18, 05:58 PM
Ok mofo people..
Have I attacked this guy? and explain why he is now attacking me?
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 05:58 PM
All I have done is post music.. music which you said s*cked... you know what THAT IS YOUR OPINION. I have read through what was posted and you were attacking people just as much as they attacking your criticisms. You are the one who needs to stop, listen and think. You are just as much as fault as anyone else who commented you here.
Anyway... .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpgTC9MDx1o
BTW, its only my opinion, and that doesn't mean much to you butt hat video you posted is good. I listened to the whole thing.
But, hey, its my opinion.... its not worth much.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 05:59 PM
Yeah because that's what i said.
No, you typed it.
No, you typed it.
Quote me then. Show me where i typed "They did nothing wrong, its all your fault" you can't because i didn't. I said their behaviour was just as bad as yours.
I wasn't attacking YOU with my opinion, I was attacking the music
And they weren't attacking YOU with their disagreement, they were attacking the idea.
I completely agree with you. On an adult site this discussion would've been handled differently and you probably could've eased into it before getting the shaft.
You seem nice, though. A/S/L?
You push me..YOU PUSH ME!!...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cvrjnK52KE
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 06:09 PM
First thing's first: I've removed some overtly personal posts, and will continue to remove any more in that vein, issuing warnings or even temporary bannings as necessary. Please don't make me do that.
Second, to Kiwi: earlier, you posted "tips" about how to disagree. One of them was to avoid personalizing the issue. I'm not really sure how you reconcile that with calling people "children" or saying things like "you are sick."
Regardless, this needs to stop. Immediately. We can continue to discuss this, and I'll be glad to calmly and respectfully explain why I don't think this behavior is proportional or reasonable using even the parameters you posted earlier. But there aren't going to be any more curse-filled diatribes about how horrible people are for disagreeing.
Order of things as they happened...
I posted, MY OPINIONS about the music I liked and disliked, I insulted no living person, never said anyone couldn't disagree.... just stated what I liked and disliked.
Then, I got attacked.... big time... was told I had a closed mind....
That was when I fought back... and gave as good as I got....
Then, when things were done, they said it was my fault from the start tried to blame the victim.
If you read the OP.... it is polite.... I use personal statements, like, I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE NOISE.....
I was abused, insulted and bullied.... then.... they said it was all my fault... My first post was an opinion, it wasn't attacking anyone else...
But the trolls attacked me and I have been defending myself ever since... now they want to blame me.... my original post was polite.... otherwise YOU would be deleting the whole thread ... right.... tell me where, in the OP, where I was being abusive to anyone..... I was being abusive to the music.... in an opinion, so disagree with me....
BULLYING IS NEVER OK!
I am entitled to have an opinion like anyone else... if I do not like your opinion, I will say so, with respect and politeness. Go and have a look to see who started the flaming, it was NOT me.
I will NOT be bullied into not voicing an opinion. If I like a movie.... I will say so, others may disagree, good on them, but some took my opinion and placed way too much value on it.... and then the excuses for the trolls were made... yeah, right.
BULLYING IS NEVER OK!
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 06:15 PM
Quote me then. Show me where i typed "They did nothing wrong, its all your fault" you can't because i didn't. I said their behaviour was just as bad as yours.
I meant, you didn't say it.... if you had, I would never have heard you.
You typed it, and I saw the letters on my screen.
THAT is how misunderstanding take place... people misunderstood what said in my OP.... I never said anything other than "to me, it is noise".... and you all took that as a personal attack. You could have disagreed.... but you didn't, well, you did, but there wasn't any respect.
So, you think my opinion is wrong.... FINE! I can live with that, we are all entitled to an opinion, I'm not going to flame you or bully you for having it. Why would I, if you like that stuff, then good for you.
Maybe that is how others should have dealt with my opinion.
Citizen Rules
02-11-18, 06:18 PM
Can we all just chill please?
You typed it, and I saw the letters on my screen.
Nope. I didn't type it you didn't see it, you applied words to me i never typed to justify your behaviour to yourself.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 06:25 PM
Here's a song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUhDoCx8zc
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 06:30 PM
And they weren't attacking YOU with their disagreement, they were attacking the idea.
"you have a closed mind"...... but of course, I cannot go back and find the evidence now as you deleted the "bad" posts. Oh well. Should have seen that coming and taken screenshots.
The thing is, if people like punk and heavy metal, then FINE, why would I stop them enjoying something they like?
When I said "I think is sounds like noise".... then the operative word is "I".... the trolls took MY personal opinion way too personally.... and by denying me my right to express an opinion, started to bully me.
My opinion isn't going to change anyone's opinion... unless the already agree with me... but they tried to force me to change my opinion with bullying. They can have an opinion and I cannot?
This is a movie site, what would happen if the trolls came out and attacked a person for saying a movie was awful? You would step and and deal to the trolls fast right, because the OP is entitled to their opinion, its the thinking behind this entire site. But from now on, I'm going to have to be careful about expressing a person opinion on anything because of the trolls and their supporters.
That is a slippery slope to be on. Personal opinions are just that, but some take that way too personal.
I will continue to be honest with my personal opinions.... it DOES sound like noise.... and the last STAR WARS movie was bad.... OH wait.... that is ok isn't it, to say that? I won't get attacked by the trolls.....
OK.... moving on.... what music do people enjoy... or dislike, you heard my opinions, now I want to hear yours... and yes, I will respect everyone's opinion on that subject. Music is about choice.... I dislike PUNK, but you may love it and hate the Big Band era music... fine... say so and lets debate it.... as it should be.
First, can you kindly stop repeating the same few things over and over? Capitalizing words, repeating phrases, swearing...it serves no purpose. You've made yourself perfectly clear. There is nobody in this thread (or, ya' know, hemisphere) that's confused about your stance on bullying, or your belief that you've been bullied. It's just venting at this point.
Now, on to the actual issue:
Order of things as they happened...
I posted, MY OPINIONS about the music I liked and disliked, I insulted no living person, never said anyone couldn't disagree.... just stated what I liked and disliked.
Then, I got attacked.... big time... was told I had a closed mind....
That was when I fought back... and gave as good as I got....
Then, when things were done, they said it was my fault from the start tried to blame the victim.
The problem is this: "I got attacked." That's where I get stuck. I don't think you were attacked: I think people were criticizing an idea you expressed, and in response you immediately and irrevocably escalated the conflict.
This is the post where it got ugly (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1865777#post1865777). Minio said it was a "narrow-minded thought," and you told him to "p*ss off" and suggested he should be stripped of his ability to post links. Before this point, tensions were already a little high, but the focus was still on the idea expressed. This was the post that overtly personalized the issue, it came from you, and it was clearly beyond anything that had been posted to that point.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 06:33 PM
I dont give a f*ck what anyone says.. this is an amazing song!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gS-Qsbf5Uw
I agree, and a from a good movie too!
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 06:34 PM
Ok mofo people..
Have I attacked this guy? and explain why he is now attacking me?
Who is attacking you, certainly not me. :(
Sorry if you thought I had.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIiZ3vvZ78s
I will continue to be honest with my personal opinions.... it DOES sound like noise....
OK, I think everyone gets it now.
So, what music are you listening to this fine morning over there on the other side of the pond that's making you happy and relaxed? I'm listening to some Cuban rap but I wont talk about that now in this thread. I need a coffee instead. Ta Ta for now.
MovieGal
02-11-18, 06:43 PM
These are my opinions..
1) As an adult, your opinions won't change how someone view's you. If they don't like you, they just don't. Now is that your fault? No, you are who you are. That's their fault, they can't learn to accept you.
2) You need to have a wide variety of interests. Why do you ask? Because enjoying many things makes it easy for others to talk to you. You need to learn to appreciate things overall but still can have your likes and dislikes within that topic.
3) Learn what "generalization" versus "instantiation" means. Most people get upset when they think they are being singled out when the comment was made in a "generalized" context.
4) When things don't go the way you want, learn to walk away. It's easy, it stops everything and you are worry-free.
and I leave you with Chinese Opera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePSDPHQoQ2A
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 06:49 PM
I completely agree with you. On an adult site this discussion would've been handled differently and you probably could've eased into it before getting the shaft.
You seem nice, though. A/S/L?
57.5 (born in Holland in 1960, but lived in New Zealand since I was 6 months old!
Male! Well, at least the last time I looked... no, male, 100%, my wife just assured me I am still a guy!
New Zealand.
here is my full story...
Born in Asten, Noord Brabant, The Netherlands in 1960. Came to NZ with my family six months later.
Actually, they were WW2 war refugees, they came out here just after the war, went back for a holiday and I was born... they planned it that way so I could have dual citizenship.) My mothers family hid Jews in their barn during the war, but they were caught. I'm proud of that fact.
At the age of 18, I started working for a political party here as an activist. I beat up four conservatives once and spent 6 weeks in prison for it. I wear that as a badge of honor.
In 2001, I was diagnosed with MS.... and since then, I have been breaking down faster and faster.... after that, I had a heart attack, then diagnosed with a Sleep apnea, diabetes and a few other things. September last year, I was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer.
I take a Gene Therapy pill of that, it will extend my life... how much remains to be seen.
My wife, Rianne, came over from Holland and we were married three years ago on February 10th, which means we celebrated out 3rd wedding anniversary a few days ago. :)
She is a year young than I am.... and in perfect health... :( She must have gotten my helping of "luck" when God was handing that out. :)
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 06:50 PM
Nope. I didn't type it you didn't see it, you applied words to me i never typed to justify your behaviour to yourself.
Move on, already.
Thanks in advance.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 06:56 PM
Here's a song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUhDoCx8zc
Not bad..... probably get laughed at for posting this... but.... I like it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KecIdlEAKhU&t=155s
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 07:06 PM
First, can you kindly stop repeating the same few things over and over? Capitalizing words, repeating phrases, swearing...it serves no purpose. You've made yourself perfectly clear. There is nobody in this thread (or, ya' know, hemisphere) that's confused about your stance on bullying, or your belief that you've been bullied. It's just venting at this point.
Now, on to the actual issue:
The problem is this: "I got attacked." That's where I get stuck. I don't think you were attacked: I think people were criticizing an idea you expressed, and in response you immediately and irrevocably escalated the conflict.
This is the post where it got ugly (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1865777#post1865777). Minio said it was a "narrow-minded thought," and you told him to "p*ss off" and suggested he should be stripped of his ability to post links. Before this point, tensions were already a little high, but the focus was still on the idea expressed. This was the post that overtly personalized the issue, it came from you, and it was clearly beyond anything that had been posted to that point.
Lets leave it, but personally, I have always known that if you disagree with an opinion, you say so, politely... its how your Senate, Congress and all the States in the USA do things... they debate new laws and they Keep it polite. Yes, they disagreed but they added insults and whatever, again, no screen shots so... I have ... am forced ..to acdept your version of history.
This is what happens when you do not treat an opinion with respect....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50XRz65GKwE
How its done in New Zealand (we have a boring democracy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px-ATxSHGU4
I fell asleep.... John Key was the worst PM in our history.
and I leave you with Chinese Opera
Chinese opera irritates me on a physical level. My western ear cannot cope with it at all. I had a fascinating time in a very old village in China listening to "Fu manchu" talking about this very conundrum.
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 09:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIiZ3vvZ78s
Oh my.... GOD!!!!
Sorry, if you like it, fine, but I don't. If I had listened it more, I think I would have gone insane. Please tell me you don;t like it as well... but if you do, so be it... (shudder)
Kiwi1960
02-11-18, 09:27 PM
Chinese opera irritates me on a physical level. My western ear cannot cope with it at all. I had a fascinating time in a very old village in China listening to "Fu manchu" talking about this very conundrum.
I can put up with it, just! But hey, 1 billion Chinese must like it.
Miss Vicky
02-11-18, 09:29 PM
Raffi is children's music. I doubt Swan was being serious, unless he likes it for nostalgic reasons.
MovieGal
02-11-18, 09:32 PM
I enjoy musicals and opera
but heck put music to a film and make it Gerard Butler singing..
mmmmmm <3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cstkOZXuVuo
MovieGal
02-11-18, 09:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCFEk6Y8TmM
I can put up with it, just! But hey, 1 billion Chinese must like it.
Ofcourse, because their ear is attuned to it. Maybe they cant attune to some of our western music. god knows I cant, but I wont call those genres crap. Lots of people like music that I dont like and that's cool. Lots of people hate mongolian throat singing and I love it.
Would you call The Haka music? I do. I love it and to get back specifically to your OP, that gets my blood boiling. I even watch the rugby when the ABs are playing. Fantastic stuff.:up:
Hey for your cancer stuff, you can start a thread about it if you want. That way you keep it all in one place and I'd love to see your blog.
And maybe settle on the troll accusations. I've only been here just on one year and I would certainly not think of those regulars you keep calling trolls as such. They're very knowledgable on film, which is what we are all here for, and very helpful if you ask about things, and if they think they can help, they will.
Many happy returns for your anniversary.
edit for superfluous ' which drives me insane.
MovieGal
02-11-18, 10:07 PM
There are trolls here but every forum has their trolls and their ....... damn I wish I could post what I want..
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 10:17 PM
There are trolls here but every forum has their trolls and their ....... damn I wish I could post what I want..
What do you want to post?
MovieGal
02-11-18, 10:19 PM
What do you want to post?
its best that I dont.. lol Yoda might ban me....
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 10:21 PM
its best that I dont.. lol Yoda might ban me....
If it's in violation of site guidelines, can you give us a hint?
20 questions: Would it be in text or in a photo?
(Is that considered two questions?)
Citizen Rules
02-11-18, 10:26 PM
....At the age of 18, I started working for a political party here as an activist. I beat up four conservatives once and spent 6 weeks in prison for it. I wear that as a badge of honor.
That's twice you've mentioned that. Care to elaborate on it?
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 10:35 PM
That's twice you've mentioned that. Care to elaborate on it?
http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/starship-troopers.jpg
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 12:28 AM
Ofcourse, because their ear is attuned to it. Maybe they cant attune to some of our western music. god knows I cant, but I wont call those genres crap. Lots of people like music that I dont like and that's cool. Lots of people hate mongolian throat singing and I love it.
Would you call The Haka music? I do. I love it and to get back specifically to your OP, that gets my blood boiling. I even watch the rugby when the ABs are playing. Fantastic stuff.:up:
Hey for your cancer stuff, you can start a thread about it if you want. That way you keep it all in one place and I'd love to see your blog.
And maybe settle on the troll accusations. I've only been here just on one year and I would certainly not think of those regulars you keep calling trolls as such. They're very knowledgable on film, which is what we are all here for, and very helpful if you ask about things, and if they think they can help, they will.
Many happy returns for your anniversary.
edit for superfluous ' which drives me insane.
The Haka is a war dance, the music is incidental to the gestures, the tongue poking etc etc. It is to intimidate the enemy. :)
What got me about the attacks, was that they could have disagreed with one poster, the first posting a large number of videos which were not so subtle attacks on me... if you want to disagree with me, then I wont stop you, but if I am polite to others then they should be polite to me.
We disagree but you are not insulting or bullying me. That is how adults do it.
As for your love of Mongolian throat warbling, I'm not sure if I've ever herard it before, BUT, I'm an Edith Piaf fan... I suspect that comes CLOSE for the Western world... :)
I know there are better versions and better examples, but I have to go cook dinner for Rianne shortly, so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzeLynj1GYM
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 12:33 AM
jazz of course
I never used to like jazz, but then, not sure when, 10 or 20 years ago, I started perking up my ears whenever I heard it... please, DONT GET ME WRONG, But jazz is messy.... messy music, and it huts my ears, but some Jazz, its good. But that really depends on what is being played. Messy music is one thing, but if you enjoy it, then good for you. I'm sure you would hate some of my choices of music too.
I know what the haka is.:)
I also know who Edith Piaf was.
Yes, both are music to my ears. To someone else, maybe not so.
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 12:36 AM
There are trolls here but every forum has their trolls and their ....... damn I wish I could post what I want..
Post what you want.... if its your opinion and doesn't flame or bully anyone then I won't tell on you... in fact, I admire honesty. That is exactly why I will NEVER back away from posting an opinion, the minute you start questing the wisdom of posting what you think, the trolls have won.
Its that simple.
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 12:37 AM
If it's in violation of site guidelines, can you give us a hint?
20 questions: Would it be in text or in a photo?
(Is that considered two questions?)
Why not travel into the future, hear the reply, and then come back.
Dammit, Superman, stop being so dammed P.C. :)
MovieGal
02-12-18, 12:38 AM
Post what you want.... if its your opinion and doesn't flame or bully anyone then I won't tell on you... in fact, I admire honesty. That is exactly why I will NEVER back away from posting an opinion, the minute you start questing the wisdom of posting what you think, the trolls have won.
Its that simple.
I said what I had to say to Captain Steel in private... we will leave it that way.
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 12:43 AM
That's twice you've mentioned that. Care to elaborate on it?
When I'm sure the trolls won't attack me just for the fun of it!
They hired me, initially, to get young people out to vote. I then moved onto fact checking the opposition speeches. Then, I spent the time fighting for workers rights, and that is where I gained my absolute hatred of bullies. Many employers would try to bully workers into submission, then they tried it on me... and I fought back. Sure, I lost a few fights, but I'd always go down fighting... thank God we are more civilized here now, and our Government which was elected last year is starting to repair some of the draconian laws ever.... (sigh)
But will I miss it.... no.... but nor do I have any regrets. I served the people well and that it all that can be expected of me.
I'm one of the unknown activists that has, I think, made the world a slightly better place. I'm happy with that.
Captain Steel
02-12-18, 12:45 AM
Why not travel into the future, hear the reply, and then come back.
Dammit, Superman, stop being so dammed P.C. :)
So many people misunderstand the time travel scene in Superman (1978) - he wasn't literally making the Earth turn backwards (of course, that would wreak ecological havoc & kill everyone on the planet). It was a visual metaphor for him going faster than the speed of light and travelling back in time. But so many say "If he reversed the orbit of the Earth it wouldn't reverse time, it would just destroy everything on the planet."
It was just like those scenes in movies where you see the pages of a calendar flipping or a clock's hands moving forward - you're not supposed to think that someone moving calendar pages as part of the plot, it's just a film device to show the passage of time.
Totally off topic I know, but I always like to address it as an oft-cited movie reference! ;)
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 12:45 AM
That's twice you've mentioned that. Care to elaborate on it?
I didn't actually answer your question... but as I said, maybe soon when I'm sure the trolls will behave. I know they are here and some of you have told me they are here... I'm now on my guard. :mad:
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 12:46 AM
http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/starship-troopers.jpg
I like that. :)
I didn't actually answer your question... but as I said, maybe soon when I'm sure the trolls will behave. I know they are here and some of you have told me they are here... I'm now on my guard. :mad:
I'm not sure you understand what a troll is, but you're certainly being inflammatory, kiwi. Disagreeing with an opinion is not trolling.
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 12:51 AM
So many people misunderstand the time travel scene in Superman (1978) - he wasn't literally making the Earth turn backwards (of course, that would wreak ecological havoc & kill everyone on the planet). It was a visual metaphor for him going faster than the speed of light and travelling back in time. But so many say "If he reversed the orbit of the Earth it wouldn't reverse time, it would just destroy everything on the planet."
It was just like those scenes in movies where you see the pages of a calendar flipping or a clock's hands moving forward - you're not supposed to think that someone moving calendar pages as part of the plot, it's just a film device to show the passage of time.
Totally off topic I know, but I always like to address it as an oft-cited movie reference! ;)
Oh dear Superman.... I have been watching Doctor Who since I was knee high to a grasshopper... Yes, you saw the earth going backwards... it was an optical illusion, it was YOU going back so fast that time FOR YOU was going in reverse....
But even that explanation is totally Hollywood. If you had gone faster than light to make time go backwards, you would have been flung off into space, who knows where to.... Even Star Trek's going around the sun counter clockwise is silly....
As the Doctor said.... "A big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff"
:)
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 12:53 AM
I'm not sure you understand what a troll is, but you're certainly being inflammatory, kiwi. Disagreeing with an opinion is not trolling.
saying someone has a closed mind and suggesting they leave this site is being troll. If you disagree with me, FINE! Do so with respect and I will respect you back.
saying someone has a closed mind and suggesting they leave this site is being troll. If you disagree with me, FINE! Do so with respect and I will respect you back.
I cant recall the context. I'm sorry, but that is not really relevant to what I said. You keep repeating your troll agenda and accusations against the regulars of being trolls which they are not, way after the forum owner asked to stop the argy bargy. the others did but you keep pushing it. That's not very polite to the forum owner :up:
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 01:02 AM
I cant recall the context. I'm sorry, but that is not really relevant to what I said. You keep repeating your troll agenda and accusations against the regulars of being trolls which they are not, way after the forum owner asked it to stop the argy bargy. the others did but you keep pushing it. That's not very polite to the forum owner :up:
OK, let me say this. Go and look if you want, others in this thread said there were trolls here. I'm going by what they said, they should know. People keep going on about me being so mean to the people on this site... but all I did was post an opinion. If they disagreed then they could have said so.
Why do I keep mentioning trolls... because others keep mentioning them and saying I was in the wrong... if you want it to stop, THEN YOU STOP! I will not accept that I was in the wrong for having the God given right to post an opinion, I did so politely and with respect.... I did NOT deserve what was posted to me....
BUT.... STOP GOING ON ABOUT IT AND MOVE ON..... I am trying, I'm talking about time travel and Edith Piaf... please, move on already.
BUT.... STOP GOING ON ABOUT IT AND MOVE ON..... I am trying, I'm talking about time travel and Edith Piaf... please, move on already.
Nobody had mentioned it in pages until you brought it up. Maybe you should take your own advice and move on.
OK, let me say this. Go and look if you want, others in this thread said there were trolls here. I'm going by what they said, they should know. People keep going on about me being so mean to the people on this site... but all I did was post an opinion. If they disagreed then they could have said so.
Why do I keep mentioning trolls... because others keep mentioning them and saying I was in the wrong... if you want it to stop, THEN YOU STOP! I will not accept that I was in the wrong for having the God given right to post an opinion, I did so politely and with respect.... I did NOT deserve what was posted to me....
BUT.... STOP GOING ON ABOUT IT AND MOVE ON..... I am trying, I'm talking about time travel and Edith Piaf... please, move on already.
Please stop shouting at me. I'm not deef!
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 01:09 AM
Nobody had mentioned it in pages until you brought it up. Maybe you should take your own advice and move on.
A question was asked and I answered it honestly. Sadly, I am reluctant to post much now till I get to know the people here, I know how trolls work.
Again, if you want me to stop, MOVE ON.
Oh screw it... no, you are right, as always, everyone is right, I'm wrong, I'll just say in the shadows and not say another word anymore.
I know how trolls work.
Needs to be a song about ths
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 01:12 AM
OK, so can we get back to the topic as originally posted?
I will pick and choose what posts I reply to.
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 01:13 AM
Needs to be a song about ths
Sorry, I hit the REP button by mistake, hey, do you have anything GOOD to say? I'd really be interested to hear what GOOD things you have to say.
A question was asked and I answered it honestly. Sadly, I am reluctant to post much now till I get to know the people here, I know how trolls work.
Again, if you want me to stop, MOVE ON.
Oh screw it... no, you are right, as always, everyone is right, I'm wrong, I'll just say in the shadows and not say another word anymore.
Post all you want, but people are free to respond to your posts and you continuing to call members here trolls even when the discussion has moved on is flaming and trolling; very hypocritical.
Here's two instances of you trying to provoke people on the last page when the conversation moved on:
When I'm sure the trolls won't attack me just for the fun of it!
I didn't actually answer your question... but as I said, maybe soon when I'm sure the trolls will behave. I know they are here and some of you have told me they are here... I'm now on my guard. :mad:
Sorry, I hit the REP button by mistake, hey, do you have anything GOOD to say? I'd really be interested to hear what GOOD things you have to say.
LMAO. You sure have a unique and creative way of making friends.
OK, so can we get back to the topic as originally posted?
I will pick and choose what posts I reply to.
I'm going to continue to point out your hypocrisy because this is frankly astonishing. Everyone else had moved on before you started calling members here trolls, maybe stop that and move on.
DrJacoby
02-12-18, 01:20 AM
By suck you mean dislike... I'd have to agree.
When I said I liked most of the stuff Elvis did, yes, but there are a few of his I do not like, "In The Ghetto" is one.
I'd challenge you to find an artist, any artist, that had 100% hits and no duds... no one can say they did, even the masters (Classical music) had their duds.
What my point is, is that saying something sucks or not, is meaningless to anybody but the person saying it.
I bet some people would punch someone if they insulted the music they like :laugh:
.....but I bet you'd hate what I listen to anyway :D
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 01:23 AM
I'm going to continue to point out your hypocrisy because this is frankly astonishing. Everyone else had moved on before you started calling members here trolls, maybe stop that and move on.
So I made a mistake. I was trying to explain why I took the attitude I did... if I wasn't allowed to call them trolls, then what? Children? Idiots???
That is why I said I was wrong, lets move on, but you are reluctatnt to do so. Fine.... I'll go, you wont see me anymore. Like Viki wanted, I'll leave the site. You're NEVER going to drop it are you????
I hope Yoda bans you for that statement. You are saying you are going to hound me no matter what... fine, enjoy YOUR site, Camo, I was anaware YOU were the owner.
So I made a mistake. I was trying to explain why I took the attitude I did... if I wasn't allowed to call them trolls, then what? Children? Idiots???
Those are all attacks, that's against the rules here. And again it's incredibly hypocritical of you when that's exactly what you've been rallying against.
That is why I said I was wrong, lets move on, but you are reluctatnt to do so. Fine.... I'll go, you wont see me anymore. Like Viki wanted, I'll leave the site. You're NEVER going to drop it are you????
You are the one who can't move on. The conversation had moved on and you continued to call people trolls, it was you who did this no one made you type it. Examine your own behaviour.
I hope Yoda bans you for that statement. You are saying you are going to hound me no matter what... fine, enjoy YOUR site, Camo, I was anaware YOU were the owner.
I'm saying as long as you continue attacking people and provoking people while calling others trolls i'll continue to point out your hypocrisy.
Like just stop calling members trolls in unrelated posts, not sure why that's so impossible for you.
Think you meant that PM for Yoda Kiwi, you sent it to me.
Miss Vicky
02-12-18, 01:34 AM
Here's a link that you might find useful, Kiwi1960
MovieForums.com Site Rules (https://www.movieforums.com/community/rules.php)
Please pay particular attention to these sections:
No Swearing
You can't say anything you can't usually say on network television, which means only the lighter swear words are generally permitted. You may, however, censor certain words with asterisks and the like. The worst of the bunch (you know what they are) aren't allowed under any circumstances. Sorry, but you just don't need them to express yourself.
No Harassment
Judged on a case-by-case basis, though usually defined as a string of unnecessarily personal insults with no real effort to have an actual discussion.
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 01:43 AM
Does it matter. I made a mistake using the word "trolls"... I wasn't aware I was using it, YES, it was wrong of me, I said sorry, but that does NOT give you the right to bully me "to expose your hypocrisy".... I already said I hate bullies to death.... I made a mistake, I will not call you people trolls anymore.... but I will call you a bully if you carry out your threat. I think I'd be justified if I did. Right?
Captain Steel
02-12-18, 01:44 AM
Oh dear Superman.... I have been watching Doctor Who since I was knee high to a grasshopper... Yes, you saw the earth going backwards... it was an optical illusion, it was YOU going back so fast that time FOR YOU was going in reverse....
But even that explanation is totally Hollywood. If you had gone faster than light to make time go backwards, you would have been flung off into space, who knows where to.... Even Star Trek's going around the sun counter clockwise is silly....
As the Doctor said.... "A big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff"
:)
Well, I am working on building a time machine at home, and I have gotten it to actually work, but the problem is it only goes in one direction: forward... and it goes a regular speed... so it's kind of hard to tell when it's working! ;)
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 01:45 AM
Here's a song I really like.... calms me down, perfect time to listen to it again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPpd-6X3tEo
Does it matter. I made a mistake using the word "trolls"... I wasn't aware I was using it, YES, it was wrong of me, I said sorry, but that does NOT give you the right to bully me "to expose your hypocrisy".... I already said I hate bullies to death.... I made a mistake, I will not call you people trolls anymore.... but I will call you a bully if you carry out your threat. I think I'd be justified if I did. Right?
Pointing out continued hostility and negative behaviours in a calm and civil way without any personal attacks like i've been doing is not bullying.
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 01:47 AM
Well, I am working on building a time machine at home, and I have gotten it to actually work, but the problem is it only goes in one direction: forward... and it goes a regular speed... so it's kind of hard to tell when it's working! ;)
Well, if you stand in a room, against a wall, and walk to the other side, then congrats, you're a time traveler... it took time to walk from one wall to the other.
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 01:48 AM
Pointing out continued hostility and negative behaviours in a calm and civil way without any personal attacks like i've been doing is not bullying.
You're not going to drop it are you.
OK, at least I know where I stand now. Go talk to yourself.
You keep responding to me. You even asked me a question there so i answered you.
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 02:13 AM
The Welsh have incredible voices... do you agree? Two examples.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8ft371DLlo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75YeHNzsNc8
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 02:32 AM
The Battle Hymn Of The Republic has always made me emotional... some people reckoned I should have been born an American, but its more than that, the tune... and the lyrics can STIR you up, get your blood boiling... make you patriotic, no matter which nation you live in, more, it can fire up your emotions to go out and kick some commie butt.... or, in other words, it can make you appreciate the freedoms we all have, no matte where we live, and if you don;t live in a land that is free, these songs can inspire you to make it free......
This song is a story, as told by Orson Welles...a story, with music, can be just as inspiring as any song....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GCfM60RriM
But then, anyone old enough to remember Gomer Pyle? real name, Jim Nabors? He was an accomplished singer as well as an actor, its just a pity he was always cast in comedies (or so it looks...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xfZ0K4Nd68
And as a side note, the one and only John Wayne gets into the story telling business as well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuteyiYN6js
And this is how he explains "Taps".....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDakzCZ3ZdE
Sorry, getting nostalgic for all the real old stuff! :)
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 03:31 AM
posting the last four videos made me... think... about all those soldiers that have fallen in all the modern wars we have had.... so....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viHa7jzOUjM
Lest We Forget!
Captain Steel
02-12-18, 03:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F57G6wzUuEE
Kiwi1960
02-12-18, 05:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F57G6wzUuEE
OMG, can you get anymore Hollywood than that... the cold war is over, so when Frank Sinatra mentions America and Democracy.... wow, so its the only nation on the planet with democracy????
I'm not getting at you, Super-dude, but the propaganda machine of the cold war era. That film clip is nasty...
And in its own way, its entertaining ... disturbingly entertaining. :(
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