View Full Version : Las Vegas Attack 2017
Captain Steel
10-02-17, 02:30 PM
Guess I'll take a chance on mentioning the attack.
Anyone want to talk about it, or just vent, express your fears, speculate, offer prayers & condolences?
It's heartbreaking. I thought I had become desensitized to all these shootings, but just watched a video taken when the shooting began and nearly cried. Obviously RIP to the dead and my condolences to the injured and to the most likely huge number of people traumatized by this event.
Fear and Loathing indeed... This was terrible beyond imagination... so many fatalities... and this guy was a quarter mile away! How did he hit so many people? I assumed at first the concert was taking place at the base of the hotel and he was just shooting down at heads but now that I see diagrams of the location is fully a quarter mile away across the street into the next block.
Of course the big question will be how did he get his hands on a fully automatic weapon. my guess is you can get a hold of one fairly easily if you really want one or you can adjust a semi auto. Either way, thats a problem and its kinda sick that there are businesses right on The Strip where tourists can go to pay to be able to take target practice with fully automatic weapons just like his. But Ill leave it at that. Nows the time for helping the hurt and mourning the dead as a united country. Im sure petty squabbling and political nonsense will break out soon enough but today I say my sincerest condolences for those who lost family members and loved ones in this tragedy... my heart aches for you all...
I am actually scheduled to go to Vegas this Saturday so this jolted me when I woke up this morning. Especially since we (my work) have people already on site there and there was a mad scramble to make sure everyone was accounted for this morning. Everyone is fine but what an environment to be flying into... My hope is Ill be able to do something to help once I get out there but I cant imagine what at that point...
Captain Steel
10-02-17, 02:46 PM
It seems like every couple years somebody "breaks the record."
I was thinking about that, then some guy on CNN said the same thing - he pointed out that not giving the shooter attention wasn't as big a deal as constantly talking about "records, largest numbers, greatest mass casualty event, etc." - because there are psychos out there who just like the idea of breaking records.
Mr Minio
10-02-17, 02:49 PM
Not that it's anything new, but it's excruciating how much can one person do.
My hope is Ill be able to do something to help once I get out there but I cant imagine what at that point...
They're calling for blood donations if you are able.
I was also shocked to read about the extent of fatalities and injured this morning, and I had no idea he was 1/4 mile way. Far out. How does a guy in a retirement village get a weapon like that.
Citizen Rules
10-02-17, 02:56 PM
I only heard of this attack 30 minutes ago. Horrible! The attack begs the question...what can be done about this? Gun control? Media control? I mean it's just a horrible thing.
Citizen Rules
10-02-17, 02:59 PM
...how did he get his hands on a fully automatic weapon... Do we know for sure it was a fully auto weapon? I don't have TV service so I haven't heard that.
Do we know for sure it was a fully auto weapon? I don't have TV service so I haven't heard that.
I've read it was, and to my ears certainly sounds like one. Incessant shooting for 10 minutes straight. Freaking terrifying.
Citizen Rules
10-02-17, 03:05 PM
I've read it was, and to my ears certainly sounds like one. Incessant shooting for 10 minutes straight. Freaking terrifying. Thanks, I tried to find something on the internet about it, and I read something very similar to that. But I'm wondering if the police have released info on the type of weapon that was used? I mean is it official confirmed to be an auto rifle or is that still up in the air? anyone?
Thanks, I tried to find something on the internet about it, and I read something very similar to that. But I'm wondering if the police have released info on the type of weapon that was used? I mean is it official confirmed to be an auto rifle or is that still up in the air? anyone?
I dont know anything about guns so if I saw what type it would have bypassed me. Just amazed someone of his age could get any gun when he's living in a retirement home. And I dont know yet if he killed himself or the police shot him.
Why, just why. Shaking my head. And at a country music festival where people are just having some laid back fun? Unbelievable.
I dont think theyve officially declared anything yet. Probably wise considering how early it is and that some things are logical but unconfirmed speculation. I do know that the police said he had "more than 10 weapons" in that hotel room with him and everyone I know that knows anything about guns when they heard the recordings said THATS an automatic weapon. and that the reason they caught him was because he had been firing so much that the smoke from his weapon set off the fire alarm in his room which allowed the swat team to hone in on his room in a hotel with 3,000 rooms in it. He was also a high stakes gambler and a country music fan so do with that what you will...
Citizen Rules
10-02-17, 03:20 PM
I've read it was, and to my ears certainly sounds like one. Incessant shooting for 10 minutes straight. Freaking terrifying. You're right. I just talked to my mom who's been watching news all day. It was fully automatic weapons. The news said he had 10 automatic weapons! in his hotel room that he had converted (some or all?) into fully auto, from semi auto. And he ended up shooting himself.
You're right. I just talked to my mom who's been watching news all day. It was fully automatic weapons. The news said he had 10! automatic weapons in his hotel room that he had converted into fully auto, from semi auto. And he ended up shooting himself.
Just sw this on breaking news cnn
• The shooter had bought multiple firearms in the past, several purchased in California, a law enforcement official told CNN. But those don't appear to be among the 10 or more found in the Mandalay Bay hotel room.
• So far investigators believe the firearms were purchased legally. The suspicion, based on initial reports, is that any of the rifles used were altered in order to function as an automatic weapon, said the official. Among the weapons found so far: a .223 caliber and a .308 caliber.
I said in shout the last thing I saw before I went to bed was 3 fatalities. Woke up to this news. Really shocked me.
Citizen Rules
10-02-17, 03:25 PM
.223 caliber, that might be the AR-15 assault rifle.
.308 caliber, that might be an SKS assault rifle based on the Soviet AK47
Those are just guesses. Both are very extremely deadly weapons.
.223 caliber, that might be the AR-15 assault rifle.
.308 caliber, that might be an SKS assault rifle based on the Soviet AK47
Those are just guesses. Both are very extremely deadly weapons.
I dont want to get into the gun debate but just curious how the AWB wasnt renewed over there?
Wish I could donate blood. 515 wounded last I saw.
Captain Steel
10-02-17, 03:34 PM
You're right. I just talked to my mom who's been watching news all day. It was fully automatic weapons. The news said he had 10 automatic weapons! in his hotel room that he had converted (some or all?) into fully auto, from semi auto. And he ended up shooting himself.
For some reason it always p's me off when they kill themselves.
It's like I can almost sympathize with someone who wants to kill themselves - but go off in the woods and do it, jump off a bridge, or pop a couple bottles of pills - in other words, do it in such a way that you're not likely to hurt anyone else. But if you're just going to kill yourself anyway, why kill other people first? What's the point? What is the great expectation of satisfaction supposed to be if you're then going to be dead anyway?
Not to detract from this story - but there was this guy I went to high school with - he was depressed or whatever, broke up with his girlfriend, etc. so he decides to off himself... he drives his car at top speed into a very crowded intersection at rush hour (where the road he was on ends at a "T," intersecting with a cross road where cars are either going straight both ways or turning onto the road he was on)!
He's still alive and in prison for the rest of his life, but he ended up killing a young man at random - a legal immigrant from Africa, driving home from his job, married with kids!
If the suicidal guy just wanted to kill himself, why not drive his car into a wall in a deserted alley? (there's plenty of spots like that to be found). The fact that he chose a crowded intersection crosses the line from despondent to evil because he premeditated injuring or killing others at random in his suicide attempt.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 03:44 PM
I first want to express my condolences to the victims and their families. This is a horrible tragedy. I encourage anyone of faith to pray for those affected by this tragedy. And for those who are not, a trip to donate blood might be in order to deal with the numerous amount of injured individuals.
As for what I have heard so far there is a lot here that is kinda odd for mass shooters. We don't know the motive yet and the guy's background adds more questions then answers.
This guy is not described as being political or a gun guy, but he is firing what sounds like a full auto weapon from the balcony of his casino hotel room. Full auto weapons are hard as hell to get your hand on legally, and you have to know people to get that stuff on the black market or the Dark Web. And truth be told they are almost never used in crime. Now it has happened before. In LA in the 90's Phillips and Mătăsăreanu robbed banks in North Hollywood using weapons converted to full auto. But they were very familiar with firearms and had rap sheets. We have no such info on this shooter.
ISIS claims responsibility, but the FBI has found no ties at this point to terrorism. So unless he had a Quran or called 911 claiming he is ISIS like in The Pulse shooting, ISIS is blowing smoke up our ass. In addition this guy is old ass hell. Generally people like this are young. The guy has no know politics, was not a gun nut, all we know is his daddy was a bank robber, and he likes to gamble.
Questions that need answering. Where did he get the guns, how did he get them into his gun-free zone casino hotel, what was his motive. For all we know the guy snapped due to a health concern or he wanted a way out from crippling gambling debts. Ultimately the feds are going to get those answers.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 03:51 PM
I dont want to get into the gun debate but just curious how the AWB wasnt renewed over there?
Wish I could donate blood. 515 wounded last I saw.
The "Assault Weapon" ban sunset in 2004 under George W Bush.
From the shots I heard on a video, it sounds like full auto fire. The Assault Weapons Ban did not cover full auto weapons. They just called semi auto firearms with standard capacity mags "assault" weapons despite the fact that an assault rifle requires full auto fire.
Machine guns have been highly regulated since the Federal Firearms Act of 1938 and have not been in manufacturer for civilians since the 1980s. Legal full auto weapons have skyrocket in price since those laws passed and are in the price range of several tens of thousands or even hundred thousand dollar plus range. Most people are only able to fire them by renting them from ranges under supervision.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 03:57 PM
Not to go off topic as well, but I hate that the media and certain members of the political elite are trying to shift focus away from a national tragedy to score political points. We don't have a final death count or even a motive for this mass murder and yet I wake up this morning to mass speculation and hand twirling by people trying to fit the shooter into the category that fits with their political opponents.
We all need to stay calm, mourn the dead, and let the authorities find out what happened and how it happened.
Captain Steel
10-02-17, 03:58 PM
ISIS claims responsibility, but the FBI has found no ties at this point to terrorism. So unless he had a Quran or called 911 claiming he is ISIS like in The Pulse shooting, ISIS is blowing smoke up our ass. In addition this guy is old ass hell. Generally people like this are young. The guy has no know politics, was not a gun nut, all we know is his daddy was a bank robber, and he likes to gamble.
Questions that need answering. Where did he get the guns, how did he get them into his gun-free zone casino hotel, what was his motive. For all we know the guy snapped due to a health concern or he wanted a way out from crippling gambling debts. Ultimately the feds are going to get those answers.
ISIS has been known to be an "equal opportunity exploiter" i.e., they've claimed responsibility for a number of mass murders that were never linked back them or even their influence.
This brings up another thing I've been wondering whenever we hear these claims that ISIS or some other terror group has claimed responsibility - how does the media get these reports that "ISIS has claimed responsibility" - I mean: who does ISIS call? Do they call news networks, the FBI? How does anyone who takes the call know it's actually ISIS and not some punk making a prank call? Can they trace the call? What's the difference between an "actual" claim of responsibility or anyone randomly going on YouTube or some other site and typing "ISIS has claimed responsibility"?
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 04:01 PM
ISIS has been known to be an "equal opportunity exploiter" i.e., they've claimed responsibility for a number of mass murders that were never linked back them or even their influence.
This brings up another thing I've been wondering whenever we hear these claims that ISIS or some other terror group has claimed responsibility - how does the media get these reports that "ISIS has claimed responsibility" - I mean: who does ISIS call? Do they call news networks, the FBI? How does anyone who takes the call know it's actually ISIS and not some punk making a prank call? Can they trace the call? What's the difference between an "actual" claim of responsibility or anyone randomly going on YouTube or some other site and typing "ISIS has claimed responsibility"?
Well first and foremost the media lies through it's teeth on just about every topic. The idea of truth in journalism is dead. Only the headlines, click bait, views, and people tuning into TV matter. But not the truth.
As for ISIS I know they try to groom attackers through social media and the internet, but to what degree I am not certain. I am no terrorism expert.
Well first and foremost the media lies through it's teeth on just about every topic. The idea of truth in journalism is dead. Only the headlines, click bait, views, and people tuning into TV matter. But not the truth.
As for ISIS I know they try to groom attackers through social media and the internet, but to what degree I am not certain. I am no terrorism expert.
Normally I think it's sensational reporting or lazy journos taking it off social media before investigating because they want to be the first to cover it, but in this case I think the fbi chief disputed it before the media even mentioned it. I saw on a report last night the claim was BS but this morning it;s ll over the net that it's isis. Usual hysterics.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 04:06 PM
I only heard of this attack 30 minutes ago. Horrible! The attack begs the question...what can be done about this? Gun control? Media control? I mean it's just a horrible thing.
Gun control was rampant here. He was shooting full auto (very illegal without a crap ton of legal paperwork and background checks) in a gun free zone over looking a concert. That won't do anything other then give certain politicians something to gripe about.
Media control I don't think will help aside from not running the guy's face 24 hours a day, but good luck getting CNN, MSNBC and Fox News to stop that. Their media empires are crumbling with the rise of the internet. They have to run these stories to get any sort of traffic.
Truth be told man is a curious creature. We as humans are capable of the most altruistic behavior as well as the most base and horrifying acts of cruelty. Today we are witness to man's dark side.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 04:07 PM
Normally I think it's sensational reporting or lazy journos taking it off social media before investigating because they want to be the first to cover it, but in this case I think the fbi chief disputed it before the media even mentioned it. I saw on a report last night the claim was BS but this morning it;s ll over the net. Usual hysterics.
Indeed. Just another reason why I hate the media.
Indeed. Just another reason why I hate the media.
Oh yes, and the modern inability of the masses to read.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 04:09 PM
If the suicidal guy just wanted to kill himself, why not drive his car into a wall in a deserted alley? (there's plenty of spots like that to be found). The fact that he chose a crowded intersection crosses the line from despondent to evil because he premeditated injuring or killing others at random in his suicide attempt.
One final angry lash out at a world they believe has wronged them maybe?
Stirchley
10-02-17, 04:09 PM
this guy was a quarter mile away! How did he hit so many people?
A sniper rifle can fire at something 4.5 miles away. A quarter of a mile is nothing.
matt72582
10-02-17, 04:17 PM
I just hope no one says "There's gun control in Chicago" -- yeah, but 5 miles away, there isnt!
One final angry lash out at a world they believe has wronged them maybe?
I agree. We've had someone like that in our lives for 2 years blaming the directors of our company for his life going to sht through his own actions. Would not surprise me in the least if he gets his hands on illegal guns and goes postal. All of the partners in the company have had to live with constant threatening nd mentally disturbed behaviour and we all have cctv for the first time in our lives. Not fun watching someone fall apart, but the self absorption of taking it out on innocents out enjoying music and friendships. I cant imagine the trauma those who survived will go through forever after this.
A sniper rifle can fire at something 4.5 miles away. A quarter of a mile is nothing.
But a full auto weapon would suck as a sniper rifle. sniper rifles are designed for carefully scoping out a single target in the hands of a trained marksman. This guy was spraying a crowd in the dark from a quarter mile away. I seriously doubt he was aiming at all.
Part of the casualty level can be chalked up to having a sea of 22,000 people caught in a fenced in pen for a while before they trampled the fences to get out (I mean if you think about it 58 out of 22,000 fish in a barrel isnt a great percentage thank goodness). Maybe more might be due to people actually running into fire since they couldnt really tell where it was coming from. And who knows how many people might have been trampled to death in the chaos...
And who knows how many people might have been trampled to death in the chaos...
And that thought had me freaking out earlier. Horrific to contemplate.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 04:28 PM
I agree. We've had someone like that in our lives for 2 years blaming the directors of our company for his life going to sht through his own actions. Would not surprise me in the least if he gets his hands on illegal guns and goes postal. All of the partners in the company have had to live with constant threatening nd mentally disturbed behaviour and we all have cctv for the first time in our lives. Not fun watching someone fall apart, but the self absorption of taking it out on innocents out enjoying music and friendships. I cant imagine the trauma those who survived will go through forever after this.
We will find out.
As for the full auto guns, the ATF is in the works. I will pretty much rule of these things being legal. Either he stole them somehow or he got himself a source for the weapons.
Until then we are in a waiting game until they get more info.
Gangland
10-02-17, 04:29 PM
It overtly has nothing to do with the shooting, but the shooter's father, Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, was a bank robber during the 60s/70s.
https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2017/10/02/02-benjamin-hoskins-paddock.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.jpg
We will find out.
As for the full auto guns, the ATF is in the works. I will pretty much rule of these things being legal. Either he stole them somehow or he got himself a source for the weapons.
Until then we are in a waiting game until they get more info.
I read that he had them legally. Will see if I can find it. And how did he get 10 guns into a casino - dont they have security on entry? Maybe highrise near public parks should. OK might be a kneejerk reaction but how expensive is it to install metal detectors.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 04:34 PM
Yeah I saw that. Unless they can proof genetic traits of history of sociopathic behavior, it is at least an interesting tidbit. Not unless his kept in contact with relatives of his daddy who may have stayed the crime game somehow.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 04:37 PM
I read that he had them legally. Will see if I can find it. And how did he get 10 guns into a casino - dont they have security on entry? Maybe highrise near public parks should. OK might be a kneejerk reaction but how expensive is it to install metal detectors.
I need a source for the machine guns being legal. The media is so piss poor at saying what type of gun was used. I would wait for the ATF report after the investigation. Now the non full auto weapons I can see him legally owning.
As for the metal detectors, those won't be expensive to install. But I bet the cost of people not going to a casino because of said metal detectors seeing it as a minor hassle due to having to go through what would be airport security every time you go out to eat or a show would be a huge loss.
Stirchley
10-02-17, 04:40 PM
But a full auto weapon would suck as a sniper rifle. sniper rifles are designed for carefully scoping out a single target in the hands of a trained marksman.
You’re right. I was just making the point of how terrifying it is that these rifles can fire such distances. 4.5 miles in Manhattan would be 85 blocks north to south, which is an amazing distance to shoot a rifle.
Stirchley
10-02-17, 04:46 PM
I agree. We've had someone like that in our lives for 2 years blaming the directors of our company for his life going to sht through his own actions. Would not surprise me in the least if he gets his hands on illegal guns and goes postal.
I volunteer at a food pantry, which is held in the basement of our cathedral. Last week we had a Serbian refugee come down who got very very pissy because we couldn’t find his paperwork. I am going to ask our boss lady if we have a protocol in place for someone who comes down with a gun. Do we immediately call 911 or do we call the security guard who works upstairs getting our “customers” into line?
I need a source for the machine guns being legal. The media is so piss poor at saying what type of gun was used. I would wait for the ATF report after the investigation. Now the non full auto weapons I can see him legally owning.
Yeah comes back to what I said earlier about lazy journos. Every time there is so much misinformation.
As for comment re:metal detectors, airport security etc in your post, I'd rather go through the minor inconvenience. I remember all the hoohaa when xrays and face recognition came in along with random bomb detection tests. Doesnt bother me at all if it stops all this insanity. We actually had that here recently with an airport scare. The biggest problem was not the inconvenience but the massive queues waiting to get in through security. Any lunatic with a gun, knife, bomb or van could have been waiting for sitting ducks.
(sorry Yods, not directed at your avatar)
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 04:49 PM
Yeah comes back to what I said earlier about lazy journos. Every time there is so much misinformation.
As for comment re:metal detectors, airport security etc in your post, I'd rather go through the minor inconvenience. I remember all the hoohaa when xrays and face recognition came in along with random bomb detection tests. Doesnt bother me at all if it stops all this insanity. We actually had that here recently with an airport scare. The biggest problem was not the inconvenience but the massive queues waiting to get in through security. Any lunatic with a gun, knife, bomb or van could have been waiting for sitting ducks.
(sorry Yods, not directed at your avatar)
And I totally understand why you would have no issues. But the masses who just want to go to a casino to play craps? I doubt they will be less understanding. And a Casino will never do anything to limit the suckers who go to a casino to gamble.
And I totally understand why you would have no issues. But the masses who just want to go to a casino to play craps? I doubt they will be less understanding. And a Casino will never do anything to limit the suckers who go to a casino to gamble.
You are a very sensible man. I agree about the greed of casinos.
I cant find the article claiming the guns were legal but this is pretty sad. A sudden psychotic break? I feel sorry for his brother having to carry this news. How do you reconcile that. Atleast if he had a history of mental illness you can point the finger at poor medical systems but Eric Paddock has got no hope of resolving this in his head.
Paddock's brother, Eric, who lives in East Orlando, Fla., said that to his knowledge, his brother had no history of mental illness or substance abuse. He said his brother had "nothing to do" with political or religious organizations. His brother owned guns and played high-stakes video poker, he said.
"There's absolutely no way I can even conceive that my brother would shoot a bunch of people he didn't even know," Eric Paddock said. "There's no rationale. There's nothing anywhere that said why he did this."
Captain Steel
10-02-17, 04:55 PM
I'm listening to the radio - and I realize it's all speculation at this point - but some callers are saying that since there seems to be no motives, red flags, familial info, criminal record, political-extremist or terrorist ties, or background on this guy linking him to anything but being a completely ordinary, average guy, people are starting to theorize things like a Manchurian Candidate scenario. (But for whom? ISIS, Russia, North Korea, Trump, the Clintons, the Alt-Right, BLM, Antifa???)
I need a source for the machine guns being legal.
machine guns (fully automatic guns) are illegal UNLESS they were bought before 1986. The NRA worked hard to get that loop hole so that gun sellers can sell older machine guns without legal worry. Now from what Ive heard of THIS case (not officially confirmed yet) is that he bought all his guns legally and converted some of them to full auto himself. And thats illegal.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 05:00 PM
I'm listening to the radio - and I realize it's all speculation at this point - but some callers are saying that since there seems to be no motives, red flags, familial info, criminal record, political-extremist or terrorist ties, or background on this guy linking him to anything being completely ordinary, average guy, people are starting to theorize things like a Manchurian Candidate scenario. (But for whom? ISIS, Russia, North Korea, Trump, the Clintons, the Alt-Right, BLM, Antifa???)
Hence why I am in the shut the hell up, mourn, and and wait camp.
I'm listening to the radio - and I realize it's all speculation at this point - but some callers are saying that since there seems to be no motives, red flags, familial info, criminal record, political-extremist or terrorist ties, or background on this guy linking him to anything but being a completely ordinary, average guy, people are starting to theorize things like a Manchurian Candidate scenario. (But for whom? ISIS, Russia, North Korea, Trump, the Clintons, the Alt-Right, BLM, Antifa???)
no motives we know of YET. I would wait until they dig more deeply into his gambling situation before we can write that one off. Occam's razor would make it seem unlikely that this is due to hate group kidnapping, brain washing and planting and in fact someone who lost millions and snapped or something along those lines. It happened in Macao. And in the Philippines i believe.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 05:05 PM
machine guns (fully automatic guns) are illegal UNLESS they were bought before 1986. The NRA worked hard to get that loop hole so that gun sellers can sell older machine guns without legal worry. Now from what Ive heard of THIS case (not officially confirmed yet) is that he bought all his guns legally and converted some of them to full auto himself. And thats illegal.
I mentioned that in an earlier post. Including the conversion possibility. I even mentioned the North Hollywood bank robbers who did.
That being said, I say we wait and see for the actual investigation to be over. Otherwise we delve into the internet speculation echo chamber where the looney left tries to blame the NRA and gun owners and the wacky right try to say this guy was ISIS or ANTIFA.
The Gunslinger45
10-02-17, 05:07 PM
no motives we know of YET. I would wait until they dig more deeply into his gambling situation before we can write that one off. Occam's razor would make it seem unlikely that this is due to hate group kidnapping, brain washing and planting and in fact someone who lost millions and snapped or something along those lines. It happened in Macao. And in the Philippines i believe.
Sure spoil the fun of the internet tin foil hat society. ;)
I mentioned that in an earlier post. Including the conversion possibility. I even mentioned the North Hollywood bank robbers who did.
That being said, I say we wait and see for the actual investigation to be over. Otherwise we delve into the internet speculation echo chamber where the looney left tries to blame the NRA and gun owners and the wacky right try to say this guy was ISIS or ANTIFA.
Agreed.
Captain Steel
10-02-17, 05:08 PM
Sure spoil the fun of the internet tin foil hat society. ;)
On another site someone speculated a brain tumor. Plausible.
Sure spoil the fun of the internet tin foil hat society. ;)
Eh, amazing isnt it. I've got someone ranting at me the government did it. Woooo *cue ominous music and pass that hat over*
.
This just came up on my feed - how you cn help. Addresses for blood collection if youcan/ want to go down that path.
https://hellogiggles.com/news/help-victims-las-vegas-shooting-case-youre-feeling-powerless/
This just came up on my feed - how you cn help. Addresses for blood collection if youcan/ want to go down that path.
https://hellogiggles.com/news/help-victims-las-vegas-shooting-case-youre-feeling-powerless/
Yep already printed up that same Twitter post and some other bits of information I got from local sites. My plan is to head straight to a donation point as soon as I pick up my car from the airport. Trouble is most of the places seem to be closed on weekends so Im still searching for a place that I know is open and when I plug in the names of places (like the police recommended Labor Health & Welfare Clinic) you get a WAVE of endless articles about the shooting and I cant find the stupid number...
Maybe theyll have Red Cross campers on the ground by then hopefully.
But people are really giving because I saw an article about how one place had a full parking lot and a line around the block at 4am! Gotta love people who care that much to wait overnight to give blood. And you gotta love that theres too many to count! People just want to help. Tragedies ALWAYS sprout a wave of heroics, generosity and altruism. I think its the nature of our species. We kill each other but we also go out of our way to help each other. Wish we'd figure it out...
But people are really giving because I saw an article about how one place had a full parking lot and a line around the block at 4am! Gotta love people who care that much to wait overnight to give blood. And you gotta love that theres too many to count! People just want to help. Tragedies ALWAYS sprout a wave of heroics, generosity and altruism. I think its the nature of our species. We kill each other but we also go out of our way to help each other. Wish we'd figure it out...
And at times like this I wish the media would pull their head out of their colons and report about it. We need to keep these selfless members of the community in mind whenever something like this happens. Good for you for wanting to do your bit, I Rex. Even if you cant find one collecting on a weekend your intention is there, but at a guess I would think there'll be drives 24/7.
Interesting that he was holed up in the hotel (with those guns?) since last month. Will be interesting to see if he went with the intention of hitting the music festival or if he flipped out from gambling debts and something like the noise tipped him over the edge.
"He had a couple of guns but they were all handguns, legal," Eric Paddock said. "He might have had one long gun, but he had them in a safe."
matt72582
10-02-17, 06:13 PM
Give blood... Especially if you are like me (O-negative)
Good job, people, using a tragedy to rail against the media, which has done nothing wrong in this instance. It's not the media's fault if people can't comprehend what was actually reported. Such as that it's been established this guy had bought multiple guns legally, but it has not been confirmed if any of those legal purchases were the guns used in this shooting. And no one claimed he just bought a full-auto rifle. It likely was converted after the purchase anyway.
I actually live in Las Vegas and in fact work about two blocks away, but I happened to be off last night. I could have been working, it just wasn't how my schedule worked out. I imagine where I worked, along with everywhere else on the Strip, went into some sort of lock down mode. I guess I'll find out tonight when I go to work. I will try to donate blood on Wednesday.
I'm sure most have already seen this; October 1st when the shooting happened was the 274th day of the year and the Vegas Shooting was the 273rd mass shooting (four or more shot) this year in America :eek: Horrifying. http://www.abc15.com/news/data/mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-over-270-mass-shootings-have-occurred-in-2017
Yeah this is horrendous. Like Swan i saw a video where you could only hear the gunfire and it was stomach turning. Also not sure if this was confirmed because i heard it early but i read that there was so much smoke from the gunfire that the shooter set off an alarm giving away his position.
:(
matt72582
10-03-17, 09:39 AM
I was glad to hear Trump say we'd talk about guns soon... He supported restrictions his entire life -- no reason why automatics are available for sale at a gun show, etc...
Gangland
10-03-17, 12:57 PM
Has anyone heard anything about this guy being on any type of medication?
I don't think this is strictly a gun problem. I think alot of people fail to realize that the United States has the highest rate per capita use of anti-depressant drugs (http://uk.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2?r=US&IR=T) and boasts the highest consumption of opiates.
After every mass shooting, both sides yell about gun control, etc., but nothing is said about the alarming problem we seem to be having with doctors overdosing prescription medication.
But, since I haven't with anything on the subject, I'm just speculating at this point, but I would be very surprised if this guy wasn't on some kind of medication. The link between mass shootings and anti-depressants seem to be getting more and more common.
Citizen Rules
10-03-17, 02:25 PM
.. no reason why automatics are available for sale at a gun show, etc...Automatic guns are not available for sale at gun shows. Semi automatic are available, but not fully auto.
Has anyone heard anything about this guy being on any type of medication?
I don't think this is strictly a gun problem. I think alot of people fail to realize that the United States has the highest rate per capita use of anti-depressant drugs (http://uk.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2?r=US&IR=T) and boasts the highest consumption of opiates.
After every mass shooting, both sides yell about gun control, etc., but nothing is said about the alarming problem we seem to be having with doctors overdosing prescription medication.
But, since I haven't with anything on the subject, I'm just speculating at this point, but I would be very surprised if this guy wasn't on some kind of medication. The link between mass shootings and anti-depressants seem to be getting more and more common.I've said the same thing before on this board about school shootings. A number of the shooters were on psychiatric prescribed drugs. I don't know about this last shooter, and if he was on any prescribed psychiatric drugs?
I dont know if meds were involved either but the question always has to be asked IMO, especially with a medical system as woeful as you guys have in US. I did see some comments that he was highly agitated whatever that's worth.
Mateen's wife said he was bipolar for example but I dont recall if he was on scripted meds, just abusing steroids.
Captain Steel
10-03-17, 02:47 PM
Automatic guns are not available for sale at gun shows. Semi automatic are available, but not fully auto.
I've said the same thing before on this board about school shootings. A number of the shooters were on psychiatric prescribed drugs. I don't know about this last shooter, and if he was on any prescribed psychiatric drugs?
I know drugs affect different people differently, but I've always been a little skeptical about drug excuses. I've done a lot of drugs, yet I've never hurt anyone. I've got a temper, yet it does not control my behavior and has never been heightened beyond my control by drugs. It's simply not in me to physically harm anyone - I've never taken any amounts of drugs or gotten drunk enough where it drove me to hurt or want to hurt anyone or lose my ability NOT to hurt anyone.
There's just no chemical influence that can make me step over certain moral codes (like going from the only conditions that would make me willing to kill would be self-defence or defence of others to becoming a mass murderer, or intentionally killing any innocent person).
I kind of believe that kind of evil has to already be in someone - I don't think drugs ALONE can turn someone into a mass murderer (of course a tumultuous upbringing, affiliating with bad associations, poor role models, various traumatizing experiences, poor or abusive relationships, mental or emotional problems, series of unlucky circumstances COMBINED with drugs or addiction, could certainly cement evil into one's being & influence them toward violence).
Citizen Rules
10-03-17, 02:57 PM
...I don't think drugs ALONE can turn someone into a mass murderer ... Either do I...It's a numbers game.
Over prescribe psychiatric drugs to millions of people, many who are all ready very unstable, ....and the odds can go up, that one of them will snap. Of course the fact that they already had problems in the first place also plays a big part.
Either do I...It's a numbers game.
Over prescribe psychiatric drugs to millions of people, many who are all ready very unstable, ....and the odds can go up, that one of them will snap. Of course the fact that they already had problems in the first place also plays a big part.
Even weed can cause psychotic episodes so no surprises pharmaceuticals can.
Gangland
10-03-17, 03:10 PM
I know drugs affect different people differently, but I've always been a little skeptical about drug excuses. I've done a lot of drugs, yet I've never hurt anyone. I've got a temper, yet it does not control my behavior and has never been heightened beyond my control by drugs. It's simply not in me to physically harm anyone - I've never taken any amounts of drugs or gotten drunk enough where it drove me to hurt or want to hurt anyone or lose my ability NOT to hurt anyone.
There's just no chemical influence that can make me step over certain moral codes (like going from the only conditions that would make me willing to kill would be self-defence or defence of others to becoming a mass murderer, or intentionally killing any innocent person).
I kind of believe that kind of evil has to already be in someone - I don't think drugs ALONE can turn someone into a mass murderer (of course a tumultuous upbringing, affiliating with bad associations, poor role models, various traumatizing experiences, poor or abusive relationships, mental or emotional problems, series of unlucky circumstances COMBINED with drugs or addiction, could certainly cement evil into one's being & influence them toward violence).
I think that gun data is terrible skewed (rather purposely or by ignorance), people often compare gun deaths in the United States to gun deaths in Switzerland, the U.K., France, etc when the state of Texas alone is larger than all of those countries. And within gun statistics, I've never seen a study breaking down those numbers (How many were suicides? How many were accidents? How many people were killed by illegal guns?). That's why I think it's less of a gun problem, thought I totally agree that some people shouldn't own guns, and something else affecting our society. In the 1920s/1930s (up until 1934), you could purchase a Thompson sub machine guns at sporting good stores, or even by mail, and Chicago presently, with some of the strictest gun control laws in the country, have more deaths than Prohibition Era Chicago (thought this is a different argument, I think the legalization of narcotics would see a sudden fall of violence in Chicago). But my point is, not that long ago, people had easier access than we do today to very powerful firearms, yet these mass shootings, outside of the gang wars of Chicago and New York, were unheard of.
The Chicago have strict gun control laws doesn't really matter when there's really lax gun control laws five miles outside of Chicago. It's incredibly easy for criminals there to get guns, and i believe the majority of the Chicago gun deaths are by gangs.
I'm not making any Gun Control argument, i don't have an opinion on that since i never grew up around guns. Just don't think the "but Chicago has strict gun control laws" argument really works.
Gangland
10-03-17, 03:19 PM
The Chicago have strict gun control laws doesn't really matter when there's really lax gun control laws five miles outside of Chicago. It's incredibly easy for criminals there to get guns, and i believe the majority of the Chicago gun deaths are by gangs.
I'm not making any Gun Control argument, i don't have an opinion on that since i never grew up around guns. Just don't think the "but Chicago has strict gun control laws" argument really works.
I see your argument, I just don't understand the solution of strict gun control, because somewhere, someone will find a source for anything. And to be fair, I don't think most gun control advocates are for any kind of total disarmament, just common sense gun registration/regulation, which I don't think is that offensive to the Second Amendment.
I dont think any amount of drugs can cause a person to slowly amass an arsenal of weapons, meticulously plan out a murder spree and then successfully pull it off. All while living a normal life and showing not even a HINT of dysfunction to associates and neighbors and even immediate family members. Thats not "unstable" to me. Thats careful long term cold calculation. But what do I know. Clearly there was something "wrong" with him. But Im not sure what yet... Can you hide being a sociopath for your entire life?
In regards to the gun issue, I find it a little sickening that the day this event occurred republicans were considering a bill making silencers legal at the behest of the NRA. thankfully this event was enough for them to quickly stuff it into a drawer for now. But the clarion call of the NRA is a strong one so Im sure it wont be long before they revisit the need for gun owners to be allowed to silence their kill shots.
Citizen Rules
10-03-17, 03:29 PM
I agree with Gangland on gun control being a non sequitur....America in the past 1930s-40-50s, etc...had a large number of guns per capita, and yet there wasn't the 'popularity' of mass shootings back then. These mass shootings are mostly a phenomenon from the last few decades.
Guns haven't changed lately nor has the accessibility of them gotten easier. Semi automatic guns were available back in the early 20th century, so that's not a new twist either.
So instead of looking at guns as causing mass shootings, lets look at the people who 'pull the trigger' as being the cause. So what is causing these people to go out in a 'blaze of glory'? Answer that, and you'll have yourself a large part of the puzzle solved.
I dont think any amount of drugs can cause a person to slowly amass an arsenal of weapons, meticulously plan out a murder spree and then successfully pull it off. All while living a normal life and showing not even a HINT of dysfunction to associates and neighbors and even immediate family members. Thats not "unstable" to me. Thats careful long term cold calculation. But what do I know. Clearly there was something "wrong" with him. But Im not sure what yet... Can you hide being a sociopath for your entire life?
.
Hell yes. Jeffrey Dahmer?
How about Martin Bryant who was the catalyst for our gun restrictions.
3 out of every 100 men you come into contact with will have an anti social personality disorder but not necessarily diagnosed as such. The numbers are probably even higher.
matt72582
10-03-17, 03:55 PM
Automatic guns are not available for sale at gun shows. Semi automatic are available, but not fully auto.
I've said the same thing before on this board about school shootings. A number of the shooters were on psychiatric prescribed drugs. I don't know about this last shooter, and if he was on any prescribed psychiatric drugs?
But they can sell converters, don't they?
matt72582
10-03-17, 03:58 PM
I agree with Gangland on gun control being a non sequitur....America in the past 1930s-40-50s, etc...had a large number of guns per capita, and yet there wasn't the 'popularity' of mass shootings back then. These mass shootings are mostly a phenomenon from the last few decades.
Guns haven't changed lately nor has the accessibility of them gotten easier. Semi automatic guns were available back in the early 20th century, so that's not a new twist either.
So instead of looking at guns as causing mass shootings, lets look at the people who 'pull the trigger' as being the cause. So what is causing these people to go out in a 'blaze of glory'? Answer that, and you'll have yourself a large part of the puzzle solved.
I think society is more indifferent... Before people wanted to be on TV; now they wanna be on TV, internet, social media, etc etc.... I also think people need to love something, someone, perhaps have a role model, but it seems we're going backwards in this rat race.
The Chicago have strict gun control laws doesn't really matter when there's really lax gun control laws five miles outside of Chicago. It's incredibly easy for criminals there to get guns, and i believe the majority of the Chicago gun deaths are by gangs.
True, but this same logic would seem to undermine gun control arguments in general, since the laws we pass aren't going to apply to Mexico.
Granted, it's easier to drive across state lines than across national borders, but obviously lots of firearms already make it across, and that'd only get worse if we made the prospect more lucrative by heavily restricting access to them here.
Citizen Rules
10-03-17, 04:10 PM
I think society is more indifferent... Before people wanted to be on TV; now they wanna be on TV, internet, social media, etc etc.... I also think people need to love something, someone, perhaps have a role model, but it seems we're going backwards in this rat race.You know I think there's some truth there.
But they can sell converters, don't they? Good question, I wondered about that too?
Are these converters being sold legally for turning semi auto into fully auto? Or are they being sold for something else and then being illegally modified? @gunslinge45 might know.
True, but this same logic would seem to undermine gun control arguments in general, since the laws we pass aren't going to apply to Mexico.
Granted, it's easier to drive across state lines than across national borders, but obviously lots of firearms already make it across, and that'd only get worse if we made the prospect more lucrative by heavily restricting access to them here.
Yeah as i said i wasn't making a gun control argument, just saying that i don't think that specific one works.
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/las-vegas-shooting-how-stephen-paddock-got-guns-into-mandalay-bay/news-story/4a8d8022d19fe75522ee0479fa455644
I've never even held a gun let alone fired one. I really think the glorification of the gun and gun culture is part of the rise of gun deaths. Kids exposed non-stop to violence on TV, in movies and in video games has got to have an effect (or is it affect?). Plus a lot of kids don't have a strong role model around to keep them from getting involved in gangs, etc. I would really like to see as much outrage at the high murder rates in cities like Chicago like there has been at situations like this most recent one in LV.
They do background checks (or they are supposed to) when you buy a gun, right? Do they only look for criminal records or do they look at mental health history and medications as well?
I've never even held a gun let alone fired one. I really think the glorification of the gun and gun culture is part of the rise of gun deaths. Kids exposed non-stop to violence on TV, in movies and in video games has got to have an effect (or is it affect?). Plus a lot of kids don't have a strong role model around to keep them from getting involved in gangs, etc. I would really like to see as much outrage at the high murder rates in cities like Chicago like there has been at situations like this most recent one in LV.
They do background checks (or they are supposed to) when you buy a gun, right? Do they only look for criminal records or do they look at mental health history and medications as well?
We had guns when I was a kid but strictly for use on my dad's properties, not suburbia, mostly for hunting rabbits and foxes. Havent touched one since I shot a bunny when I was about 8 nd never forgave myself, but I was taught gun safety. How many people with guns these days are taught to respect them, I mean for goodness sake, idiot parents leaving guns lying around in houses, cars and most recently a day care centre? Unbelievable.
I cant buy the violence on tv, music etc argument. I'm not saying it isnt possible, just that I watch a lot of violence and am a pacifist. My husband listened to death metal growing up and plays violent computer games - couldnt hurt a fly. I think if someone has a predisposition to kill people or animals no amount of fictional violence will compel them, but I'm not a shrink so just my personal opinion. This kid for exmple - I cant buy that Dexter inspired him to do that
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/02/teenager-steven-miles-murdered-girlfriend
Re: your question concerning background checks - in aus they do; no idea about USA. Even before the restrictions came in there was a schedule of antecedents that prohibited ever receiving a permit which included drugs (mental health history as well if I recall correctly) and certain criminal offences.
Not easy getting a firearm here these days if you want to do it legally, however, if I stupidly decided I needed a gun I could get one by 5pm today.
The Gunslinger45
10-03-17, 05:09 PM
Has anyone heard anything about this guy being on any type of medication?
I don't think this is strictly a gun problem. I think alot of people fail to realize that the United States has the highest rate per capita use of anti-depressant drugs (http://uk.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2?r=US&IR=T) and boasts the highest consumption of opiates.
After every mass shooting, both sides yell about gun control, etc., but nothing is said about the alarming problem we seem to be having with doctors overdosing prescription medication.
But, since I haven't with anything on the subject, I'm just speculating at this point, but I would be very surprised if this guy wasn't on some kind of medication. The link between mass shootings and anti-depressants seem to be getting more and more common.
I am very hesitant to blame psych meds. As someone who deals with the mentally ill more then I should, it is being off meds that is usually what makes people call me to deal with them. And even if the person is so out there off his meds in the thralls of a full blown psychotic breakdown where they have lots all control, they are incapable of a complex plan like this. Grabbing a knife or some simple weapon sure, but not a deliberate plan such as this.
I think when we have a big picture it is going to be something beyond a simple talking point on guns, drugs, or mental illness.
I think a tougher/more interesting question is whether the rise in mass shootings and the rise in prescription drugs share a common source.
it is being off meds that is usually what makes people call me to deal with them..
Or change their dose without medical supervision. How about full blown alcos who go cold turkey? That can be pretty bad as well.
Just talking in general. Paddock's brother certainly hasnt implied anything like this. Just came across as a pretty non descript kind of guy which is why it's so baffling.
The Gunslinger45
10-03-17, 05:14 PM
I've never even held a gun let alone fired one. I really think the glorification of the gun and gun culture is part of the rise of gun deaths. Kids exposed non-stop to violence on TV, in movies and in video games has got to have an effect (or is it affect?). Plus a lot of kids don't have a strong role model around to keep them from getting involved in gangs, etc. I would really like to see as much outrage at the high murder rates in cities like Chicago like there has been at situations like this most recent one in LV.
They do background checks (or they are supposed to) when you buy a gun, right? Do they only look for criminal records or do they look at mental health history and medications as well?
Chicago has a death toll problem due to high gang violence, an entrenched gang culture, and the inner cities have been left to degrade by a political class more interested in re-elections then solving problems.
Blaming TV, video games, rap music, metal, or the like for violence is ignoring the bigger issue.
The Gunslinger45
10-03-17, 05:16 PM
I think a tougher/more interesting question is whether the rise in mass shootings and the rise in prescription drugs share a common source.
Sort of a A does not cause B, but both are drawn form C sort of deal? I hope I made sense.
Citizen Rules
10-03-17, 05:52 PM
....I think when we have a big picture it is going to be something beyond a simple talking point on guns, drugs, or mental illness.
...Blaming TV, video games, rap music, metal, or the like for violence is ignoring the bigger issue. OK then what factors do you blame the rise of mass shooting in the USA on?
The Gunslinger45
10-03-17, 05:55 PM
OK then what factors do you blame the rise of mass shooting in the USA on?
If I knew those answers I would be in a different line of work. I can opine on street crime no issues at all. But the why to mass shootings not related to gang and drug turf shootings, I can only speculate.
I know a bunch of mass shooters have links to a lot of different factors from untreated mental health, war time trauma, child abuse, to just wanting to copy cat the Columbine kids who they were obsessed with. But each shooter is his own little case with his own flaws, issues, traumas and histories, and motivations. I hesitate to try and find a blanket explanation to their rise. But trying to find some commonality is by no means a bad place to start.
Citizen Rules
10-03-17, 05:56 PM
If I knew those answers I would be in a different line of work. I can opine on street crime no issues at all. But the why to mass shootings not related to gang and drug turf shootings, I can only speculate. So speculate:p...that's what we are all doing.
OK then what factors do you blame the rise of mass shooting in the USA on?
Can I pipe in on that one as an outsider? Feelings of self seclusion and disenfranchisement is my guess (not just usa but anywhere in the world). Seems to be a lot of unhappiness for people and their place in the greater community these days.
Citizen Rules
10-03-17, 06:04 PM
Can I pipe in on that one as an outsider? Feelings of self seclusion and disenfranchisement is my guess (not just usa but anywhere in the world). Seems to be a lot of unhappiness for people and their place in the greater community these days. Yes, I can see that as a factor. The more that people interconnect: with mobile phones, instant media and the internet, the more that people tend to isolate themselves from the real world and the real people around us.
Yes, I can see that as a factor. The more that people interconnect: with mobile phones, instant media and the internet, the more that people tend to isolate themselves from the real world and the real people around us.
Yeah I was just thinking the exact thing, then on top of that there is the constant bombardment of bad news on the net. There was a time back in the old days we grew up in where you could just avoid newspapers and tv coverage. Now it's impossible unless you live in a cave. Some days the world does seem like a dismal place. Maybe Paddock just felt like he couldnt reach out to anyone so just snapped. Pretty sad, despite how heinous what he did was.
Captain Steel
10-03-17, 06:10 PM
I blame some of it on what we're doing right now - the Internet, social media, electronic communication.
Experts say it is de-socializing us, isolating us, addicting us, making us mentally and physically unhealthy, making us unable to relate to each other in a human sense, or, in some extreme cases making us unable to differentiate between reality and virtual reality.
Of course, like all factors that can influence, it's going to influence people to different extents depending on how vulnerable they are, how vulnerable they allow themselves to be, and how much of themselves, their time and their psyche they invest in it.
Captain Steel
10-03-17, 06:12 PM
Yes, I can see that as a factor. The more that people interconnect: with mobile phones, instant media and the internet, the more that people tend to isolate themselves from the real world and the real people around us.
We seemed to have one of those ESP synchronicity moments again!
(I blame the Internet!)
Do you guys have something like RUOK campaign? It;s a national day here in sept to touch base with someone (mostly men) who might be suicidally depressed. Really gets the community involved simply by asking the question of someone where things dont seem quite right.
False Writer
10-03-17, 06:25 PM
RIP to the victims. A horrible thing to have happen. It is very perplexing how the shooter is in his mid-60s, wealthy, and had no past criminal record. He must've had a really dark secret that he kept completely hidden. At the very least this evil man is gone from this world and won't hurt anyone else.
These pictures were released from inside the killer's hotel room. You can see he used a bump stock to achieve the rapid rate of fire. If you do a little search you can find the leaked photo of the killer after he shot himself.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3538861.1507052977!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/vegas-guns.jpg
Captain Steel
10-03-17, 10:21 PM
These pictures were released from inside the killer's hotel room. You can see he used a bump stock to achieve the rapid rate of fire. If you do a little search you can find the leaked photo of the killer after he shot himself.
Last update I saw (this afternoon) the Sheriff said he was majorly pissed (not verbatim) that these photos somehow got released to the media during an active investigation. Now to learn there are photos of the shooter in the crime scene on the Net? (The Sheriff must be livid.)
Well, you can see his shoes, pants, a small part of his top and a glove. It's mostly you can see he was well-organized from other photos of the rooms.
Well, you can see his shoes, pants, a small part of his top and a glove. It's mostly you can see he was well-organized from other photos of the rooms.
I didn't see that but there is a leaked picture showing his head after he shot himself in the mouth.
I didn't see that but there is a leaked picture showing his head after he shot himself in the mouth.
That's great. Who on earth would want to see that. Isnt there enough bad sht in the world so why would you promote it?
I know a bunch of mass shooters have links to a lot of different factors from untreated mental health, war time trauma, child abuse, to just wanting to copy cat the Columbine kids who they were obsessed with. But each shooter is his own little case with his own flaws, issues, traumas and histories, and motivations. I hesitate to try and find a blanket explanation to their rise.
Well-said. People are complex and it's best not to simplify or categorize.
My tight-knit community of friends is majorly comprised of people with mental health challenges and their family members, and I've noticed those struggling are all completely different. There's a deep-seated problem in categorizing people into different mental subgroups, because everyone within those subgroups is different in how they operate mentally, and in different ways. Plus, that leads to people thinking there is a distinct difference between the "mentally ill" and the "mentally healthy" people. There isn't a wall separating us, or if there is, it's a man-made one. Everyone's brain operates a little differently, and it's not a categorical thing. The mind doesn't work like that. You can call my brain schizophrenic, but it's just a word people give me. My brain works the way it works - different not just from other people with schizophrenia but anyone ever.
A lot of my bipolar, schizophrenic, etc. brothers and sisters are absolutely brilliant in their own ways, one of those ways being their kindness. A lot of us struggle to fit into society but you know what? Maybe society isn't all that it's cracked up to be. You don't have to fit into society to be a good person. You just have to want to be a good person.
There's definitely a huge stigma surrounding mental illness and it's not helped when people like this guy go around mass murdering people. Because mental health always gets brought up. But anyone is capable of murder. You get the choice. And none of my mentally ill buddies would kill a bunch of people. Sure, some of you might think I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt and secretly they want to. But don't most people who think they're "normal" with wonderful, kind, and mentally sane friends and family say that exact same thing? You always hear people who knew shooters saying they saw no signs that person was like that, that they seemed totally "normal".
People are normal until they shoot a bunch of people, then their mental health is questioned and the stigma against mental illness is bolstered. But don't clump me and my friends with people like this a**hole.
That's great. Who on earth would want to see that. Isnt there enough bad sht in the world so why would you promote it?
I didn't promote anything and I sure as heck don't need to show respect to a psychopathic killer.
The Gunslinger45
10-04-17, 12:59 AM
Well-said. People are complex and it's best not to simplify or categorize.
My tight-knit community of friends is majorly comprised of people with mental health challenges and their family members, and I've noticed those struggling are all completely different. There's a deep-seated problem in categorizing people into different mental subgroups, because everyone within those subgroups are different in how they operate mentally, and in different ways. Plus, that leads to people thinking there is a distinct difference between the "mentally ill" and the "mentally healthy" people. There isn't a wall separating us, or if there is, it's a man-made one. Everyone's brain operates a little differently, and it's not a categorical thing. The mind doesn't work like that. You can call my brain schizophrenic, but it's just a word people give me. My brain works the way it works - different not just from other people with schizophrenia but anyone ever.
A lot of my bipolar, schizophrenic, etc. brothers and sisters are absolutely brilliant in their own ways, one of those ways being their kindness. A lot of us struggle to fit into society but you know what? Maybe society isn't all that it's cracked up to be. You don't have to fit into society to be a good person. You just have to want to be a good person.
There's definitely a huge stigma surrounding mental illness and it's not helped when people like this guy go around mass murdering people. Because mental health always gets brought up. But anyone is capable of murder. You get the choice. And none of my mentally ill buddies would kill a bunch of people. Sure, some of you might think I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt and secretly they want to. But don't most people who think they're "normal" with wonderful, kind, and mentally sane friends and family say that exact same thing? You always hear people who knew shooters saying they saw no signs that person was like that, that they seemed totally "normal".
People are normal until they shoot a bunch of people, then their mental health is questioned and the stigma against mental illness is bolstered. But don't clump me and my friends with people like this a**hole.
I thought I was trying to be clear in one of my posts that mental illness is not a good blanket explanation for these crimes. I apologize if I was not clearer Swan.
I thought I was trying to be clear in one of my earlier posts that mental illness is not a good blanket explanation for these crimes. I apologize if I was not clearer Swan.
OMG dude I was agreeing with you. :laugh: I was going off on a tangent.
The Gunslinger45
10-04-17, 01:01 AM
OMG dude I was agreeing with you. :laugh: I was going off on a tangent.
LOL! Oh good no worries then. lol Tangents away!
Just so all ya'll know, that post wasn't all directed at gunslinger. At the end for example, when I say "don't clump me in..." I'm just talking in general.
Captain Steel
10-04-17, 01:16 AM
Well-said. People are complex and it's best not to simplify or categorize.
My tight-knit community of friends is majorly comprised of people with mental health challenges and their family members, and I've noticed those struggling are all completely different. There's a deep-seated problem in categorizing people into different mental subgroups, because everyone within those subgroups are different in how they operate mentally, and in different ways. Plus, that leads to people thinking there is a distinct difference between the "mentally ill" and the "mentally healthy" people. There isn't a wall separating us, or if there is, it's a man-made one. Everyone's brain operates a little differently, and it's not a categorical thing. The mind doesn't work like that. You can call my brain schizophrenic, but it's just a word people give me. My brain works the way it works - different not just from other people with schizophrenia but anyone ever.
A lot of my bipolar, schizophrenic, etc. brothers and sisters are absolutely brilliant in their own ways, one of those ways being their kindness. A lot of us struggle to fit into society but you know what? Maybe society isn't all that it's cracked up to be. You don't have to fit into society to be a good person. You just have to want to be a good person.
There's definitely a huge stigma surrounding mental illness and it's not helped when people like this guy go around mass murdering people. Because mental health always gets brought up. But anyone is capable of murder. You get the choice. And none of my mentally ill buddies would kill a bunch of people. Sure, some of you might think I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt and secretly they want to. But don't most people who think they're "normal" with wonderful, kind, and mentally sane friends and family say that exact same thing? You always hear people who knew shooters saying they saw no signs that person was like that, that they seemed totally "normal".
People are normal until they shoot a bunch of people, then their mental health is questioned and the stigma against mental illness is bolstered. But don't clump me and my friends with people like this a**hole.
Excellent post, Swan.
I remember after the Virginia Tech massacre, all these people on the news started describing the "red flags" everyone should look for that fit the profile of the killer... the only problem was every one of them was applicable to myself and thousands of other perfectly good, intelligent, peaceful, albeit introverted people (especially when I was in my late teens and just beginning college):
A loner, quiet, sad, introspective, does not reach out to others, doesn't like to ask for help, uncomfortable in social situations, uncomfortable in crowds, seemingly uncomfortable with themselves, socially inept, lacking charisma, feels they can't express themselves adequately, few or no friends, keeps to themselves, creatively or emotionally repressed, seeks solitude, given to depression, reclusive, difficulty making friends, low self esteem, feels victimized, feels alienated, ostracized or that they don't belong, etc.
This "bump fire stock" loop hole is pretty disgusting. Why arent those illegal? This guy used LEGALLY purchased bump fire stocks to alter a dozen semi automatic weapons into weapons that acted for all intents and purposes like fully automatic weapons. But because the bump fire stock doesnt technically physically alter the gun (its just wedges open the trigger mechanism somehow thus allowing you to fire endlessly like an automatic weapon), it remains within the law and an NRA sponsored wink and a nod loop hole into having legal automatic fire power. Can we make these illegal please? Is ANYBODY really against that? If automatic weapons are illegal how can add ons that make semis into autos NOT be illegal exactly? Its thoroughly disgusting.
Gangland
10-04-17, 03:27 PM
According to reports, Stephen Paddock was prescribed diazepam (http://nypost.com/2017/10/04/las-vegas-shooter-was-prescribed-anti-anxiety-meds-over-the-summer/). As per an earlier conversation, I'm not blaming this on mental illness, but the emotional, knee jerk reaction of solely focusing on restricting guns, and not even taking a look at the clear correlation between these psychotropic drugs and these outbursts of mass shootings is very short sided.
Captain Steel
10-04-17, 03:51 PM
According to reports, Stephen Paddock was prescribed diazepam (http://nypost.com/2017/10/04/las-vegas-shooter-was-prescribed-anti-anxiety-meds-over-the-summer/). As per an earlier conversation, I'm not blaming this on mental illness, but the emotional, knee jerk reaction of solely focusing on restricting guns, and not even taking a look at the clear correlation between these psychotropic drugs and these outbursts of mass shootings is very short sided.
Just a general comment - after these incidents, both sides (conservatives / liberal) talk about "solutions." People have to realize there are no solutions. There are preventative measures, precautions, trying to make things safer, improving security, etc., but there are no solutions to stop every potential scenario of disaster.
Violence (including mass casualties caused by very few people via a variety of means) has always occurred and there is no way to make sure it "never" occurs again. It's like the idea of being "safe" - there's no such thing. It's a relative concept. You can be "safer" or "more safe," but no one is ever "safe" no matter where they are or what they are doing.
So I get a little bugged that some propose gun control as a "solution" - I'm not opposed to gun control or more controls, but it's one preventative measure (with many potential subsets under the heading) toward what should be an expansive multi-pronged approach.
Any major or dangerous social problem always requires a multi-pronged approach to improve them - there is no simple fix and no one thing that will be a "solution."
The problem is, political thinkers are so locked into what they are told is their agenda that they won't think outside the box and realize their agenda alone will not "solve" anything, and may only be one implement of the only means that could make an actual difference as far as prevention and protection go. And that is a multi-pronged approach on too many levels to list; far more than just enacting more gun control laws (the effectiveness of which, on an individual level, are themselves debateable).
My mom was prescribed Valium (the same drug) 50 years ago to help her sleep.
Gangland
10-04-17, 04:58 PM
My mom was prescribed Valium (the same drug) 50 years ago to help her sleep.
And my wife currently takes it for anxiety attacks. I'm not trying to demonize the drug, or the person who takes it, but 50 years ago the United States didn't have the largest per capita use of antidepressant/psychotropic (http://uk.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2?r=US&IR=T) drugs. Not all mass killers (shooters) seek out doctors and medication before they kill, but enough of them do it to where we should look at the situation. A person probably seeks out a doctor because they have a problem, and a doctor prescribing medicine that can exasperate these problems is socially and legally accepted as a remedy. As one scientific paper (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4118946/) puts it: “…some substances produce altered cognitive and emotional states, which differ from the normal un-drugged state, and we distinguish these effects from the putative disease-specific effects of prescribed drugs. The distinction matters because, although significant, the consequences of the psychoactive effects of psychiatric medications are not well-recognized.”
Drugs aside, which seems pretty moot at this point anyway, seems that a head or two at the hotel might roll. The supervisor who said staff had been in his room only an hour before lied. Reports now claim no one had been in there since he checked in which is in breach of that hotel's guidelines where a welfare check must be made when a guest uses do not disturb function for more than 24 hours.
And what I dont get is how one older man goes unnoticed taking 10 bags up to his room over three days. Does not compute.
And did his girlfriend not think a sudden $100,000 transfer was suspicious, or were they up to something.
All very odd.
Captain Steel
10-04-17, 05:31 PM
More questions than answers currently:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4948584/Vegas-gunman-ate-burger-bagel-days-massacre.html
And I'm not proposing anything, but conspiracy theories are building:
http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=85339
My question is why so many guns? He had to know that once he started shooting his position would be identified sooner or later (so you wouldn't need like a week's worth of guns).
I have no trouble understanding how he wasn't noticed moving luggage - I've never known a hotel to ever question or search anyone's luggage upon arrival or during their stay. If someone has a lot of luggage or very large bags, it's simply put on a cart to transport it to their room. It's obviously against hotel rules for staff to go through a guest's luggage. Lots of hotels have elevators from parking to floors - where any amount of luggage can be moved without even going through the lobby. Long guns can be disguised and placed in a golf club bag or garment bag.
Stirchley
10-04-17, 05:35 PM
Drugs aside, which seems pretty moot at this point anyway, seems that a head or two at the hotel might roll. The supervisor who said staff had been in his room only an hour before lied. Reports now claim no one had been in there since he checked in which is in breach of that hotel's guidelines where a welfare check must be made when a guest uses do not disturb function for more than 24 hours.
And what I dont get is how one older man goes unnoticed taking 10 bags up to his room over three days. Does not compute.
And did his girlfriend not think a sudden $100,000 transfer was suspicious, or were they up to something.
All very odd.
I was wondering why the hotel staff didn’t see what was in his room. It makes sense to check on a guest who does not want to be disturbed for more than 24 hours. I did not know they do that.
What do you wanna bet they fire underlings rather than managers?
Not sure what his age has got to do with him taking 10 bags to his room. This is America - you can carry 50 bags to your room if you want to. :)
Why would the girlfriend know about the $100K transfer? Surely she didn’t have access to his bank accounts?
I was wondering why the hotel staff didn’t see what was in his room. It makes sense to check on a guest who does not want to be disturbed for more than 24 hours. I did not know they do that.
What do you wanna bet they fire underlings rather than managers?
Not sure what his age has got to do with him taking 10 bags to his room. This is America - you can carry 50 bags to your room if you want to. :)
Why would the girlfriend know about the $100K transfer? Surely she didn’t have access to his bank accounts?
He transferred the money to her when she was in Philippines.
And my comment about a man his age carrying his own bags, I would think hospitality staff would call for a bell hop to assist him.
Stirchley
10-04-17, 05:44 PM
He transferred the money to her when she was in Philippines.
And my comment about a man his age carrying his own bags, I would think hospitality staff would call for a bell hop to assist him.
Gotcha on the money. Hey, if someone wants to transfer $100K to me, I’ll take it.
He may have only taken a few bags up at a time. I always decline to have a bell hop. I hate hotel staff fussing around me.
I'm just thinking this - in this day and age of heightened security not one staff member thought that was a bit odd. Who needs 10 pieces of luggage to stay in a casino. And even if he took them in from different floors, security was never there to watch cctv footage. All just very strange. I cant even get in to my tiny local shopping centre without being seen on cctv.
Captain Steel
10-04-17, 05:58 PM
I'm just thinking this - in this day and age of heightened security not one staff member thought that was a bit odd. Who needs 10 pieces of luggage to stay in a casino. And even if he took them in from different floors, security was never there to watch cctv footage. All just very strange. I cant even get in to my tiny local shopping centre without being seen on cctv.
People moving luggage - even lots of luggage isn't uncommon in a hotel. It's not the kind of activity likely to raise eyebrows as people carrying luggage and luggage being moved on carts goes on all day long.
Also, hotels feature conventions, presentations, etc., so there's constant moving of large equipment, boxes, furniture, etc. The point is, people aren't going to notice things being moved in a place where things constantly being moved is the daily grind.
Whatever was captured on cameras is only relevant after the fact. When nothing happens, then security doesn't spend their time reviewing films of people going in and out of their rooms over the last few days.
This is going back a couple decades, but when I was in security, our camera system used VHS tapes and only a few specific cameras were hooked up to video recorders (making the rest only real-time monitors). We had a set of tapes for each shift. If nothing happened (where there was need to look at a tape) then 24 hours later the same tape (say the one used for day shift) would be rewound and taped over during that tape's shift. So the extent of our camera records was only 24 hours long. It was pretty lame!
Citizen Rules
10-04-17, 06:15 PM
And I'm not proposing anything, but conspiracy theories are building:
http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=85339I'm not even reading that nonsense, people will believe the stupidest stuff:rolleyes: No wonder people join cults. Not saying you of course, as you clearly did not endorse it, but the entire idea of a conspiracy for every major incident, is paramount to the stupidity of humans.
My question is why so many guns? He had to know that once he started shooting his position would be identified sooner or later (so you wouldn't need like a week's worth of guns).
He was a nut and in love with guns, that's why. No that's not a put down of gun owners or of the mentally ill...Just the facts. In fact I own guns.
There's a certain fanaticism that goes hand in hand with automatic weapons, think David Koresh.
Stirchley
10-04-17, 06:57 PM
People moving luggage - even lots of luggage isn't uncommon in a hotel. It's not the kind of activity likely to raise eyebrows as people carrying luggage and luggage being moved on carts goes on all day long.
Also, hotels feature conventions, presentations, etc., so there's constant moving of large equipment, boxes, furniture, etc. The point is, people aren't going to notice things being moved in a place where things constantly being moved is the daily grind.
I agree.
Who needs 10 pieces of luggage to stay in a casino.
I would imagine there are rich people who might take 20 pieces of luggage for a weekend. That’s their business & nobody else’s. Like Captain says, it probably wouldn’t be noticed.
This is going back a couple decades, but when I was in security, our camera system used VHS tapes and only a few specific cameras were hooked up to video recorders (making the rest only real-time monitors). We had a set of tapes for each shift. If nothing happened (where there was need to look at a tape) then 24 hours later the same tape (say the one used for day shift) would be rewound and taped over during that tape's shift. So the extent of our camera records was only 24 hours long. It was pretty lame!
What you did in security a couple of decades ago is irrelevant to the changing times. Maybe security guidelines in your country need a complete overhaul to minimise the number of innocent people getting mass murdered. Just sayin.
Stirchley
10-04-17, 08:02 PM
What you did in security a couple of decades ago is irrelevant to the changing times. Maybe security guidelines in your country need a complete overhaul to minimise the number of innocent people getting mass murdered. Just sayin.
Probably.
Does Australia have cctv everywhere like they do in the U.K. now?
I haven't been into CBD for ages but CCTV has been there for years. Bollards now as well. Even in my sleepy suburb where the only thing that happens is lightning strikes a tree there is CCTV. We even have it for our house, but that's another story. Doesn't bother me, better safe than sorry.
Captain Steel
10-04-17, 08:12 PM
What you did in security a couple of decades ago is irrelevant to the changing times. Maybe security guidelines in your country need a complete overhaul to minimise the number of innocent people getting mass murdered. Just sayin.
It was just a little personal story - I guess the point being; that things like security probably isn't always as comprehensive or efficient as it may appear or that people may think, or could always use improvement.
Where I worked (a large pharma co.), we put on a good show, but if something like a major crime occurred where we needed a tape reviewed from 25 hours prior - we would've been caught with our pants down. And the funny thing is, they didn't even have recorders the first 5 years of my stint there - we only had some pole-mounted cameras relayed to screens in a gatehouse. There was no such thing as "reviewing" a security camera recording as we didn't have any.
But, of course, security is really only as comprehensive as a company is willing to spend money on it to be (and that goes for everything from equipment and technology to the personnel they employ and how much they pay them).
Even after 9/11 we've seen that airport security is horrible as masses of weapons have been taken through checkpoints as part of tests. And for those interested there is the aspect of "Security Theater." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater
Stirchley
10-04-17, 08:25 PM
I forget which news item it was, but I didn’t realize until this year that a gun can be taken onto a plane.
Captain Steel
10-04-17, 08:34 PM
I'm not even reading that nonsense, people will believe the stupidest stuff:rolleyes: No wonder people join cults. Not saying you of course, as you clearly did not endorse it, but the entire idea of a conspiracy for every major incident, is paramount to the stupidity of humans.
He was a nut and in love with guns, that's why. No that's not a put down of gun owners or of the mentally ill...Just the facts. In fact I own guns.
There's a certain fanaticism that goes hand in hand with automatic weapons, think David Koresh.
Okay, so why not bring all he owned (if, say, he wanted all his favorite possessions around him when he died, or some such)? I realize there's no answer at this point to such a question and we can't just make sense out of the senseless if it was a result of some sort of mental breakdown episode.
Why he had so many guns is a question many are asking because, if it wasn't just because he was an eccentric nut who wanted twenty-some different guns with him, then it could suggest a great number of alternate scenarios (running, trading or selling guns, having enough available for a greater number of shooters, guns were brought & left there by others, etc.). People also ask why he had two shooting stands set up in the room? Why he had guns of different caliber (as using ones that all used the same ammo would be more efficient for continuous shooting)?
Obviously, these could all have the same answer of "because he was nuts. If everything insane people did made sense, then they wouldn't be insane."
I'm just repeating questions I heard asked on radio today.
Citizen Rules
10-04-17, 08:51 PM
Okay, so why not bring all he owned (if, say, he wanted all his favorite possessions around him when he died, or some such)? I realize there's no answer at this point to such a question and we can't just make sense out of the senseless if it was a result of some sort of mental breakdown episode.
The most appropriate answer is the one you just posted, in bold.
Humans have a need to make sense of things. When something so senseless as a mass shooting takes place, they look for some logical explanation, but one can't make sense out of chaos.
Actually you said it best:
"because he was nuts. If everything insane people did made sense, then they wouldn't be insane."
Captain Steel
10-04-17, 09:06 PM
The most appropriate answer is the one you just posted, in bold.
Humanshave a need to make sense of things. When something so senseless as a mass shooting takes place, they look for some logical explanation, but one can't make sense out of chaos.
Actually you said it best:
It's also human nature to speculate when no obvious answer is yet available. As long as there's a mystery we will speculate - and so far we still have no motive in this case.
Is knowing a motive that important? Depends on what the motive was. Knowing a motive can do as little as supply some unfathomable explanation or as much as let us know an event isn't actually over even when it appears that it is.
gandalf26
10-05-17, 06:08 AM
Obviously it isn't a reason for what he did but I think the "trigger" sending him over the edge will be losing his so called millions gambling.
Multi millionaire- does this mean he was worth $2.1 million and dribbled it all away with his $10K-$20k habit?
Wired his wife $100k- was this all he had left? Send it to her then go ahead with his massacre.
There's lots of causes to donate to, but as a resident of Las Vegas I definitely wanted to give to support the victims and their families, and here is where I donated to, if anyone else is looking for a place to donate to...
https://www.gofundme.com/dr2ks2-las-vegas-victims-fund
I forget which news item it was, but I didn’t realize until this year that a gun can be taken onto a plane.
As part of your checked luggage in a locked gun case.
I'm not even reading that nonsense, people will believe the stupidest stuff
And getting worse. The conspiracy theories coming out are just mind blowing. I was going to post a few I saw on the net in the last 24 hours but I just cant do it to ya'all.
And I just noticed that one cap linked. 4chan. Those guys need their heads read. Was pizzagate not enough fun for them?
I'm not even reading that nonsense, people will believe the stupidest stuff
And getting worse. The conspiracy theories coming out are just mind blowing. I was going to post a few I saw on the net in the last 24 hours but I just cant do it to ya'all.
And I just noticed that one cap linked. 4chan. Those guys need their heads read. Was pizzagate not enough fun for them?
lol. One my more extreme (borderline militant conspiracy theorists) friends just posted last night that even he thinks a lot of the theories coming out are making people look crazy. That's something for me, to see a tin foil hat supplier say there's too much foil in the mix.
Stirchley
10-06-17, 05:42 PM
As part of your checked luggage in a locked gun case.
Oh, that’s comforting.
Well, yeah, kinda, since people don't have access to their checked luggage on the flight.
The conspiracy theories have made me lose respect for fair amount of people, both in real life and on other sites. Normal people i like whose politics i don't agree with but they are usually pretty level headed. Heard alot of this is a far left conspiracy to take our guns, no way he did it he's a rich guy with no political or religious affiliation: as if money = happy, from them. If they were saying i believe it's going to come out that he was anti-gun or far left or whatever then okay, but they literally believe he was a patsy and he was killed and the weapons were planted. Pretty saddening, and i'm wondering why is this one causing that? Those people who were angry about the gun control discussions after Sandy Hook didn't entertain all the Conspiracy talk after that for a second.
I have no idea what happened obviously and i'll reiterate that i'm making no gun control arguments, just saying that that has been an extra depressing angle from all this.
Those people who were angry about the gun control discussions after Sandy Hook didn't entertain all the Conspiracy talk after that for a second.
It sounds like you're saying there were no conspiracy theories after Sandy Hook but there were tons of conspiracy theories after that shooting. That's when I first became aware of how off-kilter people can be, even more so than 9/11. Now the conspiracy theories after every mass shooting are just to be expected. But yeah, they're a little more transparent with this shooting. On Monday I read someone already predicting the conspiracy theories and the general tone of them, and sure enough they'd begun picking up momentum within 24 hours of the shooting. It's become a joke, except apparently it's real. At the gym on Tuesday some guy started spouting off conspiracy theories to my wife and telling her how CNN was lying to her, and blah blah.
Reality means nothing to these people, and it's creating an environment which is only going to lead to more tragedies.
Citizen Rules
10-06-17, 08:28 PM
I said this on another thread, but it bears repeating....
People put their own agendas into the conspiracies that they choose to believe. In that way they get to write their own narrative and hang it on the backs of the dead.
Those people who were angry about the gun control discussions after Sandy Hook didn't entertain all the Conspiracy talk after that for a second.
It sounds like you're saying there were no conspiracy theories after Sandy Hook but there were tons of conspiracy theories after that shooting. That's when I first became aware of how off-kilter people can be, even more so than 9/11. Now the conspiracy theories after every mass shooting are just to be expected. But yeah, they're a little more transparent with this shooting. On Monday I read someone already predicting the conspiracy theories and the general tone of them, and sure enough they'd begun picking up momentum within 24 hours of the shooting. It's become a joke, except apparently it's real. At the gym on Tuesday some guy started spouting off conspiracy theories to my wife and telling her how CNN was lying to her, and blah blah.
Reality means nothing to these people, and it's creating an environment which is only going to lead to more tragedies.
This isn't so much about the conspiracy side of things as it is more the longer-term side effects of how these ideas really play out for the victims against those willing to take part in fantasy. I found this interview interesting.
Audio in top left.
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/533255636/sandy-hook-parents-slam-nbcs-megyn-kelly-for-alex-jones-interview
Headline is a bit misleading. At least for the points in the interview that I find relevant here.
It sounds like you're saying there were no conspiracy theories after Sandy Hook but there were tons of conspiracy theories after that shooting. That's when I first became aware of how off-kilter people can be, even more so than 9/11. Now the conspiracy theories after every mass shooting are just to be expected. But yeah, they're a little more transparent with this shooting. On Monday I read someone already predicting the conspiracy theories and the general tone of them, and sure enough they'd begun picking up momentum within 24 hours of the shooting. It's become a joke, except apparently it's real. At the gym on Tuesday some guy started spouting off conspiracy theories to my wife and telling her how CNN was lying to her, and blah blah.
Reality means nothing to these people, and it's creating an environment which is only going to lead to more tragedies.
No i said the particular people i was speaking to said nothing after Sandy Hook and in fact ridiculed the conspiracies while everything was going on. My confusion was of why they embrace the latest stuff and ridiculed the Sandy Hook stuff.
I mean how could anyone not know about Sandy Hook Conspiracies? I considered making a favourite Crisis Actor thread when that stuff was popping up so much.
I said this on another thread, but it bears repeating....
People put their own agendas into the conspiracies that they choose to believe. In that way they get to write their own narrative and hang it on the backs of the dead.
We figured out that Milo is definitely a Nazi and that he was really close to Steve Bannon today.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism
One of Milo's passwords was kristallnacht. That kinda makes me think he deliberately leaked it himself but yeah he's an absolute Nazi that Steve Bannon and co loved using.
No i said the particular people i was speaking to said nothing after Sandy Hook and in fact ridiculed the conspiracies while everything was going on. My confusion was of why they embrace the latest stuff and ridiculed the Sandy Hook stuff.
I didn't understand who "those people" were you were talking about in your original post. Anyway, good luck understanding people who believe in conspiracies regarding either shooting. Maybe part of it is a certain level of desensitization in which something crazy feels less crazy after you keep hearing people talking about it. I don't know.
I didn't understand who "those people" were you were talking about in your original post. Anyway, good luck understanding people who believe in conspiracies regarding either shooting. Maybe part of it is a certain level of desensitization in which something crazy feels less crazy after you keep hearing people talking about it. I don't know.
It's just good old fashioned racism/classism IMO. It's the 'he was a rich white dude without any particular leanings' that's making everything so gross to me. Early reports had ISIS claiming it and these people were into i told you so mode, instantly when it didn't match they quickly changed to far-left conspiracy.
My problem was that they aren't the sort of people that normally do that sort of thing, anyway this is a meta discussion about people that aren't here to speak for themselves so it's useless. Thanks for responding, i know what you mean mate.
My confusion was of why they embrace the latest stuff and ridiculed the Sandy Hook stuff.
Nature abhors a vacuum. Sandy Hook was pretty straight forward so only the truly high level paranoid wackos were able to make anything sinister out of it. This? Its a blank page so far. So it invites explanations no matter how ridiculous. Human psychology cant stand the inexplicable or seemingly unlikely for such a traumatic event. Look at the JFK assassination. Having a crazy explanation reduces anxiety.
Whats creepy are the reports that he had gone as far as reserving rooms at hotels at a number different music festivals, some MUCH bigger than this one including Lollapalooza in Chicago which pulls in 100,000 people. Clearly he has been carefully planning this for a long time... This was no "snapping". And he apparently wanted to do even more damage. His first shots were at fuel storage tanks on the other side of the festival grounds. And he had enough explosives in his car to pancake a garage...
There was really early reports about a woman who was walking around saying everyone was going to die before everything happened. Is that the mystery woman? Or is that just thought of as a random homeless woman, someone from Vegas i was talking to said you can't walk down the street without someone telling you you're going to die, we've got a massive homeless problem i don't think it means anything.
That's what he said i meant, that was awkwardly worded.
Captain Steel
10-07-17, 12:47 AM
There was really early reports about a woman who was walking around saying everyone was going to die before everything happened. Is that the mystery woman? Or is that just thought of as a random homeless woman, someone from Vegas i was talking to said you can't walk down the street without someone telling you you're going to die, we've got a massive homeless problem i don't think it means anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex3M-0zWiXc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex3M-0zWiXc
That interviewer woman looks exactly like my cousin...weird. It's probably part of the conspiracy, jot that down guys.
Seriously though that's weird but not the sort of thing i was meaning, thanks for that anyway Captain. Genuinely.
Dexter007
10-07-17, 05:40 PM
Stephen Paddock is an enigma after death, and clearly was one prior to committing the attack. I doubt we'll ever truly understand why he did what he did. Evil is difficult to understand
Captain Steel
10-07-17, 07:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBEBzij1BE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqJZ4jpCZ40
Looking for the " why " .
Here's a white elderly millionaire with and elderly Philippina girlfriend that decides to kill as many people as possible from long distance. We all know the consequence: 59 dead, over 500 injured. The biggest mass shooting in US history.
Definitely not spur of the moment. A lot of planning and preparation, maybe moths stockpiling weapons and scouting locations .Choses
Mandalay Bay Casino country music outdoor concert venue and gets himself two adjoining suites, having different angles to fire automatic weapons into a 20, 000 + crowd, some three football fields across and below.
WHY????
Lone wolf, unlikely given all the circumstances.
An act of terror, definitely. But who are the other actors?
Some thing is off about the girlfriend.
The guy a high roller with lots of money, used to younger women.
A few days before the shooting she is filmed at Las Vegas airport, at departure lounge muttering to herself " a lot of people are going to die " . No source links but a number of sightings and rumors from youtube.. Almost immediately after the shooting, that video gets taken down.
The girlfriend arrives in the Philippines and is wired $100,000.00 by the shooter.
Her transports 9 suitcases filled with weapons to his high roller suites. Barricades himself in after a couple of days and installs wide lens surveillance cameras on his doors to be able to clearly observe the comings and goings on hallway 32. He also disables exit door on his floor as well as the exit doors on the floor below.
As the concert is going on below, a security guard is doing his hall checks. He finds floor 32 exit door disabled. Takes the elevator to floor below and finds that exit door disabled, as well.
He forces the door open, takes the stairwell up and forces the other door open and comes into corridor directly facing one of shooter's rooms, at which point he gets shot in the leg through the door. He immediately radios in to Casino Security Central.
At that time there are 2 off duty Las Vegas Police Officers on the premises.
The shooter is meanwhile breaking windows with a chisel and 6 minutes later he opens up on the crowd below.
In the two rooms, he had 24 modified automatic weapons, They are arranged in rows, 12 to a room. He is wearing gloves to keep his hands from get burned from heated barrels.
He walks between the two rooms, emptying his barrels and substituting new weapons.
This lasts 12 minutes.
50 minutes later, when Las Vegas Swat breaks the door down to one of the adjoining suites, they find the shooter D.O.A. No note.
FBI has taken over and there is deafening silence as to the "why ".
I think that the key is with the girlfriend. Possible ties to Abu Sayyaf, a known terror group in Phillippines?
A few days after the shooting, Isis claims responsibility.
The shooting occurred on Oct. 1, 2017. It is now Oct. 20th, 2017. Isis connection still to be confirmed.
What is going on?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBEBzij1BE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqJZ4jpCZ40
Get to the point! And what's the point? That there was more than one shooter? That has been debunked.
The audio " specialist " is not taking into account that the shots were fired from multiple location angles through cracked windows as well as the first burst inside the room through the door. There would have been 3 distinct different echoes.
wth did I just read. What's your source this time or is it fox news again.
I first want to express my condolences to the victims
Questions that need answering. Where did he get the guns, how did he get them into his gun-free zone casino hotel, what was his motive. For all we know the guy snapped due to a health concern or he wanted a way out from crippling gambling debts. Ultimately the feds are going to get those answers.
FYI casinos in Las Vegas are not gun-free zones. Nevada allows for an open carry but you are not allowed to bring your gun into a casino.
The shooter brought them in 9 suitcases, not all the same time.
He was a known high roller and that's how he got his suites.
Baggage is normally not checked and there are no metal detectors ( just now they have started installing some ).
There is a standard security check point in most big casino's on the strip for cars going into parking garages but that's a lot of profiling. If you are an older white guy, you will be waved through. If you are middle eastern, they might ask to look into your trunk. That's how it was.
Also to clarify that there were reports of two different women talking about impending death. One was the girlfriend at airport, the other was a Caucasian women in the crowd an hour before the shooting began. She was with some guy and they are yet to be identified.
On a more personal note, I know a guy who survived the shooting. He was by himself. His story is slightly different from media's.
The media kept on about how so many people were helping each other during the shooting and stopping and dying for strangers.
My friend was in the middle of it. He only helped himself. Yes, there were a few heroes but for the overwhelming majority it was total pandemonium. People were trampling each other to find some cover and get away. There was absolute panic, as no one had a clue as to where the shots were coming from, when it was going on, for at least the first 5 minutes.
My friend found a fence, jumped it and wound up running to the Hard Rock, which was at least a mile away.
The results of the autopsies have not been confirmed but it is a certainty that a number of people died from other causes than bullets.
Of course the media downplayed the panic but I find it informative as protection and preparation for future attempts.
I feel sad for the people that died on that day, as well as for their families. I know now that measures are being taken to at least make Las Vegas a safer place.
wth did I just read. What's your source this time or is it fox news again.
Racism and bigotry seriously his girlfriend is from the Philippines they have a terrorist group in the named Abu Sayyaf.
But they didn't claim responsibility for the act which is the whole point in being tied to a terrorist organization.
I'm new to the site but if you can take away peoples privileges for thread starting it might be time. This really is just getting ridiculous.
wth did I just read. What's your source this time or is it fox news again.
Racism and bigotry seriously his girlfriend is from the Philippines they have a terrorist group in the named Abu Sayyaf.
But they didn't claim responsibility for the act which is the whole point in being tied to a terrorist organization.
I'm new to the site but if you can take away peoples privileges for thread starting it might be time. This really is just getting ridiculous.
My reply to that guy was about his investigative powers or lack thereof.
Captain Steel
10-20-17, 03:47 PM
Racism and bigotry seriously his girlfriend is from the Philippines they have a terrorist group in the named Abu Sayyaf.
But they didn't claim responsibility for the act which is the whole point in being tied to a terrorist organization.
I'm new to the site but if you can take away peoples privileges for thread starting it might be time. This really is just getting ridiculous.
Say what now? Care to expand on exactly what you are suggesting? You want to take away people's privileges to start threads.
Say what now? Care to expand on exactly what you are suggesting? You want to take away people's privileges to start threads.
Not you, the person who started a different thread and had it merged.
Not you, the person who started a different thread and had it merged.
Now wait a minute - why not him? :cool:
Captain Steel
10-20-17, 04:05 PM
Not you, the person who started a different thread and had it merged.
Did my thread get merged? (Now it's like an Alien hybrid!) ;)
That's cool. I can't stand when boards get cluttered with redundant threads.
I have lots of thoughts on this incident (that I've been discussing on other boards) - but right now, the most overwhelming aspect (from the perspective of an outside observer in the general public, that is) is the silence. This is the single largest mass shooting in the country's history, but there's so much missing or uncommunicated info, along with changing timelines, unanswered questions, people involved disappearing, mysterious deaths of eye-witnesses who weren't injured in the attack, etc., etc.
As one newscaster pointed out - the authorities are at the point where they are publicly denying conspiracies (which, in itself seems to be the actions of people involved in conspiracies), but the extreme LACK of information creates a fertile ground for conspiracy theories to fill the void.
Captain Steel
10-20-17, 04:06 PM
Now wait a minute - why not him? :cool:
OH, a wise guy, eh? ;)
Just to make an update since my trip to Vegas:
Once I arrived (the saturday after the shooting) all Blood Banks as far as Henderson had stopped taking walk ins and you had to schedule an appointment and all appointments were booked through November at that point so was not able to give blood (will be giving blood at home though). But I did run across a couple who had been at the festival during the shooting and talked with them.They told me they thought for the ENTIRE time that the shooter was somewhere in the crowd. It wasnt until the next day that they heard he had been shooting from the Mandalay Bay. Being locals, they actually went a different direction from most of the crowd, knowing they would wind up in the crush of people fleeing north of the event and get penned in there by police and security and ambulances pretty quickly. So they ditched their car, ran RIGHT PAST the hotel and toward the highway and managed to catch a cab and get out of the area pretty quickly since they lived to the west. The woman, who just happened to have gotten her masters in counseling and through a past job had received training in helping people who had experienced a traumatic situation, figured she would be fine because of that and she said they were both sharp and focused and calm the rest of that night but the next day after the adrenaline had worn off and she first saw recordings of the event on the news she got physically ill which shocked her. I told her thats hardly a shock. Youll likely be dealing with this one internally for a long time. Counseling experience wont make you immune. She agreed.
The Strip itself was still fairly bustling while I was there. You cant really keep the place down when the area it occurred is 95% tourists who have had their vaction planned long before this and are looking to gamble and walk around and take in the decadence that is The Strip. That never stopped. Other colleagues told me the mood was certainly more subdued earlier in the week before i got there and of course security was massively amplified that whole week I was there. I had already planned a post-work vacation in Arizona before this all happened so I was gone by the following Saturday. When I came back to fly home from McCarran most of the spontaneous remembrance site with candles and stuffed animals had been removed. Not sure why. But there was very little trace of it by less than two weeks after.
Theres a big push in the area to show that they are "Vegas Strong". Thats understandable I guess. But Im not sure what that even means in this context. If this was ISIS or some group trying to intimidate americans by doing this then it would make perfect sense. I would have gone down to Mandalay Bay as soon as I arrived and happily gambled myself into a stupor knowing I was openly defying a group that had JUST tried to scare us from doing just that. But when its one local guy who did it for no known reason then killed himself, what are we being "strong" for? And against whom? Maybe "Vegas Heals" would be better. But all the billboards and local TV commercials and people handing out stickers seemed useless somehow. All thats left after this is to heal the people who have been hurt by this. Theres no one to defy by keeping living our lives. And that was a depressing helpless revelation for me...
Captain Steel
10-20-17, 04:21 PM
I. Rex - I always have similar feelings about platitudes & affirmations after mass murders, terror attacks or natural disasters.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with them, but do they REALLY make the victims feel better? I know help and aid and knowing others care makes some people feel better, but slogans? Does hearing that Vegas is "strong" really console someone who has to put a relative into the ground?
I remember when I first started seeing "Jersey Strong!" after Sandy. I didn't know how it made me feel (part of me thought it was a little ridiculous because, in addition to all the coming together I witnessed, I also witnessed a lot of selfish and nasty behavior as well.)
Racism and bigotry seriously his girlfriend is from the Philippines they have a terrorist group in the named Abu Sayyaf.
But they didn't claim responsibility for the act which is the whole point in being tied to a terrorist organization.
I'm new to the site but if you can take away peoples privileges for thread starting it might be time. This really is just getting ridiculous.
Racism?? You need to stop trolling!
Maybe you need an interpreter as well. This last time I am game.
Isis claimed responsibility for shooting. Abu Sayyaf has ties with Isis.
Abu Sayyaf is located in Mindanao, in the Philippines.
The shooter's girlfriend is Philippina and went to the Philippines 2 days prior to the shooting and was subsequently wired $100,000 by the shooter. ( Perhaps as payment for weapons ).
Get my drift? What is racist about that?
Stop trolling my posts! You are now officially on my ignore list so no matter what you write, I won't read and I won't respond.
I am not posting for you, so don't waste your time any more. Bye!
Captain Steel
10-20-17, 04:43 PM
I made up this little list of theories (not only conspiracy theories, but the most common and those given by the media thus far).
This is merely a summary with potentially interchangeable details. Let me know if I missed any:
Paddock as Lone Shooter (under this one scenario there are several theories):
1. Paddock was a pent up mental case (although atypical in that he showed no red flags, left no manifesto and didn't fit the usual profile) who finally "snapped" in a systematic fashion. He took half his extensive gun collection with him to a hotel room just because he liked to be surrounded by his toys even though he knew he wouldn't need them all. He planned mass murder for a long time - and finally went on a spree to kill as many random individuals as possible as part of some insane "Power Trip" delusion before killing himself.
2. As a possible addendum to #1 - Paddock was driven insane by long term gambling addiction, alcoholism, drug abuse, anxiety, depression, childhood trauma or influence from his father who had been a bank robber.
3. Paddock had converted to Islam months ago, was given the name "Abu Abd al-Bar al-Amriki" and was carrying out ISIS inspired terrorism as a "lone-wolf" operative in the name of Allah and the Caliphate.
4. Paddock was a deranged political zealot, inspired by groups like Antifa and the 2017 Congressional Baseball Shooting who thought he'd target a Country / Western festival, figuring it would contain the demographic of Republican Trump supporters and that his actions would spark a revocation of the 2nd amendment.
5. Paddock was a deranged political zealot, inspired by groups like the Alt-Right, White Supremacists, Nazis, the KKK. etc., who wanted to defend his 2nd amendment rights (which he felt were threatened by the left) with a show of gunfire and random mass murder, choosing the most convenient venue available at the time.
6. Paddock loved numbers and records - he used his extensive collection of guns to break the U.S. record of largest mass casualty shooting (this could also go hand in hand with #1 or 2).
Paddock Acted with Others:
1. As an enemy of America, the west, infidels, whites, capitalists, etc., He was an agent of ISIS, Anti-Fa, BLM, Alt-Right groups, the Russians, North Korea, etc. In this type scenario, Paddock was a "terrorist" in the most political sense of the word (of course, terrorists are usually cause-driven and will usually leave word that they acted for their cause - which, so far, is not the case here). This would also mean that terrorists allied with Paddock are still on the loose (a reason some feel his connections are being covered up - to avoid panic of killers on the loose).
2. Paddock carried out a "false flag" event in collusion with the U.S. government (the scenarios are far and wide even including those that say no one was even killed on 10/01/2017).
Paddock was a Patsy:
1. As an agent or hired out contractor of the FBI, he was ordered, hired or recruited by the FBI to conduct a "Fast And Furious" style gun running deal with criminals or terrorists, possibly in a sting operation. The sting went wrong - the criminals murdered Paddock and conducted the massacre, and now the FBI is trying to cover it up.
2. A similar scenario, but where it was an actual arms deal for the FBI with unsavory buyers (such as ISIS) that went wrong. Paddock was killed and the FBI wants to cover up their dealings with terrorists.
3. Similar to #1 - Paddock himself was a gunrunner in a deal that went sour. The criminals may have even forced him to participate, unwillingly in the massacre, then killed him. Or he may have killed himself after being forced to participate and witnessing the outcome.
4. Paddock, in some scenario, may have just been a frequent visitor to Las Vegas who was somehow chosen by forces unknown to take the fall for this massacre. He may or may not even be dead. He may or may not even be a real person.
So, the details of these (currently popular) scenarios can all be mixed and matched to form various different or similar scenarios and conspiracies.
Which ones do you buy into?
Any different ones you think may be possible / plausible?
Racism?? You need to stop trolling!
Maybe you need an interpreter as well. This last time I am game.
Isis claimed responsibility for shooting. Abu Sayyaf has ties with Isis.
Abu Sayyaf is located in Mindanao, in the Philippines.
The shooter's girlfriend is Philippina and went to the Philippines 2 days prior to the shooting and was subsequently wired $100,000 by the shooter. ( Perhaps as payment for weapons ).
Get my drift? What is racist about that?
Stop trolling my posts! You are now officially on my ignore list so no matter what you write, I won't read and I won't respond.
I am not posting for you, so don't waste your time any more. Bye!
Yeah that's racist, it's pretty much the definition of racism you are a racist.
To say this 62 year old woman is a terrorist because she's Philippina and terrorists exist in the Philippines.
Citizen Rules
10-20-17, 05:56 PM
Looking for the " why " .
Here's a white elderly millionaire with and elderly Philippina girlfriend that decides to kill as many people as possible from long distance. We all know the consequence: 59 dead, over 500 injured. The biggest mass shooting in US history.
Definitely not spur of the moment. A lot of planning and preparation, maybe moths stockpiling weapons and scouting locations .Choses
Mandalay Bay Casino country music outdoor concert venue and gets himself two adjoining suites, having different angles to fire automatic weapons into a 20, 000 + crowd, some three football fields across and below.
WHY????
Lone wolf, unlikely given all the circumstances.
An act of terror, definitely. But who are the other actors?
Some thing is off about the girlfriend.
The guy a high roller with lots of money, used to younger women.
A few days before the shooting she is filmed at Las Vegas airport, at departure lounge muttering to herself " a lot of people are going to die " . No source links but a number of sightings and rumors from youtube.. Almost immediately after the shooting, that video gets taken down.
The girlfriend arrives in the Philippines and is wired $100,000.00 by the shooter.
Her transports 9 suitcases filled with weapons to his high roller suites. Barricades himself in after a couple of days and installs wide lens surveillance cameras on his doors to be able to clearly observe the comings and goings on hallway 32. He also disables exit door on his floor as well as the exit doors on the floor below.
As the concert is going on below, a security guard is doing his hall checks. He finds floor 32 exit door disabled. Takes the elevator to floor below and finds that exit door disabled, as well.
He forces the door open, takes the stairwell up and forces the other door open and comes into corridor directly facing one of shooter's rooms, at which point he gets shot in the leg through the door. He immediately radios in to Casino Security Central.
At that time there are 2 off duty Las Vegas Police Officers on the premises.
The shooter is meanwhile breaking windows with a chisel and 6 minutes later he opens up on the crowd below.
In the two rooms, he had 24 modified automatic weapons, They are arranged in rows, 12 to a room. He is wearing gloves to keep his hands from get burned from heated barrels.
He walks between the two rooms, emptying his barrels and substituting new weapons.
This lasts 12 minutes.
50 minutes later, when Las Vegas Swat breaks the door down to one of the adjoining suites, they find the shooter D.O.A. No note.
FBI has taken over and there is deafening silence as to the "why ".
I think that the key is with the girlfriend. Possible ties to Abu Sayyaf, a known terror group in Phillippines?
A few days after the shooting, Isis claims responsibility.
The shooting occurred on Oct. 1, 2017. It is now Oct. 20th, 2017. Isis connection still to be confirmed.
What is going on?Hmmm....http://cerpin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/hewan-campuran-yang-kelihatan-unik-dan-seram-owl-moth.jpeg
He looks innocent enough to me;)
Hmmm....http://cerpin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/hewan-campuran-yang-kelihatan-unik-dan-seram-owl-moth.jpeg
He looks innocent enough to me;)
I think he was thinking of this sort of mothhttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1R_8Vei0rBR5meoGq20g-GP0rXPyBNMcIwAb8l8iiHAjZAXF1
That's one of the good moth's, that's a moth that can catch a cab and won't lower property values.
Citizen Rules
10-20-17, 06:17 PM
I think he was thinking of this sort of mothhttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1R_8Vei0rBR5meoGq20g-GP0rXPyBNMcIwAb8l8iiHAjZAXF1
That's one of the good moth's, that's a moth that can catch a cab and won't lower property values.
I was just teasin' about the misspelled word, Moth/Month, I wasn't making any other kind of statement other than just a fun word play.
Racism?? You need to stop trolling!
Maybe you need an interpreter as well. This last time I am game.
Isis claimed responsibility for shooting. Abu Sayyaf has ties with Isis.
Abu Sayyaf is located in Mindanao, in the Philippines.
The shooter's girlfriend is Philippina and went to the Philippines 2 days prior to the shooting and was subsequently wired $100,000 by the shooter. ( Perhaps as payment for weapons ).
Get my drift? What is racist about that?
Stop trolling my posts! You are now officially on my ignore list so no matter what you write, I won't read and I won't respond.
I am not posting for you, so don't waste your time any more. Bye!
Siddon is not a troll. You on the other hand...
Captain Steel
10-20-17, 08:32 PM
So what do people think of the Mandalay Bay security guard (Jesus Campos) appearing on Ellen?
Stirchley
10-20-17, 08:39 PM
So what do people think of the Mandalay Bay security guard (Jesus Campos) appearing on Ellen?
What do you think of it?
Ludicrous for anyone to give an interview while an investigation is in process.
Captain Steel
10-20-17, 08:55 PM
What do you think of it?
At first I thought it was a very weird venue for the guy to come out of hiding on as Ellen is not a news show.
It was preceded by Mr. Campos' week-long disappearance which occurred just before he had five news interviews lined up.
It started making sense once we found out the Ellen Show is owned by MGM which also owns the Mandalay Bay hotel (which has multiple liability lawsuits forming against it), and when Campos said this would be his only public appearance or statement.
This was a set up. It was basically a liability pre-statement from MGM, as demonstrated by the fact that there was no investigative journalism involved: Ellen didn't ask a single pertinent question that would provide clarity to a still very cloudy series of events.
I don't see the big deal in telling the story of how you got shot.
Disappearance? More conspiracy theories. He simply sought some privacy while recovering. Good grief. My dental fillings are starting to chatter in tongues
Captain Steel
10-20-17, 09:36 PM
I don't see the big deal in telling the story of how you got shot.
However he (or his handlers) may feel about it, his story is pertinent to the timeline - which has changed multiple times based on different pieces of evidence. His story contains many pieces of evidence, especially as the person who may have been physically closest to the shooter at the time of the attack.
The timeline leads into many larger issues & questions. And the more questions that can be answered, the closer we may get to the truth.
However he (or his handlers) may feel about it, his story is pertinent to the timeline - which has changed multiple times based on different pieces of evidence. His story contains many pieces of evidence, especially as the person who may have been physically closest to the shooter at the time of the attack.
The timeline leads into many larger issues & questions. And the more questions that can be answered, the closer we may get to the truth.
Like what? He doesn't really establish a timeline because you don't know the time between when he got shot and when the other guys showed up. We know the shooter had camera's everywhere so a Hall Way shooting doesn't really mean anything.
I would recommend you watch the film Tower that covered the Whitman shootings
Stirchley
10-20-17, 11:11 PM
I would recommend you watch the film Tower that covered the Whitman shootings
Terrific documentary.
At first I thought it was a very weird venue for the guy to come out of hiding on as Ellen is not a news show.
It was preceded by Mr. Campos' week-long disappearance which occurred just before he had five news interviews lined up.
It started making sense once we found out the Ellen Show is owned by MGM which also owns the Mandalay Bay hotel (which has multiple liability lawsuits forming against it), and when Campos said this would be his only public appearance or statement.
This was a set up. It was basically a liability pre-statement from MGM, as demonstrated by the fact that there was no investigative journalism involved: Ellen didn't ask a single pertinent question that would provide clarity to a still very cloudy series of events.
The FBI probably also grilled him and warned him not to make any detailed statements during an ongoing investigation.
I made up this little list of theories (not only conspiracy theories, but the most common and those given by the media thus far).
This is merely a summary with potentially interchangeable details. Let me know if I missed any:
Paddock as Lone Shooter (under this one scenario there are several theories):
1. Paddock was a pent up mental case (although atypical in that he showed no red flags, left no manifesto and didn't fit the usual profile) who finally "snapped" in a systematic fashion. He took half his extensive gun collection with him to a hotel room just because he liked to be surrounded by his toys even though he knew he wouldn't need them all. He planned mass murder for a long time - and finally went on a spree to kill as many random individuals as possible as part of some insane "Power Trip" delusion before killing himself.
2. As a possible addendum to #1 - Paddock was driven insane by long term gambling addiction, alcoholism, drug abuse, anxiety, depression, childhood trauma or influence from his father who had been a bank robber.
3. Paddock had converted to Islam months ago, was given the name "Abu Abd al-Bar al-Amriki" and was carrying out ISIS inspired terrorism as a "lone-wolf" operative in the name of Allah and the Caliphate.
4. Paddock was a deranged political zealot, inspired by groups like Antifa and the 2017 Congressional Baseball Shooting who thought he'd target a Country / Western festival, figuring it would contain the demographic of Republican Trump supporters and that his actions would spark a revocation of the 2nd amendment.
5. Paddock was a deranged political zealot, inspired by groups like the Alt-Right, White Supremacists, Nazis, the KKK. etc., who wanted to defend his 2nd amendment rights (which he felt were threatened by the left) with a show of gunfire and random mass murder, choosing the most convenient venue available at the time.
6. Paddock loved numbers and records - he used his extensive collection of guns to break the U.S. record of largest mass casualty shooting (this could also go hand in hand with #1 or 2).
Paddock Acted with Others:
1. As an enemy of America, the west, infidels, whites, capitalists, etc., He was an agent of ISIS, Anti-Fa, BLM, Alt-Right groups, the Russians, North Korea, etc. In this type scenario, Paddock was a "terrorist" in the most political sense of the word (of course, terrorists are usually cause-driven and will usually leave word that they acted for their cause - which, so far, is not the case here). This would also mean that terrorists allied with Paddock are still on the loose (a reason some feel his connections are being covered up - to avoid panic of killers on the loose).
2. Paddock carried out a "false flag" event in collusion with the U.S. government (the scenarios are far and wide even including those that say no one was even killed on 10/01/2017).
Paddock was a Patsy:
1. As an agent or hired out contractor of the FBI, he was ordered, hired or recruited by the FBI to conduct a "Fast And Furious" style gun running deal with criminals or terrorists, possibly in a sting operation. The sting went wrong - the criminals murdered Paddock and conducted the massacre, and now the FBI is trying to cover it up.
2. A similar scenario, but where it was an actual arms deal for the FBI with unsavory buyers (such as ISIS) that went wrong. Paddock was killed and the FBI wants to cover up their dealings with terrorists.
3. Similar to #1 - Paddock himself was a gunrunner in a deal that went sour. The criminals may have even forced him to participate, unwillingly in the massacre, then killed him. Or he may have killed himself after being forced to participate and witnessing the outcome.
4. Paddock, in some scenario, may have just been a frequent visitor to Las Vegas who was somehow chosen by forces unknown to take the fall for this massacre. He may or may not even be dead. He may or may not even be a real person.
So, the details of these (currently popular) scenarios can all be mixed and matched to form various different or similar scenarios and conspiracies.
Which ones do you buy into?
Any different ones you think may be possible / plausible?
Most likely 1 or 3 if Lone Wolf
1 if in concert with others
I've deleted a bunch of posts, which won't surprise any of you who were involved.
Please do not needlessly and deliberately escalate conflict. That's a message for pretty much all of the parties involved. Even if you're right, and even if you didn't start it, if you reply just to tweak someone and ratchet up the tension further, that's still part of the problem.
Captain Steel
10-21-17, 01:39 PM
What's really strange is how quickly this story has gone out of the "news cycle."
Yes, it's still mentioned on network TV news once in awhile, but those mentions are now usually commenting on how there is inexplicably no news, no updates or no new information about it.
With it being the single largest shooting massacre in U.S. history and more questions surrounding it than the Kennedy assassination, there should be updates every day on every station. (Many surmise that authorities count on the predictability of the news cycles to quickly sweep incidents like this under the rug so that it is forgotten within a few weeks by the public consciousness, and that action decreases the scrutiny and amount & frequency of questions asked.)
We have to assume that there are teams of investigators working on this: reviewing hotel and casino security cameras, interviewing witnesses, hotel staff who may have dealt with the shooter and people in the hotel near the 32nd floor, scouring the hotels, pouring through the alleged shooter's computer files & phone records, investigating the ISIS claims, compiling and coordinating police and first responder reports & transmissions, investigating the girlfriend and where the 100 grand was sent, examining all the cell phone videos, etc.
There are only a handful of cell phone videos on the web, but we know approximately 22,000 people were in attendance with cell phones (as seen in the "God Bless America" footage that took place before the attack, where the crowd held up their cell phones).
Granted, most people are not going to film in a panic, but since we know some did and that many were already filming as the attack started and that many kept filming as they ran, it's safe to believe there are probably at least hundreds (if not thousands) more cell phone videos out there than the few on the web. (Although many surmise that those containing pertinent evidence, those of the fallen, those cell phones dropped on the site or lost have all be confiscated by the FBI.)
And there must be more recordings, not just those of people at the concert, but people on the streets, near or in the hotels, in their cars, etc. (such as the taxi driver who recorded what has now come to be called the "Las Vegas Zapruder" film).
Forgive for referencing FOX News (which I know many of you disregard) but listen to the words of Mark Steyn who makes a poignant statement with "Nothing is proceeding normally in this case."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA96zsfErrs
The authorities arent obligated to give you daily news during an investigation, and come on, what sort of civilised society is going to bay for cell video footage of hundreds of people being shot (or is this endemic to the land of the firearm). You complain about the lack of violent news all the time; I'm not sure why you're so impatient. Go watch a blood bath movie if you are so desperate to fulfill your blood lust. The only thing that would come out of daily spoon feeding is 1. entertainment for ghouls and 2. give them even more reason to be irrational about conspiracy theories. Not very healthy.
Captain Steel
10-21-17, 04:25 PM
The authorities arent obligated to give you daily news during an investigation, and come on, what sort of civilised society is going to bay for cell video footage of hundreds of people being shot (or is this endemic to the land of the firearm). You complain about the lack of violent news all the time; I'm not sure why you're so impatient. Go watch a blood bath movie if you are so desperate to fulfill your blood lust. The only thing that would come out of daily spoon feeding is 1. entertainment for ghouls and 2. give them even more reason to be irrational about conspiracy theories. Not very healthy.
A lot of assumptions there.
The desire to understand the timeline, the motive and the question of additional individuals is key because without said answers the danger may be as present as it was on October first.
Everything rests upon establishing some of these points in a case where many people are still claiming:
there were multiple shooters (including police claims at the time),
multiple directions of gunfire (even police scanners recorded as saying shots were coming from the opposite directions of the parking lots),
multiple weapons potentially being fired simultaneously (as supported by several audio analyses & witness testimonies),
multiple claims of other gunfire incidents in the area,
reports of forewarnings by unknown individuals,
an inexplicable number of arms and shooting points for one person (suggesting there may have been more than one),
external claims of responsibility by a terrorist group, and...
where police said shortly into the investigation that the shooter could not have acted alone.
If ANY of these scenarios are true or even possible, then that means the danger may still exist, and that those responsible are currently at large until such variables can be absolutely ruled out.
So far the authorities have only stated what little they know or what they suspect - but they haven't absolutely been able to rule anything out because they haven't even been able to establish a stable timeline yet.
It's been 3 weeks since the attack - by this time they should be able to absolutely establish some facts, completely rule out other scenarios and assure the public that no other responsible parties (which THEY THEMSELVES claimed the killer MUST have had) are loose. But so far all they've said is they "think" Paddock acted alone, but they can't find anything about him, after 3 weeks they still can't establish a definitive timeline or a single indication towards a motive, they feel the need to publicly deny withholding information & conspiracies, while ISIS has tripled down on claims of affiliation.
They've basically gone silent after stating they really don't know much.
A lot of assumptions there.
Read that again and wait for the penny to drop, cap.
They've basically gone silent after stating they really don't know much.
So if they dont know much, and for goodness sake, yet another monster assumption, what do you expect them to do to entertain you.
I used to think your wasted energy with conspiracy theories was just to kick up some silly harmless fun chit chat. These days you make me sad. I hope 4chan and it's conspiracy pages one day leaves your house.
Captain Steel
10-21-17, 04:46 PM
Read that again and wait for the penny to drop, cap.
So if they dont know much, and for goodness sake, yet another monster assumption, what do you expect them to do to entertain you.
Well, the fact that they've only communicated that they don't know much is the issue, isn't it?
3 weeks with teams of police and FBI pouring over the various things I mentioned in a previous post... and they don't know much?
Common sense dictates that they MUST have more info from hotel & casino security cameras - they must have records of the alleged shooter's checking in, his coming and going. Even if he wasn't coming and going, hotel managers have stated that a "do not disturb" sign hung for more than 12 hours requires a mandatory check of the patron's room! There must be more cell phone video evidence as thousands of people were recording. There are more witnesses (but some claim they've been refused to be heard or interviewed by the press if their story includes multiple shooters or additional incidents).
The authorities' claims that they don't know anything more than what they've told us... after 3 weeks of teams of detectives, agents and analysts working on it... are dubious.
Their going silent as the news cycle pushes the story out of the public eye is dubious.
This lack of information forces to people to think that what they have found must be so horrendous that they don't dare inform the public (or that it is embarrassing or incriminating to them, or that they fear causing a panic by revealing they've been barking up the wrong tree or there may be more people responsible on the loose).
Well, the fact that they've only communicated that they don't know much is the issue, isn't it? .
No. You're just turning it into a mole hill.
Captain Steel
10-21-17, 04:51 PM
Read that again and wait for the penny to drop, cap.
So if they dont know much, and for goodness sake, yet another monster assumption, what do you expect them to do to entertain you.
I used to think your wasted energy with conspiracy theories was just to kick up some silly harmless fun chit chat. These days you make me sad. I hope 4chan and it's conspiracy pages one day leaves your house.
I find it interesting... in almost every controversial / news / or current events conversation, that you want to talk more about me (or others posting) than anything else. While I'm discussing the topic and not addressing anything toward you directly. In fact this is the first post where I've said the word "you" (meaning you, Dani, specifically) in weeks, trying to avoid your turning these conversations into personal indictments.
in almost every controversial / news / or current events conversation, that you want to talk more about me .
eh? Another assumption, and so far off the beam. What's to discuss while no new facts have come to light - conspiracy theories?
Captain Steel
10-21-17, 05:03 PM
As Mark Steyn pointed out (which was the reason for posting his clip) - one doesn't need to be a conspiracy theorist on any level to identify that nothing is proceeding normally in this case.
matt72582
10-21-17, 05:41 PM
As Mark Steyn pointed out (which was the reason for posting his clip) - one doesn't need to be a conspiracy theorist on any level to identify that nothing is proceeding normally in this case.
Telling someone they are a "conspiracy theorist" seems to be the most "effective" use of alternative argument.
More than one person = conspiracy..... People read that word and think grandiose, because they've been programmed that way.
If everyone is tossing out possibilities, maybe the guy just had an empty life... All he did was gamble, and probably ran out of the cheap thrills that money could buy....
Sometimes "I Don't Know" is the best answer.
Captain Steel
10-21-17, 06:09 PM
Telling someone they are a "conspiracy theorist" seems to be the most "effective" use of alternative argument.
More than one person = conspiracy..... People read that word and think grandiose, because they've been programmed that way.
If everyone is tossing out possibilities, maybe the guy just had an empty life... All he did was gamble, and probably ran out of the cheap thrills that money could buy....
Sometimes "I Don't Know" is the best answer.
If I understand correctly, Matt, you're suggesting that we may never know the shooter's motive - he was just a kill-crazy nut who had an episode of mass homicide before committing suicide. And if that truly is the case, then it is what it is.
However, we don't currently know that's the case and the authorities don't know that is the case. They've told us they don't know exactly what the case is - and their relative silence over the last week indicates that they haven't learned anything more then "they don't know," or, what they've found out is too dangerous to report.
Therefore "I Don't Know" (so let's just forget about it) is not an acceptable answer from the point of view of the public or the authorities right now.
Given the many claims, police reports, variables and questions I pointed out in a previous post, until we're certain that "it was just one crazy guy, we don't know why he did it and we'll never know" is the only answer, then we can't afford to assume that "I Don't Know" is the answer. For reasons of public safety, this is an unacceptable & imprudent assumption to make in regards to a mass casualty attack at this point.
Know what I'm sayin'?
You can kinda blame conspiracy theorists themselves for tainting otherwise reasonable lines of questioning with their implications. I think it's increasingly clear that something about this situation is being withheld, or has perhaps been misreported, but it's impossible to say that without sounding like you're positing a conspiracy, because conspiracy theorists like to cloak their accusations in the guise of healthy skepticism, questions, or general inquiry.
matt72582
10-21-17, 09:37 PM
If I understand correctly, Matt, you're suggesting that we may never know the shooter's motive - he was just a kill-crazy nut who had an episode of mass homicide before committing suicide. And if that truly is the case, then it is what it is.
However, we don't currently know that's the case and the authorities don't know that is the case. They've told us they don't know exactly what the case is - and their relative silence over the last week indicates that they haven't learned anything more then "they don't know," or, what they've found out is too dangerous to report.
Therefore "I Don't Know" (so let's just forget about it) is not an acceptable answer from the point of view of the public or the authorities right now.
Given the many claims, police reports, variables and questions I pointed out in a previous post, until we're certain that "it was just one crazy guy, we don't know why he did it and we'll never know" is the only answer, then we can't afford to assume that "I Don't Know" is the answer. For reasons of public safety, this is an unacceptable & imprudent assumption to make in regards to a mass casualty attack at this point.
Know what I'm sayin'?
Oh totally. I was referring to the comments here.... not the police!
matt72582
10-21-17, 09:39 PM
You can kinda blame conspiracy theorists themselves for tainting otherwise reasonable lines of questioning with their implications. I think it's increasingly clear that something about this situation is being withheld, or has perhaps been misreported, but it's impossible to say that without sounding like you're positing a conspiracy, because conspiracy theorists like to cloak their accusations in the guise of healthy skepticism, questions, or general inquiry.
Part of it is the exploitation and the business of it... The first person people think of is Alex Jones, who is nothing but an opportunist. The crazier the story (how every shooting is fake, etc), the more money he makes. If he were to say something true, many won't believe him because of his bad reputation... I think it's good for the people to ask questions, and let the establishment answer them.
What's really strange is how quickly this story has gone out of the "news cycle."
Yes, it's still mentioned on network TV news once in awhile, but those mentions are now usually commenting on how there is inexplicably no news, no updates or no new information about it.
With it being the single largest shooting massacre in U.S. history and more questions surrounding it than the Kennedy assassination, there should be updates every day on every station. (Many surmise that authorities count on the predictability of the news cycles to quickly sweep incidents like this under the rug so that it is forgotten within a few weeks by the public consciousness, and that action decreases the scrutiny and amount & frequency of questions asked.)
We have to assume that there are teams of investigators working on this: reviewing hotel and casino security cameras, interviewing witnesses, hotel staff who may have dealt with the shooter and people in the hotel near the 32nd floor, scouring the hotels, pouring through the alleged shooter's computer files & phone records, investigating the ISIS claims, compiling and coordinating police and first responder reports & transmissions, investigating the girlfriend and where the 100 grand was sent, examining all the cell phone videos, etc.
There are only a handful of cell phone videos on the web, but we know approximately 22,000 people were in attendance with cell phones (as seen in the "God Bless America" footage that took place before the attack, where the crowd held up their cell phones).
Granted, most people are not going to film in a panic, but since we know some did and that many were already filming as the attack started and that many kept filming as they ran, it's safe to believe there are probably at least hundreds (if not thousands) more cell phone videos out there than the few on the web. (Although many surmise that those containing pertinent evidence, those of the fallen, those cell phones dropped on the site or lost have all be confiscated by the FBI.)
And there must be more recordings, not just those of people at the concert, but people on the streets, near or in the hotels, in their cars, etc. (such as the taxi driver who recorded what has now come to be called the "Las Vegas Zapruder" film).
Forgive for referencing FOX News (which I know many of you disregard) but listen to the words of Mark Steyn who makes a poignant statement with "Nothing is proceeding normally in this case."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA96zsfErrs
Yeah, the FBI is keeping things under wraps. They are working in reverse, trying to establish a time line where they can establish the very beginning of his preparation and possible contacts that led to the events of Oct 1.
The fact that they are keeping silent most likely indicates that they are tracking some one that can provide more detail but they don't want to spook, who ever it is.
I just have a feeling that the girlfriend knows more and see her as some kind of a courier or go between.
It makes sense that the shooter would use some one ( or perhaps was used himself ) to establish contact on foreign soil, where it would be harder to trace.
There have been so many other shootings that Isis did not attempt to take credit. Why this one?
Captain Steel
10-21-17, 11:17 PM
Yeah, the FBI is keeping things under wraps. They are working in reverse, trying to establish a time line where they can establish the very beginning of his preparation and possible contacts that led to the events of Oct 1.
The fact that they are keeping silent most likely indicates that they are tracking some one that can provide more detail but they don't want to spook, who ever it is.
I just have a feeling that the girlfriend knows more and see her as some kind of a courier or go between.
It makes sense that the shooter would use some one ( or perhaps was used himself ) to establish contact on foreign soil, where it would be harder to trace.
There have been so many other shootings that Isis did not attempt to take credit. Why this one?
I was looking for a particular article that addresses this - but had trouble finding that specific one (and don't remember who wrote it).
But to sum it up:
I was wrong about one thing - don't know if it was this thread or elsewhere, but I commented that ISIS will claim responsibility for any acts of violence against innocents. Apparently this was erroneous. It turns out ISIS is very serious about its credibility and therefore has not made claims haphazardly (except for one known recent one - the attack at a casino in the Philippines).
The reason ISIS is usually careful about being able to back up its claims is to remain credible to its members, supporters, funders, recruits and potential recruits - they desire to be seen as serious and credible (despite their insane atrocities which they claim are just a strict adherence to their religious tradition and the mandates of their ideology).
So the author claimed there could be a couple reasons for their claim to the Las Vegas attack:
1. It could be true, or 2. (which is kind of good news for us...) ISIS is getting sloppy!
They've suffered a lot of losses including within their propaganda / news wing. So, if this claim turns out to false it could indicate a severe crumbling of the ISIS infrastructure where discipline and lines of communication are breaking down, which would result in a loss of credibility on their part (which they do not want).
[QUOTE=Captain Steel;1806665]I was looking for a particular article that addresses this - but had trouble finding that specific one (and don't remember who wrote it).
But to sum it up:
I was wrong about one thing - don't know if it was this thread or elsewhere, but I commented that ISIS will claim responsibility for any acts of violence against innocents. Apparently this was erroneous. It turns out ISIS is very serious about its credibility and therefore has not made claims haphazardly (except for one known recent one - the attack at a casino in the Philippines).
QUOTE]
Didn't Abu Sayyaf get the direct credit for the casino in the Philippines? They are one of the outside terrorist groups that has connections with ISIS. Coincidence?
Just to clarify, the police in Manila refute Isis claim but refuse to link the lone shooter's name to Abu Sayyaf, who has become an increasing problem in Mindanao.
Abu Sayyaf are a Muslim Philippine terrorist group and known to favor Sunny Muslims, who are behind ISIS.
So now, you have 2 lone gun men shooting up people in two different casinos in 2 different countries, both having one common link: a Philippino.
I don't think you have to be a nuclear physicist to start connecting dots.
If the FBI is not all over this, I would be very surprised.
Of course, this has international ramifications, so they have to thread very carefully.
I also understand why Manila police is not outing the truth.
[QUOTE=Des;1806674] It turns out ISIS is very serious about its credibility and therefore has not made claims haphazardly /QUOTE]
Hey? Isis claim responsibility for anything, including a dog farting. It gives them the free global publicity they need and cant afford. You were not aware of this?
Captain Steel
10-21-17, 11:59 PM
[QUOTE=Des;1806674] It turns out ISIS is very serious about its credibility and therefore has not made claims haphazardly /QUOTE]
Hey? Isis claim responsibility for anything, including a dog farting. It gives them the free global publicity they need and cant afford. You were not aware of this?
That's what I used to think, but according to some journalists, ISIS making false claims is a relatively recent behavior possibly due to their dwindling ranks, but in the past they were careful about backing their claims:
“This is a group that has been relatively disciplined in only claiming attacks that they did themselves, or were carried out by people who were inspired by them,” Callimachi said.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/10/04/theres-no-evidence-linking-las-vegas-shooting-isis-why-did-terrorists-make-false-claim/731172001/
[QUOTE=Dani8;1806680]
That's what I used to think, but according to some journalists, ISIS making false claims is a relatively recent behavior possibly due to their dwindling ranks, but in the past they were careful about backing their claims:
“This is a group that has been relatively disciplined in only claiming attacks that they did themselves, or were carried out by people who were inspired by them,” Callimachi said.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/10/04/theres-no-evidence-linking-las-vegas-shooting-isis-why-did-terrorists-make-false-claim/731172001/
Hey how come my name is being associated with Dani8? The above mentioned response was to his quote, yet my name appears over the quote in your recent post.
That guy could only wish he was me but it would be near impossible for me to say the things he does.:D
One of you messed up the quotes, that's why the persons name whose post it is is outside of the quote box.
Captain Steel
10-22-17, 12:36 AM
[QUOTE=Captain Steel;1806688]
Hey how come my name is being associated with Dani8? The above mentioned response was to his quote, yet my name appears over the quote in your recent post.
That guy could only wish he was me but it would be near impossible for me to say the things he does.:D
Well, first... "he" is a she (Dani8 that is).
Second, a quote got messed up in posting (as Camo said). You can track back to where it occurred if you're up on such tech stuff.
Captain Steel
10-22-17, 12:37 AM
Oy! It keeps happening!
[QUOTE=Des;1806698]
Well, first... "he" is a she (Dani8 that is).
Second, a quote got messed up in posting (as Camo said). You can track back to where it occurred if you're up on such tech stuff.
What have I got myself into. I feel like I'm in Thailand. Now I feel bad. I would never be mean to a woman.
I do understand her thinking better now, as they do think on the left side of the brain.
[QUOTE=Captain Steel;1806714]
What have I got myself into. I feel like I'm in Thailand. Now I feel bad. I would never be mean to a woman.
I do understand her thinking better now, as they do think on the left side of the brain.
Captain Steel, I hope you are not Super Girl!:p
Stop quoting the posts with the messed up quote if you want that to stop. I mean you are posting right after each other there's not even a need to quote. You can start quoting again after one new post and it should work fine. I'm guessing one of you tried to delete part of the quote to address a specific part and you deleted something you weren't supposed to.
Thanks for illuminating, Camo!
Captain Steel, are you sure that you are not confusing Dani8 with Minnie Mouse Dani? I know that she is a girl but you are probably right a guy would not usually pick a chipmunk for an avatar.
If she is a girl, she is pretty aggressive for a girl. Now, I am dazed and confused.
Desaster.
You ought to know. You survived it!
Both Dani8 and Danii are female. And that's not a chypmunk it's a quokka. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quokka
Also what does "aggressive for a girl" mean?
I'm pretty aggressive for a girl. But I'm pretty fly, for a white guy.
Think "aggressive for a girl" is very 1950's, just wanted to know if i was laughing at the right thing.
Both Dani8 and Danii are female. And that's not a chypmunk it's a quokka. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quokka
Also what does "aggressive for a girl" mean?
If I need to define aggressive for you, you may not be the " goombah " I thought you were.
Define "goombah" while you're at it. I don't speak Tony Soprano.
The only thing I know for sure about all of this is that the almighty dollar is in play.
Define "goombah" while you're at it. I don't speak Tony Soprano.
Funny that, having an avatar of a character from Godfather movie.
Ok, I'll play Italian dictionary, paisan. Goombah means a senior of an Italian gang, somewhat like Camo. In your case: associate.
I am Italian from Bensonhurst.
Captain Steel
10-22-17, 02:24 AM
Captain Steel, I hope you are not Super Girl!:p
I am male, btw. And although I'm very in touch with my female chromosome, I have no ambiguity, confusion or regrets about my gender.
Plus I'll refer to this for others:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1775658#post1775658
Funny that, having an avatar of a character from Godfather movie.
What? He's from Behind The Mask. This sure looks like a Godfather character :laugh:
https://i.imgur.com/Uj1YO9Y.jpg
Remember that one time Michael went back to Sicily and he donned a mask and killed a whole village? :laugh:
That's clearly Killer Corleone!
Captain Steel
10-22-17, 02:30 AM
What? He's from Behind The Mask. This sure looks like a Godfather character :laugh:
https://i.imgur.com/Uj1YO9Y.jpg
Remember that one time Michael went back to Sicily and he donned a mask and killed a whole village? :laugh:
I thought that was young Vito's first Halloween in America! ;)
(What's funny is Citizen Rules still has no ideas who these references are about!)
Captain Steel, I hope you are not Super Girl!:p
I am male, btw. And although I'm very in touch with my female chromosome, I have no ambiguity, confusion or regrets about my gender.
Plus I'll refer to this for others:
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1775658#post1775658
Touche!:)
Michael Corleone in the foggy hills of Sicily:
https://i.imgur.com/yIbKTAp.jpg
What? He's from Behind The Mask. This sure looks like a Godfather character :laugh:
https://i.imgur.com/Uj1YO9Y.jpg
Remember that one time Michael went back to Sicily and he donned a mask and killed a whole village? :laugh:
My bad, it's been a while since I saw the movie. I was thinking of Don Caneo.
That's clearly Killer Corleone!
Are you a girl or a boy?
Think Don Cuneo gets the least screentime of any of the five family bosses.
He's mentioned more in the book, so is Stracci. Cuneo is the one shot through the door by Willie Cicci.
https://i.imgur.com/rtU8HK1.png
Are you a girl or a boy?
Neither. I'm a car.
Neither. I'm a car.
https://i.imgur.com/iOsQ3ow.jpg
Neither. I'm a car.
Ok, don't break your dainty little hands. Clap can be dangerous.
Your hostility is bonkers hilarious.
Your hostility is bonkers hilarious.
And your paranoia interprets my humor as hostile.
What we have here is a failure to communicate but I won't lose any sleep if you choose not to.
Captain Steel
10-23-17, 10:25 PM
Largest mass shooting in U.S. history (58 victims murdered, over 500 injured - many critically & permanently, alleged shooter dead on scene with no motive revealed by authorities):
Three and a half weeks later and the mainstream media has officially declared it "forgotten," "swept under the rug," "not worthy of mention," "forgettaboutit!"
Three and a half weeks later and the mainstream media has officially declared it "forgotten," "swept under the rug," "not worthy of mention," "forgettaboutit!"
I actually think for once that the MSM has no clue what to do with the story. They have no new information and have been shut out of the investigation.
I do hope they come up with answers both law enforcement and the families.
There is definitely something "not right" about all of this - and the minutiae that creates culpability in all of this is mind numbing.
Stirchley
10-25-17, 06:20 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5016979/Las-Vegas-shooter-s-brother-arrested-child-porn.html
Captain Steel
10-25-17, 07:28 PM
600 pieces. That's a lot!
I always wonder how some guys can be so stupid as to somehow get that stuff and KEEP it on their computer, knowing it is a major federal offense and a felony. Does anyone know how they get it since it is one thing that is actually illegal on the Net and thus can't simply be accessed and downloaded? Like if I wanted to buy heroin on the net - I won't just be able to find a site that let's me order heroin and order it with my credit card like buying something from Amazon.
It reminds me of those guys who'd show up on To Catch A Predator... I always wonder how anyone could be stupid enough to walk into such an obvious trap with such life-destroying consequences. Even if part of them thought there was a possibility that it was real, who would risk losing everything, have to register as a sexual predator for the rest of their life (going door to door telling people they're an attempted child molestor), lose their job, lose their family, and end up in prison for many years just on the off chance of scoring with a teenager?
Stirchley
10-25-17, 07:38 PM
600 pieces. That's a lot!
Nice family. Not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web
600 pieces. That's a lot!
I always wonder how some guys can be so stupid as to somehow get that stuff and KEEP it on their computer, knowing it is a major federal offense and a felony. Does anyone know how they get it since it is one thing that is actually illegal on the Net and thus can't simply be accessed and downloaded? Like if I wanted to buy heroin on the net - I won't just be able to find a site that let's me order heroin and order it with my credit card like buying something from Amazon.
It reminds me of those guys who'd show up on To Catch A Predator... I always wonder how anyone could be stupid enough to walk into such an obvious trap with such life-destroying consequences. Even if part of them thought there was a possibility that it was real, who would risk losing everything, have to register as a sexual predator for the rest of their life (going door to door telling people they're an attempted child molestor), lose their job, lose their family, and end up in prison for many years just on the off chance of scoring with a teenager?
Yeah, that's pretty stupid, but who said that child predators were smart?
The more conniving ones are much better organized and use the dark web, where they are not so easily traced.
People buy so much illegal stuff there by using bit coin, a currency that's not easily detectable.
The last few years, Interpol has been focusing a lot on the dark web, cracking codes etc.
Captain Steel
10-25-17, 08:04 PM
Nice family. Not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web
Yeah. It seems none of these brothers had a good childhood or a positive father-figure role model in their lives.
But it's difficult to connect any of this to the attack.
From what I understand, the family was very disconnected and Paddock's brothers hadn't had contact with each other in decades.
So motive remains a complete mystery at this point.
Captain Steel
10-25-17, 08:19 PM
Yeah, that's pretty stupid, but who said that child predators were smart?
The more conniving ones are much better organized and use the dark web, where they are not so easily traced.
People buy so much illegal stuff there by using bit coin, a currency that's not easily detectable.
The last few years, Interpol has been focusing a lot on the dark web, cracking codes etc.
But would predation make an otherwise fairly intelligent man stupid (in the case of the TV show)?
I ask because guys caught on that show included a Dr., a Rabbi, school teachers, several military men and college students (among your redneck country bumpkins), i.e. guys who know the ways of the world and who would know that this was a trap, or, as I said, even if their mind rationalized that against all odds there was some slim chance it wasn't a trap, would it be worth destroying your entire life over? It's simple risk assessment. If I see a dollar bill blowing around the fast lane of a four lane highway with a 65 mph speed limit - should I try to go get it? Having a free dollar would be nice, but is it worth the risk of being crippled or killed?
And what Dr., Rabbi, teacher, soldier or college student would not think it's a trap? They think teens wait for their parents to go away to get on the web and invite gross, fat, middle aged, complete strangers that they've never met who are obvious pervs based on their chats to come to their parents' home to have sex with them??? Like some lonely teen is going to go for ugly fat old men rather than just go out and find another teen? It's laughable that anyone (except for maybe a mentally challenged person, and they had a few of those) would even entertain that thought, no less show up to be arrested for a felony.
Yet they did! (That's what I don't get.)
What's your definition of trap?
Captain Steel
10-25-17, 09:01 PM
What's your definition of trap?
To Catch a Predator was a Sting operation.
It was very controversial in that the "victim" didn't exist and therefore no crime perpetrated against such could be committed within the scenario, yet most of the arrestees did hard time based entirely on their alleged intentions. Basically they were preventively sentenced based on their thoughts (very Minority Report kind of stuff).
(I actually made a thread about it to discuss...)
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=48603
Thanks. Makes sense to me described that Wat. I thought you may have been asking if they allow themselves to be baited by the money grubbers or task force agents
Not too bright, are they. Nor are the non addicts what always try to claim they were just curious. Filth.
But would predation make an otherwise fairly intelligent man stupid (in the case of the TV show)?
I ask because guys caught on that show included a Dr., a Rabbi, school teachers, several military men and college students (among your redneck country bumpkins), i.e. guys who know the ways of the world and who would know that this was a trap, or, as I said, even if their mind rationalized that against all odds there was some slim chance it wasn't a trap, would it be worth destroying your entire life over? It's simple risk assessment. If I see a dollar bill blowing around the fast lane of a four lane highway with a 65 mph speed limit - should I try to go get it? Having a free dollar would ...
And what Dr., Rabbi, teacher, soldier or college student would not think it's a trap? They think teens wait for their parents to go away to get on the web and invite gross, fat, middle aged, complete strangers that they've never met who are obvious pervs based on their chats to come to their parents' home to have sex with them??? Like some lonely teen is going to go for ugly fat old men rather than just go out and find another teen? It's laughable that anyone (except for maybe a mentally challenged person, and they had a few of those) would even entertain that thought, no less show up to be arrested for a felony.
Yet they did! (That's what I don't get.)
Just because they have good jobs and diplomas does not mean that they have common sense nor a high IQ.
The proof is in the pudding. Stupid is as stupid does!
FBI just confirmed that a hard drive was removed from Paddock's lap top found in shooter's hotel room. No one knows what happened to it.
They are about to release new information on Mandalay Bay security guard that was shot buy Paddock.
It's either going to be the Philippines or Guantanamo. Please don't say Mexico.
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