Las Vegas Attack 2017

[Des]

This just in. Jesus Campos crossed the border into Mexico by car ( San Yisidro ) , after shooting. Campos was not licensed to be a security guard by Nevada licensing. My guess is he had the missing hard drive. Now, it appears that the severity of his wound is questioned. Not as severe, if he had really been shot by an automatic rifle. Would not be able to dive himself to Mexico.

[Des]

From victim to accomplice? FBI better get their stuff together. Matter of fact, DOJ should investigate this. Something is definitely going on with the FBI. This has all the ingredients of a rouge element within agency.

[Des]

How the hell do you allow your key witness to leave the country?

[7thson]

None of this really makes sense and someone, or someones are/ have destroyed or hidden evidence. No idea where the security guard comes in and so much speculation is going around it dilutes the truth of what happened. I think this is on purpose, but I also think that one way of getting around the obstacle of getting all those guns in would be to have an inside guy i.e. security guard in the loop. Not saying this happened and not saying this Jesus guy did anything at all, but he is not saying everything he knows - whether he is being paid, or hiding something, or threatened I have no idea, but its so shady it boggles the mind.

[Captain Steel]

From victim to accomplice? FBI better get their stuff together. Matter of fact, DOJ should investigate this. Something is definitely going on with the FBI. This has all the ingredients of a rouge element within agency.

Interesting because there were stories (in online magazines and YouTube reports) about a week or so after the attack saying Campos was indicted as an accomplice and had been taken into custody. The stories were later denied or debunked (before his resurfacing on the Ellen show).

The "fact" that no one can find Campos' name on the MGM employee database or on a Security database in Las Vegas (which lists all people working as Security guards) has existed from the beginning.

[Des]

Interesting because there were stories (in online magazines and YouTube reports) about a week or so after the attack saying Campos was indicted as an accomplice and had been taken into custody. The stories were later denied or debunked (before his resurfacing on the Ellen show).

The "fact" that no one can find Campos' name on the MGM employee database or on a Security database in Las Vegas (which lists all people working as Security guards) has existed from the beginning.

Two things here that are very disturbing:
The fact that Campos was allowed to leave the country and go to Mexico, just a few days after the shooting. He was the principal material witness and a possible accomplice.
The fact that the hard drive was removed for Paddock's lap top, found at crime scene.
The hard drive has not been located.
Why did Campos go to Mexico. Is it to deliver the hard drive to persons unknown?
The removal of hard drive indicates that there was incriminating evidence there.
A possible contact and accomplice to shooting, that probably does not want identity revealed or wants it revealed on his own terms, probably as proof for some future attacks, demands or hostage negotiations.
The Lone Wolf theory gets slimmer by the minute.

[Captain Steel]

This morning I was surprised to see a short news blurb about Las Vegas on Fox.

They had a survivor who lost a friend at the concert speaking out and asking why there is no more information and why the authorities and media have gone silent.

Fox reiterated that the lack of information leaves a void open to conspiracy theories, but that the authorities say no conspiracy theories are true. And of course, they reported that the authorities warn, in regards to the truth, "We may never know."

What troubles me is the authorities still are in no way addressing so many things that don't fall under the "conspiracy umbrella" - they are things that, in and of themselves, are just accounts and simple questions that remain completely unaddressed with not even the slightest attempt at an explanation...


Like the contradictory timeline,
Newly revealed facts that cops were outside the hotel room after Campos was shot but before the shooting of the concert,
The Campos / Mexico / Injuries / Doctored photos / Timeline contradiction / Ellen fiasco,
The discrepancy questions regarding the hotel room numbers & occupancy (an Australian man claims he occupied the room next to Paddock's that had a window broken out of it for a gun stand),
The many police and dispatch recordings of multiple shooters at multiple locations before, during and after the massacre,
Where exactly is all the security camera and cell phone recordings?
Why are people claiming their cell phones found or confiscated at the scene were "scrubbed"?
The airport radar, unaccountable helicopter activity, and audio recordings of Air Traffic Controllers regarding shooters on the tarmac,
The gunfire audio analyses by professionals indicating multiple types of firearms being fired simultaneously,
The activity in and outside of the Hooters Hotel & Casino,
The various figures inadvertently filmed on tops of trailers at the concert,
The eye-witness testimony that casino employees were instructed not to reveal the scope of what happened at other hotels,
How or why was Paddock's home (a major crime scene of evidence) allowed to be broken into a week after the shooting, and was evidence tampered with or taken?
How did the authorities immediately conclude Paddock had no contacts when, 3 weeks after the shooting, they admit the hard drive to his computer was missing?
And the rising claims by eye witnesses that there were shooters at other hotels up to 4 miles away and an hour and a half after Paddock was allegedly dead.


These aren't "conspiracies" - they are eye-witness accounts. The witnesses aren't saying, "Oh, we have this complicated theory of what actually happened and who the conspirators were," they are simply giving their accounts of what they heard and saw.

So people who were there say, "We were being fired at from multiple directions with bullets still being fired at us even long after we ran; We were herded into oncoming gunfire with bullets still flying when we got a quarter mile away; There were shooters at other hotels that we ran to. We saw dead bodies on the floors of hotels, dozens of bodies being removed from hotels; We saw fronts of hotels blasted apart by gunfire with glass everywhere; We heard gunfire as we exited a show, were forced to flee and told by staff to take shelter - it was well after 11:00 pm (an hour after the concert massacre)" those aren't conspiracy theories - those are eye witness accounts.

Okay, let's give the authorities the benefit of the doubt that the conspiracies are not true - how does that in any way answer, explain or refute all these accounts, recordings, things caught on film, inconsistencies, questions, etc.? What's their explanation? Mass hysteria, fog of war, mis-identifications, lies by witnesses?

If so, they need to come out and address it, don't just say you KNOW Paddock acted alone, you don't know why and you're desperate that everyone else accept the idea that "We may never know." That's just too disturbingly obvious a non-answer in the face of so many accounts and questions that we know there are answers to.

[I. Rex]

So people who were there say, "We were being fired at from multiple directions with bullets still being fired at us even long after we ran; We were herded into oncoming gunfire with bullets still flying when we got a quarter mile away; There were shooters at other hotels that we ran to. We saw dead bodies on the floors of hotels, dozens of bodies being removed from hotels; We saw fronts of hotels blasted apart by gunfire with glass everywhere; We heard gunfire as we exited a show, were forced to flee and told by staff to take shelter - it was well after 11:00 pm (an hour after the concert massacre)" those aren't conspiracy theories - those are eye witness accounts.

No those are definitely conspiracy theories. Some understandable and others patently absurd. For sure investigators are going to need to release a full account of what happened to the best of their knowledge at some point. But remember it took months for that to happen in Columbine and Sandy Hook. Most of a year I think. Maybe longer. And those were simpler crime scenes. So Ill give them more time to figure this all out but I agree the public is going to need a reasonable explanation and the best second by second event sequence they can determine. And a motive would be nice. But that motive may not satisfy the conspiracy junkies if they can determine one at all.

[Powdered Water]

You really shouldn't watch Fox news. Just sayin. Most of that stuff you're talking about Steel are leads. You really think the conspiracy runs so deep that the police aren't running those things down? Pretty sure they already have. I bet they even still have press conferences that you could actually watch and get it from the detectives themselves. I've watched a few of them myself. They are dry and pretty boring. Its much more exciting to engage in conspiracy theories. Hence FOX news and their never ending BS.

I think there's a chance that we get to see some video from inside the casino... I think there's a better chance we'll see Trump's tax return first... maybe. But it's probably not gonna happen. Even if there were some kind of court order I doubt you'd see the real tapes. This was a massive blow for that casino and its gonna take some serious sh*t to get them to help out with the investigation. In a way, the conspiracy theory guys might be a little right. I think there's a pretty good chance that not just Campos was helping this guy. But not the way the theorists think. I think they helped him bring all that sh*t to his room because they always helped him bring sh*t to his room. He was a relative high roller and seemingly had the run of the place. But the hotel can't just come out and say that. So... conspiracy theory.

[Captain Steel]

No those are definitely conspiracy theories. Some understandable and others patently absurd. For sure investigators are going to need to release a full account of what happened to the best of their knowledge at some point. But remember it took months for that to happen in Columbine and Sandy Hook. Most of a year I think. Maybe longer. And those were simpler crime scenes. So Ill give them more time to figure this all out but I agree the public is going to need a reasonable explanation and the best second by second event sequence they can determine. And a motive would be nice. But that motive may not satisfy the conspiracy junkies if they can determine one at all.

How are eye-witness accounts of personal experiences conspiracy theories?
(Sure, those accounts can be USED to support various conspiracy theories, but in and of themselves are simply claims as to what certain individuals say they heard & saw.)

Now if an eyewitness said, "I got shot at by a guy on the ground wearing a black mask, but dressed as a cop - therefore I know they were assassins posing as cops who were all in league with ISIS, out to murder a Saudi Prince in a gun-running sting operation with the FBI who set Paddock up as a patsy and it was all organized by Antifa for the purpose of a leftist gun grab that would lead to an ultimate overthrow of the government by anarchists!" THAT would be a conspiracy theory.

But as I said, eyewitnesses who were there are giving their accounts of what they experienced first hand - and some of those accounts include the things I outlined.

So those are not conspiracy theories (unless, of course, you think those witnesses are "crisis actors" paid to give false accounts to further some agenda)... but, of course, THAT would be a conspiracy theory.

[I. Rex]

How are eye-witness accounts of personal experiences conspiracy theories?
(Sure, those accounts can be USED to support various conspiracy theories, but in and of themselves are simply claims as to what certain individuals say they heard & saw.)

Ok how about they are mistaken accounts (and yes Im sure they are ALREADY being used to promote conspiracy theories all over the deep web). Most are easily explained (yes they were taking injured and dying people to nearby hotels to get them medical attention and out of the line of fire. Doesnt mean they were shot there). And a few wacky and/or exaggerations ("fronts of hotels blasted apart by gunfire"). Most of those "eyewitness" statements can be explained away as human perception errors during a chaotic panic. I personally spoke to a couple myself who were at the concert and they were absolutely sure that the shooter was on the grounds of the concert itself maybe feet away not in some building a quarter mile away. They thought this because they couldnt get a fix on where the shots were coming from in all the bedlam and panic and they simply assumed they were close by based on the sound. Once they left the location and got home are were safe and had time to look at video footage and hear interviews from other people it became clear to them that the shooter was not on the grounds like they had first assumed.

[Captain Steel]

You really shouldn't watch Fox news. Just sayin. Most of that stuff you're talking about Steel are leads. You really think the conspiracy runs so deep that the police aren't running those things down? Pretty sure they already have. I bet they even still have press conferences that you could actually watch and get it from the detectives themselves. I've watched a few of them myself. They are dry and pretty boring. Its much more exciting to engage in conspiracy theories. Hence FOX news and their never ending BS.

I think there's a chance that we get to see some video from inside the casino... I think there's a better chance we'll see Trump's tax return first... maybe. But it's probably not gonna happen. Even if there were some kind of court order I doubt you'd see the real tapes. This was a massive blow for that casino and its gonna take some serious sh*t to get them to help out with the investigation. In a way, the conspiracy theory guys might be a little right. I think there's a pretty good chance that not just Campos was helping this guy. But not the way the theorists think. I think they helped him bring all that sh*t to his room because they always helped him bring sh*t to his room. He was a relative high roller and seemingly had the run of the place. But the hotel can't just come out and say that. So... conspiracy theory.

It's fine to have issues with Fox. I only mentioned it because that's the station the story was on (as you may know, other networks pretty much went silent on even mentions of "the single largest shooting massacre in U.S. history" a month after it occurred). Fox is the only network I know of that has continued to even mention it.

And the report was all of a minute long - as I said: a survivor asking why there isn't more info after 7 weeks in the face of so many unaddressed questions, the reporter saying the authorities state they are still going through mountains of evidence, reviewing security footage and that all conspiracy theories are false. But that they reiterate that "we may never know."

(I still have to question why restating that over and over to the public is SO important - sure, with some cases we will never know, that's commonly understood... but to keep saying again and again, after starting off saying it from almost day one, while at the same time they claim they are digging through mountains of evidence? Sounds like either some very pessimistic thinking or some sort of agenda - and if it's just pessimism or pragmatism, why keep stating it over and over to the public like a mantra? Just keep it to yourself. Very strange.)

As far as hotels or authorities just coming out and saying... that's what I'm seeking.

So many things I listed could be addressed right now (even if the answer is "we don't know yet" that's still better than nothing - and simple things like the room numbers, the bullet holes in the hotel room doors, where was Paddock last filmed on a security camera? Who were the hotel staff that had contact with Paddock and what did they observe? What were the cops who were responding to the Campos shooting outside the room doing while Paddock was shooting at the crowd? Was Hooters simply an ambulance staging area? What was up with the airport radar and reports of shooters by Air Traffic Controllers? Why did they jump to the immediate conclusion that Paddock had no contacts if they couldn't find his hard drive? Did witnesses cell phones get scrubbed? etc., etc. All these things had answers early on and could easily be addressed.)

[Captain Steel]

Ok how about they are mistaken accounts (and yes Im sure they are ALREADY being used to promote conspiracy theories all over the deep web). Most are easily explained (yes they were taking injured and dying people to nearby hotels to get them medical attention and out of the line of fire. Doesnt mean they were shot there). And a few wacky and/or exaggerations ("fronts of hotels blasted apart by gunfire"). Most of those "eyewitness" statements can be explained away as human perception errors during a chaotic panic. I personally spoke to a couple myself who were at the concert and they were absolutely sure that the shooter was on the grounds of the concert itself maybe feet away not in some building a quarter mile away. They thought this because they couldnt get a fix on where the shots were coming from in all the bedlam and panic and they simply assumed they were close by based on the sound. Once they left the location and got home are were safe and had time to look at video footage and hear interviews from other people it became clear to them that the shooter was not on the grounds like they had first assumed.

Okay. Good.
Mistaken accounts: echoes, ricochets, shrapnel, fleeing victims running onto the airport tarmac, nearby hotels filling up with the bleeding and injured as they sought refuge and medical aid, panicked rumors spreading like wildfire, unrelated events being interpreted as connected, misperception. Those are some reasonable explanations for some things.

Now, why don't the authorities step up to the mic and offer them as explanations to specific claims? Go down the list of claims and explain how they were misperceptions. Offer an updated timeline SO FAR including all the new elements (like cops outside Paddock's room before the massacre and what they were doing) with the understanding that it could change again with new evidence.

SAY whether they identified who the people were filmed on top of the trailers at the concert or that they still don't know who they were... but to just ignore it all and say nothing as if none of this stuff even exists?

That's what the survivor lady on the news report was frustrated about - how they are acting as if these questions aren't still on the table and are treating this like it never even happened.

[Powdered Water]

But that's what we do here. Get in a twist all you like, but these shootings are so common place now that the media has no choice but to go silent. I'd be willing to place a small wager that there's so little coverage now simply because most of the media has already moved on to the next several horrible things that have happened in this country since the shooting. Seriously. Who's left to even cover this? Its not a story anymore because we've made it okay in this country to just "move on" and get to the next thing.

Do you really need a person of law enforcement to come out publicly and say: "We think this guy was batsh*t nuts, but don't really Know cuz he hid his hd sooo.... we don't know sh*t." Is that really gonna help the victims?

[Captain Steel]

But that's what we do here. Get in a twist all you like, but these shootings are so common place now that the media has no choice but to go silent. I'd be willing to place a small wager that there's so little coverage now simply because most of the media has already moved on to the next several horrible things that have happened in this country since the shooting. Seriously. Who's left to even cover this? Its not a story anymore because we've made it okay in this country to just "move on" and get to the next thing.

Do you really need a person of law enforcement to come out publicly and say: "We think this guy was batsh*t nuts, but don't really Know cuz he hid his hd sooo.... we don't know sh*t." Is that really gonna help the victims?

I'm not in a twist. :) We're having some good conversation here.

If your point about the media is true, why can't they just go silent over Trump for an hour?
Can't they just move on (or at least give it a small rest) from that crap? How about just one day without "Russian collusion"? Yet, MSNBC and CNN are wall to wall with this, 24/7. Geez, it's like non-stop, repeating the same stuff over and over for months on end!

So, my point is, the media focuses on what it wants to focus on (to the point of ad infinitum in some cases)! But for some reason, they've chosen not to focus on the largest shooting massacre in American history.


What we need from law enforcement is not to go silent on such a major event that cost so many lives and has so many unaddressed questions surrounding it (including many about future public safety).

The point's been made that we need this because the silence leaves a void that creates a sense of vulnerability, distrust and skepticism for those entrusted to protect us. And that void only gets filled with misperceptions and conspiracy theories. The authorities appear so concerned with conspiracies theories that they publicly decry them whenever they DO speak, yet they won't fill in a single one of those many very easily answerable questions or gaps (that make up the aforementioned void) that would keep conspiracies from filling those spots.

[Powdered Water]

Well, if by definition anything that Trump says is news. Then the media has to talk about it. I mean, I'm with ya. I'd love a break. But is he capable of taking a break?

I mean, I'd like to think that there's a silent majority of folks in this country that would love to talk gun control or something more related to this shooting. But we literally are told we can't talk about it from almost every news source out there. How do we fight that, exactly?

[Captain Steel]

Well, if by definition anything that Trump says is news. Then the media has to talk about it. I mean, I'm with ya. I'd love a break. But is he capable of taking a break?

I mean, I'd like to think that there's a silent majority of folks in this country that would love to talk gun control or something more related to this shooting. But we literally are told we can't talk about it from almost every news source out there. How do we fight that, exactly?

I don't know. But I feel we found some common ground in agreeing that the media (from an overall perspective) is often somewhat skewed. :)

[Powdered Water]

I don't know. But I feel we found some common ground in agreeing that the media (from an overall perspective) is often somewhat skewed. :)

Ha, yeah, well that's not really a stretch tho is it? :laugh: Are you trying to unplug from the machine?

As far as some of your other points go. Growing up reading from great crime authors and yes, watching shows like CSI, you pick up one or two things. One thing is... these types of crime scenes can never be processed properly so there will be a large degree of human error all over the place. And two, the time it really takes to do this stuff is a lot longer than they make it out in TV, as I'm sure you know. It could take months just collecting statements. Much less categorizing them and working with them. Its a tedious process.

So, perhaps your point about them just coming out and telling us that they may never even come close to putting all these pieces together is valid. Maybe some of us could handle that. Maybe not.

What if tomorrow they come out and say this story is as good as its gonna get. I've already accepted that this was the work of one man. I believe he was a sad lonely depressed individual that snapped under the weight of his own mental instability and had the means and the guns to carry out a horrible act of violence like no other we've seen to date. That's truly a horrible thing, but I believe it.

If there is a real conspiracy of some sort involved with this on top of it? Wow, then whoever came up with that idea may be worse than Hitler.

[Citizen Rules]

... I'd be willing to place a small wager that there's so little coverage now simply because most of the media has already moved on to the next several horrible things that have happened in this country since the shooting.... I can only speak for myself: But I've nearly forgotten about the Vegas shooting. It made an impact on me at the time, but now I've nearly forgotten about it.

I'd venture to guess that the majority of Americans aren't actively thinking about it or seeking news information. There forth the media might seem to be ignoring it, when in reality there's not enough interest in the news story to warrant coverage. Remember today's news is largely for profit and most of us have short attention spans.

And that explains why the Vegas shooting is not being covered.

[Captain Steel]

Here's a huge problem I have with the relative silence. Powdered Water brought up crime scene investigations and such...

With crime scenes, especially unsolved ones, there's a lot to consider and there are many good reasons to keep information under wraps until such time as arrests can be made and a case may be taken to court: first, you don't want to tip-off those involved, then there's allegations, lawsuits, potential counter lawsuits for false allegations or arrests, accomplices, crime scene contamination, witness protection, witness statements, admissible evidence, police involvement, who will represent the prosecution, what the defense for the accused is going to use in court, discovery, disclosure, potential jury pool contamination due to leaked information or rumors, and on and on - much of it relating to proving the case against the accused, the prosecution of the case, avoiding counter suits, and the ultimate court judgement.

But this is different. The authorities basically declared the case solved on day 1 as far as who was responsible and he can't be tried because he's dead!

They declared Paddock acted alone and had no contacts, affiliations, causes or accomplices - therefore there are no accusations of others to consider, no rights of "people of interest" left to worry about, no witnesses to protect, no groups to involve over the influence they had on the accused, etc. This case was wrapped as far as "Who dunnit" and how on day one.

So that leads me to really question the silence regarding the investigation. According to the FBI, they now only need to look at the particulars as to "why" Paddock committed this crime (which they keep telling us we may never know), but the "who" is already solved.

There are no witnesses to worry about protecting from retaliation, there are no other parties to worry about, there are no jury pools to worry about being contaminated, there's no case or lawyers to worry about in regards to the crime because the ONLY person involved in committing it is accounted for and dead.

This, of course, is all according to the authorities account of what happened and who was responsible.

So then why the big lack of disclosure toward many of the questions and details I outlined and the many more I didn't? What is the NEED to be silent over so many of the unaddressed issues? What do they need to "protect" by remaining silent if the only person responsible is dead? Do you see what I'm saying?

Staying mum might be more "normal" for cases where you have alleged suspects being defended by lawyers that will be making a plea in a court of law involving examination of evidence and witnesses to determine guilt, but this is different. And it's why we usually get a ton of information on lone killers who are killed during their rampage along with many of the circumstances surrounding it - there's no NEED to be silent when the ONLY person responsible is dead.

The silence here doesn't make sense.

[Powdered Water]

I get what your saying but I feel your post in some ways answers your own questions. Perhaps all this silence you speak of may be misinterpreted. Is there even an active investigation going anymore? It seems you want some sort of public statement about this. Have you tried the LVPD website? Send them an email. You'd probably get a response.

We may have had the last public statement we're gonna get over a month ago.

[Captain Steel]

I get what your saying but I feel your post in some ways answers your own questions. Perhaps all this silence you speak of may be misinterpreted. Is there even an active investigation going anymore? It seems you want some sort of public statement about this. Have you tried the LVPD website? Send them an email. You'd probably get a response.

We may have had the last public statement we're gonna get over a month ago.

Investigation: going by the report I heard on the news this morning, they said the authorities state that they are still combing through tons of security footage and evidence. So, that sounds like there's an ongoing investigation.

And the last public statement over a month ago sounds like a sad possibility, especially in the face of all the unaddressed issues I stated previously. As I said, so many of these things we know have been answered by now and would have no bearing on guilt, innocence or rights of one dead alleged mass-murderer who will most assuredly never have a day in court (if the FBI's account is accurate), so what are they hiding or who are they protecting by withholding such information?

And regarding contacting the authorities for info: some of those eye-witnesses who were in Las Vegas that night and came under fire, who claim multiple shooters or shootings at other areas have said that when they call they are hung up on, refused to be spoken to or are never given a call back. Isn't that a bit odd when the authorities posted a helpline for people who have information to call into?

[Powdered Water]

Serious question and I'm not changing the subject. Why do you think "these people" are capable of hiding something from us? Have you seen our government function lately?

Now to change the topic just a bit... When was the last update from the really horrible shooting from like a week later at that church? I don't even know that guy's name. Do you without googling it? Is there some kind of conspiracy there too? They lost quite a few people. If I were them I'd be pissed that my town wasn't getting more coverage. Mass shooter's are really gonna have to get their numbers up from now on if they even wanna make the news in the future.

To bring me back to my original thought: Don't watch FOX or any of those news channels for that matter. Especially if its "news agencies" like that one, that are trying to tell you that people are being hung up on at the police station. If the police were trying to cover something up, wouldn't it raise a few eyebrows if the helpline that's dedicated to this thing just hangs up on people? I'm no detective but that would smell a bit off, wouldn't it?

[Des]

There is no doubt that both the FBI and the media are keeping a tight lid on this.
Fox is the only one still asking questions, CNN and others, not a peep.
There is probably also some behind the scenes influence from Mandalay Bay, against whom more and more law suits are being filed by both dead victim's families and live survivors.
The only technicality that keeps this from being a class action law suit is the different circumstances of the victims.

[Captain Steel]

Serious question and I'm not changing the subject. Why do you think "these people" are capable of hiding something from us? Have you seen our government function lately?

Now to change the topic just a bit... When was the last update from the really horrible shooting from like a week later at that church? I don't even know that guy's name. Do you without googling it? Is there some kind of conspiracy there too? They lost quite a few people. If I were them I'd be pissed that my town wasn't getting more coverage. Mass shooter's are really gonna have to get their numbers up from now on if they even wanna make the news in the future.

To bring me back to my original thought: Don't watch FOX or any of those news channels for that matter. Especially if its "news agencies" like that one, that are trying to tell you that people are being hung up on at the police station. If the police were trying to cover something up, wouldn't it raise a few eyebrows if the helpline that's dedicated to this thing just hangs up on people? I'm no detective but that would smell a bit off, wouldn't it?

To address one of your points here, PW (sorry, all of this typing is exhausting!... I know, I'm choosing to do it... but I'm Internet addicted!) with the other recent massacres / attacks (the Texas shooting, the NYC vehicular terrorist attack) some pertinent things are different:

These were up close, one on one attacks (not a hidden sniper attack as in LV). Thus, there are still plenty of living witnesses who saw the killer first hand carry out the attack (no one in LV saw anything in regards to the shooter, except for maybe Campos and the two cops who arrived in response to what authorities claim was the shooting at Campos before the massacre).

And in these recent attacks (sure, conspiracy theorists like to call everything a "false flag") there aren't hundreds of unanswered questions, discrepancies, counterclaims to the official reports, unanswered money trials and weapons records, burgled crime scenes, eight different conflicting timelines, human figures caught running across trailer tops in cell phone videos, audio records of gunfire followed by echoes... then just echoes with no preceding gunfire (!!!), claims by ISIS, appearances on ELLEN (!!!) - you don't have people in Texas saying there were simultaneously shootings at up to 10 different churches in the area over an hour later and such.

And (man I do go on...) Paddock doesn't fit any profile we have in these other cases: in Texas a red flag poster boy who never should have been able to get a gun if laws had been correctly applied, who was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force, was a spouse, child and animal abuser... an all around psycho with a record of violence. And in NYC, another ISIS inspired lone wolf carrying out the edicts of his religion of peace against the infidel using what has globally become a very standard style of attack.

[Powdered Water]

You keep saying hundreds of unanswered questions, but most of what your talking about is just people talking on youtube. Those people would be better served to actually contact the police if they have information. Des touched on something I alluded to earlier. The only way we will ever see footage from the Madalay Bay will be after a lengthy trial or court order of some kind. You want a conspiracy? Why doesn't our POTUS sign an executive order telling Mandalay Bay to turn over their video?

[Captain Steel]

You keep saying hundreds of unanswered questions, but most of what your talking about is just people talking on youtube. Those people would be better served to actually contact the police if they have information. Des touched on something I alluded to earlier. The only way we will ever see footage from the Madalay Bay will be after a lengthy trial or court order of some kind. You want a conspiracy? Why doesn't our POTUS sign an executive order telling Mandalay Bay to turn over their video?

Why not indeed?
Could it be he's in bed with the Saudis who own the top five floors of the hotel?

It's fine to have or listen to conspiracy theories, but I'm with the lady on the news report - (to the authorities) you've had 7 weeks now, make with some info.

[Stirchley]

The power of a photo. Air Force One leaving Las Vegas.

38352

[Powdered Water]

It's fine to have or listen to conspiracy theories, but I'm with the lady on the news report - (to the authorities) you've had 7 weeks now, make with some info.

Not sure if this will answer any of your questions Cap. I was talking to some friends that basically said the same things you were saying. The New York Times put out this video. I'm shocked they were able to get it without a major lawsuit but maybe someone at the hotel just thought it was the right thing to do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZRgVX8SYX4

[Powdered Water]

Las Vegas Sheriff Joe Lombardo discusses the final report on the 2017 mass shooting




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0pypmb9yqg


So I guess if you want to do something terrible just make sure you destroy your computer and cell phone. They have absolutely no idea why he did this thing.

[Citizen Rules]

...They have absolutely no idea why he did this thing. Because he was a nut case.

[Swan]

Because he was a nut case.

That is not really a worthwhile reason, even if it's true.

[Citizen Rules]

That is not really a worthwhile reason, even if it's true.Swan, you misunderstood the meaning of my post.
Nut case, as I was using it in that sentence, is a figure of speech for someone who comments a heinous crime or does something completely over the top.

Example Hitler was sure a nut case...Or it can also be used to describe Donald Trump, as in Trump is sure a nut case...It does not mean someone with actual clinical mental issues and that's not what I was trying to imply.

[Chypmunk]

I thought it was referring to how he kept pecan through the curtains.

[Swan]

Swan, you misunderstood the meaning of my post.
Nut case, as I was using it in that sentence, is a figure of speech for someone who comments a heinous crime or does something completely over the top.

Example Hitler was sure a nut case...Or it can also be used to describe Donald Trump, as in Trump is sure a nut case...It does not mean someone with actual clinical mental issues and that's not what I was trying to imply.

Of course, didn't take it that way either. :) I know you were probably just making an off-hand remark, but all I meant was if it was motivated by something political, religious or otherwise, surely we'd want to know that?

[Captain Steel]

It was Russian collusion.

[Citizen Rules]

Of course, didn't take it that way either. :) I know you were probably just making an off-hand remark, but all I meant was if it was motivated by something political, religious or otherwise, surely we'd want to know that? Oh OK, thanks Swan:) for explaining. I see what you're saying...so to answer:

I don't believe he had a motive other than to kill a bunch of people. I was joking about Powered Water's post that we would never find out the motive, as I don't believe in most conspiracy theories, so I don't think he had a real motive.

[Powdered Water]

Oh OK, thanks Swan:) for explaining. I see what you're saying...so to answer:

I don't believe he had a motive other than to kill a bunch of people. I was joking about Powered Water's post that we would never find out the motive, as I don't believe in most conspiracy theories, so I don't think he had a real motive.


Only problem with your theory is the fact the Paddock hid or destroyed his hard drives and his phone. That is not the action of someone who has no motive whatsoever. Doesn't even strike me as crazy in the least. No, it's too easy to just chalk it up to him being crazy.

[Captain Steel]

One year anniversary of the single largest, most covered up, most quickly forgotten shooting massacre in the United States.

[Powdered Water]

One year anniversary of the single largest, most covered up, most quickly forgotten shooting massacre in the United States.


Most covered up? Says who? You? What do you think happened exactly and why is it so hard for you to except what the police have already laid out many, many times? And I doubt very much the victims and their families or the people of Las Vegas have "forgotten" the shooting. Enlighten me. I just don't get your post or what you're trying to stir up. I'm sure you're going to say you're not stirring up anything and if that's the case then why continuously take shots at law enforcement? Because that's who you seem to think is covering this up.



Let me ask you something. You ever worked on something, anything, for a long time and then after many many hours of work you had to scrap the whole thing and start over? Only in this case there is no "starting over" because they got the guy. They just don't know why he did it. How is that a cover up and why do you think its fine to sh*t all over a whole police force that I can only assume logged a metric ton of hours trying to piece some answers for the families together?



Sorry if that's harsh but I really don't get it.

[Captain Steel]

Most covered up? Says who? You? What do you think happened exactly and why is it so hard for you to except what the police have already laid out many, many times? And I doubt very much the victims and their families or the people of Las Vegas have "forgotten" the shooting. Enlighten me. I just don't get your post or what you're trying to stir up. I'm sure you're going to say you're not stirring up anything and if that's the case then why continuously take shots at law enforcement? Because that's who you seem to think is covering this up.



Let me ask you something. You ever worked on something, anything, for a long time and then after many many hours of work you had to scrap the whole thing and start over? Only in this case there is no "starting over" because they got the guy. They just don't know why he did it. How is that a cover up and why do you think its fine to sh*t all over a whole police force that I can only assume logged a metric ton of hours trying to piece some answers for the families together?



Sorry if that's harsh but I really don't get it.

There are a zillion very basic questions (many outlined on this thread) that were NEVER answered - and they're ones that could be answered by people who are alive and well, by police or by the FBI.

It seems like they just waited until people got tired of asking questions - then it was just "case closed" and forget about it. The level and speed at which it was forgotten almost seems like mass hypnosis.

Here's a quick question from the zillion: did all the people at the concert who had their cell phones confiscated ever get them back? And of those who had already stated they got their cell phone back with all the info on it scrubbed (such as videos) were they ever given any compensation or an explanation why their phone was scrubbed?

[Yoda]

"There are questions we don't have answers to" is not a good basis for a conspiracy charge, because it's really easy to ask questions--even good ones--that are hard to answer. It also carries with it the strange assumption that people not part of the investigation can and should have access to all those answers.

Example, your cell phone question. It's an actual question, right? You don't know if they did or not. So why would the mere asking be evidence? Only an answer, and an answer of "no," might be.

[Captain Steel]

"There are questions we don't have answers to" is not a good basis for a conspiracy charge, because it's really easy to ask questions--even good ones--that are hard to answer. It also carries with it the strange assumption that people not part of the investigation can and should have access to all those answers.

Example, your cell phone question. It's an actual question, right? You don't know if they did or not. So why would the mere asking be evidence? Only an answer, and an answer of "no," might be.

There are questions that we know have answers. Such as the cops later identified as being in the hotel as the shooting was occurring & near the room - yet absolutely no info on who they were, what they did, etc.

As to the cell phones, before most info on this case went silent, the claims were that many people on the scene (and there were 20,000) at the concert has their phones confiscated by law enforcement and never got them back. Couldn't there just be an update on that claim as to if they got them back, or what evidence was derived from them, if any?

And why were people who did get their phones back find them scrubbed of all information?

And if these are misconceptions that were falsely reported by eye-witnesses and the media, then how about some updates that clear them up?

These are simple questions among so many other simple ones that have answers. They're not ideological questions of mystery like, "What was the shooter's motivation?" but rather they are concrete questions that someone living knows the answers to.

[Yoda]

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have updates, or that the questions don't matter, or that some of them are not strange. I'm pointing out that simply listing questions we don't have answers to is a really flimsy way to try to posit conspiracies. This is exactly how conspiracies thrive: they fill the vacuum of ignorance with speculation. They also thrive on conflicting reports, even though we literally always have those after any event, let alone a traumatic/dramatic one.

In a nutshell, conspiracies should be based on things we do know, not things we don't, since it's pretty easy to not know things and then just supply (or imply) our own answers. It's ridiculously easy to make stuff sound suspicious if you invert the burden of proof and require answers to rule out a conspiracy, as opposed to requiring strong evidence to believe it in the first place.