Sooo...I'm Transgender!!

[John McClane]

Hey Mofos,

I figure it's time I bring you all into the fold: I identify as transgender. It was about a year and a half ago that I finally admitted it to myself, and it wasn't until now that I finally became comfortable with telling people.

I'm an open book so—if you want—feel free to ask any question. I will keep you all informed on my transition in this thread.

Cheers!!

[Mr Minio]

Hey MoFos

I figure it's time I bring you all into the fold: I identify as heterosexual male. It was about twenty and a half ago that I finally admitted it to myself, and it wasn't until now that I finally became comfortable with telling people.

I'm an open book so—if you want—feel free to ask any question.

Cheers!

[Captain Steel]

Hi John!
Question: if you "identify" as transgender does that mean you do not identify as either male or female?

[Swan]

Thanks for sharing, Kendra. :)

[Miss Vicky]

Hi John!
Question: if you "identify" as transgender does that mean you do not identify as either male or female?

I'm pretty sure that would be agender not transgender.

[Captain Steel]

I'm pretty sure that would be agender not transgender.

I would think someone would only "identify" as male or female (since those are the two definitive genders on the opposite ends of the spectrum and for which we have established biological and social roles). But if someone identifies as "transgender" it sounds like they identify as neither sex, but as something in between.

This is just a terminology question for clarity.

[Citizen Rules]

Hey Mofos,

I figure it's time I bring you all into the fold: I identify as transgender. It was about a year and a half ago that I finally admitted it to myself, and it wasn't until now that I finally became comfortable with telling people.

I'm an open book so—if you want—feel free to ask any question. I will keep you all informed on my transition in this thread.

Cheers!! I only have one thing to say....


I wish you a happy life:) It can't be easy for you, hopefully your family and friends are supportive.

[Saunch]

Hey Mofos,

I figure it's time I bring you all into the fold: I identify as transgender. It was about a year and a half ago that I finally admitted it to myself, and it wasn't until now that I finally became comfortable with telling people.

I'm an open book so—if you want—feel free to ask any question. I will keep you all informed on my transition in this thread.

Cheers!!

Be yourself. It does take bravery to do so, so be strong as well.

[rauldc14]

To Minio,

You like girls then?

[Yoda]

Thank you for sharing. Hope you're doing okay.

Have to ask, though: can I still call you MattJohn? Can I just append another name onto that? :D

[TheUsualSuspect]

I for one would love to see PICS of your transition. If you would be so inclined of course.

Congrats on opening up to us. I can only speak for myself, but you have my support.

Have you told family members? How have your friends/family taken it?

[John McClane]

Hi John!
Question: if you "identify" as transgender does that mean you do not identify as either male or female?
I would think someone would only "identify" as male or female (since those are the two definitive genders on the opposite ends of the spectrum and for which we have established biological and social roles for). But if someone identifies as "transgender" it sounds like they identify as neither sex, but as something in between.

This is just a terminology question for clarity.Definitely a valid question. I fluctuate between masculine and feminine at times, but I definitely feel more feminine. So when I say I am transgender I mean that how I feel doesn't match my physical traits and how I am perceived in the world.

I for one would love to see PICS of your transition. If you would be so inclined of course.

Congrats on opening up to us. I can only speak for myself, but you have my support.

Have you told family members? How have your friends/family taken it?I will be posting pictures at some point. I haven't started hormones yet, so I still look like good ole MattJohn.

And yes, Yoda, you can still call me MattJohn. :laugh:

[Gideon58]

Welcome to the site...how you identify yourself is pretty much a non-issue to me, the only thing I care about is whether or not you like musicals.

[Yoda]

Welcome to the site
We now have definitive proof that MattJohn doesn't come around here enough any more.

the only thing I care about is whether or not you like musicals.
"I'm transgender."
"k."
"La La Land was overrated."
"FREAK."

[Miss Vicky]

Welcome to the site...how you identify yourself is pretty much a non-issue to me, the only thing I care about is whether or not you like musicals.

JohnMcClane's been here for years. Just usually in the shoutbox instead of on the forum.

BTW, McClane, should we use female pronouns for you now or stay with the male ones?

[Movie Max]

Looking forward to seeing your avatars morph, along with the hormones.:D

[Mr Minio]

To Minio,

You like girls then? Yes. I like girls. Girls and Swan.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Welcome to the site...how you identify yourself is pretty much a non-issue to me, the only thing I care about is whether or not you like musicals.

McClane has been here longer than me!!!!

[The Gunslinger45]

Be you McClane.

[Citizen Rules]

Welcome to the site...how you identify yourself is pretty much a non-issue to me, the only thing I care about is whether or not you like musicals. I love that!:)...and I love musicals!:p

[mark f]

Hey, Matt, I hope you're doing well. Didn't you first bring this up in the shoutbox?

[SeeingisBelieving]

Hey Mofos,

I figure it's time I bring you all into the fold: I identify as transgender. It was about a year and a half ago that I finally admitted it to myself, and it wasn't until now that I finally became comfortable with telling people.

I'm an open book so—if you want—feel free to ask any question. I will keep you all informed on my transition in this thread.

Cheers!!

I saw a bit of Dressed to Kill the other day which was very thought-provoking. Michael Caine's character is watching an interview with a transgender woman who is being asked about the experience of being a man and having had children in a heterosexual relationship. The woman answers something like "I've always been for heterosexual relationships" and it threw me a little bit and brought up more questions than it answered, particularly about her sexuality and how smooth the transition seemed for her.

[TONGO]

Please go thru years of therapy before deciding to get your ....yknow, cut off. All kidding aside there are plenty of stories how people had a full sex change operation, then years later were of a completely different mindset, and then become suicidally depressed.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-h2N_OQ_mYkI/URRL5EFPKFI/AAAAAAAAElM/ioTXQ8EUJDM/s1600/a-good-day-to-die-hard-bruce-willis-e1349659334856.jpeg

[John McClane]

Hey, Matt, I hope you're doing well. Didn't you first bring this up in the shoutbox?Maybe. Probably. Most likely.

I got my ears pierced earlier tonight.

https://s30.postimg.org/95k5pf3rl/IMG_7134.jpg

@Miss Vicky: Feel free to make that decision yourself: I won't mind either way.

[Movie Max]

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=28606&stc=1&d=1485312195

[Captain Steel]

Please go thru years of therapy before deciding to get your ....yknow, cut off. All kidding aside there are plenty of stories how people had a full sex change operation, then years later were of a completely different mindset, and then become suicidally depressed.


As far as cutting things off... I have to side with this doctor's professional advice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocEouB1gi14

This got me thinking about my own "pennis" and I decided I'm just going to keep on it!

[Captain Steel]

Maybe. Probably. Most likely.

I got my ears pierced earlier tonight.



John - nice to see you got BOTH ears pieced... at least we know you're not gay!
:p

[jiraffejustin]

Called it.


joke

[ShopkeeperTriumph]

I don't know many people on here yet, but thanks for being the true you, my friend. I hope your transition is brought with acceptance, and kindness from everyone. Congratulations. :)

[Swan]

I don't know many people on here yet, but thanks for being the true you, my friend. I hope your transition is brought with acceptance, and kindness from everyone. Congratulations. :)

Yeah I'm glad everyone is being cool so far. :up:

[jiraffejustin]

Hey MoFos

I figure it's time I bring you all into the fold: I identify as heterosexual male. It was about twenty and a half ago that I finally admitted it to myself, and it wasn't until now that I finally became comfortable with telling people.

I'm an open book so—if you want—feel free to ask any question.

Cheers!

I hope people treat you with the respect you deserve as you come out to everyone about this important stage in your life.

[John McClane]

Thanks everyone. It really means a lot to have your support. :)

[Captain Steel]

I've been trying to give myself a similar haircut - except symmetrically shaved on both sides - kind of like a quasi-marine / quasi-mohawk cut, but with a stylish center!

[tatmmw2]

We haven't really talked that much on the forum but I'm really glad you found who you really are :) and like everyone else I wish you the best of lucks! If youa re ok with questions, may I ask when did you first notice you were transgender?

[doubledenim]

So glad to hear you are a real person. I just thought you were a shoutbox bot :D .

[Guaporense]

Congrats for being trOO to yourself!

Did you get psychiatric approval for this though? I think that psychiatrists have to test you and approve you for transition or something (at least that was my impression in the cases of transgenders in my country).

[christine]

wishing you all the best. You only get one life, live it as happily as you can x

[John McClane]

I've been trying to give myself a similar haircut - except symmetrically shaved on both sides - kind of like a quasi-marine / quasi-mohawk cut, but with a stylish center!You mean, kinda like THIS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/prxzxi4vbxi7m2s/Photo%20May%2012%2C%2010%2011%2050.jpg?dl=0) haircut? You can't see it but the left side was trimmed to the same length as the right and back.

We haven't really talked that much on the forum but I'm really glad you found who you really are :) and like everyone else I wish you the best of lucks! If youa re ok with questions, may I ask when did you first notice you were transgender?I noticed when attending some grad classes at an all-girls school. I ended up getting my navel pierced around that time and that's when I knew for sure.

Congrats for being trOO to yourself!

Did you get psychiatric approval for this though? I think that psychiatrists have to test you and approve you for transition or something (at least that was my impression in the cases of transgenders in my country).Thanks for the support and concern. I've been in therapy for over a year now. :)

[Captain Spaulding]

Stop trying to steal my thunder. I'm still the first transgender MoFo.

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/captainspaulding87/cap%20trans_zps6w44bl5s.jpg

[Miss Vicky]

I ended up getting my navel pierced around that time and that's when I knew for sure.

I knew there was a reason it struck me as odd for a guy to have that done. I remember saying as much back then, too.

[John McClane]

Well, the head of HR and my manager are now in the know, too. And I must say that it has gone INCREDIBLY better at this job than it did at my last one. Absolutely amazing where I work right now. I feel safe, and that's a really big deal for me when it comes to my work.

[Captain Steel]

You mean, kinda like THIS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/prxzxi4vbxi7m2s/Photo%20May%2012%2C%2010%2011%2050.jpg?dl=0) haircut? You can't see it but the left side was trimmed to the same length as the right and back.


Yep. Pretty close. I'm a bit older and fatter, so mine's a bit more butch. I was kind of trying to go for an early 20th century or WWII feel.

http://hairstyleonpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/1403704302_brad-pitt-fury-350.jpg

Not me, obviously ;) but this was the cut I was kind of shooting for.

I swear it's helped me out with traffic tickets because the modern version is a popular cut with the cops - so they think I'm either one of them, or that I support them, or that I'm former military.

[Pussy Galore]

How do you know that the biological male body in which you were born doesn't represent your true gender? Would you say that there is a clear distinction between biological self and the social construct of gender? If so, what is the direct correlation between the social construct and your body? What I mean is that I'm curious to understand the taught process that happened in your head when you knew that the body in which you were born didn't equate to the one that suited you.

Btw I totally approve of people changing sex, I don't mind at all, I just philosophically question myself as to the nature of this sort of intern dualism.

[John McClane]

How do you know that the biological male body in which you were born doesn't represent your true gender? Would you say that there is a clear distinction between biological self and the social construct of gender? If so, what is the direct correlation between the social construct and your body? What I mean is that I'm curious to understand the taught process that happened in your head when you knew that the body in which you were born didn't equate to the one that suited you. Well, first things first, this is all in hindsight. Before now I just had a feeling something was off with me but never knew what it was or how to describe it. Then trans issues got big in the media and I started doing research and things just clicked.

The number one reason why I know is because whenever I spent time with boys as a kid/teenager I always felt isolated and when I acted like them to "belong" (ball busting and rough housing) I felt intensely uncomfortable and uneasy. I mean, at times I was physically ill from "behaving" like a guy.

As far as taught process, go read some Deleuze and you'll understand how my mind works. Basically, my self is just a construct of connections (physical and social) that I have amassed over my life: the difficult part about this is that I have a large quantity of connections that do not jive, and I have yet another large quantity of connections that I have suppressed (physical and social) my entire life. This makes navigating or finding myself to be even more complicated and confusing than it was when I first started down this road. Hopefully it gets easier.

[John McClane]

And as far as genitals go...both sexes are made from the same collection of parts but just configured differently, so I have become much more aware of my gender dysphoria in this regard because what I see and what I feel do not make a "connection". Now that I know all this it has gotten much worse: to the point where I am highly considering the "full fix" now.

[Citizen Rules]

John of course I wish all the best. But I do have a few questions and suggestions before you go all the way with surgery.

Have you talked to more than just one counselor about this? One person might have a totally different take on why you feel the way you do. It can't hurt to talk to other people. In fact if you get all sorts of different positive and negative advice, and still in the long run feel like your decision is correct, then at least you know you made the right one.

But if you are at all uncertain about such a decision, wait...I mean you're still young and you have plenty of time to get to know yourself.

Has anybody explored the different possibilities for you feeling the way you do. There could be more than just one answer.

And seeing how you made this public I hope you don't mind if I ask you, are you currently a gay male? a hetro male? A bi male? What will you preference for a mate be after the sex change?

Have you lived as a female (dressed for extended periods of time)? Gone out in public as a female?

You don't have to answer any of those questions if you don't want to.

[John McClane]

Have you talked to more than just one counselor about this? One person might have a totally different take on why you feel the way you do. It can't hurt to talk to other people. In fact if you get all sorts of different positive and negative advice, and still in the long run feel like your decision is correct, then at least you know you made the right one.I've seen 4 therapists over the past 2 years. One was a power hungry witch who did very little to help me and, quite frankly, took advantage of my trust. I've lost a couple friends that I've had for years. Believe me, I've had quite a bit of opposition but I've decided it's just time to dig my feet in deeper.

But if you are at all uncertain about such a decision, wait...I mean you're still young and you have plenty of time to get to know yourself.No, I don't have plenty of time. I have much less time than you think. My body's physical changes over the past 2 years have been tantamount to torture.

And seeing how you made this public I hope you don't mind if I ask you, are you currently a gay male? a hetro male? A bi male? What will you preference for a mate be after the sex change?I'd rather not talk about that because it gets away from the actual problem: my gender. Sexuality and gender are diverse but don't exactly correlate.

Have you lived as a female (dressed for extended periods of time)? Gone out in public as a female?I've gone out in public dressed as a female, yes. But can you tell me...how does a female dress when they go out in public? If you see a woman in pants do you critique her womanliness?

[Ðèstîñy]

What I mean is that I'm curious to understand the taught process that happened in your head when you knew that the body in which you were born didn't equate to the one that suited you.

This is exactly what I was about to ask. I mean, the last time I talked directly to you, you were showing how buff you got your chest and body, doing all that body building. The before and after pictures. You also had a new girlfriend that you had pictures with. You do have plenty of time to work this out. Just be careful how fast you jump at this, son. You are still a youngster. ;)

[Citizen Rules]

I'd rather not talk about that because it gets away from the actual problem: my gender. Sexuality and gender are diverse but don't exactly correlate. I can respect those boundaries. Can I ask if any of your therapist explored that question with you.

If you see a woman in pants do you critique her womanliness?I've gone out in public dressed as a female, yes. But can you tell me...how does a female dress when they go out in public? Good point and I was going to make that same point to you, that a female isn't just high heels and lipstick. Plenty of woman more or less wear what guys do. So dressing as a woman doesn't mean a male is meant to be a female. And it sounds like you considered that point, which is good for you.

I know you started this thread to talk about the subject, maybe it would be helpful to you, if you told us more about the whys and hows, and you can even ask us questions. I'm no expert, I've seen a few documentaries on TV. Did you read the thread by Sexy Celebrity about transgender? I think it might have been called Transgender Nation? I know there was a lot of joking in there, but you might gleam some insight from what was said.

Have you attended group sessions for transgenders, like the GLBT groups? It might useful to talk to others in your situation and see what you have in common with them and what you don't.

[Captain Steel]

No, I don't have plenty of time. I have much less time than you think. My body's physical changes over the past 2 years have been tantamount to torture.


Now I'm confused. What physical changes have you been going through that are torturous, John? And how are they limiting your time?


Just commenting on some of your past posts - I felt similar as a kid: I didn't fit in with boys (I didn't like sports, I wasn't aggressive, etc.) I desperately wanted to be friends with the girls, but none of them liked me either.

Growing older, women I've been with tell me I have a dominant female side (or inner female) or that I'm just very in touch with my female side. I can understand this as I don't engage in trying to impress (in a machismo fashion), I'm sensitive, creative. I have very female-like emotions (but have spent a lot of time controlling, channelling & compartmentalizing them - a typically male practice).

So females think I'm internally female while almost all gay guys I've met have said they think I'm gay. Remarkably, very few straight men have ever said I seem female or gay to them. Maybe I'm just a "Zelig" (an adaptive chameleon) or a mirror-person whom others see themselves in?

[John McClane]

This is exactly what I was about to ask. I mean, the last time I talked directly to you, you were showing how buff you got your chest and body, doing all that body building. The before and after pictures. You also had a new girlfriend that you had pictures with. You do have plenty of time to work this out. Just be careful how fast you jump at this, son. You are still a youngster. ;)I was overcompensating mainly to convince myself: it didn't work.

I can respect those boundaries. Can I ask if any of your therapist explored that question with you.Yup, and just about everyone else I've told in my life: "so do you like girls or guys?" I've heard that a lot. :D

Now I'm confused. What physical changes have you been going through that are torturous, John? And how are they limiting your time?I've started growing hairs on my chest and my body odor has become more pronounced: it's very unsettling to me. While some things will be reversible the longer I have testosterone giving me secondary sex traits the more things that won't change back or change as much/easily.


Just commenting on some of your past posts - I felt similar as a kid: I didn't fit in with boys (I didn't like sports, I wasn't aggressive, etc.) I desperately wanted to be friends with the girls, but none of them liked me either.

Growing older, women I've been with tell me I have a dominant female side (or inner female) or that I'm just very in touch with my female side. I can understand this as I don't engage in trying to impress (in a machismo fashion), I'm sensitive, creative. I have very female-like emotions (but have spent a lot of time controlling, channelling & compartmentalizing them - a typically male practice).

So females think I'm internally female while almost all gay guys I've met have said they think I'm gay. Remarkably, very few straight men have ever said I seem female or gay to them. Maybe I'm just a "Zelig" (an adaptive chameleon) or a mirror-person whom others see themselves in?Yeah, same here. Question is how did all of that make you feel internally? I'm willing to bet that you and I have had considerable differences in our internal thoughts even though it sounds like our childhood desires/connections were fairly similar.

[Captain Steel]

Yeah, same here. Question is how did all of that make you feel internally? I'm willing to bet that you and I have had considerable differences in our internal thoughts even though it sounds like our childhood desires/connections were fairly similar.

Well, I guess at puberty I discovered I desired girls as more than just friends. I never had problems with owning male parts - in fact I found them quite utilitarian (if you're in the woods or driving in a rural area you can pee just about anywhere!) ;)

As a child I may have fantasized about being a girl only because I might be invited into their society on the playground if I shared their gender. But I also knew that, despite my gender, I was still me - and if I was a male who didn't fit in with all the other boys, then it was possible that even if I was a girl I wouldn't fit in with them either.

So, even though I seemed to have some problems with male culture & social norms growing up, I didn't have a problem being male myself, except that I didn't fit in with the activities and expected roles of my gender. For that matter, I didn't fit in with females either - I was shy, scared & introverted and that made me an outcast. I didn't discover any feeling of belonging to a social group until I started working in my late teens.

It seems my problems growing up were more social-based rather than any confusion or discomfort with my biology.

[John McClane]

Well, I guess at puberty I discovered I desired girls as more than just friends. I never had problems with owning male parts - in fact I found them quite utilitarian (if you're in the woods or driving in a rural area you can pee just about anywhere!) ;)And I discovered that I desired guys as more than just friends but didn't feel like I was a gay male. I was OK with liking guys but not OK with being a guy. Again, this is purely hindsight.

As a child I may have fantasized about being a girl only because I might be invited into their society on the playground if I shared their gender. But I also knew that, despite my gender, I was still me - and if I was a male who didn't fit in with all the other boys, then it was possible that even if I was a girl I wouldn't fit in with them either. And I looked at girls and felt jealous: the ponytails, the earrings, the dresses, and etc. I was jealous they got to act and dress the way they did without anyone telling them it wasn't appropriate.

[Captain Steel]

Interesting.

Here's my concern, John... and I hope this doesn't sound harsh... but you can't really know what it's like to be something else until you actually are. The problem is, with gender, there's no going back.

I don't want to make such a rudimentary comparison as comparing it to a job, but just to illustrate the concept - many people have felt if they could just get this job... if they could just become a (fill in the blank) then they'd finally feel complete. So they quit their old job and finally get the job as a whatever. Then they discover that their idea of being a whatever was nothing like the reality of it. Their concept of how they'd feel once they stopped being what they were and became what they dreamed of was a false one - because they couldn't know what it was like to be what they wanted to be until they actually were that thing, and sometimes the realization that their ideal didn't match the reality came too late. This concept could be applied to a lot of things in life - it's really a matter of weighing the risks.

Of course, there's plenty of stories were the reverse is true too - where the risk paid off.

But this is why some here are advising taking time and using caution entering into an irreversible decision.

There's also the issue of surgery to get rid of healthy, working parts. There is risk. And the worst part is there is no going back if you discover that a drastic physical dismemberment does not change all the ways you feel inside, or adds a whole bunch of new feelings (physical, mental or emotional) that you weren't expecting.

This is a silly parable, but I have this one tooth in the back of my mouth that the dentist is always trying to talk me into getting rid of. I call it "Frankentooth" because it's horrible looking and has so many different fillings. But I've told the dentist my philosophy: the tooth doesn't hurt, it chews food and if it's no threat to my health, then I'm not going to remove any body part until or unless it becomes a problem.

I've considered Lasik surgery, but for me, the risk of my eyesight worsening or being blind is just too great when weighed against the inconvenience of wearing glasses. Maybe someday, if I gain more faith in the process I might reconsider.

[John McClane]

Surgery is a couple years down the road. Hormones is first order of business and that's going to be the real reveal. If after a couple weeks I feel better then I think it's obvious that there's something to my feelings of self. Wouldn't you agree?

[Citizen Rules]

John forgive me if I'm not reading you correctly...but it sounds like you're saying you have low self esteem issues and that a sex change will correct that for you.

This is supposition as I don't know you, but bare with me:

Many people feel bad about themselves with low self esteem & self image issues. Like Captain's job allegory, there are people who've been driven to become famous actors & performers in the mistaken belief that once they achieve their dream, their self image issues will vanish and they will be healed.

Consider this, there was a young man from a poor family who never felt good about himself. He had all sorts of negative self issues that he believed would disappear, if only he could make it as a rock musician. This dream of 'being someone different' made him feel better about himself, as it gave him hope.

When he actually made it big as a musician, and had millions of dollars and adoring fans, he found he still felt the same way, with the same self doubts and the same anxieties...Only now his dream that his life would be transformed for the better by being a musician was gone. Once that dream of hope was gone he had no other way to deal with his negative self issues. So he put a shotgun in his mouth and blew the top of his head off. That's the story of Kurt Cobain of Nirvana.

John, I want you to really think about that, and think if you will truly feel better about yourself after a sex change...or are you just escaping who you are. Because even after a sex change, you will still be you.

"No matter where you go... there you are"...Buckaroo Banzai

[Miss Vicky]

I understand people's concerns, but I think everyone needs to remember that this is her life and her decision. McClane raises a very valid point that sexual reassignment surgery would not be the first step in the transition. Hormone replacement therapy would precede surgery and at least some of the effects of it would be reversed or diminished as the natural hormones begin to take back over should she change her mind. And even if she doesn't change her mind about transitioning, she would still have the option to change her mind about reassignment surgery since that wouldn't happen for a few years anyway.

That said, I've never experienced gender dysphoria so obviously I don't know what the best course of action should be and the answer probably varies between individuals. I think the best thing to do is to see if you can locate other trans people - perhaps a forum or other online group? - and talk to them about their experiences before proceeding with any decision.

[Captain Steel]

I understand people's concerns, but I think everyone needs to remember that this is her life and her decision.

I think everyone who's commented does remember that. It's an interesting topic, and even more interesting when someone like John comes forward to discuss it directly & openly on a one to one basis (as opposed to a bunch of us just speculating about it).

But, as with any major, life-changing decision, people are advising John to think it through, not to make any rash, emotionally-driven decisions, and to proceed diligently and carefully to address any risks involved beforehand.

[John McClane]

John forgive me if I'm not reading you correctly...but it sounds like you're saying you have low self esteem issues and that a sex change will correct that for you.No, I'm not saying that at all.

John, I want you to really think about that, and think if you will truly feel better about yourself after a sex change...or are you just escaping who you are. Because even after a sex change, you will still be you.

"No matter where you go... there you are"...Buckaroo BanzaiIt's not a matter of feeling better about myself: I already feel pretty great about who I am as an individual. I'm a sensitive and caring person, and I am happy with where I am as a person in my life. The problem, however, is that regardless of how I feel about myself I have physical feelings about my body that are largely unaffected by how I feel about my inner-self. Does this make sense?

That said, I've never experienced gender dysphoria so obviously I don't know what the best course of action should be and the answer probably varies between individuals. I think the best thing to do is to see if you can locate other trans people - perhaps a forum or other online group? - and talk to them about their experiences before proceeding with any decision.Yeah, that is the plan. There is an active support community where I live for LGBT individuals. I just haven't worked up enough courage to go yet. :blush:

I think everyone who's commented does remember that. It's an interesting topic, and even more interesting when someone like John comes forward to discuss it directly & openly on a one to one basis (as opposed to a bunch of us just speculating about it).

But, as with any major, life-changing decision, people are advising John to think it through, not to make any rash, emotionally-driven decisions, and to proceed diligently and carefully to address any risks involved beforehand.I appreciate all input that I get, including the "no, don't do it!" I made this thread because I'm not ashamed/embarassed about this part of me anymore, and I knew that I would possibly get a vast range of comments. All of which is helpful. :)

[ash_is_the_gal]

OMG, Matt/John. dude/dudette. i'm so so so happy to read how far you have come since the last time we spoke! from conversations we have had in the past, i could definitely tell you were dealing with identity and sexuality issues. i'm so so so so happy to hear you've made such strides in your life, and are willing to finally be open about it. i can only imagine what a relief that must be. also, it makes me happy that the transgender community has become more normalized to the point that a personal friend of mine felt comfortable enough to "come out" as transgender.

i wish you all happy things and love :love:

also, we should catch up sometime <3

aggh i'm not crying you're crying :p

[Sedai]

I don't presume to be able to comment on the why and what for in this situation, as I don't have a personal referent, but I will say that in all the years I have known Matt, including the time he came out to visit my wife and I and stayed at our place for a few days, I never got the idea that he had low self esteem.

[John McClane]

I don't presume to be able to comment on the why and what for in this situation, as I don't have a personal referent, but I will say that in all the years I have known Matt, including the time he came out to visit my wife and I and stayed at our place for a few days, I never got the idea that he had low self esteem.
Thanks!! :)

[Captain Steel]

No, I'm not saying that at all.

It's not a matter of feeling better about myself: I already feel pretty great about who I am as an individual. I'm a sensitive and caring person, and I am happy with where I am as a person in my life. The problem, however, is that regardless of how I feel about myself I have physical feelings about my body that are largely unaffected by how I feel about my inner-self. Does this make sense?


John, not to beat a dead horse, but what you describe could also be a form of "body dysmorphic disorder" (I'm not saying it is, just that it could be.)

The disorder usually focuses on issues related to appearance. But in some more extreme similar disorders, people have amputated body parts just because they "didn't like them" or, even though their limb was functional & healthy it somehow made them uncomfortable, so they cut it off.

Again, don't take this the wrong way - I'm not saying any of these disorders are your problem, just another bit of cautionary advice to look thoroughly into all possibilities of why you feel the way you do before any major deletions. :)

http://www.biobehavioralinstitute.com/viewarticle.php?id=4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apotemnophilia

[John McClane]

I think you're failing to realize that the issue I have is a lack of something (estrogen): I don't have an issue with wanting to get rid/cut something off. Put some estrogen in me and I'm willingly to bet that I am going to feel so much better. There are a vast array of things (secondary sex traits) affected by your hormone levels that will be fixed without cutting anything off.

[Captain Steel]

I think you're failing to realize that the issue I have is a lack of something (estrogen): I don't have an issue with wanting to get rid/cut something off. Put some estrogen in me and I'm willingly to bet that I am going to feel so much better. There are a vast array of things (secondary sex traits) affected by your hormone levels that will be fixed without cutting anything off.

Have you had any estrogen yet?

You've probably made this clear (but I'm too lazy to go back through the whole thread) ;) but are you ultimately planning to cut something off?

[John McClane]

Have you had any estrogen yet?No, nothing external anyways. Everybody has both estrogen and testosterone in their bodies, and I was thankfully blessed with a genetically inferior family gene pool: I've never had my hormone levels checked, but I'm willing to bet I have low testosterone levels.

You've probably made this clear (but I'm too lazy to go back through the whole thread) ;) but are you ultimately planning to cut something off?At this point it is so far away that there's no point in talking about it. In all honesty, you shouldn't ever talk about it with someone who tells you they are trans. It's between them and their physician.

[Captain Steel]

No, nothing external anyways. Everybody has both estrogen and testosterone in their bodies, and I was thankfully blessed with a genetically inferior family gene pool: I've never had my hormone levels checked, but I'm willing to bet I have low testosterone levels.

At this point it is so far away that there's no point in talking about it. In all honesty, you shouldn't ever talk about it with someone who tells you they are trans. It's between them and their physician.

But you're here talking about it with us. ;)

Personally, I don't think testosterone or estrogen would help me... put some oxycodone in me and I'm willingly to bet that I am going to feel so much better. ;)

[Guaporense]

John, not to beat a dead horse, but what you describe could also be a form of "body dysmorphic disorder" (I'm not saying it is, just that it could be.)

The disorder usually focuses on issues related to appearance. But in some more extreme similar disorders, people have amputated body parts just because they "didn't like them" or, even though their limb was functional & healthy it somehow made them uncomfortable, so they cut it off.

Again, don't take this the wrong way - I'm not saying any of these disorders are your problem, just another bit of cautionary advice to look thoroughly into all possibilities of why you feel the way you do before any major deletions. :)

http://www.biobehavioralinstitute.com/viewarticle.php?id=4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apotemnophilia

Well the most insulting theory of transgenders is the autogynephilia theory (which I read about actually after last year's thread on the subject when I read some psychiatric papers on the field). It basically says that most transgenders are heterosexual males who get off on the idea of being "from inside" a girls body so that a sex change is just a radical form of masturbation.

That was I think the standard theory of transxexuality back in the 1980s. It came under severe attack however by some academics and trans people (naturally):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard's_transsexualism_typology

[John McClane]

I saw my gender therapist today. I'm starting the paperwork for my name change and have a referral to a doctor for hormones. :)

[Miss Vicky]

What name have you chosen?

[John McClane]

Kendra.

[mark f]

One of my daughter's best friend's names. :cool:

[TheUsualSuspect]

https://redrosie2010.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/tumblr_n54aoobedi1s389oyo9_250.gif

[John McClane]

I have an appointment on Feb 10th to start hormones. :)

[Captain Steel]

http://is2.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Video7/v4/93/b4/08/93b408df-f915-a520-d022-3e2ced6e41de/mzl.bbggbjum.jpg/600x600bb-85.jpg

Sorry.

[John McClane]

:randy: ;)

[ash_is_the_gal]

https://redrosie2010.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/tumblr_n54aoobedi1s389oyo9_250.gif

noooo lol

[Sedai]

^^^ Worst actress EVER.

[ShopkeeperTriumph]

^^^ Worst actress EVER.

http://dlisted.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/wenn5967371.jpg

Don't claim what is rightfully hers.

[JayDee]

I don't really know you at all Matt/Kendra except for seeing your name occasionally on the board but congratulations on coming to this decision and good luck with it all. I might not share the same issues as you've been dealing with, but as someone who has struggled with depression and anxiety my whole life I'd encourage anything that you think will have a positive impact on your life and make you a happier person. Good luck

[John McClane]

I met someone. Might be a possible future there, too. :)

[Captain Steel]

I met someone. Might be a possible future there, too. :)


What's his transgender, John?

[Dani8]

I'm new and this thread just jumped up. Good for you and all the best. Come on down to sydney town for the LGBT mardi gras Feb 15. Really fun party for the whole city. I'm straight but always support the good work of the LGBT community here. Hugs to you.

[Captain Steel]

I'm new and this thread just jumped up. Good for you and all the best. Come on down to sydney town for the LGBT mardi gras Feb 15. Really fun party for the whole city. I'm straight but always support the good work of the LGBT community here. Hugs to you.

I want to echo Dani's sentiments by saying...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZCcWt1h4dE

[John McClane]

:rotfl:

[John McClane]

Well, I got hormones today. :)

Also, my car is murder over long distances: I miss the Aurora. :(

[Little Devil]

Congrats Kendra. The first step to true happiness is knowing who we really are [and that is real hard work].

You are on your way now.

[Captain Steel]

Well, I got hormones today. :)

Also, my car is murder over long distances: I miss the Aurora. :(

What's that like?

A while back I heard all this business about "testosterone" - all these pills and injections and enhancements to increase it and how doing so could "rejuvenate" you.
Since I'm something of a naturalist (except when it comes to "expanding my consciousness") ;) I looked up natural ways to boost testosterone. Not to get graphic, but the #1 way of creating a natural testosterone boost was looking at pornography and maturbating to it (to completion - verrry important to the process to maximize increased hormone production).

So Kendra, you may want to stay away from the adult sites for a while and refrain from opening PM's sent by Mr. Minio. And for the guys feeling a little long in the tooth and looking for something that'll put hair on your chest - you know what to do! Get crackin'!

To your health!

[John McClane]

You might be missing a lot more than an Aurora someday.Do you not ever grow tired of acting like a child? :confusedwhite:

[Captain Steel]

Also (conversely from testosterone) I used to drink Soy Milk, but then heard that by doing so I may be consuming estrogen (I have no idea how it supposedly gets in there). So I stopped drinking it. I have no problem embracing my female side, but consuming any hormones seems unhealthy to me - besides, my "man boobs" are big enough from lack of exercise and trans-fats, I don't need any extra help from estrogen!

[Dani8]

Hey I dont want to wield a stick but steady on, SC. I know I'm a newb and all but you're overstepping a boundary, mate.

[Captain Steel]

Do you not ever grow tired of acting like a child? :confusedwhite:

John, just curious (and not trying to instigate) but why do you find my prodding you funny, but see SC's as immature?

[Dani8]

I'm not the one crossing the gender border here. At least, not since a few hours ago.


Oh come on, matey. Feeling a bit cruel. I know you like to muck about from personal experience and I'm getting to understand that about you but I find this a bit much. Kendra opened up about something deeply personal and you've gone in like a land piranha.

[Dani8]

OK that's cool, so come and chat to me in other threads. See you in the other subforums.

[Miss Vicky]

Also (conversely from testosterone) I used to drink Soy Milk, but then heard that by doing so I may be consuming estrogen (I have no idea how it supposedly gets in there). So I stopped drinking it. I have no problem embracing my female side, but consuming any hormones seems unhealthy to me - besides, my "man boobs" are big enough from lack of exercise and trans-fats, I don't need any extra help from estrogen!

It's phytoestrogen, which is naturally produced by the soy plant.

[jakubmike]

Cool... I am bulbasaur. And no, I am not kidding, when I am having beer with my friends they always get picked while I am just sitting there. Yeah I get it, Charmander has big flamming tail, so f-ing what, what's so great about frikking tail?

Sorry... it's touchy subject;)

[Mr Minio]

So Kendra, you may want to stay away from the adult sites for a while and refrain from opening PM's sent by Mr. Minio. Good. She (HE?!) will open my PMs, then.

[John McClane]

Well, I took my first dose an hour ago: fingers crossed for good genetics and C cups. :D

[Dani8]

What are the potential side FX, Kendra? The one I'm taking gives me hot flushes. Probably be OK for you if it's winter there. A bit hellish for me because there's a heatwave here, and overheating makes me vomit. no nausea, just big spews that go on and on, even if I havent eaten. A bit icky.

[Captain Steel]

Good. She (HE?!) will open my PMs, then.

It's funny - my mother's name is "Dot."

[John McClane]

What are the potential side FX, Kendra? The one I'm taking gives me hot flushes. Probably be OK for you if it's winter there. A bit hellish for me because there's a heatwave here, and overheating makes me vomit. no nausea, just big spews that go on and on, even if I havent eaten. A bit icky.Well, my chance of liver & kidney disease is increased. My chance of stroke and heart disease is also increased. But the doctor said that for someone like me who's young and healthy...it's very unlikely anything bad will happen. If I was a super heavy smoker then it would be more of a concern.

John, just curious (and not trying to instigate) but why do you find my prodding you funny, but see SC's as immature?Because at least you're being somewhat supportive in your joking and questions. SC is just being combative for no reason. That's why.

[ShopkeeperTriumph]

Cool... I am bulbasaur. And no, I am not kidding, when I am having beer with my friends they always get picked while I am just sitting there. Yeah I get it, Charmander has big flamming tail, so f-ing what, what's so great about frikking tail?

Sorry... it's touchy subject;)

This is the most confusing post I've had to read since I joined.

[ash_is_the_gal]

is anyone really surprised SC has everything but class?

anyway, i guess i never really put a lot of thought into the hormones you take if you're transgender but now that i'm reading about it, it kinda sounds like similar side effects to birth control pills.

i hope you're feeling good, Kendra. <3

[Dani8]

Well, my chance of liver & kidney disease is increased. My chance of stroke and heart disease is also increased. But the doctor said that for someone like me who's young and healthy...it's very unlikely anything bad will happen. If I was a super heavy smoker then it would be more of a concern..

Oh wow I had no idea, I was thinking more along the lines of estrogen mucking around with your emotions and stuff, like if it would trick your body into a monthly cycle of the pre menstrual wanna punch you in the head moods.

[Miss Vicky]

I just don't buy that John McClane is actually a woman.

We're people who think. Maybe I have no class... but I'm also someone who recognizes that he feels disturbed at the idea of a man putting female hormones into his body to grow boobs, when maybe he shouldn't. I actually care about people.

You "actually care" yet your reaction is to make McClane feel like crap about it? Nice solution. The only people whose opinions matter on what she should or should not do are her, her therapist, and her doctors.

And you know what? I know for a fact that Yoda doesn't think he's really female, either. I'm sure we can add Omnizoa to the list of dissenters, as well.

Why don't you let those people speak for themselves if they choose? If Yoda has said something to you in private, then that should remain private. Don't go outing other people. If he has said nothing, then don't go making assumptions about his thoughts and don't assume anything about Omni's thoughts either.

[jakubmike]

This is the most confusing post I've had to read since I joined.

Hehe...mission accomplished:cool:

[Austruck]

Matt, I have a question: You mention that, if you were tested, you think your testosterone levels might be low. I know someone who officially has low levels (but not horrendously low -- he's just on medications, etc.), and I see what it does to a man.

Had you considered that perhaps going the route of adding testosterone rather than estrogen might help? It seems a less extreme solution, all things being equal (which I know they're not). This really is just a question that hit me when I read your post about thinking you probably have low testosterone.

[Yoda]

I'm pretty well swamped with site work this week, but I'll just say that MattJohn asked me about this privately awhile ago, and what we said is between us. But I don't think there's any mutual exclusivity between caring about someone and being skeptical of some of their decisions, particularly life-altering ones.

I don't subscribe to the notion that caring about someone means supporting anything they do. Sometimes it means disagreeing with them or asking difficult questions. It would be easier to never contradict, never risk their disapproval, but I don't think that's what caring about someone actually looks like, and it's not how MattJohn and I have ever approached the many things in our lives we've discussed over the years.

[Miss Vicky]

What you need to get through your thick skull is that this is a discussion forum. This is not Miss Vicky's Playland. This is not Miss Vicky's Happy Times Home.

I'm well aware of what this place is and what you need to get through your thick skull is that I have just as much right to express my opinions as you do - not only about McClane's decisions and motives but about yours as well.

It's not Sexy Celebrity's Playland, either.

[Miss Vicky]

I don't subscribe to the notion that caring about someone means supporting anything they do. Sometimes it means disagreeing with them or asking difficult questions.

I agree with this entirely, however I think there's a big difference between disagreeing and asking difficult questions and making fun of the person like SC's doing.

[Dani8]

kendra, have you seen The Danish Girl and if so what did you think? As a cis woman I found this movie so touching, and felt it was sensitively handled. I saw the PoV of both Lily and Gerda, and empathised with both their journeys. Might have cried...

[Little Devil]

I know some transgenders [and a full blown hermaphrodite]. One of them is the person who rents the room to one of my best friends, and she got her chance to become externally what she always felt she was internally. She took it, she is **** happy,

I have all the respect and applaud any difficult decision that leads to personal discovery. It's the hardest thing one can go through. It's not just about the sex change, it's the whole **** internal process of life long self-doubt, shame and the feeling of not belonging to one's skin.

Must be really difficult.

[Little Devil]

kendra, have you seen The Danish Girl and if so what did you think? As a cis woman I found this movie so touching, and felt it was sensitively handled. I saw the PoV of both Lily and Gerda, and empathised with both their journeys. Might have cried...
My lady loves that movie. Got to say, the dude played a hell of a difficult role. It's nice to see a man showing sensibility.

[Dani8]

I love that movie, Dev. I didn't cry because I was upset. I actually found it an uplifting story. I was horrified by one of the scenes with a doctor, snd the scene in the park with the bullies, but the relationship with the two, and the non judgmental friendship with Lily's childhood friend (yes I do know he was a fictional character), just so beautiful. And just the emotional depiction of the journey for both of them. Plus, it's just such a visually appealing movie.

[Dani8]

mate, don't you think it's between patient and medical team, not people sitting behind a keyboard? You and I sorted out our initial prickles but sometimes i think you lack boundaries. I understand the thought of surgical removal of man bits can be very confronting for straight men, but kendra is not you, and you're imposing your feelings of self (which are perfectly fine) onto her. That's a bit unfair. Kendra's journey has no impact on your life, or your penis.

[Miss Vicky]

Oh, as if I'm the only one making fun of him.

I've actually been trying to NOT make fun of him. There were some things I said that I decided to delete out of respect.

Yesterday, during the Top MoFos Countdown, when John McClane's name came up, you used a picture to represent the chemical composition of estrogen.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=28862&stc=1&d=1487009212

So that's all he is to you -- estrogen.

At least he means more to me than estrogen.

No, that's not all she is to me. But I know she believes that taking estrogen will relieve her problems. It's the first thing that came to my sleep-deprived mind - other than the character John McClane which I didn't think was fitting. Last night, after I'd had some rest and had a clearer mind, I switched the image to the Trans pride symbol she's currently using in her avatar.

[Dani8]

I didnt say you couldnt voice your opinion so please dont twist my words. You and camo seem quite fond of this. Either that or you both have a comprehension problem. I said you lack boundaries. It;s your way of speaking to and about kendra as if she's not even in the room I find itchy and scratchy.

so there you go, I have the right to voice my opinion as well. *thumbs up*

[Little Devil]

I love that movie, Dev. I didn't cry because I was upset. I actually found it an uplifting story. I was horrified by one of the scenes with a doctor, snd the scene in the park with the bullies, but the relationship with the two, and the non judgmental friendship with Lily's childhood friend (yes I do know he was a fictional character), just so beautiful. And just the emotional depiction of the journey for both of them. Plus, it's just such a visually appealing movie.
Yes it's visually stunning. My wife cried a lot.

[Little Devil]

Some people can be happy being transgender their whole life. If you're going to make THAT big of a decision, you better be **** sure. Only the person her/himself knows if he/she is ready or not. Sometimes - even having nothing to do with such an important and life changing decision - we make a decision and end up backing away from it. It's ok. It's part of life.

But this transgender business is becoming trendy and I'm not convinced everyone is right for it.the onbly problem I have with the "everyone is [or not] right for it" is that only the person her/himself can come to that conclusion, even if he/she later regrets it. Imagine that you decide to pull all your teeth out and get a prosthetic [for some reason or another], Who is to say "you are not ready for that"?
Nor am I even convinced that all of these doctors and psychologists are sure of what they're doing to people. There are doctors out there giving little kids "blockers" to keep them from going through puberty so they won't develop adult characteristics of the sex they were born as. It's insane that young children are going through mad scientist experiments at such a young age just because they think they're not the right sex. Well, as far as I can tell they sure do know more about it than I do. It's their job to know it.

When I was a little kid, I often felt like a girl in a boy's body myself. If I was a kid in 2017 and I had such a progressive parent, they might tell me, "IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE TRANSGENDER! YOU NEED TO CHANGE! You need to start taking this and this so you won't become A MAN!"

And you know what? I grew up and I like being a man a lot (for the most part). No way in Hell am I gonna cut off my genitals and become a fake woman. It would have been nice to have been born a woman (straight guys are beyond hotter than gay guys, I don't care what you think), but I wasn't born a woman. Nature made me this way. Like so many other things in life, I CAN'T ALWAYS GET MY WAY.I know [to some degree] where you are coming from. I will not discuss sub-cultural topics. However I will say that if an adult wants to have a sex change because they feel they were born with the wrong body, I see absolutely no fault in that.

But then the question is: what about the early teenagers that are already conscientious of their predicament? Should the parents allow or even suggest such medical intervention?

It's a very tricky situation. The teenager is still developing, and both Infancy and Teen years are the most critical when it comes to personality build up.

It's not hard to imagine all the kids that get beat up at school because they act "different": It's very ***aging to them and later in life they will show it [one way or the other] in their behavior.

You may even say "sure, but kids are awful to each other anyway, no need to go that far", to which I would reply that it must be a lot more tougher when you are fighting your inner self as well. Personality build up is critical for the way an individual sees himself and reacts to outside stimuli [positive and negative].

But we live in a time period now where people think they can have ANYTHING THEY WANT! Feeling a little less masculine? Ever thought of being a girl? IT'S OKAY, LET'S TRANSGENDERIZE YOU!The other side of the coin is "I know you feel miserable. Sulk it up and be quiet".

I have warned John McClane that this could all be a very big mistake. But he seems to be going through with it. In all honesty, I don't care if people want to have sex changes. I'm not against it. But personally, I'm not convinced they're actually the sex they believe they are in their head. I'm not convinced they actually just have a "brain of the opposite sex in the wrong body." The LGBT movement wants acceptance. They want to prove people are born this way. They want to prove there's a gay gene... that people are born transgender.... all of that. Then, they think, they can shove all of this proof in the faces of religious people and bigots and say, "HA HA! YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE BABY, I WAS BORN THIS WAY!" Kendra's prerogative is her own. Only she knows what is best for her.

[ash_is_the_gal]

I just don't buy that John McClane is actually a woman.

And you know what? I know for a fact that Yoda doesn't think he's really female, either. I'm sure we can add Omnizoa to the list of dissenters, as well.

We're people who think. Maybe I have no class... but I'm also someone who recognizes that he feels disturbed at the idea of a man putting female hormones into his body to grow boobs, when maybe he shouldn't.

i don't think you should speak for other people (Yoda, Omni), especially if they haven't spoken up themselves. what is said in PM is private, ffs. i also think there is a difference between disagreeing with someone's lifestyle but still being supportive of that person, even WHILE disagreeing with them. if you want to voice concern, ok fine, but be respectful about it. it's you FRIEND, right? they deserve that. but you are controlling, as usual. you are convinced JohnMcClane is completely incapable of making a decision for herself, even though she's explained how much research she's done. because i can guarantee she's done a lot more than you have.


I actually care about people. You just wanna act cool and cheer anything on if everyone else is doing it.

oh, quit acting like you know me so well that you can make such a sweeping assumption. i'm not going to assume you don't care, especially if you tell me you do. i mean, believe whatever you want about what my 'motivations' are if you must (apparently i just wanna be cool and don't actually care about JohnMcClane? lol even though we speak and keep in touch almost daily off of Mofo... but yeah, i must just be keeping that whooole friendship up because i wanna be cool so badly)

also lol @ accusing other people of being cool when your whole persona around here is basically just for attention, you narcissist

[Miss Vicky]

There are doctors out there giving little kids "blockers" to keep them from going through puberty so they won't develop adult characteristics of the sex they were born as. It's insane that young children are going through mad scientist experiments at such a young age just because they think they're not the right sex. When I was a little kid, I often felt like a girl in a boy's body myself. If I was a kid in 2017 and I had such a progressive parent, they might tell me, "IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE TRANSGENDER! YOU NEED TO CHANGE! You need to start taking this and this so you won't become A MAN!"

I agree that transitioning children is wrong, but Kendra is not a child. She's an adult.

And as I've said before, I don't see any harm in trying out the hormones to see if they make a difference. Sure there are risks - just as there are risks to anything that you put in your body - but the changes the hormones will make can be reversed or diminished if the results aren't what she's hoping for and she stops taking the hormones.

[Dani8]

Seriously, that was unnecessary and you're being contemptuous and tantrumy. If you can dish it out, you might want to take it when it's served back. Two way street and all, SC.

[Camo]

I didnt say you couldnt voice your opinion so please dont twist my words. You and camo seem quite fond of this.

Why the hell was i mentioned? :rolleyes: I haven't even posted in this thread until now.

[Captain Steel]

Just some general questions / opinions:

First, what is a "cis woman"?

Second, as a male I don't see why a male would want to become female (except for the idea or fact that they were born with the wrong biology or the wrong gender and are thus "transgendered" - but since I really don't know the true nature of this condition, cannot offer an opinion on it).

Here's why converting from male to female seems a downgrade (from a male perspective, that is)...
Males have advantages. This is a societal fact that is sometimes unfortunate and unfair, yet true.
Aging is much easier on males. As we delapidate we are said to become more "distinguished, experienced, mature or rugged" looking. Whereas for woman, society does not treat their outward aging kindly. Women, unfortunately, become much less sexually desirable to the opposite sex beyond a certain age, while that same ratio does not generally apply to men.

But this aspect of looks & attractiveness is all cultural and superficial, while there is a more significant and internal biological change that women must endure (and I have no idea how artificial female hormones effect this aspect on a male body). Women must undergo menopause. "Male menopause" is a myth. Sure, men decline physically as they age, but, based on the individual's personal health, they can copulate and impregnate until they die. (Look at Tony Randall - he was impregnating his wife well into his late 70's!) Men can potentially remain potent, virile and retain the ability to fertilize to any age.

All this makes me follow Dr. Steve Brule's outlook - that if you have a pennis, just keep on it!

[Miss Vicky]

Cis means that your biological sex and your gender identity match. I am a cisfemale. You are a cismale.

[ShopkeeperTriumph]

I just don't buy that John McClane is actually a woman.

And you know what? I know for a fact that Yoda doesn't think he's really female, either. I'm sure we can add Omnizoa to the list of dissenters, as well.

We're people who think. Maybe I have no class... but I'm also someone who recognizes that he feels disturbed at the idea of a man putting female hormones into his body to grow boobs, when maybe he shouldn't. I actually care about people. You just wanna act cool and cheer anything on if everyone else is doing it.

I can't attack you for throwing out your opinions. I can, however, for you throwing other members under the bus when they clearly had no intent of doing so. They have every right to feel a certain way, but when you namedrop a few members in a topic dedicated to support just so you can prove "you're not alone," it really makes you come off as someone who really doesn't care about people, their privacy, and their willingness to put their opposing opinions aside for someone they consider a friend.

Your thoughts on trans people are also questionable. You say it's the "trendy" thing to do, which might possibly be why people are blindly doing it. Maybe we're all seeing it more because it's becoming more accepted. Maybe more, and more people aren't as terrified to do something about how they're feeling. But nah, I'm sure it's just because all of their friends are doing it. Boy's Dont Cry made it seem really cool, why not?

[Captain Steel]

Cis means that your biological sex and your gender identity match. I am a cisfemale. You are a cismale.

I learn something new everyday!
Seriously, I never heard this before (and I'm pretty hip to most of the latest, groovy, non-square stuff, dig?)

So without looking it up, what does the CIS stand for (assuming it's an acronym)?

Hmm... when I was young, calling a guy a "Sis-male" was fightin' words! ;)

[Dani8]

What MistressV said. It's the bits you're born with. I didnt know this term myself until I went to The Danish Girl board.

[Miss Vicky]

So without looking it up, what does the CIS stand for (assuming it's an acronym)?

That I don't know.

[Captain Steel]

What MistressV said. It's the bits you're born with. I didnt know this term myself until I went to The Danish Girl board.

Another reason to FINALLY watch that movie (still haven't gotten to it yet.)

[Dani8]

I thought it wqs a beautiful movie, Cap. Lots of straight guys on that board said they enjoyed it. Not a girlychck flic. If you've seen The King's Speech, it's the same tone. You know, you sort of get a bit choked up about the emotional pain someone is going through. Two really good movies IMO.

[Captain Steel]

Why the hell was i mentioned? :rolleyes: I haven't even posted in this thread until now.

You're just very popular - as revealed in the MoFo countdown! :)

[Captain Steel]

I thought it wqs a beautiful movie, Cap. Lots of straight guys on that board said they enjoyed it. Not a girlychck flic. If you've seen The King's Speech, it's the same tone. You know, you sort of get a bit choked up about the emotional pain someone is going through. Two really good movies IMO.

The King's Speech is one of my favorites!

[Dani8]

Maybe we're all seeing it more because it's becoming more accepted. Maybe more, and more people aren't as terrified to do something about how they're feeling.

I concur. i don't think it's simply a trend. I think trans people are finally feeling, exactly in this case for Kendra, that they can finally talk about this in the wider community with open minded, non judgmental people. Without being spoilery for Captain, there is a scene in The Danish Girl where you get an indication of how doctors treated trans people back then. not pleasant/downright horrifying. Things are still not perfect but slowly changing.

[Captain Steel]

A question (maybe Kendra can answer) are there any well-known regret stories from transexuals?
The "I would've kept on my pennis if only I'd known" or the "I miss being able to write my name in the snow!" type? Or the "I already had a verjina, I didn't need to make a new one!" stories?

Or would it be too politically incorrect to expose those? (Like those of some former homosexuals who say they actually did pray their gay away?)
From what I've heard, such accounts are kind of "verboten" and tramped down within the LGBTQ community.

[Dani8]

how does it impact on your life, SC, apart from the primordial kneejerk reaction to protecting your own bits which, believe it or not, I do understand. Kendra's body is Kendra's body - not yours. Kendra is not slicing off your cojones. And she may not elect for surgery down the track anyway. Some trans people don't feel the need for their own reasons. Some do.

[Miss Vicky]

There's a huge difference in the way you post things and the way Yoda does, Sexy. You are combative and aggressive (and yes, I'm well aware that my posts are often similarly combative) - which does not invite discussion but rather incites aggression in return. Yoda's posts are much more reasoned and calm and so the responses he gets are typically of a similar tone.

[jakubmike]

I just do not understand one thing.
If you are transgender it means that your biological body does not match your mind right?
But...here all we see is our minds (as in opinions, avatars etc.) How do you know I am actually a guy and not a girl who just wants to be adressed as a man? You don't, same way you do not know the color of my skin or how tall/short or fat/thin am I. You know only what I write. So...if I was transgender, if I truly felt that I am a man/woman/bulbasaur (sorry I just can't let go of this bulbasaur thing:o ) I would just said so. I would not say
I am an X trapped in Y body. Because quite honestly, you probably do not care about my body (which is a shame, cause you know, it is awesome body, pecks and all that;) ) .
So why not just say "BTW guys, I am actually a girl! " and call it a day? Sorry but this sounds strange for me, but then again I do not like to talk about my bussines in public, so... I guess it takes all kinds.

[Miss Vicky]

So why not just say "BTW guys, I am actually a girl! " and call it a day? Sorry but this sounds strange for me, but then again I do not like to talk about my bussines in public, so... I guess it takes all kinds.

Because McClane has been a member of this forum for 13 years and has posted many photos of herself from before coming to her realization. Just saying "BTW, I'm actually a girl!" would just cause confusion.

[Dani8]

You know what? I'm not thinking about myself and how it impacts my own life. I'm thinking about how it impacts the people who want to make this decision. I'm thinking about John McClane and how I hope he's not making a terrible mistake. What you guys don't wanna accept is that somewhere down the road, he may regret this whole thing, especially if he goes too far with it, or even not at all. He may not, but... I can't help but be concerned. I don't think he's a woman. It's like watching a dog run into a buffet restaurant and go to town on the human food. There's a chance it'll get sick.


OK that's fair enough and I appreciate your change of tone, matey. As for dwn the track, well I'm pretty sure Kendra has discussed that at length with her medical team. They dont just fly in blind.

[jakubmike]

Because McClane has been a member of this forum for 13 years and has posted many photos of herself from before coming to her realization. Just saying "BTW, I'm actually a girl!" would just cause confusion.
good old "tricked you! How did you liked photos of my cousin:rolleyes:" :D

[ShopkeeperTriumph]

You're talking to the wrong guy. I'm pretty new here. Hell, I seen more posts from you than him. So, who says who isn't really a factor to me. It still wouldn't if I was here since day one. I would've said the same thing if I saw him post the same exact things you did.

Of course, duh, it's peer pressure! Expensive peer pressure, with all of that feeling of dread that comes with it, like "is my Dad going to speak to me ever again I go through with this?" or "am I going to get beat up by the wrong person who doesn't get it?"

Again, there's nothing wrong with posting an opinion. But, would it kill you to not be an ass about it? Not once did you ask "say, Kendra, I don't get this, or I don't agree with this, maybe you could explain your thought process so I could gain more insight to your decision?" or something along those lines. But no. You cracked a joke, someone didn't like your joke, you got defensive, and went on a rant. This clearly is for support, and questions in regards to this big decision she's making. But all you want to do is say stuff like "you're not a woman. You're a man." Do you really think that's helpful advice? From what I see, you're making this about you, your opinions, and your opposition to what she's doing.

[Dani8]

Sorry but this sounds strange for me, but then again I do not like to talk about my bussines in public, so... I guess it takes all kinds.


Well the way I see it is kendra said she wanted to share the journey (whether out of curiosity or support) with people on the board who are interested. It might also be a diary. I dont think it's strange. She obviously felt safe enough to do so.

[Miss Vicky]

good old "tricked you! How did you liked photos of my cousin:rolleyes:" :D

In 13 years, Kendra has made real friends here and wanted to share her transition experience. I don't know why that's so difficult to grasp.

[Miss Vicky]

Anyway, Kendra - Have you filed for your name change yet? Is that a difficult/long process?

[jakubmike]

Well the way I see it is kendra said she wanted to share the journey (whether out of curiosity or support) with people on the board who are interested. It might also be a diary. I dont think it's strange. She obviously felt safe enough to do so.
Look, like I said before I am not judgemental about it, for me you are all nicks in the far away land of internet. For all I know you may all be highly trained group of cats bent on world domination (if that is the case please do not kill me, I am ready to bow down to our cat overlords) .
But still if we are talking about it and sharing our thoughts I have to say that I never got that. This whole "I discovered that I am gay at 35" or " I realized I am a woman at 27"... not to be rude but this is rather basic stuff.
You know who you are attracted to from the moment of your first erection, you know what your gender is from the moment you first look in the mirror and either nod in happiness or think that something is really off. So while I am not angry or hatefull I keep getting mental message "does not compute" . But again, what do I know, I am just a guy from a small town trying to live his life , if someone wants to be a man/woman and say it is what makes him/her happy... go for it.

[Dani8]

Look, like I said before I am not judgemental about it.

I din't think you were. You just seem curious. I was just giving my PoV on why Kendra might have decided to share on this board.

And i don't want to kill you. I like your avatar.

Didn't even. My typing has gone to hell.

[ash_is_the_gal]

I don't really want to coddle him.

That's what everyone does nowadays.

I know that may not seem nice, but... the man's trying to change himself into a woman. If John McClane can handle THAT kind of intensity, he can handle poor old Sexy Celebrity having a small little fit.
it's not even about coddling, really. you keep saying 'i don't believe he is a girl.' ok, why? other than your gut feeling? cause saying it over and over again isn't helpful for her. not without giving reasons. how do you expect her to respond to that? cause she's just gonna come back with her own life experiences and research. what have you got?

[Miss Vicky]

I know you're just asking, but you also said he might try the hormones and find that he doesn't like them. If that's possible, why worry about him changing his name already?

She said she already got the paperwork. I was just wondering if she's filed them yet.

[ShopkeeperTriumph]

I know you're just asking, but you also said he might try the hormones and find that he doesn't like them. If that's possible, why worry about him changing his name already?

See, that seems to be your problem. Someone asks a question, and you immediately just try to find any hypocrisy associated with their intentions.

[ShopkeeperTriumph]

Oh, pish. You're just looking to keep arguing with me. At least someone like Miss Vicky is keeping rather calm down. She's learning how to control me better.

Only because you're clearly looking for an argument. I definitely took the bait.

Sexy bait.

Still, shut up. You know we're all still laughing at you for your dumb Tom Hanks avatar.

[Dani8]

This was kendra's most recent post. Not pointing the finger at you, SC, but surely this was an indication she was feeling backed into a corner and that maybe you could dial it down? and once again, I'm not saying not to voice your opinion, but there's a way of going about it with tact.

Because at least you're being somewhat supportive in your joking and questions. SC is just being combative for no reason. That's why.

You have dialed down and I applaud you for that. Arguing amongst ourselves in here (I include myself in that) wont change what kendra is going through, either emotionally, or with the new intro of hormone therapy. Hormone therapy can take a bit to get used to at first, speaking from experience.

[Dani8]

.



I certainly think people believe they are

That's the important part, right?

[Dani8]

My question to you was polite and reasonable, as were all of my posts to you in this thread. Why are you being rabid in reply? Maybe your owner needs to update your distemper shots or give you a flea bath. If you want a pat, I am a dog lover so just ask for one.

[ShopkeeperTriumph]

I'm just gonna have to start insisting that I'm a dog around here. That I believe I am a dog.

All of my posts will be BARK, BARK, BARK!

Someone can give me a doghouse thread.... everyone can pretend I'm a dog. I'll come around and beg to be petted. You can leash me and take me for a walk. You can feed me. You can scratch my belly.

I'll do it. I'm starting to become convinced that I'm a dog..... WOOF!

what even

[Dani8]

I have no idea. It's not friday night drinkies yet.

[jakubmike]

I'm just gonna have to start insisting that I'm a dog around here. That I believe I am a dog.

All of my posts will be BARK, BARK, BARK!

Someone can give me a doghouse thread.... everyone can pretend I'm a dog. I'll come around and beg to be petted. You can leash me and take me for a walk. You can feed me. You can scratch my belly.

I'll do it. I'm starting to become convinced that I'm a dog..... WOOF!

Must you be a dog? I am cat person myself...

[Dani8]

I have a question for kendra, if she's still around.

I'll start with an example to let you know where I'm coming from. I have an aussie mate with chinese heritage called Michael. He's never been to China, nor have his parents. Michael identifies as a true blue aussie. If someone identifies him as a chinese aussie, he feels disrespected (some people don't mind, but he does).

You identify as a woman and have adopted a new name to reflect that. If someone continues to call you by the name your parents gave you at birth, does that offend you? I've always taken the approach it's disrespctful not to accept the new moniker and gender identifier. My step mother changed both names after she divorced my dad, and even though I think she's not worth my respect (long story) when I talk to her daughter or my nieces about her, I use her adopted name.

[ash_is_the_gal]

Because, basically, I don't really think anyone is truly the opposite gender of what they're born as. I certainly think people believe they are, and act like they are, but I think that at the end of the day, there's men and there's women, and then there's people who wanna be whatever they want.

okay so if not an issue gender identity, what? and 2 more questions: what are you basing your assumptions on? how much research have you done yourself?

It's like when I sign on as Dorothy Michaels, I may be acting like a 50/60 year old woman, but you know that underneath all of that, I'm still Sexy Celebrity.

if you think you wanting different online personas for fun is the same thing as JohnMcClane being transgender, then you aren't listening

I've got the fact that I know none of that may really matter. Not that her life experiences don't matter, but it doesn't mean he/she is thinking correctly about him/herself.

and you haven't really given her anything to respond to, other than what you "think" - without giving reasons why - or even alternatives to what you think might be happening, if it isn't an issue of gender identity.

bursting through a thread wall like the Koolaid guy proclaiming BUT YOU AREN'T REALLY A WOMAN BECAUSE I THINK YOU AREN'T isn't really very helpful or thoughtful, and why you think everyone in the thread should stop and argue with you about it is kinda baffling when you haven't even given much of an argument. gut feelings aren't plausible arguments. it kinda makes you look like a troll, actually.

I'm just gonna have to start insisting that I'm a dog around here. That I believe I am a dog.

All of my posts will be BARK, BARK, BARK!

Someone can give me a doghouse thread.... everyone can pretend I'm a dog. I'll come around and beg to be petted. You can leash me and take me for a walk. You can feed me. You can scratch my belly.

I'll do it. I'm starting to become convinced that I'm a dog..... WOOF!

it's posts like these that really show how much you care about being respectful of her feelings

[John McClane]

Matt, I have a question: You mention that, if you were tested, you think your testosterone levels might be low. I know someone who officially has low levels (but not horrendously low -- he's just on medications, etc.), and I see what it does to a man.

Had you considered that perhaps going the route of adding testosterone rather than estrogen might help? It seems a less extreme solution, all things being equal (which I know they're not). This really is just a question that hit me when I read your post about thinking you probably have low testosterone.The primary reason why I didn't consider taking testosterone is that chemical does not match my internal gender identification. I can't honestly ever remembering sitting around wanting facial hair or a deeper voice or foul body odor. And then when those things did start happening I found myself freaking out internally. But I didn't know why until now.

I'm pretty well swamped with site work this week, but I'll just say that MattJohn asked me about this privately awhile ago, and what we said is between us. But I don't think there's any mutual exclusivity between caring about someone and being skeptical of some of their decisions, particularly life-altering ones.

I don't subscribe to the notion that caring about someone means supporting anything they do. Sometimes it means disagreeing with them or asking difficult questions. It would be easier to never contradict, never risk their disapproval, but I don't think that's what caring about someone actually looks like, and it's not how MattJohn and I have ever approached the many things in our lives we've discussed over the years.I think it's fair to say that Chris and I are going to disagree about a LOT more things than we agree on. But rather than butt heads about it when focus on what we do agree on and give mutual respect when we don't. It's what adults do, ya know?

Some people can be happy being transgender their whole life. If you're going to make THAT big of a decision, you better be **** sure.

But this transgender business is becoming trendy and I'm not convinced everyone is right for it. Nor am I even convinced that all of these doctors and psychologists are sure of what they're doing to people. There are doctors out there giving little kids "blockers" to keep them from going through puberty so they won't develop adult characteristics of the sex they were born as. It's insane that young children are going through mad scientist experiments at such a young age just because they think they're not the right sex. When I was a little kid, I often felt like a girl in a boy's body myself. If I was a kid in 2017 and I had such a progressive parent, they might tell me, "IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE TRANSGENDER! YOU NEED TO CHANGE! You need to start taking this and this so you won't become A MAN!"

And you know what? I grew up and I like being a man a lot (for the most part). No way in Hell am I gonna cut off my genitals and become a fake woman. It would have been nice to have been born a woman (straight guys are beyond hotter than gay guys, I don't care what you think), but I wasn't born a woman. Nature made me this way. Like so many other things in life, I CAN'T ALWAYS GET MY WAY.

But we live in a time period now where people think they can have ANYTHING THEY WANT! Feeling a little less masculine? Ever thought of being a girl? IT'S OKAY, LET'S TRANSGENDERIZE YOU!

I have warned John McClane that this could all be a very big mistake. But he seems to be going through with it. In all honesty, I don't care if people want to have sex changes. I'm not against it. But personally, I'm not convinced they're actually the sex they believe they are in their head. I'm not convinced they actually just have a "brain of the opposite sex in the wrong body." The LGBT movement wants acceptance. They want to prove people are born this way. They want to prove there's a gay gene... that people are born transgender.... all of that. Then, they think, they can shove all of this proof in the faces of religious people and bigots and say, "HA HA! YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE BABY, I WAS BORN THIS WAY!"

You know what? The doctors aren't on this forum. And even if they are, I have every right to say what I want to say. That's kind of how the world, you know, works. Everyone's supposed to have a voice. If your voice is wrong, it's wrong. But if your voice is right, it might change the world. For the better.

So here I am. Speaking up. DEAL WITH IT!I love how it's always the man's job to tell women things. "You can't do this, you aren't good enough, you don't honestly think that, I think you're mistaken, are you sure, etc. etc." :rolleyes:

What makes a woman a woman? A vagina? XX chromosomes? Because I assure you that is not what makes a woman.

Anyway, Kendra - Have you filed for your name change yet? Is that a difficult/long process?Not yet. I may wait a couple months before doing so. If for no other reason than to cut down on confusion at work.

You identify as a woman and have adopted a new name to reflect that. If someone continues to call you by the name your parents gave you at birth, does that offend you? I've always taken the approach it's disrespctful not to accept the new moniker and gender identifier. My step mother changed both names after she divorced my dad, and even though I think she's not worth my respect (long story) when I talk to her daughter or my nieces about her, I use her adopted name.Not really, no. I like my first name, which is why I'm keeping it as my middle name. And one day I may look considerably more feminine than I do now, in which case they're just going to show their idiocy by calling me a he.

[Gatsby]

Classic SC, not realizing that his bickering with other members achieves absolutely nothing.

[John McClane]

I understand where SC is coming from: I really do. The idea of one less penis for him to "possibly" hop up and down on is frightening to him. Or perhaps there's some merit to that "what you vehemently deny you are" theory, in which case he's just pissed all this information wasn't available when he was younger.

But you know what? I don't think any of that because I have no idea what he is thinking, nor do I care.

[John McClane]

Oh give me a break. Yeah, and a stupid therapist hears this reason and decides you're not really a man because of this? Give me a break. This is the same thing the transgender individual I spoke of earlier felt -- the one who had low testosterone, which Austruck brought up might be what you're suffering from. Didn't like the fact that he was getting body hair.

"I can't honestly remember sitting around wanting facial hair or a deeper voice or foul body odor."

How is this a requirement to be a man? All guys sit around wishing for facial hair and a deeper voice and four body odor? It's as if you must be transgender simply because you didn't have dreams and wishes of getting certain adult male characteristics. Give me a damn break. Then maybe all men should dream of going to the gym and bulking up and getting big muscles. How do you explain the men who are skinny armed and don't go to the gym and are fine with being weak? Are they secretly transgender, too?Hey man, don't take it out on me. I was just running with your logic.

[John McClane]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/me3.gif

[TONGO]

I understand where SC is coming from: I really do. The idea of one less penis for him to "possibly" hop up and down on is frightening to him. Or perhaps there's some merit to that "what you vehemently deny you are" theory, in which case he's just pissed all this information wasn't available when he was younger.

But you know what? I don't think any of that because I have no idea what he is thinking, nor do I care.

:rotfl: ROTFLMFAO!!!! :rotfl:

Awesome :up:

[OdumC]

As long as you're not hurting kids or animals I'm cool with anything anyone chooses....

Life's too short to live for other peoples expectations. do what you want to do and be happy.

Hope you're getting all the support you need from family and friends.

[Dani8]

Not really, no. I like my first name, which is why I'm keeping it as my middle name. And one day I may look considerably more feminine than I do now, in which case they're just going to show their idiocy by calling me a he.

Thanks for your reply. Happy Valentine's day, hon. I hope there's someone special for you to have date night with.

[Dani8]

You know what? I don't know why I'm in here, then. Screw you. I won't care about you anymore myself. You're not worth it. Bye.

Have you ever been diagnosed with an empathy disorder? I'm just wondering because you certainly come across that way. If you were so horrified by the thought of a fellow human transitioning you were only in the thread to gawk and ridicule, nd impose your own feelings of self worth which are obviously tightly contained within your own genitals. Kendra has behaved with dignity in the face of your finger pointing.

[Dani8]

Thanks for your reply. Happy Valentine's day, hon. I hope there's someone special for you to have date night with.


ETA did you see my question about The Danish Girl. Would love your thoughts if you've seen it.

[John McClane]

ETA did you see my question about The Danish Girl. Would love your thoughts if you've seen it.Yes, I've seen it. Parts of it were OK but overall I thought it was a fairly weak film. It had too many missed opportunities to explore deeper issues and give more development to the characters.

[Dani8]

I'm actually wanting to track down their diaries. I havent read the book yet so dont know if that goes into more detail or not.

Ewww looks like I stuffed up when I post4d that question. Didnt mean to post to myself. I meant to edit. need more tea.

[TONGO]

Have you ever been diagnosed with an empathy disorder? I'm just wondering because you certainly come across that way. If you were so horrified by the thought of a fellow human transitioning you were only in the thread to gawk and ridicule, nd impose your own feelings of self worth which are obviously tightly contained within your own genitals. Kendra has behaved with dignity in the face of your finger pointing.

Hes probably got Munchaosan Syndrome. The less attention given to him, the better. He will say or do anything to get attention.

Kendra. Are you going to change your forum name after its all said and done JMc?

[John McClane]

Well, here's an update: I'm on my third day of HRT, and I'm already starting to notice changes. Soften skin, downstairs equipment not perking up as much, and a change in my body odor. That last change has made me so happy, and I can't wait for it to continue to change. That's easily the most important change for me: my stink. After identifying to myself that I am transgender I became acutely aware of how my body odor affects my well being: there have been times when I became viciously nauseous from the smell. I'm starting to feel a little calmer in my head, too, so HRT is having the added benefit of helping with my ADHD. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I will be able to stop my ADHD medication but that's a possibility to which I'd be open. :)

[John McClane]

Kendra. Are you going to change your forum name after its all said and done JMc?Nope, I'll be J.McClane for life!! "Yippee-kiya-mutha****er!!!!" ;)

[Dani8]

Wow that was fast. i started hormone therapy at the beginning of last year and dont recall my reactions happening so quickly, but that was a long time ago and a lot had been going on so i probably just forgot, or maybe it just wasnt a dramatic change. Well done.

[Dani8]

You don't get it. It's not disagreeing that everyone seems to be having the issue with. It's your attitude and tone. Twice now you've had a toddler tantrum and said you were done. Make up your mind, lad. Yesterday you dialled it down but couldn't stay down, you had to come back and say to your 'friend' Screw You. What the hell, mate? Yes you most certainly do come across to me as lacking empathy, and not just in this thread.

[John McClane]

Well, testosterone is responsible for body funk and the spiro I'm taking is blocking it, so that should go pretty quick.

[John McClane]

A simple, quick fix world at work.:rolleyes:

[Dani8]

Are you always sensitive to smell? When I was going through chemo I could smell it coming out of my pores. One of my nurses recommended bicarb for the armpits rather than chemicals in deodorant. No one else could smell it but I was very self conscious. Maybe give that a try until it all calms down. totally natural. Also good for giving your teefies a polish and making your breath sweet, but dont do it every day because it can wear down your enamel. Bi carb - nature's little miracle.

[Captain Steel]

Yes, I've seen it. Parts of it were OK but overall I thought it was a fairly weak film. It had too many missed opportunities to explore deeper issues and give more development to the characters.

The Danish Girl: I'd have to agree. I ended up feeling more sad for Gerda than anything else - she just seemed to continually get the short end of the stick (no pun intended).

Not sure how to take the aspect that the film seemed to present Einar / Lili's case almost as a Multiple Personality Disorder as much or more so than a transgender issue (very evident in the scene where Gerda is asking Lili if she can speak to Einar, and Lili refuses to relinquish control of Einar's body for Einar to speak). And people with MPD often have alternate personalities with different genders. Lili even speaks of thoughts to "kill" Einar - which is another common symptom of MPD - where a more aggressive personality seeks dominance over the others and even contemplates ways to destroy them. MPD still is not classified as a lifestyle or orientation, but as a serious mental illness that falls under Schizophrenia.

So I got the impression that the film wasn't really "helping" transgendered people by presenting Lili as a case of potential MPD. It's sad ending almost made it feel like a warning film. Good performances, though, by the leads.

[John McClane]

Nah, I'm only sensitive to smell at certain times: for instance, early in the morning.

[Dani8]

Nice review, Cap. I'm not sure if Hopper or the author of the fictionalised account were implying Dissociative Personality Disorder or depicting how trans people were dealt with by doctors back then (thus the two scenes which I found pretty horrifying 1. the diagnosis and 2. the shock therapy), but I did see a trans person on TDG board say it is a mental disorder in his opinion. that is not my opinion, just recounting.

The end I found sad but beautiful. Not a downer ending.

Reading about them after the movie what was really sad was Gerda ended up marrying a scam artist who diddled her and she ended up living a broke, lonely existence, painting postcards. Tragic.

[Dani8]

Nah, I'm only sensitive to smell at certain times: for instance, early in the morning.

hey have you ever heard the saying 'go and blow the stink off yourself'? We all wake up with bed smell. I say it to my dogs and my husband, or I will say to him 'I'm going to the bathroom to blow the stink of myself'. That'[s normal.

[John McClane]

The Danish Girl: I'd have to agree. I ended up feeling more sad for Gerda than anything else - she just seemed to continually get the short end of the stick (no pun intended).

Not sure how to take the aspect that the film seemed to present Einar / Lili's case almost as a Multiple Personality Disorder as much or more so than a transgender issue (very evident in the scene where Gerda is asking Lili if she can speak to Einar, and Lili refuses to relinquish control of Einar's body for Einar to speak). And people with MPD often have alternate personalities with different genders. Lili even speaks of thoughts to "kill" Einar - which is another common symptom of MPD - where a more aggressive personality seeks dominance over the others and even contemplates ways to destroy them. MPD still is not classified as a lifestyle or orientation, but as a serious mental illness that falls under Schizophrenia.

So I got the impression that the film wasn't really "helping" transgendered people by presenting Lili as a case of potential MPD. It's sad ending almost made it feel like a warning film. Good performances, though, by the leads.I whole heartedly agree. The film is a fine example of SC's opinion that "transgender" is hip/popular/fashionable at the moment: big companies cashing in on the movement. But the idea that people are transitioning because it's the chic/cool thing to do? Man, pass whatever strain he's smoking on.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/cheech.gif

[John McClane]

hey have you ever heard the saying 'go and blow the stink off yourself'? We all wake up with bed smell. I say it to my dogs and my husband, or I will say to him 'I'm going to the bathroom to blow the stink of myself'. That'[s normal.
You asked if I was sensitive to smell. I wasn't referring to just my body odor there. There's been many times over my life that I've blown chunks or gotta close to it because of something I smelled: perfume, food, etc.

[Dani8]

yeah don't worry about that, kendra. A couple of us debunked that one.

[Dani8]

You asked if I was sensitive to smell. I wasn't referring to just my body odor there. There's been many times over my life that I've blown chunks or gotta close to it because of something I smelled: perfume, food, etc.

I understand. It's happened to me at the gym when someone stinks of bathing in perfume, tobacco, or sour BO. Makes me want to vomit. And these days, despite being a coffee addict, when I see my local barista in the morning and the coffee grounds are extra strong I practically faint. Really hits my senses.

[John McClane]

Oh God, nothing was worse than back in college when the local coffee house would roast coffee beans. Ugh. :sick:

[Dani8]

When I lived in the country the coffee house under the cinema would roast coffee on a friday and saturday night. Jaysus. Get me outta here. I sold my house and moved back to Sydney.

[Captain Steel]

hey have you ever heard the saying 'go and blow the stink off yourself'? We all wake up with bed smell. I say it to my dogs and my husband, or I will say to him 'I'm going to the bathroom to blow the stink of myself'. That'[s normal.

I recall that as a saying from my parents' generation - usually referring to going for a ride in the car in good weather, with the windows open or top down. "C'mon, let's go for a ride - blow the stink off yourself."

[Dani8]

I love the saying.

[Dani8]

How many times are you going to stomp off with a scarf flick then return, matey?

Scarf flick

http://68.media.tumblr.com/2ef926ed00e9b41f7c2695d73f34e265/tumblr_mibheoxnVr1rgs9f3o1_500.gif

[Dani8]

Lady, I am just fine being a man. Does anyone honestly think I'd be happy transitioning to a woman? .

Did anyone ever suggest otherwise? You just like being obtuse and turning everything into a Me Me Me thing.

[Dani8]

Gratuitous bump for kendra. Re that article, I will say that if any Mofos want to come on down for mardi gras, too late at this time to book a hotel for a vantage point. I'm pretty sure they book out a few years in advance. It's a very big tourist attraction.

http://www.momondo.com.au/inspiration/sydney-mardi-gras-guide/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-paid&utm_campaign=PPB%7CAU00003-2%7Csydney-mardi-gras-guide-2%7C&source=disp-Facebook-General.blog-promo#Ceef76vlcvGZFIk8.97

[John McClane]

Update: I had Yoda close this thread because he felt--respectfully--that the thread might begin to be a bother to *ME* (i.e. he cared about my feelings). At first I disagreed when he offered to close it but it did get to be too much so I asked him to close it.

So basically, if you're not here to support me or ask questions in a respectful manner, then I'm just gunna ignore ya. Mmk? :)

[John McClane]

Moved from The Mofo Support Group:

I think the greatest change thus far is feeling more in tune emotionally. For instance, I had supressed my emotions for so long that I didn't feel anything outside of happiness or anger: I used to cry a LOT when I was younger but "boys don't cry" so I had basically lost it. And what was bad about that was it made me feel dead but I don't feel that way anymore: I cry, I giggle, and I feel alive.

[John McClane]

Moved from The Mofo Support Group:

Well, I just finished my first month of HRT (hormone replacement therapy), and I honestly can say that I haven't felt this happy since my senior year of college (back in 2011). Things are going really well and the stuff that has already started changing has done wonders to relieve my gender dysphoria.

My skin & hair has gotten softer and my body is producing considerably less sebum and sweat; my pee is starting to smell different; and the little bit of muscle I had before starting HRT has started to get mushy, which means I've gotten noticeably weaker.

Using spoiler tags for the more intimate stuff, so if you don't want to read that stuff just stop here:

My chest has started developing but it's not easily noticed, and it's primarily my nipples and areolas that have started to change. When feeling my chest, though, I can tell that the muscle has gotten squishy and there is the beginnings of development. It will probably be quite awhile before my chest starts any type of jiggling. :D

So erections went away fairly quick and it's pretty much impossible for me to get one now unless I put a lot of effort into it, which is perfectly fine by mean because I f***ing hated it I got one. The whole gential area has greater sensitivity and it is softer, too: testicles have gotten jelly like and spend most of their time up in my inguinal canal or just below it. Yay for no more low hanging!! :D

[John McClane]

Moved from The Mofo Support Group:

John, this is just a technical question, but didn't you start a thread devoted to your personal journey? It was a thread I found quite interesting and I'm just wondering why you didn't post this there? I'll tell ya why...

I feel like that post I just read about Kendra's transformations belongs in the Sci-Fi Countdown thread.

Aren't your hand muscles getting all mushy, though?

http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/images/smilies/yeahthat.gif

Basically, the thread got hijacked/out of hand/off topic/crazy...so I had Yoda close it.

[Dani8]

I have a question and if this is too personal, no problem if you prefer to not answer. This came up on the danish girl board a while back and made me curious. As a trans woman how do you identify your sexuality eg are you attracted to men, women or both (or even neither) and how do you identify that? eg if a trans woman is attracted to women does she regard herself as a lesbian?

I hope that makes sense.

[Little Devil]

I have a question and if this is too personal, no problem if you prefer to not answer. This came up on the danish girl board a while back and made me curious. As a trans woman how do you identify your sexuality eg are you attracted to men, women or both (or even neither) and how do you identify that? eg if a trans woman is attracted to women does she regard herself as a lesbian?

I hope that makes sense.You know what? One thing that always boggled me was when men feel attracted to other men that dress and act like women.

I would ask my self "wouldn't it be a lot easier to just feel attracted to a woman?" but it isn't as simple as that.

[Dani8]

You know what? One thing that always boggled me was when men feel attracted to other men that dress and act like women.

I would ask my self "wouldn't it be a lot easier to just feel attracted to a woman?" but it isn't as simple as that.

There's a scene in Danish Girl where a gay guy hits on Lili (the trans woman). It was not Lili's thing. She didn't identify as a gay man.

[John McClane]

I have a question and if this is too personal, no problem if you prefer to not answer. This came up on the danish girl board a while back and made me curious. As a trans woman how do you identify your sexuality eg are you attracted to men, women or both (or even neither) and how do you identify that? eg if a trans woman is attracted to women does she regard herself as a lesbian?

I hope that makes sense.
I honestly think it's better to think of that aspect in different words than homosexual & heterosexual because it gets too confusing.

This is a better way to think about it: we lean towards philogyny (love of women) or philandry (love of men). And honestly, I could go either way. Love is love.

[Dani8]

I honestly think it's better to think of that aspect in different words than homosexual & heterosexual because it gets too confusing.

This is a better way to think about it: I lean towards philogyny (love of women) or philandry (love of men). And honestly, I could go either way. Love is love.

Thanks for your answer, Kendra. I hope you find someone special to share your life with.

[Miss Vicky]

eg if a trans woman is attracted to women does she regard herself as a lesbian?

I suppose it depends on the individual, but the answer to that is probably yes.

I became friends with a woman on another forum who is married to a transwoman. Both partners identify as lesbian.

[Dani8]

I suppose it depends on the individual, but the answer to that is probably yes.

I became friends with a woman on another forum who is married to a transwoman. Both partners identify as lesbian.

In the movie this topic wasnt touched upon, but after reading about the rel couple I think Lili identified as a straight woman because she had a boyfriend she wanted to have a child with. Beautiful movie if you havent seen it.

[Dani8]

You know what? One thing that always boggled me was when men feel attracted to other men that dress and act like women.

I would ask my self "wouldn't it be a lot easier to just feel attracted to a woman?" but it isn't as simple as that.

I had a think about this before answering further. From strictly my point of view, comes down to a meeting of two minds. Bryan Fuller, a gay man, explored this in Hannibal. He talked about the idea of pure love, and a platonic love between two straight men. Hannibal was probably fluid, but Will was a straight man, yet they met on a deep plane of existence.

Probably not making sense but when Kendra said 'love is love' it got me thinking.

hey look at me, I'm hijacking back to movies s examples. Go me. :)

[Dani8]

I hve another question so thanks for allowing us to share this personal stuff with you. Is the hormone treatment enough on it's own to develop breasts or will you need to possibly consider implants down the track?

Also, not really relevant but I;m curious about your medical system compared to ours. Does private insurance cover any of your bills (both medical and the psychiatric review you need to go through)? I don't think either private or government covers it here but I;m not 100% sure on that. I think I saw somewhere recently it's only covered in one scandinavian country at the moment.

Final nosy question, are the bills expensive and if so, would you consider going to somewhere like Thailand to have medical procedures done?

[Captain Steel]

Update: I had Yoda close this thread because he felt--respectfully--that the thread might begin to be a bother. At first I disagreed when he offered to close it but it did get to be too much so I asked him to close it.

This thread now serves as a public service, because it lets us know that Yoda (or other moderator... but c'mon, is there really any other moderator? :)) can re-open a thread that's been closed.

So basically, if you're not here to support me or ask questions in a respectful manner, then I'm just gunna ignore ya. Mmk? :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3699976496/f857ddf878d8982b63402c0696182faf.jpeg

Sounds like a plan, man!

[John McClane]

Well, the difference here is I was the one who made the thread, I was the one to say close it, and I was also the one to say open it. So like...context.

[Captain Steel]

Well, the difference here is I was the one who made the thread, I was the one to say close it, and I was also the one to say open it. So like...context.

Understood. But I didn't know if it could be done at all - like, for all I knew, if they get closed maybe they get deleted or what not. Know what I mean?

[John McClane]

I hve another question so thanks for allowing us to share this personal stuff with you. Is the hormone treatment enough on it's own to develop breasts or will you need to possibly consider implants down the track?Yes, HRT will be enough for me to develop breasts and, as a matter of fact, it has already started. But it's anybody's guess as far as what size I will eventually end up growing.

Also, not really relevant but I;m curious about your medical system compared to ours. Does private insurance cover any of your bills (both medical and the psychiatric review you need to go through)? I don't think either private or government covers it here but I;m not 100% sure on that. I think I saw somewhere recently it's only covered in one scandinavian country at the moment.

Final nosy question, are the bills expensive and if so, would you consider going to somewhere like Thailand to have medical procedures done?I have good insurance, so yes, this stuff is covered. My prescriptions only cost a few dollars a month, and I'm using a flexible spending account to fund any out of pocket costs.

I don't know where I stand on surgery just yet. And yeah, Thailand is the best place to get that bottom stuff done because they're cheap but also because they are the best at what they do.

[Dani8]

Yes, HRT will be enough for me to develop breasts and, as a matter of fact, it has already started. But it's anybody's guess as far as what size I will eventually end up growing.

I have good insurance, so yes, this stuff is covered. My prescriptions only cost a few dollars a month, and I'm using a flexible spending account to fund any out of pocket costs.

I don't know where I stand on surgery just yet. And yeah, Thailand is the best place to get that bottom stuff done because they're cheap but also because they are the best at what they do.


Amazing that synthetic hormones work that fast, isnt it.

Wow I;m surprised at how little your scripts cost. My HRT is about 40 bucks month, and I have to take those suckers for 10 years. Good for you, though.

As for Thailand, yeah wow some of the most beautiful women I've ever seen were trans women in Bangkok.

I see what Cap is saying up above. I also thought closed threads got nuked. I'm very happy this one was still alive and Yoda could retrieve it. It's very informative.

[John McClane]

Amazing that synthetic hormones work that fast, isnt it.I actually take a form of estrogen that's derived from plants so it's not synthetic per se.

[MacabrePony]

So it sounds like you didn't know your gender for a while. What made you realise it?

[Dani8]

So it sounds like you didn't know your gender for a while. What made you realise it?

That's a good question, pony.

[John McClane]

So it sounds like you didn't know your gender for a while. What made you realise it?

That's a good question, pony.Yes, it's an excellent question.

Well, I honestly think I had an inkling of it back in high school but just refused to admit it and went about repressing the feeling. I live in a conservative/hicksville area so when I was growing up the LGBT community was always presented to me as sinful/wrong/deviant. Obviously, this didn't help things.

Flash forward to college where I learned a lot, but the most important thing I learned was that the ways and things I had been taught before college were not all entirely true/correct. This would eventually help me in coming to my "awakening."

It was all down hill from there: I started working at a hotel in an area that almost exclusively hired men (tech services), and it wasn't until I switched to housekeeping, which was almost exclusively female, that I was able to bare going to work. I also got messed up with the wrong crowd and got into drugs pretty hard, so I had several experiences during that time that just reinforced what I was trying to suppress; and finally, I attended one semester in the co-ed master's program at an all-girls school (I was the only guy in my classes), and it was then that everything started to feel right. It was during that time (back in 2014) that I went out and got my navel pierced, and the rest after that has been history. This was also around the same time as Jenner's big reveal and the explosion of transgender related news.

[Dani8]

What's your view on Angelina Jolie's child taking trans drugs pre puberty, Kendra? I don't have a view on this at all, just curious what you think. If it had been available at that age for you, do you think it would have made life easier, or do you not agree with pre pubescents being given the script at all?

[John McClane]

What's your view on Angelina Jolie's child taking trans drugs pre puberty, Kendra? I don't have a view on this at all, just curious what you think. If it had been available at that age for you, do you think it would have made life easier, or do you not agree with pre pubescents being given the script at all?
That's between them and their child, and I'm not sure where you read that their child is taking anything. I haven't seen anything to that effect.

As far as making life easier, I honestly don't think this process is easy at any age.

[Dani8]

That's between them and their child

I agree, and their specialists.

It was all the buzz on the imdb board at the time of the marriage breakdown. People were speculating that was the reason for it, but you know, celebrity stans like making poop up from headlines in gutter press. They dont even bother reading the 'articles' and when they do they're incapable of reading between the lines. I'll see if I can find an article about it.

As an aside, without a doubt the worst boards on imdb were actor's individual boards.

[John McClane]

I agree, and their specialists.

It was all the buzz on the imdb board at the time of the marriage breakdown. People were speculating that was the reason for it, but you know, celebrity stans like making poop up from headlines in gutter press. They dont even bother reading the 'articles' and when they do they're incapable of reading between the lines. I'll see if I can find an article about it.

As an aside, without a doubt the worst boards on imdb were actor's individual boards.Well, the people blaming the marriage breakdown are idiots because their kid has been wearing boys clothes since like...oh...forever.

[Dani8]

Stans ARE idiots. They live in faeryland.

Nothing here about hormone blockers but a bit on John


https://mic.com/articles/106930/what-our-fascination-with-john-jolie-pitt-says-about-us#.zig9Z3dXP

[Captain Steel]

John, since you're undergoing hormone therapy I'm wondering what your stance is on injecting hormone blockers into pre-pubescent teens who claim they are confused about their birth gender and their, as yet undeveloped, sexuality?

And the fact that their parents will start these experimental medical treatments (the full effects of which are still not known) to belay the natural onset of puberty based simply on a pre-adolescent's say so at a time when their children's bodies have not matured biologically, when their brains are in a natural growth mode and when they are intellectually & emotionally immature regarding biology, sexuality and sociology?

[Dani8]

John, since you're undergoing hormone therapy I'm wondering what your stance is on injecting hormone blockers into pre-pubescent teens who claim they are confused about their birth gender and their, as yet undeveloped, sexuality?

And the fact that their parents will start these experimental medical treatments (the full effects of which are still not known) to belay the natural onset of puberty based simply on a pre-adolescent's say so at a time when their children's bodies have not matured biologically, when their brains are in a natural growth mode and when they are intellectually & emotionally immature regarding biology, sexuality and sociology?

Kendra has already answered that, cap.

[Captain Steel]

Kendra has already answered that, cap.

I'll have to go back and review.

I guess you can tell my stance on it based on my wording of the question. And it all has to do with age (as do some many issues that involve biology and sexuality).

I remember watching this documentary with Chaz Bono about "transgendered" kids.

Psychologically, it all seemed pretty benign - a place for kids to go talk about their feelings and who or what they want to be when they grow up - until the show revealed that Chaz was championing a program where parents were pumping their pre-adolescent children with experimental drugs at an extremely vulnerable & crucial time; when the children's bodies were trying to develop naturally - and drugs that would stop them from developing in a normal, natural, healthy way! I couldn't believe it! I thought I'd fallen into some sick episode of the Twilight Zone.

Could you imagine injecting your child with a drug that would not allow them to grow or develop naturally? Or that would not allow them to develop intellectually because you halted the hormones that allow their brain to grow and mature at a normal rate? This was horrifying - this was like Dr. Mengele stuff!

I can't believe that instead of social service authorities intervening to remove these children from parents that were subjecting them to medical experiments, they were making a documentary saying that because little Billy likes to play dress up some time at an age where all kids are exploring and unsure about who they are or want to be, we have to start injecting him with drugs that may impair, disfigure or deform him for the rest of his life.

[Dani8]

Yeah I asked about the Jolie-Pitt trans child Shiloh/John. I dont know what to think of it but tend to lean in the direction of being child abuse. I'm not sure. Will have to talk to the shrinks in my family about what they think.

[Captain Steel]

Yeah I asked about the Jolie-Pitt trans child Shiloh/John. I dont know what to think of it but tend to lean in the direction of being child abuse. I'm not sure. Will have to talk to the shrinks in my family about what they think.

Injecting children who are not physically ill with experimental drugs that halt their natural growth because it's some kind of PC "trend" is beyond child abuse. It's sick, concentration-camp-level stuff. These parents need to be sterilized so they never reproduce again and have their children removed from them to be put in safe foster homes.
Yet there are TV shows praising these parents - inhuman monsters who would experiment on their own children? What kind of world are we living in?

[Dani8]

Thinking more on it, and I;m glad I asked kendra because it really got me thinking, I don't agree with male or female circumcision either. If a minor reaches adulthood and decides they want it done, OK, but I think parents making the decision for a child is mutilation. Pierced ears? Yes I know that's a bad comparison and despite asking my mother if I could have it done when I ws about 10, I've changed my attitude to it. So the hormone blockers for pre pubescent children I think I have decided no. Let them dress how they want, style their hair how they want, change their name, but elective medical intervention I;m not in favour of for minors.

[Dani8]

because it's some kind of PC "trend"

I wouldnt go that far. I dont see it as trendy or becoming trendy but fringedweller people like Jolie thinking it best for the child to decide. The one who rubbed me up the wrong way was that photographer friend of Amber Heard's who started a movement for kids. Not about medical intervention but gender fluidity. The formative years are complex enough without this thing shoved in kids' faces. See if I can remember his/her name and website.

[Dani8]

This person. Cant find his/her website for kids (and to be honest, he/she still rubs me up the wrong way so I stopped looking)

iO Tillett Wright has photographed 2,000 people who consider themselves somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum — and asked many of them: Can you assign a percentage to how gay or straight you are? Most people, it turns out, consider themselves to exist in the gray areas of sexuality, not 100% gay or straight. Which presents a real problem when it comes to discrimination: Where do you draw the line?

[John McClane]

John, since you're undergoing hormone therapy I'm wondering what your stance is on injecting hormone blockers into pre-pubescent teens who claim they are confused about their birth gender and their, as yet undeveloped, sexuality?

And the fact that their parents will start these experimental medical treatments (the full effects of which are still not known) to belay the natural onset of puberty based simply on a pre-adolescent's say so at a time when their children's bodies have not matured biologically, when their brains are in a natural growth mode and when they are intellectually & emotionally immature regarding biology, sexuality and sociology?

Injecting children who are not physically ill with experimental drugs that halt their natural growth because it's some kind of PC "trend" is beyond child abuse. It's sick, concentration-camp-level stuff. These parents need to be sterilized so they never reproduce again and have their children removed from them to be put in safe foster homes.
Yet there are TV shows praising these parents - inhuman monsters who would experiment on their own children? What kind of world are we living in?Yeah, I'd say that's a gross overreaction to a complex issue.

I'm firmly in the "don't make it a big deal, but wait and see" camp, which for most kids is the right thing to do. However, there are clear examples (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3330380/Mother-eight-year-old-transgender-girl-reveals-hid-knives-scissors-feared-child-cut-penis-began-living-female.html) where it's the worst thing that can be done for the child, and they should be put on hormone blockers at the onset of puberty so they have the extra time to figure themselves out.

But there's something you fail to realize and that is modern society/technological advancement has actually accelerated the onset of puberty in the developed world. It's not unheard of for girls to get their first period at 8 or 9, and it is those exact cases that instigated the development of hormone blocker usage in kids. So first, it should be recognized that the chemicals themselves were originally created with a legitimate medical use in mind. They are not the invention of some group of mad scientists who want to experiment on kids.

I sorta get the whole "outrage" you feel on the issue but, in all honesty, damn near every kid alive today is a walking medical experiment just from growing up in the developed world. I don't see any reason why we need to make it harder for them.

But that's just my 2 cents. :)

[Dani8]

Just out of curiosity, re the hormone blockers reversible? I think from the Angelina perspective she's more pushing for surgery from what I saw yesterday. I think that's demented for someone so young, but I'm not the mother and am not privy to what their doctors and shrinks have said.

[Dani8]

Well, as I have noted from my countless "Angelina Jolie has removed this and that" threads - removing her breasts, removing her fallopian tubes, you name it. It wouldn't surprise me if that woman was okay with the idea that we didn't have bodies at all! Next thing you know, she'll be turning into a robot or uploading her consciousness into a computer. She has no respect for the human body. She's addicted to surgical procedures.

That's silly. Having her breasts removed was recommended by her specialists because, you know, she had the flipping gene for dying of breast cancer. Her surgeons would not have removed healthy breasts for cosmetic reasons only. Please try harder.

[Dani8]

Oh for god's sake give it a rest. You said you'd stay out of kendra's thread if yoda reopened it but you cant help yourself but to be offensive and hijack something personal that is being shared with those of us wanting to give support and learn something. I wont be engaging with you further in this thread.

[John McClane]

Yes, hormone blockers are completely reversible. All they do is prevent secondary sex characteristics from developing.

[Dani8]

Yes, hormone blockers are completely reversible. All they do is prevent secondary sex characteristics from developing.


What about hormone therapy in adults eg if I have a friend with the birth name Sue who wants to become Tom, but the testosterone causes problems so they decide to stop the therapy, does their body return to how it was previously? I've heard that women bodybuilders who take test cant reverse the changes.

[John McClane]

Most things are fairly reversible in the case of adults, as long as the organs that produce hormones (ovaries & testes) are left in tact.

Ya gotta keep in mind that the endocrine system is fairly sensitive but also resilient.

[Dani8]

Most things are fairly reversible in the case of adults, as long as the organs that produce hormones (ovaries & testes) are left in tact.

Ya gotta keep in mind that the endocrine system is fairly sensitive but also resilient.

In the case of female body builders who tke the roids, from what I've been told their clitoris elongates, they grow facial hair, and their voices deepen. I dont know about the last two but apparently the only reversl to the genitals once they stop is surgical.

and sorry for my stoooopid a key.

[John McClane]

I noticed this the other day. The differences are slight, but they are certainly there. :)

29430

Left: May 2015
Right: March 2017

[Dani8]

Your lower lip is plumper and your chin is finer.

[Captain Steel]

It's just feminine lighting, John.

Just kidding! You look a bit thinner in the latter picture

[John McClane]

Well, the coworkers in my department now know that I'm transgender. It went a lot smoother than I had expected, so yeah...that was a good thing.

[mattiasflgrtll6]

How many times CAN you change your sex?

I wonder if there's anybody who keeps flipping back - man to woman, woman to man, man to woman, woman to man, etc.

I wanna see this person if they exist. "I CHANGED MY SEX 50 TIMES!" On the next Maury.

That's the comic El Goonish Shive in a nutshell.

[Dani8]

OK I have a question because this came up on FB, and by male bodybuilders, not female. I dont have an opinion on this at the mo but interested in opinions. Is this fair?

http://www.dailywire.com/news/14565/fairness-man-who-says-hes-woman-dominating-womens-amanda-prestigiacomo#

and is it different to this

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/15/01/36DB634700000578-3740682-image-a-13_1471220134476.jpg

One is born a man, the other is born intersex. Does that give them a physical advantage? Just thought this would be an interesting discussion, not trying to open a can of worms.

[Omnizoa]

I fluctuate between male and female at times, but I definitely feel more female.
Sure you don't mean "masculine" and "feminine"?

I got my ears pierced earlier tonight.
You don't have to be female for that.

I ended up getting my navel pierced around that time and that's when I knew for sure.
You don't have to be female for that either.

The number one reason why I know is because whenever I spent time with boys as a kid/teenager I always felt isolated and when I acted like them to "belong" (ball busting and rough housing) I felt intensely uncomfortable and uneasy. I mean, at times I was physically ill from "behaving" like a guy.
And you don't have to be female for that either.

Before now I just had a feeling something was off with me but never knew what it was or how to describe it. Then trans issues got big in the media and I started doing research and things just clicked.And as far as genitals go...both sexes are made from the same collection of parts but just configured differently, so I have become much more aware of my gender dysphoria in this regard because what I see and what I feel do not make a "connection". Now that I know all this it has gotten much worse:
Have you considered the possibility that this "research" you did has deliberately exacerbated your self-consciousness and conveniently offered you a remedy in the form of a community label as a means to acquire the sort of class protection and privileges society renders in deference to outgroups?

Could it not be that you are merely male... who simply prefers things traditionally stereotyped as feminine?

[Captain Steel]

OK I have a question because this came up on FB, and by male bodybuilders, not female. I dont have an opinion on this at the mo but interested in opinions. Is this fair?

http://www.dailywire.com/news/14565/fairness-man-who-says-hes-woman-dominating-womens-amanda-prestigiacomo#

and is it different to this

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/15/01/36DB634700000578-3740682-image-a-13_1471220134476.jpg

One is born a man, the other is born intersex. Does that give them a physical advantage? Just thought this would be an interesting discussion, not trying to open a can of worms.

Well, it is a can of worms that will have to be addressed.

I remember a few years back (on another site) talking about genders and bathrooms... and people laughed at me for ruminating on a topic that the majority felt was unrealistic. They told me that such a thing would NEVER become an issue and that I was being ridiculous by "making up" these stupid slippery slope scenarios that would NEVER need to be addressed.

On a recent news show, there was a discussion about how to deal with transgendered athletes (or those who simply want to be reclassified as the gender they identify with) who may still have physical advantages of their birth gender or of their former gender if they are post surgical (some biological traits just can't be removed completely, like basic muscular structure). And the ironic thing was the activist being interviewed said it was ridiculous to even talk about such things because it will never be an issue - because right now, the issue is what bathrooms people can use who "identify" with a gender that's different than their biology.

[Omnizoa]

I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to go vegan, a sex change is entirely optional.
And doesn't really "change" your sex.

[Coloratura]

Hey Mofos,

I figure it's time I bring you all into the fold: I identify as transgender. It was about a year and a half ago that I finally admitted it to myself, and it wasn't until now that I finally became comfortable with telling people.

I'm an open book so—if you want—feel free to ask any question. I will keep you all informed on my transition in this thread.

Cheers!!
Congratulations! :)

[TheUsualSuspect]

OK I have a question because this came up on FB, and by male bodybuilders, not female. I dont have an opinion on this at the mo but interested in opinions. Is this fair?

http://www.dailywire.com/news/14565/fairness-man-who-says-hes-woman-dominating-womens-amanda-prestigiacomo#

and is it different to this

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/15/01/36DB634700000578-3740682-image-a-13_1471220134476.jpg

One is born a man, the other is born intersex. Does that give them a physical advantage? Just thought this would be an interesting discussion, not trying to open a can of worms.


Are we going to have a separate event for transgender people? Men, transitioning to women and dominating in women's events should be addressed. I for one, think it is unfair, but do people want to speak up to it? Probably not.

[John McClane]

There is a lot here for me to address so I won't get to it till lunch time.

But I just wanted to say that the athletics thing is giberrish. I will get into more detail later but when a MTF athlete is on hormones any advantage they once had is gone or so severely limited that it might as well be gone.

Now the real thing to address in sports is FTM athletes who aren't allowed to compete with men and are forced to compete with women. Those athletes have a distinct and measurable advantage. They should be allowed to compete with men because they are men.

[Omnizoa]

I've spoken to Yoda and Omni. I know what they think.

I'm disturbed by what John McClane's doing to himself,If he has said nothing, then don't go making assumptions about his thoughts and don't assume anything about Omni's thoughts either.i don't think you should speak for other people (Yoda, Omni),
I think John McClane is entitled to do whatever they want with their own body. However you could say I'm adversarial to the idea, especially insofar as it can influence impressionable children.