View Full Version : How important is alcohol to you?
Two of my country's ( India ) states---Bihar and Kerala---have decided to ban alcohol totally . The prohibition is already in effect in a third state ( Gujarat ) where Gandhi was born because Gandhi was opposed to alcohol .
Which brings me to the question---
I do drink it because my friends drink but would not be affected if prohibition came into effect in the area I live . I can safely say I would be able to live without alcohol .
What about you ?
I know some of my friends' lifestyle would be affected if alcohol was denied to them . Their saturday night fun would be gone .
MovieMeditation
04-01-16, 06:42 PM
I don't think someone here would really say that alcohol is straight up important to them (cough, maybe Slob).
BUT personally I don't mind it and I drink it at parties and I enjoy a beer or some wine once in a while. But it's not something I absolutely need in my life. And if a ban come upon the place where I lived, I wouldn't care. I mean, all people would be equal and having fun, not drinking alcohol.
So yeah, I don't care much. :shrug:
SeeingisBelieving
04-01-16, 06:44 PM
Two of my country's ( India ) states---Bihar and Kerala---have decided to ban alcohol totally . The prohibition is already in effect in a third state ( Gujarat ) where Gandhi was born because Gandhi was opposed to alcohol .
Which brings me to the question---
I do drink it because my friends drink but would not be affected if prohibition came into effect in the area I live . I can safely say I would be able to live without alcohol .
What about you ?
I know some of my friends' lifestyle would be affected if alcohol was denied to them . Their saturday night fun would be gone .
The things we don't hear about – very interesting to know that.
I pretty much only drink on special occasions so it's not that important to my lifestyle, but I enjoy it and wouldn't want myself or anyone else to do without:).
Mr Minio
04-01-16, 06:54 PM
I don't drink.
Derek Vinyard
04-01-16, 07:21 PM
Not That Important... I could stop at anytime I want. I like to be drunk with my friends and some girls sometimes it's all fun and at shows it's cool too
Fabulous
04-01-16, 07:24 PM
I'm a social drinker, it's not important to me at all.
AboveTheClouds
04-01-16, 07:28 PM
I used to drink a lot especially when I was at shows/concerts but I partied myself out and only really have a beer with dinner, after a long/hot day or maybe a few on a special occasion. And even then all I drink is usually Carling or Holsten for beer, and Grey Goose, Crown Royale and Wild Turkey for liquor.
Guaporense
04-01-16, 07:34 PM
I think that alcohol is more important for my life than American movies have been but not as important as manga or metal.
AboveTheClouds
04-01-16, 07:36 PM
Alcohol and Metal are like best friends, they go hand in hand.
cricket
04-01-16, 07:42 PM
I once lived for it but now I wouldn't care at all. I'd just get rich bootlegging.
Citizen Rules
04-01-16, 07:46 PM
I think that alcohol is more important for my life than American movies have been but not as important as manga or metal. I like that answer!
If they tried banning alcohol in the USA again, I would be pissed:mad: Not that I'm into drinking, but it's not the governments business to do tell people they can't have alcohol.
Personally I only drink quality handcraft beer:p I'm a beer snob! But I limit it to 1 beer at a time and I don't mean 1, then another and another! I don't like to get drunk as it always makes me sick. But a 'medium cold' (not ice cold) beer is tasty.
Ashdoc, do those states in India have a high Muslim population? Is that the reason their banning alcohol?
Alcohol was very important to me from my mid 20s to my mid 50s. I usually drank a few beers up to a case a day in my late 40s/early 50s. I was able to keep working and nurture my family, but I did get even more obese than I had been most of my life. I had a close drinking buddy too. Well, he lost his job (a good-paying one) during the recent recession and has never gotten another one. He lost his car and place to live. He's now living permanently in a homeless shelter. He hasn't been diagnosed, but I'm sure he has massive memory loss and more than a few mental illnesses. As for me, in 2012 my ***** hit the fan and I had my stroke 42 months ago, undoubtedly caused by my massively beer-centric diet. I cannot function as a normal person and this includes my basic body elimination functions which I need help from my family with most all the time. I no longer need to drink beer, but I usually have a bottle once a week and on holidays. I still try to take care of my family, but now it's only doing all the bill payments on-line and no longer cleaning the house, laundry and dishes, cooking and various other maintenance around the house, which I did even while I was working but drinking so much afterwards. I know I'm not the usual case and this is not meant to scare off anyone, but I'm probably the stupidest person who thinks he's smart, and I'm paying for it now. This may not have been the proper thread to go into this, and I have discussed some of this in the past, but it just seemed pertinent when I read through this thread. Back to the topic.
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 12:04 AM
I drink occasionally. Every now and then I'll pick up something at the store or order a cocktail at a restaurant. I usually don't have more than a couple of drinks in a day (New Year's Eve and Oscar Night aside) and I don't drink every day so if alcohol was banned I wouldn't really care. Though we tried prohibition once before and it didn't exactly work out.
I used to drink a lot, then became a religious man and decided to stay sober. Now I only drink a few times a year.
Ashdoc, do those states in India have a high Muslim population? Is that the reason their banning alcohol?
no , it's not related to muslim population .
women have been in the forefront of the agitation to ban alcohol , because they suffer domestic violence due to it and some of them have lost husbands due to it . the politicians had made promises to ban alcohol to gain women's votes and after winning elections are implementing the promises .
Pussy Galore
04-02-16, 12:26 AM
I don't drink, never did and probably never will. I prefer sports (running, cycling, hockey, tennis, badminton, baseball), cinema, reading (philosophy, litterature, manga) and playing video games to alcool and drugs for entertainment.
As for people who do it because it makes them feel good, puts them in a good state of mind, etc. I understand everyone feels down sometime, I'd say that meditation, reading philosophy and sports is a way more efficient and fruitfull way to deal with yourself.
It's not that I have a moral objection agains't it, just that I don't think it's going to positively affect my life if I start.
The Sci-Fi Slob
04-02-16, 12:28 AM
I don't think someone here would really say that alcohol is straight up important to them (cough, maybe Slob).
I deeply resent the truth in that remark.
Guaporense
04-02-16, 01:20 AM
Alcohol and Metal are like best friends, they go hand in hand.
True that n****!
Guaporense
04-02-16, 01:25 AM
I like that answer!
If they tried banning alcohol in the USA again, I would be pissed:mad: Not that I'm into drinking, but it's not the governments business to do tell people they can't have alcohol.
F**k yeah! Vote Gary for president!
http://radio.foxnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/GJTwitter.png
Personally I only drink quality handcraft beer:p I'm a beer snob! But I limit it to 1 beer at a time and I don't mean 1, then another and another! I don't like to get drunk as it always makes me sick. But a 'medium cold' (not ice cold) beer is tasty.
Meh, I hate those fancy small scale IPA's and stuff. I like the bland mass produced yellow stuff, like Heineken and Stella. Well, but I always was a mainstream guy.
Guaporense
04-02-16, 01:28 AM
I don't drink, never did and probably never will. I prefer sports (running, cycling, hockey, tennis, badminton, baseball), cinema, reading (philosophy, litterature, manga) and playing video games to alcool and drugs for entertainment.
As for people who do it because it makes them feel good, puts them in a good state of mind, etc. I understand everyone feels down sometime, I'd say that meditation, reading philosophy and sports is a way more efficient and fruitfull way to deal with yourself.
It's not that I have a moral objection agains't it, just that I don't think it's going to positively affect my life if I start.
Don't worry. A little bit of beer doesn't kill anybody. It's like not drinking coffee or tea and actually one can of beer has almost zero effect on your body. I drink beer mostly for the taste not to get really drunk. For drunk I drink Gin or Vodka.
Overall I actually think that not drinking, like EVER, is quite close minded. To never experience the taste of a good lager beer is something like never tasting chocolate and the health risks of drinking one can of it are zero.
Over the last year or two i've kind of went through my wild time, when i get drunk usually once or twice a week (went through a good few benders as well) and when i get drunk i usually get really drunk. Now i only really do so if a friend or girlfriend wants to, truthfully though it does nothing for me now. Kinda like weed which i noticed i was only really smoking because my friends did, haven't smoked it since 2012.
AboveTheClouds
04-02-16, 01:41 AM
True that n****!
SEX, DRINKS AND METAL!!!!!!
If PG has no interest in alcohol then that's great :up:. Not sure why anyone would try to convince someone that alcohol is a necessity but i think PG's comment probably annoyed you Guap because it made you realize you couldn't tell us how awful and unnecessary it is :D
TheMaster
04-02-16, 01:46 AM
I drink when I'm happy and sad. I love it :)
Omnizoa
04-02-16, 01:59 AM
Not.
Pussy Galore
04-02-16, 02:03 AM
Don't worry. A little bit of beer doesn't kill anybody. It's like not drinking coffee or tea and actually one can of beer has almost zero effect on your body. I drink beer mostly for the taste not to get really drunk. For drunk I drink Gin or Vodka.
Overall I actually think that not drinking, like EVER, is quite close minded. To never experience the taste of a good lager beer is something like never tasting chocolate and the health risks of drinking one can of it are zero.
If I actually liked the taste of it I wouldn't mind driking it occasionally, my comment was more related to drinking regularly then occasionally.
Omnizoa
04-02-16, 02:18 AM
Overall I actually think that not drinking, like EVER, is quite close minded. To never experience the taste of a good lager beer is something like never tasting chocolate
Close-minded you say?
Chocolate and beer is no more arbitrary than haggis and pineapple pizza calzones.
Haggis is delicious. Pineapple pizza is awful.
gbgoodies
04-02-16, 04:14 AM
I don't drink because I hate the taste of alcohol, so if they ever ban alcohol here, I might not even notice.
Or you'll be an old timey prohibition agent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9tP9fI2zbE
gbgoodies
04-02-16, 04:22 AM
Or you'll be an old timey prohibition agent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9tP9fI2zbE
The sound is off on my computer right now, so I'll have to watch that clip later, but I doubt I'd ever stop the rest of you from drinking. If you guys want to drink, get drunk, and act like idiots, that's your prerogative. Just don't get behind the wheel of a car and kill an innocent bystander.
haha. Will do gbg, wasn't aware drink driving was bad apparently.
I drink it daily but not in same amounts of course, more at parties, few beers normally. I could live without it, but we would rather develop an illegal way to get it than to remove it totally, it's all about **** the system in my city :D
christine
04-02-16, 06:11 AM
I think banning alcohol is a ridiculous idea. We saw what happened during the American Prohibition, the whole industry went underground and fuelled crime. The same will happen in those Indian states. You think the husbands of those abused women will just give up drinking and become lovely upstanding citizens? It's those men that should be stopped from abusing their wives not stopping every other law abiding person enjoying a drink. The politicians should try implementing measures to stop domestic abuse not stooping to garner votes from women. Honestly, sorry it's making me mad! I hate that kind of kneejerk politican guesture.
Mr Minio
04-02-16, 07:07 AM
SEX, DRINKS AND METAL!!!!!! AND UNDERAGED ANIME GIRLS. DON'T FORGET ABOUT LOLIS!
Omnizoa
04-02-16, 11:25 AM
Haggis is delicious. Pineapple pizza is awful.
They're both awful. Just like beer and chocolate is awful.
Pineapple pizza is awful.
CALZONE. Pineapple Pizza CALZONE.
I think banning alcohol is a ridiculous idea. We saw what happened during the American Prohibition, the whole industry went underground and fuelled crime.
I always hear this excuse and it always baffles me (just as the +7 rep baffles me).
Does it not say something about the product being banned itself that people were so desperate to keep it around that they went to extremes to keep producing it? Would we have had such an uproar over banning some incidental consumable that wasn't addictive?
I'm not sure how a ban can be blamed for crimes it isn't criminalizing.
Sure, if you ban alcohol that makes criminals of all alcohol dealers, but when those dealers go and buy guns and people wind up dead because their business has gone underground, I wouldn't blame that on the ban, I'd blame that on the idiots that think alcohol is so friggen' important it's worth shooting someone over, and I'd question whether that dangerous behavior can be blamed on the drug they're trafficking.
I agree with all of this:
I don't drink, never did and probably never will. I prefer sports (running, cycling, hockey, tennis, badminton, baseball), cinema, reading (philosophy, litterature, manga) and playing video games to alcool and drugs for entertainment.
As for people who do it because it makes them feel good, puts them in a good state of mind, etc. I understand everyone feels down sometime, I'd say that meditation, reading philosophy and sports is a way more efficient and fruitfull way to deal with yourself.
It's not that I have a moral objection agains't it, just that I don't think it's going to positively affect my life if I start.
I guess I would like to make myself drink a little more just so I a) have the option in social situations without getting tipsy so easily and b) have the option if I need to relax before bed, or something. I hear it's good for that. That's the main reason I'm considering forcing myself to drink a bit semi-regularly. But I will, in fact, have to force myself, because I find it pretty hard to enjoy.
Omnizoa
04-02-16, 11:38 AM
I guess I would like to make myself drink a little more just so have the option if I need to relax before bed, or something. I hear it's good for that.
I suggest Pumpkin Spice Soymilk.
Is it technically possible to buy that without wearing a scarf/shopping at Whole Foods? Because if so, I'm in.
Omnizoa
04-02-16, 11:47 AM
Is it technically possible to buy that without wearing a scarf/shopping at Whole Foods? Because if so, I'm in.
Oh yeah, no, I don't wear scarves, just lots of belts.
Citizen Rules
04-02-16, 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by christine: I think banning alcohol is a ridiculous idea. We saw what happened during the American Prohibition, the whole industry went underground and fuelled crime.
...I always hear this excuse and it always baffles me (just as the +7 rep baffles me)...Make that 9 reps for Christine, I just gave her a rep too:D
You know what baffles me? Short-sightedness...people are willing to give up other people's rights, just because it doesn't personally effect them. How wrong is that?
So, some of you don't care if alcohol is banned because you don't drink... Well then, I don't own a mobile or smart phone...so how about we ban those as it won't effect me?
Now you get it, don't you.
gbgoodies
04-02-16, 01:59 PM
Make that 9 reps for Christine, I just gave her a rep too:D
You know what baffles me? Short-sightedness...people are willing to give up other people's rights, just because it doesn't personally effect them. How wrong is that?
So, some of you don't care if alcohol is banned because you don't drink... Well then, I don't own a mobile or smart phone...so how about we ban those as it won't effect me?
Now you get it, don't you.
YES!!! Can we ban mobile phones? Too many people walk around attached to their phones. They're so busy looking at their phones that they bump into people while walking. The idiots who use their cell phones while driving are even worse. :mad:
matt72582
04-02-16, 02:29 PM
YES!!! Can we ban mobile phones? Too many people walk around attached to their phones. They're so busy looking at their phones that they bump into people while walking. The idiots who use their cell phones while driving are even worse. :mad:
I drive every single day, and I am forced to honk my horn to get the attention of the idiot in front of me using their phone at a light. Sometimes I'll look in the rear view mirror - same thing.
An old couple was killed up north recently from a guy texting..
In SF, I saw a guy run right into a wall while playing with his little toy. I have to admit, he had it coming :)
As for alcohol, our poll shows 21 out of 24 either don't drink, or don't think it's important. Instead of just banning alcohol, maybe ban drinking outside of the home? People here drive to the bar, drink, and drive back. They know the laws, but they do it anyway, and I've lost too many classmates from drinking and driving, and now you add texting/phoning and it's a bad combination.
christine
04-02-16, 02:37 PM
I always hear this excuse and it always baffles me (just as the +7 rep baffles me).
Does it not say something about the product being banned itself that people were so desperate to keep it around that they went to extremes to keep producing it? Would we have had such an uproar over banning some incidental consumable that wasn't addictive?
I'm not sure how a ban can be blamed for crimes it isn't criminalizing.
Sure, if you ban alcohol that makes criminals of all alcohol dealers, but when those dealers go and buy guns and people wind up dead because their business has gone underground, I wouldn't blame that on the ban, I'd blame that on the idiots that think alcohol is so friggen' important it's worth shooting someone over, and I'd question whether that dangerous behavior can be blamed on the drug they're trafficking.
Ok I get you don't drink, but criminalising alcohol takes away that choice that people who enjoy a social drink can make. Criminals will take any opportunity where they can see money is to be made. Criminalising alcohol is a removal of a liberty to drink. Removing alcohol from the population of those states in India will not remove abuse against woman. I think even Ashdoc will agree that violence against women, physical, sexual and psychological is endemic in a lot of Indian states, and it's a change of outlook in society that's needed and education not the removal of choice.
christine
04-02-16, 02:48 PM
I drive every single day, and I am forced to honk my horn to get the attention of the idiot in front of me using their phone at a light. Sometimes I'll look in the rear view mirror - same thing.
An old couple was killed up north recently from a guy texting..
In SF, I saw a guy run right into a wall while playing with his little toy. I have to admit, he had it coming :)
As for alcohol, our poll shows 21 out of 24 either don't drink, or don't think it's important. Instead of just banning alcohol, maybe ban drinking outside of the home? People here drive to the bar, drink, and drive back. They know the laws, but they do it anyway, and I've lost too many classmates from drinking and driving, and now you add texting/phoning and it's a bad combination.
I'm just not getting something here. Why all the banning talk? I thought you guys were from the land of freedom!
Ban drinking outside of the home? what and make a whole licensed trade industry die along with all the jobs? Close all the bars where people have a good time, where lonely people can meet, where bands play, where you can play games? come on! drinking and driving is illegal. Make the blood alcohol limit zero and apply it extremely stringently. I think people sometimes think they are immune to alcohol, so think they can have one, and then maybe another one and then drive. Make it zero then there's no grey area to ponder upon.
I think even Ashdoc will agree that violence against women, physical, sexual and psychological is endemic in a lot of Indian states, and it's a change of outlook in society that's needed and education not the removal of choice.
i agree . but i hope you realise that every third world country has this problem . not just india . but india's problems receive excessive coverage because of it's free press and television channels , and it is probably the only third world country which allows such open scrutiny of its society by the media because it is a rare third world country which is a real democracy . other third world countries simply get a better image by hiding their problems because they are not democracies and do not have a free media/press and do not allow such open scrutiny of their society .
SilentVamp
04-02-16, 03:51 PM
Or you'll be an old timey prohibition agent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9tP9fI2zbE
I still say that this guy deserved an Emmy for this small performance. One of the best characters that they had.
I think banning alcohol is a ridiculous idea. We saw what happened during the American Prohibition, the whole industry went underground and fuelled crime.
You got to that point before I could. :D I live in a place, that is also near another place, that was really affected by the whole Prohibition thing. I fully understand why this shouldn't be made illegal.
You know what baffles me? Short-sightedness...people are willing to give up other people's rights, just because it doesn't personally effect them. How wrong is that?
This could be applied to so many different issues. But I won't go into any of them as this thread isn't about all of that. But I like that you said it. :)
Truth be told, I don't drink. I think the taste of alcohol is vile. :sick: I don't understand the enjoyment in drinking. I don't like people when they are really drunk. But just because I am not a "drinker", and I don't care for some aspects of it, I am not going to stop others from doing it. I really don't care what other people do with their lives. I really don't.
CALZONE. Pineapple Pizza CALZONE.
... is awful. Haggis is great though, Haggis Pizza is even better.
I still say that this guy deserved an Emmy for this small performance. One of the best characters that they had.
Couldn't agree more, The Library is one of my favourite episodes because of him. I read that during Jerry's scenes with him he was genuinely cracking up and they just decided to leave some of it in you can definitely tell.
christine
04-02-16, 04:02 PM
i agree . but i hope you realise that every third world country has this problem . not just india . but india's problems receive excessive coverage because of it's free press and television channels , and it is probably the only third world country which allows such open scrutiny of its society by the media because it is a rare third world country which is a real democracy . other third world countries simply get a better image by hiding their problems because they are not democracies and do not have a free media/press and do not allow such open scrutiny of their society .
Yes Ashdoc, I do realise that. I only talked about India because this was your subject. Violence against women is endemic (and accepted) in many societies. You only have to look at Saudi Arabia of which we know very little as their society is closed to outside scrutiny.
christine
04-02-16, 04:16 PM
At the risk of sounding like a lush amongst all you non drinkers, I like to have a drink :D. I love a good night down at the pub, it's the kind of culture I was brought up in and all the previous generations of my family too. The pub is where your mates are, where you go to chat and meet up. It's where my hubbie meets his old cronies to do the cryptic crossword on a Tuesday night over a beer - a group of old blokes, some of whom live on their own so like the company.
I also like a glass of wine on a Friday and Saturday night in front of the telly, or a few beers when we go down the community centre. I work in a Licensed Trade industry, have done most of my working life so I know what heavy drinking can do to someone, but I also know the benefits the social side of the Licensed Trade can have.
Cheers! ;)
Chypmunk
04-02-16, 04:26 PM
At the risk of sounding like a lush amongst all you non drinkers, I like to have a drink :D. I love a good night down at the pub, it's the kind of culture I was brought up in and all the previous generations of my family too. The pub is where your mates are, where you go to chat and meet up. It's where my hubbie meets his old cronies to do the cryptic crossword on a Tuesday night over a beer - a group of old blokes, some of whom live on their own so like the company.
I also like a glass of wine on a Friday and Saturday night in front of the telly, or a few beers when we go down the community centre. I work in a Licensed Trade industry, have done most of my working life so I know what heavy drinking can do to someone, but I also know the benefits the social side of the Licensed Trade can have.
Cheers! ;)
Calm down love, calm down ;)
My name is Chyp and I'm not averse to a sociable pint every once in a while even though I don't drink that often anymore.
Omnizoa
04-02-16, 04:32 PM
You know what baffles me? Short-sightedness...people are willing to give up other people's rights, just because it doesn't personally effect them. How wrong is that?
You're right, lawmakers don't have any personal stakes in outlawing something like rape just because they don't like to do it.
So, some of you don't care if alcohol is banned because you don't drink... Well then, I don't own a mobile or smart phone...so how about we ban those as it won't effect me?
Whether it affects me or not was beside the point. The argument was the rise in crime in connection with prohibition.
Now you get it, don't you.
No.
As for alcohol, our poll shows 21 out of 24 either don't drink, or don't think it's important. Instead of just banning alcohol, maybe ban drinking outside of the home?
That's an interesting idea.
Ok I get you don't drink, but criminalising alcohol takes away that choice that people who enjoy a social drink can make.
That's an appeal to liberty. I think it's a pretty fair assumption that there are choices you don't think people should be allowed to make, such as the choice to set your lawn on fire. The question is then: where do you draw the line?
Removing alcohol from the population of those states in India will not remove abuse against woman. I think even Ashdoc will agree that violence against women, physical, sexual and psychological is endemic in a lot of Indian states, and it's a change of outlook in society that's needed and education not the removal of choice.
O_o ...I'm not sure where abuse of women comes in or how it is in any way rational to blame alcohol for it.
I'm just not getting something here. Why all the banning talk? I thought you guys were from the land of freedom!
Are you talkin' about the USA? PPPPPBBBBBBBBTTTTTTT
The sidewalks were picked of all their gold years ago.
Ban drinking outside of the home? what and make a whole licensed trade industry die along with all the jobs?
Ban cocaine? But the poor cocaine dealers!
Close all the bars where people have a good time, where lonely people can meet,
Funny how "meeting in a bar" is somehow more socially acceptable than "meeting online".
Make the blood alcohol limit zero and apply it extremely stringently. I think people sometimes think they are immune to alcohol, so think they can have one, and then maybe another one and then drive. Make it zero then there's no grey area to ponder upon.
I'm really not sure why there's any leniency.
This could be applied to so many different issues.
Which is exactly why it's fallible.
... is awful. Haggis is great though, Haggis Pizza is even better.
You know, just because you're Scottish doesn't mean...
You know, just because you're Scottish doesn't mean...
Weirdly i actually know quite a few people who haven't tried it, and i didn't try it until i was about 16. Obviously when you hear what it is it sounds horrible but i like it, i like Black Pudding too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Have you tried it?
Omnizoa
04-02-16, 04:51 PM
Have you tried it?
If it wasn't already obvious, I'm vegan. I haven't eaten any meat products since I was in daycare.
Fair enough. I don't even blame meat eaters for not trying it because it does sound disgusting. Still, i've notice that most people who say it is bad haven't actually tried it, everyone i know who has likes it.
Omnizoa
04-02-16, 05:11 PM
Fair enough. I don't even blame meat eaters for not trying it because it does sound disgusting. Still, i've notice that most people who say it is bad haven't actually tried it, everyone i know who has likes it.
I find you don't need to try things to judge them in ways that aren't entirely dependent on trying them.
I can't say whether haggis would taste good or bad, but just like alcohol I know it's not something I'll appreciate discovering.
christine
04-02-16, 06:22 PM
Well I'm not going to pick up on all your sarcastic comments Omnizoa, I've been working all day and I really can't be arsed but in answer to your:
O_o ...I'm not sure where abuse of women comes in or how it is in any way rational to blame alcohol for it.
Ashdoc clarified his original reasoning for asking by saying:
women have been in the forefront of the agitation to ban alcohol , because they suffer domestic violence due to it and some of them have lost husbands due to it . the politicians had made promises to ban alcohol to gain women's votes and after winning elections are implementing the promises .
And for the record I reserve the right to set my own lawn on fire, it could do with something happening to it anyway as it's looking a bit manky. Also I don't think it's any more or less socially acceptable to meet online or in a bar, I think we've all gone past that one surely.
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 06:40 PM
Have you tried it?
Real Haggis is illegal in the U.S.
Also, pineapple pizza is delicious.
Real Haggis is illegal in the U.S.
Also, pineapple pizza is delicious.
Yeah i forgot about that, read that Irn Bru is too or that may have been Canada.
And no it's not ;)
Who the hell puts fruit on a pizza???
And I rarely drink, when I do, it's a Mojito! It's probably the only alcoholic drink I like...
Last week, I had a dinner with friends and when I was returning home, at 3 am I was stopped by the police. They asked me to do the alcohol test and I said I'd do it but it'd be useless cause I hadn't had anything to drink. I had 0,00 of alcohol in my blood, of course, and when I told him I was 24 he looked to me with a really confused face... I actually felt bad for not drinking before driving...
And that's the story of my life.
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 07:56 PM
Who the hell puts fruit on a pizza???
Technically tomatoes and peppers are fruits, so... pretty much everyone?
As I said, pineapple pizza is delicious.
Mr Minio
04-02-16, 07:58 PM
Technically tomatoes and peppers are fruits, so... pretty much everyone? The last time I checked these were vegetables.
You didn't check very well then because both of them are fruits.
cricket
04-02-16, 08:05 PM
I changed my mind, I'm going to start drinking again. HEAVY!
Guaporense
04-02-16, 08:51 PM
Who the hell puts fruit on a pizza???
And I rarely drink, when I do, it's a Mojito! It's probably the only alcoholic drink I like...
Last week, I had a dinner with friends and when I was returning home, at 3 am I was stopped by the police. They asked me to do the alcohol test and I said I'd do it but it'd be useless cause I hadn't had anything to drink. I had 0,00 of alcohol in my blood, of course, and when I told him I was 24 he looked to me with a really confused face... I actually felt bad for not drinking before driving...
And that's the story of my life.
You are wasting your 20's being sober!!
The Sci-Fi Slob
04-02-16, 08:56 PM
As I said, pineapple pizza is delicious.
I like Hawaiian pizza. The mix of smokey ham and pineapple is a winner.:up:
matt72582
04-02-16, 09:06 PM
According to the polls, 28 out of 31 either don't drink, or it's not that important to them.
I have notice people getting rid of the alcohol for "medical" marihuana. It's funny older people I know who had misconceptions and now have a better life because of it.
Pineapple pizza is great because it adds another level of flavor: sweetness. It perfectly complements the saltiness of the toppings and the savory dough. The soft texture is a bonus. Also, having more flavors helps you satisfy your craving for food faster. It's why hogging down an entire bowl of ice cream (nothing but sweetness on there) is very easy.
matt72582
04-02-16, 09:13 PM
Pineapple pizza is great because it adds another level of flavor: sweetness. It perfectly complements the saltiness of the toppings and the savory dough. The soft texture is a bonus. Also, having more flavors helps you satisfy your craving for food faster. It's why hogging down an entire bowl of ice cream (nothing but sweetness on there) is very easy.
I never thought I'd like it, but a group of people ordered it at a party, and I didn't wanna be picky, and it wasn't bad! Personally, I love pepperoni and cheese, and then later for dessert I could eat a pineapple.
There should be a thread dedicated to pineapple pizza.
I can't live without alcohol. If I stopped drinking the LCBO near my house would go out of business. If there was a prohibition in Canada, I'd shoot myself.
Citizen Rules
04-02-16, 09:33 PM
Hawaiian style pizza, pineapple and Canadian Bacon (which is actually ham) was good. I say was because some years ago the pineapple growers starting growing overly sweet and insipid pineapple. The original pineapple was sweet and highly acidic and that made for a good balance pizza, good for fresh eating too. Today's pineapple can't compare, it's sweet, watery and no acid. Oh and I'm going to have a nice cold beer soon, a dark porter with spruce...I brewed it myself:p
Pineapple on pizza? You people should be shot.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/images/smilies/barf.gif
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 09:54 PM
Pineapple on pizza? You people should be shot.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/images/smilies/barf.gif
Have you ever had it?
Pineapple on pizza? You people should be shot.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/images/smilies/barf.gif
You tell them Zotis. Can't believe how many fans there are here. Also i like how much the topic has shifted.
Have you ever had it?
Yup
You tell them Zotis. Can't believe how many fans there are here. Also i like how much the topic has shifted.
I tried to bring it back but... #ignored.
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 10:01 PM
Well I guess you're just crazy then.
This thread's making me hungry. I really want some Hawaiian pizza now.
Well I guess you're just crazy then.
This thread's making me hungry. I really want some Hawaiian pizza now.
Everyone knows you don't mix sweet with savoury.
:sick:
Also... How can anyone even eat Pizza without beer?
John McClane
04-02-16, 10:19 PM
Thou shalt not put pineapple on pizza.
For Pizza I like pepperoni and random vegetables like onions, green pepper, mushrooms, broccoli, tomatoes... Double pepperoni and double cheese is really good too.
I'm not a huge fan of Chicken, Sausage, or Bacon on Pizza. I'll eat it if it's free and my friends are ordering it, but my choice of meat on Pizza is only pepperoni.
I heard that if you ask for a pepperoni pizza in Italy they give you a plain pizza and hand you some peppers and tell you to get out.
Louis Lunch the place that claimed to have invented the hamburger kick you out if you ask for ketchup :laugh:
I don't even like any form of pizza :lol:
As for alcohol, long island iced tea is my life. As is sex on the beach, as is malibu with coke and Smirnoff ice is delightful!
https://i.imgflip.com/11v5wu.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/11v5wu)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
Let's catch up with the MoFos about their reaction to the verdict!
It was for the best. So how bout them anchovies on pizza?
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 10:42 PM
Everyone knows you don't mix sweet with savoury.
:sick:
Considering that pineapple is available at most American pizza places, I'd say this isn't true.
Also... How can anyone even eat Pizza without beer?
I don't drink beer. :shrug:
Unless it's Not Your Father's Root Beer, which is beer that is flavored like root beer.
Otherwise no.
Must admit Pineapples are better than an egg on a pizza which i've seen before :sick:
Citizen Rules
04-02-16, 10:54 PM
I don't drink beer. :shrug:
Unless it's Not Your Father's Root Beer, which is beer that is flavored like root beer.
Otherwise no. I just had Not Your Father's Root Beer for the first time a couple of weeks ago. It was like a really sweet, root beer. If you don't like beer, try Wild Blue, I willing to bet you will like it. It does not taste like beer at all. It taste like an really amazing blueberry flavored fruit drink,
http://www.beerfm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Anheuser-Busch-Wild-Blue-225x300.jpg
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 11:20 PM
I don't know if I've seen Wild Blue anywhere around here. I'll keep an eye out for it.
Louis Lunch the place that claimed to have invented the hamburger kick you out if you ask for ketchup :laugh:
New topic: Hamburgers
I never eat ketchup on hamburgers. There's already tomato on it, so why add food coloring and sugar? I don't even have ketchup in my house. I put mayonnaise on my French fries.
cricket
04-02-16, 11:33 PM
For Burgers, if it's a regular place, I'll get ketchup, mustard, tomatoes, and onions. If it's a place with a good variety of toppings, I like A1 Steak Sauce and jalapeños. I also like them with chili.
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 11:36 PM
I'll eat ketchup on burgers if they come with ketchup on them already. Otherwise I put barbecue sauce on them.
But fries must have ketchup. Or chili and cheese.
Unless I'm at Fudruckers. Then I put queso on EVERYTHING.
cricket
04-02-16, 11:41 PM
I'll eat ketchup on burgers if they come with ketchup on them already. Otherwise I put barbecue sauce on them.
But fries must have ketchup. Or chili and cheese.
Unless I'm at Fudruckers. Then I put queso on EVERYTHING.
Wow, they have Fudruckers in Cali? That place is awesome!
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 11:44 PM
Wow, they have Fudruckers in Cali? That place is awesome!
Yep. Had dinner there with FF just last week actually. Delicious.
Nostromo87
04-02-16, 11:49 PM
whether it's pizza, cheesburgers, or steak, throw some mushrooms on there
http://oi66.tinypic.com/29c2asj.jpg
cricket
04-02-16, 11:52 PM
My wife's favorite pizza topping is mushrooms, but I don't like them on that. Anything else, sure.
Citizen Rules
04-02-16, 11:54 PM
My favorite pizza topping in jalapenos, but it's not just about the topping, the entire pizza (cheese, sauce, crust) needs to be built around the topping. Yup I'm serious about pizza:p
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 11:55 PM
I just had steak with sauteed mushrooms for dinner, actually. Also steamed veggies and mashed potatoes.
cricket
04-02-16, 11:56 PM
My favorite pizza topping in jalapenos, but it's not just about the topping, the entire pizza (cheese, sauce, crust) needs to be built around the topping. Yup I'm serious about pizza:p
I like jalapeños on it, but I strongly prefer hot cherry peppers, and I get that with sausage and pepperoni every Saturday. Had a slice about 5 minutes ago.
Miss Vicky
04-02-16, 11:57 PM
My favorite pizza topping is probably artichoke hearts.
Citizen Rules
04-03-16, 12:03 AM
I grew some hot cherry peppers last summer, they were good sliced up on the pizza. I grew some habernaros too, they were wickedly hot!
The other day I had Pasta and I sautéed mushrooms, onions, and broccoli in so much butter that the butter was thick in the sauce like oil. It was delicious but it took a while to get rid of the pimples...
AboveTheClouds
04-03-16, 02:33 AM
Yeah i forgot about that, read that Irn Bru is too or that may have been Canada.
And no it's not ;)
I can get Irn Bru in import stores in here in Canada, they only banned it for a while because we had a "No caffeine in none cola beverages" sort of BS law, and we had Irn Bru without caffeine, but now we have it with caffeine. So it's not banned here. And it's good.
Also, as a Canadian who is of predominantly Scottish ancestry I have tried real haggis and it's actually not bad. Blood Pudding is a bit strange though, but I did enjoy it with breakfast dipping it in egg.
The Gunslinger45
04-03-16, 02:54 AM
If I drink it is usually paired with greasy food. Namely fried chicken, pizza, or a Big Mac. And since I try to limit my intake of that, I do don't drink very often. But when I do, it will usually involve a 40 of King Cobra, Colt 45, or a flavored can of Steel Reserve. I particularly like the Blackberry and the Spiked Lemonade. And I prefer to drink at home then out.
Also, I just prefer a simple plain cheese pizza.
Two guys and a girl were talking on the subway. The guys were saying the best beer was Budwiser and the girl was saying no to that. I turned to them and said, "The best beer is German beer. You drink that and then you piss Budwiser." And the girls said, "Exactly."
http://www.artisanwinedepot.com/v/vspfiles/photos/b-ayingercelebrator330ml4PK-2.jpg
Celebrator is a German beer, and it is absolutely the uncontested best beer I have ever had in my life. I only had it once at a gourmet hotdog restaurant because the place closed down and there are only two LCBO's in Ontario that have it in stock. My friend and I drank the rest of their stock, which was five beers, and we had to fight over the last one... sadly he won...
http://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/pimages/AdnamsMosaicPaleAle.jpg
Adnams Jack Brand Mosaic Pale Ale is the second best beer I've had. It is not sold in Canada, a friend of mine from the U.K. brings it back with him a couple of times a year and shares it with me. It's so good that he hides it from his other friends, and even when there's a bunch of us hanging out the two of us drink it secretly. It's too good to share with people who don't fully appreciate it.
http://www.lcbo.com/content/dam/lcbo/products/436998.jpg/jcr:content/renditions/cq5dam.web.1280.1280.jpeg
Fracture Imperial Pale Ale is my go to beer at the local LCBO. When I first tried it they had three cases of 6 x 355ml bottles on the shelf. I liked it so much I just kept buying it until it was out of stock. Later they moved it across to a larger shelf with six cases. After I bought all of those they moved it into the fridge with eight cases. After I bought all of those they moved it up on the top shelf with more cases. I'm working my way through those now. As far as I can tell, I'm the only one in my neighborhood buying it. Every time I go to the LCBO they have the same amount on the shelf as the last time I was there until they restock it.
I have also been drinking a lot of this:
http://wellpreserved.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Kissmeyer_beaus_craft_beer.jpg
Beau's B-Side Kissmeyer Nordic Pale Ale
Hoppy and very tasty.
There's so much good beer. It makes me very sad to see people drinking the Top 5 brands constantly when they taste like urine. People just want to get drunk cheap.
Guinness is my go-to when I'm at a pub and they have nothing else I recognize and the bartender doesn't know any good beer to recommend. Lowenbrau is pretty good too for a lighter German beer.
Nope, best beer would be the Belgian. But yes, I don't understand why can you people drink Budweiser and say it's good...
You should all try super bock, to see what a good non-gourmet beer tastes like.
And, why would you put ketchup on a hamburger if the meat is good? And why would u eat a burger if the meat isn't good?
christine
04-03-16, 06:29 AM
Belgian beer is superb. We had a variety of them when we went to Mechelen a few years back. There was a really nice pub there we hung out in, very friendly.
Zotis - they sell that Adnams Mosiac in one of our locals, as well as their Dry Hopped Lager. The city I live in is big on local cask beers , there's lots of microbreweries as well as some that have become fair sized now.
Chypmunk
04-03-16, 06:31 AM
According to the polls, 28 out of 31 either don't drink, or it's not that important to them.
I noticed you posted the stats earlier in the thread too and might be trying to justify some sort of viewpoint based on them. Just for the record I voted "not that important" but I thoroughly enjoy going to the pub for a social drink on occasion and in no way at all would align myself with wanting to restrict that freedom to do so. I doubt I am the only one to put "not that important" with a similar outlook which just shows how useless the taking of statistics at face value often is.
As for pizza toppings ... black pudding and tripe all the way for me ... nom nom nom :)
As for beer ... I used to be quite partial to a hefeweizen when I lived in Germany and agree Belgian beer is outstanding in it's variety and quality. Guinness is great too ... as long as it's not too far from the Brewery - the further away from the brewery the worse it gets though as it simply doesn't travel well at all. It also needs good maintenance on the delivery system or it suffers too.
Belgian beer is superb. We had a variety of them when we went to Mechelen a few years back. There was a really nice pub there we hung out in, very friendly.
Zotis - they sell that Adnams Mosiac in one of our locals, as well as their Dry Hopped Lager. The city I live in is big on local cask beers , there's lots of microbreweries as well as some that have become fair sized now.
Can you smuggle me... 20 cases?
For some reason this one pub I go to always lets the Guinness sit after they fill it two thirds. I finally asked them why they do it and they said that most customers complain if they don't. So now I tell them every time, "Don't let it sit, just give it to me right away please."
:D
Omnizoa
04-03-16, 07:26 AM
Well I'm not going to pick up on all your sarcastic comments Omnizoa, I've been working all day and I really can't be arsed
They were counter-arguments.
Ashdoc clarified his original reasoning for asking by saying:
Ah, I missed that.
And for the record I reserve the right to set my own lawn on fire,
Figured you wouldn't go for that, and for the record, if I was your neighbor, I would be extremely upset with you.
Didn't want to pull the suicide analogy anyway.
Also, pineapple pizza is delicious.
Yus.
Who the hell puts fruit on a pizza???
I put bagels in pasta sauce and fajitas in hummus.
Technically tomatoes and peppers are fruits, so... pretty much everyone?
Nabbed it 'for I could.
The last time I checked these were vegetables.
Tomatoes and Peppers have seeds therefor they are not vegetables.
You are wasting your 20's being sober!!
Some people spend their 20s being awesome.
I can't live without alcohol.
I think you should talk to somebody about that.
Pineapple on pizza? You people should be shot.
That's just the booze talking.
i like how much the topic has shifted.
I don't, please go back to talking about drinks I'll never drink.
Mr Minio
04-03-16, 08:28 AM
Two guys and a girl were talking on the subway. The guys were saying the best beer was Budwiser and the girl was saying no to that. I turned to them and said, "The best beer is German beer. You drink that and then you piss Budwiser." And the girls said, "Exactly." And then the Subway's Groping Society turned up and started clapping.
Two guys and a girl were talking on the subway. The guys were saying the best beer was Budwiser and the girl was saying no to that. I turned to them and said, "The best beer is German beer. You drink that and then you piss Budwiser." And the girls said, "Exactly." And then the Subway's Groping Society turned up and started clapping.
That's only during rush hour.
cricket
04-03-16, 08:47 AM
Budweiser is king for me; I don't give a crap about quality.:)
matt72582
04-03-16, 10:08 AM
In Europe, especially Greece, they put ham instead of pepperoni. I like bacon on it, other meats, but no veggies. With a Dr. Pepper in a can!
As for a hamburger, I love it well-done, lettuce, tomatoes, cheese, bacon, little bit of mayo, and a tiny bit of ketchup and mustard.
Budweiser is king for me; I don't give a crap about quality.:)
Your loss.
The Gunslinger45
04-03-16, 04:41 PM
Budweiser is king for me; I don't give a crap about quality.:)
At least your beer is popular. I have to go to the hood to get my booze. lol
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 05:07 PM
How would you all feel about alcohol if a drunk driver killed someone close to you?
Miss Vicky
04-03-16, 05:15 PM
I'd probably feel the same as I do now: Blame the person, not the drink.
How would you all feel about alcohol if a drunk driver killed someone close to you?
That wouldn't change how I feel about drinking. That would only change how I feel about drinking and driving. And I already think drinking and driving is one of the stupidest things a person can do. But I would feel even more strongly about it if someone close to me died from it.
My best friend drowned when we were 16. I still love swimming.
christine
04-03-16, 05:17 PM
Can you smuggle me... 20 cases?
For some reason this one pub I go to always lets the Guinness sit after they fill it two thirds. I finally asked them why they do it and they said that most customers complain if they don't. So now I tell them every time, "Don't let it sit, just give it to me right away please."
:D
I would if I could!
You need to let the Guinness settle before you top it up otherwise you'll end up with a head so big you'll be paying for a pint when it'll only be three quarters! They do a two part pour in Ireland, listen to the experts. :D
Guinness is going through a bad time in England at the mo, it's not selling as well as it used to do they're doing 30 litre kegs instead of 50 so it's not hanging around too long as like Chyp says it needs looking after.
Can you smuggle me... 20 cases?
For some reason this one pub I go to always lets the Guinness sit after they fill it two thirds. I finally asked them why they do it and they said that most customers complain if they don't. So now I tell them every time, "Don't let it sit, just give it to me right away please."
:D
I would if I could!
You need to let the Guinness settle before you top it up otherwise you'll end up with a head so big you'll be paying for a pint when it'll only be three quarters! They do a two part pour in Ireland, listen to the experts. :D
Guinness is going through a bad time in England at the mo, it's not selling as well as it used to do they're doing 30 litre kegs instead of 50 so it's not hanging around too long as like Chyp says it needs looking after.
No, that's just pansies who don't like the foam on top. :p
Citizen Rules
04-03-16, 05:22 PM
Guinness is good:)...need I say more?
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/november-1936-night-time-in-piccadilly-circus-london-with-its-neon-picture-id3319343
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 05:29 PM
I don't think I could look at alcohol the same way if it ever really affected my life like that. If a drunk driver killed someone close to me. I couldn't be JUST mad at the driver. I'd hate the alcohol, too. The alcohol messed with their system and it's so readily available everywhere. Something about "forgiving" alcohol after such an occurrence doesn't seem very legit to me. I honestly could imagine myself forgiving the person before I could forgive the alcohol.
Right now, I don't particularly hate alcohol, but I just thought to myself.... if it ever affected my life like that, I imagine I'd probably hate it. Then I'd probably drink some bourbon and hate myself for drinking it.
christine
04-03-16, 05:56 PM
No, that's just pansies who don't like the foam on top. :p
No no it's an art. Just ask an Irish bar person!
I remember we used to have Dublin Guinness in Liverpool. When I went to live in London and had Park Royal Guinness brewed in London it was totally different. I think it's the Guinness in the UK is brewed back in Dublin now though.
Omnizoa
04-03-16, 06:19 PM
I don't think I could look at alcohol the same way if it ever really affected my life like that. If a drunk driver killed someone close to me. I couldn't be JUST mad at the driver. I'd hate the alcohol, too. The alcohol messed with their system and it's so readily available everywhere. Something about "forgiving" alcohol after such an occurrence doesn't seem very legit to me. I honestly could imagine myself forgiving the person before I could forgive the alcohol.
Right now, I don't particularly hate alcohol, but I just thought to myself.... if it ever affected my life like that, I imagine I'd probably hate it. Then I'd probably drink some bourbon and hate myself for drinking it.
Interesting.
Chypmunk
04-03-16, 06:23 PM
The art of Guinness is primarily in the bar staff being able to gauge the capacity required by their patrons and there always being a ready supply of pints in the various stages of being poured so there is often little to no wait time in a good bar. Anybody that drinks in a bar that can't manage that with their Guinness (outside of just having opened or being met with a sudden inrush of Guinness drinkers) fully deserves to either wait for it to be poured correctly or enjoy the pint of execrable slop they have asked for and never know the truly beautiful taste of the black stuff.
If the bar staff are not up to scratch in terms of anticipating demand but do know how to pour a pint correctly then the simple solution for the experienced Guinness drinker is to wait for the first pint accordingly and thereafter order subsequent ones five minutes prior to needing them.
Omnizoa
04-03-16, 06:28 PM
The art of Guinness is primarily in the bar staff being able to gauge the capacity required by their patrons and there always being a ready supply of pints in the various stages of being poured so there is often little to no wait time in a good bar. Anybody that drinks in a bar that can't manage that with their Guinness (outside of just having opened or being met with a sudden inrush of Guinness drinkers) fully deserves to either wait for it to be poured correctly or enjoy the pint of execrable slop they have asked for and never know the truly beautiful taste of the black stuff.
If the bar staff are not up to scratch in terms of anticipating demand but do know how to pour a pint correctly then the simple solution for the experienced Guinness drinker is to wait for the first pint accordingly and thereafter order subsequent ones five minutes prior to needing them.
Drinking sounds too complicated.
Miss Vicky
04-03-16, 06:50 PM
The alcohol messed with their system and it's so readily available everywhere. Something about "forgiving" alcohol after such an occurrence doesn't seem very legit to me. I honestly could imagine myself forgiving the person before I could forgive the alcohol.
That just strikes me as bizarre.
The negative effects of alcohol and the potential for deadly consequences if you get behind the wheel while under its affects are not a secret. That person - knowing full well what could happen - chose to consume alcohol and then drive while still affected by it. They chose to turn their vehicle into a deadly weapon because they couldn't be bothered to call a friend or a taxi for a ride home.
Meanwhile, plenty of other responsible people choose to call for a ride, or don't go out and drink unless they're accompanied by a designated driver, or they drink at home, or drink at a friend's house and then stay the night. And there's nothing wrong with these things.
In any case, I wouldn't be forgiving alcohol. There's nothing to forgive as far as it's concerned. People are 100% to blame for their own choices and their own actions.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 07:10 PM
The negative effects of alcohol and the potential for deadly consequences if you get behind the wheel while under its affects are not a secret. That person - knowing full well what could happen - chose to consume alcohol and then drive while still affected by it. They chose to turn their vehicle into a deadly weapon because they couldn't be bothered to call a friend or a taxi for a ride home.
Meanwhile, plenty of other responsible people choose to call for a ride, or don't go out and drink unless they're accompanied by a designated driver, or they drink at home, or drink at a friend's house and then stay the night. And there's nothing wrong with these things.
In any case, I wouldn't be forgiving alcohol. There's nothing to forgive as far as it's concerned. People are 100% to blame for their own choices and their own actions.
Yeah, well, you still believe in free will. I don't. I think the alcohol is out there, readily available, and it's going to do a lot of damage. It's available to irresponsible people. It doesn't have to be.
Now I'm not here calling for it to be banned.... but I can understand those who want it to be. I can imagine myself hating it if it really affected my life -- and you know what? I would not at all be surprised if you changed your tune if alcohol killed someone close to you.
I could probably forgive a drunk driver because even though a drunk driver made the mistake of drinking while driving.... that drunk driver didn't legalize alcohol, didn't stock it on the store shelves, didn't make alcohol this "great thing" that everybody's got to try. Alcohol's a dangerous thing. If you all can be pissed that guns aren't illegal, why aren't you pissed that alcohol isn't illegal? It kills people, too. In its own way. It's a seductive, alluring poison that gets people into trouble and ruins lives. And we're tolerating that.
So, no, I'm not going to let alcohol off the hook if it ever causes someone to ruin my life or someone else's life. That stuff isn't some innocent little chemical to me. It's a dangerous drug. It can be responsibly used, but it's still a dangerous drug.
Miss Vicky
04-03-16, 07:47 PM
Yeah, well, you still believe in free will. I don't. I think the alcohol is out there, readily available, and it's going to do a lot of damage. It's available to irresponsible people. [B]It doesn't have to be.
I knew you were going to counter with some BS "There's no such thing as free will rant." :rolleyes:
I could probably forgive a drunk driver because even though a drunk driver made the mistake of drinking while driving.... that drunk driver didn't legalize alcohol, didn't stock it on the store shelves, didn't make alcohol this "great thing" that everybody's got to try.
I grew up in the same country you did with all the same influences from media and friends and I never thought of it as "some great thing that everybody's got to try."
Personally I find it sickening that you are so forgiving of the drunk driver. It wasn't a mistake. A mistake is forgetting where you put your cell phone or making an error in calculating a math problem. Getting behind the wheel while intoxicated is a stupid, irresponsible, dangerous, reprehensible CHOICE.
Alcohol's a dangerous thing. If you all can be pissed that guns aren't illegal, why aren't you pissed that alcohol isn't illegal? It kills people, too. In its own way. It's a seductive, alluring poison that gets people into trouble and ruins lives. And we're tolerating that.
Alcohol is a dangerous thing only when it's abused. In moderation, it can be a social lubricant, a way to relax and relieve stress and, for wine drinkers, there are a number of health benefits as well.
So, no, I'm not going to let alcohol off the hook if it ever causes someone to ruin my life or someone else's life. That stuff isn't some innocent little chemical to me. It's a dangerous drug. It can be responsibly used, but it's still a dangerous drug.
Alcohol won't ruin your life. The person who consumes it irresponsibly - whether that person is a drunk driver or yourself if you're irresponsible with it - is the one who will ruin your life.
In any case, I'm about to eat dinner. And I think I'll wash it down with some sparkling wine... oops, I meant seductive, alluring poison. :rolleyes:
AboveTheClouds
04-03-16, 07:50 PM
Yeah, well, you still believe in free will. I don't. I think the alcohol is out there, readily available, and it's going to do a lot of damage. It's available to irresponsible people. It doesn't have to be.
Now I'm not here calling for it to be banned.... but I can understand those who want it to be. I can imagine myself hating it if it really affected my life -- and you know what? I would not at all be surprised if you changed your tune if alcohol killed someone close to you.
I could probably forgive a drunk driver because even though a drunk driver made the mistake of drinking while driving.... that drunk driver didn't legalize alcohol, didn't stock it on the store shelves, didn't make alcohol this "great thing" that everybody's got to try. Alcohol's a dangerous thing. If you all can be pissed that guns aren't illegal, why aren't you pissed that alcohol isn't illegal? It kills people, too. In its own way. It's a seductive, alluring poison that gets people into trouble and ruins lives. And we're tolerating that.
So, no, I'm not going to let alcohol off the hook if it ever causes someone to ruin my life or someone else's life. That stuff isn't some innocent little chemical to me. It's a dangerous drug. It can be responsibly used, but it's still a dangerous drug.
I had a cousin who died when I was in high school because she got into a car with a drunk driver(her boyfriend) and he crashed. To blame alcohol for her death is just silly and lacks any rational thought. She made the decision to get in the car and because she made the incorrect choice she died, there's nothing else to it. The driver made the decision to drink and drive and my cousin made the decision to ride with him.
Would you hate knives and refuse to cut your supper if someone in your family was murdered with a knife? I know that's taking it a bit far, but they both seem equally ludicrous to me. You can't blame a gun for shooting someone, it's incorrect usage or malicious intent on behalf of the owner.
If someone you knew drank too much, got alcohol poisoning and died from it, I could understand a personal vendetta against it, but it's kind of impossible for things without sentience to actually do something wrong of their own volition. Alcohol cannot be in the wrong, only the person using it irresponsibly.
Also if alcohol is such a dangerous thing, than maybe we should ban sunlight/UV rays as well, because it's proven to give people cancer and has taken many, many lives! Or maybe we should ban not getting enough sleep, because people die all the time from work/traffic related accidents that could have been prevented had they only gotten an acceptable 8-10 hours of sleep.:rolleyes:.
/Waits for torch bearing hordes.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 07:58 PM
I knew you were going to counter with some BS "There's no such thing as free will rant." :rolleyes:
Yes. It's reality. We have no free will. You're a robot. Deal with it.
I grew up in the same country you did with all the same influences from media and friends and I never thought of it as "some great thing that everybody's got to try."
Many people do. Maybe it didn't happen to you, but that's you.
Personally I find it sickening that you are so forgiving of the drunk driver.
Really?
So if Funny Face got drunk and ran over your mother (or some other important family member), or vice versa, you'd never even consider forgiving them? I'd find it sickening that you can't forgive. Disturbing, even.
It wasn't a mistake. A mistake is forgetting where you put your cell phone or making an error in calculating a math problem. Getting behind the wheel while intoxicated is a stupid, irresponsible, dangerous, reprehensible CHOICE.
I'm not saying it isn't. I am not condoning drunk driving at all. I was merely saying I'm not going to condone and forgive ALCOHOL for its role in the whole mess.
Alcohol is a dangerous thing only when it's abused. In moderation, it can be a social lubricant, a way to relax and relieve stress and, for wine drinkers, there are a number of health benefits as well.
Yes, well, that's your feelings about it.
Alcohol won't ruin your life.
It absolutely could to a degree. You don't even have to drive drunk. You could simply be an alcoholic. That'll ruin your life in ways, too.
The person who consumes it irresponsibly - whether that person is a drunk driver or yourself if you're irresponsible with it - is the one who will ruin your life.
Yes. The person can take the blame for it, as well. But so can alcohol itself.
In any case, I'm about to eat dinner. And I think I'll wash it down with some sparkling wine... oops, I meant seductive, alluring poison. :rolleyes:
Enjoy.
Miss Vicky
04-03-16, 08:12 PM
Yes. It's reality. We have no free will. You're a robot. Deal with it.
You believe people make choices, yet have no free will. That's pretty damn illogical and contradictory.
I'm not saying it isn't. I am not condoning drunk driving at all. I was merely saying I'm not going to condone and forgive ALCOHOL for its role in the whole mess.
You absolutely are.
So if Funny Face got drunk and ran over your mother (or some other important family member), or vice versa, you'd never even consider forgiving them?
No, I would not forgive that. Ever. That would be the end of any association I'd have with FF. Obviously I wouldn't cut my mother out of my life for doing that, but I wouldn't forgive her choices either.
But fortunately I won't ever be in that situation. My mother drinks responsibly. If she's had alcohol or prescription painkillers, she doesn't get behind the wheel. Period. My father and brother don't drink at all.
And I don't stay friends with drunken morons. Funny Face is a responsible drinker. She doesn't get behind the wheel while under the influence. None of my friends do or they wouldn't be my friends.
It absolutely could to a degree. You don't even have to drive drunk. You could simply be an alcoholic. That'll ruin your life in ways, too.
Alcoholics still choose to drink and are ruining their own lives - and potentially the lives of their families - by doing so.
Enjoy.
I am.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 08:16 PM
I had a cousin who died when I was in high school because she got into a car with a drunk driver(her boyfriend) and he crashed. To blame alcohol for her death is just silly and lacks any rational thought. She made the decision to get in the car and because she made the incorrect choice she died, there's nothing else to it. The driver made the decision to drink and drive and my cousin made the decision to ride with him.
I am sorry for your loss. It's a tragic situation and I do think the driver was at fault. But it doesn't make alcohol look any better. They were affected by it and it ruined their lives.
Would you hate knives and refuse to cut your supper if someone in your family was murdered with a knife? I know that's taking it a bit far, but they both seem equally ludicrous to me.
I've already considered the knife thing on my own, so I figured this was coming. I don't feel knives and alcohol are really on equal footing here. Maybe it's a case of necessity -- knives, cars, etc. are things most people need access to. Is alcohol really something that everybody needs? I mean, that's the whole issue of this thread - "How important is alcohol to you?" And the majority said, "Not that important." Ask everyone how important knives and cars are to them. I don't think the majority would say "not that important."
You can't blame a gun for shooting someone, it's incorrect usage or malicious intent on behalf of the owner.
But you can blame their legalization status in the country, and a lot of people are calling for guns to be illegal everywhere. Guns and alcohol are two very deadly legal things here. Mind you -- my position isn't that they need to be banned. I'm just talking about the possibility. About the fact that these things ARE super deadly things that many people do use responsibly, but not EVERYBODY.
If someone you knew drank too much, got alcohol poisoning and died from it, I could understand a personal vendetta against it, but it's kind of impossible for things without sentience to actually do something wrong of their own volition. Alcohol cannot be in the wrong, only the person using it irresponsibly.
But we could be acting irresponsibly by letting people have easy access to it. By condoning it and legalizing it. This could turn out to be a very stupid thing our civilization is condoning right now in our time period -- letting people drink alcohol. I'm not saying it is.... but.... it does have its many faults. And I'm not willing to believe it's always absolutely perfectly fine. It's a dangerous substance on the planet. Maybe we should not be putting so much of it into our bodies, maybe we should not be allowing people to have easy access to it.
Also if alcohol is such a dangerous thing, than maybe we should ban sunlight/UV rays as well, because it's proven to give people cancer and has taken many, many lives!
Possibly something could be done about it.
Or maybe we should ban not getting enough sleep, because people die all the time from work/traffic related accidents that could have been prevented had they only gotten an acceptable 8-10 hours of sleep.:rolleyes:.
Something could be done about that, too. Yes.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 08:30 PM
You believe people make choices, yet have no free will. That's pretty damn illogical and contradictory.
I believe we make choices, but choices are illusions. Read Free Will by Sam Harris or watch one of his lectures on Youtube. Take a leap and try to learn something new. Your stubborn refusal to try is an unconscious attempt to not let your illusions shatter. But if you can decide to be an atheist, you can certainly handle this. You let go of God. Let go of your illusion of control.
I am not condoning drunk driving at all.
You absolutely are.
No I'm not. How ignorant and rude of you to even say so. You think I wanna tell everybody to just go out and get drunk and drive all over the place? No. All I'm saying is alcohol isn't blameless. You can blame the person, but I think you can blame alcohol itself, too. It's there. People made it legal to use and it's dangerous.
No, I would not forgive that. Ever. That would be the end of any association I'd have with FF. Obviously I wouldn't cut my mother out of my life for doing that, but I wouldn't forgive her choices either.
I see. So Funny Face doesn't get a second chance, but your mother might. Okay.
But fortunately I won't ever be in that situation. My mother drinks responsibly. If she's had alcohol or prescription painkillers, she doesn't get behind the wheel. Period.
Good for her. But sometimes, people still screw up.
Alcoholics still choose to drink and are ruining their own lives - and potentially the lives of their families - by doing so.
Yes, but, like I said, choice is an illusion. I could possibly forgive a drunk driver. I'm not saying I absolutely will -- I'm not there and I don't know how it'll really feel. I hope I never do. Is it really so terrible to forgive a drunk driver? Religious people forgive, don't they? God and Jesus are supposed to be forgiving. Why can't Sexy Celebrity be forgiving?
I am.
Good.
Don't drink much :nope: when I do only drink http://www.e-moticone.com/emoticone/nouvel-an/champ.gif
Miss Vicky
04-03-16, 08:49 PM
I believe we make choices, but choices are illusions.
If they're illusions, then the person making those "choices" is blameless for them. Or else your logic completely fails.
Read Free Will by Sam Harris or watch one of his lectures on Youtube. Take a leap and try to learn something new. Your stubborn refusal to try is an unconscious attempt to not let your illusions shatter.
I've read enough of your lectures to know that I still disagree with the theory, I don't need to read or listen to Sam Harris to confirm that.
But if you can decide to be an atheist, you can certainly handle this. You let go of God. Let go of your illusion of control.
I "let go of God" because my belief in him was based only on being told that he existed. It was never true faith. Now you're telling me to go read or listen to Sam Harris so that I can be told that free will doesn't exist. I think I'll pass as I see no difference in either. I don't need to read the Bible or attend church to know that I don't believe in God.
I believe in choices because I've experienced for myself the results of the choices I've made and I've seen the results of choices others have made.
No I'm not. How ignorant and rude of you to even say so. You think I wanna tell everybody to just go out and get drunk and drive all over the place?
Please look up the definition of "condone." I never said that you encouraged the behavior.
I see. So Funny Face doesn't get a second chance, but your mother might. Okay.
My mother would get a second chance because there's no way cut her out of my life without also cutting every other family member I have out of it as well. I'm not going to punish my entire family for the actions of one person.
My friends, on the other hand, are not friends with each other.
Is it really so terrible to forgive a drunk driver? Religious people forgive, don't they? God and Jesus are supposed to be forgiving. Why can't Sexy Celebrity be forgiving?
You have the right to DECIDE to forgive. I have the right to DECIDE not to. Is it really so terrible to not forgive someone for making a dangerous and irresponsible decision that could potentially result in the end or their life and the lives anyone on the road or in the car with them? I don't think it is. But you seem to think that I'm disgusting for doing so, which makes you no better than me. You can get off your high horse now.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 09:15 PM
If they're illusions, then the person making those "choices" is blameless for them. Or else your logic completely fails.
I think that on a very basic level, everybody's blameless for everything they do. Sam Harris even calls for less criminal punishments because of this. That still doesn't mean you can't be mad at people for their actions, and I certainly know how to hold a grudge. I'm not an all forgiving saint. But, I do think that alcohol can cause great damage and it's out there and available for people to create that damage. So the possibility of forgiving a drunk driver.... is a possibility. Of course I may not forgive them. We're all emotional beings. I could certainly get mad as Hell. I'm sure I would be. But I still might not feel too good about alcohol, either.
I've read enough of your lectures to know that I still disagree with the theory, I don't need to read or listen to Sam Harris to confirm that.
Well, that's you. I can't make you change.
I "let go of God" because my belief in him was based only on being told that he existed. It was never true faith. Now you're telling me to go read or listen to Sam Harris so that I can be told that free will doesn't exist. I think I'll pass as I see no difference in either. I don't need to read the Bible or attend church to know that I don't believe in God.
*shrugs* It's a science thing. It makes sense to me. That's all I have to say.
I believe in choices because I've experienced for myself the results of the choices I've made and I've seen the results of choices others have made.
Choices are very real things. I was saying the decision making process that goes on in our head... the idea of "agency" I think they call it.... the idea that we're in charge, that we're creating and designing the choice of our own free will.... I'm saying we don't decide on what we decide. Everything that I'm writing to you right now.... is like a calculation going on in my head. That's why I said we're like robots. You can't really control what you calculate -- what you do and say next. The illusion is it feels like we're in charge, but we're not. Our brain is doing it. It's in charge.
Anyway, I'm finding the idea of talking about it with you kinda pointless 'cause I predict you still won't want to understand. And that's a decision I'm experiencing right now that I can't control. The decision to tell you that, to feel this way.
My mother would get a second chance because there's no way cut her out of my life without also cutting every other family member I have out of it as well. I'm not going to punish my entire family for the actions of one person.
My friends, on the other hand, are not friends with each other.
But would you really have to be unforgiving towards Funny Face if she got drunk and accidentally ran over your mother? Okay, so maybe you don't talk to her for a year. Maybe two years. Maybe five. Or ten. But what if she really didn't mean it to happen? What if it was a terrible, terrible, terrible mistake and she really wants to somehow make amends? What if she dies an old woman with a lot of love in her heart for you and for your mother and your family.... but you could never let her into your life again? Your mother's gone, but Funny Face is still there. And maybe she didn't intend to kill your mother. It's not like it was outright murder. It was just a little drunk driving. Couldn't you eventually look past it and think.... that damn alcohol.... this wouldn't have happened if not for that damn alcohol.
You have the right to DECIDE to forgive. I have the right to DECIDE not to. Is it really so terrible to not forgive someone for making a dangerous and irresponsible decision that could potentially result in the end or their lives and the lives anyone on the road or in the car with them? I don't think it is. But you seem to think that I'm disgusting for doing so, which makes you no better than me. You can get off your high horse now.
You have the right to not forgive. Of course. Some things are unforgivable. I understand. BUT, maybe forgiving could be a good thing that helps your life, too. That's all I'm saying.
I think that on a very basic level, everybody's blameless for everything they do. Sam Harris even calls for less criminal punishments because of this.
Isn't this the kind of logic that would cause is to have more severe punishments? Like killing murderers and cutting off the hands off thieves and the sex organs of sex offenders/ Since there is no chance of rehabilitation.
The illusion is it feels like we're in charge, but we're not. Our brain is doing it. It's in charge.
:coleman:
Daniel M
04-03-16, 09:41 PM
Isn't this the kind of logic that would cause is to have more severe punishments? Like killing murderers and cutting off the hands off thieves and the sex organs of sex offenders/ Since there is no chance of rehabilitation.
How would there be no chance of rehabilitation? People do things for reasons, but if they had rehabilitation therapy or whatever, that could be the a massive factor in their later decisions. I actually think I agree with SC on this one, your brain is constantly taking things in and making complex calculations if you like on everything your body needs to do.
I think a lot of people make the mistake of seeing our brains and our mind/ourselfs as the same thing. The brain is an actual physical thing that has the power to do lots of incredible things, store information and make decisions, but it is not the same thing as our mind, like our feelings, I think. It just constantly feeds ourselves with what to do, controlling our bodies.
How would there be no chance of rehabilitation? People do things for reasons, but if they had rehabilitation therapy or whatever, that could be the a massive factor in their later decisions. I actually think I agree with SC on this one, your brain is constantly taking things in and making complex calculations if you like on everything your body needs to do.
I think a lot of people make the mistake of seeing our brains and our mind/ourselfs as the same thing. The brain is an actual physical thing that has the power to do lots of incredible things, story information and make decisions, but it is not the same thing as our mind, like our feelings, I think. It just constantly feeds ourselves with what to do, controlling our bodies.
If we have no power over our minds, how could we possibly begin to rehabilitate one?
If you take away our brain, then we would have free will?
You think I'm putting to much stock in the brain, I don't think you're putting enough in it. I don't see the logic here at all.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 09:56 PM
The mind is, I guess you'd say, a byproduct of the brain. It's like... the illusion the brain creates that the human body is a person. Our identity is based largely on the outside world, in one way. In another way, it's based on our own internal world. The mind helps us navigate through life. But the functions and controls of that mind.... are not controlled by us. Everything's controlled by operations outside of our conscious awareness. Operations that happen in our brain. Operations that steer the mind to go in certain directions. The "no free will" thing is the fact that WE are not doing the steering. We are merely a computer program (our mind, our conscious awareness) that is being steered. Like, say, if I ask you -- think of a completely random movie. What movie comes to mind? I thought of The War of the Roses. That 1989 movie with Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas. WHY did I think of that movie of all things? I've never even seen it. But for some strange reason, my mind thought of the image of the poster of Kathleen and Michael sitting up in bed. I have NO IDEA why. But an operation in my mind made me think of it.
Where do you get your identity from? How does your brain get the information it has?
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 10:10 PM
Where do you get your identity from? How does your brain get the information it has?
Well, let's see.... you're called Sean. I assume your parents named you that.
I assume you have male genitalia so you probably based a lot of your identity on being a man. You went to school and read books and watched movies and listened to music.... you had experiences all throughout your life.... all of that makes who you are.
Daniel M
04-03-16, 10:13 PM
If we have no power over our minds, how could we possibly begin to rehabilitate one?
If you take away our brain, then we would have free will?
You think I'm putting to much stock in the brain, I don't think you're putting enough in it. I don't see the logic here at all.
No, we do have power indirectly. Just not total control. You rehabilitate someone and the brain will take in the information and use it to make decisions for the mind. It's like an extension, as SC says.
If we didn't have a brain, then we wouldn't feel anything, we wouldn't be alive. So I'm struggling to really picture a scenario where we can free ourselves from the brain. I can maybe picture in the future, if everyone was to stop believing in life before/after death, people would think more about the reality that the brain creates for us, and would find more efficient ways to be free and enjoy the beauty of life, use the opportunity that we have with senses instead of focussing so much on brain.
Where do you get your identity from? How does your brain get the information it has?
It's just random. You are just seeing/experiencing the life of a random person, pretty much, that's what I think. It's hard to explain in words. But I do think we are just like computers, robots.
Like, if a computer was made, technically, the computer has a life, it didn't exist before it was made, and won't after it is broken/destroyed. The computer has a brain of sorts, but it's programmed in a way that stops it from taking in information and thinking for itself, to the extent that the human body does. Even though AI and stuff is changing and developing greatly so that perhaps it could do in the future. It doesn't have sense in the way that the human body does, it's a machine that we design and the inputs and outputs limit its functionality. We have our own inputs and outputs, the senses (that's where the brain gathers information, memories), namely, and the fact we can control our arms, legs, speaking. The human brain has developed over thousands of years to adapt, to evolve to the stage where we are at now, how something is able to change, add things to itself, without input from a designer (like we are to computers) I don't know. But I believe just like computers, we have our lifes, and nothing before and after. We were dead before we were born, but didn't know it, you can never be conscious of being unconscious. Once our brain dies, we die with it. Why do I see out of my eyes and you see out of yours? I don't know, like I said, I think it's just random. But I do think that the brain and just the way the human body has evolved to such an advanced stage of sharing information, has gave us the illusion that we are unique and something greater than what we are. The consciousness and brain sets us apart from other species.
Nostromo87
04-03-16, 10:14 PM
i do think we have some level of control over our mind and what we do, but i think i understand the spirit of what sexy's saying, and i have an example
sometimes i wake up in the middle of the night bc i have to take a pi$$, but i tell myself- i don't want to get out of bed. i want to keep sleeping. so i stay there in bed, but then, all of a sudden, i'm standing up and walking to the john to take a pi$$. and i'm like 'hmm, how did that happen?' it's like, even though *I* *ME* my control told me i want to stay in bed. somehow my brain knew SHUT UP, it's time to go take a pi$$. and then i'm like *oh, i get it. this feels better. thank you brain*
https://media.giphy.com/media/PqT2IuthQib04/giphy.gif
and then i go back to sleep
As a person who drinks pretty rarely (i.e. once or twice a year) I don't take drinking very seriously at all. I personally couldn't justify the expense on a regular basis. I drink scotch mostly and here they are $10 for a 600ml bottle which considering I have a fairly high tolerance for alcohol means it's at least $100- $150 for a night out on the town with dinner and drinks. It's a lot of money to spend to feel like crud the next day (or at my age two days). I'd rather buy a new game or several burgers.
Daniel M
04-03-16, 10:16 PM
I was replying to the identity question in the sense of, why am I me? Why do I see out of these eyes, why not another person's? Surely my individuality and fact I am this person counts for something?
But if you mean identity just as in who you are, as in what type of person, yeah what SC says, just everything that happens in your life... there are always things that have gone before you, so your immediately exposed to so much information.
Well, let's see.... you're called Sean. I assume your parents named you that.
I assume you have male genitalia so you probably based a lot of your identity on being a man. You went to school and read books and watched movies and listened to music.... you had experiences all throughout your life.... all of that makes who you are.
Who made computers again?
The logic is circular, you guys are too smart not to see that. There is a reason you have a hard time seeing us seperate from our brains.
Well, let's see.... you're called Sean. I assume your parents named you that.
I assume you have male genitalia so you probably based a lot of your identity on being a man. You went to school and read books and watched movies and listened to music.... you had experiences all throughout your life.... all of that makes who you are.
Right, me and my life experiences put all the information into the thing I have no control over.
Daniel M
04-03-16, 10:25 PM
Who made computers again?
The logic is circular, you guys are too smart not to see that. There is a reason you have a hard time seeing us seperate from our brains.
Humans... and I address the point about a creator in my post. But I don't see how it affects the argument about the functionality of human bodies and the seperation of a physical control box and the ability to experience life itself.
Right, me and my life experiences put all the information into the thing I have no control over.
Your mind experiences things through senses, but memories, analyse, links, relationships etc are stored in the brain. The brain just keeps track of your experiences, its constantly communicating with what your experiencing right now and helping you choose what to do next. I think your reading this slightly the wrong way, you make choices over what you experience and goes in your brain, but even they are pre determined by what you've already experienced. The brain and "mind/life-experience" work simultaneously together and feel as one.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 10:28 PM
What the Hell is happening to this thread? This went from alcohol, to pizza, to brains/no free will.
Humans... and I address the point about a creator in my post. But I don't see how it affects the argument about the functionality of human bodies and the seperation of a physical control box and the ability to experience life itself.
Your mind experiences things through senses, but memories, analyse, links, relationships etc are stored in the brain. The brain just keeps track of your experiences, its constantly communicating with what your experiencing right now and helping you choose what to do next. I think your reading this slightly the wrong way, you make choices over what you experience and goes in your brain, but even they are pre determined by what you've already experienced. The brain and "mind/life-experience" work simultaneously together and feel as one.
Saying I make choices based on my life experiences and the things that my brain has stored is very different than saying I have no choice in the matter whatsoever. Your argument is basically that free will stops once I get to a certain point in brain function, not that I never had free will at all.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 10:30 PM
To wild fantasies of Funny Face running over Miss Vicky's mother in a drunk driving accident, causing Miss Vicky to hate her forever and Funny Face living a solitary life out in the middle of nowhere, in a little house, crying over what she did. I mean, that played like a movie in my mind.
What the Hell is happening to this thread? This went from alcohol, to pizza, to brains/no free will.
Free will happened. ;) I have to get out for the night. Talk to you guys tomorrow.
Daniel M
04-03-16, 10:34 PM
No, you never had free will, that's what I think. You have choices, and your free to choose what you want, and you will consider things and do what you think is right, but see, even the definition of what is right, is based on stuff you will have experienced through life. Every decision has a guaranteed outcome because of the person you are. All I'm saying is you're not fully aware/conscious of what choice you might be about to make, but your brain/mind is (things like your subconsciousness and that). I don't think having no free will means you don't get a say in things, it just means that you will always make a certain choice for certain reasons.
Cobpyth
04-03-16, 10:37 PM
Alcohol isn't really that important to me. It's just a very frequent presence in my life right now,.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 10:37 PM
In a few years, everyone here will be talking about how they have no free will while watching President Donald Trump give a speech on television. I used to be all alone with this -- now I have Daniel. And maybe even Cobpyth -- I heard he likes Sam Harris now.
Miss Vicky
04-03-16, 10:40 PM
I love that, in your arrogance, you assume that because I don't agree with your beliefs, that means I don't understand them. I get what you're saying, but I do not and never will share in these ideas. Just as I will never convert to Christianity.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 10:41 PM
i do think we have some level of control over our mind and what we do, but i think i understand the spirit of what sexy's saying, and i have an example
sometimes i wake up in the middle of the night bc i have to take a pi$$, but i tell myself- i don't want to get out of bed. i want to keep sleeping. so i stay there in bed, but then, all of a sudden, i'm standing up and walking to the john to take a pi$$. and i'm like 'hmm, how did that happen?' it's like, even though *I* *ME* my control told me i want to stay in bed. somehow my brain knew SHUT UP, it's time to go take a pi$$. and then i'm like *oh, i get it. this feels better. thank you brain*
https://media.giphy.com/media/PqT2IuthQib04/giphy.gif
and then i go back to sleep
You coulda possibly stayed in bed and maybe even wet the bed, but your particular brain decided to get up and go pee.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 10:42 PM
I love that, in your arrogance, you assume that because I don't agree with your beliefs, that means I don't understand them. I get what you're saying, but I do not and never will share in these ideas.
Can I ask why?
Can you convince me why my ideas are wrong?
Miss Vicky
04-03-16, 10:47 PM
I love that, in your arrogance, you assume that because I don't agree with your beliefs, that means I don't understand them. I get what you're saying, but I do not and never will share in these ideas.
Can I ask why?
Can you convince me why my ideas are wrong?
No, I can't convince you that they are wrong anymore than you can convince me that they are right. You call it "a science thing" but the reality is that it's nothing more than a set of personal beliefs, not unlike a religion.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 10:52 PM
No, I can't convince you that they are wrong anymore than you can convince me that they are right. You call it "a science thing" but the reality is that it's nothing more than a set of personal beliefs, not unlike a religion.
Science sometimes says things that are wrong, and science can even say things now that I think are wrong.... this particular science-y thing is something I happen to agree with. But if you want to disagree, I can't stop you. Please agree eventually, though. Thank you.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 11:01 PM
I do, however, wonder why you think you even NEED free will, though -- especially if you're an atheist.
I mean, if you can believe there's no God.... and that when we die, we completely disappear.... why can't you believe in the idea that there's no free will and that we don't actually have control over ourselves? That everything is just an illusion of control. I wonder why that's so terrible -- just to know you have an illusion of control. Especially to an atheist. You can disagree with the science.... but I wonder why. It just seems like you're desperately clinging on to a need to have control. It even makes me wonder if deep down, you might even be desperately clinging on to the hope that there is a God. Even though you claim you don't believe in a God.
Nostromo87
04-03-16, 11:06 PM
i don't think this thread will ever come to a conclusion or an agreement on all the things we've brought up, but i just took a leak on movieforums. we should come up with a checklist of things you have to do on here before your MoFo career is complete. so i could check one off mine
✓ get drunk on movieforums
✓ take a wizz on movieforums
that kinda thing
Miss Vicky
04-03-16, 11:13 PM
I mean, if you can believe there's no God.... why can't you believe in the idea that there's no free will and that we don't actually have control over ourselves.
According to you, it's because I have no free will and believing in free will and not believing in God is just something my brain did and not something I can control.
So why can't you just accept that my beliefs aren't going to change no matter what argument you make?
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 11:16 PM
According to you, it's because I have no free will and believing in free will and not believing in God is just something my brain did and not something I can control.
Yes. I believe that.
So why can't you just accept that my beliefs aren't going to change no matter what argument you make?
I'll accept it when my brain makes me accept it. I also wonder if maybe it's me -- maybe you won't listen because it's ME bringing you the news. Would she listen if I was Joaquin Phoenix trying to convince her she was a robot? I don't know.
Daniel M
04-03-16, 11:19 PM
You people are completely missing the point when you keep bringing up about how we can't change our beliefs because we have no free will. Your beliefs can change. This is the point, hypothetically you could go off now, read about free will, and come around to agreeing with SC. These were choices you made, but you made them for a reason. You made the choices because SC tried to convince you too, because he told you find out more or whatever, maybe you already have an interest in this sort of stuff that also pushed you. You get what I mean, obviously it's not as simple as that, but having no free will and not being able to make choices and change as a person are different things.
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 11:21 PM
http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=24815&stc=1&d=1459736447
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 11:22 PM
Thing is -- she thinks this sounds religious -- ATHEISM is like a religion itself!
Daniel M
04-03-16, 11:26 PM
I do agree, like I said in the profile comments, it can come across as a bit cult-esque :p
Sexy Celebrity
04-03-16, 11:28 PM
I do agree, like I said in the profile comments, it can come across as a bit cult-esque :p
ANYTHING can.
I don't believe in Free Will either, but blaming alcohol for a drunk driver killing someone close to you is just an inherent blame fallacy.
Most people who argue for Free Will don't really understand what it means. Free Will is Arminian theology, and Grace is Calvanist theology. Free Will means that God gives us a choice to believe in him or reject him, and God doesn't control our choice, or know what choice we'll make. We're saved if we make the right choice. Grace means we can't make the right choice, but God chooses to save us by enabling us to believe in him, and Grace means that God knows every choice we will ever make because he knows everything.
The Bible says God knows everything and he never changes. So if God knows everything, he knows what choice we will make. Can we make any choice other than what he already knows we will make? How can we?
Not having free will does not mean that we are not responsible for our choices. It just means that we don't have control over our own destiny, someone else does, a higher power.
People make their choice when driving drunk, it's illegal. My friend always leaves his car in town and walks back home when we drink, that's one of things people do, so why should they be punished? Would you ban movies or video games because some mentally ill person listened to voices in his head and pretended to be Mad Max?
I think you have the right idea Khan. I think it comes down to feelings. People may feel that alcohol is somehow responsible. Those feelings are genuine, but the conclusion is just not a logical one. It's up to individuals to be responsible, and when a great tragedy like the loss of a loved one happens there can be a lot of blame to go around.
As much as I enjoy a nice cold refreshing beer, and a buzz from drinking a bit more, it's still better to be sober. People who don't drink are wiser for it. All that stuff about not being able to live without it was just for a laugh.
Omnizoa
04-04-16, 08:44 AM
I could probably forgive a drunk driver because even though a drunk driver made the mistake of drinking while driving.... that drunk driver didn't legalize alcohol, didn't stock it on the store shelves, didn't make alcohol this "great thing" that everybody's got to try.
I like that.
I grew up in the same country you did with all the same influences from media and friends and I never thought of it as "some great thing that everybody's got to try."
Some parents insist on giving their kids alcohol when they turn 21. You are an exception.
Personally I find it sickening that you are so forgiving of the drunk driver. It wasn't a mistake. A mistake is forgetting where you put your cell phone or making an error in calculating a math problem. Getting behind the wheel while intoxicated is a stupid, irresponsible, dangerous, reprehensible CHOICE.
I would argue that the stupid, irresponsible, dangerous, reprehensible choice was intoxicating themselves in the first place.
Would you hate knives and refuse to cut your supper if someone in your family was murdered with a knife? I know that's taking it a bit far, but they both seem equally ludicrous to me. You can't blame a gun for shooting someone, it's incorrect usage or malicious intent on behalf of the owner.
Taken to another extreme, you can't blame the sentient atomic bomb that you buy at Wal-Mart that whispers sweet nothings of blowing up the world into it's owner's ears.
but it's kind of impossible for things without sentience to actually do something wrong of their own volition. Alcohol cannot be in the wrong, only the person using it irresponsibly.
I think the argument here is the mind-altering effect it has.
I don't feel knives and alcohol are really on equal footing here. Maybe it's a case of necessity -- knives, cars, etc. are things most people need access to. Is alcohol really something that everybody needs? I mean, that's the whole issue of this thread - "How important is alcohol to you?"
Touche.
I "let go of God" because my belief in him was based only on being told that he existed. It was never true faith. Now you're telling me to go read or listen to Sam Harris so that I can be told that free will doesn't exist.
Touche.
I think that on a very basic level, everybody's blameless for everything they do.
Nnnnnnnnnnnya lost me.
I was saying the decision making process that goes on in our head... the idea of "agency" I think they call it.... the idea that we're in charge, that we're creating and designing the choice of our own free will.... I'm saying we don't decide on what we decide. Everything that I'm writing to you right now.... is like a calculation going on in my head. That's why I said we're like robots. You can't really control what you calculate -- what you do and say next. The illusion is it feels like we're in charge, but we're not. Our brain is doing it. It's in charge.
We are our brains, but I get what you're saying. We operate by consequence, if-then-else programming. In that regard, you're right, our choices are individually predictable in that way, however those choices are dependent on our experiences and how we interpret those experiences is up to us. Given an altercation with someone, such as the driver of a drunk driving accident, the agency of choice involved in whether to forgive them or not is on one level existentially meaningless, but on another level limited to our faculties.
Choice is an illusion insofar as every choice we make is a fundamentally consequential response from our brain to a given range of stimuli, but choice isn't an illusion insofar as every choice we make is dependent on our self-aware understanding of what would be a logical response to those same stimuli.
What the Hell is happening to this thread? This went from alcohol, to pizza, to brains/no free will.
Everyone's bending to MY WILL NOW, MUWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
No, you never had free will, that's what I think.
Ultimately, the argument is semantic. WHAT do you refer to as "free will"?
That everything is just an illusion of control. I wonder why that's so terrible -- just to know you have an illusion of control. Especially to an atheist. You can disagree with the science.... but I wonder why.
Well, for one, it's not an infallible truth, the argument is a difference in definition. That we don't share your definition of "free will" is pretty simple: it's not a productive interpretation of the concept. Taken the wrong way, it can be abused and excused.
Free Will means that God gives us a choice to believe in him or reject him,
That would be a third, separate definition.
I don't believe in Free Will either, but blaming alcohol for a drunk driver killing someone close to you is just an inherent blame fallacy.
Most people who argue for Free Will don't really understand what it means. Free Will is Arminian theology, and Grace is Calvanist theology. Free Will means that God gives us a choice to believe in him or reject him, and God doesn't control our choice, or know what choice we'll make. We're saved if we make the right choice. Grace means we can't make the right choice, but God chooses to save us by enabling us to believe in him, and Grace means that God knows every choice we will ever make because he knows everything.
The Bible says God knows everything and he never changes. So if God knows everything, he knows what choice we will make. Can we make any choice other than what he already knows we will make? How can we?
Not having free will does not mean that we are not responsible for our choices. It just means that we don't have control over our own destiny, someone else does, a higher power.
Hey, I know you. I went to college with you for a couple years. ;) Unfortunately your theology eliminates grace because grace ceases to be grace when it is only for you.
No, you never had free will, that's what I think. You have choices, and your free to choose what you want, and you will consider things and do what you think is right, but see, even the definition of what is right, is based on stuff you will have experienced through life. Every decision has a guaranteed outcome because of the person you are. All I'm saying is you're not fully aware/conscious of what choice you might be about to make, but your brain/mind is (things like your subconsciousness and that). I don't think having no free will means you don't get a say in things, it just means that you will always make a certain choice for certain reasons.
I feel like we are having two separate discussions here. One is about free will and the other is about learned behavior and its effect on us. If we are talking about learned behavior, me and you will probably agree more than not. On the subject of free will, I think you're wrong, and you are pretty much saying you're wrong by bringing choice into the discussion. You can try and make me reconcile no free will and choice in my pea brain, but chances are you will be unsuccessful.
See, this is what happens when you guys don't listen to me.
I don't believe in Free Will either, but blaming alcohol for a drunk driver killing someone close to you is just an inherent blame fallacy.
Most people who argue for Free Will don't really understand what it means. Free Will is Arminian theology, and Grace is Calvanist theology. Free Will means that God gives us a choice to believe in him or reject him, and God doesn't control our choice, or know what choice we'll make. We're saved if we make the right choice. Grace means we can't make the right choice, but God chooses to save us by enabling us to believe in him, and Grace means that God knows every choice we will ever make because he knows everything.
The Bible says God knows everything and he never changes. So if God knows everything, he knows what choice we will make. Can we make any choice other than what he already knows we will make? How can we?
Not having free will does not mean that we are not responsible for our choices. It just means that we don't have control over our own destiny, someone else does, a higher power.
Hey, I know you. I went to college with you for a couple years. ;) Unfortunately your theology eliminates grace because grace ceases to be grace when it is only for you.
Lol, I couldn't even make sense of that. Care to explain?
Lol, I couldn't even make sense of that. Care to explain?
Grace is God's gift to everyone, we need only accept it. It is given freely. Your belief system essentially says I won the lottery, I wasn't given grace. You believe in selective choice, not grace.
Miss Vicky
04-04-16, 11:11 AM
Some parents insist on giving their kids alcohol when they turn 21. You are an exception.
I'm an exception in that my parents gave me alcohol long before I was 21 and I thought it was disgusting. Which is probably a contributing factor to why I didn't start drinking at all until a long time later.
I would argue that the stupid, irresponsible, dangerous, reprehensible choice was intoxicating themselves in the first place.
Says the person who doesn't drink at all. :rolleyes:
I consumed nearly an entire bottle of champagne on Oscar night and was quite drunk by the end of it. Was that stupid, irresponsible, dangerous, and reprehensible? No. I didn't leave my house. I was not a danger to myself or to anyone else. I was able to get up the next morning and go to work without any problems. And I don't make a habit of getting drunk.
I'm an exception in that my parents gave me alcohol long before I was 21 and I thought it was disgusting. Which is probably a contributing factor to why I didn't start drinking at all until a long time later.
Says the person who doesn't drink at all. :rolleyes:
I consumed nearly an entire bottle of champagne on Oscar night and was quite drunk by the end of it. Was that stupid, irresponsible, dangerous, and reprehensible? No. I didn't leave my house. I was not a danger to myself or to anyone else. I was able to get up the next morning and go to work without any problems. And I don't make a habit of getting drunk.
I have agreed with your points in theory but surely you know people who are not responsible with their alcohol consumption. Why is this, is it chemical makeup, hereditary, or is it simply these people don't have the self-control you do? Would you say society should play any role in helping these people help themselves? Are you for age limits, time limits on selling, cutting people off in public places?
Miss Vicky
04-04-16, 11:32 AM
Of course there are people who are not responsible with it. There are people who are irresponsible and lack self control in a lot of areas of their lives. Alcohol isn't special.
There's probably some influence from genetics (though I question whether that's truly biological or whether it's more environmental), but I think moreso that there are probably underlying psychological issues with people who have no self control with alcohol. The same holds true for people with who do other things in excess. Is it society's obligation to help them help themselves? Not really, though I am not against giving them some guidance with the limits you put forth.
Of course there are people who are not responsible with it. There are people who are irresponsible and lack self control in a lot of areas of their lives. Alcohol isn't special.
There's probably some influence from genetics (though I question whether that's truly biological or whether it's more environmental), but I think moreso that there are probably underlying psychological issues with people who have no self control with alcohol. The same holds true for people with who do other things in excess. Is it society's obligation to help them help themselves? Not really, though I am not against giving them some guidance with the limits you put forth.
Agreed, and that is my point, there is nuance in the subject. Lots of people do abuse a lot of other things. However drinking too much coffee doesn't have the same implications as drinking too much alcohol. Alcohol is a drug, so the ability for it to not only effect the person abusing it but the people around them is very high. I don't have the answer to where society's responsibility should start and end with these things. I do think they are questions worth talking about and not as open and shut as personal responsibility trumps all.
Omnizoa
04-04-16, 11:54 AM
I'm an exception in that my parents gave me alcohol long before I was 21 and I thought it was disgusting. Which is probably a contributing factor to why I didn't start drinking at all until a long time later.
And some people can't stand Budweiser. *shrugs*
Says the person who doesn't drink at all.
Well, no, think about it. In the sequence of events that lead to that accident, was it the driving part or the drinking part that threw a wrench into the system?
I consumed nearly an entire bottle of champagne on Oscar night and was quite drunk by the end of it. Was that stupid, irresponsible, dangerous, and reprehensible? No. I didn't leave my house. I was not a danger to myself or to anyone else. I was able to get up the next morning and go to work without any problems. And I don't make a habit of getting drunk.
I get that, but just like guns, not everyone maintains enough sensibility by that point.
I am not against giving them some guidance with the limits you put forth.
I AM against age limits.
Drinking: Still safer than Fascism.
https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/693-1210082748-fascism.jpg
Miss Vicky
04-04-16, 12:51 PM
Agreed, and that is my point, there is nuance in the subject. Lots of people do abuse a lot of other things. However drinking too much coffee doesn't have the same implications as drinking too much alcohol. Alcohol is a drug, so the ability for it to not only effect the person abusing it but the people around them is very high. I don't have the answer to where society's responsibility should start and end with these things. I do think they are questions worth talking about and not as open and shut as personal responsibility trumps all.
Of course there's nuance to it. But to me, that doesn't take any of the blame away from personal choice. Regardless of any other factors, abusing alcohol or otherwise being irresponsible with it is still a choice people make.
In the sequence of events that lead to that accident, was it the driving part or the drinking part that threw a wrench into the system?
It's both. Obviously.
You can drink alcohol without putting anyone at risk. You can drive without putting anyone at risk. But you cannot drink alcohol AND drive without putting anyone at risk.
Of course there's nuance to it. But to me, that doesn't take any of the blame away from personal choice. Regardless of any other factors, abusing alcohol or otherwise being irresponsible with it is still a choice people make.
Then why have any restrictions at all?
Miss Vicky
04-04-16, 02:00 PM
Then why have any restrictions at all?
I'm not against restrictions, but I'm not convinced they do any good.
Obligatory
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn187/bdfolsom/m1bPtBX_zpszzupzwpj.gif
Citizen Rules
04-04-16, 02:04 PM
I'm not sure what restrictions you guys are talking about?
My state recently started selling hard liqueur in the grocery stores, which I didn't like. Previously you had to go to the liqueur store to get hard booze.
Obligatory
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn187/bdfolsom/m1bPtBX_zpszzupzwpj.gif
My argument both for and against drinking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwaroatABu4
This is one of those things that can't be restricted, how would you limit it? By hour? All parties are at night, that wouldn't work and people can just buy harder drinks earlier. By age? We already have that. By amount? Just go to two different stores. Banning it would be insane.
I have a feeling people who never got drunk don't understand it, getting drunk =/= something bad, of course you have problematic individuals but you have that in everything.
This is one of those things that can't be restricted, how would you limit it? By hour? All parties are at night, that wouldn't work and people can just buy harder drinks earlier. By age? We already have that. By amount? Just go to two different stores. Banning it would be insane.
I have a feeling people who never got drunk don't understand it, getting drunk =/= something bad, of course you have problematic individuals but you have that in everything.
I don't know if this is directed at me but I'll respond anyway. I'm playing devil's advocate more than anything. I don't know the answer to all the questions but when you're talking about drugs I don't think these questions are without merit. Maybe all the laws in place are all we need, maybe we need less, maybe more. I don't think when you are talking about addictive mind altering substances it is wise to have no restrictions at all. So what restrictions are effective and reasonable are valid questions to ask.
Omnizoa
04-04-16, 05:10 PM
It's both. Obviously.
You can drink alcohol without putting anyone at risk. You can drive without putting anyone at risk. But you cannot drink alcohol AND drive without putting anyone at risk.
At that point then it depends on what the original plan was. If the goal was always to drive, then drinking beforehand was a mistake. If the original plan was to drink, then it was driving.
I have a feeling people who never got drunk don't understand it, getting drunk =/= something bad,
Forfeiting your faculties seems like a bad idea in general, especially when it inhibits your ability to judge what may or may not be a bad idea.
Miss Vicky
04-04-16, 05:32 PM
Intent is irrelevant. Neither action is wrong in and of themselves, both have to take place for it to be a problem.
Omnizoa
04-04-16, 05:59 PM
Intent is irrelevant.
I disagree, but I'm bored of arguing anyway.
matt72582
04-04-16, 06:03 PM
For those who've never tried alcohol, lowered inhibitions is an effect, which is why drunk people think they are fine to drive.
The more interesting thing is how/why this has become the most talked about topic... I rather talk movies or any other issue...
Sexy Celebrity
04-04-16, 07:49 PM
I think that on a very basic level, everybody's blameless for everything they do.
Nnnnnnnnnnnya lost me.
On one level -- if we don't have free will, if we really are not in control of our conscious self because it's our brain that's really doing everything -- you could say.... we're not actually to blame for everything we do. No matter what we do, good and bad things. Everything. If you're a good person and you don't cause trouble, you don't get in drunk driving accidents, etc. -- it's still something you couldn't help doing. No free will. If you're a bad person and you cause trouble and you get in drunk driving accidents, it's still something you couldn't help doing. No free will.
Assigning blame or whatever on a person's actions is an illusion as well. It's all smoke and mirrors. You can put a murderer in jail and call them a bad person, assign blame onto them and punish them for life all you want -- and this isn't necessarily a bad thing, of course -- but really -- if there's no free will, then on some level, everything that happens in the universe, including all of our actions, is free of blame. It's all just random chaos.
This doesn't mean we should go out and kill people because "you won't be at fault." You WILL be at fault.... the randomness of the universe has created the concept of "blame" and bad things. Even if -- if you do bad things -- on some level, you couldn't help it. And if you don't do bad things, you couldn't help that, either. Miss Vicky, for instance, cannot help the way she feels about all this. The randomness of her life created who she is today.
Citizen Rules
04-04-16, 07:53 PM
This thread has brought me to one irrefutable conclusion....Sexy Celebrity and Omnizoa could drive the Pope to drink!
This thread has brought me to one irrefutable conclusion....Sexy Celebrity and Omnizoa could drive the Pope to drink!
Just remember the Pope isn't doing the drinking, his brain is. If you remember that it all makes sense, to your brain not to you.
Citizen Rules
04-04-16, 08:48 PM
Ha!
Grace is God's gift to everyone, we need only accept it. It is given freely. Your belief system essentially says I won the lottery, I wasn't given grace. You believe in selective choice, not grace.
I was pretty offended by this when I initially read it. I had to wait until I calmed down. This is just distorting my beliefs and demoralising them to justify rejecting them. It's very closed minded.
Ephesians 2:1-10 (New American Standard Bible)
"And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by Grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come he might show the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."
http://biblehub.com/nasb/ephesians/2.htm
I was pretty offended by this when I initially read it. I had to wait until I calmed down. This is just distorting my beliefs and demoralising them to justify rejecting them. It's very closed minded.
Ephesians 2:1-10 (New American Standard Bible)
"And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by Grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come he might show the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."
http://biblehub.com/nasb/ephesians/2.htm
Truly sorry Zotis, I promise that wasn't my intention. You asked me to clarify so I did. It is very hard to reconcile an all knowing God with free will. I truly believe it is what sets us apart from the other religions though, which makes free will essential to me. Otherwise we are no different than the Jehovahs Witness or Mormons. Free will, grace, and unconditional love. Essential tenets for our gospel to be effective in my opinion.
Citizen Rules
04-05-16, 12:01 AM
I just had a before dinner drink, a Deschutes Brewery...Fresh Squeezed IPA. It was tasty! But now it's gone:(
Omnizoa
04-05-16, 12:24 AM
This doesn't mean we should go out and kill people because "you won't be at fault." You WILL be at fault...
If we're still going to put weight on choice and consequence then that just goes to show how unproductive that mindset is by qualifying everything as, "BTW, free will is an illusion".
Miss Vicky
04-05-16, 12:29 AM
I just had a before dinner drink, a Deschutes Brewery...Fresh Squeezed IPA. It was tasty! But now it's gone:(
I'm having an after dinner glass of champagne.
Sexy Celebrity
04-05-16, 12:30 AM
If we're still going to put weight on choice and consequence then that just goes to show how unproductive that mindset is by qualifying everything as, "BTW, free will is an illusion".
Well, free will may be an illusion, but you still gotta go with the illusion anyway. Everybody does. A lot of people aren't aware it's all an illusion, but some are. Those who are aware don't explode or anything. They just continue living in the illusion.
I'm having an after dinner glass of champagne.
Vicky on champagne is great. Probably the best thing about the oscar chat :p
Sexy Celebrity
04-05-16, 12:41 AM
Don't drive.
If you have to drive then just drive someone crazy.
That's what my grans sister used to always say haha
Truly sorry Zotis, I promise that wasn't my intention. You asked me to clarify so I did. It is very hard to reconcile an all knowing God with free will. I truly believe it is what sets us apart from the other religions though, which makes free will essential to me. Otherwise we are no different than the Jehovahs Witness or Mormons. Free will, grace, and unconditional love. Essential tenets for our gospel to be effective in my opinion.
Thanks for apologising. I am more than happy to discuss the topic with you and help you understand what I believe and why, but not if I'm feeling insulted.
If you truly understand what I believe then you should be able to repeat back to me what you think I believe in such a way that I say, "Yes that's what I believe." If you can't do that then you need to ask me more questions before you criticise what I believe.
And what was that business about you going to college with me for 2 years? I didn't go to college, and I don't know you.
Sexy, you might be interested in this (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3726704/?ref_=nv_sr_2).
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/t_dkgJLdU54/sddefault.jpg
Sexy Celebrity
04-05-16, 12:49 AM
That movie's about the experiment where someone shocked people because they were told to do it or something? I've heard about that experiment before.
Sexy Celebrity
04-05-16, 12:50 AM
An anonymous person told me I shouldn't debate with Omnizoa because it'll drive me crazy.
But I dunno. I've liked Omnizoa from what I've seen so far.
Omnizoa
04-05-16, 01:15 AM
If we're still going to put weight on choice and consequence then that just goes to show how unproductive that mindset is by qualifying everything as, "BTW, free will is an illusion".
Well, free will may be an illusion, but you still gotta go with the illusion anyway. Everybody does. A lot of people aren't aware it's all an illusion, but some are. Those who are aware don't explode or anything. They just continue living in the illusion.
So, what's the point then?
Omnizoa
04-05-16, 01:17 AM
An anonymous person told me I shouldn't debate with Omnizoa because it'll drive me crazy.
But I dunno. I've liked Omnizoa from what I've seen so far.
I'm fresh out of the mental hospital, so yeah, trust that voice in your head. I do.
I'm fresh out of the mental hospital, so yeah, trust that voice in your head. I do.
You trust the voice in his head? Interesting...
:suspicious:
Sexy Celebrity
04-05-16, 02:22 AM
So, what's the point then?
The anonymous person may have been right......
The anonymous person may have been right......
I tried to warn you... :p
I tried to warn you... :p
Sounds like Zotis knows who this anonymous person was but it definitely wasn't him.
Miss Vicky
04-05-16, 02:31 AM
I'm surprised you haven't voted in the poll, Camo.
I'd have expected you to click the first option right away.
I'm surprised you haven't voted in the poll, Camo.
I'd have expected you to click the first option right away.
Was waiting for the fourth option. Essential.
Sounds like Zotis knows who this anonymous person was but it definitely wasn't him.
Wasn't it Omnizoa? Or was it my voice in his head?
Without alcohol, I never would have been a beer pong champion or gotten so serious about film making.
Omnizoa
04-05-16, 02:53 AM
The voices in all our heads are aquaintences. They influence each other, but they all have a misconception of free will.
The voices in all our heads are aquaintences. They influence each other, but they all have a misconception of free will.
Is your motto, "Only talk about things I know nothing about?"
Omnizoa
04-05-16, 02:58 AM
The voices in all our heads are aquaintences. They influence each other, but they all have a misconception of free will.
Is your motto, "Only talk about things I know nothing about?"
No, my motto is "Never assume the improbable."
Sexy Celebrity
04-05-16, 03:03 AM
I voted "I don't drink" but that's not really true. Obviously. (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1005808)
I'm really more of the "Not that important" option -- BUT -- my goal is to maybe not want to drink at all. Maybe only on rare occasions. I'm already no longer all that crazy about alcohol. Years ago, that wasn't the case. Wasn't a big drinker, but I enjoyed it. I had it several times a year. NOW.... only if it's something good. Certain beers, maybe certain fruity drinks. Not big on liquor really anymore. Can't stand wine anymore. Alcohol is so last decade for me. If I drink now, it's more just for the taste. In the past, it was more for the experience of feeling drunk. I no longer think that feeling is good. Especially since if you drink too much, you get really sick. I don't like that. I'm too old for it.
No, my motto is "Never always assume the improbable whatever I feel like."
There, fixed it for you.
Omnizoa
04-05-16, 08:52 AM
There, fixed it for you.
I see you're making great progress on that improving yourself thing.
earlsmoviepicks
04-05-16, 09:03 AM
I like a few drinks now and then, but pretty infrequently. (not posting Facebook photos of my bar drinks....)
Bubblerune
04-12-16, 03:42 PM
I don't drink! Every once in a while I drink something with my friends, but I don't feel like drinking every week or something
I took a break from drinking 1½ year ago and never turned back. Being apart of the music (DIY) music environment and going to concerts 2-3 times a week drinking beer was just a normal thing to do. Now i mainly drink soda water. I still go out a lot, but i guess there is a few friends i have lost touch in relation to being abstinent.
The case is that i also take medicin for schizophrenia and that does not go well hand in hand with drinking. I also found out that can be a lot more productive work and student wise, when i dont drink at all. I wouldnt say i was a heavy drinker, but just a few beers and that for me, caused problems with getting proper sleep and such things.
As it is now i can't se myself going back to drinking alcohol but im fine that my girlfriend and friends do it :)
Steve Freeling
04-16-16, 04:00 PM
It's not that important to me, but it really saved my ass when the fleas got me. I was very tipsy afterwards, but the fleas jumped right off of me. It was one can of beer with 11% alcohol, in case you're wondering.
Booze is meh. The shine is off that star for me, and I dont do anything harder than alcohol.
It's not that important to me, but it really saved my ass when the fleas got me. I was very tipsy afterwards, but the fleas jumped right off of me. It was one can of beer with 11% alcohol, in case you're wondering.
One of those "motor oil" thingies?
Steve Freeling
04-16-16, 04:22 PM
It's not that important to me, but it really saved my ass when the fleas got me. I was very tipsy afterwards, but the fleas jumped right off of me. It was one can of beer with 11% alcohol, in case you're wondering.
One of those "motor oil" thingies?
It was some weird brand of beer called "Schlitz." After looking it up, it would seem it's 6.29%. I actually usually stick to Budweiser, but I was at my (former) buddy's place, the fleas jumped on me, and he suggested I have a beer. As mentioned, they jumped right off of me.
Citizen Rules
04-16-16, 04:24 PM
Fleas hate bad beer;)
Omnizoa
04-16-16, 11:07 PM
i also take medicin for schizophrenia and that does not go well hand in hand with drinking.
http://dogsondrugs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/bert.png
Steve Freeling
04-17-16, 02:33 AM
Fleas hate bad beer;)
Still doesn't change the fact that the "bad beer" in question saved my ass.
Godoggo
04-17-16, 03:38 AM
I very rarely drink, but occasionally I like too. By occasional I mean like once a month, if that. My friend lives way out in the country and his neighbors made him some apple pie moonshine so sometime this month I am going to stay the night and we are going to drink it. That should be an experience I am not likely to forget.
persian girl
04-17-16, 05:04 AM
i don't drink.
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