Documentary HOF

[SilentVamp]

I've read everyone's reviews (well, all the ones that involve the films that I have already seen - I am trying to avoid the rest until I have seen them all :) ). I will probably go through them one more time before I make any more comments here (it doesn't seem possible that I could be that behind in the posts in just one week!). But until then, I just wanted to get one review of my own in for now.

Dear Zachary

This is the film that I was originally going to nominate except that it had already been added. I thought I hadn't seen it before, but as I read more about it, the more it became familiar to me. And as soon as I saw the parents, I knew I watched it before. In fact, the last 20 minutes were extremely familiar to me (but most of the details and exact outcome were vague memories). I don't recall when I actually saw it, but it must have been on TV years ago. I think it was a case where the description drew me in, and I ended up wanting to pull my hair out by the end of it.

Anyway, as it was a re-watch, I decided to comment on this one first. I will try my best to not spoil anything for anyone else with what I write. And with what I avoid saying, I hope that the others who have seen it will know what I am referring to.

I follow a lot of crime stories. What fascinates me is how much that woman (she doesn't deserve acknowledgment by stating her name) was like Jodi Arias - the most recent of crazy killer women. The way that she behaved with this man and the investigators (and other little things that she did afterwards) was eerily like the way that Arias was with her victim. The only difference with the two, really, was how the murder took place and the added part of this story in regards to what came about with the relationship that she had with him.

I honestly don't really know what to say about this one. This was one of those extremely frustrating stories for me to watch (which is why I stated earlier that I wanted to pull my hair out by the time it ended). It is the sort that makes me vocalize my feelings while watching it even if I am watching alone. It does nothing but put me into a "funk" (I really can't think of a better word for it) for the rest of the day after I watch it. It is really hard for me to deal with stories like this because I get myself so upset that I can't even think of the right words to explain how I am upset and why I was made to feel that way.

But with what happened, I immediately have the thought go through my mind of "What did those people ever do to deserve that?". And then I think how others might get preachy and tell them to "forgive". That is ridiculous! And then there are the people out there who like to use the phrase "Everything happens for a reason". Oh, shut up!!! What is the reason for what happened? So those people could become activists or something of the sort?! Give me a break! I just can't deal with this kind of stuff. I just can't. It is too aggravating. Of course, none of those things were said in the film, but I know a lot of people would say them after having watched this, and I just can't understand that way of thinking. No decent person should have to experience what those two experienced. And it is so hard to even try to figure out why they had to go through it.

Anyway, that is how I feel about the story. As for the film itself, I see how people thought it could've been made/presented a little better. I understand that. But I really didn't expect anything too spectacular visually. I figured that if he really was just filming something to show the baby when he got older, it didn't have to be perfect. But as the film took a different turn, I am not surprised that it wasn't changed at all with how it was made. I think at that point he may have just wanted it to be done. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that is how I felt about it.

So, as you can see, this was a very upsetting thing for me to watch. If I had seen it before a little closer to now, it probably wouldn't have gotten to me as much. But as some of the facts left my mind (I kept thinking the outcome would be what it became but I wasn't sure - maybe it was wishful thinking), it is basically like experiencing this story as if it were the first time hearing it and I think that is why it upset me so much.

4

[TheUsualSuspect]

Dear Zachary

This is the film that I was originally going to nominate except that it had already been added.
rating_4

Wow, that makes 3 people trying to nominate this film.

[Guaporense]

I think there's a lot here that could be explored more. Miyazaki could easily have his own documentary like Ebert's Life Itself, something that details his entire life.

There are several other documentaries about Miazaki and Ghibli. Though probably not as well produced as this one.

[cricket]

Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/ZacharyTurner.jpg

This is certainly a hard-hitting, emotional story. I'm not looking to minimize it in any way, but I watch a lot of television documentaries that spotlight stories like this, so I'm sort of used to them. This is the kind of programming I like to watch at least. The big difference for me with this particular one, is the fact that there's so many great people involved. The production value of this wasn't great, but it may have brought everything to a more personal level. Although it may not have been as devastating to me as it is to some others, I still thought it was fantastic.

4

[seanc]

Beauty Day/Exit Through The Gift Shop

Did a re-watch of both of these this weekend. I don't find re-watches of documentaries all that rewarding but I still love both of these and find them fascinating for the same reasons. It is also why I found American Movie so fascinating. I love these documentaries that focus on these simple people who have this eccentric side that a lot of us don't understand. Near the beginning of Beauty Day the subject talks about leaving his job at a plant because he simply couldn't see spending 1/3 of his life doing that. We see that play out in the other movies as well. No matter what you think of the "art" of the subjects in any of these movies there is no doubt that they are wired differently and are looking for some kind of fulfillment from what they do. I think if we are all honest with ourselves we have something in us that wants to let out that aspect of ourselves. These people can definitely come across as self absorbed but even the people in their lives try to understand where they are coming from and help them how they can. I love these kind of documentaries and hope I can find many more like them. Infinitely interesting people. These two movies and the before mentioned American Movie will all be high on my list and would all be worthy winners.

[Swan]

If you love movies with simple people who have an eccentric side, check out Monster Road, Sean. I recommended it earlier but I think you'll like it. :)

[seanc]

If you love movies with simple people who have an eccentric side, check out Monster Road, Sean. I recommended it earlier but I think you'll like it. :)

That looks very interesting. Definitely try to get to it for the doc list.

[Swan]

All on YouTube, as far as I remember. :)

[Nope1172]

Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/ZacharyTurner.jpg

This is certainly a hard-hitting, emotional story. I'm not looking to minimize it in any way, but I watch a lot of television documentaries that spotlight stories like this, so I'm sort of used to them. This is the kind of programming I like to watch at least. The big difference for me with this particular one, is the fact that there's so many great people involved. The production value of this wasn't great, but it may have brought everything to a more personal level. Although it may not have been as devastating to me as it is to some others, I still thought it was fantastic.

4
Glad you liked it Cricket!

[Guaporense]

I just watched that one as well. I found it to be a bit tad melodramatic for my tastes. While I like muscular drama I like it in other varieties than this film (I.e. Grave of the Fireflies, based on a true story, PMMM, pure fantasy but I identified strongly with their struggles which represent a rather more significant facet of reality for me). If I watched it like 10 years ago I think I would have liked it more (I was more of a fan of those criminal documentaries back en).

[Camo]

I think Dear Zachary either hits you just right emotionally or it feels like an overly sentimental crime doc, everyone including myself saying it is so devastating is actually a pretty big spoiler. If it isn't then its at least setting some people up to be disappointed.

[Guaporense]

@ yeah, the documentaries so far that I felt more engaged emotionally were Miazaki's one, because its Miazaki, the Chinese one, deals with more common and hence relatable issues and the American movie one because I found the characters really cool actually.

The Imposter (2012)

http://thecinephiliac.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/the-imposter-poster.jpg

Impersonating teenagers? Hum, now I wanna do it too!

[Thursday Next]

Got asked via post comment what my rating would be for The Imposter. I didn't forget, I just couldn't decide on a rating. And then I remembered that I don't usually rate movies in halls of fame, because I think the discussion is more important, and because a rating you slap on a film immediately after watching it doesn't necessarily translate into where I would place it when making my list. But that said, probably somewhere between a 3 and a 4. I'm still trying to decide whether some of things I was less comfortable about outweigh the sheer storytelling quality.

[seanc]

Got asked via post comment what my rating would be for The Imposter. I didn't forget, I just couldn't decide on a rating. And then I remembered that I don't usually rate movies in halls of fame, because I think the discussion is more important, and because a rating you slap on a film immediately after watching it doesn't necessarily translate into where I would place it when making my list. But that said, probably somewhere between a 3 and a 4. I'm still trying to decide whether some of things I was less comfortable about outweigh the sheer storytelling quality.

I stopped doing rating for HOF films too. However if you have to know you can check Letterboxd.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Food Inc

I'm not going to say much about this one because others have stated similar thoughts. The film isn't particularly good, but the content and the information is somewhat important. More substance over style, much like Dear Zachary. I'm too lazy to change the way I eat, but Food Inc is a step in the right direction.

3.5

[Citizen Rules]

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/df/c4/dfc4375ba4612e5d20da2cae9cb021d1.jpg?itok=JGJcLxgQ
West of Memphis

I had never heard of the 'Memphis Three'... so when I started watching this I though it was just another story about a grisly, triple murder of three kids. It's much, much more than that. There's a real question as to the guilt of the three teenagers who were charged with the crime. There's also a disturbing question of injustice, incompetency and unscrupulous police investigation. I won't say more, except it's an important film to watch. Be forewarned it shows graphic pictures of the three murdered eight year old boys and I wish they hadn't.

One of the most disturbing parts of the story is the tie in to satanic cult worship. The accused were alleged to be devil worshipers involved in a satanic killing when the murders happened in 1993. I believe I know why the satanic tie in occurred. I wonder if anyone else will pick up on it. When you watch this eye opening documentary, remember history isn't just for the past.

[TheUsualSuspect]

CR - Are you at all interested in seeing the 3 documentaries that came before it? West of Memphis pretty much sums up a lot of what those documentaries presented, so it might feel like back peddling at bit.

[Citizen Rules]

Thanks Suspect, my movie watching schedule is really full right now. But if you don't mind listing the titles of the other 3, that would be cool. I didn't even know there were 3 others.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Paradise Lost: The Child Murders At Robin Hood Hills (1996)
Paradise Lost 2: Revelations (2000)
Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory (2011)

Each film uncovers more about the case, as you can see this has been a long time coming. I wouldn't rush to see them though, like I said West of Memphis covers A LOT of this material. I would only recommend if you're really invested into the story.

[Citizen Rules]

Thanks!

[Guaporense]

Got asked via post comment what my rating would be for The Imposter. I didn't forget, I just couldn't decide on a rating. And then I remembered that I don't usually rate movies in halls of fame, because I think the discussion is more important, and because a rating you slap on a film immediately after watching it doesn't necessarily translate into where I would place it when making my list. But that said, probably somewhere between a 3 and a 4. I'm still trying to decide whether some of things I was less comfortable about outweigh the sheer storytelling quality.

I stopped rating altogether. I don't think ratings give particularly good information about a person's experience with a film. It's art and hence multidimensional not amenable to be scored like a math exam.

[SilentVamp]

Got asked via post comment what my rating would be for The Imposter. I didn't forget, I just couldn't decide on a rating. And then I remembered that I don't usually rate movies in halls of fame, because I think the discussion is more important, and because a rating you slap on a film immediately after watching it doesn't necessarily translate into where I would place it when making my list. But that said, probably somewhere between a 3 and a 4. I'm still trying to decide whether some of things I was less comfortable about outweigh the sheer storytelling quality.
Truthfully, I rate films for my own benefit. I want to keep track of how I have "scored" a lot of these films for later. I was on another site just to record all of the movies that I have seen, but I haven't been back there in awhile. So, to rate them now is good for me so that I have a reference for how I rated them when I first saw them. I will then have my rating for when I enter them onto my profile on that other site. I hope that explanation just made sense. :)

[Camo]

Citizen, personally i think the Paradise Lost docs are alot better, they are just more detailed and with each one being made closer to the dates everything happened i just feel it adds more. Saying that i understand that we can only nominate one so West of Memphis was clearly the way to go Vamp, also i watched West of Memphis last which meant it felt alot more like a rehash to me than first timers to the story. I'm curious how Cricket feels about it since i know he likes the trilogy.

[gbgoodies]

Paradise Lost: The Child Murders At Robin Hood Hills (1996)
Paradise Lost 2: Revelations (2000)
Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory (2011)

Each film uncovers more about the case, as you can see this has been a long time coming. I would rush to see them though, like I said West of Memphis covers A LOT of this material. I would only recommend if you're really invested into the story.


I had heard of the West Memphis 3, but I didn't really know much about them, so I watched all three of the Paradise Lost documentaries last night, and I'm going to watch West of Memphis tonight.

[Citizen Rules]

I'm glad she nominated it. I guess everyone else had heard of the Memphis Three, but not me. I wonder if Johnny Depp will ever make a dramatized movie version? He's got the the look and vibe down. If I was a producer, I'd be on it.

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Damien+Echols+West+Memphis+Photo+Call+2012+Otgw4WFBBoMl.jpg

[Camo]

The Imposter

Ok, i had already watched this shortly after it was released but while i knew the jist of the story i had forgotten some, because of my previous viewing it didn't have quite the same impact there were a few things that i focused on more that about evened it out though. In the next paragraphs i'm going to post some kinda minor SPOILERS, so iwouldn't read past this if you haven't seen it yet.

By minor spoilers i meant that i'm not mentioning anything that happens in the last 25-30 minutes, so to anyone who has seen it i'd say take everything i'm saying as if the last half hour never happened, because of this i'm mainly talking about Frederic.

Frederic is quite possibly the most terryfying non-murderer, real life person i've ever seen. How he says and describes how he could come across as a scared kid and how that gives him power truly sent a chill up my spine. He comes across as a smug, heartless, horrible person but honestly in a certain way it almost makes me respect him, he doesn't try to show a false sense of remorse but admits; almost embraces the fact that he is so selfish and callous, which makes me sympathising with his story impossible. One thing i liked about this doc is that it didn't spend much time on his horrible childhood or his finally finding a loving family, truthfully i barely take a word outside of the straightforward, confirmable facts on this one case seriously from him. I have no doubt giving the right airtime to his former life he'd be able to manipulate a good chunk of viewers into believing that he is the true victim.

Overall this is a very intriguing, remarkable story that is also sad and the best word to sum up everything including everyone involved for me is despicable. Great nom Suspect!

[Camo]

I'm glad she nominated it. I guess everyone else had heard of the Memphis Three, but not me. I wonder if Johnny Depp will ever make a dramatized movie version? He's got the the look and vibe down. If I was a producer, I'd be on it.

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Damien+Echols+West+Memphis+Photo+Call+2012+Otgw4WFBBoMl.jpg

Yeah, Depp was a major supporter of the three. I think and you probably do too that a film would turn out awful but there has been interest.

What i hate about all this is that the WM3's innocence has completely taken over the search for the killer(s), saying that this case will never be completely forgotten like so many other unsolved murders in the world. I'd just like some more focus on the victims (they were victims too i know) now that they've been released, MR.Bojangles in particular creeps me the f out i'd love for that to be figured out.

[Citizen Rules]

Camo, I thought the same thing you did about Frederick. He's despicable but interesting. Heck he might have a career on his own reality TV show...just another of my producer ideas.

[Camo]

Camo, I thought the same thing you did about Frederick. He's despicable but interesting. Heck he might have a career on his own reality TV show...just another of my producer ideas.

Calm down, Citizen. A WM3 movie and an Imposter reality show? I can hear Hollywoods boots shaking :p. Kind of a play on something Frederic said that made me laugh out loud, "I washed her brain" :laugh:

[TheUsualSuspect]

There IS a dramatized version of the West Memphis 3. It's called Devil's Knot starring Reese Witherspoon and Colin Firth. Directed by Canadian Atom Egoyan, it did not get particularly favourable reviews.


As for hunting the real killers? That will never happen. They've pleaded 'Guilty' essentially, which means the state considers this case closed.

[Camo]

Reese + Colin Firth, = OK, Colin Firth, i am concerned?

[Citizen Rules]

http://torontoist.com/attachments/johnsemley/20110429_hdplanner.jpg

Beauty Day

I had no idea what this was about and I had never heard of Cap'n Video....It's great to see a fun documentary after all the serious ones, I liked it! This was entertaining, but I was surprised that it was also an emotional watch for me...I'll explain in a bit.

Beauty Day is what I love about documentaries, it's a true story of an ecliptic daredevil who had his own '15 minutes of fame' with his own, self made for local cable, TV show. It's pretty cool that this guy could do this and be successful for 5 years. The dude is nuts! Some of his stunts are OMG!!!...he actually lived through that!!!

Cap'n Video stunts took me back to my youthful days and some of the crazy and stupid stuff I did. I bet most guys have done some of this dangerous stuff at one time or another.

I found myself feeling a sadness for Ralph (aka Cap'n Video). In the second part, he talked about his life, his lost relationships and experiences and I got a sense that there's a lonely person behind the zany guy. His friend described him as someone who could light up the room with his energy, but I got the sense there's real pain inside. Perhaps Cap'n Video was a mask to cover his pain. I guess what I'm saying is the documentary worked for me on many different levels. Another fine nomination.

[Captain Steel]

Sorry if I'm breaking any rules of this thread, but I just saw a documentary called "Shut Up Little Man! An Audio Misadventure."
Intriguing & bizarre. I'd never even heard of the subject matter, but it delves into questions of morality, ethics, legality, art, exploitation, etc. The fact that what it's about even led to a documentary itself is controversial.
Found it on the "Streampix" On-Demand channel.

[Citizen Rules]

It sounds interesting! If have another Doc Hof that would be a fun one to nominate. Captain are you going to submit a voting list of our top documentaries for the Top Countdown?

[Captain Steel]

It sounds interesting! If have another Doc Hof that would be a fun one to nominate. Captain are you going to submit a voting list of our top documentaries for the Top Countdown?

I'm afraid I don't have a "list". I haven't seen most of the documentaries listed on this thread.

But, what's really weird, Rules... in "Shut Up Little Man," they played the Orson Welles peas commercials (or recording outtakes, rather) as examples of "audio verite" and how such things could go viral.
Someone in the film even asked, was it ethical to put a man who was once a radio & film pioneer & a king of media on tape having melt downs at the end of his career when he was reduced to making commercials, and spread it around as comedy after his death or is it exploitation?

So, oddly enough, I watch another random item that has an Orson reference.
Citizen Rules, I think you are effecting the cosmic planes of interfacing synchronicity!

[Citizen Rules]

Ha! maybe I have cosmic powers!...You know they use to say Elvis was everywhere, but I say it's Orson:)

There's another documentary I just watched about Orson Welles called Magician: The Astonishing Life and Work of Orson Welles. You might have seen my review of it. I almost suggested it for this Hof.

Oh, on the Top 100 Documentaries Countdown...a person sends in a ranked list of their top 25 favorite docs of all times, or they can have less than 25, if they haven't see many. I'd post a link but I can't find it.

The Countdown won't take place for months, but when we do it, it's a board special activity and as you are now an official MoFo:D you should think about getting together a list!

[seanc]

Very glad you liked it Citizen. I feel the exact same way about it, except for the trying crazy stuff when I was younger, I have always been a wuss. Rollercoasters are about as zany as I get. Anyway I feel the same way about the loneliness. Just a compelling character. Did you feel the production values were pretty good? For such a low budget film I thought they were. The writer/director is just finishing up his second doc. He co-hosts one of the casts I listen to. I'm excited for his second movie.

[Citizen Rules]

Did you feel the production values were pretty good? For such a low budget film I thought they were. The writer/director is just finishing up his second doc. He co-hosts one of the casts I listen to. I'm excited for his second movie. I thought his production values were excellent. I would have complained if they weren't:p All aspects of the doc went together nicely, it seemed professionally to me.

Very glad you liked it Citizen. I feel the exact same way about it, except for the trying crazy stuff when I was younger, I have always been a wuss. Rollercoasters are about as zany as I get. You didn't jump bikes over ramps or make home made fireworks? I do have a few stories, but seriously when I think of them now they were stupid, stupid risk and I'm lucky to be around.

Anyway I feel the same way about the loneliness. Just a compelling character. I'm glad you said that I though maybe it was just me. He's an interesting character and the film maker brought that out too.

[SilentVamp]

I am sorry if my nomination was a "rehash" to some of you :), but I wanted to see this version of the story. I was curious to see how it would be told. I have seen various TV, documentaries and interviews about them, anyway. So, no, none of it was new to me. Yet, it is something that I have enough of an interest in that I could watch another telling of the story.

I don't know if I am in the minority here, but I can watch multiple documentaries/films about a specific topic - just as long as I am really interested in that topic. For example, how many times can a person watch something about the Lincoln assassination? Yet, every time there is something new I watch it.

Anyway, people should be happy that I nominated this. Because if the documentary that I really wanted to watch had been available (for some reason it still isn't - it was supposed to be in 2015), you all would've had to have sat through a history lesson. :yup: :D


As for hunting the real killers? That will never happen. They've pleaded 'Guilty' essentially, which means the state considers this case closed.
You know they are done with this case. Just for the simple fact that the prosecution doesn't want to look like they were in the wrong. After all, I believe that prosecutor said something about his voters. And if the general public feel that these guys are definitely guilty, the prosecution will go along with it no matter what (even if he believes the opposite is true) to keep his votes.

[gbgoodies]

I watched all three of the Paradise Lost documentaries, as well as the West of Memphis documentary. I knew very little about the West Memphis 3 case before watching them.

Each of the Paradise Lost documentaries seems to take a different approach to the case, as to who the filmmakers thought was probably guilty, and they go into more detail of what evidence they have against those people. The West of Memphis documentary sums up the whole case better, but it doesn't focus in one direction. It gives a better all-around description of the case and the suspects. West of Memphis is the one that made me wonder the most about their innocence, mostly due to the reaction by Jason Baldwin to the Alford Plea. I also liked that it showed a little bit of the WM3 after they were released.

The evidence certainly wasn't overwhelming against the three teenagers, and most of it seemed circumstantial, but their attitudes are what really made you think they could be guilty. Some people look at the way they dress and the music they listen to, and they decide that these kids are killers, but for me, it was their attitudes that made me wonder about their guilt. Even at the end of Paradise Lost 1, Damian's comments about how "people will remember him" shows that he doesn't even seem upset that he was convicted, which makes me wonder if he's actually guilty.

On the other hand, there's also enough circumstantial evidence to consider John Mark Byers and/or Terry Hobbs as suspects. Unfortunately it looks like the police botched the investigation so badly that we'll probably never learn the truth, but it's easy to see why people have such strong opinions that these kids could have been wrongly convicted.

However, we should also remember that these were not three innocent kids. These were three teenagers who admitted that they did bad things like killing animals. They were already at the top of the police list of suspects because they were in trouble a lot.

I'm not saying that they deserve what they got, but I can't feel bad for them either. If nothing else, that 18 years that they spent behind bars probably saved a lot of animals. Hopefully by the time they got out they were old enough to know better.

I'm not sure about their innocence, but I also don't think that there was enough evidence to convict them. Unfortunately the Alford Plea means that the case is closed, and officially, they're not even trying to learn the truth anymore.

[gbgoodies]

American Movie (1999)

The documentary itself was good in that it showed the ups and downs of making a movie, but it felt like I was watching "Beavis & Butthead Make a Movie".

He seemed to do so much wrong that maybe this should have been titled "What Not To Do When Making A Movie". He hired his alcoholic, stoner friends who couldn't do anything right, and I never got the feeling that he really cared about his uncle. It felt like he was taking advantage of his Uncle Bill just to get money from him.

On top of everything, an internet search seems to show that he never got his other movie made anyway, even after he got the money from his uncle.

[Swan]

I really don't think it was the intention to make the main characters look like morons. Maybe you have to relate to them to get it like I do. You could say "well, Swan, maybe you're a moron too" and I was going to make a similar crack at myself like I always do... but you know what, f*ck that, I'm not a moron. I'm a smart guy and I think you guys underestimate who these people are. I wouldn't like American Movie if I felt like Mark and Mike were idiots. They're definitely not.

[gbgoodies]

I really don't think it was the intention to make the main characters look like morons. Maybe you have to relate to them to get it like I do. You could say "well, Swan, maybe you're a moron too" and I was going to make a similar crack at myself like I always do... but you know what, f*ck that, I'm not a moron. I'm a smart guy and I think you guys underestimate who these people are. I wouldn't like American Movie if I felt like Mark and Mike were idiots. They're definitely not.


I didn't call them "morons" or "idiots". I called them "alcoholics" and "stoners". There's a big difference between those terms.

[Swan]

I wasn't saying you did, sorry, and I'm not trying to pick a fight - please don't take it like that. It was an overall comment on what I've noticed people saying about the film in this thread, and it's a bit upsetting because it's one of my favorite films and I definitely disagree with you guys.

[gbgoodies]

I wasn't saying you did, sorry, and I'm not trying to pick a fight - please don't take it like that. It was an overall comment on what I've noticed people saying about the film in this thread, and it's a bit upsetting because it's one of my favorite films and I definitely disagree with you guys.


People knock my favorite movies all the time, so I know how you feel. Just don't let it get to you. Everyone has different opinions, but that doesn't make one person's opinion right or wrong. Your favorite films should remain your favorite films, regardless of what anyone says about them.

[cricket]

The Imposter didn't come yet so maybe I'll watch that tomorrow. I already have Amer so maybe I can bash the crap out of both of them in the same day.:D

[mark f]

Mark borrowed $3,000 from Uncle Bill to make Coven, which he completed. Uncle Bill wasn't happy about parting with that money since he only had $200,000. :)

[gbgoodies]

Mark borrowed $3,000 from Uncle Bill to make Coven, which he completed. Uncle Bill wasn't happy about parting with that money since he only had $200,000. :)


If I understood it correctly, the whole point of making the documentary American Movie was to raise the money to make his movie Northwestern. He eventually got $50,000 from his Uncle Bill for Northwestern, but he never completed it.

[seanc]

If I understood it correctly, the whole point of making the documentary American Movie was to raise the money to make his movie Northwestern. He eventually got $50,000 from his Uncle Bill for Northwestern, but he never completed it.

No, the whole point of making the short Coven was to raise that money.

[mark f]

Uncle Bill left Mark $50,000 in his will to help finance Northwestern, and yes, that was never made. I'd say that money belonged to Mark though.

[gbgoodies]

Mark borrowed $3,000 from Uncle Bill to make Coven, which he completed. Uncle Bill wasn't happy about parting with that money since he only had $200,000. :)

If I understood it correctly, the whole point of making the documentary American Movie was to raise the money to make his movie Northwestern. He eventually got $50,000 from his Uncle Bill for Northwestern, but he never completed it.

No, the whole point of making the short Coven was to raise that money.


So his documentary American Movie is about the making of Coven. He borrowed money from his uncle to make Coven. He made Coven to raise money for Northwestern, and he got another $50,000 from his uncle to make Northwestern, but he still never made Northwestern.

[gbgoodies]

Baraka (1992)

This is a fascinating documentary with all images, and no words. No voiceover, no narrator, no text on screen. Just images of people and places around the world. I loved the images, and the time just flew by while watching it, but it would have been nice to know what I was looking at.

I preferred the images of places rather than the people, but the tattooed guy was pretty cool, in a weird way. There were some scenes that were pretty morbid, and I had a hard time watching those scenes. And even with the time lapse, some images were just focused on for too long. For example, how long do we really have to watch the same guy checking computer parts?

It's nice because there are some beautiful images, but as a documentary, I think it lacks something because it doesn't tell me what I'm looking at. I always thought that documentaries are about learning something, but without knowing what I was looking at, I didn't learn anything. I just enjoyed the pictures.

[seanc]

So his documentary American Movie is about the making of Coven. He borrowed money from his uncle to make Coven. He made Coven to raise money for Northwestern, and he got another $50,000 from his uncle to make Northwestern, but he still never made Northwestern.

That pretty much covers it except American Movie was supposed to be about the making of Northwestern but making Coven would be an easier cash grab so he decided to finish Coven first. Any questions?

[mark f]

But Coven tanked, and American Movie wasn't made for Mark to make a cent. :)

[gbgoodies]

I guess my point is that even though American Movie is about making his movie Coven, it's also about his dream of making the movie Northwestern, and about him not wanting to be a failure, but when it comes right down to it, he still hasn't made his dream movie, regardless of the fact that he made the movie that was supposed to fund it, and he got money from his uncle too. So why didn't he ever make his dream movie?

[cricket]

American Movie

http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/360ada7f76ae5b8494fb2623ebcedf2d/american-movie.jpg

So are these guys losers or not? Sort of, in that their environment and upbringing makes their opportunities bleak. There's not a lot of hope for success with Mark through traditional means. But you can't be at fault if you don't know any better. Mark and his clan at least appear to be loving, harmless people, and I think that is what's most important. If only he could focus on improving his life as much as he focuses on his filmmaking. Just judging the movie, I thought it was often hilarious, and ultimately very touching. The premiere of Coven was a beautiful scene, showing everyone's hard work come to fruition. Coven is on YouTube by the way, and I'm going to watch it. One thing I'm curious about is how the director came upon Mark, and ended up deciding to make his movie about him.

4+

[seanc]

One thing I'm curious about is how the director came upon Mark, and ended up deciding to make his movie about him.

A couple of us have wondered that. My theory is he went to film school for a bit. He busts out some lingo at certain points that made me feel that way. Plus he had access to the editing studio at the University.

[Swan]

So glad you liked it, cricket. :up:

[cricket]

I think these guys would be fun to hang out with, and that's basically what you do during the movie.

[Camo]

Thanks for telling me Coven is on Youtube Cricket, think i'm going to watch it myself. I thought Bills cameo in Coven was one of the funniest parts of the doc especially since we saw it being shot :D

[Camo]

I think these guys would be fun to hang out with, and that's basically what you do during the movie.

That is exatly why i liked it too.

[cricket]

I read in Ebert's review that at whatever festival he saw American Movie at, Coven was shown afterwards, and everyone stayed to watch it. He gave American Movie 4/4.

[cricket]

And I have 5 left to watch.

[Gatsby]

Damn I really need to watch American Movie. I can see myself loving it.

[Camo]

And I have 5 left to watch.

Same. Food Inc, Triumph of the Will, Citizens nom, Last Train Home and Beauty Day. Going to watch them in that order i think.

[SilentVamp]

So, "Coven" really is on youtube? How do you search for it? Should it be that title with his name? I have to watch this it. :p I was going to write a review on "American Movie" the other day, but I never got a chance. I will get onto to it in the next couple of days. There are some things that I want to say about the film.

[mark f]

I watched it on the DVD, but here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhQ64V-KdFA

[Citizen Rules]

I have 5 left.
Baraka
Exit Through The Gift Shop
Last Train Home
The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness
American Movie

Probably in that order.

[Camo]

Its alright
Its ok.
Its something to live for.
Jesus told me sooooo!!!

[SilentVamp]

Thanks, mark. Seriously. I smiled a big smile when I watched the first minute of it just now. I am going to have to set time aside for this later so that I can really enjoy it. :D

[Thursday Next]

Dear Zachary

This was a very sad and shocking story. As it's such a personal film, it almost feels like I can't criticise any aspect of it, but I'm on the side of the people who didn't like the editing. I didn't like the fast overlapping talking or the sound effects, and some of the choices of images to go with the narration felt almost crass. This film just didn't need any of that. The best parts of the film are the parents just talking about what happened. That said, the editing didn't completely ruin the film either, it's still a very powerful film. What an extraordinary series of failures by the Canadian authorities, unbelievable.

[Nope1172]

Glad you liked it!

[Citizen Rules]

http://www.popoptiq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/banksy-exit-through-the-gift-shop-la-1.jpg
Exit Through the Gift Shop

A very entertaining film about the controversial world of 'street art'. I learned a lot, I laughed, I got pissed and I scratched my head at how art is more hype than genius. An excellent documentary populated with one strange guy, Thierry aka Mr Brainwash. Thierry is quite the guy, he's either a genius or a kook, you decide. Either way his story is interesting.

Viewer Tip: Spot the movie stars...are they cutting edge art collectors or faux hipsters. You decide.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

And I have 5 left to watch.

I'm very behind. Food Inc and Triumph of the Will are the only ones I have watched.

[neiba]

Baraka (1992)

This is a fascinating documentary with all images, and no words. No voiceover, no narrator, no text on screen. Just images of people and places around the world. I loved the images, and the time just flew by while watching it, but it would have been nice to know what I was looking at.

I preferred the images of places rather than the people, but the tattooed guy was pretty cool, in a weird way. There were some scenes that were pretty morbid, and I had a hard time watching those scenes. And even with the time lapse, some images were just focused on for too long. For example, how long do we really have to watch the same guy checking computer parts?

It's nice because there are some beautiful images, but as a documentary, I think it lacks something because it doesn't tell me what I'm looking at. I always thought that documentaries are about learning something, but without knowing what I was looking at, I didn't learn anything. I just enjoyed the pictures.

Glad you liked it gbg.

I first watched it on a World Music class, with a teacher explaining some of this stuff to us while we were watching, now that you mention it, that's probably because I liked it so much!

[neiba]

Exit Through the Gift Shop (Banksy, 2010)

http://www.ip-society.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Exit-Through-The-Gift-Shop.jpg


It may contain some spoilers.

I didn't know nothing about this before started watching it, but the first 30 seconds told me I'd love it! I love street art, I even went through a teen rebel fase doing graffiti on abandoned houses near my school.
The beggining is kind of confusing because I wasn't sure if the movie was about Therry or the street art, but from the moment the name Banksy appeared it turned into a really great experience! I've been a fan of Banksy for quite some time now and the thought of watching something about him was really interesting! Of course this all degenerated into the story of the rise of MBW but that didn't make it less interesting! It is funny to see how can art be looked at almost as a joke... As Banksy said, most artists take a lifetime to develop their style and their ideas and this guy comes and makes a million dollars from nothing, as if he had always been there.
Of course I don't think he could ever be compared to Banksy, the reasons why they make things are completely different and it shows! And that's what differs good art from wannabe art, IMO: the reason why you do it!

rating_4

[Citizen Rules]

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=22816&stc=1&d=1444769181

Baraka (1992)

I like to do each of my reviews differently in some way. For Baraka I'm going to make my review as a reply to GBG's post.

This is a fascinating documentary with all images, and no words. No voiceover, no narrator, no text on screen. Just images of people and places around the world.My thoughts exactly!

I loved the images, and the time just flew by while watching it, but it would have been nice to know what I was looking at. I loved the images too, they're so unique, but the time for me dragged. Each scene was held a couple seconds too long. There's a sweet spot in scene length where too long or too short doesn't work as well, at least for me.


I preferred the images of places rather than the people, but the tattooed guy was pretty cool, in a weird way. I'm opposite on that. As much as I love the natural world, the shots of the over crowded South American cities, the dancing groups in SE Asia and Africa, the oil fires in Kuwait were my favorites

There were some scenes that were pretty morbid, and I had a hard time watching those scenes.Yup, bad on the director, he marred his beautiful documentary by shocking us with baby chicks having their beaks burnt off and closeups of bodies being cremating in India.

And even with the time lapse, some images were just focused on for too long. Yup.

It's nice because there are some beautiful images, but as a documentary, I think it lacks something because it doesn't tell me what I'm looking at. I always thought that documentaries are about learning something, but without knowing what I was looking at, I didn't learn anything. I just enjoyed the pictures. Me too. It was unique that it didn't have a voice over narrative. I would have liked a simple, short sub title for each of the sequences, which could have been shown just for a few seconds at the start of the scene.

I thought Baraka was a one of a kind documentary, I'm very glad to have watched it.

[neiba]

Glad you liked it CR! :)

[Citizen Rules]

So far all of the docs have been great in their own way. More people should have joined this Hof, they don't know what they are missing:)

[Thursday Next]

Baraka

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2012/12/13/1355414866092/Baraka-011.jpg

The one that’s not Koyaanisqatsi. It’s very well filmed. I liked it a lot to start with but to be completely honest I got a little bit bored before the 90 minutes was up. I should have watched on 1.5x speed like CR! Some of the images are really, startlingly good, so every time I felt myself drifting off slightly, there would be something that caught my eye and drew me back in. Oh, and the 'morbid' scenes didn't bother me. I don't think it was supposed to be just pretty-pretty.

I can’t quite decide whether I liked that there was absolutely no context, caption, explanation or information or not. At first I thought it wasn’t needed, that the purpose of the film was simply to show the variation of life on Earth. But then with no context what do you really learn about the planet from this? It didn’t tell a story or provide any insight or information and it felt like it was probably meant to be more of a moving experience. Which is a much more precarious thing for a film to try to be.

On a side note, I feel like this (and/or the ‘qatsi films) must have been an influence on the opening credits of Sense8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmg2hBXj_eI (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmg2hBXj_eI)

Watching this also made me desperate to find the film or tv episode I watched some time ago which was similar in being just images of the world set to music, but pop music rather than instrumental, without much success. I wonder how much of an important factor the music is in a film like this. The 90s new age music suited the film but I wasn’t that keen on it. With a different soundtrack would I have liked it more? I’ve seen The Man With A Movie Camera with a modern soundtrack and it worked really well.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Baraka

Without a doubt, the most beautiful doc of the bunch. Reminds me heavily of Planet Earth, which I simply adore. Planet Earth had the benefit of a narrator. Baraka tries to let the images speak for themselves. Fricke would go on to do Samsara which is pretty much the same film, if a bit more modernized.


I would love to see him tackle something with more narrative structure. Directing these two beautiful films, plus being the cinematographer for Koyaanisqatsi tells me he has talent. He needs to step out of the visual world and make us wide eyed with something new.


This would be a film that I would put in a time capsule or send into space.

Watching this at the speed of 1.2x is an amazing idea.


Loved that this was a submission. Shows a varied lot of documentaries.

[neiba]

I'm glad Baraka is getting some love! :)

I think must of its power it's precisely the lack of words, at least in most scenes! I remember that scene with the cars stopping and going in the traffic lights, as if the city was breathing! What can be said about that?

[gbgoodies]

I'm glad Baraka is getting some love! :)

I think must of its power it's precisely the lack of words, at least in most scenes! I remember that scene with the cars stopping and going in the traffic lights, as if the city was breathing! What can be said about that?


The name of the city would be nice to know.

[Citizen Rules]

They have a cool web site with a map that will show you all the filming locations.

Did anybody watch the second DVD that came in the set? I wonder what was on it?

http://www.barakasamsara.com/baraka/locations

[cricket]

So far all of the docs have been great in their own way. More people should have joined this Hof, they don't know what they are missing:)

I was thinking the same thing. There's always a couple dogs but that hasn't been the case for me here. I don't see it happening with 5 left either.

[neiba]

I'm glad Baraka is getting some love! :)

I think must of its power it's precisely the lack of words, at least in most scenes! I remember that scene with the cars stopping and going in the traffic lights, as if the city was breathing! What can be said about that?


The name of the city would be nice to know.

Why? I don't think that's the point. That's a city like many others, it doesn't matter which one it is.

[Thursday Next]

Triumph of the Will

Of some historical interest, no doubt, but I really struggled to see the merit in this. I don’t even think this is a great art with dubious morality debate. Great art requires something more than mere technical skill. OK, there’s some good camera work and some interesting decisions in terms of the way it is shot in certain scenes, and it quite successfully lets the subject speak for itself rather than offer and commentary. But really, is that enough? If this film wasn’t about Hitler, would people still be watching it and talking about it as much today? I freely admit that my knowledge of film history and the technical aspects of film making is not great, and perhaps I’m understating its importance.

But I don’t think you can divorce the technical aspects from the content. This film is not just intended to show of Riefenstahl’s camera skill, it’s intended to show off Hitler, it’s intended to provoke an emotional response. Specifically, to provoke an emotional response in the German citizens watching in 1935. And to that end, a lot of it is very staged, even fake. It’s more the skill of an advertisement than a documentary film, and it’s very much of its time. If this film had been made about a party rally of any other world leader, we would be laughing at the bombastic trumpets and drums etc. I found it tedious, artificial and self-aggrandising to the point of being nauseating.

An extract from Roger Ebert’s review, since he articulates it better than I can:

“I believe I saw it as an undergraduate in college, and my memory would have been old and fuzzy even in 1994, overlaid by many assertions of the film's "greatness." Now I have just seen it again and am stunned that I praised it. It is one of the most historically important documentaries ever made, yes, but one of the best? It is a terrible film, paralyzingly dull, simpleminded, overlong and not even "manipulative," because it is too clumsy to manipulate anyone but a true believer. It is not a "great movie" in the sense that the other films in this group are great, but it is "great" in the reputation it has and the shadow it casts.”

Well worth reading the full review (http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-triumph-of-the-will-1935).

[seanc]

I don't disagree with what your saying but the fact is that the movie IS about Hitler. Content still matters and the fact that we can watch this 60 years later and get naseous speaks volumes. I didn't rate it and will have a hard yime deciding where to put it on my list. When a movie gives you the kind of physical response I had to it, I think it is worth seeing.

[Citizen Rules]

Triumph of the Will....I want to say, that you guys should try to watch this like you were in the audience in 1935 without prior knowledge of Hitler, or knowledge of the National Socialist Democratic Workers Party. Try to watch the film in that contents and in that way you will get more out of the experience. I know that's hard to do, but try.

[SilentVamp]

Well, I'd been struggling with writing anything about "Triumph Of the Will". The problem that I have with the film isn't really the same as how other people feel about it. I don't know if I care to get into all of it.

[Nope1172]

Due to school stuff I have been very behind on this HoF, I will try to watch 2 films this weekend but no guarantees

[SilentVamp]

American Movie

I talked my mother into watching this one with me because there is a very local connection to it. I figured that she would maybe have some interest in it. I don't recall whether or not it being mentioned where it "took place", but the DVD stated that it was in Menomonee Falls, which is a suburb of where I'm from. So, that piqued my interest right there because I wanted to see if there was anything that was familiar to me. Not too much, but I could tell by some of the background where he was when he was more into the city area. Everything has changed so much since this was filmed, though.

And, as some pointless side fact, someone from my family is buried at the cemetery where he worked. I have only been there a couple of times, though. You should see that place on Memorial Day with all of those huge flags in there. It is really a sight to see.

He was being allowed to edit his film at the University of Milwaukee Wisconsin. I have been told (I can't back this up :)), by someone who went there for film, that UWM has one of the best film programs in the country. I think that is where Borchardt went. He had to have gone there. I don't know if they would just let him do his work there without any prior connections.

What was up with his mispronunciation of the word "coven"?! As we were sitting there I asked my mother "How do you pronounce the word c-o-v-e-n?". She pronounced it exactly how I have been pronouncing it ever since I first had a reason to say it. And then she said "You don't put a cake in the oh-ven". I said "Why is everyone saying it like that?". She said "Because he is". So, I basically had to point it out to her that it was like the Lando situation in "The Empire Strikes Back". This whole time Han has been called "Hahn". Lando comes along and he called him "Han" - basically pronouncing it the way it was spelled. No big deal, I suppose, but just because he pronounced it that way didn't mean that Leia and C-3PO had to do it, too. They never did it before! :rolleyes: Why am I going on about this? BECAUSE IT DROVE ME CRAZY!!! Thank goodness for the guy that corrected him, right? Yeah, well, he still kept saying "coh-ven". :shrug:

Anyway.....

My mother and I actually came to the same opinions about this film.

First of all, it was funny. It had some pretty good moments in there (particularly the brief one where Mark Borchardt tells Mike Schank to make sure everyone has brown gloves - and if you've seen the film, you will know what Schank does :)).

Second, we both felt bad for the guy. He just wanted to finish this so badly. And, yes, it may have affected him in regards to some other things in life that he probably should have made more of a priority. Still, we both couldn't help but feel a little bad for him.

Third, we both hated the brother (he had two, right? - I don't know if I have his family a little mixed up in my memory, though - well, I just have the image of the one burned into my brain). It is so easy for someone like him to talk. He didn't really have to be that negative. And what is it to him how Mark's life ends up? It is Mark's life after all. I just hate it when family feels like they can just give their opinions on how someone else should live his/her life.

Fourth, who doesn't enjoy Uncle Bill? That guy was the highlight of the entire film.

Fifth, and finally, I actually thought these guys seemed like the type of people I would love to be friends with. Seriously. I found them highly entertaining and, actually, someone that I could easily relate to. And I think that helped this movie a lot. In the beginning I wasn't too sure about Borchardt (although Schank was OK from the start), but as the film progressed, the more I liked him. I think I liked him the more it went on because that gave me the chance to understand him more. I understood that he is just some person who is, basically, down on his luck, yet still has dreams. I think a lot of people in life can relate to that. I know that I definitely can.

Anyway, in conclusion, we both liked it. I think it was a very good nomination. And it now gave me the understanding of this scene:
I really never got it before. (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0dYCXVeq2yg)

4

Oh, and before I forget, I did watch "Coven". Brilliant film making? Of course not. Entertaining? Yeah. I thought it was entertaining. :D

[cricket]

The Imposter

http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/0b43900fed94b851ef55a5425a05efff/the-imposter.jpg

I had high hopes for this, because even though I didn't know the storyline, I believed it was something that suited my taste well. Sure enough, I noticed it was produced by A & E, which is a station I watch a lot of true crime shows on. It was a good bet that I would enjoy it, and I did, but in a small way it was a negative because it was nothing new to me. I had never seen this particular story before though, and it is a very interesting one. It seems unreal how far this guy got with his charade, although it's impossible to put oneself into the shoes of those fooled. The movie is very well done, and I thought it was very good, but it fell a little short of being special for me.

3.5


I have 4 left.

[Citizen Rules]

http://ms00.mask9.com/mt0x0001/10381/image/201111/salon-last-train-home-dao-yan-jian-mian-hui-poster-mask9.jpg

I enjoyed this, I always like stuff about China and this expose on a family of migrant workers was rewarding. The reward was I got to see a part of the world I would never have seen otherwise. I learned something too about the millions of Chinese who migrant from far away farms and small villages to work in the big cities in manufacturing plants for the export trade. It's crazy how hard these people work, sewing all day to make clothes for export. The big cities are covered in a brown smog and the workers sleep in little cubicles...then to go home for the Chinese New Year they scurry to buy train tickets, before they sell out...and then push and shove and cram themselves onto trains to travel home for a short visit with their families.

[neiba]

The Imposter (Bart Layton, 2012)


https://robbinsrealm.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/imposter-pic-2.jpg?w=640&h=360


My thoughts are really similar to cricket's. I think it's a very well made movie, it has not the style of a traditional documentary, as if it wanted to look like fiction. The story is indeed surprinsing and leaves you wondering at the end, which works really well! But it lacks something to be really special, I didn't connect with anyone, which made it a bit impersonal.

rating_3_5 -

[cricket]

The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl

http://cdn.brightlightsfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/026riefenstahl.jpg

This was the nomination I was looking forward to the least, only because, like for anyone else, it could be a tough watch due to it's runtime if I didn't enjoy it. Fortunately that wasn't the case, although I will say that if the movie only consisted of part I, this would've been a magnificent watch. Not that Part 2 wasn't effective, but it just didn't quite measure up to the first part. It did have some great moments, and I appreciated the thoroughness. Just as much as I enjoyed this woman's beginnings in film before Triumph of the Will, it was just as important to show what came after, even if I didn't find it quite as interesting. She really is an amazing woman, and it's incredible how sharp she was at age 90 when this film was made. I thought it was fascinating to see a first person account into so far back in history, and that was probably the biggest thing for me. There were a lot of interesting facts, and I even felt like I learned a little about the filmmaking process. This was a great nomination.

4

[Citizen Rules]

http://cdn.madman.com.au/images/series/18474-series-header.jpg

What I liked most was the intimate look inside Miyazaki's work and his studio. It was kind of telling that he sticks to a strict work schedule, (11am-9pm)... not an early riser I guess. I thought it was also telling that he described himself as a 20th century man surrounded by 21st century youngsters at the studio. You can tell he's an artist and not a money grabber. He's very dedicated to all aspects of his work. The studio looked very homey and family like. I might have thought it would have been some monster complex composed of stainless steel and pressed glass. It's good to know there are people in this world so dedicated to their art that they still create it by hand. It seems we're rushing towards the day where computers will do our creating for us...but not for Miyazaki.

I liked the cat.

[cricket]

Beauty Day

http://www.rowthree.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/BeautyDay5.jpg

I had never heard of Captain Video before, but as a Jackass fan, I was looking forward to this. I've seen the clip from when he was injured somewhere before; I recognized it right away. It must've been on the news or one of them outrageous video shows. As expected, it was quite entertaining, but then it became very endearing. I really like Ralph, and I especially like the fact that he has overcome some adversity to stay a good person, rather than to go downhill. He appears to be a lovable guy who lives life to the fullest. Another great nomination.

4

[Citizen Rules]

Nicely said Cricket. I too thought the real man behind Captain Video, Ralph, was an interesting person who's life story was sad at times but he kept going forward.

[seanc]

So glad you guys are liking Beauty Day. Give it a go GBG.

[gbgoodies]

So glad you guys are liking Beauty Day. Give it a go GBG.


Okay, I'll give it a try.

[Citizen Rules]

I think you'll like it more than you expect. It's not really about his crazy stunts, more about the man himself.

[gbgoodies]

I think you'll like it more than you expect. It's not really about his crazy stunts, more about the man himself.


I'm going to watch it with an open mind, but I don't have high hopes for it. I'm not a fan of "Jackass", and I don't understand why anyone would want to do those kinds of crazy, stupid stunts, so I don't think I'll be able to relate to this guy at all.

But who knows? I've been surprised by stuff before, so I'll give it a chance.

[Citizen Rules]

Let us know what your thoughts are on it:)

[gbgoodies]

Let us know what your thoughts are on it:)


I'll post them in this thread after I watch it.

[seanc]

West Of Memphis
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d5/West_of_Memphis_poster.jpg/215px-West_of_Memphis_poster.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:West_of_Memphis_poster.jpg)


Pretty good crime doc. I also watched The Central Park Five. Like with that film I did feel like something was missing. The story is horrendous and my heart goes out to these men and their families. I just feel like something is being left out. Good nomination and I am glad I saw it. It may get me to watch the Paradise Lost docs as well.

[gbgoodies]

I just finished watching Beauty Day (2011), and as a documentary, it's an interesting story, but I still don't understand the appeal of this guy. They called him "goofy", but he goes way beyond "goofy" and dives right into "stupidity" territory. He actually seems like a pretty intelligent guy, but for some reason, he just seems to enjoy doing these stupid and dangerous stunts.

I understand that he doesn't want to just work at a job that he doesn't enjoy, and he wants to live life to its fullest, but the way that I see it, the difference between him and people who like to do things like skydive, bungee jump, mountain climb, etc., is that they at least have some interest in safety. He just sets up these crazy stunts, without any concern for safety, and he doesn't care if he gets hurt. And he hasn't gotten any smarter about it as he's gotten older.

And the fact that his parents didn't try to stop him, and he had a girlfriend who didn't care enough about his safety to try to stop him, or at least try to change the way he did those crazy stunts, just makes me wonder what they were thinking.

I expected the interviews with him to be him reflecting on the idea of "what was I thinking" kind of stuff, but instead, he seems to try to justify what he did. I just can't seem to understand why he would do the stuff that he did, or even why people would want to watch him doing those kinds of stupid stunts. :shrug:

As a side note, while I was watching it, I was wondering why shows like his show would even be legal because on top of the fact that he could get hurt, kids have a tendency to copy these kinds of stupid stunts, and it just seems to be leaving him and the channel that aired his show open to lawsuits, so I thought what happened at the end was kind of satisfying, in a strange way.

[Guaporense]

I think he was funny and awesome!!

[Citizen Rules]

Whoops! it looks like we were wrong that GBG would like Beauty Day. Maybe it's a guy thing, we see these crazy stunts and we remember our own youth and stuff we did when we were young...or stuff we wished we would have done. When I was in school all of my friends did 'stunts'. We jumped ramps on our bikes or did stunts on skate boards and latter on with motorcycles. It was just part of growing up. A lot of it was dangerous and now I'd even call it stupid but back then it was just what we did for fun.

[gbgoodies]

Whoops! it looks like we were wrong that GBG would like Beauty Day. Maybe it's a guy thing, we see these crazy stunts and we remember our own youth and stuff we did when we were young...or stuff we wished we would have done. When I was in school all of my friends did 'stunts'. We jumped ramps on our bikes or did stunts on skate boards and latter on with motorcycles. It was just part of growing up. A lot of it was dangerous and now I'd even call it stupid but back then it was just what we did for fun.


Maybe that's my problem. I never did those kinds of stupid stunts. I was basically a good kid. I never had a desire to jump off the roof, or climb trees for any reason. I rode my bicycle on the sidewalk, just like my mother told me to do. If there was someone walking on the sidewalk, I slowed down or stopped to let them pass. I didn't jump ramps or anything like that. I never had a desire to ride a motorcycle, and I was only a passenger on one once in my life, and that was out of necessity. I can't even ride a skateboard without falling, or stand on roller skates. I guess I was just a boring kid. :shrug:

[seanc]

I'm not zany like the captain either but that doesn't mean he is not a compelling character. Film would be boring to me if I just enjoyed watching people who represented all my ideals. I can try to understand what makes this guy tick on some level without ever wanting to do these things myself. I'm mystified by his motivations as well, that's what makes the doc good. Put a camera on me for a few months, now you have a doc that is a piece of garbage. "Oh look he is sitting at his desk again. Now he is having a quiet dinner with his kids. Geeze, he's getting on MoFo again!"

[mark f]

Who'd want to watch that boring crap? :) Actually quite a few of our slow cinema-loving MoFos.

[gbgoodies]

I'm not zany like the captain either but that doesn't mean he is not a compelling character. Film would be boring to me if I just enjoyed watching people who represented all my ideals. I can try to understand what makes this guy tick on some level without ever wanting to do these things myself. I'm mystified by his motivations as well, that's what makes the doc good. Put a camera on me for a few months, now you have a doc that is a piece of garbage. "Oh look he is sitting at his desk again. Now he is having a quiet dinner with his kids. Geeze, he's getting on MoFo again!"


I understand what you're saying, that if this guy's life was as boring as mine, nobody would want to watch a documentary about him, and I agree with that, but I just can't understand what makes this guy tick on any level. The stunts that he does aren't fun to watch. They're just stupid and dangerous.

And it's not the dangerous part that bothers me. It's the stupid part that bothers me. To me, there's nothing enjoyable about watching a guy do something that stupid. If I saw that guy in real life, I wouldn't want to stand around and watch him. I'd probably call the police and tell them that there's a crazy person who's going to kill himself someday if someone doesn't stop him.

The shame of it is that in his interviews, he comes across as a pretty intelligent guy. He's not the dumb guy that he looks like as Capt. Video. If he could find a better way to express himself, he might actually be an interesting person.

[seanc]

Who'd want to watch that boring crap? :) Actually quite a few of our slow cinema-loving MoFos.

Ironically Minio would give my taste in movies a 0/5 but my life a 5/5. I like it. ;)

[seanc]

I understand what you're saying, that if this guy's life was as boring as mine, nobody would want to watch a documentary about him, and I agree with that, but I just can't understand what makes this guy tick on any level. The stunts that he does aren't fun to watch. They're just stupid and dangerous.

And it's not the dangerous part that bothers me. It's the stupid part that bothers me. To me, there's nothing enjoyable about watching a guy do something that stupid. If I saw that guy in real life, I wouldn't want to stand around and watch him. I'd probably call the police and tell them that there's a crazy person who's going to kill himself someday if someone doesn't stop him.

The shame of it is that in his interviews, he comes across as a pretty intelligent guy. He's not the dumb guy that he looks like as Capt. Video. If he could find a better way to express himself, he might actually be an interesting person.

I'm with you mostly. I don't watch these kinds of shows either. The difference is I do find them compelling as characters. Really no different than people who climb Everest or anything extreme. They have a sensibility that I don't and I am intrigued as to why.

[neiba]

Beauty Day (Jay Cheel, 2011)

http://www.hippocampusmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/beauty-day-cover.jpg


I never find these kind of stunts funny so the theme of the documentary was not particularly interesting to me, which made me enjoy it less than some people here.
Also, the way it was done seemed kind of amateurish, which is something I don't usually have problems with, but again, when the subject isn't compelling, you start to focus on other stuff that speak to you in some manner.
However, I liked the human side of this: especially the story of the ex-girlfriend and the last few minutes. It kind of saved the movie, IMO.
Not a bad movie, not a great one either.

2.5+

[SilentVamp]

I'm just letting it be known that I am still in this. :) I have 3 to watch. One is sitting in the house right now. And I finally downloaded "Beauty Day". So I will be watching that one of these days. The only issue is "The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness". I had it here a few weeks ago. I didn't get to watch it and the library wouldn't let me renew it. So, I had to request it all over again . That particular copy (the second one that I received) I could renew. I didn't feel up to watching it until this past Sunday. I put the DVD in and it didn't work. :mad: So, now I am waiting for that first copy to arrive again to watch it. :rolleyes: Then I will be done with the documentaries.

[Camo]

So everyone knows i have 5 left. I'm planning on watching Food Inc, Triumph of the Will and Citizens nom in the next few days, just been a bit busy lately.

[seanc]

This is as good a time as any for a role call.

I have two. Citizen's nom is at the house. That will leave me with Baraka.

[Camo]

After the three i mentioned i have Beauty Day and Last Train Home. Also that docs name should be officially changed to Citizens nom :p

[seanc]

After the three i mentioned i have Beauty Day and Last Train Home. Also that docs name should be officially changed to Citizens nom :p

:D The name is as long as the doc. :p

[cricket]

I have two left-

Baraka
West of Memphis

[Sane]

Five left but watching Triumph of the Will at the moment. Have been on holidays so not watched too many movies but now I'm back home I'll be finished in a few days.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

I have only watched 3

:eek:

[Camo]

I have only watched 3

:eek:

There is plenty of time :). I'd be in the same boat as you if i hadn't already seen a few of them.

[Thursday Next]

I still have 5 left to watch.

[seanc]

Citizen's Nom:(aka Leni And The Horrible, Wonderful, Really Bad Life) ;)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Wonder%2C_horr_life_leni_cover.jpg/220px-Wonder%2C_horr_life_leni_cover.jpg

This is a really good documentary and I am very glad Citizen changed his nomination. If I have a complaint it is that I would have liked it to be about an hour shorter. That is because I was a bit bored with most of her technique talk. However when they were talking to her about her affiliation/non-affiliation with Hitler I was engrossed. Leni is a completely compelling character. She is disingenuous when talking about her relationship with Hitler and other Nazis but couldn't be more genuine when talking about her craft. She is obviously a genius when it comes to capturing images and that comes through very clearly. I believe her when she says that is all she was interested in. I even believe that she was trying to be blind when it comes to what the Nazis were becoming. However I don't think she was as ignorant about what was happening as she claims. There is a reason she keeps claiming that she told Hitler she would only make the one propaganda film, and it is not because she thought Hitler was going to be too tough on crime.

I really found the parts about her obsession with the male figure compelling as well. It would probably never lead me to call her a fascist like it has others. That is an interesting argument though and her obsession with perfection is absolutely undeniable.

In hope some good conversation gets going about this film because this is a person that there is a lot to dive into with. Great nom Citizen.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

I started watching American Movie tonight but stopped at the halfway point. I'm not liking it. I'll finish it tomorrow.

[Camo]

Haven't watched that one yet Sean, plus one for Citizens Nom though :D

[Guaporense]

I am stuck. I need to finish watching the couple I have left to be done with this HoF! :)

[Sane]

The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness: KInd of just following some Ghibli people around rather than providing much in depth information. Still. I liked it because Miyazaki is an interesting character. It is perhaps a bit reverential in terms of its treatment of him but that's to be expected I guess. Like others have said, needed more Takahata because without him it came off more like an ad for The Wind Rises rather than a look at Ghibli. Anyway, despite those issues I thought it was good.

[Sane]

Have watched Triumph of the Will & the Leni Riefenstahl documentary over the last couple of days. I've got a lot of thoughts but I'm not sure if I can put them together too coherently ...

Triumph of the Will brings up questions that I guess can only be answered as individuals. Can I separate the "quality" of a film from its content and its purpose? The answer, for me, is no. Those things are all part of the film so whilst I can appreciate various aspects my overall impression needs to take them all into account. I encountered this recently when I watched Birth of a Nation. Sure, it was ground breaking, massively influential and visually amazing ... but it was also the most racist piece of ***** I've ever seen. I rated it 0/100 because regardless of those things I stated, what it is actually about and its purpose is abhorrent. They are all part of the film so I must take them into account.

Having said all that, TotW doesn't actually get into anything morally objectionable - sure it's about Nazi's but it doesn't show them doing anything wrong, doesn't try to justify any wrongdoing and the Nazis had not yet done the things that we all hate them for. So, it's basically just a well shot simple propaganda film with the message being "Hitler is Awesome!" which, at the time, was a pretty widespread view. So basically I'm fine with the content but I still didn't think it was a great documentary. Interesting, sure, but it didn't really ask or answer any questions or provide any insights. It was just a recording of a point in history. Kind of like a news item but technically much more advanced.

So, I liked how it looked and I respect it greatly for that but as a documentary it felt a bit lacking ...

On to the LR documentary. I enjoyed this much more. It takes a little while to get going because the pre TotW stuff didn't interest me greatly but once we start talking about Hitler it is very good. LR is interesting in that she didn't, to me, come across as particularly likeable which makes it much easier to judge her. Overall I came down firmly on the side of "Nazi sympathiser" but that maybe because her short temper and her bending of the truth made me question pretty much everything she said. What really made up my mind was her joy watching scenes from TotW (maybe just because she was watching her own film) and her sadness when talking about Hitler losing his grip. By the end it felt like she had spent forty years going over her memories and she had effectively changed them - so it was like she wasn't lying but was instead giving a version of the "truth" that she had constructed.

I found the latter parts, when she was in Africa, to be very interesting also. She was definitely a complex person :)

It worked out well having these two films nominated together.

[seanc]

Really good write up Sane. It may seem easy to say but I think I feel the exact same way about the movies. Although, I think TOTW bothered me a bit more than you. What do you think about the assertion that Leni is a fascist because of the way she films the masculine image?

[SilentVamp]

Truth be told, I actually started to question whether or not I fully understood the definition of "fascist" when they directed it towards her involving the male body. I suppose I get what they are saying, but at the same time it still doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I am just stupid. Maybe.

As far as the film itself, I had interest in her pre-"Triumph" life. I thought her time in Africa was interesting. But for all of the time spent on "Triumph Of the Will" (which is really the main reason people are still interested in her) and "Olympia", I was kind of bored. Maybe because I have a pretty strong opinion about "Triumph Of the Will", and I didn't want to hear her talk about this and that about her film making. Honestly, and maybe I am really blind, I am not too fond of her way of bringing a film together either. I don't think it is all that spectacular.

And as I was watching it and listening to her talk about being ignorant to the Nazis, well, the lady doth protest too much.

[Sane]

Yeah, I didn't completely get the male body thing either. I understand that Nazis were quite obsessed with the human body and creating a master race but I thought that was just something they were into rather than it being something all fascists do. Also thought the idea of a perfect African male doesn't really fit with their philosophy. To be honest, while I was watching it I thought she just really likes naked black dudes ...

I found that whole section to be fascinating though, even if I was a bit unsure what the interviewer was getting at.

[seanc]

My mind certainly wouldn't have gone to fascist without the films help. I do think her preoccupation with perfection and the athletic male body is fascinating and definitely worth noting.

@Vamp we were drawn to the exact opposite parts of the movie but your note about her not being your kind of director is interesting. Because she doesn't seem to concerned with storytelling my guess is I wouldn't be into her movies too much either. She does seem to be an expert at capturing images though. So from that perspective I found her interesting.

[Citizen Rules]

You guys should try her first film that she directed, The Blue Light (1932). It has both a compelling story and amazing cinematography technique. It's basically shot as a silent film with the sparse soundtrack being added latter in the studio.

Link to my short review: The Blue Light (http://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1248283-the-blue-light.html)

[Citizen Rules]

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=23001&stc=1&d=1446569051

Citizen's Nom;) (aka The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl.)

I'm glad some of you are liking this doc. I thought it was important as we're movie fans here and this is part of film history, not to mention world history.

What struck me most about this film was with a turn of events, a promising director who might have achieved greatness instead chose to cast her fortune with Hitler and ended up a hated woman. There's something about how one's life can turn on a dime and fortunes change, Leni's life certainly did that. Had things been different, if she had came to America in the 1930s like so many other German directors did...we might be talking about Leni and her films, instead she's nearly forgotten and when remembered she's scorned.

I watched this documentary a couple of months ago because I wanted to know something about the person who made Triumph of the Will and Olympia. I never expected to see such a dynamic and colorful individual. Leni Riefenstahl did have a wonderful horrible life.
.


.

[Thursday Next]

Anybody know where to (legally) find the Leni Riefenstahl doc?

[SilentVamp]

Truthfully? I just thought that this idea of hers of a perfect male body was some sort of fetish for her. Plain and simple. I really didn't think much else about it. Especially since she liked the African men, too.

When she was filming "Olympia", I thought the whole reason she was so focused on those bodies to begin with was to show the movement of the muscles and highlight what makes the athlete what he is. I am specifically talking about the part where she filmed the men as if they were athletes back in Ancient Greece. For that reason alone I didn't understand why she was called a "fascist". I completely understood why she was filming them like that, though.

As for being a good filmmaker, which I suppose could be somewhat different than a good storyteller, I just wasn't impressed. Visually speaking, I just didn't think she created anything that memorable. Maybe my opinion of the woman herself helped to make me somewhat subconsciously prejudiced against her work, too. I know that I should separate the two, but she really rubbed me the wrong way. There is nothing wrong with being good at whatever it is that a person does. And there is nothing wrong with this person knowing they are good at it. So there is certainly nothing wrong with being proud of the final result of what comes from a person's talent. BUT there is, as far as I am concerned, a difference between being a person who is proud of what their talent can produce and being an arrogant bitch - to put it bluntly. And that is all she was to me. Maybe I am the only one who observed her to be so, but that is really how she came across to me.

And, again, I don't think she was ignorant to the ways of the Nazis.

As far as her not coming to America, she said it was because she was involved with some man. Oh, come on!! :rolleyes: She had an opportunity to get away and maybe really get a good career for herself. Instead she says that she stayed back in Germany for a man?! A man that she didn't even end up with? For what I'm assuming is an independent woman, who seemed to have a "strong" mind, that is such a weak answer. Just say you didn't leave because you didn't want to leave Germany. Because if she really did stay behind for a man, then that really took her "strong" image down by quite a bit.


Honestly, I don't want to judge this documentary based on her. You see, I read a biography recently. And I, of course, developed some sort of opinions about the person that the book was about. That is just natural. And such a thing will happen when you watch a documentary, too. But I saw some reviews about that book where barely a thing was written about the book itself and more about its subject. In a way, it is a little unfair to the author. The same here. I didn't really want to review this film too strongly based on my opinion of the woman. I wanted to have it be based on how well the story of her life was told instead. And I guess the film was OK. I just did NOT like her. Not in the least. Not in any way. And that really distracted me from giving more attention to how the film itself was.

[mark f]

So then, based on what you said, what do you think was the reason the director made the film? Was it to get you to feel the way you did or to somehow feel better about her than you did? Did the director, Ray Müller, do a good job of presenting her life and trying to get at the truth behind it?

[mark f]

It's not so much how she filmed it that was being attacked (and I have no idea if Susan Sontag would have said that if she didn't already associate her with Nazis), but the fact that the subject matter was always the best-looking, the most-perfect , or "Aryan" ideal, even if it was a group of black Africans. Leni did have a predilection for that form and her films showed that, but if you're making something about Olympic athletes, you can't help that. I don't know if you've seen my review of this, so I'll post it. :)
The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl (Ray Müller, 1993) 4-

http://beyondutopia.net/fringe-fotos/Lenibook5.jpeghttp://eurekavideo.co.uk/images/films/large/the-wonderful-horrible-life-of-leni-riefenstahl.jpghttp://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/Riefenstahl/images/Riefensthal5.jpg

I suppose that a normal person would probably respond to this film based on how much they know about Leni Riefenstahl and how much they care about 20th-century history. I would also suppose that MoFos would automatically think more highly of this film and be more fascinated by it than the average movie watcher. Before we go into Leni Riefenstahl, let me tell you that this is a German documentary. The narration is in English. However, the director (the interviewer) and Riefenstahl (the 90-year-old interviewee still with a brilliant mind) both speak in German and are subtitled in English. The film is three hours long but it feels about half as long. Leni Riefenstahl is one of the most fascinating subjects I can think of for a movie and this is a very strong film.

http://www.various-thoughts.com/pictures/leni_riefenstahl/leni_riefenstahl_dancer.jpghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UriVZi63N7E/SflPkUhNAYI/AAAAAAAADUk/XIeIvHkr6p4/s400/tanz08.jpg

Leni Riefenstahl started out as an avant-garde dancer on stage and progressed to making films with her cinematic mentor Arnold Fanck who made some "mountain films" with her where she climbed and acted barefoot doing all of her own stunts. She parlayed this knowledge of showbusiness in Germany into a career as a director. It was after this that she caught the attention of Hitler who wanted her to make a film which changed her life.

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/051123/134027__triumph_l.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cn2AgOeK6U8/SHJc2_LlNkI/AAAAAAAABBM/2q7QMBjiB8M/s400/triumph_of_the_will_stadium_shot.jpg

Riefenstahl is predominantly associated with the Third Reich because she directed The Triumph of the Will, a document of the Nuremburg Rallies of 1934. It's generally considered the greatest propaganda film ever made and something which made it easier for the German people to wholeheartedly swallow Naziism, even if the Party had already been in power for awhile. It was also incredibly cinematic. The fact that Riefenstahl never denounced Hitler or the Nazis has always been highly questioned, and the director here grills her constantly, but she never backs down from saying that she was apolitical, was never a member of the Nazi Party and never knew that the Nazis had adopted the Final Solution. She also says that she wishes that she had never made the film (even though it won awards throughout Europe) and that after WWII she was found to not be worthy of any punishment, even if she was found to be a "Nazi sympathizer".

http://www.dasblauelicht.net/OlympTorch1.jpghttp://www.blackpast.org/files/blackpast_images/owens_jesse.jpg

It was next that Riefenstahl directed the official document of the 1936 Olympic Games, held in Berlin and attended by all the countries of the world. It was supposed to show the superiority of the "Aryan Race" but with Jesse Owens winning a record number of Gold Medals, it actually highlighted the strengths of what Hitler would consider inferior races. Olympia is one of the most groundbreaking films ever made, basically inventing many techniques on how to make a film artistic and mind-blowing. Check out the slo-mo diving scenes to see what I mean - the reverse footage is incredible. Although, it was here that Riefenstahl was first accused of her "fascistic" obsession of the Body Beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwmYFz01MxA

http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/images/dienuba/nuba_34g.jpghttp://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/images/bio/15.jpg

Riefenstahl basically retired from public life and as I mentioned before, she was "acquitted" of any war crimes by an official tribunal. In the 1970s, she went to Africa to photograph the Nuba tribe, and this time, even Susan Sontag accused her of being a fascist for advocating the Cult of the Body Beautiful. Riefenstahl calls Sontag "intelligent" but spouting "rubbish". Later, she also took up deep sea diving to get spectacular underwater footage from the Pacific Ocean. She even lied about her age to get her diving license. She was 90 when this film was made and she lived to be 101 and is one of those people who are claimed to have died from "natural causes".

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t203/bejmaf/riefenstahlocean.jpg

In this film, director Müller goes after her constantly, trying to get her to reveal some information about her inclination towards Naziism, but she constantly refuses and seems indignant about being asked the questions too often. When asked why others fled Nazi Germany, she says most of them were emigrants or had nothing to stay for. She also claims that Hitler did good things by putting people back to work and giving them national pride. At no time does she ever "confess" to having any knowledge about what was going on with the Jews. She also finds it distasteful that she has to report, once again, that no, she wasn't the lover of Hitler or Goering or Goebbels or any Nazis. But, near the end of this film, when it's suggested that many people are still waiting for some kind of apology from her, she does say this on camera and it basically ends the film: "Being sorry isn't nearly enough, but I can't tear myself apart or destroy myself. It's so terrible. I've suffered anyway for over half a century and it will never end, until I die. It's such an incredible burden, that to say 'sorry'... it's inadequate, it expresses too little." Does that sound like someone who has come to terms with her life or someone who seems in denial? If you want to find out in your own mind, watch this important film.

http://www.uta.fi/festnews/fn2001/to/kuvat/lenisin.jpghttp://faculty.smu.edu/dsimon/A%20Film%20Course/Class1/Day1/Riefenstahl1.jpg

[Citizen Rules]

Thanks for posting your review, Mark.

It's not so much how she filmed it that was being attacked (and I have no idea if Susan Sontag would have said that if she didn't already associate her with Nazis), but the fact that the subject matter was always the best-looking, the most-perfect , or "Aryan" ideal, even if it was a group of black Africans... That makes sense, thanks. So to Susan Sontage I would say, Leni could hardly be a good facist if she finds African men an attractive subject to photograph. And she did give the impression that she was impressed with the African men. I think Leni just likes men!

[Citizen Rules]

I just read your review, nicely done and well rounded. I liked your ending paragraph about what Leni said about being sorry was not enough.

My impression of Leni was she was proud to be a German, she admired Hitler in the early days, but not the things he did towards the end of the war. She was proud of her work on Triumph of the Will but hated the film for ruining her life... And she hated Goebbles!

[cricket]

Anybody know where to (legally) find the Leni Riefenstahl doc?

I got the DVD from Netflix

[SilentVamp]

So then, based on what you said, what do you think was the reason the director made the film? Was it to get you to feel the way you did or to somehow feel better about her than you did? Did the director, Ray Müller, do a good job of presenting her life and trying to get at the truth behind it?
I haven't looked too much into this film to see if he actually gave a reason as to why he made the film, if he has said anything at all. But I seriously think that he did it, as he was a filmmaker (who may have admired her work), to showcase her career. I figured that since there was (and still is) this stigma attached to her name because of her relationship with Hitler, he honestly wanted to let her tell her side of the story. And I think she tried every way to get out of talking about it. But when she did talk, it just wasn't believable to me. I think he wanted to paint her in a better light, but I don't think he was overly successful with that. And I don't think that was his fault. He didn't have much to work with. She wasn't the easiest of people. At least I didn't think so. He did alright with telling the history of her life. He was fine with that. I just think he failed when it came to the most intriguing part of her life. Again, that was more her fault than his.

I think Leni just likes men!
That was exactly my point. In this aspect I will defend her. That is all I think it was.

My impression of Leni was she was proud to be a German, she admired Hitler in the early days, but not the things he did towards the end of the war. She was proud of her work on Triumph of the Will but hated the film for ruining her life... And she hated Goebbles!
I don't know. I think if all had worked out for the Nazis she would've been fine with it. I really do. Being proud to be German has nothing to do with her admiration for Hitler. I know this may be argued, but I just don't think so. If you ask me, the true lovers of the country were the ones who left (who had the means to do so) because they didn't want to stay and see what their country was going to become. F.Y.I. Not all Germans were blinded by the glow of the new, brilliant Germany that Hitler said it was going to be.

I am not going to get into anything too personal. That is a major reason why I haven't really commented on "Triumph Of the Will". Once I start, I know I will go off on other things that aren't directly connected to the film itself, but then again, it is. I have a personal connection to that country during that time. And that connection has made me develop extremely strong feelings about so many different things. And when I hear someone like her not even apologize, it aggravates me. I don't think she has to apologize for the film itself. Definitely not. But she could at least apologize in the sense that it may have been something that contributed to a lot of misery in life. Even if she didn't knowingly create a film that might do that, she knows it did. So, she could still apologize (to even appease people) that she inadvertently helped to cause a problem for the world. And she still, in the end, avoided it and turned it around and made it all about herself. Oh, her poor, miserable life. :rolleyes:

Besides, I don't know what she is moaning about. She got herself a man 40 years younger than herself and he was with her for all those years. I just hope that his body was to her liking. :)

[cricket]

Baraka

http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/d091cd4331b684d6fafdc5213b90b591/baraka.jpg

This turned out to be a very tough watch for me. I had a hard time getting through five minutes at a time. I knew going in that there was no kind of narration, and I was ok with that, but not having any type of subject matter was a big problem for me. I get that some people will find this movie to be deep, but I'm not a spiritual person at all. The result was that this was like a long IMAX movie that I'd see at the aquarium, but without the effect of me feeling like I was in the picture. It's certainly beautifully shot and the sound is great, but it didn't do anything for me.

2



One left for me-West of Memphis

[Camo]

Finally watched Food Inc. I really don't have much to say about, i realize that it is an important subject but it failed to hold my interest enough for me to want to rewatch it or look further into the subject. Still i'm glad it was nominated.

Four left. Next up will be Triumph of the Will and Citizens nom. Really looking forward to them as i've had to avoid the discussion lately.

[cricket]

West of Memphis

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/12/22/10-618a1126b15efb0faaa405249596b7898e6e907d-s800-c15.jpg

With having seen the Paradise Lost trilogy, I wasn't very excited to watch this. The story interests me very much, but that trilogy is about seven hours long, and I just figured that this would be more of the same. It was, but only partly. With this movie coming out only three years ago, there was a lot of new information. Oh boy do I hate prosecutors. It's a sensational story, and I thought this movie did the story justice. It's right in my wheelhouse, and I loved it.

4+


And I'm all done.

[Citizen Rules]

I'm basically done, I will do a rewatch of Triumph of the Will, but I did see that only a few months ago.

I'm not watching Swan's nomination American Movie until I see that he's still in this Hof. I like Swan and I'm sure his nom is a good one, but I don't want to watch another nom from someone who might drop out.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Speaking of Swan, does anyone know where she is? Swan hasn't posted in 12 days.

[seanc]

Speaking of Swan, does anyone know where she is? Swan hasn't posted in 12 days.

Swan was leaving HOFs before he dissappeared anyway. If you haven't already watched his nom I would skip it like Citizen said. That being said, watch it anyway because it's pretty great.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Thanks Sean. :)

[Citizen Rules]

http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7451/16397264270_08b8799ef4_b.jpg
Triumph of the Will

How do I rate this? If I went with my gut instinct, I'd say: Nazis bad, score -10. Many of the documentaries we watched were about people and businesses that had done bad or at least questionable things. So I'm not rating this based on what the Nazis would do a few years latter.

As far as film making goes: (cinematography and editing), director/producer/editor Leni Riefenstahl did amazing work. Let's face it, it's hard to make a political rally look exciting. She did a fine job of telling the back story of the Nuremberg Nazi Party Congress of 1934.

We get a brief prologue that lets the viewer know that Germany had suffered after World War 1 ...and that the country was in shambles until 19 months earlier when Adolf Hitler had came to power. According to the film, everything in Germany is now rosy.

Then we see that amazing flight through the clouds, as the Fuhrer makes his way to the waiting masses at Nuremberg. We see the medieval town of Nuremberg appear from the mist. We're then treated to many beautiful views of buildings that years latter would be pummeled by falling bombs. And that's when I felt a knot in my stomach...as the camera flies over a quaint street in Nuremberg, I remembered seeing the same buildings in a film made after the war, only then they were bombed out shells.

On the ground, Leni shows us the excited crowds. They were so enthusiastic too as they stood shoulder to shoulder, sealed in a moment and frozen on film, like fossils on a cliff wall. As you look at those town folks remember a sad fact, most will be dead in 10 years time...By 1945 many millions of people will had lost their lives.

Funny how the scenes of the soup kitchen and the cooking of bratwurst looked almost idyllic as bonfires were lit and the Nazi youth for a moment are only youths having fun on a summer day. As odd as it might sound there's real hope in the faces of those youth. But they're just expendable pawns with no idea what their leader has in store for the world. I can't help but think that the German people were like all people who need hope, desperately willing to following what ever path comes their way as long as it promises a better future.

If the Nazis are good for one thing, it's making a spectacle on a grand scale. They look formidable, unstoppable too. At times they even look benign, at other times the adage, 'mob rules' seems coined just for them.

I watched Triumph of the Will a few months ago. I'm interested in history and have seen much about WWII. But the one factor that never seems to get covered in films is why did the German people fall under the spell of Hitler? How could such things as concentration camps happen? What did the German people see that made them want to go down that path?

I found that answer in Triumph of the Will...or more accurately it's what I didn't find that answered my questions.

[Nope1172]

Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room
https://amcdavitt032.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/enron-the-smartest-guys-in-the-room-original1.jpg
I've been pretty behind with this HoF so I hope to catch up big time this and next weekend. I started my catch up with Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room. I feel like I would have enjoyed this documentary much more if I was more interested in the subject material. Because my father works in the stock market, I watched this with him and he loved it. I can understand how this was an incredibly documentary technically. The editing was very well done. Even though I had little to no interest in the source material I was entertained during the entire movie. This is the exact opposite of another documentary I watched for this HoF (Kingdom of Dreams and Madness) in which I was very interested with the source material and was bored out of my mind. Even though it's not my favorite, I still think that this documentary is very well edited and put together and I enjoyed watching it.
3.5-

[Camo]

Glad you liked it Nope :). Seems just about everybody has had the same reaction to it.

[SilentVamp]

I finished my documentary viewing last night with "Beauty Day". So, I am now done. :yup: I will be writing some more about these films in the next few days.

[Swan]

As many of you guys have probably guessed would happen, yeah, I'm going to drop out of this HoF. I bet a lot of you are rolling your eyes at me as you read this, and that's okay. I was hoping to salvage any last passion I had for cinema and rejuvenate it with these HoF's, but it just didn't happen. I'm not into cinema anymore. I'll sit down to watch a movie and I'll just get antsy to go do something. Sometimes I'll have a good time - but that's usually when I'm with a friend or two. I've spent so much time watching movies over the years that I feel I missed out on a lot of stuff, and now I'm making up for that.

I promise I won't join any future HoF's, even if my passion for cinema returns. There's not even a little bit in me that is reconsidering, and that's because I don't want to disappoint or annoy again. Knowing my current track record of dropping out, I should be banned from them anyway.

Again I'm really sorry to everyone, but I hope the nom was worth the watch for those of you who did watch it.

Lastly, just want to give props to my boy Sean. You're an awesome host dude, and I'm sorry I ended up being such a worthless participant.

[cricket]

It wasn't completely worthless; your nom will be a major player on my list for the docs countdown. It probably would've been my #1 here.

[Citizen Rules]

Swan, I will always be happy to talk to you any time:) These things happen and if you are not into cinema right now it's OK! I think well of you, so don't even worry at all about dropping out, all is good.:):D

[SilentVamp]

Oh, that is too bad that you decided to not be in this anymore, Swan. I really liked your nomination. It would have placed very high when I finally made my list. :yup: But I completely understand that if you don't have the desire to do it, you just don't have it. That is OK. :)

[seanc]

It's all good Swan. I'm glad I saw your nom, it has been one of my favorites.

[Swan]

Thanks for being so cool about it you guys. It means a lot.

[Thursday Next]

I didn't watch your nom yet Swan, although I still mean to watch it before the top 100 submission.

[neiba]

Food Inc. (Robert Kenner, 2008)

I have been trying to avoid these kind of documentaries but now that I had to watch it, I feel sick! Sometimes ignorance is a bless.
My eating habits are not the best. I mean, everytime I eat at my parents' place all the meat, vegetables and food is natural, produced in my grandmother's backyard. But that's only on weekends, during the week I eat a lot of meat bought in the supermaket or in cheap restaurants.
I already had made a decision to cut down on sugar consumption, but now I will start to be aware of the organic food offer every time I go shopping for food. Portugal it's not as bad as USA in terms of food producing, it's a fact. (I mean, I can't understand why you people drink some of the juices you make - I tried some in an american supermarket here in Portugal and it's disgusting!). But multinationals are now everywhere and with all the imported food you can never be too cautious.
Overall, it's a very well made documentary, a bit too preaching, but I think that's the point. The fact that I know it works is that even if I will not become a vegetarian, I am way too lazy and I like way too much meat to achieve that, but I will definitely be more careful about my food choices, which was the whole point of this documentary.

3.5+

[Friendly Mushroom!]

I'm not sure what I want to do with this. I feel rushed but I'm sure I can finish by the deadline, but I have other stuff to do like studying and being social.

Don't consider this a drop out request but I may soon. I'm not sure.

[Thursday Next]

I'm having trouble getting hold of Beauty Day.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Yeah I think I am going to drop out of this. I'm sorry. I know I can get this done but I feel stressed with school and my social life so I'm going to act in my self interest here and focus on more important tasks. I will keep the 8th HoF going but after that, I'm taking a break from these. I'm also going to give the 50's HoF to someone who wants to host it. Again I'm sorry. I might change my mind, though I doubt that. :(

It also pains me that everyone has already watched Foot Inc. :docbrown:

[Citizen Rules]

It's OK Friendly Mushroom:) You're still one of my favorite MoFos, so no problem:) and I did enjoy your nomination Food Inc....I hope you will be able to join another Hof in the future.

[SilentVamp]

I'm having trouble getting hold of Beauty Day.
I ended up getting it from Google Play.

[Thursday Next]

Thanks, vamp, I'll look there.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d5/West_of_Memphis_poster.jpg/215px-West_of_Memphis_poster.jpg

I know I kinda dropped out of the Doc HoF but I had this checked out from the library so I figured I should watch it. Hell I might re-join if I'm allowed to. :D

[seanc]

Please do.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

https://is5-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music/v4/ac/f3/23/acf32386-61fe-44d7-f8d8-a232bfd37d05/source/1500x1500sr.jpg

3 - 3.5

A fine documentary but it could have been slightly better if it was shortened by thirty minutes. The first forty five minutes felt like they had a lot of filler to me for some reason.

Also, what do you guys think of those who believe the WM3 actually committed the murders? (http://www.westmemphisthreefacts.com) I haven't read the entire link yet as I'm tired (though I have browsed through it and read a bits from several paragraphs and all of the headlines) but I'll read it tomorrow to come up with my own opinion.

[seanc]

Also, what do you guys think of those who believe the WM3 actually committed the murders? (http://www.westmemphisthreefacts.com) I haven't read the entire link yet as I'm tired (though I have browsed through it and read a bits from several paragraphs and all of the headlines) but I'll read it tomorrow to come up with my own opinion.

Interesting read. My problem with West Of Memphis was the same one I had while watching The Central Park Five. One it seems like they only show you what they want you to know to cast doubt. Most importantly why do these people confess to these murders? I get the we were interrogated for hours and wore down argument. I never understand after. Take it back, say you were under duress. I will never understand that.

[SilentVamp]

What was the Central Park Five again? Is that the rape case?

I think that whether the story is going to be for or against the WM3 (I just read your link, FM), it will always be biased to the side of the story that they are telling. I just do.

I don't really know if they committed any crime, but I think that one single piece of evidence is the most damning to someone else and not them. That is that single hair that was tied into the knot. And it was the stepfather's (he was the stepfather, right?). I think that is something to consider. That is a reason I tend to lean towards them not being guilty (also, if his friend is telling the truth, his behavior towards him in that phone call).

As far as those guys confessing, I think their attitudes (especially Echols) was one of punky, young guys. He may have killed those boys. He may not have. I don't know. But I know he had a serious attitude problem. Considering his situation, and if he hadn't committed any crime, I guess I can see that. But you would think, even at the age that he was (I kind of get tired of people using age for an excuse but I think it can apply here), he should've known better than to stop being the way that he was because it wasn't helping his case any if he hadn't done anything wrong.

[Camo]

Personally i think the first Paradise Lost is the best one since it is more about severe flaws in the Justice System and image judgement than assigning or deflecting blame from anyone. That was such a hit that it gave a boost in funds and just support for the boys especially Damiens defense. One thing i always thought was that while Jesse was clearly coerced into confessing, he was also following the exact story that was produced for Damien and Jasons trial, i don't believe for a second that Jesse told the whole truth at any time but that he followed whatever he was being told to say.

Personally i think the dad (not Mark Byers) was the best suspect, not that i'm convinced that it was him or that any of the other suspects were innocent though. Really want to know what there was to the Mr.Bojangles incident if anything too. Honestly even if this case gets an 100% proven perp, i will always wonder what that Bojangles thing was all about.

[Camo]

Interesting that you mention The Central Park Five (the doc), Sean. I felt it was pure Ken Burns, using articles and newsfeeds from the time to try to create a time capsule for people who weren't there. Doing that he can obviously skew peoples perception by showing pieces of news that lean either way. Did he not accurately represent the sentiment of the time it happened when people were calling for their heads, then later on when new evidence came to light they suddenly became "the central park five" (obviously i would've reacted the same both ways i imagine)? I'm biased as i love, Civil War and The War and i don't see a problem there.

I'm honestly asking in those questions btw, i know you are from New York and are a year or two older than me you're 25 right ;). So i know you'll have personal experience with that case that i never will.

[SilentVamp]

I like to take notes on what I want to remember to mention and I can't find them. So, I will have to go off of my memory the best that I can. I apologize in advance, but don't expect anything too spectacular with what I am going to write. Oh, this is frustrating. :(

Kingdom of Dreams and Madness

I didn't know if I would find this one to be all that interesting as I don't have much experience with Studio Ghibli (my first one was in the 8th HoF). But this film surprised me.

Essentially it is just a film about creating films. And that is alright. And I liked seeing Miyazaki as a person. Learning about his life as a child and through the years. I also liked hearing his different views when it came to life in general (I tended to agree with him). I found it interesting how Miyazaki was basing the character in "The Wind Rises" around his father. And with that, it helped to turn this movie into something that had a bit more emotion (at least from my point of view) than just your basic "making of" documentaries.

With having seen "Spirited Away", and now this film, I can say that I am much more interested in seeing more of Studio Ghibli's films. And I think that I would like to put the "The Wind Rises" next on my list. It has the sort of story that I find to be very much to my liking.

3.5

[SilentVamp]

Exit Through the Gift Shop

This was better than I anticipated, too. Not that I thought it was going to be bad. I just didn't know how interesting a story about graffiti would be. :shrug: That is really all that I thought this film was going to be about since I first heard about it.

First and foremost, I am not the biggest fan of general graffiti. And I suppose that is because I've had it on my garage a few times and I am the one to get in trouble when I don't take it off. I haven't even known it was there - I don't always drive past that side of it. :mad: But whether or not I think "street art" is art, I don't know. Do I think people shouldn't just go and paint all over a place? Of course I don't. But do I think that some of that stuff looks pretty damn good? Definitely! I will be honest and say that I sometimes really admire the talent that these guys have.

I didn't expect this film to go in the direction that it did, though. I am ignorant to the entire story. I think I've heard some of the names before, but I wouldn't have been able to attach them to anything like this.

Part of me doesn't blame anyone for being bitter if someone like Guetta could come along and be such a huge success so fast. Especially when he does nothing but create "art" based on other artists or, basically, on nothing. Truthfully, I wasn't impressed with his "work".

But is this film a hoax? I'd heard that awhile ago. I didn't know if it was a hoax. As I watched it, I could see it being so. But I really don't know. Either way, I found it to be interesting.

3

[Camo]

Make sure you watch Princess Mononoke at some point Vamp. It's my favourite Animated film.

[SilentVamp]

Personally i think the dad (not Mark Byers) was the best suspect
Now, which one was he? I have, for all of these years, gotten the two mixed up. Is he the shorter guy? I am never sure if he is the stepfather or the father. The word "step" is the part that gets me confused. Because the one that I am thinking of is the person that was supposedly the last one seen with the boys that night by that woman.

[SilentVamp]

Make sure you watch Princess Mononoke at some point Vamp. It's my favourite Animated film.
Alright. Will do. :up:

[Camo]

Now, which one was he? I have, for all of these years, gotten the two mixed up. Is he the shorter guy? I am never sure if he is the stepfather or the father. The word "step" is the part that gets me confused. Because the one that I am thinking of is the person that was supposedly the last one seen with the boys that night by that woman.

Terry Hobbs. If i remember correctly Terry was a biological father and Mark was the stepfather. Mark is the nutcase who goes into the woods declaring how guilty the WM3 are then passes the polygraph then flip flops in the third one saying he thinks they are innocent now. Terry was the last one seen with them if i remember correctly though, and i'm pretty sure he was the only one with pysical evidence tying him to it, on the rope used to tie the boys up if i am remembering right.

[seanc]

Vamp Central Park Five was about the rape case, yes. Actually Camo I think I lived in Florida at the time, I would have to double check. I don't remember it all though. What bothered me the most was the fact that they totally glossed over the fact that those boys were running in a pack and beating people up. They act like that was just a boys will be boys moment. I did the think the way the police got confessions from those boys was the most damning part of the case.

As far as the WM3, the part that was most convincing to me was the turtles. Of course that doesn't prove they didn't kill the boys just that the boys could have not been tortured so gruesomely.

In both these docs it upsets you to see how flawed we can be in our system. Of course I think that is a product of humans being flawed regardless. It is scary how we can get tunnel vision when it comes to these things though.

[seanc]

Yeah Camo, I lived in Florida at the time of the case and was 14 when they were convicted. I don't remember the case at all. I do remember some talk about gangs of people just walking around and beating the hell out of random people, they had a word for it that is escaping me. I am sure that case is probably the reason. I was living on Long Island when the case was vacated. I am surprised I don't remember hearing about it. My in-laws would have definitely been interested and remembered when the case was going on. It's also possible I heard more of this than I remember. You hear about so many horrible crimes, some don't stick with you.

[Citizen Rules]

Yeah Camo, I lived in Florida at the time of the case and was 14 when they were convicted. I don't remember the case at all. I do remember some talk about gangs of people just walking around and beating the hell out of random people, they had a word for it that is escaping me. Was the word Polar Bear Hunting?

[seanc]

Was the word Polar Bear Hunting?

Took me a few minutes on google to find it. It was driving me crazy. The word is "wilding". That was a popular term in the 90's. Haven't heard it used in real life in a long time.

[SilentVamp]

Took me a few minutes on google to find it. It was driving me crazy. The word is "wilding". That was a popular term in the 90's. Haven't heard it used in real life in a long time.
I never even heard of that going on in the 90's. That word doesn't even sound familiar. I wonder if it wasn't a "thing" that people were doing around here and that is why.

[seanc]

I never even heard of that going on in the 90's. That word doesn't even sound familiar. I wonder if it wasn't a "thing" that people were doing around here and that is why.

Maybe. When I heard it in the doc, I immediately remembered it despit not remembering that case. Pretty disgusting, and the way they talk about it in the doc really bothers me.

[SilentVamp]

Maybe. When I heard it in the doc, I immediately remembered it despit not remembering that case. Pretty disgusting, and the way they talk about it in the doc really bothers me.
I know of the case (not too much, though). But I have never seen the documentary (although I know of that, too). I will have to see if the library has it. I will give it a try, I think.

[seanc]

I know of the case (not too much, though). But I have never seen the documentary (although I know of that, too). I will have to see if the library has it. I will give it a try, I think.

It's on Netflix if you have it. They only mention the word once if I remember right, but talk about what it is quite a bit.

[SilentVamp]

It's on Netflix if you have it. They only mention the word once if I remember right, but talk about what it is quite a bit.
I will pick it up from the library on Friday. I have to go there, anyway, and they happen to have a copy at the one that I tend to go to.

I used to be a part of Netflix. I quit it because I watched every movie in my queue. :) I had a very long list, I watched all of them, and I couldn't come up with anything else to add onto the queue at the time. I figured that was money that was just being wasted. So I quit. And now my list of to-see movies is so long again (I have been keeping track of them through the years) that I have been contemplating joining Netflix again for this reason. :D

[seanc]

I will pick it up from the library on Friday. I have to go there, anyway, and they happen to have a copy at the one that I tend to go to.

I used to be a part of Netflix. I quit it because I watched every movie in my queue. :) I had a very long list, I watched all of them, and I couldn't come up with anything else to add onto the queue at the time. I figured that was money that was just being wasted. So I quit. And now my list of to-see movies is so long again (I have been keeping track of them through the years) that I have been contemplating joining Netflix again for this reason. :D

Yeah, I keep Netflix for my kids. I can see getting bored of their selection pretty quick. I would probably keep the DVD plan before streaming.

[Citizen Rules]

I have the DVD Netflix plan, only $8 with 1 DVD out at a time, it suits me. But yup, sometimes I have to think about what movie to put in my queue as I've seen a lot of their films, but not all. Their browse by genre and sub genre, works pretty good for me.

[cricket]

I don't have my own Netflix plan; I have a friend who does though, and she gets 4 DVDs at a time. She gave me her password so I put 2 of mine in the queue every week and then I pick them up when I work near her house. I also get to use her account for streaming, and she has my Hulu password.

[seanc]

I don't have my own Netflix plan; I have a friend who does though, and she gets 4 DVDs at a time. She gave me her password so I put 2 of mine in the queue every week and then I pick them up when I work near her house. I also get to use her account for streaming, and she has my Hulu password.

Sweet situation over there

[SilentVamp]

I have the DVD Netflix plan, only $8 with 1 DVD out at a time
I had the 8 DVD's at a time. And that is probably why I eventually made it through my queue. :) But it was a good deal. Not the kind of money that I want to spend now, but it was a good deal for me then.

I have a friend who does though, and she gets 4 DVDs at a time.
Do you know how much it costs her for the 4 DVD's?

[neiba]

West of Memphis (Amy Berg, 2012)


I really don't know what to say about this. It's a very nice documentary who could be in fact a bit shorter but what the hell, they were in prison for 18 years so I think I can handle 2 hours and a half about their story.
I loved the photography of the movie, with so many great images together with the awful story of the 3 guys! I can't see how can someone still believe they did it, I can't understand why it took so long for them to be arrested and how there's still a killer walking free, when there's evidence to put him away.

rating_3 +


I really need to watch these documentaries faster, I still have 4 to go!

[cricket]

Do you know how much it costs her for the 4 DVD's?

I'll find out

[Citizen Rules]

Here's the current DVD plans at Netflix. I just noticed that they changed their name and logo to DVD.COM. Is there more than one Netflix company?

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=23173&stc=1&d=1448990495

[mark f]

Same company. Netflix is what they call their streaming service - check your own account. The DVD.COM is what they call their rental service.

[Citizen Rules]

Ahh...thanks. I hadn't noticed that before today.

[seanc]

A month to go on this. Three lists in, counting mine. Check-in if you can. I saw Neiba has 4. I know Vamp has Been watching. Haven't heard from Suspect or Nope in a while. Sane either but I know he always finishes.

[Thursday Next]

I've still got four to watch. Two of those I have access to right now and the other two I think I can get. A month should be no problem.

[SilentVamp]

I know Vamp has Been watching.
Vamp has been done. :D I finished 2 weeks ago, maybe. Your nomination, sean, was the last one that I watched.

Three lists in, counting mine.
I haven't sent mine in yet because I have really been debating over where I will place a couple of those. And since I have a month, I can still take my time with my decision. :) But I will have it figured out in the next couple of weeks or so.

[cricket]

My friend just said she thinks she pays $39.99 a month for 4 DVDs and streaming access. That doesn't seem right to me.

[Citizen Rules]

It could be right.. I know that if a person has both streaming and DVDs it cost more...also if they choose Blu-Ray it's even more.

[SilentVamp]

I think (and I could have my numbers mixed up) I paid $39.99 a month for 8 movies. If I am wrong, then at some point I did pay that much and gradually went higher. I did go from one plan to the next while I was a member. That was years ago now. I am sure some of it is different than it was. Yeah, I think the streaming is what might be raising the price.

Thanks for asking, cricket. :)

[cricket]

That's what she responded when I told her it seemed high.

[seanc]

$30 seems right Cricket. It's $16 for 3, $8 for streaming. One disc is $8. So if she has blu-ray it could be that much.

[SilentVamp]

Before I send in my list (I just want to be sure), are we still including swan's nomination? Also, Friendly Mushroom's is still in, too, right?

[seanc]

Swan's no. Include Mushrooms, I can always remove from your lists if he doesn't finish.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Which I will.

[seanc]

Which I will.

Glad to hear it. You never officially said you were staying so I wasn't sure. :up::up:

[Citizen Rules]

Good news, I really like your doc too FM.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Just finished Last Train Home. It was great. Like the Animated Musicals HoF, I will do a brief write up on all of the films when I finish.

That leaves me with Baraka, Enron, Dear Zachary, Kingdom of Dreams and Madness, Beauty Day and Leni Riefenstahl (6)left.

[Nope1172]

Haven't heard from Suspect or Nope in a while. Sane either but I know he always finishes.
I know I have been slow, schoolwork has made me much busier than expected. I plan to finish all of my watches this weekend (or the next).

[Thursday Next]

Tried to watch Kingdom of Dreams and Madness, but could not get subtitles to come up. The first five minutes looked great, although of course I couldn't understand a word of it. Will try again later on a different machine.

[Thursday Next]

The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.animationmagazine.net%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FKingdom-of-Dreams-and-Madness-post.jpg&f=1

Looks great, and some sections are really interesting - I liked the bit where they were trying to cast the main voice actor for The Wind Rises, for example, and Miyazaki's stories about his father and the war which were obviously an influence on the film - but I do agree with others that it lacked a bit of focus. Overall I just found this film to be really sad. It felt at times like it was documenting the end of an era, there was a lot of disillusionment and lack of togetherness amongst the Ghibli employees.

[SilentVamp]

Overall I just found this film to be really sad. It felt at times like it was documenting the end of an era, there was a lot of disillusionment and lack of togetherness amongst the Ghibli employees.
You are not alone on this. I agree with you on all of this. That is how I felt/thought, too.

[Thursday Next]

West of Memphis

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCOUae8qzch13ZUUZJXPZTKNeMk7O7eFw94csBdEPGfMDwWprX

I nearly didn’t watch this at all. I even more nearly turned it off in the first half hour. It’s not an easy film to watch, there is some horrific detail.

This is an assured, well made film. Compelling throughout, despite its length, well shot, well edited, visually interesting and not just a series of talking heads.

However, I had three problems with it:

First, it seems to assume a familiarity with the case, and with the earlier film Paradise Lost. I understand not wanting to rehash the earlier film, but it left me feeling a bit out of the loop when they referred to it briefly and then jumped straight up to date.

Second, it comes from a position of assuming the innocence of the three people who were convicted of the murder. Now, I’m not saying they’re not innocent, the film presents a lot of compelling evidence in their defence. But it starts from a position of assuming that they’re innocent, showing all their famous supporters and their opinions, without really saying why they started supporting them, before presenting this evidence. It’s half way through the running time before we get to the stuff about the turtles which completely destroys the satanic abuse theory. It’s certainly not an unbiased film and I wasn’t completely sold on the way it was constructed.

Finally, I didn’t like that they showed images of the dead children. I can’t argue that it wasn’t at all necessary - especially for the comparison of the wounds on their skin with the wounds made by a turtle. I also think it was necessary to keep the children at the fore of this film, not only to focus on the miscarriage of justice. But that said I think they showed too much, too often.

There’s certainly some pretty damning evidence against Terry Hobbs but why did none of this ever come out at the time? The film builds up a convincing portrait of Hobbs as a monster - but the prosecution built up a convincing portrait of the WM3 as monsters in 1993. Some people were convinced it was Byers for a while. If this film teaches anything, surely it is not to jump to any conclusions. Hobbs beat his wife and kids and probably molested them. Damien Echols supposedly went around killing dogs. Somebody killed those three boys.

After watching this film it’s clear there were massive holes in the original prosecution case. It’s astonishing to me that judges and prosecutors are involved in politics, running for Senator etc. That seems to be opposed to the aim of justice, that they are considering what is good for them politically, not merely serving justice. The refusal of the state of Arkansas to allow appeals was astonishing also.

The main thing I took from this is not just that this was a miscarriage of justice, but the total impossibility of justice being done when people don’t tell the truth. So many people weren't and still aren’t telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth (including some of the people involved in the original prosecution).

[Nope1172]

Triumph of the Will
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I have very mixed feelings about this film. Not because of its subject matter or propaganda, jus because I don't really know what to think about it. However I have to give credit where credit is due, and Leni Riefenstahl did a fantastic job editing and filming this documentary. My main problem with the film however was the repetitiveness. The speeches and rallies seemed to go on and on, and I couldn't tell one from the other. Even with that said I thought that this was a very well made documentary, especially for the 1930s. To be honest, there isn't really much els to say about this film.
3+

[Nope1172]

American Movie
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By far the thing I liked most about this Doc was the characters. My main issue with documentaries like Triumph of the Will or Kingdom of Dreams and Madness is that there was no story to follow. Mark Borchardt and Mike Schank were incredibly entertaining throughout the film, and were the best part of the movie. The most entertaining moments were when the two of them would just have conversations with each other, they both played off of each other incredibly, and I would absolutely watch a tv show about these two. I was really rooting for these two and wanted them to win in the end. In some way this film reminded me of Ed Wood, one of my favorite movies. They both were about people who were so dedicated to film that they practically threw away their lives to pursue it even though they faced great opposition. American Movie was incredibly entertaining and heartwarming from start to finish, and one of my favorite films of the HOF.
4+

[Nope1172]

The Imposter

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This is probably one of if not the most interesting documentaries I have ever seen. The true story behind this is incredible, and one of the most interesting stories of all time. The editing was fantastic, and I loved the inclusion of re-enacted scenes. Besides my nom, Dear Zachary, this is just about the only documentary that ever had me on the edge of my seat. The ending of this film was incredible, and I never knew who was lying or telling the truth. That's probably what I liked most about the film, it gave all of the points of view, true or not. This is the only documentary I've seen with an ambiguous ending, and by then it felt like a narrative film instead of a doc. The film turned from a thriller into a crime mystery and those are two of my favorite genres. Fantastic nomination, my favorite so far beside my own pick.
4.5

[Friendly Mushroom!]

I will be watching Beauty Day in a few days.

Has anyone here used this link (http://putlocker.is/watch-beauty-day-online-free-putlocker.html) to view it? I don't want to view now it in case if it has a virus. Thanks :)

[Camo]

Beauty Day is all i have left. Think i'll watch it tomorrow then send in my list, i will write something up for the last four when i have abit more time.

[cricket]

I will be watching Beauty Day in a few days.

Has anyone here used this link (http://putlocker.is/watch-beauty-day-online-free-putlocker.html) to view it? I don't want to view now it in case if it has a virus. Thanks :)

That's fine, I use that site a lot, it's just slow to open. You have to hit cancel a couple times and close a couple pop ups.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

I will be watching Beauty Day in a few days.

Has anyone here used this link (http://putlocker.is/watch-beauty-day-online-free-putlocker.html) to view it? I don't want to view now it in case if it has a virus. Thanks :)

That's fine, I use that site a lot, it's just slow to open. You have to hit cancel a couple times and close a couple pop ups.

K thanks. Figured better safe than sorry. :up:

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Also, i thought i was able to obtain the wonderful horrible life of leni riefenstahl but for somereason, i cant now. Is there a place where i can view it?

[cricket]

Also, i thought i was able to obtain the wonderful horrible life of leni riefenstahl but for somereason, i cant now. Is there a place where i can view it?

I got it by Netflix dvd

[seanc]

Also, i thought i was able to obtain the wonderful horrible life of leni riefenstahl but for somereason, i cant now. Is there a place where i can view it?

I got the DVD as well. PM Citizen though. I think he had a link.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

K ill pm him later today.

[honeykid]

Kill pm? Woah! Sounds deadly, FM. :D

[Swan]

Kill pm? Woah! Sounds deadly, FM. :D

It's really upsetting seeing a joke that is so unfunny you cringe, and yet it's totally a joke you'd make.

[honeykid]

Welcome to my life. :D

[Citizen Rules]

I sent someone in this Doc Hof an online link to watch The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl but I can't remember who it was? Friendly Mushroom can't find this doc and I can't find my link. So please, whoever I sent the link to, look in your inbox for my message and then copy the link and send it to Friendly Mushroom.

[Citizen Rules]

Speaking of my nom Leni Riefenstahl has anybody else not been able to find it?

[Thursday Next]

You sent it to me, CR, I have forwarded it.

I'm not sure I ever got round to talking about the film on here. It was better than I expected it to be, I'd thought it might be just talking heads and archive footage but it was a bit more visually interesting than that which is good, especially considering the subject.

I found the bits about her work after the war the most interesting, especially the underwater photography.

I don't think Riefenstahl is a particularly trustworthy subject, I'm not sure everything she says is true, much of it is to excuse herself from accusations levelled her way. She didn't come across as a fascist, in my opinion, to comment on something some people raised earlier in the thread, she seemed more of an opportunist.

Overall I thought it was too long really. Or at least longer than my interest in Leni Riefenstahl. If you are more interested in her it might not seem too long.

I only have Beauty Day left to watch.

[Nope1172]

Beauty Day
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The reason I enjoyed this film more than other documentaries on this list is because there was a story. I thought the character of Ralph Zavadil was very entertaining and likable. He was the main reason that I really enjoyed this documentary. Something I really like about the film is that they didn't spend too much time on the Cap'n Video 20th Anniversary movie. Instead they let people who aren't aware know who Cap'n Video was and learn about his legacy. Because of this people like me got to learn and care about Ralph before he started his new project. This opened up the film to people who have no idea who Cap'n Video is. I thought that this film was fun, entertaining, and a good watch.
3.5

[Guaporense]

Sent in my list. Great HoF got many good documentaries to nominate for the countdown.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Looking forward to the results.

[seanc]

Six lists, six to go. Just nine more days. Everyone on track?

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Worst case scenario I might need an extra day or two to send in my list.

Also, Leni and Beauty Day are my last two.

[Nope1172]

I have 4 movies left, but plenty of time to watch them. Planning on watching Baraka tonight

[Camo]

Still just Beauty Day for me. Planning on watching it tomorrow morning.

[Thursday Next]

I'll watch Beauty Day after Christmas and send in a list.

[neiba]

I've been a bit disconnected from the world lately, sorry.

I have 2 left to watch that I think I'll be able to do during the next few days. Here are my thoughts on the 2 I watched today:

Kingdom of Dreams and Madness

This was a very interesting watch. I'm not exactly a big fan of anime but I always admired Takahata and Miyazaki works so it was great to see the story behind it.
I wished there was more of Takahata on this, because he seemed a fascinating man to me. As for Myazaki, I absolutely loved him but somehow I am not surprised. I think his work tells a lot about how he is as a person so I felt that I knew him already.
As for the documentary, it is very well shot with some good cinematography though I think it could have 30 minutes less.

rating_3

Enron: The Smartest Guys on the Room

My opinion is pretty much the same as most people here. Really well done movie but the subject didn't interest me at all. I felt my brain shuting down everytime it became too technical, but I can see why was this nominated and why people love it. It's one of those films that should be shown in economy classes!!!

rating_3 -

[seanc]

Just a few more days till the winner will be revealed. Mushroom bought you a couple extra days. Speak now or when I get Mushroom's list we will wrap it up.

[neiba]

When's the deadline?