View Full Version : Documentary HOF
http://i.imgur.com/UsN7wq5.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/aa/Americanmovie.jpg/220px-Americanmovie.jpg
Nominated by Swan
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/Baraka.jpg/220px-Baraka.jpg
Nominated by Neiba
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/08/Smartestguysintheroom.jpg/220px-Smartestguysintheroom.jpg
Nominated by Camo
Available Netflix
Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father
https://media1.nfb.ca/medias/nfb_tube/thumbs_large/2015/Dear_Zachary_A_Letter_to_a_Son_About_His_Father_LG_mqrpu2Z.jpg
I would like to put up the disclaimer DO NOT LOOK UP ANYTHING ABOUT THIS FILM. With it knowing absolutely nothing about it. All I will say about it is that it was the most emotional film experience of my entire life.
Nominated by Nope1172
Available Hulu
Food Inc. (Robert Kenner, 2008)
https://3rdeyevisionblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/1950vs2008-chiken.png
Nominated by Friendly Mushroom
Available Netflix
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/57/Exit-through-the-gift-shop.jpg
Nominated by Thursday Next
Available Netflix
The Imposter
http://www.listener.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/The-Imposter.jpg?0d1836
Since my original choice was already picked, I had to go through a few backups and came across this film, The Imposter. Mixing old documentary footage with re-enacted scenes, The Imposter is a twisted tale of lies and deceit. One that will have you scratching your head and wondering how the hell did any of this happen?
Nominated by Usual Suspect
Available Netflix
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/71/Last-train-home-lixin-fan.jpg/220px-Last-train-home-lixin-fan.jpg
Nominated by Sane
Available Hulu
Yume to kyôki no ohkoku http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3204392/
http://i.jeded.com/i/the-kingdom-of-dreams-and-madness-yume-to-kyki-no-ohkoku.28158.jpg
Nominated by Guaporense
Available Netflix
Triumph of the Will, recommended by Nostromo (1935, Riefenstahl)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1a/Triumph_des_Willens_poster.jpg
Nominated by Cricket
Available YouTube
http://i.imgur.com/MvQ8JjB.jpg
Nominated by Seanc
Available ITunes, Vudu, Amazon $3
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Wonder%2C_horr_life_leni_cover.jpg/220px-Wonder%2C_horr_life_leni_cover.jpg
Nominated by Citizen Rules
Available YouTube
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d5/West_of_Memphis_poster.jpg/215px-West_of_Memphis_poster.jpg
Nominated by SilentVamp
Available on I-Tunes, Vudu, and Amazon for $3
Deadline for lists is Dec. 30
So I can't nominate The Office? Damn!
So I can't nominate The Office? Damn!
Exception granted. And we have a winner. See you next time folks. ;)
Friendly Mushroom!
09-12-15, 06:48 PM
I should join this. I'll think about it.
cricket
09-12-15, 07:21 PM
I'm not going to join but I'll try to watch all the movies and participate so I can send a list for the countdown.
Nope1172
09-13-15, 12:22 PM
Nom Sent
Friendly Mushroom!
09-13-15, 12:34 PM
I think I will join this. Will send nom in just a sec; though it will be a while till I start watching the films. I checked several 8th HoF films out from the library already.
Only six of us so far. Would love to have at least ten.
Thursday Next
09-13-15, 04:49 PM
I'm in. I've already committed to the 8th general hof, but I'll be watching as many documentaries as possible for the countdown anyway, so I might as well watch the ones nominated here.
TheUsualSuspect
09-13-15, 05:10 PM
I'll join since I've missed a few.
We have eight. Can I get two more. Some good stuff nominated if you planning on doing a list for the countdown.
Citizen Rules
09-14-15, 01:29 PM
I'll lend a helping hand, I'm in:)
So Sane makes 10, is that what we're going for? Sorry for the impatience i just really want to get this started.
SilentVamp
09-14-15, 11:49 PM
Two questions for you.
1. If you like a doc series you are more than welcome to nominate a segment.
So, you are saying that something from TV could be considered for this?
Not that I would necessarily do that this time around (as I know people are interested in participating in the documentary countdown and would prefer feature film documentaries), but if there should ever be another one of these, I have an idea of what I would choose the second time around. :)
2. New members are more than welcome
I would, for sure, be able to join after the 16th then?
I can't really say that I could commit to this right now because I have to see what the nominations are. Once I know that, I would know whether or not I would be able to obtain all of the documentaries that are nominated (money really is too tight right now to spend anything extra on any of it, unfortunately). But if all of the films would be doable, then I would probably join if I am allowed to. :)
cricket
09-14-15, 11:59 PM
I'll join if you guys want me to, but I've only seen a small number of docs, and I'd like to maximize what I see before the countdown deadline comes. Because of this, I have 2 questions-
1. Could I nominate a documentary I haven't seen yet?
2. If I've already seen one of the nominations, do I have to watch it again? All the docs I have seen, I remember well.
I'll join if you guys want me to, but I've only seen a small number of docs, and I'd like to maximize what I see before the countdown deadline comes. Because of this, I have 2 questions-
1. Could I nominate a documentary I haven't seen yet?
2. If I've already seen one of the nominations, do I have to watch it again? All the docs I have seen, I remember well.
Just like the other hall of fames i think it's up to you if you rewatch. If Swans nom is what i think it is i more than likely wont rewatch as i watched it a few weeks ago.
Vamp i think it comes down to whether the other members are willing to take another one on once it has started. I personally don't have a problem with it.
@Vamp I will unveil the noms so far tomorrow so you can decide and yes even if you need a few extra days that will be fine.
@Cricket Come join Cricket. Nominate something you have been wanting to see. I was thinking about doing that actually. It's different but I don't see why there should be a rule against it.
I watched one of the nominations already tonight and it kicked my ass. You guys are in for a treat.
Oh and I only rewatch things when I feel like I need the fresh look. I think that is something a lot of people started doing so it started to feel mandatory. This is all honor system anyway.
Was it mine Sean? :D
Sorry buddy, but I am hoping for a second ass kicking. The nominations are fantastic so far.
SilentVamp
09-15-15, 12:30 AM
@Vamp I will unveil the noms so far tomorrow so you can decide and yes even if you need a few extra days that will be fine.
Thanks. :)
Nominate something you have been wanting to see. I was thinking about doing that actually. It's different but I don't see why there should be a rule against it.
My original choice was something that I really wanted to see. And I thought it was out by now. It was supposed to be released in 2015. When I checked it recently, there still was no release date except 2015. :rolleyes: After all this time, I thought it would've been on DVD by now and it hasn't even been in any theaters.
Anyway, the one that I am thinking about I wanted to see for quite some time. So, mine would be one that I have not seen. And since that is OK, then I think (if by some chance nobody else has nominated it ;)), that will be the one that I will go for.
Guaporense
09-15-15, 12:33 AM
Do mockumentaries count?
Do mockumentaries count?
No. That's for the comedy HOF. :)
Guaporense
09-15-15, 12:37 AM
I'm in. I've already committed to the 8th general hof, but I'll be watching as many documentaries as possible for the countdown anyway, so I might as well watch the ones nominated here.
That's what I am thiking.
cricket
09-15-15, 12:48 AM
I'll send my nom in the morning.
Guaporense
09-15-15, 12:52 AM
No. That's for the comedy HOF. :)
Ok.
Guaporense, have you seen Sal da Terra? It's a documentary about Sebastião Salgado, directed by his son, Juliano, and Wim Wenders! :) I highly recommend it!
cricket
09-15-15, 10:49 AM
Nomination sent
Alright everyone, nominations are up in the first post. I will still give us till tomorrow night for anyone else who wants to join. Very interesting group of films. I have seen a few and those are great and there are a couple more I am interested in. Tomorrow I will update where you can find them as well.
Friendly Mushroom!
09-15-15, 10:24 PM
Fitting Triunph of the Will is nominated
1. Look at my avatar
2. That was sarcasm. I'm not gonna like that film.
The noms look great. Especially the Miyazaki one!
Citizen Rules
09-15-15, 10:27 PM
I'm glad to see Triumph of the Will here too. I had considered it myself many weeks ago but I thought it was in the European Horror Hof.
If I had known it was being nominated I would have nominated this
The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Horrible_Life_of_Leni_Riefenstahl)
Why? to fully appreciate the cinematic genius that is Leni Riefenstahl you REALLY need to know about her life and the very horrible outcome her life took because she made Triumph of the Will, which ruined her.
Seeing how Sean has given a couple more days for people to join (which is cool)
I beg! someone else to join and nominate The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl.
I'm glad to see it here too. But if I had known it was being nominated we really need to see first this:
The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Horrible_Life_of_Leni_Riefenstahl)
to appreciate this woman's genius and the very horrible outcome her life took because she made Triumph of the Will.
Seeing how Sean has given a couple more days for people to join (which is cool) I really really wish someone would nominate The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl.
I will give an extra week if people feel they want to check it out. I more than likely will.
Dear Zachary
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/DearZacharyTheatricalPoster.jpg/215px-DearZacharyTheatricalPoster.jpg
This is the movie that devastated me last night. It had me crying within the first fifteen minutes and about four more times throughout. It is an amazing love letter from this poor victim's best friend. Where this film goes will have you speechless. Like Nope said, try not to know anything going in. I really don't know what else to say. If anyone would have a complaint about this film it could be that it is very one sided. However, after you know where the story goes I don't think that will be an issue for anyone. A great film told very lovingly that will be sure to move you.
Very interesting bunch of docs.
There is really no need for me to rewatch Enron, Dear Zachary, American Movie or Exit Through The Gift Shop as they are all fresh in my head so i'll get a writeup for them soon. The only other one i've seen is The Impostor but i don't really remember it.
Dear Zachary
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/DearZacharyTheatricalPoster.jpg/215px-DearZacharyTheatricalPoster.jpg
This is the movie that devastated me last night. It had me crying within the first fifteen minutes and about four more times throughout. It is an amazing love letter from this poor victim's best friend. Where this film goes will have you speechless. Like Nope said, try not to know anything going in. I really don't know what else to say. If anyone would have a complaint about this film it could be that it is very one sided. However, after you know where the story goes I don't think that will be an issue for anyone. A great film told very lovingly that will be sure to move you.
That film crippled me man :(. There's not much you can actually say without ruining it. I will say that it was wonderfully edited all of the fast paced scenes, especially the one near the end with the grandparents i think you'll know which one i mean were extremely powerful.
That film crippled me man :(. There's not much you can actually say without ruining it. I will say that it was wonderfully edited all of the fast paced scenes, especially the one near the end with the grandparents i think you'll know which one i mean were extremely powerful.
The editing is amazing. I know exactly what scene you mean. Everytime he chooses to do the speed up overlapping dialogue it is extremely effective. Really packs a punch.
Harry Lime
09-15-15, 11:02 PM
I fully support this.
cricket
09-15-15, 11:02 PM
I haven't seen any of them and I'm looking forward to all of them.
Harry Lime
09-15-15, 11:08 PM
How do these HOFs work again?
Here's a few lines i wrote on American Movie after watching it two weeks ago.
American Movie
This was pretty great. I found it hilarious, awkward, inspiring and even pretty sad at points. Marks passion really came through in a big way and it was both inspiring and exhausting to watch his dedication to finally finishing this project. Watching the whole process was very interesting but more than anything I just liked spending time with these loveable weirdos. Uncle Bill is the man, his cameo was clearly the best part of the movie , and it was sweet what you find out at the end.
Guaporense
09-15-15, 11:11 PM
Sent in my nomination.
I thought yours was the Ghibli one no?
Guaporense
09-15-15, 11:13 PM
Guaporense, have you seen Sal da Terra? It's a documentary about Sebastião Salgado, directed by his son, Juliano, and Wim Wenders! :) I highly recommend it!
Never heard of it. Though I am in general ignorant about the film output of my own country. :D
Guaporense
09-15-15, 11:15 PM
I will have to work a lot for this HOF. Haven't watched any, including my own. ��
How do these HOFs work again?
We watch everything nominated and then send in an ordered list. Most points wins. We give a week a film. You want in?
Think i'll start with Food Inc tomorrow since it's on Netflix.
Think i'll start with Food Inc tomorrow since it's on Netflix.
I'm going to try to do yours tomorrow and hopefully American Movie will be here. If not I will do Sane or Guaps. I have seen Foid Inc so I will probably save it. Guaps is on Netflix as well Camo.
I'm going to try to do yours tomorrow and hopefully American Movie will be here. If not I will do Sane or Guaps. I have seen Foid Inc so I will probably save it. Guaps is on Netflix as well Camo.
American Netflix only i think. Well i'll check anyway.
Friendly Mushroom!
09-15-15, 11:23 PM
So when is the due date?
American Netflix only i think. Well i'll check anyway.
My bad, I always forget that.
So when is the due date?
I'll set it this week. See if anyone else joins. I'm hoping at lesst Vamp will.
Citizen would really like to change his nomination. Since tomorrow was the deadline I don't find it to be an issue. I am going to take down his nom for the time being and if no one objects before tomorrow night I will add his new nomination.
Go for it i doubt anyone will mind. Sounds like it will be a good companion piece with Triump of the Will.
Citizen Rules
09-15-15, 11:51 PM
I need to start watching some of these:)
SilentVamp
09-16-15, 02:00 AM
I should've posted something like 30 minutes ago but I keep getting distracted by other things. :rolleyes:
I'll set it this week. See if anyone else joins. I'm hoping at lesst Vamp will.
:) I can obtain all the docs but yours. That is the only one.
Also, I swear people here have the uncanniest ability to nominate the films that I plan to nominate! :yup: Nope's nomination. That was what I would've nominated. I kind of had a feeling last night that I would see it here. So there were about 4 others that I considered. But since I can't get that one, I don't know now about joining because I can't watch all of them.
I'm glad someone nominated Exit Through the Gift Shop. That'd probably be my second favorite documentary ever.
Thursday Next
09-16-15, 06:27 AM
I have only seen my own nomination, Exit Through the Gift Shop, and I only watched that for the first time last week. Quite a few of the others were on my doc watchlist already, but also a couple of others I haven't heard of before.
Enron is on Netflix UK and i assume US too.
Only saw my own nomination! :) this going to be fun!
Vamp, it is on I-tunes for $3. If that is a problem for you guys I can change my nom. It was free on Hulu, but I guess it's not there anymore.
Nope1172
09-16-15, 07:21 PM
Seen Food Inc., Exit Through the Gift Shop, and my own nom. Food Inc. was ok, I really enjoyed ETTGS
Added Citizen Rules nomination to the first post along with where most of these are available. If you have a better idea of where yours is available let me know and I will add it. If you like your movie through more nefarious means make a post and I am sure people will be happy to PM you. I set the deadline at Dec.30 which gives us plenty of time even if Destiny and Vamp decide to join later today. Happy watching everyone.
Friendly Mushroom!
09-16-15, 09:00 PM
Dec 30th Gotcha!
I'm planning on watching The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness first because Miyazaki. After that I'm gonna watch The Imposer, Exit Trough the Gift Shop or Triumph of the Will. What order should I watch those three films in?
Citizen Rules
09-16-15, 09:02 PM
Thanks Sean!
Dec 30th Gotcha!
I'm planning on watching The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness first because Miyazaki. After that I'm gonna watch The Imposer, Exit Trough the Gift Shop or Triumph of the Will. What order should I watch those three films in?
Haven't seen Triumph yet but the other two would make a cool double feature. Order doesn't matter. Citizen thinks it is a good idea to watch his nom before Triumph.
Citizen Rules
09-16-15, 09:18 PM
http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=22670&stc=1&d=1442454351
The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl
The reason I was so hot on having this as a nomination is that you guys will get so much more out of the infamous Triumph of the Will if you know the back story first of it's equally infamous director, Leni Riefenstahl and her dark opus, Triumph of the Will.
Leni Riefenstahl is arguably one of the greatest woman directors.
"Riefenstahl won several awards, not only in Germany but also in the United States, France, Sweden, and other countries for Triumph of the Will."
But thanks to her association with Hitler and Triumph of the Will she became a very hated woman and her career was ruined. Leni was a genius at cinematography, directing and editing some compare her to Orson Welles. Yet today even cinephiles know very little about her or her work, she made only a few films. Her work is worth exploring.
The Nazis were pure evil, but Triumph of the Will is an important film for its break through in cinematic and editing techniques and for it's historical documentation of the second political congress at Nuremberg by the Nazis.
Many films have been made showing the horrors of the Holocaust and yet have you ever asked yourself just how did the Nazi party convince a nation to go along with their evil plans? If you were a German citizen in the early 1930s would you have went along with them or raised a voice in protest?
When we forget the lessons of the past we're doomed to make them again.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/08/Smartestguysintheroom.jpg/220px-Smartestguysintheroom.jpg
This was my first Gibney. I didn't dislike this film but I did find it a little like a 60 Minutes segment with some flair. That is not necessarily a bad thing but it did make it hard for me to make any kind of real connection to the material. I also found this one sided in a mostly bad way. No one is denying that what these men did was one of the worst crimes ever committed by a corporation. I do think some people would have something to say about whether that was all because of deregulation and Bush, which is really the only thing the film offers with very little to back that up.
I did find it compelling to kind of be refreshed on exactly how terrible this whole thing was. I especially was intrigued by the California electricity scam which was very vague in my memory. Overall a fine experience but not the great one I was hoping for.
Friendly Mushroom!
09-16-15, 10:05 PM
Haven't seen Triumph yet but the other two would make a cool double feature. Order doesn't matter. Citizen thinks it is a good idea to watch his nom before Triumph.
I figured but I wanted someone to pick which one I should watch first, as sometimes people here do that.
Thanks Sean. :)
gbgoodies
09-16-15, 10:08 PM
I figured but I wanted someone to pick which one I should watch first, as sometimes people here do that.
Thanks Sean. :)
From what I've seen in the song tournament, the order doesn't seem to be very important to
you. :lol:
Friendly Mushroom!
09-16-15, 10:12 PM
Yeah i have been pretty bad on this forum lately at reliability.
I figured but I wanted someone to pick which one I should watch first, as sometimes people here do that.
Thanks Sean. :)
Watch The Impostor and then Exit Through The Gift Shop. I will tell you why I picked that order after you watch. Enjoy.
cricket
09-16-15, 10:30 PM
I don't know anything about any of these. Is that all I need to know-watch The Imposter before Gift Shop?
I don't know anything about any of these. Is that all I need to know-watch The Imposter before Gift Shop?
He just wanted a recommendation for viewings. You don't have to watch in any sort of order. Mushroom was just going to watch them both and asked.
Citizen's nomination is showing up as a broken image for me.
Citizen Rules
09-16-15, 10:39 PM
Thanks Swan for mentioning the bad link:) It's bad for me too. I will find another link and PM Sean.
cricket
09-16-15, 10:43 PM
Are these the correct full titles for all the nominations?
Documentary Hall of Fame
American Movie
Baraka
Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room
Dear Zachory: A Letter to a Son About His Father
Food Inc.
Exit Through the Gift Shop
The Imposter
Last Train Home
The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness
Triumph of the Will
Beauty Day
The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl*
Citizen I just hot linked the wikipedia poster. It was showing for me so I didn't know. Sorry guys.
Are these the correct full titles for all the nominations?
Documentary Hall of Fame
American Movie
Baraka
Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room
Dear Zachory: A Letter to a Son About His Father
Food Inc.
Exit Through the Gift Shop
The Imposter
Last Train Home
The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness
Triumph of the Will
Beauty Day
The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl*
You got it.
I'd recommend watching Triumph of the Will first. That way when you get to the part in The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl (a three-hour film) where she tries to defend herself about Nazi collaboration, it will make some sort of sense. I do highly recommend both films as well as Riefenstahl's beautiful, wildly-entertaining Olympia which shows the 1936 Berlin Olympics, which Germany won, even though you can't tell that from the film where black American Jesse Owens is shown to be the star of the Games.
Citizen Rules
09-16-15, 10:48 PM
Citizen I just hot linked the wikipedia poster. It was showing for me so I didn't know. Sorry guys.
I do see the that one (with the white background), thanks.
Citizen Rules
09-16-15, 10:52 PM
I'd recommend watching Triumph of the Will first. That way when you get to the part in The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl (a three-hour film) where she tries to defend herself about Nazi collaboration, it will make some sort of sense. Perhaps, but the question of Nazi collaboration is pretty self evident with either order that the two watch films are watched. My reason for suggesting The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl first was that she talks about her filming techniques, her editing, her use of numerous cameras and in that way when you see the scenes in Triumph you can appreciate how they were done.
She explains far more about her techniques in reference to Olympia. Also, TWHLoLR on YouTube has a Russian voice speaking over everything, including the English narration and the German dialogue.
Citizen Rules
09-16-15, 11:22 PM
That's good to know that the Utube link has a Russian voice over it, it wasn't originally produced that way. That would be distracting, unless someone is Russian.
I checked and it's at Netflix and if someone wants to know where it's at online, PM me.
Thursday Next
09-17-15, 12:23 PM
I got started and watched Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room. I thought this was a well made and mostly interesting documentary. The film makers seem very aware that this is something all about numbers, and could be a dry subject, and get round in by the way it is structured and the use of music, but not in an obvious or patronising way, it fits well. If I had any complaints it would be that it was made a year or so too early - with the major players still awaiting trial, it doesn't quite get to the end of the story. Also, the film does at times seem to cast aspersions on people and policies without fully explaining or evidencing their culpability which makes it feel a little biased.
3.5
cricket
09-17-15, 06:34 PM
Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room
http://fr.web.img6.acsta.net/r_640_600/b_1_d6d6d6/medias/nmedia/18/35/55/01/18405830.jpg
I just finished this one and I completely agree with Thursday Next. I thought that the event it started off with was a good move to capture interest right away. From there, it's informative and well structured, with just the right amount of added entertainment such as the music and strippers. It didn't blow me away but the story was told very well. I'm not used to rating documentaries but this feels right-
3.5
honeykid
09-17-15, 07:31 PM
I really like Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room and, from memory, I think I'd give it an extra half.
cricket
09-17-15, 07:42 PM
I really like Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room and, from memory, I think I'd give it an extra half.
I don't watch documentaries normally, so rating it was strange because I don't know what to compare it to. I agreed with Thursday's thoughts so it felt right, but I'd feel fine with an extra half. It was really good.
Nope1172
09-17-15, 10:51 PM
sean, is it ok that I skip a re-watch of Food Inc. and Exit Through Gift Shop? I would gladly watch them again, but I saw both of them somewhat recently.
sean, is it ok that I skip a re-watch of Food Inc. and Exit Through Gift Shop? I would gladly watch them again, but I saw both of them somewhat recently.
Yes. There are a couple I may skip as well.
Been a bit busy i'll start with one later today.
Glad to see Enron is goind down pretty well even though noone has really loved it like me. I'll write something up later explaining why i like it so much.
cricket
09-18-15, 01:48 PM
Triumph of the Will
I'm not much of a history buff, but this is a pretty fascinating film. It's hard not to be glued to the screen while seeing Hitler and his cohorts in action.
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w780/9UEPYUny8WbfXmxK9zJJ37bqYKS.jpg
One of the most powerful parts of the movie for me was in the beginning, when it showed giddy children ogling Adolph like he was a rock star. That's pretty scary. Then later on you get to see what a Hitler youth rally actually looks like, and you can at least somewhat understand how these young people got brainwashed. I did think it got a little monotonous after a while, but it stayed interesting. I didn't love it, but it's an impotent piece of history, and I'm glad I watched it. Thanks for the recommendation, Nostromo.
3.5-
Okay guys so what is the final verdict on what should be watched first out of Citizens nom and Triumph of the Will? I found both Marks and Citizens arguments compelling and can't decide. I know it doesn't matter too much but i tend to get hung up on this sort of thing. It would be nice to have a tiebreaker who has seen both possibly Christine or Holden?
Anyway i've decided to start with Guaps nomination after rewatching Nausicaa today i'm in the mood for it.
Citizen Rules
09-18-15, 04:01 PM
Camo, it's up to you of course. But what ever order you watch them, please post and let us know if the order mattered to you or not. That way others can get some imput on that.
Guaporense
09-18-15, 10:56 PM
Food Inc. Is just typical luddite nonsense. Also suffers from, being very innacurate and American centric.
cricket
09-18-15, 10:59 PM
I had to look up luddite, I feel that way sometimes.
Guaporense
09-18-15, 11:05 PM
But the documentary s not that bad is that I don't like that biased Michael More sensationalism.
Kingdom Of Dreams And Madness: I tend to like stuff that is very inside baseball and this fits. Not only that but it is a pretty intimate look at one of the most popular directors of all time. Miyazaki is a very interesting character. A quite thoughtful and introspective man. I really enjoyed hearing his musings. If I have a complaint it is that we didn't see more of Takahata (did we even see him speak?). I think that and a little more insight into his and Miyazaki's relationship would have made for a more interesting documentary. Still pretty darn interesting watch. Glad it was nominated.
Just watched a ridiculous yet highly entertaining doc my friend has been pestering me to watch, JFK 2:The Bush Connection :D. It made me think of some of the problems people had with Enron, and i wonder if it is difficult for some to seperate the entertainment with the facts?
Weird question i know, but personally i watch docs just like any other film, i don't look to be educated by them (not saying anyone else does or suggesting they are watching them wrong, i'm just explaining why i personally find enjoyment in them) but think of them as just another form of entertainment. For instance i think it is well established on this site that i am very skeptic of most paranormal occurrences, annoyed by them in some cases even, yet i can find documentaries about stuff like Amityville, exorcisms, whatever very enjoyable despite me disagreeing with most presented in them.
This has nothing to do with my nom, i just thought about it after finding out Bush Sr personally had JFK assassinated :D, and wondered what everyone elses thoughts on it were.
It depends on the doc for me. To simplify, I think if it is a story with a political lean then I want it to be fair. That may be just because I see so many people getting sucked into political ideology in our culture though. I don't think people are taking the time to see both sides of the spectrum and we have ended up with a good vs evil political culture which drives me insane. So people like Michael Moore just become propoganda documentarians and it drives me crazy.
With stuff like Exit Through The Gift Shop and The Impostor that don't seem to have an agenda I am okay with it taking a more entertaining approach.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, actually i do feel the same way in heavily biased stuff especially like Moore, even if you agree with his views it feels like you are being fed propaganda.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a8/Food_inc.jpg/220px-Food_inc.jpg
Thought I had seen this one but I had not. It is very well done and makes a compelling argument. The problem for me is that it makes the argument that has been being made to death over the past decade. There is nothing wrong with that, it just means there is nothing new here for me. The segment I enjoyed most surrounded the seed cleansing. I had not heard anything about that before so I definitely found it interesting.
That's the problem I had with it too, Sean. If you have never seen or heard any arguments about that stuff, it might be good - but when I saw it, I had heard most of the arguments it presents.
Ðèstîñy
09-19-15, 11:00 PM
Sean said I could still join. If you guys are OK with that, I would like to nominate Walking with Dinosaurs (http://documentarystorm.com/walking-with-dinosaurs/)
There are seven episodes. All episodes are around 20 - 30 minutes each. They are free to view, on both the first site I linked, as well as YouTube.
Walking With Dinosaurs Episode 1: New Blood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5angPxwS8Yc
Walking With Dinosaurs Episode 2: Time of the Titans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Faf8zPRno
Walking with Dinosaurs Episode 3: Cruel Sea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1Rfs05SkPk
Walking With Dinosaurs Episode 4: Giant of the Skies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyd84CfcbVI
Walking With Dinosaurs Episode 5: Spirits of the Ice Forest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCacqIaK8Ug
Walking With Dinosaurs Episode 6: Death of a Dynasty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f37_FdT2ddM
Walking With Dinosaurs Episode 7: The Ballad of Big Al
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDO4S1fhqE
I'm not too sure about that seventh episode. I think it's a special. Something separate. I will need to dig my VHS set out. Sorry!
cricket
09-19-15, 11:09 PM
I actually watched Walking with Dinosaurs the first time it was on TV, and it was pretty good. Are TV miniseries good for the countdown also?
Ðèstîñy
09-19-15, 11:12 PM
Oh shoot, I hope so. I just assumed it was ok, because the total time isn't so bad.
Vamp sent me a nomination too. I will add them when I am on my computer. Going to keep the deadline the same, I think 3 1/2 months is enough. If it turns out not to be I will extend. Welcome aboard.
Ðèstîñy
09-19-15, 11:33 PM
Now that I think about it, I didn't give it much thought, because our copy is VHS, so I just thought of it as a movie.
Citizen Rules
09-19-15, 11:48 PM
I'm happy to have Vamp and Destiny join:).
I've seen Walking with Dinosaurs before but I'm happy to watch it again! Because dinosaurs rule.
BTW they were not extincted (is that an actually word) by an asteroid, that's a silly myth the was disproved in an excellent documentary and if I could remember what it was called I'd tell you guys.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1a/Triumph_des_Willens_poster.jpg/220px-Triumph_des_Willens_poster.jpg
Good God this was the sobering watch of my life. I have no idea how to rate or rank this but I will figure it out when the time comes. Despite the rock in my stomach the entire hour and a half I am glad I was forced to watch it. It feels like it should be being shown in history classes. I can't think of a better reminder of what monsters we can become if left unchecked.
What did you think of the way she filmed Hitler's arrival from the clouds at the beginning? It's almost as if God is coming down from heaven to be with them (cricket called it like a rock star). Another scary thing is how hypnotic and strong Hitler is as a speaker. Combined with all the pomp and circumstance, it's actually quite easy to understand the mass hysteria created at the rally.
Sorry guys i'm not sitting through a 3 and a half hour tv show, so i'm dropping out. If i knew tv shows were allowed i wouldn't have joined which is my own fault since i never bothered to ask. Just pull my nom, sorry to those who have already watched it i hope you at least got some enjoyment from it :)
Ðèstîñy
09-20-15, 05:37 AM
Now that I think about it, I didn't give it much thought, because our copy is VHS, so I just thought of it as a movie.
Sorry guys i'm not sitting through a 3 and a half hour tv show, so i'm dropping out. If i knew tv shows were allowed i wouldn't have joined which is my own fault since i never bothered to ask. Just pull my nom, sorry to those who have already watched it i hope you at least got some enjoyment from it :)
As I said, I didn't give it much thought, because our copy is VHS. It's actually a boxed set, of just two videos. I just didn't think past that.
Maybe if the thread title had said, "Live Action" . . . Oops, I mean "Movies Only" . . . It's all in the title. :p
Sorry, I could not resist. I'm just messin', too, so no one get your panties all twisted up.
Now, like I asked, does anyone mind? I would have preferred that you said you were fine with me joining. That you just didn't like my nomination. I am way too flexible, like I've said before, for this to bother me. Maybe if John Carpenter had directed it, I'd be annoyed. ;) Anyway, I will simply choose something else. There is absolutely no reason for you to bail, and do you really think I want to take the blame for your leaving!?! That's what it would be like, son, and I'm not about to go there. Not over something as simple as choosing another title. So, either get your ass back in here, or I'm out. I'll go pick something else. No hard feelings here, at all. ;)
cricket
09-20-15, 10:06 AM
Food Inc.
http://www.safefoodinc.org/images/stories/pigs%20feeding.jpg
I try not to watch these types of things, because while I now eat fairly healthy, I like to eat guilt and concern free. I thought this movie was pretty informative, presenting the viewer a mixture of known and unknown facts, and it's all very relevant to each and every one of us. One of the most interesting tidbits for me was the talk of the veggie libel laws. It's all presented very well. If I have any criticism, the movie got a little bland after a while. It would've been nice if they could've somehow spiced it up like they did with the Enron documentary. All in all, it was very solid.
3+
Just as an aside, the movie at one point brings us to Brattleboro Vt. I used to make deliveries there, and up until 2007, public nudity was perfectly legal there.:)
Sorry guys i'm not sitting through a 3 and a half hour tv show, so i'm dropping out. If i knew tv shows were allowed i wouldn't have joined which is my own fault since i never bothered to ask. Just pull my nom, sorry to those who have already watched it i hope you at least got some enjoyment from it :)
Wikipedia says six 30 minute segments so that falls under our time limit. Seven does appear to be a different thing. I hope everyone stays but will understand if they don't.
What did you think of the way she filmed Hitler's arrival from the clouds at the beginning? It's almost as if God is coming down from heaven to be with them (cricket called it like a rock star). Another scary thing is how hypnotic and strong Hitler is as a speaker. Combined with all the pomp and circumstance, it's actually quite easy to understand the mass hysteria created at the rally.
I couldn't believe the somersaults this movie made my stomach do. You think you know so much about a person or period that showing actual footage of marching and speeches won't effect you but it is like watching a nightmare. Yeah, the scope and grandeur she give to his arrivals is chilling. I won't ever get this film out of my head.
Citizen Rules
09-20-15, 02:20 PM
Totally understand your reaction Sean.
I recommend for anyone watching Triumph of the Will to try and preceive it as the German people would have preceived it in 1935. At that time they didn't know all the horrors of WWII and the holocaust were yet to come. Viewing it in those terms you can get a feel for how the average German would have viewed Hitler and the Nazis in 1935...and in that way understand how the most murderous regime in history could rise to power, be admired by it's citizens and narrowly miss conquering the world.
Disclamier as I know someone will mention this: Joseph Stallion was also a murderous monster and more might have died in his gulags than in the holocaust.
Nope1172
09-20-15, 02:49 PM
I think I'm going to start with the The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness because I just watched Spirited away for the 8th HoF
I won't drop out over it because I've already seen Walking With Dinosaurs but we shouldn't be including TV shows - and even if they are to be included it should be one episode and not a whole series. They are completely different things - a three hour TV show broken into easily watchable 30 minute chunks is very different to a three hour movie.
A couple have slipped through in other HoFs but IMO they shouldn't have been allowed either - there is a difference though in that those shows were actually edited into a movie form and then released later.
Guaporense
09-20-15, 06:01 PM
I won't drop out over it because I've already seen Walking With Dinosaurs but we shouldn't be including TV shows - and even if they are to be included it should be one episode and not a whole series. They are completely different things - a three hour TV show broken into easily watchable 30 minute chunks is very different to a three hour movie.
It's subjective to think that a three hour long documentary released on TV is essentially different from a three hour long documentary released on theaters. It's a type of prejudice. Its like saying that you dislike movies made from a certain country.
A three hour long Tarkovsky movie is very different from a three hour long Kobayashi film which is very different from a three hour long Nolan film.
I don't actually see any fundamental difference between film released first on theaters and film released first on video or released first on TV. Good film is good film, it doesn't need to follow 3-act Hollywood plot structure as usual in mainstream Hollywood films (since that's what people mean when they said that PMMM didn't "feel" like a movie, but in that sense neither does Tarvkosky's stuff feels remotely like "a movie").
Usually the plots of continuous TV shows are more complex. But that's because they are longer. Miyazaki directed a 26 episode TV series Conan and it feels identical to his movies but it's plot is way longer and more complex, it was voted as Miyazaki masterpiece in a poll of animators in Japan in 2003.
Miyazaki himself said in the documentary I nominated here that Heidi is Takahata's masterpiece, his 1974 TV series. He also said that when they worked on Heidi they were thinking of making a "film".
Animators and animation fans don't suffer from this prejudice live action fans tend to have regarding stuff released for TV. The main reason is that animation is a younger medium that grew after TV became more popular than theaters so most directors in animation work on TV. Though it's also true that most good American live action of the past 15 years has been released on TV and not theaters.
What are you talking about, buddy? Apples and oranges? That's rhetorical. Don't answer with bananas and strawberries.
Ðèstîñy
09-20-15, 06:43 PM
After all that, and Camo hasn't even said anything. For the love of money!
TheUsualSuspect
09-20-15, 06:45 PM
Dear Zachary
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/DearZacharyTheatricalPoster.jpg/215px-DearZacharyTheatricalPoster.jpg
This was my original nomination, but was told it was already picked. It's a great choice and as others have said, one of the most emotionally draining films to watch. It was never meant to be released as a movie, it was always, as the title suggests, a love letter to a son. The twists and turns this film takes is gut wrenching. The fact that he was shooting this as everything was unfolding added to the experience and obviously crafted the direction of the story, which is why it takes so many turns.
It's watching documentaries like these that make me a little sad to be Canadian sometimes.
4.5
Question for those who have seen both: Should I see The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl before or after Triumph of the Will, or does it matter?
TheUsualSuspect
09-20-15, 06:54 PM
Triumph of the Will
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/layden/Posters/triumphofthewill.jpg?t=1302764867
Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will is a propaganda/documentary film about the Nazi rallies upon the arrival of Hitler.
Unlike a lot of other directors, Riefenstahl had final cut on the film; no interference from authorities. Along with the fact that she was one of the first female directors makes this an astonishing accomplishment. The opening sequences, which is arguably the most famous part of the film, "Arrival of the Saviour", depicts Hitler arriving from a plane. Many people who were not rich had never been in a plane at the time and this experience was new and exciting. This scene is meant to mystify the audience in glorious awe. Here is a man so powerful he flies above the clouds.
There are numerous shots of Hitler from lower angles, thus giving him the stature of power. These things are done in dozens of films today. The scene in which he stands outside a window is shot from below, showing that he is above everyone else and the people below continue to praise him.
Whether or not I agree with the content being shown, I admire how it is presented. The images are powerful, as most real life footage from war movies are.
3
Nostromo87
09-20-15, 07:02 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1a/Triumph_des_Willens_poster.jpg/220px-Triumph_des_Willens_poster.jpg
Good God this was the sobering watch of my life. I have no idea how to rate or rank this but I will figure it out when the time comes. Despite the rock in my stomach the entire hour and a half I am glad I was forced to watch it. It feels like it should be being shown in history classes. I can't think of a better reminder of what monsters we can become if left unchecked.
What did you think of the way she filmed Hitler's arrival from the clouds at the beginning? It's almost as if God is coming down from heaven to be with them (cricket called it like a rock star). Another scary thing is how hypnotic and strong Hitler is as a speaker. Combined with all the pomp and circumstance, it's actually quite easy to understand the mass hysteria created at the rally.
Triumph of the Will is also really a quite small glimpse into that period. Focusing only on a small one-week span of time in 1935. One other quick-note, der Führer was named Time's Man of the Year in 1938, so it wasn't just Germans who fell under his spell
Thanks alot to Destiny for offering to pull her nom but i'm just going to drop out. I'd feel awkward for the rest of the HOF knowing i got someone elses nom removed when i'm the only one who seems to have a problem with it. I'm still going to watch some of the docs including Guaps tonight and i'll post my thoughts here :)
Ðèstîñy
09-20-15, 07:28 PM
I'm looking into a document on hockey. Something Citz told me about. I'll turn in my new nom by tonight.
cricket
09-20-15, 07:31 PM
I'm looking into a document on hockey. Something Citz told me about. I'll turn in my new nom by tonight.
Jack Carlson: My Secret Life as a Crossdresser
Ðèstîñy
09-20-15, 07:34 PM
Jack Carlson: My Secret Life as a Crossdresser
That's funny!
Actually, its Jack Carlson: The long list of people I beat the ***** out of! :D
Added SilentVamps nomination to the first post. Another one I am looking forward to. I will wait to add Destiny's until she makes a final decision. I hope you are still with us Camo. We are going to make this comfortable for everyone.
Question for those who have seen both: Should I see The Wonderful Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl before or after Triumph of the Will, or does it matter?
HELLO.
HELLO.
Mark said see Triumph first. Citizen thinks it is more interesting to see her doc first so you can appreciate some of the camera shots in Triumph. Like Camo said they both made compelling arguments. I ultimately went with Triumph because of the run time and I didn't have three hours last night. Not the most constructive way to make a decision but it worked for me.:D
WHY CAN'T YOU PEOPLE AGREE ON ANYTHING! SHEESH!
Guaporense
09-20-15, 09:37 PM
Food Inc.
http://www.safefoodinc.org/images/stories/pigs%20feeding.jpg
I try not to watch these types of things, because while I now eat fairly healthy, I like to eat guilt and concern free. I thought this movie was pretty informative, presenting the viewer a mixture of known and unknown facts, and it's all very relevant to each and every one of us. One of the most interesting tidbits for me was the talk of the veggie libel laws. It's all presented very well. If I have any criticism, the movie got a little bland after a while. It would've been nice if they could've somehow spiced it up like they did with the Enron documentary. All in all, it was very solid.
3+
Just as an aside, the movie at one point brings us to Brattleboro Vt. I used to make deliveries there, and up until 2007, public nudity was perfectly legal there.:)
If you like documentaries about industries I have watched a ton of those on the history channel (when it was The History channel) focused on a especific business like a meat processing plant and stuff. And it's very objective (might be boring to some) unlike this one which distorts a lot of facts.
Friendly Mushroom!
09-20-15, 09:47 PM
If you like documentaries about industries I have watched a ton of those on the history channel (when it was The History channel) focused on a especific business like a meat processing plant and stuff. And it's very objective (might be boring to some) unlike this one which distorts a lot of facts.
I'm not doubting you on this but can you provide some links to back this up please?
Nope1172
09-20-15, 10:00 PM
So is Camo's nomination out?
So is Camo's nomination out?
I don't know let's give him a minute. Destiny is definitely changing her nom so I hope he stays.
Guaporense
09-20-15, 10:12 PM
It says that industrial scale food processing is not safe. When it's the fact that large scale food processing enabled food higiene to be more closely monitored. In the US today the number of people that die from contaminated food is certainly much smaller than in any periods in the past. And while they claim industrialized food is bad for your health life expectancy has continously increased over the past 200 years.
Also, industrialization of food processing and agriculture changed more in the 1850-1950 period anyway. When mechanization, the use of chemical fertilizers and assembly line style food processing became the norm. After 1950 the changes have been just a continuation of secular trends.
The Mexican migration was the worst part. Mexicans migrate in large scale to the USA because of the discrepancy of level of development as US wages are 3 times higher than Mexican wages for similar jobs. Similar situation occurs in Europe with the Turkish migration into Germany. Weird is the lack of mass Asian migration to Japan. But that's because Japan is a very closed, hard to reach and racist country. It's natural for tons of immigrants to show up in developed countries like US.
Also, the US is a net food importer. The country doesn't export that much grain as they claim and the US share of world food production is rather small at around 5-6% (using PPP dollars) not large enough for agricultural subsidies to affect agricultural prices in general for most crops (except corn).
I can go on and on. But that fear of modern technology/corporate organization is too simplistic (big corporations are EVIL) and extremely naive. It's like saying that cars (and trains, buses) are bad for your health because they make you fat while you drive them instead of exercising by walking. And it's the car companies fault that people are fat.
It's extremely biased and naive corporation phobia. I found it very entertaining but it's more a work of fiction than a documentary.
Friendly Mushroom!
09-20-15, 10:50 PM
Thanks Guap. I'm not good at debating so I won't try to refute anything. I haven't many documentaries and Food Inc was the best of the ones I already seen which is why I nominated it.
Ðèstîñy
09-21-15, 01:18 AM
So is Camo's nomination out?
I don't know let's give him a minute. Destiny is definitely changing her nom so I hope he stays.
He better stay in. I am changing my nomination, PERIOD! I will not appreciate him leaving. I said I was joining, and I named my nomination. I asked if you guys had any problems. You were suppose to tell me that you didn't like it. You weren't suppose to bail. Pretty much every Hall of Fame has had someone in it that didn't like certain nominations. A fight would normally break out. This time, when a nomination isn't liked, and there's no problem at all with switching it out, the person still leaves. Seriously? Can we move on, please?
If he doesn't rejoin, then count me out, as well. I'm getting too old for this *****!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/aa/Americanmovie.jpg/220px-Americanmovie.jpg
Maybe the nomination I was most looking forward to because I have heard Swan say how much he loves it. This is exactly the kind of documentary that I have been loving. It just puts the camera on its interesting subjects and lets you make of it what you will. It is immensely entertaining but also gives you the feeling that maybe it shouldn't be. It actually reminds me of my nomination in that way. I hope Swan enjoys my nomination as much as I enjoyed his. This is a movies that the subjects will certainly stick with me. So glad I finally watched it.
Oh! I'm glad you liked it, Sean!
By the way, anyone who likes American Movie, check out Monster Road, about stop-motion animator Bruce Bickford. It's my second favorite documentary, after American Movie, and I feel it's a bit similar to that movie in some ways, though it's unique in it's own right. Actually, my friend had me watch it years ago because he thought Bickford and I were very similar. So if you want to know what I'm like in real life, I'm a little bit like this guy I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q2MI23zS2w
Triumph des Willens a.k.a.Triumph of the Will (Leni Riefenstahl, 1935)
https://swordofelysium.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/triumph-of-the-will_4.jpg?w=595&h=445
An impressive piece of history!
The way Hitler, the swastica and the armies are shot is mesmerizing! Hitler had amazing manipulation powers, and one can see exactly how he became what he became!
Looking into the eyes of that kid from RAD (minute 37) should have been a sign of dangerous to the world. Watching the blind obedience of every high rank surrounding Hitler, especially Rudolf Hess, should have scared the Europe! It did not and this was only the beggining. The monster didn't talk much about racial superiority yet but the idea was slowly being introduced and slowly gaining form! After all, it was not racism, only Nationalism.
This should be showed to every highschool kid around the world!
3.5 +
So Destiny is out for sure. We can just forget the last 36 hours happened. I'm going to PM Camo, but consider Enron in.
She didn't say that in here. :)
gbgoodies
09-21-15, 02:45 PM
So Destiny is out for sure. We can just forget the last 36 hours happened. I'm going to PM Camo, but consider Enron in.
Did Ðèstîñy PM you that she's out, because that's not what she said. She said "If he doesn't rejoin", then she's out.
If he doesn't rejoin, then count me out, as well. I'm getting too old for this *****!
Thursday Next
09-21-15, 04:05 PM
When everybody's finished doing the hokey cokey, can we have a confirmed list of films that are in this hall of fame?
When everybody's finished doing the hokey cokey, can we have a confirmed list of films that are in this hall of fame?
First post is up to date.
Citizen Rules
09-21-15, 04:20 PM
I'm glad you posted that as I didn't know that West of Memphis, had been added. Sounds interesting:)
Guaporense
09-21-15, 05:08 PM
Thanks Guap. I'm not good at debating so I won't try to refute anything. I haven't many documentaries and Food Inc was the best of the ones I already seen which is why I nominated it.
I think it was a very entertaining documentary though. Well, it was entertaining enough that I can actually talk about it's problems for hours. ;) I think it will be high on my list actually.
Guaporense
09-21-15, 05:12 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/71/Last-train-home-lixin-fan.jpg/220px-Last-train-home-lixin-fan.jpg
Very moving documentary about daily life of ordinary Chinese trying to improve their lot in the rapidly industrializing country. I find it amazing that even lower class Chinese are so hardworking and serious about their goals. In Brazil they are usually much more lazy and not that ambitious at least. In fact, in Brazil nobody studies in school and it's even considered shameful to actually work for school and take it seriously. I began to study for my university exams in fact.
I think it will be placed high on my list here and maybe even in my top 25 documentaries list for that ranking.
Glad you liked Last Train Home Guap. It does a great job of being informative in regards to the huge cultural changes going on in China but is also deeply personal due to it focussing on the effects of those changes on one family. I hope other people enjoy it too.
The Imposter: Wow, this was great. My favourite documentaries are those that actually tell a story rather than just being informative. This told a fascinating story and created a lot of tension thanks to excellent editing. Really enjoyed it.
Food Inc.: Very interesting and the director does a good job of proving his case. The only negative is it uses "sensationalism" a bit much at times and comes across a bit like a prime time current affairs expose. Overall I thought it was good.
Baraka: This is the only nomination aside from my own that I'd seen before. I love this style of movie - basically a montage of images and music that paint a picture of a changing world. Whilst it's not my favourite movie of this type I still think it's good.
Citizen Rules
09-21-15, 09:16 PM
I watched my first documentary last night for the Hof:)
But how to rate it?...I've never reviewed and rated a doc before. What if the subject matter was good but the production values poor?
Let's say I watch a doc that's pro death penalty and is engaging and interesting but I disagree with it's premise, does it get a low score because of my conflicting view point? Would that be fair?
What if I agree with the docs stand on an issue but it's boring with crummy production values. Do I still give it a high mark because I agree with it?
What do you guys do?
How do you rate your "entertainment" films? You might as well stay true to yourself.
I watched my first documentary last night for the Hof:)
But how to rate it?...I've never reviewed and rated a doc before. What if the subject matter was good but the production values poor?
Let's say I watch a doc that's pro death penalty and is engaging and interesting but I disagree with it's premise, does it get a low score because of my conflicting view point? Would that be fair?
What if I agree with the docs stand on an issue but it's boring with crummy production values. Do I still give it a high mark because I agree with it?
What do you guys do?
I think I approach the same way I do narrative film. If a film seems to have an agenda it will probably not appeal to me as much as one that has more nuance and kind of just lets its subjects speak for themselves. Take American Movie that I watched last night. I couldn't be more of a polar opposite than the subjects but I loved it and enjoyed my time with this interesting character.
I have just been giving ratings based on my gut. The more I have rated the more I have got a feeling for it.
Citizen Rules
09-21-15, 09:45 PM
Thanks Mark and Sean, that's helpful. So I'll just do what I normally do with entertainment films and go with my gut feeling.
So I will get to writing my thoughts on last nights doc.
Guaporense
09-21-15, 10:18 PM
I watched my first documentary last night for the Hof:)
But how to rate it?...I've never reviewed and rated a doc before. What if the subject matter was good but the production values poor?
Let's say I watch a doc that's pro death penalty and is engaging and interesting but I disagree with it's premise, does it get a low score because of my conflicting view point? Would that be fair?
What if I agree with the docs stand on an issue but it's boring with crummy production values. Do I still give it a high mark because I agree with it?
What do you guys do?
I rate it based on how much it captured my attention. Even if I disagree with what they said (like Food Inc.).
Citizen Rules
09-21-15, 10:23 PM
Thanks Guap, that helps, as I find I'm having trouble reviewing the doc I watched. OK back to working on the review for me.
Citizen Rules
09-21-15, 10:51 PM
Dear Zachary:A Letter to a Son About His Father.
If you haven't seen this doc, don't read my review as I will include spoilers.
First let me say this was an excellent choice for the Doc Hof, a very different and emotion packed film. Of course a story like this one is heartbreaking and generates strong emotions. When the film maker show us the bereaved parents talking about the loss of their murdered son as they choke back tears, it's going to be powerful. When they tell about a foreboding visit to the morgue and the shock of seeing their son laying there, it hits like a ton of bricks.
But I can't escape one thing, the post production choices were poorly executed. The film maker had all of these mini interviews with friends and family overlapping their dialogue with fast break editing. It was distracting and not suited to the subject matter. I never felt like I got to know the subject.
The decision to animate the mouths in a photo of the judge and lawyer who obstructed the case was amusing, but this is a serious film and it was sophomoric and inapporitate. The film maker also did his own voice over narrative. His reading was so flat that when he spoke lines directly to the dead man's son, it sounded insincere. I'm sure he was very sincere, but it didn't come off that way.
A powerful story but not told very well.
I didn't find any of those things distracting, and I definitely felt I got to know the subject. I'll be interested in how you relate to the other selections.
Citizen Rules
09-21-15, 11:14 PM
Well, you might be surprised...or you might be able to guess my reaction before I post it. I do like docs as a general rule.
cricket
09-22-15, 12:02 AM
I repped you CR, but I'm not going to read the review until after I see it. I don't know anything about it, but it's one of two noms I have set up to watch with my wife, the other being The Imposter. I believe one is supposed to be emotional while the other is supposed to be maybe a crime type of doc. That's the type of stuff she likes.
gbgoodies
09-22-15, 02:39 AM
I just finished watching Dear Zachary:A Letter to a Son About His Father, and I agree 100% that if you're going to watch this, do NOT read anything about it before watching it.
Having said that, it's hard to talk about this documentary without giving up some spoilers, so I'll just say that I thought this was very emotional, but it's also a bit chaotic at times. But even with all the chaos, I felt like I was glued to the screen. It was like watching a crime thriller, and I needed to know what happened next. I constantly had to resist the urge to go to Google and search this to find out how it would end, (and I'm glad that I was able to resist the urge, because it would have completely spoiled the emotional impact of this documentary as it went along).
Glad you liked it Citizen. I couldn't disagree more about the editing. It is one of the things that I thought made the film so impactful. Those chatic moments you are talking about come at times when he is showing you that every single person is saying the same thing independent of each other. I got choked up a couple of times in those moments. I think the editing is one of the things that sets this doc apart.
I've watched West of Memphis, good doc. Can i ask Vamp, if you nominated it because it is the events of the three Paradise Lost films and a bit extra compressed into one doc? Or Have you not seen the Paradise Lost films, or did you simply like it more? Personally i preferred the trilogy but that may be because i watched them first making West of Memphis feel like a bit of a rehash.
On Dear Zachary i completely agree with Sean on the editing. It did feel chaotic but i felt it really enhanced certain moments which i can't really bring up without ruining it. Glad you liked it Citizen.
Citizen Rules
09-22-15, 03:35 PM
Vamp just messaged me and said her computer has a virus and she took it to be repaired. She was at the library using their computer. She asked me to say that it won't be for about a week until she returns.
I have the same problem, I'll probably have to send my computer to repair this week! I won't be able to watch anything soon but I'm sure I can watch everything before the deadline!
Citizen Rules
09-22-15, 03:39 PM
You don't have Windows 10 by any chance do you?
gbgoodies
09-22-15, 03:51 PM
There's a Google Chrome bug that was just found that affects the newest version of Chrome. If you're using Chrome, try Firefox or IE and see if they work okay.
It's only a DOS (Denial of Service) bug, so it's not damaging any data, but it's very annoying. Google is hoping to have a fix available within the next few days.
No, but my problem isn't a virus. It's hardware. :)
honeykid
09-22-15, 04:17 PM
In that case I've heard Viagra works wonders. ;)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/71/Last-train-home-lixin-fan.jpg/220px-Last-train-home-lixin-fan.jpg
As usual Sane comes up with a great nomination. He always seems to nominate very human stories and this fits the bill. Very effecting story about migrant workers in China that centers mostly around one family. For those of us not immersed in the culture and simply hear the horror stories of the working conditions in China this should be an especially sobering experience and it was for me. The way these people travel home on their holidays is probably as equally appalling as their work conditions. The two go hand in hand though and the way this family tries to cope will definitely effect you. Great nomination Sane.
BTW do you know if Snowpiercer was influenced by this at all?
TheUsualSuspect
09-23-15, 12:53 AM
Exit Through The Gift Shop
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/layden/Posters/exit-through-the-gift-shop-20100402-142633.jpg?t=1304145782
A documentary about 'street art' which many people view as vandalism graffiti. Many people question the validity of the film, thinking it's more of a mockumentary. In either event, the film is entertaining as hell and worth a watch.
Documentaries have the hard task of being informative and entertaining at the same time. Too much info will bore your audience. Michael Moore is probably the most famous documentary filmmakers, scoring two big hits with Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11. This film centres on a man who decides to follow street artists. He films all of them doing what they do best, saying he is making a movie. He really wasn't. He was just filming because he loves to film.
He hears about this street artist who calls himself Banksy. He's creative and also a bit of a reclusive. No one knows who he is for sure. Somehow Banksy and Thierry become friends and we are now following Banksy. Banksy tells Thierry it's finally time to edit the film and the result of hundreds of hours of footage edited by this man is quite strange. The best way to describe it was to quote Banksy himself. "Uhmmm... You know... it was at that point that I realized that maybe Thierry wasn't actually a film maker, and he was maybe just someone with mental problems who happened to have a camera"
So Banksy took over filmmaking duties, editing a new film, one that followed Thierry and also showcased street art. What we have is the film Exit Through The Gift Shop. Again, a lot of people debate over what is real or not, I don't care. The film is good and should be seen. Check it out.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/71/Last-train-home-lixin-fan.jpg/220px-Last-train-home-lixin-fan.jpg
As usual Sane comes up with a great nomination. He always seems to nominate very human stories and this fits the bill. Very effecting story about migrant workers in China that centers mostly around one family. For those of us not immersed in the culture and simply hear the horror stories of the working conditions in China this should be an especially sobering experience and it was for me. The way these people travel home on their holidays is probably as equally appalling as their work conditions. The two go hand in hand though and the way this family tries to cope will definitely effect you. Great nomination Sane.
BTW do you know if Snowpiercer was influenced by this at all?
Glad you enjoyed it :) Don't know if if it influenced Snowpiercer but it's relatively unknown so I would assume it didn't.
Dear Zachary: i basically agree with criticisms of the directing choices - I didn't like the editing and some of it was pretty amateurish. Having said that where the director excelled was with the storytelling. It was exceedingly effective in that regard and the director deserves credit for that. It can be hard to really judge documentaries, especially when they have subject matter like this, because sometimes it is pretty much impossible for it not to have a huge impact on the viewer - but, regardless of whether it was well made or not it was very effective so I think it will place very highly on my final list.
The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness
http://i61.tinypic.com/4dpcp.jpg
Really enjoyed this great choice Guap. Going in i had no idea what to expect from this i knew it was about Ghibli but i thought it may have been about the history of the company, i'm glad it was about the process of making their films. This completely succeeded in making me want to see The Wind Rises which i'm planning on soon. It was surprising and pretty sad to see Miyazaki so disillusioned with his work and with society in general, because of this i feel if this was made in the 80s or 90s or whenever he was most passionate this could have been even better. Saying that there were a few moments like when he interrupted a session to explain how the characters facial expressions and body movements should look during certain scenes, that he exuded a certain wisdom and experience that i'm sure wasn't as strong during his younger more enthusiastic years. There were a few great moments like the brief scene where Miyazaki was talking about the possibilities of animation over footage of his own films which i felt was stunning. My only real disappointment was that we never really got to meet Takahata and see him work, when he was first mentioned i thought the doc was going to be split between Miyazaki and his work on Wind Rises and Takahatas with Kaguya.
My only real disappointment was that we never really got to meet Takahata and see him work, when he was first mentioned i thought the doc was going to be split between Miyazaki and his work on Wind Rises and Takahatas with Kaguya.
I felt the same way. Made me think he had a problem with it. Either that or he just doesn't talk.
I felt the same way. Made me think he had a problem with it. Either that or he just doesn't talk.
I think he's just elusive. It mentioned at one point that he is very funny about who he shows his work to so i think it's the same with everything else. We did hear him talk briefly during the reunion with Miyazaki which i thought was a great scene. Throughout the film we heard that there would be no Studio Ghibli without Takahata so i thought it was nice that he acknowledged the same would be true without Miyazaki, even the younger producer guy didn't give Hayao that much credit saying that maybe Miyazaki would still make his mark but there would be no Studio Ghibli without Takahata.
even the younger producer guy didn't give Hayao that much credit saying that maybe Miyazaki would still make his mark but there would be no Studio Ghibli without Takahata.
It is interesting how a simple statement can mean the same thing but just hit someone in a little different way. I took that statement to mean Miyazaki was the true artistic genius and even if Ghibli didn't exist he still would have left his mark on animation. I'm not disagreeing with the way you heard it at all. I just find it interesting how two people can view the same thing in different ways.
It is interesting how a simple statement can mean the same thing but just hit someone in a little different way. I took that statement to mean Miyazaki was the true artistic genius and even if Ghibli didn't exist he still would have left his mark on animation. I'm not disagreeing with the way you heard it at all. I just find it interesting how two people can view the same thing in different ways.
Yeah that is interesting and i see where you're coming from. It was his use of "maybe", maybe Miyazaki would have still made his mark, right after saying how Takahata discovered him. Maybe i'm just getting too hung up on one word.
Zachary: A letter to a son about his father
I don't know how to describe or rate this. One thing is right: don't read anything about this before you watch it!
It's a honest, touching and powerful story with a frightening background.
One month ago I'd agree with the criticism as being amateurish, but one month ago I was exposed to dozens of documentaries like this one and understood why are they important. In my mind, that's the only way to portray a story like this. It's one of those films where the cinematography suits the concept perfectly.
I needed something like this today!
Nope1172
09-24-15, 10:17 PM
I have no idea why some of you think that Dear Zachary is poorly edited/directed. I think the fast paced story is a perfect way to get along what could otherwise be a boring story. The editing was some of the best I have ever seen from any doc. Like what Camo said, during a specific seen towards the end (you will probably know what I am talking about if you have seen the film) is especially powerful due to the incredible editing.
Nope1172
09-24-15, 10:26 PM
The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness
http://www.nziff.co.nz/assets/resized/sm/upload/zy/eb/zn/73/KEY%20thekingdomofdreamsandmadness1.jpg_cmyk-0-2000-0-1125-crop.jpg?k=27837cc0c2
Sorry Guap, but I wasn't a very big fan of this film. I decided to watch it first because it was streaming on Netflix, and I just watched Spirited Away for the 8th HoF and loved it. I thought this documentary was very slow moving and boring. I could't figure out if the film was supposed to be a history of studio Ghibli, or if it was supposed to show the process of how the films were made, and I thought it didn't do a good job at either of those. Now don't get me wrong, I have tremendous amounts of respect for bot Miyazaki and the rest of Ghibli, but to be honest, it took me more than one sitting to complete this incredibly overlong and boring film.
2.5-
TheUsualSuspect
09-24-15, 11:32 PM
West of Memphis
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d5/West_of_Memphis_poster.jpg/215px-West_of_Memphis_poster.jpg
Having followed the story and seen the previous films on HBO, a lot of this documentary felt like a rehash to me. Yet, in saying that, it does not detract from the story, nor was I bored. To say that the story behind this case is compelling is an understatement. These boys were sent to prison in 1994, for the murder of 3 young boys. Having served 18 years in prison, this documentary explores the history of the case and the possible release of these young men. Damien Echols was 18 at the time of his sentencing and had been on DEATH ROW, the entire time.
I look back at the history of our world during that time. These boys were locked up for the iPod, 9/11, Bush as president, and many more. To think that these boys were not really around the experience these events are really fascinating to me.
There are people out there who believe these boys are guilty, despite the documentaries that have come out over the years. I'm not going to sway one way or the other, but instead watch how the justice system seems to fail on a regular basis. I recently watched the HBO documentary series, The Jinx, which is almost the complete opposite of this case. True crime stories are really fascinating stories and this one is near the top.
4
I pretty much agree with you on West of Memphis Suspect, except i likked it a little less which is most likely because i had watched the Paradise Lost films more than once by the time i watched it. Since you liked this and The Jynx i'd suggest you check out the Staircase, it's a ridiculously long series that is split into episodes, i think you'll like it.
Nope what do you mean you couldn't tell if it was a history of Ghibli or not? There is barely any history at all, there are a few short scenes that explain how people became part of the company, but i can't see that being any more than 5 minutes total.
Nope1172
09-25-15, 08:26 AM
Nope what do you mean you couldn't tell if it was a history of Ghibli or not? There is barely any history at all, there are a few short scenes that explain how people became part of the company, but i can't see that being any more than 5 minutes total.
That wasn't what I meant, I meant that the documentary didn't really have a purpose. It just kind of showed people doing stuff. If it had been all about history, it would have been interesting, if it had been all about how the films were made, it would have been fun. It wasn't either of those things it should have been.
Fair enough i agree it could've been better if it was more focused.
I think it would have been better if it had been all about Pixar. ;)
Nope1172
09-25-15, 06:19 PM
Camo, are you back in or still dropped out?
I have no idea why some of you think that Dear Zachary is poorly edited/directed. I think the fast paced story is a perfect way to get along what could otherwise be a boring story. The editing was some of the best I have ever seen from any doc. Like what Camo said, during a specific seen towards the end (you will probably know what I am talking about if you have seen the film) is especially powerful due to the incredible editing.
Nothing about the story is boring - that's why I disliked the editing. It became a distraction - like the director was trying to turn this amazing, emotional story into an action movie. To start with I was trying to work out what it was about this guy that made him deserving of a film and twenty people saying three words each in a 30 second montage didn't help.
Obviously things changed when the real point of the movie became clear.
American Movie: Very entertaining documentary but I had a few minor issues with it. In some ways it felt like it was trying to find a balance between showing a couple of lovable guys chasing their dreams ... and "lol, look at the idiots". Actually, that's not really an issue - just something I was thinking while watching but maybe that was just me. The other issue, which again was probably just me, is that I found myself hoping for the movie to go a particular way and end like The Story of Anvil but it never quite got there.
Anyway, I enjoyed it. This is a very high quality HoF so far :)
American Movie: Very entertaining documentary but I had a few minor issues with it. In some ways it felt like it was trying to find a balance between showing a couple of lovable guys chasing their dreams ... and "lol, look at the idiots". Actually, that's not really an issue - just something I was thinking while watching but maybe that was just me. The other issue, which again was probably just me, is that I found myself hoping for the movie to go a particular way and end like The Story of Anvil but it never quite got there.
Anyway, I enjoyed it. This is a very high quality HoF so far :)
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I never feel that myself while watching it. To me it's such a loving, heartfelt documentary about passion.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I never feel that myself while watching it. To me it's such a loving, heartfelt documentary about passion.
I agree. I feel the documentary would've came across fake and intentionally so, losing alot of its charm, if the dumb, bad moments were left out. I suppose it depends on whether you think their behaviour is intentional or not, i do feel that way the Documentary maker never thought it would be a big hit, and that Mark and Mike largely act the same way since.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I never feel that myself while watching it. To me it's such a loving, heartfelt documentary about passion.
You are probably right. Have you seen The Story of Anvil? They are kind of similar and that was probably heavily influenced by AM. In that there are lots of "lol, look at the idiots" moments but it does a great job of turning it around and almost making me question myself for being too judgemental. I have seen that three times tough - this is my first watch of AM and I'll probably feel differently if I watch it again.
Yeah, I saw it fairly recently and enjoyed it. It doesn't compare to American Movie, which is quite simply one of my favorites, though.
I love Anvil too and completely see were you are coming from now Sane.
I agree. I feel the documentary would've came across fake and intentionally so, losing alot of its charm, if the dumb, bad moments were left out. I suppose it depends on whether you think their behaviour is intentional or not, i do feel that way the Documentary maker never thought it would be a big hit, and that Mark and Mike largely act the same way since.
It's hard for me to get my point across because I never really thought about this. Those "dumb" moments in American Movie simply never felt that way to me. They're goofy dudes. I feel I am the same way, so maybe it's the relatability for me.
I think the movie, now that I think about it, is trying to point out that just because people aren't dashingly handsome, incredibly bright, etc. doesn't mean they aren't of worth. I'm a big fan of eccentricity and passion, and these guys are the definition of that. I admire passion more than I admire intellect, which is why I like Mark so much.
There are movies that make you feel like you're at home when you watch it, and for me personally, American Movie is the definitive example of that kind of film.
I'm not saying Mark isn't bright, by the way.
It's hard for me to get my point across because I never really thought about this. Those "dumb" moments in American Movie simply never felt that way to me. They're goofy dudes. I feel I am the same way, so maybe it's the relatability for me.
I think the movie, now that I think about it, is trying to point out that just because people aren't dashingly handsome, incredibly bright, etc. doesn't mean they aren't of worth. I'm a big fan of eccentricity and passion, and these guys are the definition of that. I admire passion more than I admire intellect, which is why I like Mark so much.
There are movies that make you feel like you're at home when you watch it, and for me personally, American Movie is the definitive example of that kind of film.
Love that comment, your admiration and respect really comes across for Mark. As an independent (aspiring or not i believe in you ;) ) film maker, i see why this hits you more than most, in the end whatever you think of his film, Marks determination is pretty inspiring .
Does anybody know how American Movie came to be made? I mean, what caused the filmmakers to make a movie about Mark? I don't recall anybody saying why.
Does anybody know how American Movie came to be made? I mean what caused the filmmakers to make a movie about Mark? I don't recall anybody saying why.
I feel knowing the why kind of takes away from it. I know you are going to post what actually happened which will destroy my views of everything that happened, usually i'm grateful but American Movie is something i'd be happy staying willfully ignorant about.
I'm not going to post anything. I don't know why. When we watched it, my daughter asked me and I couldn't find why. I honestly don't know why somebody wouldn't want to know how he came to the makers' attention.
Does anybody know how American Movie came to be made? I mean, what caused the filmmakers to make a movie about Mark? I don't recall anybody saying why.
I had this conversation with my buddy after watching it earlier in the week. No true spoilers because I didn't find out anything concrete. I will wrap my conjecture and what I did find in spoilers in case Camo cares. I thought Mark sounded like someone who went to film school by some of the language he used. That and the fact that they were editing as WU made me look into it a bit. The film makers went to school where mark was doing the editing. My theory is Mark went to school for a bit with the film makers. I have no other proof of that though.
I'm not going to post anything. I don't know why. When we watched it, my daughter asked me and I couldn't find why. I honestly don't know why somebody wouldn't want to know how he came to the makers' attention.
Ok, i was half expecting a detailed description of events from you. I'm still content with what came across from the doc but i am curious now about some of the questions you brought up.
Thanks Sean, that has explained alot.
cricket
09-26-15, 09:45 AM
Exit Through the Gift Shop
For documentaries, I think it's huge when the movie can make me interested in a subject that I have no interest in, and that's what happens here. I still think most of these artists are clowns, but I can't deny that some of their work is awesome.
http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/c7effb29f0bc5fba4db3eadf8462a445/exit-through-the-gift-shop.jpg
I really loved the first hour of this as the movie followed these people around, and showed how they get their work done. When the twist came, which in theory I liked, my interest waned just a little bit. Thankfully, it didn't drag on at all. I guess there's a lot of questions as to weather or not this was all actually real. I don't know, and I don't really care. I just enjoyed watching it, and it's something I would've never watched on my own.
3.5
Thursday Next
09-26-15, 12:15 PM
I still think most of these artists are clowns, but I can't deny that some of their work is awesome.
I think this is partly the assertion of the movie too. There's a certain amount of self-deprecation in there, or at least it opens the idea up to thought and discussion from the audience. What, really, is the difference between a Banksy and a Mr Brainwash? What makes art art?
Glad you enjoyed it.
American Movie
So... I can't say I loved this tough it's not bad. I definitely can see what swan sees in it, the passion Mark reveals is definitely impressive and touching. I started the movie thinking: "Jesus, what a douche" but I gradually started respecting his sacrifice and belief.
However I didn't relate in any way to any of the characters here, which made it a pretty forgettable watching, except some pretty good scenes and a general honest feeling around it ( hope I'm not being too incoherent).
3 -
What made you think Mark was a douche in the beginning?
I don't know, his general attitude... He looked like the definition of the loser! But I eventually realized his devotion to the film making is astonishing and that he could actually make it some day, with a bit of luck. It made me want to get out of the sofa and go shoot a movie. In that sense, I liked what I saw. But I just couldn't relate to it and that matters a lot to me!
I don't have a problem with you not being able to relate to it, but I definitely disagree that he came off as a loser at any point in the film. :)
TheUsualSuspect
09-27-15, 05:31 PM
Since you liked this and The Jynx i'd suggest you check out the Staircase, it's a ridiculously long series that is split into episodes, i think you'll like it.
I will check that out, you're the second person to recommend this to me. ;)
I don't have a problem with you not being able to relate to it, but I definitely disagree that he came off as a loser at any point in the film. :)
Same here. You see so many people in similar situations not doing anything with their lives, yet he works really hard to make his dream come true.while also working other jobs and seeing his kids as much as he can, definition of a non-loser.
Well put Camo, I fully agree.
honeykid
09-27-15, 06:11 PM
For those in the UK, The Jinx: The Life And Deaths Of Robert Durst is being shown from the beginning on Sky Atlantic tomorrow (Monday) at 9pm.
I don't have a problem with you not being able to relate to it, but I definitely disagree that he came off as a loser at any point in the film. :)
Same here. You see so many people in similar situations not doing anything with their lives, yet he works really hard to make his dream come true.while also working other jobs and seeing his kids as much as he can, definition of a non-loser.
But that's why I changed my opinion! During the first minutes, that's not clear! He only looks like a fan boy with too much time on his hands! My opinion changes quite quickly, when I see everything he does for his dream! He's definitely a non-loser, don't get me wrong!
cricket
09-28-15, 11:33 AM
Last Train Home
I knew nothing about this, and it's not something I'd ever watch on my own. Despite that, I had high expectations with it being Sane's nomination. I usually really dig whatever he picks out, and this was no exception.
http://static01.nyt.com/images/2010/08/29/arts/29home-span/29home-span-articleLarge.jpg
I thought this was successful on a couple of levels. For one thing, I just find it fascinating to see how another culture lives. It's the kind of thing that really makes me appreciate what I have. Then the other aspect is seeing one particular family struggle through daily life. A big part of that is seeing a teen grow up too soon, be confused about her parent's motivations, and ultimately having her act out and rebel. I think in a certain regard, the filmmaker got lucky in having some drama take place within the family. That is not something that could be predicted. It certainly wasn't lucky to film all this while fighting the crowds. That had to take some serious tenacity. It seems to me that the success of many documentaries lies in how informative they are. In this one, you observe and experience. All in all, a terrific piece of work.
4
Thursday Next
09-28-15, 04:38 PM
Last Train Home
https://zeitgeistfilms.com/lasttrainhome/LastTrainHome_header.jpg
This was a very thought-provoking film. My sympathies shifted between the hard-working but absent parents and the rebellious daughter at different points during the film. In the end, I just thought it was a sad situation for all of them, you can’t really judge any of them for their actions. It’s very well filmed, and managed to tell the story, or rather give a glimpse into these people’s lives with very minimal dialogue. In fact, the brief interviews with other passengers on the train aside, the dialogue was the weak point of the film for me. It seemed quite staged, the people in the film saying things to each other which they wouldn’t necessarily need to say in that way, for the benefit of the camera. It seemed to me it would have made more sense to just have them say it to the camera, but perhaps it’s just a different style of documentary film making than I’m used to. Altogether a good film, not one I would probably have stumbled across on my own, so glad it was nominated.
4
Citizen Rules
09-28-15, 11:24 PM
http://culture.tainan.gov.tw/ufiles/c/2014032616/act_month_p0304795003628.jpg
Food Inc.
I guess what I was expecting to see was based on what some said here, that Food Inc. felt one sided. So I thought it would be about meat bad - vegans good. But it wasn't about that. I never felt that the film maker was saying that eating meat was bad for the planet.
What I found intriguing and quite sad was that a handful of super corporations control a big part of the food supply in America. Even worse those corporations control the politicians. Or more accurately some politicians give their loyalties to the highest bidder, usually the corporations. If that wasn't enough, some of the government officials in charge of the FDA etc, are former associates of these huge food conglomerations.
I feel sorry for the next generation, as I fear corporate greed and political sell out is ruining our country. I guess I already knew that before watching Food Inc. but seeing how insidious corporate greed is...was eye opening.
This documentary did what a good documentary should do, it informed while holding my attention. It was balanced, it was well made and articulate. I will remember this one for a long time. Thanks Mushroom for nominating it.
Thursday Next
09-29-15, 06:20 AM
The Imposter
http://cdn1-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2012/07/file_191871_0_Imposter_2012.jpg
This is a slickly made film which held my attention throughout. It played out like a thriller, keeping me on the edge of my seat to find out just when and how this guy would get caught. It even throws up a couple of twists in the tale. There are even glimmers of sympathy for the con man with his loveless childhood and his supposed desire to start a new life, although these are quashed by his nauseating, smirking self-promotion and complete lack of remorse or empathy for the family he manipulated.
The film threw up some interesting issues about how people cope with losing a child and just how much the family wanted to believe he was the real thing. Also the jaw-dropping incompetence of some of the officials involved.
I felt this truth-is-stranger-than-fiction story would make an excellent fictional film (imagine The Imposter directed by David Fincher, I'd pay to see it). Especially if his accusations about the family having killed Nicholas turned out to be true. Con man tricks his way into grieving family only to face the same fate as the boy he replaced.
However, it wasn't a fictional film. This was about real people, who have really suffered due to this man's actions and I can't help but wonder whether there is something irresponsible about giving him such a platform, allowing the mud he flings at the family to stick, when clearly he is a compulsive liar who has subsequently caused suffering to other families of missing children with his malicious lies. All for the sake of an entertaining story.
Thursday Next
09-29-15, 06:38 AM
Food Inc
https://anamos1527.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/chicken-house.jpg
This was better than I thought it was going to be, more informative and less preachy than I expected. A lot of it is only really shocking if you are starting from a position of complete ignorance - does anybody really believe that the meat in their burger comes from happy animals wandering freely around a green farm? I remember watching films about battery farming and writing reports on it when I was at school. Also, as a vegetarian I spent most of the meat portion of the film feeling faintly smug. However what was interesting was the revelations about the way in which the food industry works and how it is controlled by a very few companies. As the film said, even if you don't eat a fast food burger, you're eating food that is a product of that whole subsidised corn system. The way that food can so easily be contaminated - the meat from hundreds of different animals that goes into one burger's worth of ground beef, for example, was an eye-opener, as well as the way in which e-coli has been introduced by the industrial farming methods. I didn't realise companies could have such a monopoly on a single food item like a soy bean. And of course it is impossible not to care about the woman whose son died and the bean cleaner, powerless against the closed system of big, evil corporations. The bit with the family was interesting, a lot of anti-obesity measures focus on personal responsibility, but people, especially poorer people are trapped by this kind of system. I've been to a supermarket and seen a packet of apples costs five times more than a packet of doughnuts - it's not as free choice as some people think.
I was less keen on the promotion of the 'alternative' farmer, I thought too much time was spent with him and it was almost like an advert for him and his methods, although I suppose it was necessary for the film makers to show an alternative to the current system. It was also very American-centric "this is what we eat in our country" etc. which made me feel a little removed from it, and made me wonder how the food industry works in other countries.
3.5
Nope1172
09-29-15, 06:14 PM
I know it's a bit late, but here are my thoughts on the docs I had already seen prior to the HoF
Dear Zachary: This film is my nom and it was also the only documentary to make my top 50. I love everything about this film. A gripping story, fantastic editing, and a great narrator. Since the director of the film was directly involved in the events that take place, it makes everything so much more effective then if an outside person was narrating the film. So far I have not been able to get through this movie without crying, and it doesn't seem like most go you have either :laugh:
Exit Through the Gift Shop: I really enjoyed this film when I first saw it. I thought it was just a ton of fun. The history behind street art is incredibly interesting and the series of events that surround "Mr. Brainwash" are hilarious. I just find it amazing that one person who decides to film everything just so happens to stumble straight in the middle of the biggest art phenomenon of this decade. Hilarious, informative, and very fun documentary.
Food Inc.: What I liked most about this movie was that it wasn't anti-meat, just anti meat production. This film did not use guilt, it used facts, something many documentaries fail to understand. Other than that this film didn't really stand out for me in any way. It wasn't bad, it was just kind of average.
Baraka
http://i61.tinypic.com/2eyz0jp.jpg
Well there isn't much for me to say about this at all, other than it's a visual masterpiece that i had a great time watching. I'm actually planning on rewatching this one close to the deadline so i can get all i can out of it. Great nomination Neiba!!
Glad you liked it Camo! :)
Citizen Rules
09-30-15, 12:43 PM
Enron, the Smartest Guys in the Room
Remember when I asked what criteria I should judge these docs on, production values or subject matter? Well if Dear Zachary was an emotional story but with less than stellar production values, then Enron is the opposite...an excellent production but on a personal level I found the subject itself unengaging. I personally can't relate to the world of finance and money moving. My brain basically starts drifting when numbers appear.
I did take away the most important points of the doc, which is, like Food Inc., the corporate world is in bed with the political world. In this case George W. Bush was Enron's bitch. Sorry to say that but that's what I learned from this doc. I did learn one more thing, that the employees of Enron got screwed by the CEO and board of directors. Come to think of it I guess this doc did engage me.
Guaporense
09-30-15, 04:08 PM
Food Inc This was better than I thought it was going to be, more informative and less preachy than I expected.
It's indeed better than most documentaries that try to attack an industry (like Super Size Me or another one about the meat processing industry whose name I forgot).
A lot of it is only really shocking if you are starting from a position of complete ignorance - does anybody really believe that the meat in their burger comes from happy animals wandering freely around a green farm?
Yeah, Sherlock.
Guaporense
09-30-15, 04:11 PM
You are probably right. Have you seen The Story of Anvil? They are kind of similar and that was probably heavily influenced by AM. In that there are lots of "lol, look at the idiots" moments but it does a great job of turning it around and almost making me question myself for being too judgemental. I have seen that three times tough - this is my first watch of AM and I'll probably feel differently if I watch it again.
Agreed that both are very similar. But I think that Anvil is more emotional portrayal of artists suffering for their art while American Movie is more "lol, look at the idiots." type of movie.
It's hard for me to get my point across because I never really thought about this. Those "dumb" moments in American Movie simply never felt that way to me. They're goofy dudes. I feel I am the same way, so maybe it's the relatability for me.
I think the movie, now that I think about it, is trying to point out that just because people aren't dashingly handsome, incredibly bright, etc. doesn't mean they aren't of worth. I'm a big fan of eccentricity and passion, and these guys are the definition of that. I admire passion more than I admire intellect, which is why I like Mark so much.
There are movies that make you feel like you're at home when you watch it, and for me personally, American Movie is the definitive example of that kind of film.
American Movie was great to me. Reminded me a bit of my highschool friends. :) I think I will include it into my documentary top 25 for the countdown.
Guaporense
09-30-15, 04:17 PM
That wasn't what I meant, I meant that the documentary didn't really have a purpose. It just kind of showed people doing stuff. If it had been all about history, it would have been interesting, if it had been all about how the films were made, it would have been fun. It wasn't either of those things it should have been.
It's basically "Miyazaki's daily life", for people who are obsessed with him like me is great. To see the artistic genius in action. :eek: Also has Hideaki Anno (director of Gunbuster by the way) being the dork he is. :eek:
I wish they showed also Werner Herzog who did voice acting in The Wind Rises as well. Miyazaki decided to pick film directors as main voice actors for The Wind Rises, which is quite a departure and a cost given that usually you need to pay only a few thousand dollars to hire a professional voice actor, whose technique is superior. Anyway, but it's like super cool to have both Herzog and Anno as actors in your movie I guess. :eek:
Citizen Rules
10-01-15, 12:44 PM
Note: I don't spoil the mystery of this film, my review is safe to read if you haven't seen it yet.
I won't even give you a clue to what this is about.
http://images.csmonitor.com/csm/2012/08/imposter.jpg?alias=standard_600x400
The Imposter
Wow...this was one helluva ride! I was totally spell bound by it. Talk about an emotional roller coaster ride. And talk about expert story telling, this film takes the viewer from one frame of mind and then flips it 180 degrees, then flips it some more, fasniating. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction, that's what I love about documentaries. It's going to take a damn fine documentary to knock this off it's pedestal. I'm impressed!
gbgoodies
10-01-15, 02:55 PM
As a documentary, I agree that The Imposter was good because it was an interesting story that was explained, and it held my interest, but I was surprised at how unemotional the family was in their interviews. The people investigating it seemed to be the only people who showed any emotion. I thought the family should have shown some type of emotion, sadness, anger, embarrassment, something, but they just seemed to stare at the camera stone-faced during their interviews.
Can't wait for you guys to start watching Beauty Day. My first tim nominating a film I know probably nobody has seen. I think it will be well received.
gbgoodies
10-01-15, 03:29 PM
Can't wait for you guys to start watching Beauty Day. My first tim nominating a film I know probably nobody has seen. I think it will be well received.
I read about Beauty Day on WIkipedia, and if it's anything like it's description, I can tell you right now that I'm going to hate it. (I hate that kind of stuff.) But I think there are other people here who will love it, so I'm going to wait for some reviews to come in, (that will hopefully be a little bit descriptive), before I decide whether or not to watch it.
Citizen Rules
10-01-15, 08:31 PM
Can't wait for you guys to start watching Beauty Day. My first time nominating a film I know probably nobody has seen. I think it will be well received.
I read about Beauty Day on WIkipedia, and if it's anything like it's description, I can tell you right now that I'm going to hate it. (I hate that kind of stuff.) But I think there are other people here who will love it...
I've been going into these blind. Last night when I watched The Impostor, I had no idea what it was about. I didn't even remember if it was for the 8th or Doc Hof, or something I had requested months ago. I know nothing about Beauty Day and I'm going to keep that way so I'll be surprised.
I read about Beauty Day on WIkipedia, and if it's anything like it's description, I can tell you right now that I'm going to hate it. (I hate that kind of stuff.) But I think there are other people here who will love it, so I'm going to wait for some reviews to come in, (that will hopefully be a little bit descriptive), before I decide whether or not to watch it.
What about the synopsis makes you think that?
gbgoodies
10-01-15, 08:59 PM
I read about Beauty Day on WIkipedia, and if it's anything like it's description, I can tell you right now that I'm going to hate it. (I hate that kind of stuff.) But I think there are other people here who will love it, so I'm going to wait for some reviews to come in, (that will hopefully be a little bit descriptive), before I decide whether or not to watch it.
What about the synopsis makes you think that?
I don't want to spoil it for anyone, so I'll wrap this in spoiler tags:
Without writing the whole description, I'll just include some of the statements that make me think that I'll hate it. "outlandish stunts which resembled those seen in the later Jackass series", "Zavadil licked off chocolate sauce that was applied to a dog", "featured a rabbit hung from a bungee cord", etc.
It shouldn't surprise anyone who knows my tastes that this is not my taste. :shrug:
Citizen Rules
10-01-15, 09:35 PM
Good....I was going to make sure an avert my eyes:cool:. I do appreciate the spoiler tag GBG.
Sean when I review Beauty Day do you want a frank review or just my brief thoughts? I've tried to be honest in my reviews but without being too harsh. I don't know how other people feel about that?
TheUsualSuspect
10-01-15, 11:40 PM
Food Inc is next on my list.
Glad people are enjoying The Imposter.
SilentVamp
10-02-15, 02:14 AM
I just made a quick comment over in the 8th HoF. So, I wanted to make one here, too.
Over the time that I have been gone, I managed to watch 9 out of 13 of these. And the one was actually a re-watch. I had a feeling that I'd seen it before and then I knew for sure that I had. Again, as I said in the other thread, I will comment on them later. And I will get to reading what everyone else has read over the next few days.
Good....I was going to make sure an avert my eyes:cool:. I do appreciate the spoiler tag GBG.
Sean when I review Beauty Day do you want a frank review or just my brief thoughts? I've tried to be honest in my reviews but without being too harsh. I don't know how other people feel about that?
Harsh away brother. If I ever make a movie I might tell you different. ;)
Going to watch The Impostor tonight it is the only one i've already seen that i have to rewatch as i don't remember it well. That will make 8 of 13 for me but i may still rewatch the others just to see if they hold up.
Citizen Rules
10-02-15, 12:16 PM
Vamp...welcome back, 9 out of 13 watched, impressive.
Sean...no worries so far all the documentaries have been excellent nominations. Though GBG has a bit worried by her reaction to the wiki information. I'm going to go into the doc blind and with an open mind.
Camo, 8 out of 13 also impressive....I need to start watching more!
cricket
10-03-15, 10:31 AM
The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness
http://www.gkidsfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/kingdom_hires_3.jpg
I didn't have high hopes for this one, probably because I'm not the biggest anime fan. I struggled through about the first 20 minutes before really getting into it.
http://www.gkidsfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/kingdom_hires_2.jpg
The Wind Rises is my favorite Miyazaki film, so I think that helped me with this movie. It also didn't hurt that I recently watched The Tale of the Princess Kaguya, which Guap nominated for the 7th Hall of Fame. That was a nice tie-in. I think there's a lot here that could be explored more. Miyazaki could easily have his own documentary like Ebert's Life Itself, something that details his entire life. Takahata is also worthy of his own spotlight, and just more of the history of Studio Ghibli showing how more of the films came to life would be a fascinating watch. I thought there were plenty of great scenes in this movie, from how they decided on the voice actor, to the screening of The Wind Rises for the crew, to when Miyazaki looks over the rooftops explaining the possibilities of animation. It was fascinating getting a glimpse at the creative process that goes into making one of these movies. Miyazaki certainly has the vision behind everything, but there's also so many people who work tirelessly to help bring it to life. I loved seeing The Wind Rises being worked on and completed; it was like watching something beautiful being born. I think that when I watch one of these movies in the future, this documentary will help me appreciate it even more. I thought this was a great nomination, and it was a big surprise for me.
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