ITT we liveboard the 2016 debates [Archive] - Page 2

Slappydavis

02-26-16, 03:32 AM

Oh man, this was ice cold.

Eh, that one didn't really land for me. I do think the statute of limitations on lying was both solid and seemingly improvised.

Interesting debate, while I never like Trump debate performances as much as other people, I think this was weak at least relative to his other debates. Just talking over people and repeating himself. But, generally when I make those kind of judgments, the opposite is felt by GOP voters.

Best of luck to your guy Yoda. There's part of me that doesn't want him to win because I think he's kind of just a young front to the typical establishment viewpoints that is also electable, but your party has to get its **** together and get Trump out of this thing. Even if it's my party's best shot at getting the White House, it's irresponsible to let him get this close.

Slappydavis

02-26-16, 03:43 AM

I was a bit disappointed to hear Rubio's position on DACA, I actually work with the program a lot, and it's a great program that's helped a lot of people also get other kinds of already existing visas that they legally qualify for already. A lot of people have a specific and legal right to be here, but they see their communities consistently mistreated by the government and they lose trust. A lot of work with DACA applicants are done via non-profits with pro-bono lawyers, and it's helped a ton in rebuilding a semblance of reasonable communication between these groups and state actors.

It seemed like he was talking about DACA in its entirety too, not just the extended DACA or DAPA that is currently under injunction and is hitting SCOTUS this summer.

Goofy Dude

02-26-16, 04:42 AM

They have to get rid of that stupid rule if their name comes up, they get to speak. One time Rubio gleefully said, "My name came up! I get to speak." But it was just in passing. It should be up to the moderator if they want the candidate to respond to something, not an automatic. That's the way it was I think until this year.

This is the craziest election year I have ever seen.

It is cool the big money donors are all complaining. They can't seem to buy an election this year. Jeb was supposed to scare all the other candidates away by raising so much money early. He didn't (except Mitt Romney) and all 100 hundred million of it went down the rat hole.

I'm glad Jeb is out of it. Please clap.

cricket

02-26-16, 08:29 AM

I thought the attacks on Trump were largely ineffective if taken by themselves, and that their only positive effects were in agitating Trump and making him lose his cool. It's difficult to attack a businessman's record when they don't play by the same rules as a politician. I thought the best line of the night came from Trump when responding to whoever's comment from Mexico about not paying for the wall, "the wall just got 10 feet taller"; people like that sort of talk. If Trump wins, I see it as mostly a failure by the other candidates rather than a victory by Trump. There's nobody to get excited about in either party, and I really question how intelligent these educated candidates really are. These things are more about presentation than they are about the issues. For some reason, these people can't communicate in a down to earth manner that everyday people can relate to. It's not that hard to do, but it seems they are liked trained monkeys. Rubio is not bad in this way, but he has no presence. Carson could have won this, but he is too passive. Most people will vote for the person that comes off as the least phony, and the one they can relate to the best. Does a person like that who has experience and a good record even exist?

Yoda

02-26-16, 10:27 AM

Eh, that one didn't really land for me. I do think the statute of limitations on lying was both solid and seemingly improvised.
I just mean that it was scathing. And from my perspective, it's a pretty good encapsulation: this guy's a huckster at heart, he's just a huckster who inherited a ton of money.

But yeah, lots of good back and forth that was clearly improvised. It was always a forced meme, but now it's jumped the shark. If the dude can memorize that many possible responses and counterattacks, then I say all hail our new robot politician overlords.

I did really enjoy these, though:

https://twitter.com/adamplease/status/703064994498351104

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4CVhtsjl9M

Can someone please teach him the word "borders"?

Interesting debate, while I never like Trump debate performances as much as other people, I think this was weak at least relative to his other debates. Just talking over people and repeating himself. But, generally when I make those kind of judgments, the opposite is felt by GOP voters.
Yeah, you know you're onto something when he interrupts and yells over it. That's his only move. I gotta say, though, even knowing what kinda guy Trump is, I'm still consistently amazed at how often he just straight-up denies things that are easily provable.

Best of luck to your guy Yoda. There's part of me that doesn't want him to win because I think he's kind of just a young front to the typical establishment viewpoints that is also electable, but your party has to get its **** together and get Trump out of this thing. Even if it's my party's best shot at getting the White House, it's irresponsible to let him get this close.
I hear ya'. I'd like to think I'd feel the same way in your shoes. My version of this is that I'd gladly accept another candidate, even someone I don't like nearly as much, if it meant stopping Trump.

I do take comfort in the knowledge that he'd be very unlikely to win even if he is the nominee. Whatever my disagreements with Hillary, I'm a lot more confident about her range of outcomes, and it would probably lead to a much stronger, better Republican party in four years.

But yeah, even better if we can excise this insanity right here and now. Last night was a good first step.

Slappydavis

02-26-16, 04:11 PM

I just mean that it was scathing. And from my perspective, it's a pretty good encapsulation: this guy's a huckster at heart, he's just a huckster who inherited a ton of money.
Fair point, though I don't know enough about his business to say whether or not he's just an average businessman who happens to have leverage.

I gotta say, though, even knowing what kinda guy Trump is, I'm still consistently amazed at how often he just straight-up denies things that are easily provable.
I also find it weird, and maybe this is my imagination, but it seems to be increasing across the board since it seemed to be working for Trump.

Also: Christe endorsement (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/chris-christie-endorses-donald-trump-president/story?id=37220435), normally I wouldn't care, but this seems like a clear VP play. Which kinda makes sense as a way to balance his hypothetical ticket while keeping the straight-talk brand strong.

Yoda

02-26-16, 04:24 PM

Fair point, though I don't know enough about his business to say whether or not he's just an average businessman who happens to have leverage.
I won't pretend to know for sure, but we have a lot of evidence to suggest average is probably the ceiling. Someone (apparently) ran the numbers and found that if you took his inheritance and just invested it in an S&P Index, he'd have more than he has now. And he's taken great pains to avoid disclosing his actual net worth; multiple independent examinations have concluded he's exaggerating it, and he's actually had to admit as much under oath.

I also find it weird, and maybe this is my imagination, but it seems to be increasing across the board since it seemed to be working for Trump.
Yeah, could be. I guess the logic is most people won't follow-up so you just have to save face in the moment. That's one reason I liked the "Google it" line: there was a huge spike in searches right after that, so maybe it actually worked. Though at this point I think it's safe to say anyone supporting Trump doesn't care. It's more important for people in danger of resigning themselves to him over the next couple of weeks.

Also: Christe endorsement (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/chris-christie-endorses-donald-trump-president/story?id=37220435), normally I wouldn't care, but this seems like a clear VP play. Which kinda makes sense as a way to balance his hypothetical ticket while keeping the straight-talk brand strong.
Either that or Attorney General, I suppose. I think I may have heard one time, I can't remember who it was, that he used to be a federal prosecutor.

Goofy Dude

02-26-16, 07:03 PM

Christie doesn't balance the ticket as a VP. But Trump probably doesn't care about that. He could pick his dog and his supporters would cheer.

I don't know if any of these guys who inherited wealth are great businessmen if the criteria is how they would have fared if they just put it in some kind of mutual fund. I saw this article praising how the Koch Brothers increased their father's net worth, but if you did the math it was way under the rate of inflation.

I'm not going to vote for Trump, but I like him better than those guys. He's driving them nuts. What are they going to do if he gets the nomination?

Captain Steel

02-26-16, 10:47 PM

Wasn't Christie rumored as a Romney VP / running mate last time around?

What if (gulp) Trump picks Sarah Palin as his running mate? (She's been popping up again around him.) Would that be like forfeiting the entire thing to Hillary?

Goofy Dude

02-27-16, 10:28 AM

He's not going to pick Palin to be his VP. She's not really all that popular these days except for a tiny part of the GOP base.

He sure isn't going to pick Cruz or Rubio.

Ben Carson? He's about the only one of his competition he's not feuding with.

Goofy Dude

03-01-16, 11:32 PM

Not all the results in, but one surprise. Cruz took Oklahoma, in addition to his home state, Texas. And Rubio hasn't yet won anything.

I think Rubio has looked awful the way he has gone after Trump the last several days with the small hands remark and the other personal insults. He is an idiot. He's not going to beat Trump by trying to out-trump Trump. Criticize him, sure, for his business deals and refusal to denounce David Duke, but going Don Rickles, that's Trump's domain. Rubio does it clumsily. I'm no fan of Ted Cruz, but he knows how to go attack dog, with the inference Trump has Mafia ties. That has substance, even if it turns out not to be true. Rubio saying Trump was sweating comes across like payback because Trump said that about him. He sounds like a child doing that. Rubio's only chance to be nominated is a brokered convention and he hurts his brand with that type of behavior.

Looks like Sanders probably lost Massachusetts. That's not good for him. It's in his backyard and upsets the notion Hillary can only win in the South..

Yoda

03-02-16, 01:05 AM

Eh, I think it comes off fine, because it's not mocking for its own sake: it's giving the bully a taste of his own medicine. There hasn't been much, either, but that's what gets covered most. Which makes the media pearl clutching about it hard to take seriously. I don't see where it's been clumsy, either. I've been surprised at how much fun he's seem to have had with it. I wouldn't have guessed that.

I think it hurts any general election prospects a little bit, but not much; it's a long campaign. And it's necessary. He was high minded for nine debates. Time to take the gloves off, and there's no more deserving target than Trump.

ash_is_the_gal

03-02-16, 01:10 AM

I do take comfort in the knowledge that he'd be very unlikely to win even if he is the nominee.

what makes you think so? I feel like most people thought he'd never get this far, and yet...

Yoda

03-02-16, 01:12 AM

what makes you think so? I feel like most people thought he'd never get this far, and yet...
He trails Hillary in nearly every general election poll. He has very high unfavorables.

But you're absolutely right, if he really can get this far, it's worth reevaluating what's possible, politically. I for one won't vote for him even if he is the nominee, though.

Goofy Dude

03-02-16, 01:34 AM

Rubio won Minnesota.

So both Cruz and Rubio have done just well enough to fight another day.

Trump has a better shot at beating Hillary because his message might resonate in rust belt states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Ohio. He is the guy that is bringing new people to the Republican Party to vote for him. But he is really undisciplined and I don't know how that will play in a general election. If he was a little sharper, he could take it.

Yoda

03-02-16, 10:33 AM

Cruz won Alaska, as well.

There was talk all week (and the polls to support it) that Trump might sweep, or at least win everything but Texas, but in the end he doesn't even really come close: he loses four states, and comes within three points of losing three more. He only cracked 40 in a couple of places, last I'd looked.

I think we have to conclude either a) he consistently underperforms his polls or b) the attacks are working a bit. Or a bit of both. Either way, there was plenty last night to show us that he can still be taken down. But they'll have to chip away at his leads a little bit more before 3/15. If they can do that, and deny him a couple of the big winner-take-all states, then he's going to have a hard time getting the majority of delegates needed. Of course, it might shake out that nobody else can, too, but at this point I think I'd take a contested convention over a Trump nomination.

Goofy Dude

03-02-16, 11:21 AM

You have a contested convention and Trump doesn't get the nod you have a split party and it gets real hard to win.
The Donald people are not going to flock to the establishment favorite, Rubio, who was part of the gang of eight. And if Cruz gets it, it's going to be tough.

I don't think it's so much the attacks. It's Trump. That David Duke thing doesn't hurt him in the South, but it's a problem for him elsewhere. Attacks on his statements and business practices have an effect, but Rubio's small hands remarks and hey, he sweats more than me has zero impact. It's Cruz who knows how to fight right who picked up three states. Rubio according to the polls has a struggle on his hands keeping Trump from beating him in Florida. But I think he will do it.

Captain Steel

03-02-16, 02:58 PM

Dhris Tristie
http://writerbeat.com/images/8280/Christie_:_Trump1.jpg

Yoda

03-02-16, 03:00 PM

Cannot unsee.

Captain Steel

03-03-16, 09:38 PM

Who's ready for another evening of Professional Wrestling?

Captain Steel

03-03-16, 11:45 PM

How many people wish the candidates would stop answering every single question with the phrase, "Well, first of all..."?

Yoda

03-04-16, 10:56 AM

Given what a horrendous spectacle that was last night, that's pretty far down on my list of wants.

Goofy Dude

03-04-16, 11:09 AM

I think Cruz won that one again.

I was looking at a recent poll in Florida and if it is accurate, Trump is very popular in Florida and Rubio is trailing him badly among Republicans in the primary next week.. If that's the case, Rubio is done. Unlike what you see elsewhere, in general election match-ups Trump is the only GOP candidate that beats Hillary, but I think it is by three percentage points, so it's pretty meaningless. Cruz is a very sharp guy, and he doesn't go off the rails as Rubio sometimes does, but I can't see him doing well in a general election. He's not a purple states candidate.

Goofy Dude

03-07-16, 05:01 PM

Two of the latest polls in Michigan shows Trump in the lead with Cruz and Kasich in a dead heat for second with Rubio a distant third.

This is just hilarious. The establishment keeps searching for a candidate to support and they can't find one. Kasich if he could somehow get the nomination, and his only hope would be at a brokered convention, might actually be the tougher one for Hillary to beat. He takes his home state, Ohio, and that's a biggie. He's boring as hell, but he could hold his own in a debate and take some purple states.

Captain Steel

03-10-16, 10:19 PM

I just realized... without the Professional Wrestling type taunts and sophomoric histrionics, these guys are really boring.

Sexy Celebrity

03-10-16, 10:20 PM

I can't ever pay attention to those debates for long.

Goofy Dude

03-11-16, 12:16 AM

I didn't catch it all, but what I heard everyone was on their game, but since he is in the lead and this was his best debate performance, the winner was...

DONALD TRUMP

Monkeypunch

03-11-16, 12:27 AM

I didn't catch it all, but what I heard everyone was on their game, but since he is in the lead and this was his best debate performance, the winner was...

DONALD TRUMP

And the loser is....America!

How the hell can anyone get behind this guy? He's willfully ignorant about every facet of running a country, he can't give a single specific about what he'd do as president ("Make America great again" isn't an answer), and he's racist, xenophobic, reckless, and he's emboldening fringe extremists to be louder and more active. Trump is just a bad person all around, and I'd like to think that the GOP would say "enough," and not let this clown run just because they don't want to lose. It would be better to lose with honor and regroup for the next election than get behind the KKK's favorite candidate.

Yoda

03-11-16, 10:42 AM

seanc

03-11-16, 10:56 AM

I didn't catch it all, but what I heard everyone was on their game, but since he is in the lead and this was his best debate performance, the winner was...

DONALD TRUMP

Who said this was his best debate? I guess if you take into consideration he hasn't had a good one then maybe.

TONGO

03-11-16, 05:30 PM

Just a 2 minute video of Jimmy Carter saying it plain and true.

https://www.facebook.com/TheOther98/videos/1266059523405023/

Captain Steel

03-11-16, 05:59 PM

Yeah, it's painful watching him try to BS his way through policy talk. He clearly knows nothing about any of this stuff. Didn't know what the nuclear triad was, didn't know which visas they were talking about, doesn't understand that judges do not sign bills, doesn't understand how Common Core is constructed, and so on.

The personal/cultural stuff alone is disqualifying, but even if you ignored all of it, he's just ridiculously overmatched. And I don't mean in a can-you-name-the-President-of-Kurdistan kind of way. I mean on almost every single topic he's asked about.

It seems his plan is to just let "the best people" figure stuff out for him and fill him in on the areas he doesn't know (with those areas apparently being pretty vast).

But then again, isn't that what a President does?

I've always been astounded by the fact that a person who has not spent a single moment in military service can become Commander In Chief of the military.

I'm not supporting Trump (at this point I'm leaning toward Cruz), but if he, or anyone else, really employs the "best people", listens to them, and allows the highest ranking military officers to be advisers in the arena of military affairs, then he'll be doing far more than Obama (who seems to ignore many of his military advisers, gets rid of those who actually have plans that end in victory for the U.S., and only listens to those who share a left-leaning liberal & racially / religiously biased opinion).

Yoda

03-11-16, 06:50 PM

I'd be more assuaged by his promises of hiring "the best people" if he'd actually started with his campaign. But they've been bungling even the simplest issues of messaging and consistency, down to typos in press releases. If he hasn't hired the best people to help him win the nomination, I don't have much confidence he'd start after taking office.

seanc

03-11-16, 06:57 PM

Plus a good leader in any area has a level of knowledge and leans on advisors, right? I am going to pull a Trump here, he doesn't seem to know a damn thing.

Goofy Dude

03-11-16, 10:33 PM

Goofy Dude

03-15-16, 10:56 PM

Rubio can now hang out at the beach with Jeb. But Kasich is still in it, winning Ohio. Now he has to win some states where he isn't the governor. And Cruz has to win some blue and purple states. The longer it's a three way race, the better it is for Trump, especially if neither Cruz or Kasich can overcome him in the delegate rich states.

Captain Steel

03-15-16, 11:44 PM

I'm not supporting Trump (at this point I'm leaning toward Cruz), but if he, or anyone else, really employs the "best people", listens to them, and allows the highest ranking military officers to be advisers in the arena of military affairs, then he'll be doing far more than Obama (who seems to ignore many of his military advisers, gets rid of those who actually have plans that end in victory for the U.S., and only listens to those who share a left-leaning liberal & racially / religiously biased opinion).

That's all baloney. Military advisors, even in the Pentagon, are not monolith. It was even reflected in the skewed Hugh Hewitt question at the Miami debate. "If 55% of the military brass advise.." 55%? A little more than half? A President makes an important decision like that by asking for a raise of hands? During the Cuban Missile Crisis the overwhelming opinion Kennedy got from those guys was to immediately bomb Cuba. Kennedy didn't do it.

Kennedy had both military and political experience. (He was a highly decorated war hero and had commanded multiple boats during WWII.)
A good example of why only someone with military experience should be put in charge of the military.

I propose a 1-year mandatory military service for all able-bodied citizens after high school - that would help solve the problem of anyone being able to grow up to be President and still having at least a rudimentary knowledge of the military before they step into the role of Commander In Chief.

Camo

03-15-16, 11:49 PM

Who do you think are your five best presidents Cap?

Just curious: i'm not American so take my opinion for whatever but i'd go:

1.Lincoln
2.FDR
3.TR
4.Washington
5.Truman

Captain Steel

03-15-16, 11:57 PM

Who do you think are your five best presidents Cap?

Just curious: i'm not American so take my opinion for whatever but i'd go:

1.Lincoln
2.FDR
3.TR
4.Washington
5.Truman

MY best Presidents or THE best Presidents?

You're not American? That explains some things! ;)
(Where you from?)

I haven't really studied much Presidential history, so I'm not sure about best Presidents. I will say that the most unsung & un-celebrated founding father was our 2nd President John Adams. The man has no statues or monuments in Washington D.C., he's not on any money, yet he practically started the whole thing! :)

Camo

03-16-16, 12:09 AM

Most underrated President: James Buchanan

Guy deserves some respect!

Goofy Dude

03-16-16, 03:05 AM

Truman fired MacArthur and the Korean War went better without him.

Gatsby

03-16-16, 03:55 AM

Most underrated President: James Buchanan

Nah, it's Warren G. Harding. He technically never caused a huge problem.

Goofy Dude

03-16-16, 04:49 AM

To give the question a straight answer, my pick for most underrated would be Chester Alan Arthur.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/19653/chester-alan-arthur-underrated-president-three-first-names

Goofy Dude

03-16-16, 04:57 AM

Yoda

03-16-16, 10:38 AM

If it were just about money, perhaps, but he shows no interest in even the broadest aspect of policy. When question, he doesn't even seem to know much about the immigration plan he's endorsed on his site (he endorses the Sessions plan, but blatantly flipped on one of its core visa provisions). He's not going to magically start caring about this stuff if he wins, and no amount of delegation can compensate for such rampant disinterest at the top.

seanc

03-16-16, 12:07 PM

George Bush, great president or the greatest president?

Goofy Dude

03-16-16, 01:10 PM

What?????

Trump says he won't attend Utah debate next week. Probably smart move. Why give the other two a shot at taking him down when he's on a roll? Is there any point to future debates if he's not in it?

Slappydavis

03-16-16, 03:17 PM

Some political levity: Magic Resolution (http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-resolution-in-congress-to-recognize-magic-as-a-rare-and-valuable-art-form?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link)

I was going to take the internet to task for another round of making fun of magicians...but god damn the resolution language makes me laugh.

Whereas magic is timeless in appeal and requires only the capacity to dream;