6th HOF-Late Spring [Archive]

Sane

02-15-15, 06:32 PM

I've seen Late Spring a couple of times before, and watching it again just now it moves me just the same. Like many films from the great Japanese directors it's a masterclass in how to say so much without words. It's so still and reserved, but the performances from Setsuko Hara and Chishu Ryu have a depth about them that you don't need explanation, you can read their emotions and their struggles in their faces.
Thanks Sane for nominating this fine film :)
Probably the thing I'm most excited about with this nomination is not so much people getting to experience a film by my favourite director - it's that people get to experience Ozu, Ryu and, in particular, Hara all at once. Ozu is one of the few directors that had "chemistry" with his actors that can be seen on screen. You almost feel the love for Hara and it translates to the viewer.

One of the good things about many of the great Asian directors is they found their actors and just used them over and over which meant that they developed together and created much more engaging films because of it. Ozu with Hara & Ryu, Kurosawa with Mifune, Zhang Yimou with Gong Li, Wong Kar Wai with Tony Leung & Maggie Cheung and so on. It's probably quite common in European movies as well but I have less experience with those - Godard and Karina comes to mind as does perhaps Fellini and Masina. Some American directors like Scorsese have done this with great results also.

Glad you still like it Christine - it's such a great film :)

gbgoodies

02-17-15, 04:01 PM

This is what I wrote about Late Spring in my logbook thread, (without the spoilers).

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1257488#post1257488

I liked this movie a lot, and I think it's one of the better movies that was nominated in this HoF. The story is simple, yet emotional, and it's very well-written. The characters are all likable people who are easy to relate to, which makes it easy to care about them. The visuals are beautiful, and the movie flows along nicely.

I was a little bit disappointed that we never got to see the possible future husband, who was supposed to look like Gary Cooper. He piqued my curiosity as soon as they started talking about him, and I wanted to see if he really did look like Gary Cooper. However, this did not take anything away from the movie itself.

I liked the ending, and the twist that we learn at the very end, but it was kind of sad to see the father's loneliness at the end, after his daughter got married, and he revealed that his impending marriage was just a ruse to get his daughter to wed.

This is a very good movie, and I'm glad it was nominated in the Hall of Fame.

3.5+

Miss Vicky

02-17-15, 07:30 PM

rauldc14

02-17-15, 07:33 PM

We'll Miss Vicky didn't like it much, so I'll probably love it.

Sane

02-17-15, 08:40 PM

I guess I'll be the lone voice of dissent here.

I didn't care for this one. Don't get me wrong, the acting was solid and the film was beautifully shot, but I found myself very much disliking the selfish and childish Noriko and that ruined my enjoyment of the film.

rating_3
To me that was the point of the character and her development was part of what makes the movie great. She realised that she was being childish in regards to her feelings on re-marriage and even asked for forgiveness from her father for being selfish. To me the character developed to see her own failings and became a "better person". That kind of character development is what makes her interesting - and compares interestingly to Hara's Norikos in the following two movies - particularly Tokyo Story where she was kind throughout the film.

Whilst Ozu's films appear simple on the surface the characters in them all have their own journey and in this one Noriko's journey made her less selfish ... which ultimately ended up bringing great sadness to her father. It's those things that help to make his movies great IMO.

BTW, when I first read your post I thought it said "childless" and I thought "wow, that's a bit harsh" - glad I re-read it or my reply would have been quite different ;)

rauldc14

02-18-15, 01:03 PM

Late Spring

Wow, wow, wow! An exceptional film! Ozu has done it yet again for me. As I already stated, Tokyo Story is one of my favorite foreign films of all time. Ozu manages here to give a story that is rather simple on the surface, such unique depth and emotionally attached you to the characters. Hara and Ryu give excellent performances in perhaps the best father daughter relationship that I have seen come to life on screen. The twist at the end was magnificent, it goes to truly show the bond that the two of them had and that Shukichi knew his daughter inside and out. Ozu is a master of telling a story with a purpose. He makes us think about the personal relationships in our life and what they mean to us while watching his films. While Noriko can be seen as being selfish, in a way I can connect to how she was feeling as it ultimately means that family comes first to her. She just was too insecure to realize that sometimes families can extend and you need to be aware of these situations. Shukichi knew it would be the best for her, as he stated that he is not getting any younger and in a way it seemed like he did not want her to be like himself when she was older. I think in the end Shukichi was able to find solace and comfort in the events that had just occurred. But my goodness, Ozu is the man. I think I liked Tokyo Story a tad more, but Late Spring wasn't far behind. An excellent film and an excellent nomination by Sane. This film has made it mandatory that I get to more Ozu in the very near future.

4.5+

Sane

02-18-15, 02:30 PM

Really happy that you liked it Raul. I knew that you liked Tokyo Story but I was unsure if you'd like this as much. You've summed up the character development well and it's a feature of Ozu films. He himself never married and lived with his mother his whole life and I feel like all of his movies are somehow related to that so the parent/child relationships are explored with great depth.

Interestingly there were rumours about him and Hara and I believe she never married either. She's actually still alive I think but has been somewhat of a recluse for the last 50 years.

Swan

02-18-15, 02:35 PM

Swan

02-18-15, 07:49 PM

Much better experience this time around than I have previously had with Ozu. The framing is something that somewhat bothered me with my first two attempts at Ozu. In the past I always had a hankering to see Ozu move the camera. This time, I kind of accepted that he wouldn’t and tried to appreciate what he was trying to do, and I was able to see the beauty of his composition much, much clearer.

I also liked how Ozu seems to show the beauty of simple life in all its complexity. He shows the struggles and highlights of life, things we all face - the depth of everyday life. Instead of showing the actual wedding, Ozu decides to show the moments leading up to the wedding, and the moments after the wedding. The small moments, even. I think he wanted to capture the importance of those small moments.

My experience with Ozu films has gotten better each time I have seen one, so I can see future viewings leading to even higher ratings. For now, I give Late Spring a rating_4+

rauldc14

02-18-15, 07:58 PM

Really glad you liked it, and I agree that he looks at simple things and still makes them feel important. Next week I'm going to watch another Ozu because he is 2 for 2 with me.

sumantra roy

02-19-15, 05:51 AM

hello101

02-19-15, 06:00 AM

3.5 out of 10?

sumantra roy

02-19-15, 08:46 AM

3.5 out of 10?

mistake mistake...it was meant to be 3.5 out of 5 actually :)

seanc

02-27-15, 12:55 PM

So I watched my first Ozu last night and it was not the spiritual experience I was hoping for. I have heard many on this forum praise Ozu's camera work. When his shots are wide I am totally on board. I think he knows how to fill those shots beautifully they are detailed and interesting. I also like how he lingers for a moment after a scene is essentially over. Lets us watch the characters eat for a moment or he focuses in on their facial expressions. Unfortunately that is only half the story. The other half comes in when the characters are interacting through dialogue. I think the way he cuts back and forth with the actors looking not into the camera but just past it is really distracting. When I first noticed it I tried to take my mind off it quickly but it is constant and intentional so it is impossible to overlook. I think this plays into another area where I am going to disagree with most about Ozu. I didn't think the acting was good at all. I felt like every emotion was forced from the actors. This may be because of the camera angles, I don't know, but it felt that way to me. I also had an issue with the score. I was trying to think of a word to describe it and the best I could come up with is it felt overly sentimental. Its a small gripe because it is not over used, but again I felt it while watching.

All these things are evident to me in a scene that is probably regarded as one of the most emotional in the film but that I couldn't wait for it to end. It is when the daughter and father are at a musical event together. The music was distracting but I am really not supposed to be paying attention to it, I am supposed to be feeling the weight of what is going on with our protagonist. She is struggling with leaving her father to get married. She has just found out her father's intentions and is probably feeling alienated. The scene goes on for a goid bit and if I was feeling what this character was feeling it would probably be my favorite scene in the movie.

seanc

02-27-15, 12:57 PM

Sorry guys only half of what I wrote posted. I am going to try and get it back.

seanc

02-27-15, 01:01 PM

Don't know how I did that. That's what I get for posting from my phone. It seems coherent but probably misinformed. I will post my other thoughts later.

rauldc14

02-27-15, 01:07 PM

Ozu for you seems like Tarantino for me:D.

I've seen 3 Ozu, and he's on the fast track to being a top 10 director for me.

christine

02-27-15, 01:18 PM

interesting you felt like that Sean. I'll wait to read the other part of your post before I reply :)

seanc

02-27-15, 01:44 PM

I went on to talk about my favorite scene in the movie. It is when the daughter and father are packing to leave. I felt real weight in the dialogue during that scene. I felt sympathy for both characters. I just wish there were more scenes like that to enjoy. I also don't want to come acrosx as all my problems with the film being from a technical perspective. I really think there was a generational and cultural divide that kept me at arms length for much of the time.

I have thought a lot about this movie despite my general apathy towards it. Maybe that is a good sign for when I move forward with Ozu. I mostly think it is because I know how much he is loved and I wish I could share in that. I felt like I was watching The Godfather or Citizen Kane for the first time and I am going to be one of those contrary opinions that is so obviously wrong. Such is the life of a film fan though, we all have those greats that just don't work for us personally. I mean there are people around here that don't like Wes Anderson, can you imagine?

Swan

02-27-15, 01:46 PM

Don't give up on Ozu, Sean. He definitely grew on me. I had problems with his technical style at first too, but after a while I accepted what he was doing and tried, and succeeded, to appreciate it for what it was. I also love how he tells his stories - focusing more on the simple moments than the big events.

seanc

02-27-15, 01:49 PM

I will watch Tokyo Story after all my HOF viewing.

christine

02-27-15, 02:47 PM

There's people who don't like Wes Anderson? no really?? :p

Back to Late Spring. I think you could be right about the generational and cultural barrier stopping you enjoying the film more Sean. I had to learn to 'get' Japanese films on a deeper level, but the rewards are brilliant :)
There are cultural differences specially in the older films as these ones are. We have to remember this is just after the war and there's a battle of cultures for younger Japanese who see the lifestyle of the occupying Americans contrasting with their parents and grandparents life with their very intense feelings of honour and pride. The younger people see the American way of life brought over by the GI's and who can blame them for wanting more after the privations of the war*. You can see that represented in the film by Noriko's friend's house with her western furniture and clothes.

Some people find Noriko's smiling incongruous when she's obviously angry and hurt, but again this is a cultural thing with Japanese people tending not to express negative emotions in their facial expressions so cover with a smile. I've read that the Japanese pay a lot more attention to the eyes when they study peoples faces and you can see that in the scene you mention where Noriko and her father are at a concert, That would play a lot different in a Western film, we'd probably see tears and a lot more emotion in her face as she looked at the woman she expected her father to marry. We have to use that long scene to take time to think of the turmoil she must be feeling.
Because she was in public she would never have shown emotion like upset or disappontment and you see how Ozu plays that against the background of the Noh play where traditionally the characters all wear blank faced masks. The other scene where she's packing up from holiday would have them more at ease so able to talk more openly although respect for her father would mean she wouldn't want to upset him unduly.

I think you have to think a different way when you watch films like this, and even some contemporary Japanese films will have you in silence contemplating what's happening rather than have it happening for you if you know what I mean!

*It was a little like that in Liverpool during WWII. American GI's brought chewing gum, sweets and fruit for the children living around the docks like my mum and dad. 'Got some gum chum?' they used to ask them :D My mum always remembered a box of big shiny red apples given to their class by an American. The kids carried the apples around all day, too amazed to eat them!

rauldc14

02-27-15, 02:53 PM

I've definitely hit cultural barriers in some of the foreign films I've seen. But for whatever reason, Japanese films are the foreign I've responded to the most positively so far.

seanc

02-27-15, 02:57 PM

All good points Christine. Thanks for responding so thoroughly. I definitely never felt "lost" during the movie. I felt like I could see what he was going for in each scene, I just didn't feel the weight of it, if that makes sense? I will certainly be open to exploring him further. For a film fan I also have a tendency to put a lot of emphasis on dialogue, probably too much. I think that is why I love the Andersons and Tarantino so much. Their writing has as much of an impact as their visuals for me. I need to learn to get lost in a film a little more, I think that will help me with films where the dialogue isn't as dense. I think I am getting better at it then a film like this comes along that leaves me cold, no that's the wrong word. This is not a cold film. Maybe ambivalent is more fitting.

christine

02-27-15, 03:18 PM

Makes perfect sense Sean, and that's a good way of putting it - 'getting lost in a film' . I definately remember having to learn to do that years ago when I first got into Japanese cinema, and also other more 'difficult' films. I used to think of it as 'relaxing into it' as I used to find it hard to switch off the feeling that I should be understanding more than I did. I used to be intimidated by reading reviews of films where I got nothing like the reviewers were on about, but I guess it's like anything - the more you do it the easier it is :)

Sane

02-27-15, 03:20 PM

Christine's post has summed things up much more eloquently than I could but i'll add a couple of points.

I find that any director that has their own style is somewhat of an "acquired" taste. I've never been a big fan of Anderson and even during Moonlight Kingdom I was thinking "ok Wes, we've seen this all before. You can do quirky now do something different!" But I was missing the point. That's his style and it provides the framework in which he can tell his story and develop his characters. Once I got it I loved The Fantastic Mr Fox & The Grand Budapest Hotel. Ozu has his style and if you like it there is a lot of great movies to enjoy. I've seen 14 and the lowest rating I gave was 4-.

Sean, I think you'll probably like Tokyo Story more and if you have time check out his three 60s movies - whilst the style is the same the focus changed more to the parents rather than the children. You may like those better.

Also, you mentioned the talking into the camera thing. That's probably the only thing about Ozu's style that I don't particularly like. I always thought it felt a bit awkward.

Guaporense

02-28-15, 03:31 AM

There's people who don't like Wes Anderson? no really?? :p

Back to Late Spring. I think you could be right about the generational and cultural barrier stopping you enjoying the film more Sean. I had to learn to 'get' Japanese films on a deeper level, but the rewards are brilliant :)
There are cultural differences specially in the older films as these ones are. We have to remember this is just after the war and there's a battle of cultures for younger Japanese who see the lifestyle of the occupying Americans contrasting with their parents and grandparents life with their very intense feelings of honour and pride. The younger people see the American way of life brought over by the GI's and who can blame them for wanting more after the privations of the war*. You can see that represented in the film by Noriko's friend's house with her western furniture and clothes.

Some people find Noriko's smiling incongruous when she's obviously angry and hurt, but again this is a cultural thing with Japanese people tending not to express negative emotions in their facial expressions so cover with a smile. I've read that the Japanese pay a lot more attention to the eyes when they study peoples faces and you can see that in the scene you mention where Noriko and her father are at a concert, That would play a lot different in a Western film, we'd probably see tears and a lot more emotion in her face as she looked at the woman she expected her father to marry. We have to use that long scene to take time to think of the turmoil she must be feeling.
Because she was in public she would never have shown emotion like upset or disappontment and you see how Ozu plays that against the background of the Noh play where traditionally the characters all wear blank faced masks. The other scene where she's packing up from holiday would have them more at ease so able to talk more openly although respect for her father would mean she wouldn't want to upset him unduly.

I think you have to think a different way when you watch films like this, and even some contemporary Japanese films will have you in silence contemplating what's happening rather than have it happening for you if you know what I mean!

Asian people are more reserved, introverted and hence their movies are also like that. It's a more subtle culture. Specially Ozu in that regard he is the most subtle among the more famous Japanese directors. Though that depends on the person's own personality, I believe more introverted individuals would enjoy Asian movies more than extroverted persons would. The covering emotion with a smile is very common thing I think more people do that than Japanese woman do that and it's common in many Asian films, TV series, manga and novels.

I don't think I ever had to learn to get Japanese films though. I watched so much Japanese TV when I was already 5 (live action and animated) that I identify with these films as much as I do with American films, which I also began watching when I was very little. Also modern Japanese live action films are more influenced by the visual language of manga, in comparison to 1940's-1950's-1960's movies which are more traditional in their direction. I think they are more accessible in some sense but modern ones are faster/more direct and more similar in that way to contemporary hollywood movies.

Ozu's films in particular have been enormously influential in terms of direction over Japanese films, TV and even manga. Late Spring was the first Ozu film I watched and I had it into my top 10 when I first did my top 100 films list here.

Guaporense

02-28-15, 03:41 AM

Ozu as a director will be in my top 20 but none of films (including this one, I have seen 7) will be in my top 100. An editing faculty (whom I very much looked up to) of our film school always encouraged us to see more of Ozu...and she kept saying Ozu and Mizoguchi (among the Japanese filmmakers) are more important than Kurosawa or anyone else for that matter

Mizoguchi is more popular in the west than in Japan. There even Kinoshita can be regarded as more influential/important than Mizoguchi, who is like Watanabe and Kon (in animation), one of these guys who are popular among western fans of Japanese film/TV rather than the Japanese themselves.

While Ozu is enormously influential, it's no question that Kurosawa is more important than Ozu. Kurosawa can be regarded as perhaps the most influential Asian artist of the 20th century.

...my Ozu days started from there (around 2005)...i have liked all his films, but I am yet to find a masterpiece...I think I am not up to it yet, I need more time and growing up...having said that Late Spring is a very good film (it was my second viewing and it was worth it)

I loved Late Spring, Tokyo Story and I Was Born, But.. the most, at least the ones whose specific scenes are so memorable. An Autumn Afternoon is also great.

Guaporense

02-28-15, 03:46 AM

I used to think of it as 'relaxing into it' as I used to find it hard to switch off the feeling that I should be understanding more than I did.

Relaxing to this type of movie is absolutely essential. For their subtle charm to capture you. Though Late Spring is like Ozu's prototype film of his most famous phase and hence can be regarded as the most accessible of that set of films.

Guaporense

02-28-15, 03:51 AM

All this love for Ozu makes me especially upset that I wasn't taken by him when I saw Tokyo Story and Early Summer. I really want to appreciate him but for some reason I have found it a bit difficult. I have nothing but respect for him as an artist and for all intents and purposes I should love his work, I don't get why I don't.

Watch his "children's" films:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2014-11-26/japanese-film-pros-ranked-their-top-movies-to-show-kids-with-ghibli-titles-sweeping-the-top-3/.81484

My Neighbor Totoro
Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind
Laputa: Castle in the Sky
Seven Samurai
Good Morning (お早よう)
The Castle of Cagliostro
Spirited Away
Twenty-Four Eyes
Tenkōsei (Exchange Students)
Otoko wa Tsurai yo ("It's Tough Being A Man")
I Was Born, But... (later remade as Good Morning)
Typhoon Club
Whisper of the Heart
The Girl Who Leapt Through Time
Night on the Galactic Railroad

Anyway, I'm excited to see this movie, it's another opportunity to try and appreciate Ozu.

I find it interesting how people who didn't like Ozu's films manage to never insult them. When I forced people here to watch a couple of anime films, including a Miyazaki film (who is generally revered as much as Ozu is in Japan), some insulted them really violently, even the ones who are very well regarded (like the extremely venomous reaction for the Utena film). A little humility and respect would be appreciated.

rauldc14

02-28-15, 04:54 AM

Miyazaki got insulted? That's just wrong.

christine

02-28-15, 05:06 AM

I'd recommend Twenty Four Eyes too. It's a lovely film :)

bluedeed

02-28-15, 05:24 AM

I find it interesting how people who didn't like Ozu's films manage to never insult them. When I forced people here to watch a couple of anime films, including a Miyazaki film (who is generally revered as much as Ozu is in Japan), some insulted them really violently, even the ones who are very well regarded (like the extremely venomous reaction for the Utena film). A little humility and respect would be appreciated.

I think it's that the people who don't like Ozu to start tend to self-doubt rather than doubt the artist, and that the reaction tends not to be strong in the case of those who don't like him. Obviously it's not fair, but it is what it is

Thursday Next

03-02-15, 06:45 PM

I appreciated that this was a quiet, slow drama about a family, nicely shot.

I think I feel similarly to seanc, in that I never got completely absorbed in the film though. Towards the end it was quite moving, but I did find it quite hard to get into it, and to fully understand the characters and their motivations. This isn't to say I disliked it, but I didn't feel it was as amazing as others seem to.

Some people have described Noriko as selfish, and indeed she describes herself as selfish, but I don't think I agree. I felt sorry for her, with everyone around her pressuring her to marry a man she barely knew when she clearly didn't want to. Was she supposed to jump at the chance to marry a stranger and leave her father alone?

The other thing that bothered me was how suddenly she changes her mind about second marriages being 'foul' because she meets the friend's new wife and she's nice. It seemed she went from having an extreme negative opinion to being fine with it pretty quickly.

The glimpses we get of the wider world and the American influences on Japan at that time are interesting, perhaps all the more so because they are just glimpses and it isn't at all what this film is 'about', but it shows the influences and the society which the characters are living in.

This reminded me a bit of a film I watched quite recently, 35 Shots of Rum, also about a grown-up daughter living with her father and being reluctant to leave him, so much that I wonder now if that film was influenced by Late Spring.

Sane

03-03-15, 12:19 AM

Asian people are more reserved, introverted and hence their movies are also like that. It's a more subtle culture.
Wow ... you've never been to an Asian country have you? Now, let me tell you what South American people are really like ...

;)

bluedeed

03-03-15, 01:03 AM

Wow ... you've never been to an Asian country have you? Now, let me tell you what South American people are really like ...

;)

That was a burn! That statement has so many things wrong with it. The conglomeration of 4 Billion people into narrowly defined stereotypes and personalities learned via movies is one of the most ludicrous (and yet so commonplace) things a person can do.

christine

03-03-15, 02:04 AM

The other thing that bothered me was how suddenly she changes her mind about second marriages being 'foul' because she meets the friend's new wife and she's nice. It seemed she went from having an extreme negative opinion to being fine with it pretty quickly.

I had the feeling that she convinced herself otherwise for the sake of her father using the example of her friends new wife.

Thursday Next

03-03-15, 08:30 AM

I do think shortly after that when she is talking to her father before they go to sleep that she is overly bright and enthusiastic to the point that it seemed she was trying to convince him (or to convince herself) that she was really okay with everything.

christine

03-03-15, 11:55 AM

Yes I think so too Thurs. the last thing she would want to do is upset her father if she thought he was happy at getting married again. Poor Noriko, I always think after watching this how she would feel once she was married and then realised they'd pulled a fast one on her.

Thursday Next

03-03-15, 05:46 PM

I'd like to hope that against the odds she's happy, but it does seem like maybe it is just a really sad movie where she agrees to the marriage because she thinks that's best for her father and he pushes her into it because he thinks that's best for her, but neither of them are happy.

cricket

03-19-15, 12:59 PM

I watched this last night, predicting that I would enjoy it about the same as I did Tokyo Story, which I thought was terrific. It turns out that I enjoyed Late Spring more. I think it's true about Guap calling Late Spring "more accessible", as Tokyo Story had a lot of focus on the elderly couple, and was a bit longer. This one just seemed fresher to me.

If I told 100 people today what Late Spring was about, I'd be very surprised if anyone would be interested in seeing it. It seems to me that the director made a whole lot out of a little, and I think the end result is quite an accomplishment. The movie had me a little confused in the beginning. When I first saw the father and daughter, I assumed that this was a sort of prequel to Tokyo Story, and I was trying to figure out where the wife was. Once I realized that this movie was a separate entity, I was able to relax and enjoy.

A lot of times when I watch foreign movies, I have a hard time being able to tell how good I think the performances are. This was no exception at the start, but it was just a matter of time until I got used to the different physical and vocal mannerisms. Once I got about 40 minutes into the film, I started to feel that I was watching exceptional acting, and nothing happened after that to change my mind.

The characters are certainly interesting. For a while, it struck me as odd that Noriko would so often have this huge smile on her face. After some time, I came to the belief that she wore that smile in order to make other people happy. I did not think she was selfish at all, just the opposite in fact. There was some talk of her past, with some type of illness and maybe other hardship that had me very curious. The movie didn't go into any more detail, but I believe that's probably a good thing as it may have shifted the focus. Regarding Thursday's point about Noriko changing her mind about men remarrying, I totally bought into her doing that. I believe that she simply had a preconceived notion based on how she imagined the situation to be, rather than having any first hand knowledge or experience. I believe this is quite common. Once she actually saw in person, the guys's wife, and how in love and happy they were together, as a good person, there would be no other option but for her to change her mind. I found it completely believable. I do wonder a little bit about some of the character's motivations. I thought it possible that a part of Noriko not wanting to get married, may have been because she was in love with the guy who was engaged. I also wondered why everyone so desperately wanted her to marry, when she so clearly didn't want to. In the end, I believe that it is likely that everyone just wanted the best for her.

I thought it was filmed beautifully and I loved the musical score. I don't think I reached the full emotional potential, most likely because I do not relate at all to any of the characters, but I certainly did feel it. This is not the kind of movie that I generally seek out, or the kind of movie that I would watch over and over again. I do think that for what it is, it is very close to perfect, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. For now, I give it a conservative rating of 4.5

Sane

03-19-15, 03:34 PM

Glad you liked it so much Cricket. Love what you wrote but particularly the stuff about the acting and Hara's smile. When i first started watching Ozu movies I struggled a bit with the acting of Ryu in particular but once you get into it you find out that he is a wonderful actor - he just has his own style. Hara's smiling is a big part of her acting style - partly because she has such a beautiful smile but also because she can convey a huge range of emotions with it.

Thanks for watching it ... now add Ozu's 60s films to your watchlist ;)

Thursday Next

03-19-15, 04:38 PM

I was considering watching Late Autumn or An Autumn Afternoon. From the imdb summaries they seem to have very similar plots to Late Spring, although perhaps they play out differently.

cricket

03-19-15, 05:32 PM

I will definitely watch his 60's films.

Sane

03-19-15, 05:45 PM

I was considering watching Late Autumn or An Autumn Afternoon. From the imdb summaries they seem to have very similar plots to Late Spring, although perhaps they play out differently.
IMO Late Autumn is the best of his three 60s movies.

Ozu usually explored the same basic themes and there are occasions where he made very similar movies - or in one case that I remember he re-made his own film. The Late Spring idea was obviously very personal for him as he himself lived his whole life with his single mother and being torn between finding a wife and staying with her was possibly something he thought about a lot.

From memory I think An Autumn Afternoon was the movie where I thought he had perhaps explored this one too many times. It's a very good movie in it's own right but having watched lots of his movies prior I felt it perhaps didn't provide anything new.

Personally I love his style and his characters and I find the exploration of family relationships fascinating so the similarities between his movies is usually a good thing for me.

Gatsby

03-19-15, 07:55 PM

Whoa. All of these good reviews from members make me really excited for this nomination. The only Ozu I've seen is Tokyo Story and it instantly made my Top 100. Watching sometime tomorrow.

And something tells me Sane is going to win again... :p

Thursday Next

03-20-15, 06:34 AM

IMO Late Autumn is the best of his three 60s movies.

Then I will watch that one.

The Late Spring idea was obviously very personal for him as he himself lived his whole life with his single mother and being torn between finding a wife and staying with her was possibly something he thought about a lot.

I had read about that. It's interesting that he changed this in his films into a daughter living with her father. That must change the dynamic quite a bit, I would have thought. I would imagine he had more choice over the matter - 'finding a wife' - as opposed to Noriko who has a husband found for her, like it or not.

And something tells me Sane is going to win again... :p

Yeah, I think we have a winner.

Gatsby

03-22-15, 01:47 AM

Late Spring

Ozu does it again for me. After his masterpiece Tokyo Story instantly became a favorite my expectations for the rest of his work became super high. Late Spring didn't let down my feelings at all.

Late Spring starts off slow, but quickly gains speed. The pacing is perfect and the brevity of 108 minutes is one of the things I liked. And the time flows because the film never spends a lot of time to explain much, it just lets it flow. The characters aren't explained throughly like other films but it's clear how what they are experiencing and what kind of personality and beliefs they have. Sort of like Sonatine, it uses Japanese culture that is somewhat based on not honestly showing what someone feels in order to keep harmony, and uses it to actually create better emotions.

Great nomination by 2-time winner Sane, Late Spring is guaranteed a high spot.

4.5

Guaporense

04-07-15, 11:43 PM

Wow ... you've never been to an Asian country have you? Now, let me tell you what South American people are really like ...

;)

Well, Chinese people told me that: In the US people are more explicit, in China they don't say everything they mean. They are more subtle. Korea and Japan are different from China, though the people I meet from these countries also appear less extroverted and explicit than Brazilians/Americans/Europeans.

You are an Australian white men, aren't you? You are to Asia what I am to Africa, in geographical terms.

bluedeed

04-07-15, 11:46 PM

The idea that "Asian" people are more reserved is a stereotype, not a reality. As someone who is living in an Asian country currently, I haven't noticed a difference in the amount of extroverted and introverted people. People talk to strangers less, but that's because I'm in a big city where basically everyone is a stranger, it's city culture not "asian" culture

Guaporense

04-07-15, 11:49 PM

True it's a gross generation. However, I still have the impression from the East Asian people I have meet. I should have said "East Asia" fist not "Asia". Singapore (which is the place you said was residing in, right?) is not in East Asia, and I also suspect people from such cosmopolitan globalized city to be more extroverted than East Asians in general.

Edit: Though thinking a bit more about it, there is the fact that people on average are the same: 1000 people from any city in any region of the world tend to have similar distributions of mental characteristics/attributes. Though cultural factors also influence the outcome of these basic factors, yielding differences on the mean variables.

bluedeed

04-08-15, 12:05 AM

Singapore is very influenced by the western world, moreso than China or even Japan. However, it's definitely more similar to East Asia than it is to America or the west. The customs and traditions are mostly derived from Chinese, Indian, and Malay culture. And many people I know here at uni are not Singaporean but international students from China or South Korea. Given the vast amounts of varying cultures in such a place (and a degree of mixing that makes clear distinctions nearly impossible), if I'm to evaluate a person (which feels wrong), I'm much more likely to evaluate them based on the Briggs Myers personality types than based on their culture.

Sane

04-08-15, 01:08 AM

Well, Chinese people told me that: In the US people are more explicit, in China they don't say everything they mean. They are more subtle. Korea and Japan are different from China, though the people I meet from these countries also appear less extroverted and explicit than Brazilians/Americans/Europeans.

You are an Australian white men, aren't you? You are to Asia what I am to Africa, in geographical terms.
That's relevant how?

Guaporense

04-08-15, 05:04 PM

@ Sane, You claim that I cannot talk about characteristics of Asian culture because I am South American. You apparently claim that I don't know any Asian countries or people.

@ Bluedeed, I personally know people from China, India, Korea, Japan, all major regions of Brazil (Brazil is probably the most geographically heterogeneous country in the world except India perhaps), US, England, Poland, Russia, Italy, France, Switzerland, Australia, Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Mexico, Spain among a few other regions. Culturally I get the general impression that Asians are more introverted on average while Latinos (Mexicans, Spanish and South Americans) are more extroverted than the average. This impression is further supported by statements of Chinese who said explicitly to me that in China people are more subtle and less explicit than Americans are (who say what they think more explicitly). And is also further supported by some statistical data and also by my own impression with East Asian works of fiction versus Western works of fiction. American movies are more explicit about things vis East Asian movies partly due to cultural reasons.

Guaporense

04-08-15, 05:09 PM

Yeah, I think we have a winner.

Late Spring is also my favorite live action of this HOF.

Sane

04-08-15, 05:29 PM

@ Sane, You claim that I cannot talk about characteristics of Asian culture because I am South American. You apparently claim that I don't know any Asian countries or people.

Can you post a quote where I "claimed" either of those things? I'll save your time looking because obviously I didn't. So, again how is me being a white Australian and "geographical" similarities between me and Asia and you and "Africa" in any way relevant?

You made a silly generalisation about over half the world's people when as far as I know you have never actually been to any of those countries. All I did is call you out on it :)

Guaporense

04-08-15, 05:42 PM

Can you post a quote where I "claimed" either of those things? I'll save your time looking because obviously I didn't. So, again how is me being a white Australian and "geographical" similarities between me and Asia and you and "Africa" in any way relevant?

You made a silly generalisation about over half the world's people when as far as I know you have never actually been to any of those countries. All I did is call you out on it :)

There was a misunderstanding. I had the impression that you mean't that you actually know these countries and that I didn't. But you never said that explicitly and apparently you didn't mean that.

I never mean't Asian for "over half of the world's people", but East Asian, which only includes 1.5 billion people or 22% of the world's population.

Yes, I do believe East Asians are on average more introverted and subtle than Westerners (Europeans, Americans, Brazilians, etc) in general. I have formed that impression from a wide range of information sources, including claims by Asians themselves, Westerners who lived in Asia, my own impressions and some reading on the subject. They are more introverted in general and also more hardworking and less hedonistic.

Guaporense

04-08-15, 05:50 PM

By the way, there exists a scientific sub-discipline about cultural differences in psychology, called cross-cultural psychology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-cultural_psychology

http://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1015&context=orpc

Interested to check if they document my impression that East Asians are more introverted than Westerners on average (i.e. from a culture that values introversion more).

Sane

04-08-15, 06:40 PM

There was a misunderstanding. I had the impression that you mean't that you actually know these countries and that I didn't. But you never said that explicitly and apparently you didn't mean that.

I never mean't Asian for "over half of the world's people", but East Asian, which only includes 1.5 billion people or 22% of the world's population.

Yes, I do believe East Asians are on average more introverted and subtle than Westerners (Europeans, Americans, Brazilians, etc) in general. I have formed that impression from a wide range of information sources, including claims by Asians themselves, Westerners who lived in Asia, my own impressions and some reading on the subject. They are more introverted in general and also more hardworking and less hedonistic.
Again you are saying the same things without ever having been to those countries despite people who have been to that part of the world disagreeing with you. I've been to China (including Hong Kong), Singapore & Malaysia and my wife is Chinese and your impression does not match with reality in those countries - it matches with how people from those countries often act when they are out of their comfort zone in western countries.

If I was to make a huge generalisation from what I have seen first hand it would be that people in Asia are less reserved than people in Australia.

jiraffejustin

04-09-15, 12:58 PM

I don't know anything about psychological differences in cultures, but I know Late Spring is a pretty good movie.

christine

04-09-15, 01:17 PM

Again you are saying the same things without ever having been to those countries despite people who have been to that part of the world disagreeing with you. I've been to China (including Hong Kong), Singapore & Malaysia and my wife is Chinese and your impression does not match with reality in those countries - it matches with how people from those countries often act when they are out of their comfort zone in western countries.

If I was to make a huge generalisation from what I have seen first hand it would be that people in Asia are less reserved than people in Australia.

I've been to China to stay with my daughter in laws family, and this is only my own anecdotal experience , but the Chinese people I met, family and strangers speak a lot more straightforwardly than we Brits do. They will observe things about you and ask you things that British people would think or wonder but not say outright. I've observed this in my daughter in law too. Like I say that's just my own experience.

bluedeed

04-09-15, 01:26 PM

Guaporense

04-10-15, 01:47 AM

Again you are saying the same things without ever having been to those countries

I never said I have never been to those countries, do not assume that I haven't. :D

despite people who have been to that part of the world disagreeing with you.

Not the Chinese I know though. They asserted explicitly that they are more subtle than Americans are. You think you know China better than the Chinese?

I've been to China (including Hong Kong), Singapore & Malaysia and my wife is Chinese

Did you ask her if she thinks Chinese are more introverted than Australians or Americans?

and your impression does not match with reality in those countries - it matches with how people from those countries often act when they are out of their comfort zone in western countries.

You might be right. They might appear shy because they don't speak English well.

If I was to make a huge generalisation from what I have seen first hand it would be that people in Asia are less reserved than people in Australia.

Australians might be more reserved than other westerners, they are probably more reserved than Brazilians are. The only Australian I know is very reserved, but he is a mathematician, so there is selection bias going on :D.

Anyway, I might change my claim to Japan instead of East Asia. Like this comment:

https://bungotaketa.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/introverted-in-japan/
Introverted In Japan
Posted on September 12, 2013 by bungotaketa
I immediately took a liking to Japan when I came here for the first time, in 2004. It wasn’t the food or the culture or the nightlife, although all those things appealed to me. I just felt comfortable here, more so than I had in America, and I decided that I wanted to make this country my home.

People often asked me why I liked Japan so much. For a long time, I had a hard time putting it into words. Aside form the things I mentioned above I also like the people, the attention to detail, the premium placed on punctuality, and the consideration and respect built into the language and culture. But there was still more to it and I just couldn’t figure out what it was.

But at some point it hit me: I’m an introvert and Japan is a country that rewards introverted behavior. Suddenly I knew why I never felt very comfortable in the US, where extroverted behavior is praised. I tried to fit in and be the extrovert but it wore me out. I didn’t really know why, just that things that made other people happy often made me feel like I was trying hard to be happy but still failing all the time. Being an American is exhausting.

Now I live in a country that frowns on aggressive behavior and emotional outbursts. People are encouraged to think before they speak to avoid hurting other people’s feelings and to avoid taking too many risks. There’s much less interruption here too, I’ve noticed, something that is particularly annoying to introverts. I have often said that if I were going to design my own country, it would resemble Japan. Of course, there are things that bug me but all in all I like it a lot better than America.

Of course, no person is all introvert or all extrovert, and no country is either. Japan is a group-based society and for the introvert, groups can be extremely tiring. Work places offer very little privacy; desks are arranged in islands so everyone can see everyone else. Also, people are expected to put the group’s needs ahead of their own, which often means doing things together after work when you’d rather be at home in the bath with a book. I know that after a full week of interacting with literally hundreds of different people it can be disastrous if I’m not able to get my weekend alone time to recharge.

I’m lucky in that as an outsider and visiting teacher I’m not held to the same expectations as regular staff. This weekend I’ll be going to three middle school sports days plus a drinking party. On Sunday there’s an elementary school sports day and then Monday I have a taiko performance. This is way more interaction on the weekend than I am usually subjected to. I might have to skip the Sunday event as I could be really cranky next week if I’m not able to be by myself at least one day.

This is the life of an introvert. While Japan is a pretty good place for introverts, it’s still a human society and as such there are social obligations. I’m not ready to move to an isolated log cabin just yet.

According to: http://lonerwolf.com/most-introverted-countries-in-the-world/, Japan is among a set of good countries for an introvert.

They list Japan among the countries, all the others are European. Maybe Japan is specially introverted among East Asian countries.

Guaporense

04-10-15, 01:55 AM

How about we don't externalize what we understand as our personal reality onto others' reality? How about rather than trying to find a system to understand everything, we understand the limits of our observation and accept that some things are impossible to organize into a personal logical system? How about rather than find affirmational "proof" of our preconceptions, we continue to vary and nuance our understanding of these preconceptions?

A good thing is to use hard data instead of personal impressions, which are not very reliable. I had found some hard data to support my position but the internet magazine didn't appear to be cite it's own sources though.

bluedeed

04-10-15, 01:57 AM

What does "hard data" even mean for something like this?

Sane

04-10-15, 02:01 AM

You think you know China better than the Chinese?

Guap, grow up :rolleyes:

Did you ask her if she thinks Chinese are more introverted than Australians or Americans?

We discussed it at length whilst we were there - and she has discussed it with her sister who has lived in the US for 15 years.

Anyway, I might change my claim to Japan instead of East Asia.

According to: http://lonerwolf.com/most-introverted-countries-in-the-world/

They list Japan among the countries, all the others are European.
Asia to East Asia to Japan ... perhaps you just meant the people of Fukuoka :D

Guaporense

04-10-15, 02:07 AM

Guap, grow up :rolleyes:

Why do you need to attack me? Considering you lack the capacity to discuss things with people without attacking them, it's you who needs to learn that people disagree.

We discussed it at length whilst we were there - and she has discussed it with her sister who has lived in the US for 15 years.

What was her conclusion?

Asia to East Asia to Japan ... perhaps you just meant the people of Fukuoka :D

No, I never mean't that the whole Asia consisted of introverted cultures.

Guaporense

04-10-15, 02:11 AM

What does "hard data" even mean for something like this?

- Data from social experiments.

- Data on allocation of time among population samples between solitary and social activities.

Guaporense

04-10-15, 02:19 AM

Another report:

http://naryordinary.com/introversion-across-cultures-by-phillip-hinnant/

Personality type geeks such as myself may have noticed a sudden media interest in those of us who identify as introverts.

One could speculate any number of reasons for this phenomenon, but the sudden shift in the world workforce as a result of the global economic crisis seems to be the most obvious to me.

This shift in thinking (or at least media recognition) is especially remarkable coming from the United States, a land that practically invented the competition driven world we live in today. The word introvert might well have been considered a handicap that need be rehabilitated as recently as the 1960s.

Even as a child born in 1979, my introversion was a source of shame for myself and, to some extent, to my family. It was not until I discovered the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) in the late 1990s that I first realized that it was a blessing and not a curse.

Extrovert Domination

Introverts are not common, making up an estimated 25-30% of the United States population. This statistic in of itself is the first clue as to why introverts are faced with social disadvantage.

For example, job interviews are tailor made for extroverts and can be incredibly intimidating to introverts. I have personally blown countless interviews because I simply could not properly sell myself verbally.

This phenomenon manifests itself in almost every social aspect of our lives. Ever been at work and feel as if you can’t get anything done because those darned extroverts are talking your head off? We lonely introverts have been forced to live in an extroverted world, which by chance is what I believe has been our saving grace and has led to what I call the introversion renaissance.

The Renaissance is Before Us

Since introversion was first identified by Carl Jung, introverts have been using this understanding to get better at working in (at least coping with) the extroverted world and even pass on this knowledge to introverted offspring (which I have done myself). It seems to me that this growth is leading to a new kind of introvert, one who has been made aware of his or her environment and, most importantly, one who is acutely aware of the capabilities associated with introversion.

You extroverts reading this must by now be looking for the punch line where I say introverts make better employees and leaders. There are arguments out there that introverts make better leaders, but I do not believe this at all and think that each individual workplace may benefit by having either.

However, considering the many changes in the global workforce and the fact that there are so many more extroverts, it is easy to conclude that many workplaces will be looking for something different.

Japan, Land of the Rising Introvert

Japan is quite the personality opposite from the United States. Here, extroversion is frowned upon and introversion is not only embraced, but expected.

As an expat living in Japan for most of the last 13 years, I was confronted with the realization that personality is highly cultural. When I say cultural, I say so with caution as Jungian personality theory states that personality is innate. I believe that the world’s cultures recognized these innate differences and placed different values on each. As a fan and follower of Japanese culture, I am fascinated with the question of why the Japanese place value on introversion.

Organizationally, Japan is arguably the best in the world. When chaos ensues, the
Japanese maintain order as recent natural or man-made disasters in Japan have evidenced. Of the four MBTI dichotomies, I place introversion as the major contributing cultural factor to the fortitude of the Japanese.

According to Jungian theory, introverts tend to reflect and think before acting while extraverts are the opposite and may act or speak first and then think. This Japanese fortitude goes beyond the simple preference of introversion because the Japanese place social value on such attributes. The result is a highly reflective and contained people naturally adept to order in the face of chaos.

Are we in the United States starting to realize this potential?

It is important for me to note here that an argument could be made that while there are more introverts in Japan, surely there are millions of extroverts. While there are millions, the cultural common denominator in Japan is introversion. Introversion is a key to Japanese fortitude.

I believe this renaissance will progressive slowly. Extroversion has its place and serves its purpose well for human kind.

However, as an introvert, I am happy to see that humanity is ready to embrace all of its miraculous tools and use its people more efficiently and effectively to create a better world.

Phillip Hinnant is an Education Services Coordinator living in Japan with his wife, the beautiful Tomomi (with him in the picture above) and their two equally beautiful kids. He and I met last summer when we were both working to become Myers Briggs Certified Professionals. Phillip recently began a Facebook page to further explore our MBTI type – we’re both INFPs or introverted intuitive feeling perceiving types. – SBJ

I have read many times the characterization of Japan as being relatively introverted culture (which means a culture that stimulates introverted behavior, which is already innate from individuals). Though I made a false generalization to the rest of East Asia. China probably has regions that are more introverted than others (considering the size of the country I think it might be more heterogeneous than a small country like England or Australia (in pop.)), which might explain discrepant accounts.

Sane

04-10-15, 02:25 AM

Why do you need to attack me? Considering you lack the capacity to discuss things with people without attacking them, it's you who needs to learn that people disagree.

Again, grow up.

What was her conclusion?

That it's a complex thing and sweeping generalisations really ignore reality. China is a large country with lots of differences between areas and also large diversity between social groups. She believes that, as I said, out of their comfort zone Chinese people can be very shy but even in western countries when in a position of power (management for example) they are less introverted than western people and are perhaps more domineering.

In China you can go into almost any park and hear people singing Chinese opera with a microphone & amplifier, see dancing - Chinese traditional, ballroom and line - and doing Tai Chi and various other martial arts. Chinese people are generally exceedingly outgoing in my experience and I have to say that it was similar case in Malaysia.

My wife has pointed out that western people need alcohol to get up and sing at Karaoke - Chinese people do it all the time completely sober.

No, I never mean't that the whole Asia consisted of introverted cultures.
I know ... we are slowly getting closer to what you meant apparently.

Guaporense

04-10-15, 03:11 AM

Again, grow up.

Interesting, out of the many internet forums I have been this is the only one where people have told me to grow up. I have been to many fights in many other forums. In some places I have been called a Nazi, in others, an evil person, in others, an idiot, in others, gay, in others, Eurocentric and racist.

I notice that these adjectives refer more to the other's people's misconceptions and ignorance than about me. In the forum where I was called a Nazi it was because I was refuting certain misconceptions about WW2, I was called evil because I was analyzing genocides objectively, I was called Eurocentric because I was analyzing the obvious historical reality that European cultures usually achieved economic/technological/military superiority over any other regions in the world, including Asia.

For instance, it's obvious that you say "grow up" here because of my appreciation for the artform of animation, which is associated with immaturity among ignorant people. Well, if I still need to grow up, by my age, 27, and my already substantial life experiences, I would say that I will be unable to do so.

That it's a complex thing and sweeping generalisations really ignore reality. China is a large country with lots of differences between areas and also large diversity between social groups. She believes that, as I said, out of their comfort zone Chinese people can be very shy but even in western countries when in a position of power (management for example) they are less introverted than western people and are perhaps more domineering.

This is a different thing.

In China you can go into almost any park and hear people singing Chinese opera with a microphone & amplifier, see dancing - Chinese traditional, ballroom and line - and doing Tai Chi and various other martial arts. Chinese people are generally exceedingly outgoing in my experience and I have to say that it was similar case in Malaysia.

My wife has pointed out that western people need alcohol to get up and sing at Karaoke - Chinese people do it all the time completely sober.

That's because singing is a bigger part of East Asian culture than Western culture. In Japan people go to karaoke way more often than Westerners do (that's why it's called Karaoke).

My conception of Japanese being more introverted is mainly based on reports by people that they are an more introverted culture, such as the 2 reports I posted before, this is another:

Quora User, born in Japan, kinda want to live there again
3 upvotes by David A. LaSpina, Anonymous, and Quora User.
Personality trait is not always meaningful in absolute sense, so it is quite difficult to compare introvertedness/extrovetedness of people across different cultures meaningfully. In a sense, within a nation, you could say for every introvert there is always an extrovert, provided that you can define the average/median for what the degree of openness in personality means.

Having said that, there has been some psychological studies that have ranked people from different countries by their personality traits (by asking them questions that are designed to categorize them into different personality types). Japan often is categorized into the introverted category in such studies.

There is an anecdote about Japanese living in the United States as well. Some psychologists have noted a trend in Japanese-born people living in the United States, where noticeably more people of this background tended to be diagnosed as being very depressive (to a serious degree on the typical American scale), even though that did not always accompany outward symptoms or the difficulty of carrying on with normal life expected of people with severe depression. (This, I remember reading in an article by one of the most prominent popular Japanese psychologists, Hayao Kawai, who commended the US psychological practices from noticing such a trend and quickly accommodating the people from different backgrounds.)

In short, the measure of personal trait tends to reflect the Western perspective (because those who conduct such studies tend to have the Western background), so inter-cultural comparisons are often difficult. But if you are seeing this through the Western eyes, then I would not be surprised for people to find Japanese more introverted compared to people from other countries.

However, introversion is generally not viewed as a desirable trait even in Japan. Those who are familiar with the internet culture over there know the frequent use of terms like リア充 ("ria-jyu" -- roughly translates to jock/cheerleader type who enjoy real life to the fullest due to their extroverted personality) and コミュ障 ("comyu-sho" -- those who have problems with interpersonal communication real life), and the former is often used by the latter to express their envy/contempt of having satisfying life outside of the confinement of the internet.

You wan't some hard data on the matter? How about data on romantic relationships and sexual experience, more shy and introverted people are less likely to get into romantic relationships. From wikipedia:

In 2010, the 14th Japanese National Fertility Survey was conducted by the National Institute of Population and Social Security Research. Singles between the ages of 18-34 who are not involved in a romantic relationship and do not want one amounted to 28% for men and 23% for women. It was also found that 28% of men and 26% of women aged 35-39 had no sexual experience.[4] However, the possibility of response bias should be taken into consideration with these figures.

Clearly, in most Western countries the proportion of people aged 35-39 which had no sexual experience is lower than 28-26%.

I know ... we are slowly getting closer to what you meant apparently.

I now mean Japan. Though I still suspect that China, Taiwan and Korea are also more on the shy/introverted cultural spectrum compared to Brazil and the US.

bluedeed

04-10-15, 03:12 AM

Why are you pulling reports from white people living in these places, Guap? You just said impressions aren't reliable and you criticized Sane for apparently thinking he knows China better than the Chinese (as if understanding China is a possibility). From these, shouldn't you be using data conducted by Chinese rather than accounts from foreigners. Certainly, if anyone is to speak for the Chinese, it's the Chinese

Sane

05-01-15, 05:28 PM

I had read about that. It's interesting that he changed this in his films into a daughter living with her father. That must change the dynamic quite a bit, I would have thought. I would imagine he had more choice over the matter - 'finding a wife' - as opposed to Noriko who has a husband found for her, like it or not.

I've been thinking about this a lot since you posted it and I'm not sure of the answer. Bluedeed will probably know more than me but I've wondered if using a female lead character was simply a device to make a movie with more depth - you can depict both vulnerability and strength with a female character which is perhaps harder to do with a male character.

I've also wondered if it was simply that he met Setsuko Hara and decided to base his stories around her.

Something else I've been thinking about his movies is how the focus changed. His early films did mostly focus on a son rather than a daughter but they were mostly children. I recently watched The Only Son which was a great movie with similar themes but the focus was on a male rather than female child.

He then progressed to twenty something people - mostly women. This is the "late spring"/summer phase of both his career and the lives of the characters. As we got to the end of his career we had the autumn phase where the focus was back to male chapters but this time middle aged and usually with adult daughters.

I guess we missed out on the winter phase of his career because he died quite young. This is a real shame because we got a good glimpse of how he understood elderly characters with Tokyo Story.

Let's hope this can get this thread back on track ;)