Film Noir HoF...Hall of Fame

[Citizen Rules]

https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=89585
Welcome All! to the special: Film Noir Hall of Fame


There will be one week for anyone who wishes to join and send in nominations. Anyone can join the fun up till January 8th 2015.

Please make sure your nomination fits into what is generally called a Film Noir. Noir is not a genre, it's a style so it's open to interpretation. For this Hof we will go with the classic definition of Noir:

Hollywood's classical film noir period is generally regarded as ranging from 1941 to 1958

Members:
Citizen Rules
Seanc
Frightened Inmate No. 2
Gbgoodies
Eramus Folly
Neiba
Sane
Kaplan
Friendly Mushroom!
Christine
Daniel M
Holden Pike
Pussy Galore


The Noir Nominations:
https://pics.filmaffinity.com/out_of_the_past-955399232-mmed.jpg
Out of the Past (1947)....Erasmus Folly


https://media.fstatic.com/AZSfAPB-OO_YzuI-wX7UEKpJOc8=/fit-in/290x478/smart/media/movies/covers/2016/07/o-3o-homem_t6795.jpg
The Third Man (1949)....Seanc


https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=66153
Pickup on South Street (1953)....Citizen Rules


https://img.tradera.net/images/145/254658145_35743568-0ac4-41f1-827c-13a4dde91602.jpg In a Lonely Place (1950)....Sane


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3yz23SCzVgc/UPS_S7uG_aI/AAAAAAAB-gM/cA56wl67btM/s400/1944_laura_20thcenturyfox.jpg
Laura (1944)....Gbgoodies


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515BAVMGYSL.jpg
Sunset Boulevard (1950)....Neiba


https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=66152
Shadow of a Doubt (1943)....Friendly Mushroom


http://johngushue.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451f25369e20168e73ce436970c-pi
The Wrong Man (1956)....Frightened Inmate



http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91Coifhbu-L._SY550_.jpg
Double Indemnity (1944)....Christine


https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=66155
The Big Combo (1955)....Kaplan


https://www.filmsite.org/posters/ladyfromshanghai.jpg
The Lady from Shanghai (1947)....Daniel M


https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=66156
The Set-Up (1949)....Holden Pike


https://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=66154
Sweet Smell of Success (1957)....Pussy Galore

[Citizen Rules]

Here's a link to a list of Film Noirs at IMDB, it's sorted by A to Z.
If you read through the list you're bound to have seen some of these.

IMDB has 589 Noirs listed. There might be some that are older or newer than the classic Noir period, so choose a film with a release date from 1941-1958. In a rare case that some of these are mismarked Noirs, please have a second choice in mind.

http://www.imdb.com/search/title?at=0&genres=film_noir&sort=alpha&title_type=feature

You can also sort that list by user ratings, movie meter, etc.

[seanc]

Very excited for this.

[Citizen Rules]

Me too, I've actually laid in bed thinking of which great Noir I'm going to nominate. Not the best way to get a good nights sleep.:D

[seanc]

So I have seen probably half a dozen of that list. No deep cuts from me so I apologize up front.

[Citizen Rules]

No problem Sean, I'm not an expert, just enthusiastic. I'm hoping besides some cool nominations we can all discuss and learn from each other what Noir is and isn't, but mostly have fun.

[seanc]

Yeah, what Noir is? That is a great way to get the conversation going. It confuses me a bit. What I do know is that when I have watched something the past couple of years, with a couple exceptions, that is defined as Noir I have loved it. One of those exceptions, Night Of The Hunter, I was shocked to find out is considered Noir. It just didn't feel of the same mold as the others. I suppose I was defining it by the tropes. One man trying to solve a mystery. A femme Fatale. The fedora.

How do you guys define it?

[Citizen Rules]

This might sound like I copied and pasted it but I wrote this myself:

Film Noir came out of the WWII conflict. After the aftermath of WWII, a more pensive, fatalistic mood arose in America. Before WWII light heartened films, screwball comedies and escapist movies were popular. After the war a darker vision of movies became prevalent. At the time they were referred to as melodramas. It was someone in France who noticed that the mood of American films had become very black or noir.

In a Noir the protagonist is usually not the hero, but was someone who through an event or outside influences was doomed, often by their own behavior or life choices. That was coupled with a style of cinematography that came out of the German expressionist movement of the early 1930s, which was characterized by asymmetrical composition and low key lighting making use of dark space and shadows. Not all Noirs are filmed in a Noir style but do have a Noir style story.

[seanc]

Very nice. Makes sense and broadens the spectrum quite a bit. I will send my nom later tonight.

[Erasmus Folly]

The term "Film Noir " is from the French and means literally "Black Film".

It is credited to be first used to describe Hollywood films shown in France in the summer of 1946 by Nino Frank; films such as John Huston's The Maltese Falcon, Otto Preminger's Laura, and Billy Wilder's Double Indemnity.

I agree with Rules that it is not so much a genre as it is a style of film moods and themes and cinematography. Originally it was used to describe films of the 1940's and 50's but has expanded to include some films of the 1930's and up to the present day. There can be "neo-noir" and combinations such as mixing "film noir" with "sci-fi" in a film like Blade Runner.

If you browse the internet or read some books or essays devoted to 'film noir" you will find all kinds of opinions on just what "film noir" is or isn't, many contradicting each other. But the original definition works well - a film that deals with dark themes and attitudes. Usually it is about a man returning home from the war and finding difficulty in readjusting to the changed circumstances of life, caught up in things that he is not able to control, his inability to find the ability to bring sense and order to his life, and this loss of control leads to his destruction.

There may be many recurring elements in this style such as low-key lighting, dark urban scenes shot at night, a "femme fatale". cigarette smoke used to create a visual effect, shuttered blinds that cast shadows on a wall, etc.

As one watches more "noir" films one begins to get a feel for what is not easily defined. Personally, I have always found an affinity for the classic noir films. An excellent collection of essays can be found in Shades of Noir by Joan Copjec (Verso 1993).
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/8c/5a/5f/8c5a5f08d277354f8cdaa844ea883e0b.jpg

[Kaplan]

I would personally disagree that Noir is not a genre. I'd call it a sub-genre of the crime genre. Another influence on the development of the Noir was the hard boiled pulp fiction from the 30s and 40s. Later the dark Noir style began to influence mainstream films that weren't otherwise Noir-ish.

This should be fun. Now I just need to narrow down a nomination...

[rauldc14]

I want to join butbut I've hardly seen anything. I may just play along and watch without nominating.

[seanc]

I want to join butbut I've hardly seen anything. I may just play along and watch without nominating.

Me neither but I want to see a lot more. Watch along. I want you to see mine for sure.

[Citizen Rules]

Rauldc, everyone is certainly welcomed to play along without nominating. But I would hope you would find a Noir film and nominate it:). Some of the classic Noirs are by famous directors and/or have well known actors in them.

[JayDee]

I'm on the fence about whether to sign up for this or just to play along without nominating so if I don't manage to watch everything it won't matter.

Like Sean I wasn't really sure what noir was for a while. I thought it was very much restricted to private detectives, femme fatales, murder and voiceovers that said things like "her heart was as cold as an ice cube in the middle of winter". I think it was an idea I got very much from sitcoms and shows that spoofed the genre. It was only later on I discovered that noir expanded to things like Sunset Boulevard.


For anyone who's interested there was a BBC4 documentary a few years back which I believe was meant to be very good. I think I kind of watched it at the time but don't really remember. You can watch it here -

Rules of Film Noir documentary - Dailymotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x25i1tm_the-rules-of-film-noir_shortfilms)


Also here is Roger Ebert's guide to film noir

Film noir is . . .

1. A French term meaning "black film," or film of the night, inspired by the Series Noir, a line of cheap paperbacks that translated hard-boiled American crime authors and found a popular audience in France.

2. A movie which at no time misleads you into thinking there is going to be a happy ending.

3. Locations that reek of the night, of shadows, of alleys, of the back doors of fancy places, of apartment buildings with a high turnover rate, of taxi drivers and bartenders who have seen it all.

4. Cigarettes. Everybody in film noir is always smoking, as if to say, "On top of everything else, I've been assigned to get through three packs today." The best smoking movie of all time is "Out of the Past (http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-out-of-the-past-1947)," in which Robert Mitchum (http://www.rogerebert.com/cast-and-crew/robert-mitchum) and Kirk Douglas (http://www.rogerebert.com/cast-and-crew/kirk-douglas) smoke furiously at each other. At one point, Mitchum enters a room, Douglas extends a pack and says, "Cigarette?" and Mitchum, holding up his hand, says, "Smoking."

5. Women who would just as soon kill you as love you, and vice versa.

6. For women: low necklines, floppy hats, mascara, lipstick, dressing rooms, boudoirs, calling the doorman by his first name, high heels, red dresses, elbowlength gloves, mixing drinks, having gangsters as boyfriends, having soft spots for alcoholic private eyes, wanting a lot of someone else's women, sprawling dead on the floor with every limb meticulously arranged and every hair in place.

7. For men: fedoras, suits and ties, shabby residential hotels with a neon sign blinking through the window, buying yourself a drink out of the office bottle, cars with running boards, all-night diners, protecting kids who shouldn't be playing with the big guys, being on first-name terms with homicide cops, knowing a lot of people whose descriptions end in "ies," such as bookies, newsies, junkies, alkys, jockeys and cabbies.

8. Movies either shot in black and white, or feeling like they were.

9. Relationships in which love is only the final flop card in the poker game of death.

10. The most American film genre, because no society could have created a world so filled with doom, fate, fear and betrayal, unless it were essentially naive and optimistic.

[Citizen Rules]

I love that! Ebert rules.

[Erasmus Folly]

I'm on the fence about whether to sign up for this or just to play along without nominating so if I don't manage to watch everything it won't matter.

Like Sean I wasn't really sure what noir was for a while. I thought it was very much restricted to private detectives, femme fatales, murder and voiceovers that said things like "her heart was as cold as an ice cube in the middle of winter". I think it was an idea I got very much from sitcoms and shows that spoofed the genre. It was only later on I discovered that noir expanded to things like Sunset Boulevard.

Also here is Roger Ebert's guide to film noir
Film noir is . . .

1. A French term meaning "black film," or film of the night, inspired by the Series Noir, a line of cheap paperbacks that translated hard-boiled American crime authors and found a popular audience in France.

2. A movie which at no time misleads you into thinking there is going to be a happy ending.

3. Locations that reek of the night, of shadows, of alleys, of the back doors of fancy places, of apartment buildings with a high turnover rate, of taxi drivers and bartenders who have seen it all.

4. Cigarettes. Everybody in film noir is always smoking, as if to say, "On top of everything else, I've been assigned to get through three packs today." The best smoking movie of all time is "Out of the Past (http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-out-of-the-past-1947)," in which Robert Mitchum (http://www.rogerebert.com/cast-and-crew/robert-mitchum) and Kirk Douglas (http://www.rogerebert.com/cast-and-crew/kirk-douglas) smoke furiously at each other. At one point, Mitchum enters a room, Douglas extends a pack and says, "Cigarette?" and Mitchum, holding up his hand, says, "Smoking."

5. Women who would just as soon kill you as love you, and vice versa.

6. For women: low necklines, floppy hats, mascara, lipstick, dressing rooms, boudoirs, calling the doorman by his first name, high heels, red dresses, elbowlength gloves, mixing drinks, having gangsters as boyfriends, having soft spots for alcoholic private eyes, wanting a lot of someone else's women, sprawling dead on the floor with every limb meticulously arranged and every hair in place.

7. For men: fedoras, suits and ties, shabby residential hotels with a neon sign blinking through the window, buying yourself a drink out of the office bottle, cars with running boards, all-night diners, protecting kids who shouldn't be playing with the big guys, being on first-name terms with homicide cops, knowing a lot of people whose descriptions end in "ies," such as bookies, newsies, junkies, alkys, jockeys and cabbies.

8. Movies either shot in black and white, or feeling like they were.

9. Relationships in which love is only the final flop card in the poker game of death.

10. The most American film genre, because no society could have created a world so filled with doom, fate, fear and betrayal, unless it were essentially naive and optimistic.

So true. A timeless definition of Film Noir.

And just as a reminder, CNN will broadcast Life Itself, a remarkable documentary about Roger Ebert, a man who wrote so beautifully and insightfully with grace and humor about the medium we all love and adore.

************8*********:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

[Kaplan]

Roger Ebert's description of Noir explains why I love it so much. Particularly:

3. Locations that reek of the night, of shadows, of alleys, of the back doors of fancy places, of apartment buildings with a high turnover rate, of taxi drivers and bartenders who have seen it all.

Another thing about Noir that should be noted is the role fate plays in the events and usual ruin of the characters. In part it's like a Greek tragedy where a character's main flaw is the cause of their eventual downfall. The other part is things happen beyond their control, chance encounters, something minor is forgotten that leads to their ruin, unfortunate coincidences, or somebody showing up at the wrong time. And God forbid a character gives in to a positive impulse, such as helping a stranger or friend in need, because you can be sure it will lead to their ruin.

[Kaplan]

I do have a question. I'm thinking of nominating a movie I haven't myself seen, but which is rated highly and is on the site's Noir list. Am I allowed to nominate it, or must I nominate a movie I've seen? I can certainly do that, if that's the requirement, or part of the spirit of the Hall of Fame process.

[Daniel M]

http://www.theyshootpictures.com/noir250noirs1.htm

That list should help :)

[Godoggo]

I do have a question. I'm thinking of nominating a movie I haven't myself seen, but which is rated highly and is on the site's Noir list. Am I allowed to nominate it, or must I nominate a movie I've seen? I can certainly do that, if that's the requirement, or part of the spirit of the Hall of Fame process.

I'm going to step in here and answer this. Rules is running this one but as a person who has ran a lot of them, I'd really rather people nominate films they know and love that they think are worthy of being inducted into a Hall of Film:

Just because it has good ratings doesn't necessarily mean you'll personally think that highly of it. If it were to get inducted that would feel off to me had a I been the one to nominate it. I also highly encourage people to do the introduction of their film into the HoF. If the film doesn't mean that much to you, that's going to be hard to do.

Having said that, there is no rule against it. If you are having trouble finding a film to nominate because your not all that familiar with Noir and participated to become more familiar then it's fine. If you do have movies you love within the genre (I know, I know but for the purpose of what I am talking about it it doesn't hurt to use it :)) nominating a movie you love is more in keeping with the spirit of the HoF, but it's not required.

[gbgoodies]

I do have a question. I'm thinking of nominating a movie I haven't myself seen, but which is rated highly and is on the site's Noir list. Am I allowed to nominate it, or must I nominate a movie I've seen? I can certainly do that, if that's the requirement, or part of the spirit of the Hall of Fame process.


I was thinking about the exact same thing. Last night, I was looking through the Noir list from IMDB, and there were a couple of highly-rated movies that looked interesting, with good casts and notable directors, but I've never seen them.

I've been trying to decide if I should watch both of them first, and then decide if I should nominate one of them, or if I should just randomly nominate one of them, or if I should go with a classic movie that many people have already seen.

You guys are the ones who are going to have to watch all the movies, so I'll ask this question:

Would you rather have a movie nominated that is already considered a classic movie, that you may not have realized was Noir, and you've probably already seen at least once, or would you rather have a movie nominated that is highly rated, but it's not considered a classic, and you've probably never seen it?

[rauldc14]

I would nominate something you have already seen. It just makes more sense to me.

[Citizen Rules]

A nomination should have already been watched by the person submitting it. Even if it was years since it was last seen. That's why I posted that IMDB list of Noir movies so that everyone could quickly glance through it and spot movies that they might have seen in the past. I'm sure we've all seen at least one great Noir but we might not realize it was considered a Noir.

Of course there's no way for anyone to know if a person nominating a movie on any Hof or Countdown, has actually seen the movie. Hopefully they have seen it.

[Kaplan]

That's why I asked if it was in the spirit of the game. It may not matter because the movie I was considering is now at the top of my Netflix queue so I should have a chance to see it before the nominations are due. If I end up not impressed with it, I'll go with something else I've seen.

I was thinking about the exact same thing. Last night, I was looking through the Noir list from IMDB, and there were a couple of highly-rated movies that looked interesting, with good casts and notable directors, but I've never seen them.

I've been trying to decide if I should watch both of them first, and then decide if I should nominate one of them, or if I should just randomly nominate one of them, or if I should go with a classic movie that many people have already seen.

You guys are the ones who are going to have to watch all the movies, so I'll ask this question:

Would you rather have a movie nominated that is already considered a classic movie, that you may not have realized was Noir, and you've probably already seen at least once, or would you rather have a movie nominated that is highly rated, but it's not considered a classic, and you've probably never seen it?

For me I don't care if there's a couple nominations that are standard classics I've already seen, but I hope most of the nominations are of the hidden gems variety.

[seanc]

I am always glad to see some great movies I have not seen when I join these. However, to me the HOF is about the best of the best. Personally I would rather have to rank ten great movies I have already seen then to watch ten movies that I haven't but just consider good. I think that happens in the general HOF quite a bit. People are disappointed because their movie isn't received the way they think it should be, but it probably has more to do with the quality it has been up against. I can only think of a couple movies that have been nominated that I consider genuinely horrible.

[Citizen Rules]

I've seen all of the Noir nominations so far submitted and all are exceptionally good.

See the 1st page on this thread as I update it and add the nominations as they come in.

It's not to late to join, it's easy to do and fun. Any questions just PM me.:)

[Kaplan]

I've seen the first four nominations already as well. I've seen Out of the Past once, and I"ve also seen the remake Against All Odds. The other three I've seen three or four times each. They're all favorites, and Pickup on South Street was my next choice for a nomination if the movie I have coming from Netflix doesn't work out.

I'm happy to rewatch all these movies again, but I really am hoping for some nominations I haven't seen.

[Citizen Rules]

Kaplan, I'd like some more people to join so we can have more nominations. Do you know anybody you can recruit.;)

Come on in folks, noir films are very cool. Once you've done this Noir Hof you have bragging rights that you're into Noir:D

[gbgoodies]

I've seen the first four nominations already as well. I've seen Out of the Past once, and I"ve also seen the remake Against All Odds. The other three I've seen three or four times each. They're all favorites, and Pickup on South Street was my next choice for a nomination if the movie I have coming from Netflix doesn't work out.

I'm happy to rewatch all these movies again, but I really am hoping for some nominations I haven't seen.


It might help if you either name some of the better known movies that you've either seen or not seen. Otherwise there's no way for us to know what to nominate that you might not have seen already.

I didn't realize how many Noir films I've seen until I started looking through the list, but I'm still deciding what to nominate, so I'm open to suggestions.

[Kaplan]

It might help if you either name some of the better known movies that you've either seen or not seen. Otherwise there's no way for us to know what to nominate that you might not have seen already.


Because it's not all about me...;) But if you really want to nominate something I've not seen, you can pick something from the site's Noir list that I haven't checked off.

[Kaplan]

Kaplan, I'd like some more people to join so we can have more nominations. Do you know anybody you can recruit.;)


Yeah, this guy....

http://www.theyshootpictures.com/noir250noirs1.htm

That list should help :)

[gbgoodies]

Because it's not all about me...;) But if you really want to nominate something I've not seen, you can pick something from the site's Noir list that I haven't checked off.


No guarantees, but I'll take a look through your list and see if I can find something that you haven't seen yet.

[Citizen Rules]

I just did a real quick look at Kaplan's noir list and I know for sure I've seen these films and they were all good. I considered some of them as my own choice.

Criss Cross
Crossfire
Gilda
I Wake up Screaming
Mildred Pierce
The Narrow Margin
Nightmare Alley
Kiss of Death

[gbgoodies]

I just did a real quick look at Kaplan's noir list and I know for sure I've seen these films and they were all good. I considered some of them as my own choice.

Criss Cross
Crossfire
Gilda
I Wake up Screaming
Mildred Pierce
The Narrow Margin
Nightmare Alley
Kiss of Death


I was thinking about Mildred Pierce because it was just recommended to me on my 2015 Logbook thread. I saw it a long time ago, but I don't remember much about it, so I'm ready for a re-watch of it. If nobody has any objections to that movie, you can put that in as my nomination.

[Citizen Rules]

I love Mildred Pierce (1945) and as it has a woman lead instead of a man, it's quite unique. Another Joan Crawford Noir that I really like is The Damned Don't Cry.

[rauldc14]

After going back and forth with myself I'm going to potentially join this if that's cool.

[Citizen Rules]

Thanks Rauldc!

[Kaplan]

I just did a real quick look at Kaplan's noir list and I know for sure I've seen these films and they were all good. I considered some of them as my own choice.

Criss Cross
Crossfire
Gilda
I Wake up Screaming
Mildred Pierce
The Narrow Margin
Nightmare Alley
Kiss of Death

Criss Cross may be my nomination, so leave that please. It's coming in Netflix.

[gbgoodies]

I love Mildred Pierce (1945) and as it has a woman lead instead of a man, it's quite unique. Another Joan Crawford Noir that I really like is The Damned Don't Cry.


Another movie I was considering is Laura, but I just figured that most people have probably seen it already.

[Citizen Rules]

Kaplan, Criss Cross is yours. If you change your mind before the Hof starts, you can pick another.

I've seen Laura, but only once long ago. I'm happy to watch any of these great Noirs. I need to update my own Noir list, I haven't really done that yet.

[gbgoodies]

I was also considering Ace in the Hole starring Kirk Douglas because it sounded interesting, and it was directed by Billy Wilder, but I haven't seen it yet. It has a good rating on IMDB.

[Kaplan]

I was also considering Ace in the Hole starring Kirk Douglas because it sounded interesting, and it was directed by Billy Wilder, but I haven't seen it yet. It has a good rating on IMDB.

I've always thought people were really stretching the boundaries of Noir by including Ace in the Hole, but it is a really good movie.

[Citizen Rules]

Ace in the Hole is real good! It was loosely based on a real story about a man who became trapped in a cave and a media circus gathered outside. The only reason I know that is because I read a book about caving and it was a famous incident in the 1930s? It's got Kirk Douglas in it, who's always excellent.

Kirk Douglas was especially good in another great Noir, Detective Story (1951) with Elanor Parker. I was talking about that movie a few weeks ago. It sort of plays out like a noir version of Barney Miller as it's mostly set in a police station with a series of events going on. Thelma Ritter's in it too.

[gbgoodies]

I've always thought people were really stretching the boundaries of Noir by including Ace in the Hole, but it is a really good movie.


Well since you've obviously seen it, I won't nominate it, but I've added it to my own watchlist.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

I'll like to join Citizen!

[Citizen Rules]

You're in Mushroom! :)

I got to run for the evening. Mushroom we were just gabbing about cool Noirs, got any to mention?

[gbgoodies]

Ace in the Hole is real good! It was loosely based on a real story about a man who became trapped in a cave and a media circus gathered outside. The only reason I know that is because I read a book about caving and it was a famous incident in the 1930s? It's got Kirk Douglas in it, who's always excellent.

Kirk Douglas was especially good in another great Noir, Detective Story (1951) with Elanor Parker. I was talking about that movie a few weeks ago. It sort of plays out like a noir version of Barney Miller as it's mostly set in a police station with a series of events going on. Thelma Ritter's in it too.


I'm looking into Detective Story now. You compared it to "Barney Miller" and piqued my curiosity.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

You're in Mushroom! :)

I got to run for the evening. Mushroom we were just gabbing about cool Noirs, got any to mention?

Yes I do. But the one I want to nominate isn't on the IMDB film noir list. It's a Hitchcock film. Can I still nominate it? (I have seen it before.)

[Citizen Rules]

I got one more to mention before I hit the road....errr I mean couch (well actually it's a recliner).

Road House (1948)...maybe the only noir that has a Bogie type charater who is a female, that would be Ida Lupino.

[Citizen Rules]

Yes I do. But the one I want to nominate isn't on the IMDB film noir list. It's a Hitchcock film. Can I still nominate it? (I have seen it before.)Probably, just private message me. Catch ya all latter.

[gbgoodies]

Probably, just private message me. Catch ya all latter.


Good night.

[Erasmus Folly]

I've always thought people were really stretching the boundaries of Noir by including Ace in the Hole, but it is a really good movie.
If one accepts the concept that Noir films are those that have dark themes, (as opposed to being shot in a nighttime urban setting, since it is mostly shot in the blazing sun of the Arizona desert), then Ace in the Hole is definitely noir, since it is Wilder's darkest themed movie without a doubt.

And I wouldn't worry if a lot of people have seen the film you pick, since IMO the discussion and critique of a film is the most important thing to me, and while finding something new is important, it is an added bonus, if you know what mean. :cool::cool::cool:

[Frightened Inmate No. 2]

i'm going to watch a noir tonight and if i like it more than the other film i'm considering, i'll use it. i should have my pick submitted by morning.

[gbgoodies]

Criss Cross may be my nomination, so leave that please. It's coming in Netflix.


If you're looking for the movie Criss Cross from 1948 starring Burt Lancaster, it's scheduled to air on Turner Classic Movies this Sunday (tomorrow) at 10:15AM EASTERN TIME.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTINGS FOR THE CORRECT TIME IN YOUR TIME ZONE!

[Citizen Rules]

Burt Lancaster was in several excellent noirs, including a couple I was considering. I've liked him in just about every movie I seen him in.

[Daniel M]

I'll join then. I've been a bit unreliable with these things recently and have been frustrating with the lack of movies I have been watching, but I think noir is the type of thing I want to be watching more of, I'll give it a go.

[Kaplan]

Laura and Sunset Boulevard are two more films I've seen multiple times. They're both great, though I'm weird in that I actually prefer Where the Sidewalk Ends to Laura. Both movies were directed by Otto Preminger and both star Dana Andrews and Gene Tierney. I always try to recommend it when I can.

[Citizen Rules]

Gene Tierney has that quiet 'inner conflict' that makes her seem deep and a great Femme Fatale.

http://classiq.me/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/laura-19441-e1320511402217.jpg

Come to think of it there's lots of great femme fatale in noir

[christine]

Got mine sorted :)

[seanc]

Glad to see your participating Christine, even if you did nominate something that I may like more than mine. The four that I have seen so far are absolutely fantastic. Can't wait to get started.

[cricket]

Great looking set of nominees you guys got over here. I would've joined but I don't want to overdo it, but I will be reading for recommendations.

[christine]

Glad to see your participating Christine, even if you did nominate something that I may like more than mine. The four that I have seen so far are absolutely fantastic. Can't wait to get started.

Sean I absolutely love The Third Man. What a film :)

[seanc]

Sean I absolutely love The Third Man. What a film :)

I love Double Indemnity but Edward G Robinson makes it next level for me. His scenes are so damn good.

Edited because I am dumb and Mark is smart.

[christine]

How does this work then? This is the first HoF I've nominated in. Do we watch the films in order , and all of us together?

[Gatsby]

How does this work then? This is the first HoF I've nominated in. Do we watch the films in order , and all of us together?

Order doesn't matter and the films don't have to be watched together. :)

But don't trust me that much, I'm new to the HoF thing too. :D

[gbgoodies]

How does this work then? This is the first HoF I've nominated in. Do we watch the films in order , and all of us together?


Someone more experienced can correct me if I'm wrong, but this should be correct:

You can watch the movies in any order that you would like. We don't watch them together, but we discuss them on this thread as we watch them, so after you watch each movie, you come back here and tell us your thoughts about the movie.

MAKE SURE THAT YOU WRAP ANY SPOILERS IN SPOILER TAGS. To do this, highlight ALL of the words that you want hidden in the spoiler tags, then click on the red exclamation point (!) in the menu bar in the Reply box. A box will pop up, and you type a very short description of your spoiler that will be seen on screen in place of the spoiler itself.

This is an example of a Spoiler tag, and how it will look in the thread.

As the thread moves along, others who have seen the movie will join in and discuss the movie with you. Just remember to continue to use spoiler tags for the people who haven't seen the movie yet.

After you have watched all of the movies, you will send Citizen Rules a private message with your ranked list of the movies in the order that you liked them, (best to worst). The votes will be calculated, and eventually one movie will be declared the winner.

[Citizen Rules]

How does this work then? This is the first HoF I've nominated in. Do we watch the films in order , and all of us together? Pssst...it's my first HoF too...but don't tell anybody;)

I was going to post the full rules when we start, which will be as soon as we get the last movie nomination in. But I'll go ahead and post them latter today.

Gatsby and Gbgoodies are both right:)


Watch all the movie nominations, in any order that you like.
There's one week time per movie to watch it. BUT you can watch more than one week if you want.

[Citizen Rules]

So here's how this works.
We're all nominating what we think is the best of classic Film Noir.

Watch all the movie nominations, in any order that you like.

There's 1 week given per movie to watch it, which means the final voting will be done in about 11 weeks. BUT you can watch more than one a week if you want. This could wrap up faster, it depends on how fast we watch the movies. But no one should feel rushed, there's plenty of time.

When you watch a nomination post your thoughts on it on this thread. It doesn't have to be a review. Others then discuss the movie too. Even those who are not part of the Noir Hof are encourage to join in the discussion.

After all the movies have been watched everyone ranks the movies in order from #1 being the most deserving of the HoF, to #11 being the least deserving.

Here's the cool part! What we do here in the Noir Hof will matter!
The Noir nomination with the most points will be inducted into the MoFo Movie Hall of Fame.
http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=34788&highlight=Movie+Hall+of+Fame

There's also a chance that at some point there might be a Hof List that would be included here:
http://www.movieforums.com/lists

We'll start as soon as the last nominations come in.:)

[Friendly Mushroom!]

So is it okay I watch none one week and three the next?

[mark f]

Any way you want to as long as you're done on time. :)

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Thanks

[Citizen Rules]

Yup, what Mark said.

Every movie that is added to the HoF...gives +1 week viewing time. So we have 11 movies = 11 weeks total time. But watch them when you want and in any order. But you don't have to do only 1 a week. I might watch 2 a week.

[gbgoodies]

Yup, what Mark said.

Every movie that is added to the HoF...gives +1 week viewing time. So we have 11 movies = 11 weeks total time. But watch them when you want and in any order. But you don't have to do only 1 a week. I might watch 2 a week.


Or even 2 a night. ;)

[Citizen Rules]

Yup, that two.....get it?;)

[gbgoodies]

Of the 9 films that are posted already on the first page, how many has everyone seen already?

I've seen 7 of them, and they're all great movies. I'm really looking forward to seeing them again, plus the additional 2 movies that I haven't seen yet.

[Citizen Rules]

Out of the Past (1947)
The Third Man (1949)
Pickup on South Street (1953)
In a Lonely Place (1950)
Laura (1944)
Sunset Boulevard (1950)
Shadow of a Doubt (1943)
The Wrong Man (1956)
Double Indemnity (1944)

I've seen all of them but only once and mostly awhile ago, so I'm looking forward to seeing them.

Which 2 haven't you seen?

[gbgoodies]

Out of the Past (1947)
The Third Man (1949)
Pickup on South Street (1953)
In a Lonely Place (1950)
Laura (1944)
Sunset Boulevard (1950)
Shadow of a Doubt (1943)
The Wrong Man (1956)
Double Indemnity (1944)

I've seen all of them but only once and mostly awhile ago, so I'm looking forward to seeing them.

Which 2 haven't you seen?


I haven't seen Out of the Past and Pickup on South Street.

It's also been many years since I've seen In a Lonely Place and Double Indemnity, so I'm looking forward to those more than the others because I don't remember them as well.

[seanc]

I have seen 4. The Wilders, Shadow, and my own. Haven't even heard of a few of these so looking forward to discovering some new stuff.

[Citizen Rules]

I have a little tidbit question:

What did audiences in the 1940-50s know about a noir character that commented murder, that many people today wouldn't know?

[neiba]

So here's how this works.
We're all nominating what we think is the best of classic Film Noir.

Watch all the movie nominations, in any order that you like.

There's 1 week given per movie to watch it, which means the final voting will be done in about 11 weeks. BUT you can watch more than one a week if you want. This could wrap up faster, it depends on how fast we watch the movies. But no one should feel rushed, there's plenty of time.

When you watch a nomination post your thoughts on it on this thread. It doesn't have to be a review. Others then discuss the movie too. Even those who are not part of the Noir Hof are encourage to join in the discussion.

After all the movies have been watched everyone ranks the movies in order from #1 being the most deserving of the HoF, to #11 being the least deserving.

Here's the cool part! What we do here in the Noir Hof will matter!
The Noir nomination with the most points will be inducted into the MoFo Movie Hall of Fame.
http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=34788&highlight=Movie+Hall+of+Fame

There's also a chance that at some point there might be a Hof List that would be included here:
http://www.movieforums.com/lists

We'll start as soon as the last nominations come in.:)


Forgive me if I may sound stupid, but why 11 weeks if there's only 9 movies?

[Citizen Rules]

Neiba that's a good question. The reason is there are 2 more people who are going to be submitting movies shortly.

[neiba]

My thoughts on In a Lonely Place (1950):

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1232148#post1232148

Apart from this one, I have seen Sunset Blvd. (my nomination) and Double Indemnity! I will get to the others as soon as I can!

[neiba]

Neiba that's a good question. The reason is there are 2 more people who are going to be submitting movies shortly.

Ohh, I should hv read the whole thread probably! :p Thanks!

[Citizen Rules]

I should have explained that 2 more people are going to submit in my other post, sorry.

[Kaplan]

Of the 9 films that are posted already on the first page, how many has everyone seen already?

I've seen 7 of them, and they're all great movies. I'm really looking forward to seeing them again, plus the additional 2 movies that I haven't seen yet.

I've seen all nine and I love them all. Out of the Past and The Wrong Man I've only seen once, though I remember both fairly well. (And I've seen the remake of Out of the Past.) Looking forward to seeing each again. The others I've seen multiple times, with Shadow of a Doubt the one I've seen the most, maybe 8-10 times. It's my own as yet not nominated movie I haven't seen. Going to watch it now, and if it indeed ends up as my nomination, I'll probably watch it again.

I was really hoping for a bunch of movies people loved which I hadn't seen yet. Oh well. I guess people aren't as familiar with noirs that aren't the standard classics, like people are with horror films.

[Kaplan]

Yup, what Mark said.

Every movie that is added to the HoF...gives +1 week viewing time. So we have 11 movies = 11 weeks total time. But watch them when you want and in any order. But you don't have to do only 1 a week. I might watch 2 a week.

Or you could be like Mark, and watch all eleven in one day. :)

[christine]

If any Brits are taking part or watching along, The Wrong Man is on TCM on Thursday at 5pm

[Citizen Rules]

We're ready to start!

All 12 classic Noir movie nominations are in! So start watching, post your thoughts on the film.....and have fun!

The 12 Film Noirs that we are watching are:

Out of the Past (1947)
The Third Man (1949)
Pickup on South Street (1953)
In a Lonely Place (1950)
Laura (1944)
Sunset Boulevard (1950)
Shadow of a Doubt (1943)
The Wrong Man (1956)
Double Indemnity (1944)
The Big Combo (1955)
The Lady from Shanghai (1947)
The Set-Up (1949)

There's some strong Noirs in that list by some great directors and with awesome actors...

Anybody who hasn't joined is still warmly welcomed to watch these and/or comment on them.:)

[Kaplan]

I was wondering why you didn't pick The Lady from Shanghai, Rules. But anyway I've been meaning to watch it for years. I have a copy of this from TCM from long ago. As for The Big Combo, you can watch it on youtube if all else fails. I know the version put up by Timeless Classic Movies looks very good.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIkCXF9Y4ow)

[gbgoodies]

I was wondering why you didn't pick The Lady from Shanghai, Rules. But anyway I've been meaning to watch it for years. I have a copy of this from TCM from long ago. As for The Big Combo, you can watch it on youtube if all else fails. I know the version put up by Timeless Classic Movies looks very good.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIkCXF9Y4ow)



What happened to Criss Cross? I DVRed it because I expected you to nominate it. Was it good, but just not good enough, or was it not very good?

[Kaplan]

What happened to Criss Cross? I DVRed it because I expected you to nominate it. Was it good, but just not good enough, or was it not very good?

I was afraid I wouldn't be able to watch it until Thursday night late, so it was better to go with something else. I'm still watching it when it comes in, though. At least I picked something everyone can easily be able to see. ;)

[Citizen Rules]

Kaplan thanks for posting that video of The Big Combo....The first thing I did this morning was to look for all the movies. I was able to get all of them from my library or Netfix DVD mail service....except I couldn't get:

The Big Combo (1955)
In a Lonely Place (1950)
Out of the Past (1947)

I'm sure I can find them online. I don't watch movies on my computer or stream. I download them to a USB flash drive and then watch them on a Blu-Ray player. But I'm really new at downloading movies.

[Erasmus Folly]

The Big Combo (1955)
In a Lonely Place (1950)
Out of the Past (1947)

All are available from Amazon.com

[Frightened Inmate No. 2]

Besides mine, I've seen In a Lonely Place and Double Indemnity, and i love the former and i haven't seen the latter since i was nine so i'm looking forward to rewatching it.

[gbgoodies]

I've seen all nine and I love them all. Out of the Past and The Wrong Man I've only seen once, though I remember both fairly well. (And I've seen the remake of Out of the Past.) Looking forward to seeing each again. The others I've seen multiple times, with Shadow of a Doubt the one I've seen the most, maybe 8-10 times. It's my own as yet not nominated movie I haven't seen. Going to watch it now, and if it indeed ends up as my nomination, I'll probably watch it again.

I was really hoping for a bunch of movies people loved which I hadn't seen yet. Oh well. I guess people aren't as familiar with noirs that aren't the standard classics, like people are with horror films.



Kaplan, I posted a challenge for you in the "2015 MoFo Challenges" thread.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1232813#post1232813

[gbgoodies]

Okay, let's try to get the ball rolling with some movie discussion. Some of us have already seen a bunch of the nominations, so we should be able to get some good conversations going here.

I re-watched Double Indemnity last night. I did a quick rating of it in my 2015 Logbook thread, but we can discuss it in greater detail here.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1232707#post1232707


I liked the movie a lot, but I had a few small issues with the movie. Nothing major, just a few minor things that bothered me a little bit, but not enough to take anything away from the greatness of the movie.

Fred MacMurray was pretty quick to get involved in a murder scheme for the love of a woman that he just met. Unless I missed something, it seemed like it was only a day between the time they first met, and the time they discuss her husband and the insurance policy. They just met and already they can't live without each other?

The signal they use is 3 horn honks. Why not do something less conspicuous, like a specific word or phrase? It doesn't make sense to use horn honks and draw attention to themselves.

When Keyes told Neff that he figured out who the "somebody else" was, why didn't Neff ask him who was the "somebody else"? He didn't even pretend to be curious. Shouldn't that have raised a red flag for Keyes, who's supposed to be the best at finding phony claims?

Also, not an issue, but just something I noticed. I never noticed before how short Edward G. Robinson is. At 5' 7", he looks like a midget next to Fred MacMurray (who's 6' 3"). I noticed that Edward G. Robinson is usually standing next to Fred MacMurray while Fred's leaning or sitting on a desk.

[gbgoodies]

I re-watched In a Lonely Place last night. I did a quick rating of it in my 2015 Logbook thread, but we can discuss it in greater detail here.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1232723#post1232723


I loved this movie. I think it's Humphrey Bogart's best performance, and one of his best movies. It seems to have gotten a little bit lost behind Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon and a few others over the years.

I thought Gloria Grahame was a little bit stiff at the beginning of the movie, but she got better as the movie went on. She didn't seem to hide her feelings about him very well, so I'm surprised that none of the characters in the movie picked up on her fears.

I'm not sure that Dix and Laurel would have ended up together even if the killer had confessed earlier because Dix had such a violent temper, at some point he was going to turn on her for something, it just would have been something different than her trying to leave him.


And I think the line "I was born when she kissed me. I died when she left me. I lived a few weeks while she loved me." is one of the greatest quotes ever.

[Kaplan]

I'm just going in chronological order, so I started with Shadow of a Doubt, which has always been one of my three favorite Hitchcock movies. Only the last time I watched it, I just didn't feel any connection to it. I thought maybe I'd seen it too many times and become jaded. But my love for it returned with this viewing. So that's good!

It has things about it not usually typical for a film by Hitch and I love those things. I love the location work and I wish he'd been more keen to shoot on location. Usually he couldn't wait to get any location shooting done so he could do the rest in a studio. Santa Rosa is really another character in the film. I like how there's no glamorous blond at the center of the film (not that I don't love many of the glamorous blonds he cast in his movies) and I like how there's no central romance, though a romance does develop later in the film.

The characters in the film are lively and all are perfectly cast. My favorite secondary character is easily the brainy little girl, and some of the best moments in the film are the conversations between the father and Herbert. The input they got from Thornton Wilder, author of Our Town, I think really added to the script. The movie is dang near perfect. As for it being a noir, I think you could look at Uncle Charlie as being something of a noir character in his cynicism and desperation, and in the way he plays with the detectives and manipulates his own family. And of course the way he spits on society's conventions. The scene in the bank is the perfect example. The second of the two really cynical speeches from Charlie:

You think you know something, don't you? You think you're the clever little girl who knows something. There's so much you don't know, so much. What do you know, really? You're just an ordinary little girl, living in an ordinary little town. You wake up every morning of your life and you know perfectly well that there's nothing in the world to trouble you. You go through your ordinary little day, and at night you sleep your untroubled ordinary little sleep, filled with peaceful stupid dreams. And I brought you nightmares. Or did I? Or was it a silly, inexpert little lie? You live in a dream. You're a sleepwalker, blind. How do you know what the world is like? Do you know the world is a foul sty? Do you know, if you rip off the fronts of houses, you'd find swine? The world's a hell. What does it matter what happens in it? Wake up, Charlie. Use your wits. Learn something.

[neiba]

It seems like a great list though I'm surprised that Kubrick's The Killing didn't make it! It has one of the best endings I've ever seen!

Here are my thoughts on Pickup on South Street:

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1233054#post1233054

[Citizen Rules]

I've seen The Killing twice, great noir. One reason is the strong cast of Sterling Hayden, Marie Windsor, Elisha Cook Jr. just to name a few.

So far I haven't seen any of the nominations for this Hof, I hope to watch one tonight. But I will still comment on them.

Pickup on South Street. What I loved about this noir is the brutal realism of Richard Widmark's character and Thelma Ritter's performace too.The scene where Widmark is hiding behind his waterfront shack door, trying to get the 'drop' on some bad guys. The door opens and he punches the person in the face....only it's not a bad guy, it's Jean Peters and she's knocked cold to the floor. What Widmark does next defines his character and the movie as one of the great Noirs. In any other Hollywood film, a romantic music score would have played, he would have bent down and gently kissed her...Not Widmark, he rolls Jean Peters over with his foot, like a sack of potatoes and then revives her by poring cold beer in her face! True to his characters form, that moment defines Widmark and the movie.

[Citizen Rules]

Kaplan...Shadow of a Doubt...It has things about it not usually typical for a film by Hitch and I love those things. I love the location work and I wish he'd been more keen to shoot on location. Usually he couldn't wait to get any location shooting done so he could do the rest in a studio... I've heard that Hitch loved to control the lighting and elements, hence most of his work is in-studio. Which is too bad because the heart of a Noir is the ultra realism of on-location. Albeit a dirty back alley or the streets of suburban Santa Rosa.

The characters in the film are lively and all are perfectly cast. My favorite secondary character is easily the brainy little girl, and some of the best moments in the film are the conversations between the father and Herbert...The movie is dang near perfect... I agree on both of those points. I remember a scene on an outside wooden stairwell that was done to Hitch thriller perfection. But mostly it's the diving into the characters lives. Joseph Cotton (one of Orson's favorite Mercury players) and Teresa Wright, really make the movie great.

[Citizen Rules]

Gbgoodies...Double Indemnity...I liked the movie a lot, but I had a few small issues with the movie... Fred MacMurray was pretty quick to get involved in a murder scheme for the love of a woman that he just met. Unless I missed something, it seemed like it was only a day between the time they first met, and the time they discuss her husband and the insurance policy. They just met and already they can't live without each other? That's interesting that you said that. I've always thought that Double Indemnity was a guys movie. Fred MacMurray is this regular, single guy who meets a married hot-trashy woman (Barbara Stanwyck). It seems nuts that he's going to fall head over heels for her and agree to knock off her husband.....And yet I found it believable. There's something in Barbara Stanwyck's character that makes it seem so plausible.

In a Lonely Place...I loved this movie. I think it's Humphrey Bogart's best performance, and one of his best movies. It seems to have gotten a little bit lost behind Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon and a few others over the years. I love this movie too. In the movie Bogart effectively de-compiles his 'Boogie' persona. He's not cool, he's not with it and we don't admire him. It's a great performance, Bogart is such a powerful actor. This movie goes beyond cliche archetypes and embraces realism. Not supringsly, in the late 1950s Hollywood was moving into a more realistic look at human relationships and behavior.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

In almost everyone behind the scenes documentary on Hitch's film, his daughter (as an old woman of course) or someone else mentions how much Hitch hated to work on location because everyone was off.

[Kaplan]

In almost everyone behind the scenes documentary on Hitch's film, his daughter (as an old woman of course) or someone else mentions how much Hitch hated to work on location because everyone was off.

Everyone was off what?

Hitch never kept it a secret he preferred working in the studio because he had more control. One of my favorite Hitchcock films is Frenzy, because he went to England and shot it on location, and it has far more of a gritty, realistic look than pretty much any other film he made. Shadow of a Doubt has a great look and feel to it as well because of the location shooting.

[Holden Pike]

Out of the Past (1947), The Third Man (1949), Pickup on South Street (1953), In a Lonely Place (1950), Laura (1944), Sunset Boulevard (1950), Shadow of a Doubt (1943), The Wrong Man (1956), Double Indemnity (1944), The Big Combo (1955), The Lady from Shanghai (1947)

Perhaps not surprisingly, I've seen all eleven of these. But along with Westerns, this is my favorite genre, so I'll happily talk about 'em!

Of the eleven my favorite, and one of my favorite movies period, is Nicholas Ray's In A Lonely Place. Cynical, sure, but it really earns its bleak and tragic ending, which is why I love it to pieces. I, too, think it is Bogart's best performance among all of his great ones.

[Daniel M]

The only ones I haven't seen are Out of the Past, Pickup on South Street and The Big Combo, I look forward to them :)

[Citizen Rules]

We have one more Noir movie entry! Holden Pike has joined the Noir Hof.....thanks Holden.

His nomination is The Set-Up (1949)

It sounds like an interesting noir. I haven't seen it but it has my favorite femme fatale, Audrey Totter.

[Holden Pike]

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=19371&stc=1&d=1420649848

Oh, yeah! I know you'll enjoy The Set-Up. Takes place more or less in real time, and during a boxing match, with the great Robert Ryan in the lead. He is one of the genre's great stars, too, as the hero or just as often as the heavy. I went back on forth on whether to nominate The Set-Up, Act of Violence, or Crossfire, all featuring Robert Ryan. I went with The Set-Up because it is such a nice piece of direction by Robert Wise, who would go on to win Oscars in the '60s for West Side Story and The Sound of Music, and seemingly never met a genre he didn't master in his long, amazing career.


The only ones I haven't seen are Out of the Past, Pickup on South Street and The Big Combo, I look forward to them :)

Out of the Past may be THE prototypical Noir, in a lot of ways. I think you can make an argument that it possesses every single element the great classic Noirs have, from themes and photography on down, and all wrapped up in a trenchcoat-wearing detective mixed up with a Femme Fatale, a flashback structure, directed by one of the masters of the genre (Jacques Tourneur), and starring one of the great leading men of the genre in Bob Mitchum. Enjoy seeing that one, for the first time!

Pickup on South Street is probably the best of the great Sam Fuller's Hollywood period, and its themes (and those performances) resonate through time. The Big Combo is great to see here. It is definitely a top tier Noir and a dynamite flick. But because it isn't helmed by a Hitchcock, Welles, or even a Fritz Lang, it too often doesn't get the same kind of play or recognition it deserves. There's no doubt in my mind that if it had the name of a famous director on it and/or starred Bogart, Burt Lancaster, or Glenn Ford, The Big Combo wouldn't just be coveted by those who know Noir, but more generally. It is one of the greats of the genre, brand name appeal or not.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=19372&stc=1&d=1420650001

[gbgoodies]

Welcome to the Noir HoF Holden. I haven't seen The Set-Up yet, so that makes four new movies for me in this HoF. I'm really looking forward to it.

Before this HoF started, I knew that there were a lot of noir movies, but I didn't realize how many of them I had already seen. I guess that's a good thing though because it means that I like the genre even more than I realized.

I've watched four of the nominated movies already, and I can already see that this is gong to be very hard to make a ranked list. These movies really are "the best of the best", and I'm loving watching them.

[Citizen Rules]

These movies really are "the best of the best", and I'm loving watching them. Yup! Some great choices:)

When I first got into movies, I mainly watched Precode and Noir. It's been awhile since I've seen any of these so hopefully tonight I can get to one.

[Citizen Rules]

So...I was going to watch Laura last night but got side tracked by watching the special features on the DVD.

There was this fascination A&E biography on Gene Tierney.
Gene Tierney: A Shattered Portrait (1999) 44 minutes.

Gene had one of most tragic lives of any actresses. She was romantically involved with designer Oleg Cassini, Howard Hughes, John F Kennedy and Rita Hayworth's ex husband, Prince Aly Khan. She had severe mental problems with hallucinations and depression. She spent time in three mental institutes, receiving electric shock therapy so strong that it caused her to loose part of her memories. On the set of one of her last big movies, The Left Hand of God, Humphrey Bogart had to take her under his wing and feed her the lines during takes.

There's so much more to her story. If you get a chance to see this I highly recommend it.

[gbgoodies]

So...I was going to watch Laura last night but got side tracked by watching the special features on the DVD.

There was this fascination A&E biography on Gene Tierney.
Gene Tierney: A Shattered Portrait (1999) 44 minutes.

Gene had one of most tragic lives of any actresses. She was romantically involved with designer Oleg Cassini, Howard Hughes, John F Kennedy and Rita Hayworth's ex husband, Prince Aly Khan. She had severe mental problems with hallucinations and depression. She spent time in three mental institutes, receiving electric shock therapy so strong that it caused her to loose part of her memories. On the set of one of her last big movies, The Left Hand of God, Humphrey Bogart had to take her under his wing and feed her the lines during takes.

There's so much more to her story. If you get a chance to see this I highly recommend it.


Gene Tierney: A Shattered Portrait is on YouTube in five parts. I haven't watched it yet, but I put it on my watchlist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YuwOHtnNmo

[Frightened Inmate No. 2]

when you watch The Wrong Man, i highly recommend reading Godard's analysis (http://torontofilmreview.blogspot.com/2013/04/history-of-film-criticism-godard-on.html) of it. it's a big reason why i fell in love with it.

[Citizen Rules]

Inmate, thanks for posting that. Should we read that before watching The Wrong Man? Will it spoil the ending of the movie if we read if first?

[gbgoodies]

when you watch The Wrong Man, i highly recommend reading Godard's analysis (http://torontofilmreview.blogspot.com/2013/04/history-of-film-criticism-godard-on.html) of it. it's a big reason why i fell in love with it.


Thanks for the link. (That's the smallest font I've ever seen, but I copied it to a text file to make it easier to read later.)

[Frightened Inmate No. 2]

Inmate, thanks for posting that. Should we read that before watching The Wrong Man? Will it spoil the ending of the movie if we read if first?

it's a shot-by-shot analysis of the whole movie, so i wouldn't read it beforehand, but i read it while i was watching it, as in i would pause every once in a while and read to where i was at. normally i wouldn't recommend stopping and starting a movie like that (although i do it too much anyway), but with this one there was no question that it helped me enjoy it more, and it helped me appreciate Hitchcock more in general.

[Citizen Rules]

Thanks, I will read it after I watch the movie.....I got to start watching me some noirs too, hopefully tonight.

[Daniel M]

I watched The Wrong Man late last year and I thought it was a really good, and at times great film. The effects employed by Hitchcock in order to get inside the character and display his turmoil are top notch, it really does teach you a lot about film making. It's not a traditional noir in the murder mystery, femme fatale sense, but I can definitely see why some would label it as such. It's like a weird documentary noir, Hitchcock could have easily took the story and made it into a more conventional thriller but instead he uses it as an opportunity to study the human mind and what its like to be stuck in a pessimistic world.

[gbgoodies]

Thanks, I will read it after I watch the movie.....I got to start watching me some noirs too, hopefully tonight.


I watched Pickup on South Street and Shadow of a Doubt last night, so I've watched six of the nominated movies.

Pickup on South Street was interesting because it started out as a normal crime movie, but it quickly became a spy thriller.

[Citizen Rules]

Goodies, what did you think about the scene with Thelma Ritter bedroom scene?

[gbgoodies]

Goodies, what did you think about the scene with Thelma Ritter bedroom scene?


I assume you mean the scene when Joey kills her. It was a very good scene, but a bit predictable. As soon as they started talking, I knew he was going to kill her. It's a sad scene though because that's when we find out that she's not going to get the burial that she wants. She's going to be buried in Potter's Field, which is what she said that she was afraid would happen to her.

[Citizen Rules]

That's the one I meant. I didn't want to say more without using a spoiler tag.

That's one of the most powerful scenes, I've ever seen...Thelma is saying to the gunmen, 'go ahead and shoot me, you'd be doing me a favor....'

That brief moment summed up what a hard and disappointing life she had led. Her only attainable dream was to scrape enough cash together for her funeral. In the end, she doesn't even get that much out of life.

Instead we see her fingers grasping for the wadded up money laying on the nightstand as she dies. Poignant.

[Erasmus Folly]

I haven't bought this yet but it seems like superb deal at only $9.99 from Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQ5IXW/ref=s9_qpp_gw_p74_d4_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-4&pf_rd_r=1QC0XTZVR2TGEYC9VJKY&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1970566762&pf_rd_i=desktop

Dark Crimes - 50 Movie Set

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/810UrHlSz3L._SY679_.jpg
Containing the following films:


Baby Face Morgan-- Mary Carlisle
Capture, The-- Lew Ayres
Cause for Alarm-- Loretta Young
Chase, The-- Robert Cummings
D.O.A.-- Edmond O'Brien
Devil's Party-- Victor McLaglen
Fear in the Night-- DeForest Kelly
Flowers from a Stranger-- Yul Brynner
Gaslight-- Anton Walbrook
Great Flamarion, The-- Erich von Stroheim
Guest in the House-- Ann Baxter
Half a Sinner-- Heather Angel
Hoodlum, The-- Lawrence Tierney
Inner Circle, The-- Adele Mara
Inner Sanctum-- Mary Beth Hughes
Last Mile, The-- Preston Foster
Life at Stake, A-- Angela Lansbury
Limping Man, The-- Lloyd Bridges
Love From a Stranger-- Basil Rathbone
Man Who Cheated Himself-- Lee J. Cobb
Man Who Had Influence, The-- Robert Sterling
Mandarin Mystery, The-- Eddie Quillan
Mystery of Mr. Wong, The-- Boris Karloff
Naked Kiss, The-- Constance Towers
Parole, Inc.-- Michael O'Shea
Pay-Off, The-- Lowell Sherman
Phantom Fiend, The-- Ivor Novello
Plan for Escape-- Peggy Ann Garner
Please Murder Me-- Angela Lansbury
Prison Shadows-- Eddie Nugent
Red House, The-- Edward G Robinson
Scar, The-- Paul Henreid
Shoot to Kill-- Russell Wade
Sinners in Paradise-- Madge Evans
Sleeping Tiger, The-- Alexis Smith
Slightly Honorable-- Pat O'Brien
Special Agent-- William Eythe
Strange Illusion-- James Lydon
Strange Woman-- Hedy Lamar
Sucker Money-- Mischa Auer
Ten Minutes to Live-- A.B. Comatherie
There Was a Crooked Man-- Robert Sterling
Things Happen at Night-- Gordon Harker
Trapped-- Lloyd Bridges
Two Sharp Knives-- Stanley Ridges
Whistle Stop-- George Raft
Woman Condemned, The-- Claudia Dell
Woman in the Shadows-- Melvyn Douglas
Woman on the Run-- Ann Sheridan
Wrong Road, The-- Helen Mack

As for the quality of these transfers to DVD I can't speak since I haven't seen them yet. They are released from Mill Creek Entertainment of which I have seen some before and are pretty good. A lot of these films are in the public domain and that may also effect quality, but for a price of $9.99 it's hard to go wrong. A lot of these would be hard to find anywhere else.
:D :D :D

[Citizen Rules]

Wow, that's like only .20 cents a movie, I might have to buy that myself. A lot of those movies could be hard to find so it sounds like a neat collection. I've seen a few of them but not many. If anybody buys that, let us know what the quality is like?

[gbgoodies]

I haven't bought this yet but it seems like superb deal at only $9.99 from Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQ5IXW/ref=s9_qpp_gw_p74_d4_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-4&pf_rd_r=1QC0XTZVR2TGEYC9VJKY&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1970566762&pf_rd_i=desktop

Dark Crimes - 50 Movie Set

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/810UrHlSz3L._SY679_.jpg
Containing the following films:


Baby Face Morgan-- Mary Carlisle
Capture, The-- Lew Ayres
Cause for Alarm-- Loretta Young
Chase, The-- Robert Cummings
D.O.A.-- Edmond O'Brien
Devil's Party-- Victor McLaglen
Fear in the Night-- DeForest Kelly
Flowers from a Stranger-- Yul Brynner
Gaslight-- Anton Walbrook
Great Flamarion, The-- Erich von Stroheim
Guest in the House-- Ann Baxter
Half a Sinner-- Heather Angel
Hoodlum, The-- Lawrence Tierney
Inner Circle, The-- Adele Mara
Inner Sanctum-- Mary Beth Hughes
Last Mile, The-- Preston Foster
Life at Stake, A-- Angela Lansbury
Limping Man, The-- Lloyd Bridges
Love From a Stranger-- Basil Rathbone
Man Who Cheated Himself-- Lee J. Cobb
Man Who Had Influence, The-- Robert Sterling
Mandarin Mystery, The-- Eddie Quillan
Mystery of Mr. Wong, The-- Boris Karloff
Naked Kiss, The-- Constance Towers
Parole, Inc.-- Michael O'Shea
Pay-Off, The-- Lowell Sherman
Phantom Fiend, The-- Ivor Novello
Plan for Escape-- Peggy Ann Garner
Please Murder Me-- Angela Lansbury
Prison Shadows-- Eddie Nugent
Red House, The-- Edward G Robinson
Scar, The-- Paul Henreid
Shoot to Kill-- Russell Wade
Sinners in Paradise-- Madge Evans
Sleeping Tiger, The-- Alexis Smith
Slightly Honorable-- Pat O'Brien
Special Agent-- William Eythe
Strange Illusion-- James Lydon
Strange Woman-- Hedy Lamar
Sucker Money-- Mischa Auer
Ten Minutes to Live-- A.B. Comatherie
There Was a Crooked Man-- Robert Sterling
Things Happen at Night-- Gordon Harker
Trapped-- Lloyd Bridges
Two Sharp Knives-- Stanley Ridges
Whistle Stop-- George Raft
Woman Condemned, The-- Claudia Dell
Woman in the Shadows-- Melvyn Douglas
Woman on the Run-- Ann Sheridan
Wrong Road, The-- Helen Mack

As for the quality of these transfers to DVD I can't speak since I haven't seen them yet. They are released from Mill Creek Entertainment of which I have seen some before and are pretty good. A lot of these films are in the public domain and that may also effect quality, but for a price of $9.99 it's hard to go wrong. A lot of these would be hard to find anywhere else.
:D :D :D


These types of sets are usually all public domain movies that you can find for free on YouTube and other sites all over the Internet. Of course you can't go wrong for only $9.99 for that many movies, but don't expect the quality to be very good. They're usually copies that are several generations deep.

[Erasmus Folly]

These types of sets are usually all public domain movies that you can find for free on YouTube and other sites all over the Internet. Of course you can't go wrong for only $9.99 for that many movies, but don't expect the quality to be very good. They're usually copies that are several generations deep.
I watched films on Youtube and other sites like them, but sometimes their quality is also suspect and sometimes I've experienced slight gaps or jumps in the playback. But for me it's always nice to have a disk to pop in to my player if possible as opposed to streaming. :highfive:

[Citizen Rules]

I prefer DVDs too, when possible.

Erasmus, what type and speed of internet connection do you have?
I have a moderately slow DSL connection and playback of youtube videos, doesn't work well for me on my computer.

And a 770mb download will take like 5 hours.

[Erasmus Folly]

I prefer DVDs too, when possible.

Erasmus, what type and speed of internet connection do you have?
I have a moderately slow DSL connection and playback of youtube videos, doesn't work well for me on my computer.

And a 770mb download will take like 5 hours.

I have an HP 810-250se PC w/ Comcast Infinity X1 Entertainment Operating System® and Blast!® Internet in-home WiFi and a listed speed of 105mps. Download speed to me is lighting fast. A 33 min. video in MP4 format at 1.7gb takes less then 1 min. In my area Comcast uses fiber optics into my Apt. complex.

[Citizen Rules]

Ohhh... I'm jealous. I have the slowest Broadband in the world. I just checked it's 256K. That's like a quarter of 1 MB.:(

[Citizen Rules]

Jean Peters (Pickup on South Street) has something in common with Gene Tierney (Laura)...that something is: Howard Hughes. Gene Tierney was in a relationship with Howard Hughes and Jean Peters was married to him.

[Erasmus Folly]

Pickup on South Street by Samuel Fuller (1953)

Samuel Fuller has been called the King of the B-Movie directors. I think this is mostly because he had an uneasy, to say the least, relationship with Hollywood since his films or his proposal for films would be an uncompromising look at controversial subject matters and thus his films always lacked for A-Level production level finances.

But in Pickup on South Street, having come off a box office success with his Korean war film The Steel Helmet he had his first A-Level picture.

It is difficult to review much of this film since it so plot or shall I say story driven that to discuss certain scenes tends to spoil the experience for anyone that hasn’t seen it. I’ll use the spoilers tag when necessary.

The film stars Richard Widmark, Jean Peters, Richard Kiley and Thelma Ritter. IMO Thelma Ritter steals the show, even though her appearance is limited to few brief but important scenes. Widmark is starting to break out of his then Hollywood persona as a crazed killer that he earned in his first appearance as Tommy Udo in The Kiss of Death (1947). At no point in this film does he become hysterical or overact. He plays it smooth and cool, beginning to show the true range of his abilities as an actor.

The film starts out in a car of a subway train. We see two men watching a young girl. Widmark appears coming up behind her. (Also in the subway car is a soldier in uniform wearing a shoulder patch identifying him as belonging to The First Infantry Division, Sam Fuller’s unit in WWII.) Widmark is observed by the two men as he lifts a wallet from the girl's purse and swiftly departs. When she departs the men follow and observe her as she discovers her loss and panics. We quickly learn that they are FBI agents on the trail of stolen film to be turned over to Communist spies. Thus in the first 5 min. we learn all we need to know and the story follows relentlessly on.

This much of Fuller’s style as a story-teller and filmmaker. Hit ‘em hard in the beginning to get their attention and never let go. He began his first job as a journalist at 17 years old with a New York City Hearst tabloid covering the crime scene and thus he was familiar with getting a reader’s attention.

The cinematography is excellent with crisp black and whites, many shots on location in difficult circumstances by Joseph MacDonald. Many close-ups (one especially excellent one is of Richard Kiley’s face showing beads of perspiration as he sweats in a panic). Music by Lionel Newman complements the overall pacing and mood without intruding. The editing, especially of a couple of fight scenes is truly excellent.

That's the one I meant. I didn't want to say more without using a spoiler tag.

That's one of the most powerful scenes, I've ever seen...Thelma is saying to the gunmen, 'go ahead and shoot me, you'd be doing me a favor....'

That brief moment summed up what a hard and disappointing life she had led. Her only attainable dream was to scrape enough cash together for her funeral. In the end, she doesn't even get that much out of life.

Instead we see her fingers grasping for the wadded up money laying on the nightstand as she dies. Poignant.

I couldn't agree more. That scene alone to me is the best in the movie, the build up, her final dialog in what amounts to a soliloquy, the slow movement of the camera to close-up of her face, the pan of the camera to the left to see the record ending its play at the fatal moment. Pure excellence and one of Thelma Ritter's finest moments on screen.
P.S. There is a scene a little bit later that reveals much of Widmark's character. Even though Mo (Ritter) has betrayed him by giving up his address, which he understands since as he says "Mos's got to eat too", he has gotten permission to take her casket off the barge before it goes to Potter's Field, which she feared, and he will pay for her funeral himself.
One more observation. This was filmed during the height of the McCarthy anti-communist hearings in Washington. And though the film has been cited as virulently anti-communist it contains, a least to my ears a subtle sub-context that is very much opposed to this red scare ideology.

On a final note, this does not fit my idea of a true film noir because 1. It has a happy ending and 2. The hero ‘gets’ the girl. Two no-no's IMO.

rating_5

[Erasmus Folly]

Addendum to Pickup on South Street:


There is a scene near the beginning that shows how smooth and cool Skip (Widmark's character) is. He lives in a shack on the NYC waterfront. He keeps a crate of beer bottles in the river that he can haul up or down by means of a rope. At the bottom of the crate is a secret compartment where he keeps the loot he garnered as a pickpocket. As he is looking over his ill-gotten gains the police pull up outside. He replaces his gains in the secret hiding place but doesn't have time to re-lower the crate into the river before two policemen enter. One starts to take him to the precinct house and the other stays behind. Skip says to him - 'after your done drinking my beer, lower my crate back in the river to keep it cold', thus getting the policeman to help hide the very loot that they are looking for. How cool is that! :cool:

[Daniel M]

Just watched Out of the Past. A very good nomination. I loved the beginning as we are told through flashbacks Jeff's story, it worked great as a romance and made you very intrigued in to how the relationship would end and get you to the point where Whit wants to meet him again. It has all the ingredients you expect to find from noir, excellent cinematography, constant smoking, razor sharp dialogue and a femme fatale that constantly keeps you guessing what's going to happen next. Robert Mitchum and Jane Greer are fabulous together as the central characters, and Kirk Douglas makes a good villain too, what we watch is basically an extremely complicated love triangle as each man tries to get ahead of the other.

I thought that the second half wasn't as strong as the first, and thinks started to get a little too convoluted and slightly less interesting as the romantic element faded, but it was still very enjoyable.

[Citizen Rules]

Erasmus, Very interesting what you wrote on Pickup on South Street. As fate would have it, I watched another Sam Fuller movie last night, The Naked Kiss (1964).

Samuel Fuller has been called the King of the B-Movie directors. I think this is mostly because he had an uneasy, to say the least, relationship with Hollywood since his films or his proposal for films would be an uncompromising look at controversial subject matters...

This much of Fuller’s style as a story-teller and filmmaker. Hit ‘em hard in the beginning to get their attention and never let go. He began his first job as a journalist at 17 years old with a New York City Hearst tabloid covering the crime scene and thus he was familiar with getting a reader’s attention....in the first 5 min (of the film) we learn all we need to know and the story follows relentlessly on. That also describes, The Naked Kiss. On the DVD was a couple of interviews with Sam Fuller from the 80s. He's a fascinating guy who lived life with gusto. And as you say, he was a tabloid journalist at only 17. Sam said of the opening scene in The Naked Kiss he wanted it to be like a newspaper headline, screaming what the movie was about. I'm going to check out more of his movies.


I had forgot about the beer crate scene, that's a great one. Another scene that impressed me was this...
Pickup on South Street. What I loved about this noir is the brutal realism of Richard Widmark's character and Thelma Ritter's performace too. The scene where Widmark is hiding behind his waterfront shack door, trying to get the 'drop' on some bad guys. The door opens and he punches the person in the face....only it's not a bad guy, it's Jean Peters and she's knocked cold to the floor. What Widmark does next defines his character and the movie as one of the great Noirs. In any other Hollywood film, a romantic music score would have played, he would have bent down and gently kissed her...Not Widmark, he rolls Jean Peters over with his foot, like a sack of potatoes and then revives her by poring cold beer in her face! True to his characters form, that moment defines Widmark and the movie.

[christine]

Just watched Sunset Boulevard and it's just occurred to me that I've seen so many of these films but not as an adult. My dad was film mad, and most of these noirs were seen by me and him on TV when I was a kid . He was great, he used to know the names of even all the bit part players. He helped me appreciate film, but I realise I'm getting so much more out of these films than I remembered :)

That staircase scene at the end of Sunset Boulevard is awesome!

[Pussy Galore]

I want to join is it to late?

[Citizen Rules]

Galore hi, I would say yes!...I did set a deadline for Jan 8th. BUT seeing how you only missed by 1 day. I will ask all of the members of this Noir Hof if it's OK if we add one more person.:) I think it should be up to them to decide. If anybody objects, please PM me and I will keep your ID private.

I bet everyone will be cool with you joining Galore...I will give 48 hours for any objections and during that time find your Noir film nomination and PM me with it.

[gbgoodies]

Galore hi, I would say yes!...I did set a deadline for Jan 8th. BUT seeing how you only missed by 1 day. I will ask all of the members of this Noir Hof if it's OK if we add one more person.:) I think it should be up to them to decide. If anybody objects, please PM me and I will keep your ID private.

I bet everyone will be cool with you joining Galore...I will give 48 hours for any objections and during that time find your Noir film nomination and PM me with it.


I'm cool with Pussy Galore joining. The more, the merrier. :up:

[christine]

Welcome PG :)

[neiba]

More Noirs is always good! Welcome PG! :D

But I foresee a lot of indecision on my list! :p There are so many great movies here!

[neiba]

Just watched Sunset Boulevard and it's just occurred to me that I've seen so many of these films but not as an adult. My dad was film mad, and most of these noirs were seen by me and him on TV when I was a kid . He was great, he used to know the names of even all the bit part players. He helped me appreciate film, but I realise I'm getting so much more out of these films than I remembered :)

That staircase scene at the end of Sunset Boulevard is awesome!

What did you think of Sunset Blvd. christine? :)

[neiba]

My thoughts on Out of the Past and The Third Man:

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1234123#post1234123

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1234839#post1234839

Damn, how I will decide the best movies with so many great stuff here???

[Citizen Rules]

Neiba it's cool if you want to copy/paste anything you already wrote, either in full or just part.

Tonight, I hope to watch a noir. Am I like the only person who hasn't even watched one of the nominations so far?

[Erasmus Folly]

Galore hi, I would say yes!...I did set a deadline for Jan 8th. BUT seeing how you only missed by 1 day. I will ask all of the members of this Noir Hof if it's OK if we add one more person.:) I think it should be up to them to decide. If anybody objects, please PM me and I will keep your ID private.

I bet everyone will be cool with you joining Galore...I will give 48 hours for any objections and during that time find your Noir film nomination and PM me with it.
Okay by me. :)

[gbgoodies]

Damn, how I will decide the best movies with so many great stuff here???


That's a good problem with the special category HoFs. With the previous HoFs, there have always been a few movies that either I didn't like or they were just okay, but in this HoF, every movie nominated has been a great movie. It's going to be really hard to rank them.

[Kaplan]

Neiba it's cool if you want to copy/paste anything you already wrote, either in full or just part.

Tonight, I hope to watch a noir. Am I like the only person who hasn't even watched one of the nominations so far?

Looks like it! :D

I watched Laura and Double Indemnity yesterday. The best part of Laura for me is Dana Andrews as the lead. Laura and Where the Sidewalk Ends were a big part of why I had him as one of my favorite actors for SC's movie star countdown.

And I had kinda forgotten how pulpish a lot of the dialogue was in Double Indemnity. I'm not complaining, but every time I hear the dialogue about the speed limit, and "how fast was I going?", it sticks out as the type of corny dialogue that can sound so right in these types of stories. I think it was gbgoodies who thought they fell in love too quick, but I've always assumed it was blatantly clear that it was lust on his part and manipulation on hers. One of these days I'm going to do more than skim over the novel and actually sit down and read it.

[Zotis]

I always wanted to learn more about noir films. I'm going to have to check a bunch of these out once I clear some space on my plate.

[Pussy Galore]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome, I only have 5 movies to watch and I'll probably watch them all in 2 or 3 weeks

[Citizen Rules]

I had wrote this myself and was going to put it into my first post but never did, so I'll post it now.....

Many factors went into the phenomenon of Film Noir...

One important influence on Film Noirs was by the Motion Picture Production Code. Also known as the Hays Code or Production Code.

The Production Code went into effect in early 1934 and brought what was suppose to be 'wholesome values' to movies. As Precode movies were pushing the envelope of morality subjects and what could be shown. A back lash developed from the Catholic Church, who sought to control the content of movies. So the studios themselves agreed to a Production Code censor, as they preferred that to government regulations and boycotts from the Catholic Church.

The Production Code controlled everything from language to subject matter, to how long a screen kiss could be. A script had to be approved by the Production Code office before it could be made.

One part of the Code said anyone who commented a heinous criminal act had to be punished. If a movie character commits murder, that character either has to be killed or go to jail. Criminals could not be shown to 'get away with it'.

So in every Film Noir we know that the protagonist that comments a heinous crime will not be getting away with it. Audiences back in the day knew that about, but not everyone in the 21st century does.

[Erasmus Folly]

Erasmus, Very interesting what you wrote on Pickup on South Street. As fate would have it, I watched another Sam Fuller movie last night, The Naked Kiss (1964).
That also describes, The Naked Kiss. On the DVD was a couple of interviews with Sam Fuller from the 80s. He's a fascinating guy who lived life with gusto. And as you say, he was a tabloid journalist at only 17. Sam said of the opening scene in The Naked Kiss he wanted it to be like a newspaper headline, screaming what the movie was about. I'm going to check out more of his movies.
Besides being a journalist, he was also a screenwriter and a novelist of the pulp fiction variety. In WWII he was with the 1st Infantry Division - The Big Red One and saw heavy fighting in North Africa, Sicily and Normandy. He was awarded a Bronze Star and the Purple Heart. He landed at Omaha Beach on D-Day and was awarded The Silver Star for pulling his fellow soldiers from the surf under intense enemy fire. He fought his way through Belgium and Czechoslovakia and helped liberate a Nazi Death camp.

The one film that is his acknowledged Magnum Opus is The Big Red One, a film that was butchered by the studio on its release (1980). He spent 25 years trying to tell this story of what amounted to his experiences in WWII as a combat infantry man. He could never get the funds for a proper production, and much of the film was shot in Israel with Jewish youths playing Nazi guards while wearing Yarmulkes under their steel pots. The film was finally restored, after great difficulty, posthumously, in 2004 under the title The Big Red One - The Reconstruction, with an additional 40+ minutes, thus fleshing out what had been a choppy and difficult movie to watch. Roger Ebert added this version to his list 'great movies'. Highly recommended.

[Erasmus Folly]

I had wrote this myself and was going to put it into my first post but never did, so I'll post it now.....

Many factors went into the phenomenon of Film Noir...

One important influence on Film Noirs was by the Motion Picture Production Code. Also known as the Hays Code or Production Code.

The Production Code went into effect in early 1934 and brought what was suppose to be 'wholesome values' to movies. As Precode movies were pushing the envelope of morality subjects and what could be shown. A back lash developed from the Catholic Church, who sought to control the content of movies. So the studios themselves agreed to a Production Code censor, as they preferred that to government regulations and boycotts from the Catholic Church.

The Production Code controlled everything from language to subject matter, to how long a screen kiss could be. A script had to be approved by the Production Code office before it could be made.

One part of the Code said anyone who commented a heinous criminal act had to be punished. If a movie character commits murder, that character either has to be killed or go to jail. Criminals could not be shown to 'get away with it'.

So in every Film Noir we know that the protagonist that comments a heinous crime will not be getting away with it. Audiences back in the day knew that about, but not everyone in the 21st century does.
Another hallmark of Noir films and the Hays Code was the way directors sought to push back against the strict moral constraints that they imposed. Directors used inventive double-entendres that a sophisticated audience would pickup on, but would slip past the more naïve censors. They were also creative in the blocking of actors and their use of objects that they handled. For instance a cigar could be more than just a cigar. :D

[Daniel M]

Repeating/expanding what I said earlier about Out of the Past, I think in some ways the film was a victim of its own success for me as I preferred the first half to the second. When it comes to the first half an hour, the extended flashback(s) to Mexico, I struggle to think of many films that top that in terms of romance. The chemistry is so great, the dialogue so sharp and witty, the love feels real. Then as with all noirs we get to the harsh, pessimistic reality of the world.

[Citizen Rules]

Daniel, I often like the first part of the movie better than the second. In some ways I'd say a truly great film has an ending that's stronger than the beginning. I haven't watched Out of the Past yet. Who else has? And thoughts on what Daniel said about it?

[Kaplan]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome, I only have 5 movies to watch and I'll probably watch them all in 2 or 3 weeks

Oh no, brother, if you want me to watch your nominated film, then you have to watch all the films. ;) Unless you just so happen to have seen the movie so many times you already know it backwards and forwards, then you'll get a pass. I'm watching all the films, you can watch all the films. Unless you don't want to nominate something, then do whatever you want.

Obviously, this is on the honor system, so it's not like we'll really know, but still....

[gbgoodies]

The first half of Out of the Past was definitely better than the second half. The first half was a pretty straight forward story, but the second half got a bit confusing at times, but it definitely keeps your attention. There are a few shockers in the second half, and if you turn away for just a few seconds, you can miss something important.

I'm not a big fan of Robert Mitchum, but not because I don't like him, but only because I haven't seen a lot of his movies. I really liked him in this movie.

[Citizen Rules]

Yes to what Kaplan just said.

To be an actual voting member of the Noir HoF you have to watch all of the films nominated by all the members, even if you seen them a month ago. We all agree to that.

BUT anyone can join in by posting, commenting and watching the films if they like, that's encouraged too. But to vote and to place a movie in contention by nomination, ya gotta watch em all.:)

[Pussy Galore]

Oh no, brother, if you want me to watch your nominated film, then you have to watch all the films. ;) Unless you just so happen to have seen the movie so many times you already know it backwards and forwards, then you'll get a pass. I'm watching all the films, you can watch all the films. Unless you don't want to nominate something, then do whatever you want.

Obviously, this is on the honor system, so it's not like we'll really know, but still....



hahahaha allright, I've seen In a Lonely Place ressently, but other then that I'll rewatch them

[Kaplan]

Watched Out of the Past and loved it even more than the first time. Really impressed by this film. And yes, I love the second part more than the first, though of course the ending is not my favorite, but that's Noir for you. I have this on a disc I DVR'd from TCM three or four years ago and the other film I recorded was The Big Steal, also with Robert Mitchum and Jane Greer. I'll have to revisit that one too.

Out of the Past has some great dialogue and great one-liners. The guy at the desk: "I always say everyone's right." When talking to Kirk Douglas about Joe being dead Mitchum delivers my favorite line: "You'll get over it. I did."

[christine]

What did you think of Sunset Blvd. christine? :)

Loved it. The staircase scene at the end is a tour de force of a scene. Gloria Swanson is mesmerising, specially when you're bearing in mind her amazing real life as you're watching, and the lives of the big silent stars who struggled when the talkies came along. It could've been hard for William Holden and Erich Von Stroheim to make their marks in the film against Swanson's larger than life Norma, but they do. William Holden plays Joe as a real dislikable heel, weak and self absorbed - never felt sorry for him at all!



And I had kinda forgotten how pulpish a lot of the dialogue was in Double Indemnity. I'm not complaining, but every time I hear the dialogue about the speed limit, and "how fast was I going?", it sticks out as the type of corny dialogue that can sound so right in these types of stories. I think it was gbgoodies who thought they fell in love too quick, but I've always assumed it was blatantly clear that it was lust on his part and manipulation on hers. One of these days I'm going to do more than skim over the novel and actually sit down and read it.

Yes I agree with the speed in which they 'fell in love' . He's a thirty five year old bloke living on his own, the lust can be seen from the first glimpse he had of her on the balcony and her behaviour in the scene later, obviously a woman up for flirtation at least, no wonder he was attracted.
The voice overs in lots of noirs was always the thing I loved, but you do have to pay attention as the rate of conversation is often so fast!

[Zotis]

The one film that is his acknowledged Magnum Opus is The Big Red One, a film that was butchered by the studio on its release (1980). He spent 25 years trying to tell this story of what amounted to his experiences in WWII as a combat infantry man. He could never get the funds for a proper production, and much of the film was shot in Israel with Jewish youths playing Nazi guards while wearing Yarmulkes under their steel pots. The film was finally restored, after great difficulty, posthumously, in 2004 under the title The Big Red One - The Reconstruction, with an additional 40+ minutes, thus fleshing out what had been a choppy and difficult movie to watch. Roger Ebert added this version to his list 'great movies'. Highly recommended.

That is very interesting. I have The Big Red One on DVD and I was never very impressed by it. But I seriously doubt it's the reconstructed version. I wouldn't mind giving that a go.

[Kaplan]

The Set-Up is a great pick from Holden, the type of hidden gem I was hoping would be nominated. The story is very simple and the movie barely cracks 70 minutes, but it's all atmosphere and mood, dark alleys and flashing lights, criminals and losers. Ringside is where the darkness of people's souls are exposed, the one-eyed man screaming for the boxer to take out the other boxer's eye, the large man stuffing his face round after round, the housewife screaming for blood, where chants of "Kill him!" wash over the fighters in the ring.

At the center of the movie is a boxer who's over the hill, but still dreaming, still telling himself he's only one punch away from being on top again, and his loyal wife, who can't stand to watch him get beaten up again. There's poignancy in these scenes, and the actors are terrific. Robert Ryan is the perfect lead, a former boxer in college, and much of the movie is focused on his fight and it keeps you on the edge of your seat. I can see why Martin Scorsese was a fan of the movie.

[Citizen Rules]

I almost wish I was watching the nominations at the same time you guys are. It's hard for me to comment on a film I haven't seen in years and I've never seen The Set-Up....It sounds great, I like the dirty gritty, grimy back alley Noirs with tragic characters, blindingly falling towards their destiny. I've seen Robert Ryan in:
Crossfire
Clash by Night
House of Bamboo
Act of Violence

He's was good in all of those. I thought about those as nominations too.

[Erasmus Folly]

That is very interesting. I have The Big Red One on DVD and I was never very impressed by it. But I seriously doubt it's the reconstructed version. I wouldn't mind giving that a go.
The full and proper version was released in 2004 and the full title is:

The Big Red One - The Reconstruction

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/uploads/2004/05/The-Big-Red-One-dvd.jpg


I also had the 1980 version on VHS and never liked it. This is because of the abattoir techniques of the studio. The reconstruction restores Fuller's film to it's true glory.


Beware, this is the 1980 version:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71jR4Mnic3L._SX522_.jpg

[Daniel M]

I'm cool with PG joining too, for the record :D

By the way, just started watching The Set-Up, so I'll post my thoughts in here later :)

[Daniel M]

Finished The Set-Up, another very good nomination and I'm very glad I watched it as I probably wouldn't have if it wasn't for this thread, that's what these things or for, right?

From the opening credits I knew this would be a good nomination, and I thought as it went on it actually got stronger. A lot of this has to be down to the real time structure employed, we spend all our time with Robert Ryan's character, getting to know him and what's going through his mind. I struggle to think of many characters that I have come across that I have empthasised less with. Wise really does a great job of showing us his struggle and desire to win.

I enjoyed how there was a lot of subtle elements implemented , such as signs that Julie walks past reading "The Rings, Win Prizes". I do think that certain details seemed a bit forced/obvious in order to push certain points, that's only a minor complaint.

The editing is fantastic, switching cleverly between the different characters throughout as they all go through different thoughts. The first half focusses on character development and suspense leading up to the fight, and the second half shows us a fascinating fight that I was really on the edge of my seat for, I felt like cheering every punch that Stoker landed.

Citizen Rules recently posted about the code rules in place at the time. And during the final act, I was crying out for these rules to somehow help Stoker.

To put it simply, here the bad guys get away with beating up the good guy, the honourable thing is punished, and gambling and organised crime is fine, I was a little surprised at this. I think this surprised me a little and made the final beating all the more harder to take.

[Daniel M]

Now I'm about to watch The Big Combo. Man, these noirs have got me hooked :cool:

[Citizen Rules]

Good for you! I love them too. I hope to watch another tonight.

[mark f]

Singapore Sling (1990) - The intersection of the Film Noir and Horror Hall of Fames. :cool:
https://41.media.tumblr.com/3ff29c30b2fdcd9ada9125c905a0472a/tumblr_naltj2fMYB1sgsrdio2_500.png
http://i.imgur.com/OaR2ilc.png

[Citizen Rules]

So I finally watched my first nomination, Laura. Has anybody else watched that one yet?

Laura to me feels like a Film Noir + Hitchcock murder mystery...all rolled into a movie version of a stage play.

Heavy on character development, dialogue and rich in nuances. It's very light on exterior shots. I mean there's no car chases or shadows down a rainy street. Most everything is interiors done in a studio..Which works fine for this type of movie.

It's interesting how the would-be suspects tag along with the Detective (Dana Andrews) as he goes about investigating the murder.

Both the story and characters are allowed to develop like a fine wine. Nothing is rushed, yet the story never drags as it's rich in detailed nuances.

This was the second time I seen it and I totally forgot the plot, I even forgot who done it...I wonder why?

[Daniel M]

I love this from Roger Ebert's review:

Film noir is known for its convoluted plots and arbitrary twists, but even in a genre that gave us “The Maltese Falcon,” this takes some kind of prize. “Laura” (1944) has a detective who never goes to the station; a suspect who is invited to tag along as other suspects are interrogated; a heroine who is dead for most of the film; a man insanely jealous of a woman even though he never for a moment seems heterosexual; a romantic lead who is a dull-witted Kentucky bumpkin moving in Manhattan penthouse society, and a murder weapon that isreturnedto its hiding place by the cop, who will “come by for it in the morning.” The only nude scene involves the jealous man and the cop.

[Citizen Rules]

Interesting! thanks for posting that...and I'm glad you wrapped it in a spoiler tag too.

[Citizen Rules]

Mark I never seen Singapore Sling. I might've heard of it though.

[Kaplan]

Except I never thought for a moment that the Dana Andrews character was dull-witted, or a Kentucky bumpkin. That's silly of Ebert to say that.

[Daniel M]

I can't remember to much about Dana Andrew's character to comment on that, but aside from that point, I just love how he sums up what makes Laura so great, it has everything you find in normal noirs but all these odds elements that make it stand out as something brilliant.

Did you guys also know the film was a massive influence for Twin Peaks too?

[Citizen Rules]

Dull-witted, or a Kentucky bumpkin. Ebert must have meant Vincent Price's character. His character was from Kentucky and none to bright.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.607987131231963954&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

4

Even though I watched this movie on the fourth, I just realized I never posted the fact I saw it here.

Well, Bogart gives a great performance as a great a******, the twists were nice and the movie kept me interested.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608015185954538120&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

3.5

A good film Hitch but not among his best. Fonda was good and the fact the movie was based on a true story was refreshing from Hitch.

[Kaplan]

Dull-witted, or a Kentucky bumpkin. Ebert must have meant Vincent Price's character. His character was from Kentucky and none to bright.

Yes, you're right, it is who Ebert is referring to. But Ebert's wording is not very clear, as I wouldn't describe Vincent Price as the "romantic lead." Anyway, I got it now.

[gbgoodies]

I watched Laura with my mother many years ago, and it's one of the reasons that I became a fan of classic movies, and most Hitchcock movies. My mother introduced me to so many classic movies that don't stop when the movie is over. Movies that linger in your head, and make you think about them. They don't rely on action scenes like car chases to keep your attention. They're about the characters and the story. And they make you want to watch them over and over again, and pick up on the little clues that you may have missed along the way.

It's interesting reading Ebert's review because I can almost hear his voice in my head. I can hear him saying those words, as if I was watching an episode of "At the Movies" with him and Gene Siskel.

[Kaplan]

I watched The Lady from Shanghai for the first time. What a mess of a movie. I understand the studio helped butcher it, and it's curious, or rather telling I suppose, that Orson Wells took his name off the credits as director, but even so my biggest complaint has to with the main character. Since all the characters are unlikeable and not the least bit interesting, the main character should be someone who is at least interesting. He's not. He's an empty shell. There's no depth to the character, which still wouldn't be bad if there was something there at all. Think of the main character of The Man Who Wasn't There and he's a complete vacuum as well, but it's done on purpose and there's a style there at least. So give me a character who has style, I'd take that. Instead the only things I could see were lazy acting and a very distracting and completely unnecessary Irish accent.

Overall, very disappointing, but I'm glad I finally saw it. I should mention I found the scene in the carnival very impressive. Definitely the highlight of the film, and almost enough to give the movie some redemption. Next up is one of my favorite films, The Third Man, which has much better acting from Welles. I'm thankful he didn't direct it, though.

[Citizen Rules]

Yes, you're right, it is who Ebert is referring to. But Ebert's wording is not very clear, as I wouldn't describe Vincent Price as the "romantic lead." Anyway, I got it now.


I agree with you that Ebert wasn't very clear in that spoiler about Laura. For example, Ebert says: "a man insanely jealous of a woman even though he never for a moment seems heterosexual;" referring to Waldo Lydecker (Clifton Webb). Webb was gay in real life and this was his first time on screen since 1925. The director insisted that he be in the film. But unless I missed something, there was no subtle hint that his character was suppose to be gay. I took it that his character was an intelligent yet cynical older man, not particular handsome or attractive to the ladies and yet he had fallen under Laura's spell.

Is that who you guys seen Waldo Lydecker?

Film noir is known for its convoluted plots and arbitrary twists, but even in a genre that gave us “The Maltese Falcon,” this takes some kind of prize. “Laura” (1944) has a detective who never goes to the station; a suspect who is invited to tag along as other suspects are interrogated; a heroine who is dead for most of the film; a man insanely jealous of a woman even though he never for a moment seems heterosexual; a romantic lead who is a dull-witted Kentucky bumpkin moving in Manhattan penthouse society, and a murder weapon that isreturnedto its hiding place by the cop, who will “come by for it in the morning.” The only nude scene involves the jealous man and the cop.

[Citizen Rules]

The Lady from Shanghai, I haven't watched that again. The one time I seen it, I also though it seemed fragmented. That's thanks to the studio hacking up the film over Orson's objections. I was distracted by Orson's Irish accent. Even though he does a good accent, it just didn't seem natural coming from him.

[Daniel M]

I didn't have the problems that you had with The Lady from Shanghai, Kaplan. My main issue was that the actual plot doesn't make any sense, but aside from that I think it's a fantastic piece of work that I would have loved to have seen fully how Welles envisioned it.

[Kaplan]

I agree with you that Ebert wasn't very clear in that spoiler about Laura. For example, Ebert says: "a man insanely jealous of a woman even though he never for a moment seems heterosexual;" referring to Waldo Lydecker (Clifton Webb). Webb was gay in real life and this was his first time on screen since 1925. The director insisted that he be in the film. But unless I missed something, there was no subtle hint that his character was suppose to be gay. I took it that his character was an intelligent yet cynical older man, not particular handsome or attractive to the ladies and yet he had fallen under Laura's spell.

Is that who you guys seen Waldo Lydecker?


I think Ebert is referring to how fastidious and vain Waldo Lydecker is. He's certainly not a man's man, but it's not like Hollywood hadn't presented older men similar to Waldo who were heterosexual.

But why pick on Laura? What's up with the gay stuff in The Lady from Shanghai. The movie is as blatantly clear on George's sexuality as a movie from that era could be, but what about the husband? What was going on there among those sharks?

[Citizen Rules]

Do you mean me picking on Laura? I wasn't, I reviewed it and gave it a rating_4_5 I was commenting on Ebert's piece on Laura, I think he was shooting for humor in what he wrote and not the most accurate. Hopefully others will comment on it when they watch Laura.

I've only seen The Lady from Shanghai once long ago. When I watch it again I will pay attention to George.

[mark f]

George is very weird, but the weirdest thing about him is the way he talks.

[Kaplan]

Do you mean me picking on Laura? I wasn't, I reviewed it and gave it a rating_4_5 .

No, I meant Ebert picking on Laura, and even that I meant humorously. Noirs seem to have lots of gay characters. The Big Combo has a pair of gay henchmen.

[Kaplan]

George is very weird, but the weirdest thing about him is the way he talks.

You mean like "tell them you were tawget shooting" ? :laugh:

[Daniel M]

No, I meant Ebert picking on Laura, and even that I meant humorously. Noirs seem to have lots of gay characters. The Big Combo has a pair of gay henchmen.

Watched this last night and I was wondering this. I'm normally pretty stupid when it comes to spotting hidden clues about sexuality and things, but this seemed obvious to me, interesting.

[gbgoodies]

Did we get a nomination from Pussy Galore?

[Citizen Rules]

PG's nomination is Sweet Smell of Success (1957). I will add that to the list and post a pic from the movie. Night all.

[seanc]

Watched this last night and I was wondering this. I'm normally pretty stupid when it comes to spotting hidden clues about sexuality and things, but this seemed obvious to me, interesting.

I didn't get that at all. I am normally pretty oblivious about these things though. When hot blondes are running around it never occurs to me that people would be attracted to other characters.:D

[Citizen Rules]

When it comes to pre-1960 movies, some of what people think are hidden sexuality clues were non-intentional by the director. Our 21st century minds can interpret mid-century behavior norms as something it's not.

On the other hand, there are gay characters in older films, they are just very subtle about it. Detective Story a great noir, has a two gay petty thieves in it.

[Citizen Rules]

Everyone was cool with Pussy Galore joining up and so we have one more Noir to watch. And it's a good one.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/criterion-production/release_boxshots/3124-c40a62a1611d773bdc037c6bc737b6ec/555_box_348x490_original.jpg
Sweet Smell of Success (1957)

[seanc]

I will tell you guys a movie I watched in the last year where I thought the over tones were there and that is Rope. When I watched the extras a few people brought it up, so maybe I catch on sometimes.

[christine]

In Laura Waldo seems to be a composite of the sort of sarcastic writers of the 1940s that the New Yorker was famous for. I like his character, he's as close to a prissy gay man as it was probably allowed to depict at the time. Laura isn't his love interest, she's his trophy he's grooming into society

[Friendly Mushroom!]

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.607999925945566066&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

2.5

I didn't really find the film that interesting and the ending, for me at least, seemed rather boringAll the main characters died, ok. I think there could have been more to it than just that. I'm probably missing something.

Another problem I had was I felt Jane Greer was dull as a character.

Kirk Douglas was the best part of the film as he was the only entertaining person in it. He's awesome.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Not including In a Lonely Place, Wrong Man and Out of the Past which I have seen within the last week, I have seen 5 of the films on the list. Third Man, Laura, Sunset Boulevard, Shadow of a Doubt, and Double Indemnity. Since I saw Sunset and Double about a year ago, I probably won't re-watch them for this HoF. Shadow I definitely will since I nominated it. Third Man too because of all wonderful it is and if I have time, Laura. Its been a while since I saw those three as well.

[Citizen Rules]

I watched Out of the Past last night. What a great Noir.

I agree with Daniel and Goodies that the story was convoluted in the second part and hard to follow at times. That's not a bad thing!....it just means the story is rich in details, with double crosses, frames ups and hidden motives. There's a lot to take in. It's an intelligently written script.

We, the viewer live vicariously through Robert Mitchum's character. We go along for the ride as he tries to out think the opposition.

Amazingly enough the person who wrote the script also wrote the novel that the movie was based on. That's pretty rare for older Hollywood films.

I wrote a review here:
http://www.movieforums.com/reviews/1237350-out-of-the-past.html

[christine]

Watched the Third Man for the first time for quite a few years. Sean has chosen a masterpiece with post war Vienna as the star. The Third Man is a perfect film :)

[Citizen Rules]

I'm looking forward to seeing that one too. I only seen once and it was late and I was tired. I bet the second time around it will be even better.

[Daniel M]

I watched The Big Combo a couple of nights ago. Great film.

I think I enjoyed it a lot because although it's a noir, for a lot of the time it is just a straight up crime film and it has everything you would want from that, a evil boss, a couple of henchmen, inter-gang rivalries, woman and past enemies etc. There seems to be quite a lot of sub-stories to be explored throughout, there's really an awful lot going on in this relatively short movie.

Richard Conte (Who I recognised, and found out is in The Godfather) is brilliant as the bad guy, I think he steals the show here. That's not to say the other performances aren't great, but I really loved him, he looks and acts the part perfectly. The film is quite violent for its time too, lots of murders take place, and you never know what's around the corner, some moments really surprised me which is good. There's of course the unusual but brilliant torture scenes which you'll never forget after watching this. There's loads of other weird but great little touches, an implied sexual act that seems very audacious for its time, and the hinted homosexual relationship between the henchmen.

Helen Walker's weird performance (or character) threatens to derail proceedings, but thankfully again it's just a minor complaint. Many have said that this would probably be better regarded if it had a better main star or director, and that's probably right. It's a surprise perhaps that no one has tried to remake the film, it could potentially make a great two-three hour crime 'epic', at times actually, the film seemed to me like a one man version of The Untouchables.

[christine]

Remember when you're watching The Third Man for anyone who doesn't know, that what you're seeing in the film is the real post war Vienna, the real bomb sites, the real deprivations. The screenplay was written by one of Britain's finest writers, the plot and the dialogue are superb. The unsubtitled German spoken in some scenes give the film an immediacy that drives the plot along at a cracking pace. Such a good film!

[Citizen Rules]

Christine, I'm glad you posted that. We're so use to seeing 'Hollywood magic', that when a real set such as bombed out Vienna is used, we think it fake.

Daniel I haven't seen The Big Combo. I think I enjoyed it a lot because although it's a noir, for a lot of the time it is just a straight up crime film and it has everything you would want from that, a evil boss, a couple of henchmen, inter-gang rivalries, woman and past enemies etc. I like that kind of noir too. A very straight up noir that I love is Detoured. And a favorite straight up crime noir that's violent is This Gun for Hire. I bet you would really like both of those.

[Citizen Rules]

What's the next Noir you guys will be watching? I'd like to have more conversation, critiquing and even friendly debating and so if some of us were watching the same film that might happen more.

So let me know and I will try to watch what you guys are watching.:)

[christine]

Its great taking part :) I don't know about others but I keep reading someone's comments about a film then when I watch it I have to scroll back through ten pages to find out what they said!

[seanc]

I need to get rolling on this. The only one I have watched so far is The Big Combo. I should have some free time this weekend so I will try and knock out two or three. I am going to start with Out Of The Past I think.

[seanc]

Its great taking part :) I don't know about others but I keep reading someone's comments about a film then when I watch it I have to scroll back through ten pages to find out what they said!

I end up doing that a lot during these too. Someone mentioned having a separate thread for the movies once we start watching. I may try that for the sixth HOF.

[christine]

I think that's a great idea myself Sean.

[Kaplan]

Daniel I haven't seen The Big Combo. I like that kind of noir too. A very straight up noir that I love is Detoured. And a favorite straight up crime noir that's violent is This Gun for Hire. I bet you would really like both of those.

Before going with The Big Combo, I considered This Gun for Hire as a nomination, but I would have had to rewatch it first. But I really like it, and I think Veronica Lake was the most stunningly beautiful actress of the old Hollywood era. She had something of a tragic life as well, having turned into an alcoholic and later developing cirrhosis of the liver.

[gbgoodies]

Before going with The Big Combo, I considered This Gun for Hire as a nomination, but I would have had to rewatch it first. But I really like it, and I think Veronica Lake was the most stunningly beautiful actress of the old Hollywood era. She had something of a tragic life as well, having turned into an alcoholic and later developing cirrhosis of the liver.


I liked The Big Combo, but it seemed a bit more predictable than some of the other noir movies. Most of the plot twists seemed pretty easy to see them coming.

I didn't see much point in making the thugs Fante and Mingo a gay couple. It didn't do anything to enhance the story.

I thought the use of the hearing aid, both for loudness and for silence, was brilliant.

[gbgoodies]

You watch a good number of movies, I'm impressed. But I wish you'd post your Noir reviews in the HoF thread, too. We could use more discussion there.


Kaplan, you're absolutely right. I should be posting more thoughts here, in addition to my logbook thread. It's kind of hard to talk about a lot of these movies without giving out spoilers because there are so many twist and turns in most of these movies, but I'll start by copying over some of my spoiler-free thoughts from my other thread, and we'll see where we can go from there as people watch the movies.

[gbgoodies]

Double Indemnity (1944) - This movie was a re-watch because I've seen it before, but it's been a long time since I saw it, so it wasn't fresh in my mind before watching it again.

This is a great suspense film that will keep your attention from start to finish. It moves at a slow, steady pace, so don't expect a bunch of action scenes, like car chases, but that works well for this movie. It has some minor issues, not plot holes, but just a few little annoyance type of things, but nothing that hurts the movie even a little bit. Overall, this is an excellent movie with great performances from the entire cast.

I think I may have already mentioned the minor issues, but I don't have time to go looking through this thread to find them, so I'll restate them just in case I'm wrong.

It doesn't make sense that Neff falls in love with Phyllis so quickly. He's barely known her for a day, and he's already willing to help her kill her husband?

I understand why they needed a signal when Neff was hiding in the car, but why would they use three horn honks? Why would they risk using something loud that will draw attention to the car, when they could have just as easily used a code word instead?

[gbgoodies]

In a Lonely Place (1950) - This is another re-watch of a movie that I haven't seen in a while, so it wasn't fresh in my mind before watching it.

Humphrey Bogart stars as Dixon Steele, a screenwriter who is suspected of murder when the girl he was with the previous night is found dead. Gloria Grahame plays Laurel Gray, his neighbor who is his alibi for the night of the murder. She falls in love with him, but begins to have doubts about his innocence when she sees his violent temper.

This movie is a suspenseful drama with emotional ups and downs like a roller-coaster. It's a brilliant story with excellent performances by both Bogart and Grahame, maybe even the best performance of Bogart's career.

I never thought of Bogart as a handsome man, so I liked that instead of her saying that she noticed him because he was handsome, good-looking, or anything like that, she said that she noticed him because his face was interesting.

About the ending, I don't think it would have made any difference if the phone call had come a day earlier. Either way, I don't think they would have ended up together. He had too much of a violent nature, and it was only a matter of time before he blew up about something. She was going to leave him eventually regardless.

[gbgoodies]

Laura (1944) - This is another re-watch of a movie that I've seen before, but this movie was my nomination, so you can probably guess that I love this movie.

Gene Tierney is absolutely beautiful, so it's easy to see why everyone falls in love with Laura, even the detective who investigates her murder. The acting is amazing by everyone, especially Clifton Webb who gives a standout performance. Even Vincent Price, who is best known for his horror movies, shows that he could have been a great dramatic actor too. The best word that I can use to describe the music is haunting. It's perfect to set the mood of the film.

Due to a major plot twist, it's almost impossible to talk about this movie without giving away a major spoiler. The mystery deepens when Laura shows up alive, and Det. McPherson has to figure out who was actually the murder victim. Everything seems to point to Shelby as the murderer, but things aren't always as they seem.

[gbgoodies]

Out of the Past (1947) - This movie was one of the few movies nominated that I hadn't seen already, so it was a first-time watch for me.

This is a great movie with a dark storyline, and surprises around every corner. The dialogue is intelligent, and the acting is superb. I was very impressed with Kirk Douglas in one of his very early roles. This is an edge-of-your-seat thriller that should not be missed.

The first half is much more straight-forward, as we learn about what happened in Jeff Bailey's past that made him leave his past life behind. When we come back to the present day, it begins to get a lot more confusing. There are so many twists and turns that you don't know who can be trusted.

I watched this movie the same night that I watched the 1984 remake, Against All Odds, and there's no question that the original is far superior to the remake. The dialogue was so much better in the original, it's almost like watching a totally different story. I'm a big fan of both Jeff Bridges and James Woods, but even the acting was lacking a bit in the remake.

[Citizen Rules]

I end up doing that a lot during these too. Someone mentioned having a separate thread for the movies once we start watching. I may try that for the sixth HOF. That might be a good idea for the 6th HOF. Also you might consider having everyone watch the films in alphabetically order. Even if it's just optional to do so, it would get more people involved in the discussion.

[gbgoodies]

Pickup on South Street (1953) - This is another movie that I hadn't seen already, so it was a first-time watch for me.

The movie has some minor issues, for example, I thought the opening scene was either confusing or possibly intentionally deceptive because Candy looks like she is staring at Skip as if she knows that he's taking something out of her purse, like it's a prearranged pickup, but overall, this is a great movie. The acting is superb, with excellent performances by the entire cast, especially by Richard Widmark and Jean Peters, and a standout performance by Thelma Ritter.

I love where Skip hides his stuff. I thought that was brilliant. I also loved the scene when Skip caresses Candy's face.

I haven't seen many movies with Richard Widmark, but I really liked him a lot in this movie. It made me want to see more of his movies.

[Citizen Rules]

Before going with The Big Combo, I considered This Gun for Hire as a nomination, but I would have had to rewatch it first. But I really like it, and I think Veronica Lake was the most stunningly beautiful actress of the old Hollywood era. She had something of a tragic life as well, having turned into an alcoholic and later developing cirrhosis of the liver. She had such a tragic life. On one of the DVDs I watched a documentary on Veronica. Her life in some ways was very much like Gene Tierney. I agree with you she was indeed beautiful.

You know maybe when this Noir Hof is done, we could do a noir tournament of some sort. I was actually on the verge of doing that when the special HoFs were announced. I still would like to do a tournament style Noir, as that's where you get many unknown but good noirs, going head to head in a pair up.

[gbgoodies]

Shadow of a Doubt (1943) - This movie was a re-watch of a movie that I've seen several times already.

The movie isn't perfect, mostly due to the odd relationship between young Charlie and the detective, Jack. He seems too old for her, and there was little chemistry between them. However this is a brilliant and suspenseful thriller that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Joseph Cotten is excellent as lovable Uncle Charlie, as he slowly becomes the face of evil. The scenes with Joseph Newton, Charlotte's father, (Henry Travers), and their neighbor Herbie Hawkins, (Hume Cronyn), discussing the perfect murder are among the highlights of the movie.

[gbgoodies]

Sunset Blvd. (1950) - This was a re-watch of a movie that I've seen before, and it just gets better with every viewing.

This movie is different than a lot of other noir films because Norma is not the normal femme fatale. She's delusional, and even somewhat pathetic. This movie isn't about gangsters and detectives, or romances and deception. It's about the darker side of Hollywood.

From the opening scene, to the final moments, this movie is brilliant. The performances by William Holden and Gloria Swanson are magnificent. There are some of the most memorable lines in movie history, and even some notable cameo appearances.

[Citizen Rules]

Goodies thanks for posting all that:) I'll want to comment/discuss those film that I've seen. But right now I'm just about to leave for grocery shopping:( (would Robert Mitchum go grocery shopping?)
http://shadowsandsatin.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/32jeffs-look-after-k-shoots-f1.jpg

[gbgoodies]

The Lady from Shanghai (1947) - This was another re-watch of a movie that I've seen before, but it didn't quite live up to my memories of the movie.

Overall this is a very good movie, with some great suspenseful moments, especially the mirror room scene, but the who-done-it plot gets a bit complicated at times.

The acting was good, but I found Welles' Irish accent to be a bit of a distraction. I doubt it was intentional, but the accent kind of made him sound like someone who is "slow", which would explain why he would be dumb enough to sign a confession for a murder that he didn't actually commit.

[gbgoodies]

Goodies thanks for posting all that:) I'll want to comment/discuss those film that I've seen. But right now I'm just about to leave for grocery shopping:(


I'm kind of rushing through the last few because I have to leave in a few minutes too, but hopefully we can discuss some of the movies later, and again after some more people have watched them. These movies are very hard to discuss without giving out spoilers.

[gbgoodies]

The Big Combo (1955) - This is another movie that I hadn't seen already, so this was a first-time watch for me.

This is a good movie, but it's a bit more violent than some of the other noir movies because of the sadistic nature of Mr. Brown. There are a few unexpected plot twists, but some predictable scenes too.

I didn't find that there was any chemistry between any of the couples, either Diamond and Susan, or Mr. Brown and Susan. And like i said earlier, I think the plot point of thugs Fante and Mingo being gay was just unnecessary. It added nothing to the story.

[Citizen Rules]

Laura (1944)... I love this movie.

Gene Tierney is absolutely beautiful, so it's easy to see why everyone falls in love with Laura, even the detective who investigates her murder. Indeed she is beautiful in a unique way. Gene has a special quality that works so well in this film. She seems pensive, as if her mind was a million miles a way. In the movie they describe Laura as being kind and sweet, but she doesn't seem that way to me. Shes more aloof, mysterious, and classy....Anybody agree? disagree?


The acting is amazing by everyone, especially Clifton Webb who gives a standout performance. Even Vincent Price, who is best known for his horror movies, shows that he could have been a great dramatic actor too. The best word that I can use to describe the music is haunting. It's perfect to set the mood of the film. No doubt about that, all the actors are very good. The pacing, the edits, the composition and especially the music all done to perfection.

[gbgoodies]

Indeed she is beautiful in a unique way. Gene has a special quality that works so well in this film. She seems pensive, as if her mind was a million miles a way. In the movie they describe Laura as being kind and sweet, but she doesn't seem that way to me. Shes more aloof, mysterious, and classy....Anybody agree? disagree?



I agree about Laura. She seems more mysterious than sweet, but we didn't meet her until after the murder. She was most likely in shock. She may even have been a different person before she found out that someone who loved her, possibly even someone she loved, was trying to kill her. If you were in her position, wouldn't you be shocked and deep in thought all the time until you figured out who was trying to kill you?

[Citizen Rules]

Laura Spoilers Don't we first meet Laura in flashbacks before the murder occurred? And if that's correct, she still didn't seem all sweetness and light, but aloof. I think we're seeing the real Gene Tierney peeking through the Laura character. That quality of hers is what made her a star. Sure she's pretty but Hollywood beauties are a dime a dozen. For a contract player to become a star, took that special something and bit of luck too. My favorite performance by Gene was in Leave Her to Heaven. In that role as a beautiful but mentally unstable murder suspect her aloofness really shines.

[gbgoodies]

For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, The Lady From Shanghai is scheduled to air on Turner Classic Movies TONIGHT at 8:00PM EASTERN TIME.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTINGS FOR THE CORRECT TIME IN YOUR TIME ZONE!

[gbgoodies]

Laura Spoilers Don't we first meet Laura in flashbacks before the murder occurred? And if that's correct, she still didn't seem all sweetness and light, but aloof. I think we're seeing the real Gene Tierney peeking through the Laura character. That quality of hers is what made her a star. Sure she's pretty but Hollywood beauties are a dime a dozen. For a contract player to become a star, took that special something and bit of luck too. My favorite performance by Gene was in Leave Her to Heaven. In that role as a beautiful but mentally unstable murder suspect her aloofness really shines.


Yes, but the flashbacks are from Lydecker's point of view. It's his perception of her, not necessarily the "real" Laura.

[seanc]

For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, The Lady From Shanghai is scheduled to air on Turner Classic Movies TONIGHT at 8:00PM EASTERN TIME.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTINGS FOR THE CORRECT TIME IN YOUR TIME ZONE!

You are awesome. That will be one I watch this weekend then.

[Citizen Rules]

Thanks for posting that Goodies I don't have TV service but I'll watch Lady from Shanghai very soon, so we can compare notes.

[gbgoodies]

The Third Man (1949) - This movie was a re-watch of a movie that I've seen before.

The story is good, but the atmosphere is what really makes this movie great. The atmosphere is perfect giving the movie a haunting feeling. Some of the music is good, but at times, the music gets a bit annoying. There are some great suspenseful and memorable scenes, especially the sewer chase scene.

Joseph Cotten is the real star of this movie with an outstanding performance.

When he tries to prove his friend's innocence, he ends up proving just the opposite, and being the person who kills him. And Orson Welles' first appearance is one of the most memorable scenes in the movie.

[gbgoodies]

The Wrong Man (1956) - This movie was a re-watch of a movie that I've seen before. It's not my favorite Hitchcock movie, but it seems to get better with every re-watch.

The movie has a very dark and depressing feel to it, which works well for this story. Manny is arrested for crimes that he didn't commit, and we follow along with Manny and Rose as they desperately try to find an alibi witness who can prove Manny's innocence, and we feel the devastation they feel each time they come up empty.

One short scene that I hated was the first night Manny spends in jail. He is shown sitting in a jail cell, and the screen begins to move in a spiral motion. I found that annoying.

The ending felt like kind of a letdown. There is a notation that Rose got better, and they were a happy family again, but it would have been nice to actually see them on screen, laughing and enjoying themselves, rather than just words on the screen.

[Citizen Rules]

Did anybody watch Lady From Shanghai?

I watched it on DVD last night.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

I have it on DVD from the library. 90% of the time I watch movies from the library.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Haven't seen it though.

[Citizen Rules]

If you have the official DVD, there's a very interesting interview with Peter Bogdanovich. He knew Orson Welles and talks about Orson and Lady From Shanghai.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Back of the DVD says Peter Bogdanovich Audio Commentary. That should be it.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608034491848459375&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

This is how my DVD looks like but the bottom right has DVD video and has a quote from The Motion Picture Guide above Hayworth's head.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Sorry if this has already been answered but when's the due date for one to watch all of the films for this HoF?

[Citizen Rules]

About the 1st of April, but it looks like everyone will be done sooner.

[gbgoodies]

Sweet Smell of Success (1957) - This movie was a first-time watch for me.

This movie has a different feel than some of the other noir movies because it's not about the gangsters, but it's about power and greed in the behind-the-scenes world of fame. Burt Lancaster and Tony Curtis both give top-notch performances, while Susan Harrison and Martin Milner are both impressive in supporting roles.

The story was interesting, although it was a bit predictable at times, but the only likable character in the movie is Milner's Steve Dallas, especially when he stands up to J.J. Without giving away any spoilers, I have mixed feelings about the ending, specifically about what happens to Falco.

This is a good movie, but it wasn't my favorite of the noir films. (Although I think I'm beginning to like Tony Curtis more and more every time I see him in a movie that I've never seen before.)

[gbgoodies]

The Set-Up (1949) - This movie was a first-time watch for me. After reading the synopsis of the movie, I intentionally left this for last because it's about boxing, which I hate, so I had low expectations for this movie. (Nothing against the movie itself. Boxing is just not my thing. I'll never understand why two people would want to go into a ring and beat the living daylights out of each other. :shrug: )

As expected, this wasn't one of my favorite films, but that's mainly because I tended to lose interest during the boxing scenes. However I liked the story about the boxer refusing to back down. This is a much more straight-forward story than most of the noir movies. It doesn't have all the twist and turns of the other movies.

When the gangsters break Stoker's hand, it brought back memories of the scene in The Hustler when they break Newman's character's thumbs.

Keep in mind that the only boxing movie that I like is the 1979 version of The Champ with Jon Voight and Ricky Schroder, but I haven't seen some of the highly rated boxing movies like Raging Bull, Rocky, and Million Dollar Baby.

[seanc]

My anticipation for The Set-up is the opposite of yours goodies, for the opposite reason.:D That is why they make all kinds of different movies. I am going to try to get to this, Out Of The Past, and Shanghai this weekend. Plus I am planning on seeing Sniper and Foxcatcher at the theater. Going to be a movie filled weekend.

[gbgoodies]

My anticipation for The Set-up is the opposite of yours goodies, for the opposite reason.:D That is why they make all kinds of different movies. I am going to try to get to this, Out Of The Past, and Shanghai this weekend. Plus I am planning on seeing Sniper and Foxcatcher at the theater. Going to be a movie filled weekend.


If you like boxing, you'll probably like The Set-Up. It's a pretty good movie once you get past the violence of boxing.

I'm not much of a movie theater person anymore since the ticket prices here hit almost $15 a ticket. For that price, it's worth it for me to wait for the movies to hit DVD, cable, or even commercial TV. We have a few used DVD stores around here that sell the newer movies for under $10 within about a week or two of release, and the flea markets sometimes have the used DVDs for $3 or less.

However I do want to see Birdman. It sounds interesting, and I like Michael Keaton.

[seanc]

I probably wouldn't go more than three or four times a year if tickets were $15. Still under $10 here. If you go to the 4-5pm show its $6 here. The trade off is we don't get everything, but I will take that trade every time.

[gbgoodies]

I probably wouldn't go more than three or four times a year if tickets were $15. Still under $10 here. If you go to the 4-5pm show its $6 here. The trade off is we don't get everything, but I will take that trade every time.


The only theater around here with a before 6PM price is almost a half hour away, and I would lose work time, so it's not worth it to me. It's just one of the drawbacks of living right on the border of New York City. Everything is more expensive around here. :(

[seanc]

I remember.

[Citizen Rules]

Howdy Fellow Noirians...I wrote a long winded review of Lady From Shanghai. This is a much shorter excerpt.

...Orson's rough cut of the film was 155 minutes. Studio executives ordered it cut to 90 minutes. Welles' then sent detailed instructions to the film editor on how and where to edit the film. Sadly his wishes were ignored.

What we get today is a choppy film with an hour missing from it. You can see where some of the scenes were shortened. There's a sloppy jump edit, during a close up of George Grisby (Glenn Anders) towards the beginning of the film when he's in a car with Orson. Latter in the film it happens again.

In several places, most notably on the yacht, the scenes are choppy with quick edits and the scenes feel unfinished. One gets the feeling there was more dialogue at once.

The most famous cut to the film is the fun house mirror scene. We can only guess at the symbolic, cinematic achievements Orson made here, what we can see of the fun house scene is potent.

Much of Orson's trademark cinematography is apparent in the film. The spy glass triple diffuse to Rita Hayworth via a closeup of Glenn Anders is amazing! As is the fore mentioned Fun House scene.

[seanc]

Lady From Shanghai: I enjoyed this quite a bit. Very plot heavy, so I would probably like the longer version better for sure. I never felt connected completely. That is not necessary of course, but almost always happens with movies that become my favorites. That ending is outstanding, I just wish I cared about it more when we got there.

I stopped doing star ratings for my HOF watches until it is over with.

Thanks for nominating this Daniel. Welles is a director and actor that I keep becoming more and more enamored with.