WAR ON IRAQ:BIG mistake

I'd love to go back to Iraq. But I think Yoda is in the process of banning me forever. So whatever. I won't take back what I said. I think Yoda's views are very extreme and I don't like them at all. I didn't call HIM anything..just his views I dont HAVE to think his views are right. Whatever, if i get banned I know its because he didnt want me speaking anymore of the truth.

Of course we're debating about facts; that's what happens when you make claims about what did or did not happen. You'd rather spit out some epic speech about fighting for freedom than actually stop and demonstrate that the things you're saying are even true to begin with. If I were really ignorant, you'd have demonstrated it, rather than just stated it again and again.


Of course you don't "go around banning" me. You don't do it because a) you don't have the power to, and b) I don't hurl ridiculous accusations of terrorism at people who disagree with me. You'll notice several people in this thread have taken issue with my defense of Israel. None of them are being banned. Why? Because they are reasonable and mature about it. That's all I require of anyone here.


Yes, I am banning you. You were warned. And no, you didn't call my VIEWS terrorist. Have you really forgotten your own words so quicky?

"...you are a bigger terrorist than Israel itself."
"And you are a terrorist."

You're right, you don't have to think I'm right. No one does. And I suspect several other people will continue to disagree with my defense of Israel here. But they'll do so without lowering themselves to comparing those who disagree with them to murderers.

Oh, looks lke its official...I am banned. Funny how one gets banned because of a thread about war on Iraq.

Do what you have to do. Can I be more mature than that?

You're kidding, right? I don't see what I've said that I should be embarrassed about. Enlighten me.

I realize you're trying to stay "above the fray" by not taking sides, but implying that I'm operating on the same level of conduct as Spidey here is beyond the pale. I'm providing sources and asking for evidence, and he's saying things like "you're a terrorist" and "you must be jewish."

I just read this whole thread and couldn’t find one line where Yoda even remotely sank to the level Spider did… what I did read was Yoda giving historical data (that with a few minutes of research, could be backed up)… and Yoda requesting that Spider do the same pertaining to his accusations… instead, Spider resorted to childish name calling and a few temper tantrums that would have made a 5 year old proud… if anyone should be embarrassed it is definitely not Yoda…


Anyway, pertaining to Iraq…. I was watching a program about Saddam on the History Channel the other night and it occurred to me that everyone had been having a fit about not finding “weapons of mass destruction” … but we did… hiding in a rat hole.

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alright, fine you didn't "name call" but he is my friend and you two were infact "going at it" (aruging that is) pretty heated-ly and as a friend of Spider-man I felt I had to step in, make him cool off and realize that it wasn't going nowhere... that's honestly was my only intention and now that he's gone with his ending few post I can't say he wasn't asking for it but I'm sad all the same.

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And like that .... he's gone

I never liked the guy. Good riddance.

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"Today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."

Here is a great website from documentarian John Pildger, Should have what you want.


I am not talking simply about the USA not doing any thing but suppotring it.

Why has the USA gone into Iraq twice, shouldnt they "Share the Love"?

[quote-Yoda]One country alone cannot fix the world's problems. It must be a joint-effort. And criticizing the countries that put just a piece or two of the puzzle in place simply because they didn't do it all themselves can only discourage others from stepping up to the plate.[/quote]

But you are helping create problems.

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It's a god-awful small affair, To the girl with, the mousy hair, But her mummy is yelling "No", and her daddy has told her to go, But her friend is nowhere to be seen, Now she walks through her sunken dream, To the seat with the clearest view, And she's hooked to the silver screen, But the film is a saddening bore, For she's lived it ten times or more...

well. That's the most appropriate smilie I can find to express my disappointment at that comment.

As far as I can tell, SPIDEI2_MAN__ is an overexcited kid, whose obvious actual intention was to point out that Yoda supported state terrorism. Yeah, ok, he was being an immature prick. But his arguments are very typical of those used in forums populated by shall we say, younger folks. His banning was very fast and it's surprising that barely anyone seemed to care about the hate mail supposedly sent to him.
But anyway, that's your problem.

Bottom line though: I am 100% against the war on terror as it is so branded. Not for any particular political cares or anything like that, though I do believe the whole enterprise entirely lacks focus. Rather because it kills people, like my brother in law who is now a statistic.

Something smells bad here. The EU has decalred it will not provide economic support for anyone who fails to fully support the war on terror, in a move which will apparently ensure the safety of their citizens.

HA. I haven't come here very often recently, but this fair shocked me. I did a quick search on "Madrid" and came up with nothing about the recent bombing. No one wishes to express their condolences?

And now we have the assassination of sheikh Yassin too. Universal scorn poured on that act by every administration bar the US. Sharon is defiant, insisting he will carry on with his war on terror. But this is nothing but a spiralling tower of blood and violence.

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Mr M Rides Again

MoFo Survivor - r3port3r66 wins!!!!!!

I support the idea of removing Saddam, but it needs to be done right.

I think it's been done very badly in certain key areas.

Therefore i opposed the invasion from its inception because of concerns about...

-the lessened chances of an improved and stable and nation forming
-the unresolved political climate and profit-motives surrounding the regime-change.
-the inter-relation of these things with the "war" on terrorism.

I worry about all of these things mainly because of the approach of the Bush-admin.

There's no way to talk about any of this briefly, but basically, here's the central thing they needed to get right, but didn't.

-Establishing a broad coalition

Not achieving this has knock on effects for:
-ensuring solid investment of manpower and money in Iraq
-establishing a broad base for global interventions with a peace-prospectus (and thus ensuring the US doesn't get over-stretched internationally too)
-co-ordinating effectively and freely on everything from counter-terrorism, to future regime-change, to oil-negotiation etc.

These things were achievable. The US is about the only country that could have brought about a broad-based Iraq invasion.

The Bush-admin lost that opportunity, and others, coz the Bush-admin wasn't interested in them.

They should have been.

The advantages of their bullish "unilateral" approach are undermined by the negatives IMO (i.e poor "after-war-care" for Iraq, and the neglected Afghanistan etc; increased international "grass-roots terrorism" recruitment; lessened respect/response for US criticism of oppressive regimes; lessened US ability to instigate action against oppressive regimes etc etc)

You know some of the details of my arguments. There are more. Feel free to pick on what points you will....for the longer answers

Nah, i think your first analogy is good. The religiously dogmatic will bite deep and they won't let go, like animals.

For that reason i see the Brit facilitation of this nation-formation as an irresponsible action. I certainly think you're giving it too much weight with regards to validating Israels "right" to the land. It was a "legal" action, sure. But it was "legal" to form Iraq. The question is, was it wise? Will Iraq always need a dictatorship to keep its fractious factions "unified"? Will the racial and religious differences between Israelis and "Arabs", placed side-by-side, ever establish a peaceful co-existance?

As it is, i see both sides as aggressors. I think Sharon, and Peres the opposition leader, are right to be pushing for an exit from Gaza etc. That's a step in the right direction, away from unwarrented aggression.

I also think Peres was right when he said Hamas hurts the Palestinians as well as the Israelis.

And God knows Yassin probably deserves to be dead. It's just a question of whether his death in this way will lessen or increase suffering and death overall.

We are but human


Cool. I look forward to discussing the pros and cons of this one (again, i see approach as being key. And i'm really not a fan of the Bush-admin's approach. Again ).

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Virtual Reality chatter on a movie site? Got endless amounts of it here. Reviews over here

I’m crushed… my entire existence revolves around your approval… But if you knew me at all, you would know my comment was aimed at his attitude… not his opinions…


You know… based on your comments, it’s rather obvious you either didn’t take the time to read this whole thread or else I have misread the posts… and I can’t help but find it a bit ironic that you are absent from this forum for weeks and then when you do show, you, once again, appear to be questioning the fact a member was banned… apparently assuming, once again, the ban was based on opinion rather then conduct… but anyway, that’s your problem.

Just out of curiosity though, are you saying members should be excused for their conduct based on their age? If so, at what age do you feel they should be held accountable? Spider is supposed to be 18... legally that puts him past “kid” status… and why do you think he was banned “very fast” ? He’s been here for a year… Also, in which post did you conclude that Yoda supported a terrorist state… I couldn’t find it…

I'll get back to the debates at hand in a bit. Just wanted to note that I've talked to Spidey, and have agreed to reinstate him. It seems that these issues strike a very personal chord for him (for understandable reasons), and so I'm willing to let it slide this time. Hopefully everyone will manage to be civil from now on.

Terror's a very broad term. We all seem to prove that everyday. (i reckon it's time it got redefined/clarified in its common usage, but there we go)

I think "state terrorism" actually fits some of Israel's actions well. I think "terrorism" (in its old definition) is the correct term for Hamas's actions, too. They both use aggressive tactics to inspire fear and try and get their own way.

I think anyone who tries to excuse either side, or say the blame lies soley with the other, is off base.

What's sad about race/religion-based "terrorism"/war is that it's self-perpetuating, and it has no easy solution (mass annihilation or overwhelming-generational-grief seeming to be the only ones)

What's even sadder is that international "al Qaeda"-vs-"the West" terror has the potential to grow into a new, broad, parallel of that despicable national situation. That's if both sides get more and more entrenched in how they percieve eachother. And the death toll continues to rise.

Hooray. "To ban one life from Mofo would be a misfortune, two ban two looks like caring-less-ness".

Well done oh compassionate one. Even if i do think webhead needs to dunk his head in a bucket of water.

Now, if you could just get a written statement from Django promising he'd be good and actually discuss points, you'd get a Sainthood

Its nice to know that somone cares about me.
Thanks Kaisersoze.

Oh, this is coming from the guy who made a truce with me just a week ago about being cool with me. Strange how the truth comes out when I am not looking, right Slaytan? Anyways, its up to you not to like me, but I haven't done anything to you, and I think you owe me an explanation.

Another thanks to someone who understands me. And also thank you for even remembering about the hate mail, which was never looked into. Oh well. Thank you anyways Revenge (Even though you were slighty off about me being an overexcited kid, I am more of a goofball).

This is coming from the very first person I met on this forum. Not only was Caitlyn my "welcomer" into the forum, but I also use her signature as my Senior Quote for our yearbook which is to be printed in only 27 days. So, therefore, No Comment.

Oh..I'mmmmmmm back!!!!

Do you really think I care whether you know how I feel? I made a truce, yes...but you reverted back to your over the top ranting and accusatory bull. I don't like the way you behave, we've finally got rid of somebody just like that after a year of his crap...and you have done something to me, you have insulted me and the people here who have civil discourse and are also my friends. You rub me the wrong way. Maybe because Django put such a foul taste in my mouth with a year of the same attitude is what makes this so, I don't know. I don't care. If you quit flying off the handle I'd probably warm to you, I don't know that either. Why the hell do you care? I don't.

How mature of you. I think maybe you and I should just not talk, anymore. Sorry it didn't work between us (I sound like im breaking up with you or something)..well since im on it..its not you..its me, sorry. I'm sure you will find another man.

lol, i am kidding man. Its a shame we couldn't get along oh well...

ok back to the TOPIC..
What do you guys think about what has been happening in Israel in the past few days?

Richard Clarke a former counter-terrorism advisor to the bush adminstration publicly accussed President Bush of linking Iraq to the attacks of Sept. 11. 01 despite being advised that Iraq had little or no direct links to the attacks.

he added

In my opinion, I find Clarke's accusations highly beilevable, all attempts to address or discredit Clarke thus far are attacks upon his character... they did not directly address the accusations but judged Clarke's character, I find that they are trying to celverly change the topic by attacking his character which is verifiable by few than addressing the issues with facts verifiable by many. In fact the only way the adminstration has addressed the problem thus far is denying that such a conversation existed all together.

Either way this is becomming a HE said / He Said battle and at this point in time I feel that NEITHER interpertation is no longer important. What is important is that we fix up Iraq, the war is fought and no matter what the outcome of "the truth" will reverse the damage to the land in IRAQ. Instead of putting the money and manpower into investigating whether or not the war is justified is not nearly as important than that of IRAQI citizens having homes. During the 60s the goverment did not want to spend an extra serveral million dollars to represent the years in 4 digits on their supercomputers leading to the Y2K bug prophechy which costed the WORLD slightly over 1 TRILLION in 1999. What we have to realize is the longer we delay and debate the more we can expect it to cost us in the long run. President Bush needs to sh*t up, swallow his pride and finish what he started.

Are you trying to bait me?

I thought about it a bit more last night and came to the conclusion that saying I never liked you was too extreme. Until that one day where you got angry and became rude to me and a few others, I had hardly noticed you (that's not a slam). That was the first time you acted that way, and it's unfair of me to hold you to a standard that I myself have failed to achieve a number of times. I have blown up at Yoda and a couple of others more than once during my tenure here, so who am I to judge you? It's probably that very weakness of having a quick temper that you and I both seem to share that makes it where you rub me the wrong way; I see a bit of myself in you, that is. Since you have only done this twice in an entire year, you actually have a better record than me. So, in other words; I apologize. You're not an *******, you're human.

Brian