Obama!!!

I am usually the last to ever think racism is playing a role in something like this, but I've been so flat-out amazed at the hatred toward Obama. I can only assume some of it is racist. On the liberal blogs I frequent, I can tell you that most people realize it is just a fringe group that is running on racism. It's all about the over the top hatred. That was what Carter was referring to. It's hard to believe that much hatred can be based just on policy differences.

The other thing that is causing such hatred is this "socialist" crap. And speaking of that....

This is for Karl: http://www.zoza.org/~corsican/socialism.html

Oh, and 7thson, how can anyone disagree with America being energy independent and at peace with the Middle East? How? That was often Carter's desire.

I've heard there are those who say he's actually the backside of one of the Four Horsemen's steeds.

Are the conservatives' complaints on the same level as the liberals pouring funding into Acorn for all these years? Sometimes the complainers are right--even Democrats are now distancing themselves from the Acorn scandal.

Carter. Good man. Good heart. Turned out of office as a total failure as President.

I could ask about the lesser known corporate cronies of W., sure they weren't incorporated, or were as well-known as acorn, but I seriously doubt they worked pledge drives and held bake sales. Also, I was referring to the healthcare plan, and the accusation that conservatives were leveling about an abortion option. My point was that why is it conservatives act as if they should be immune? They expect liberals to pay for wars they don't support, and subverting scientific research they want. It's the same in both cases. I guess labeling something "conservative values," renders it untouchable, or unavailable for review. Although I can relate to tax money being used in ways one doesn't entirely approve of.

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...uh the post is up there...

Besides, the conservatives fixation on ACORN reeks of racism. I don't know what else it can be. Nothing else makes sense.

let's face it, ACORN's original mission was to help poor families sort out everything from affordable housing to voter registration. Obviously, it seems they haven't been pure in their dealings, but what I've never understood is the hatred that was directed at them in the first place. And somehow bringing up ACORN as being even remotely connected to Filmfreak's point seems pretty ludicrous.

What is it about poor people that makes conservatives so nuts? What do they think, everyone can make a lot of money?

Conservatives come across as self-righteous, close-minded individuals who can't even see how liberals have had to deal with paying taxes for all kinds of things they find abhorrent. The mere fact that my tax dollars paid for Dick Cheney's salary makes me feel rather ill.

Why is that hard to believe? We just experienced eight straight years of it. George W. Bush was the most hated president of all time-- it's not even close. In fact, they made a movie of him being assassinated-- WHILE STILL IN OFFICE.

The amount of hatred, ridicule, and over the top irrationality displayed against Bush is now legendary.

Also, the Republicans ALWAYS hated Bill Clinton, even before he won the presidency. They hated him. Why else would they torment him for the Monica Lewinsky blowjob scandal? Why would they rip this country apart, thereby signaling the beginning to the cultural war between left and right we currently find ourselves in, if they didn't hate him so much?

So tell me, tramp, was Bush hated for eight straight years because of race? Was Bill Clinton relentlessly attacked over a blowjob because of race?

Furthermore, Obama's policies are the most progressive-radical this country has ever seen, at least since FDR. When you have a country that claims the largest percentage of conservatives on the planet, there is obviously going to be strong resistance to such left-wing agendas.

When the answers to your rhetorical question are so obvious and so easily answered, it becomes clear that people like you simply don't wish to actually analyze the issue, but rather lazily throw out the race card. This is why conservatives are getting very angry with the race baiters.

He might be. But my father is a good man with a good heart. And I don't want him calling people racist simply because he thinks people are racists, and when there is no evidence to suggest they are such. Such accusations, tramp, merely intend to end the debate, the conversation, because the accuser has nothing honest or reasonable to say.

It's not moral or rational behavior to do such things.

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Are you okay with Obama's troop increases in Afghanistan?

What about all the liberals who initially supported the war and have since backpedaled away from it (Hillary & Kerry to name a few)? Should they pay for the war since they voted for it?

All of this racism stuff is beyond the pale of ridiculous. It seems that I can't say I disagree with Obama without being called a racist these days.

I'm seriously going to don the moniker of white devil because no matter how much the past is apologized for and no matter how many white men die to protect the rights of ALL Americans some folk (in seemingly increasing numbers) simply cannot get past the victimization mindset.

I watched an interview with Mike Tyson once where he was cussing and being vulgar in typical Mike fashion. Someone asked him why he talked like that and he said that no matter how eloquently he speaks people will perceive him to be how they see him. I can't tell you how many times in the recent past I've said "No, I'm not a racist, I just disagree with Obama". The response is usually something like "So you're a racist then".

I'm not going to make it in this world. I'm only 42 years old and I can't stand it any more. Stupidity has finally become fashionable and normal. A cave in the jungle subsisting on bugs and palm fronds is beginning to look really good right now.

Sorry for the rant, some of it was on topic I hope.

Karl, you are such a perfect example of why conservatives hate. Read your own post. It's full of it. You called me a race baiter. I am no such thing. Neither is Jimmy Carter. He merely stated what people are suspecting. The "birther" movement just doesn't have a rational explanation except some form of racism. What else could it have been?

How about the fixation on ACORN? What is that?

Sir Toose, that is not all people -- it depends on the rhetoric. There are obviously racists who hate Obama. You know that to be true, don't you? I also believe there are many who hate Obama who are not racist. They're just conservatives who hate anything and everybody that isn't conservative like them. They are also fueled by the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, etc... people whose rhetoric is so offensive, I'm appalled they are even in the media.

It's incredible that people can't just disagree without being so ugly about it.

Oh, and Bush deserved the hate he got. When you kill people with lies, you deserve it.

This is why I hate conservative politicians. You nailed it right here.

Lovely, isn't it? That is what our country has come to? People hating each other, simply because they disagree over policy. That's not good enough for conservatives -- no, they have to tear a country apart. Good call there, Karl.

Tramp, I don't hate Obama. For the record I never hated Clinton either. My own political compass doesn't line up with theirs on a variety of issues but as men I'm sure they're decent (and fallible like the rest of us) folks.

Tramp, I don't get you.

You asked a question, and I answered it honestly, rationally and accurately. There is no hatred in it. Maybe you just want to see hatred in every nook and cranny where there are people who hold different views from yourself.

That is what it is beginning to sound like.

Jimmy Carter accused the general opposition to Obama as being racist or as being rooted in racism. That is race baiting pure and simple. You simply can't go around accusing someone of something awful when there is no proof or reasonable justification for it. Like I said, such accusations serve to end a debate when the accuser cannot honestly or rationally add anything to it.

I think the birther movement is ridiculous. But, again, what does that have to do with racism? The liberals did the same thing with Bush when they were trying to gain access to phony documents suggesting he had lied about his military service.

The zealous hate was so thick that Rather actually made a fool of himself on CBS news exhibiting the phony documents before anyone had a second to actually check to see if they were authentic. That is hatred right there.

ACORN. ACORN has been guilty of voter fraud. There's also a strong natural contention there because there's strong evidence that this taxpayer funded group is working solely for the Democratic party-- not the Republican party. But last time I chacked, all taxpayers were funding them, not just registered Democrats.

This type of investigative journalism has been used for years by liberals. Look at Michael Moore's films. He relentlessly hounds and ambushes everyone with whom he doesn't ideologically agree.

Is he a racist?

Well, that's your opinion. The point, however, is that it's possible to be aggressively opposed to someone-- or even hateful-- for reasons other than race.

Why do you keep accusing me of being hateful when you are the one that justified and personally approved of the hatred against another man?

Why is this?

Then you add the following statement:

So, you keep accusing everyone of being hateful, when I never uttered such a thing, but you actually say you HATE an entire group of people. Simply because you do not agree with them.

You need to get your emotions in check. Last time I saw a projection this big I was at a drive in theater.

Have you ever honestly listened to any of those guys? They make solid points on occasion! I've always loved Limbaugh... Beck, not so much. It's not that I agree with everything they say but this is America and freedom of speech is a right. You don't have to buy everything someone says to learn a little something from them. I LIKE a few things Obama has had a part of.

I'm glad you don't hate them and think they're decent people.

And I'll repeat that I'm sorry people say you're racist if you disagree. I don't think that is fair at all, but I do think racism is at the heart of some of what I've seen. There's a kind of racism that exists that is subconscious and borne more in class than race.

I must be living a sheltered life because I've never heard any self-proclaimed liberal or conservative say, "I don't want my taxes to pay for a war but I don't mind if yours do." It's been my experience that opposition to war is pretty much a blanket proposal--it's the war the opponents object to, not who's paying for it. It was true with the opposition to the war in Nam, and it's still true today. Same thing on abortion--opponents pretty much don't want any federal funds going to abortion clinics--yours, mine, or theirs. If they decided to finance the war entirely from the sale of war bonds and rich donator volunteered to fund all abortion clinics so not a single tax dollar went to either, the opponents still would not like it. Bottomline: it goes way beyond tax issues.

Personally, if I were going to cut taxes, I'd start with the salaries paid to the bozos on both sides of the aisle in Washington. If politicians and bureaucrats were paid what they're worth, they'd all be on relief.

By the way, I get a kick out of how folks who don't like Bush always talk about his "cronies." It's used so often it starts to sound funny. "Cronies." I can't say it anymore without smiling! Then there's this image of some poor SOB who never had friends (as did Bill Clinton), or supporters, or pals, or buddies, or companions or co-workers or even conspirators or henchmen. It's always Bush and his "Cronies." After awhile, I almost feel sorry for the poor boob. Meanwhile, I expect that to be an occupation category on the next census--"yes, I held the position of Bush Crony for 20 years prior to my retirement." And it would make a great name for some rock band--"W. and the Cronies!"

No, they do not make solid points. And yes, I have listened. That was when I found out that "liberals" were terrible people. I didn't know that!

They create hatred, division, and fueled an impeachment and a partisanship that is tearing this country apart. They have no desire to understand others. They are mean and petty people. Freedom of speech should be considered carefully when you have the power to influence those who cannot or do not think for themselves. With freedom, comes responsibility. They show none. They are dangerous and I wish they would all disappear. I happen to think punditry and 24 hour news is destroying this country. Then again, I want a perfect world.

Well, I can't promise anything, but I'll try to come back tonight and refute some of the other claims by other posters.

Right now, I have to go cook dinner for a house full of ex convicts/addicts at a half way house. I guess that is the hateful, racist conservative in me.

By the way, what are you doing tonight Tramp?

So, what are you saying, tramp. All poor people are black? Films of ACORN members telling two white people how to doctor federal forms to cover up prostitution and get financing for a whore house is a racist attack? C'mom, you know better. On the other hand, ACORN appears to have successfully stiff-armed all previous investigation by playing the race card and dismissing critics as racist.

Now this is why I love conversing with you, tramp--you're such a master of understatement! Telling someone how to obtain a loan for a cathouse for underaged (and poor) Latin American girls sure doesn't qualify as "pure." I for one have never advocated that ACORN or any other organization be pure--not even the church. But I would hope most were decent, at least to the point of drawing the line on some offending proposals.

Not even remotely connected? He's talking about conservatives objecting to the use of their tax dollars to fund certain activities; I mention an organization funded by tax dollars now in a scandal from which former supporters--including the president--are now trying to distant themselves, and ask if one sees any similarities. Shall I take your answer as a no?

Actually, my original post to Filmfreak was meant as a tongue-in-cheek quip that would elicit a similar teasing comeback. I really didn't expect it to draw blood from him, you, and gawd knows who else. I keep forgetting folks in this forum take politics much more seriously than I, having spent so much time in close proximity to politicians.

Sorry, Karl, but it's your answer that is not even close. There have been several presidents who were hated more than Bush--just not in your lifetime. Go back and see what they said about John Adams and Thomas Jefferson who hated and lambasted each other for years. Lincoln was so hated that 11 states broke from the Union after his election. Even people in his own party, including some in his administration including McClellan, his top general at the time, insulted ol' Abe to his face!. And after he died his successor Andrew Johnson was hated for not being Lincoln! FDR's foes made fun of him being a cripple and accused him of being Jewish. And look at the fallout Truman got after he fired MacArthur. Andrew Jackson drew so much fire that even today some Indians won't accept $20 bills because his picture is on them. Plus lots of minor presidents like Tyler and Harrison and others. Even George Washington was blasted by opponents for "dictatorial" behavior. Bush may have been the most hated in your lifetime, although things were about as nasty for Bill Clinton, but it's small potatoes compared to several previous presidents. In fact, Bush may not even hold the record for your lifetime, if you're old enough to remember how many people hated LBJ, including the brothers of the president he served as VP. Opposition was so strong against Johnson that, like Truman, he didn't even run for a second term.

Well then if you can't concede that it's possible for people you disagree with to make a valid point then political discussion with you goes no where because your mind is made up.

I can take your exact words and apply them to Al Franken or to 3/4 of Hollywood because those folks have just as much opportunity to sway the unwashed masses as Limbaugh et al.

Anyway, I like you as a person and we've found some common ground outside of politics it's all good