Christopher Nolan vs David Fincher

Tools    





David Cronenberg on Nolan and superhero movies:


David, you’ve done drama and horror. Some fairly formidable directors have branched out into superhero movies pretty beautifully —is that something you would consider doing?

DC: I don’t think they are making them an elevated art form. I think it’s still Batman running around in a stupid cape. I just don’t think it’s elevated. Christopher Nolan’s best movie is “Memento,” and that is an interesting movie. I don’t think his Batman movies are half as interesting though they’re 20 million times the expense. What he is doing is some very interesting technical stuff, which, you know, he’s shooting IMAX and in 3-D. That’s really tricky and difficult to do. I read about it in “American Cinematography Magazine,” and technically, that’s all very interesting. The movie, to me, they’re mostly boring.

Do you think the subject matter prohibits the elevated art form?

DC: Absolutely. Anybody who works in the studio system has got 20 studio people sitting on his head at every moment, and they have no respect, and there’s no…it doesn’t matter how successful you’ve been. And obviously Nolan has been very successful. He’s got a lot of power, relatively speaking. But he doesn’t really have power.

So that’s a no.

DC: I would say that’s a no, you know. And the problem is you gotta… as I say, you can do some interesting, maybe unexpected things. And certainly, I’ve made the horror films and people say, “Can you make a horror film also an art film?” And I would say, “Yeah, I think you can.”
But a superhero movie, by definition, you know, it’s comic book. It’s for kids. It’s adolescent in its core. That has always been its appeal, and I think people who are saying, you know, “Dark Knight Rises” is, you know, supreme cinema art," I don’t think they know what the f**k they’re talking about.

http://www.nextmovie.com/blog/robert...olis-interview



i must be honest
i really do hate films made by Nolan
Memento,Prestige,Dark Knight,Inception,i watched them all,before even knowing they are from same director and rated them all with 1 or 2 out of 10
i wish he stop making movies
Why should he stop making films? what is it you don't like about his films that make you hate them?


Unless you were joking but couldn't feel that from your post.



Why should he stop making films? what is it you don't like about his films that make you hate them?


Unless you were joking but couldn't feel that from your post.
I am not joking,that man is ruining Hollywood movies,making them even dumber than they was by making superhero movies popular.
Because of him Hollywood is going even deeper in depending on only Homer Simpson type of teenagers,that eats popcorn and scream ,,awesome!,,...that is not art,that is flat entertainment for masses...
Even if i didn't like Memento and Prestige,i think he should continue making movies like that,not action craps.
I am not saying he is bad director,he really is a genius and a true artist,man with vision,but he decided to go in commercial sea,where hes is limited by people who are not generally really interested in art,so he cant show his true potential,and not free to make pure masterpiece how he imagine it...
He is finest example of true artist ruined by Hollywood.



He is finest example of true artist ruined by Hollywood.
I'll just reference this bit and say I really don't think he's too influenced because he's had a legion of opportunities to utilize his "genius" as you put it, but he relies far too much on explaining every damn thing that he could never get to the point of making any statements. He does try to tackle big topics but skims the surface. I think that's why a lot of people have a better time talking about his movies than they do watching them.



David Cronenberg on Nolan and superhero movies:


David, you’ve done drama and horror. Some fairly formidable directors have branched out into superhero movies pretty beautifully —is that something you would consider doing?

DC: I don’t think they are making them an elevated art form. I think it’s still Batman running around in a stupid cape. I just don’t think it’s elevated. Christopher Nolan’s best movie is “Memento,” and that is an interesting movie. I don’t think his Batman movies are half as interesting though they’re 20 million times the expense. What he is doing is some very interesting technical stuff, which, you know, he’s shooting IMAX and in 3-D. That’s really tricky and difficult to do. I read about it in “American Cinematography Magazine,” and technically, that’s all very interesting. The movie, to me, they’re mostly boring.

Do you think the subject matter prohibits the elevated art form?

DC: Absolutely. Anybody who works in the studio system has got 20 studio people sitting on his head at every moment, and they have no respect, and there’s no…it doesn’t matter how successful you’ve been. And obviously Nolan has been very successful. He’s got a lot of power, relatively speaking. But he doesn’t really have power.

So that’s a no.

DC: I would say that’s a no, you know. And the problem is you gotta… as I say, you can do some interesting, maybe unexpected things. And certainly, I’ve made the horror films and people say, “Can you make a horror film also an art film?” And I would say, “Yeah, I think you can.”
But a superhero movie, by definition, you know, it’s comic book. It’s for kids. It’s adolescent in its core. That has always been its appeal, and I think people who are saying, you know, “Dark Knight Rises” is, you know, supreme cinema art," I don’t think they know what the f**k they’re talking about.

http://www.nextmovie.com/blog/robert...olis-interview
Yeah, i've read this yesterday. Man, I think Cronenberg is one of the all time greats, no doubt there, and obviously I agree with him about Memento being Nolan's best film, but his comments regarding 'superhero' themed films come across as a bit brash and old fashioned.

It's also a bit ironic considering A History Of Violence is adapted from a comic book :/

Also, what's with mentioning the 3D thing? Nolan has and will never touch 3D. This article makes me think he saw a couple of action scenes from the Batman films and made up his own mind from there. Hate to say it but I detect a slight bit of jealousy from Cronenberg.



I am not joking,that man is ruining Hollywood movies,making them even dumber than they was by making superhero movies popular.
Do you even know what you are talking about, mate? Ruining Hollywood? Making films dumber by making 'superhero movies popular'?

First of all, they are called 'films' not 'superhero movies'. Secondly, graphic novel/comic book inspired films had been very popular prior to Batman Begins, with Bryan Singer's X-Men leading the pack.

I find it really odd that you'd say that Nolan's making 'dumb' films when in reality his more big budget films are some of most intelligent and thought provoking to come out of commercial filmmaking.

The thing that yourself and Cronenberg and others fail to realise is that in the past several years, there has been a very big shift in considering big budget commercial films in critical discourses, which in turn would suggest that some of Nolan's bigger films are worthy of artistic study, which, you guessed it, leads to intelligent discussions in seminars. Dumb films don't get studied, take it from somebody who actually studied film.

I am not saying he is bad director,he really is a genius and a true artist,man with vision,but he decided to go in commercial sea,where hes is limited by people who are not generally really interested in art,so he cant show his true potential,and not free to make pure masterpiece how he imagine it...
He is finest example of true artist ruined by Hollywood.
So he is a true genius/artist yet you think he makes dumb films? You need to make up your mind, man.

Also, as I have explained before, Nolan is one of the few filmmakers who's talents aren't tainted by meddling studio execs. There is a thematic consistency to his work (see Yoda's 'Useful Lies' and other various important essays). Questions about identity and the blurs between reality/illusion/delusions also feature prominently, and I imagine some of those ideas are lost on most studio execs yet Nolan gets to feature them as well as exclude gimmicky devices like 3D, which everyone keeps pushing him to embrace.

He is not, as you/Cronenberg suggest, limited by the studio. He IS the studio. A studio auteur if there ever was one.



Welcome to the human race...
Nolan has yet to make a film I like as much as Fight Club or Se7en (though Memento comes very close), but then again he's yet to make a film I dislike as much as The Social Network either.



It's also a bit ironic considering A History Of Violence is adapted from a comic book :/...

Hate to say it but I detect a slight bit of jealousy from Cronenberg.
I doubt Cronenberg would ever claim A History Of Violence is an art film. His presentation of the material is pure comic book, and no doubt appealed to him because it fits his perennial sub-themes of dual consciousness - i.e. Stall's double identity. Stylistically the film contains no aspirations towards high art at all.

Why would Cronenberg be jealous of Nolan exactly? Because Nolan's Batman address's similar themes of duality contained within his own work, and does so more effectively? Surely not. Plus having read numerous articles (and one book) about Cronenberg; he just doesn't seem the type. His body of work speaks for itself. To my mind he needn't be jealous of anyone.



So basically Cronenberg has just admitted that History Of Violence is 'adolescent' at it's core? Sorry, but I can't buy that. The very fact that he explored those recurring themes shows that he thought beyond a comic book approach.

Maybe jealousy is a strong word, but it's a bit sudden and unexpected from a old vet like him which makes me think he was triggered by something. Also, it's hard not to feel a little bit hard done by if this younger as intelligent director who has enjoyed both critical and box office success gets to do what he wants with a big budget. I dunno, maybe it's cool to hate on comic book themed films these days.



I dunno, maybe it's cool to hate of comic book themed films these days.
It's always been cool. If you'd known me for longer, you'd have already known that.
__________________
5-time MoFo Award winner.



Heh, well you've started a trend that in time, will hopefully be destroyed HK

But seriously, this backlash against Nolan is a bit frustrating. There is a Nolanite in all of us, i'm sure of it. I just have to unlock it somehow



Maybe jealousy is a strong word, but it's a bit sudden and unexpected from a old vet like him which makes me think he was triggered by something.
It was triggered by a directly related question. He just has the audacity to speak his mind.

But seriously, this backlash against Nolan is a bit frustrating.
First of all there's hardly a backlash, and why is it frustrating if he has critical acclaim?



2022 Mofo Fantasy Football Champ
Nolan vs. Fincher is not much of a tough call for me. Honestly I haven't seen anything I've disliked from Nolan, though I haven't seen The Following, Insomnia, and Memento. As for Fincher, I absolutely thought Se7en was his best film, I hated Fight Club, and haven't dabbled too much with him after that. So for now, Nolan by a mile. Though it may be unfair to judge at this point.



They are both very talented.

I was a bit surprised by Cronenberg's words. Totally disagree; it's the treatment of the material that makes all the difference. It strikes me as profoundly ignorant of the medium. I would urge anyone who is sincerely interested in a deeper understanding of the artform to read Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics.
__________________
#31 on SC's Top 100 Mofos list!!



The Bib-iest of Nickels
Honestly, and this is coming from somebody that hails The Dark Knight as the best movie that he has ever seen, in-terms of versatility, I'd probably say that David Fincher has my choice here. Christopher Nolan made The Dark Knight Trilogy and Inception, these are the most prominent things that he has done in his career, and while they're good, he hasn't had enough time to show his downsides, or truly cement his legacy in the way that David Fincher has.

David Fincher has made Fight Club, Se7en, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, The Social Network, and The Zodiac. All of which garnered positive reviews from critics, and all of which were outgoing and showed his versatility and flexibility as a director. I'll conclude with saying that I won't be surprised if Christopher Nolan ends up being the better director when it's all said and done, but I don't think that he's there yet.



I'd probably say that David Fincher has my choice here. Christopher Nolan made The Dark Knight Trilogy and Inception, these are the most prominent things that he has done in his career...
From this, I'm guessing you've not seen Memento? If so, then you've not seen his best work.



The Bib-iest of Nickels
From this, I'm guessing you've not seen Memento? If so, then you've not seen his best work.
I have it rented, and I'll be watching it later tonight actually, I don't think that one movie is going to completely change the course of my opinion, as I've seen everything else Nolan has done, and I've seen a lot of what Fincher has done, although, like Nolan, take one or two.