The 2008 Election

Obama is dark enough to be a certain type of "Aryan", but Hitler was a major loon.

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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page

As to the statement I put in bold. Yes, I've noticed that. I don't do debates though. I just state my opinions and feelings.

I know anyone with a strong opinion won't be changing it. It's the fence sitters that need to know the opinions on both sides that any of this might matter to.

As for drinking Kool-Aid, I have no idea where that comes from. Would you like to explain that? The last reference I heard on that, other than commercials was Jim Jones.

He was a charismatic cult leader and, as far as I know, had nothing to do with politics.

BTW, I don't actually condemn people for having out of wedlock children, GOP or Dem. That's typically more of a conservative thing in my experience.

What I was commenting on is that I didn't see how it was appropriate for them to fly their presumptive future SIL out to the convention. That makes no sense to me politically or for any other reason.

As for her speech which was full of lies and hyperbole making it quite stomach turning to some of us, you might be interested in what the Alaska Anchorage had to say about her distortions.

http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515517.html

And more debunking can be found here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_123883.html

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Bleacheddecay

Which is why I find the comparison ludicrous. I mean, you can disagree with the guy, but please.....Hitler?!

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"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza

OK, first of all, let's set (at least) my record straight. I'm a registered Dem, but I don't vote for parties and haven't even voted for one of the major parties for many years now. ALL politicians LIE! You can call it what you want, but they all do it. Yes, I HATE the war in Iraq. I find it unconscionable, but, it's not all there is to vote on. However, I will admit that reducing deaths will always make the world a better place, so unless you have a better way to reduce suffering, reducing deaths always wins out for me.

Well, I've made my choice...

I can't wait until this stupid election is over.

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We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...

7thson, I saw this post by you this morning and resisted posting, but I couldn't get it out of my head. I think this was totally uncalled for.

First off, bleacheddecay doesn't know what you are referring to, but I do. And I have to say that blows me away that you would call someone supporting the Democrats as drinking the "kool-aid." If you know anything about Democrats, they can't agree on anything. They will argue with each other to the point of not having a clear stand.

One of the reasons the Republicans have been so successful over the last 2 decades is that they will work in lock-step to make sure their message is the same across the board. They will send talking points to Fox News and to their talking heads in the media making sure they use the same catch-phrases. They present a unified front. They even go so far as to threaten those in the legislative branch with breaking ranks. The Dems try to do the same thing but they often fail. What from what I've seen, drinking the "kool-aid" refers to the followers of a party that can't think for themselves.

Yet, you use that comment to criticize someone who isn't exactly enamored with Palin? Is it possible that we can actually think for ourselves?

Now, don't get me wrong, the only people that drink the "kool-aid," imo, are those that still think Bush is a good guy.

Yea, that has to be craziest thing I've ever heard! Not only because of who Obama is, but he's a facist, too????

Wow. And people like this vote.

(No offence, John, I'm sure you love your gramps... I'm sure he's a wonderful guy....)

Actually it was a broad statement and I should have stated so, sorry for that, but seriously there are Kool-aid drinkers on both sides
I do not care what the topic is, if one has their mind set on one thing and cannot see that maybe the other side has some valid points or may even be right then it feels like a waste of time. I certainly am not saying the current administration is flawless, they have pissed me off with many things, from immigration to energy, to health care, etc... Hell I have supported democrats in many local positions so I know I do not drink a whole heck of a lot of it, maybe some sugar free stuff.

Anyway I am grateful that we all can stick up for or support whatever party or even no party that we want to, I think that is part of what makes this a great country. I challenge any Obama supporter to list at least one thing that they dislike about his ticket this year, I mean just one. I can come up with many for McCain, just more for Obama. I will start off:

Gay Marriges - I hate when he evens talks about this because he is blind about it imo.

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“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton

Okay, I'll be happy to respond to that. I am worried about some of Obama's reputed tax plans and how it will directly affect me.

However, I can't put my own possible future financial pain above what I think is the best thing for this country in a long time.

For the record, this is actually the first time I've voted for a Democrat for president period. Usually I've voted for a third party candidate as a protest vote.

Occasionally, I've voted Republican too.

I am voting for Obama. First of all, this whole muslim theory has been thrown away over and over again. Bush - the man has technically ruined our country, why the hell would we want to go to war? Oh sure terror is a promising thing to stop, and fight for. But, if Bush didn't bomb that place, we would never be in the situation we are now. And, this whole 2012 doomsday theory has gotten out of hands. It's not going to happen - so just get over it. The Mayans and aliens are history, and will remain history.

The democrats are on my side, the republicans I am honestly against. What the hell would want to go fight in Iraq for? McCaine - The republicans started a mess. Have republicans not noticed the Bible's Revelation is coming true? We could have stopped the world from ending way back if Al Gore won. But now, the lucky Bush [stole] the election. One thing a president does not do is lie, and steal. Just like Nixon resigned for lying. Let's just hope Obama wins and we don't start bombing our heads off in the middle east. That's all I'm hoping for.

I agree totally


That place?

here is an excerpt,

I am not sound biting or cherry picking, if you want the whole spill I can give it to you.

Clinton increased funding for the military. He also bombed more countries than any other peacetime president, including Yugoslavia, Sudan, Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan. In 1998 he bombed alleged terrorist training camps in Afghanistan (which were built by the CIA for Islamic terrorists in the 1980s) supposedly being used by Osama Bin Laden and a factory in Sudan Clinton alleged was producing chemical weapons for Bin Laden. No proof that this factory was producing chemical weapons was ever provided and it was later proven that the plant was actually a medicine factory. This probably resulted in thousands of deaths (there was no investigation so we can’t know the exact number) because the source of medicine for many Sudanese was cut off.

When Bush invaded Iraq, he went to the UN and attempt to get international support and UN approval to invade Iraq. He failed to get that support and invaded anyway but he at least tried to get UN approval. When Clinton attacked Yugoslavia in 1999 he didn’t even try to get UN approval, he just bypassed it completely in favor of a unilateral assault. Nineteen nations, all of NATO, technically signed up to the war but the US (with UK assistance) took the lead role and did most of the fighting, just like Bush’s “coalition” in Iraq. Most of the world was against the war, there were even small riots in front of US embassies. Unlike the Iraq war, the US did have the support of West European governments, but the rest of the world was against it (some were extremely upset). One of the administration’s slogans was “multilateral when we can, unilateral when we must,” which is virtually the same as Bush’s policy.



WHoaa, I thought politicians were not allowed to mix religion with government policy?

Obama or Mccain? I thought they were both against gay marriage.*unsure* How is he blind about it?

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http://www.last.fm/user/diezelpower/

McCain is blind about it the way most conservatives are. They just think it's evil to be gay and that gay marriage is wrong.

Obama is officially neutral on it I believe. At least he isn't "scared" of how it will "ruin the sacred institution heterosexual marriage and family values."

As if heterosexuals (conservative or otherwise) haven't been ruining these things all along on their own. LMAO.

Marriage gay or straight should not be legislated IMO, just like 99.9% of social issues should not be legislated.

Any two people that want to should be allowed to marry and receive the somewhat dubious legal benefits thereof.

Um, actually:
"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

Well, 7thson, there you go. You asked for something that I could disagree with Obama on. Here's one.

But, with all due respect, the Democrats do not villify gays. The Republicans do, even using them to win the election in 2004. Bush used the very same tactic (thank you, Karl Rove) when he won in Texas. He seems to find it a sport to pray on people's fears and prejudices to win elections.

I also think the Republicans will try and slip in a Supreme Court justice that shares their "religious" values. I do not believe the Democrats will and I don't think Obama will.

And 7thson, if the current administration has pissed you off with such important issues as energy and health care, pray tell, why would you support McCain now? In truth, the man is following in Bush's footsteps because the Republicans support record profits for oil companies (Yoda, note the word "record") and they don't seem to care to have any real discussion on how we can help give more and more people health care. McCain also gave nothing of substance in the speech the other night. That's because he really doesn't have much to say regarding the very real problems most Americans face.

70% of the people in polls say the country is going in the "wrong direction." So why would we want to continue giving the same party the chance the run things?

Would it be so tough to go into more depth?

Anyway, I do not see a more important issue right now than National Security and as of right now I do not see that being a strong point on the Obama front. I am waiting for real solutions not pipe dreams. The thoughts are nice and the desire is there, but not realistically achieved.

You know what? That's fine. I can agree to disagree.

However, this is also where I feel a need to point out there are all kinds of Christians.

I know. I live in the Bible Belt after all.

My personal beliefs are that Christians should be loving, tolerant, non-judgmental and open. That's just my opinion. That's how I try to live my life.

You sound more sane and moderate than quite a few self proclaimed Christians I know. I'm admiring that about you right now.

I simply do not understand why it is anyone's business to legislate or judge how people couple, marry and love. The level of prejudice thrown at gay people in our country is simply unconscionable and cruel to my way of thinking.

If God wants to judge that is his business but it's certainly not ours. I prefer to believe in a loving God in any case.

BD, I think Adi was saying that Obama made that statement.

Thanks Powdered Water. That may well be. I've read a few breakdowns on his position. That statement would be consistent with what he has said. It's far more moderate than McCain and Palin. From my POV that's a good thing.

It's not my particular key voting issue this election but it's better than the GOP position.