Federal Disaster Aid

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will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Originally Posted by Yoda
First, budget offsets and pork aren't mutually exclusive.
Yes they are. Pork is still pork even if you make cuts for it.

Second, I was talking specifically with Inhofe in mind, who I assumed was the target of Brodinski's ridicule. As I already said.

[b] Your comments were more general and specifically directed at Republican opposition, and did not reference Inhofe.[b]


Third, I even said specific iterations of the bill, so when you talk about pork being stripped from an earlier version of it, you're actually confirming my point, even though you don't even seem to realize it.

No, because the comments you made are not directed toward one person. It is about Republican opposition to the bill, which was tied up in the House, not the Senate, and the issue given there there was budget concerns, not pork.

And fourth, you appear to be using a very strict definition of pork that arbitrarily excludes general budget increases without oversight. Please, explain to me why there would be any funding provisions that do not stipulate acceptable usage, if the bill is supposed to be targeted towards specific disaster relief. I'd love to hear why.
I can't make heads or tails specifically what that bill says, but there is nothing there that is about terrorism or doing things in other states, which apparently is in the Senate bill. Money for FBI expenses directly related to hurricane consequences and Amtrak damage or problems created by the hurricane don't strike me as unreasonable and if that was the main problem for GOP opposition probably could have been worked out. But you know full well if they worked out all that stuff, the bill would have still been opposed without budget offsets because that was what all the screaming was about, not FBI salaries.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Originally Posted by Yoda
Actually, no. I'm not going to wait quietly.

Even if I weren't right about this (and I damn well am), it's pretty freakin' low to suggest that I knew better and said otherwise, which is basically just calling me a bald-faced liar. This is particularly galling, because I rarely see fit to question your basic honesty, despite a littany of errors so blatant and careless that they would give anyone ample reason to doubt your intentions. How'd you like to run through them, defending your integrity with each? Think that'll go well?
You were spinning.

You were doing the talking points.

Sometimes you do that. i don't know why. The actual reason is defensible from a fiscal conserative point of view, although it has not become a popular one because it puts principles over compassion.

I don't do talking points. I never attempt to be the spokesperson for the Democratic Party. You feel a need to defend Republicans. I am not that committed to the Dems.



Originally Posted by will.15
Yes they are. Pork is still pork even if you make cuts for it.
You don't know what "mutually exclusive" means, do you?

Originally Posted by will.15
Your comments were more general and specifically directed at Republican opposition, and did not reference Inhofe.
So what? He's in the news, and he's the one being specifically accused of hypocrisy for the exact comparison Brod made. I literally read the news story I linked to right before replying. I even thought of asking him to clarify who he meant, but figured it was obvious.

Originally Posted by will.15
No, because the comments you made are not directed toward one person. It is about Republican opposition to the bill, which was tied up in the House, not the Senate, and the issue given there there was budget concerns, not pork.
It doesn't matter; I specifically said they opposed specific iterations of the bill because of pork. You've admitted earlier versions had pork. QED.

Originally Posted by will.15
I can't make heads or tails specifically what that bill says, but there is nothing there that is about terrorism or doing things in other states, which apparently is in the Senate bill. Money for FBI expenses directly related to hurricane consequences and Amtrak damage or problems created by the hurricane don't strike me as unreasonable and if that was the main problem for GOP opposition probably could have been worked out. But you know full well if they worked out all that stuff, the bill would have still been opposed without budget offsets because that was what all the screaming was about, not FBI salaries.
The money isn't "directly related." That's the whole point. How are you not getting this?

It sounds like you don't have an answer for this at all. You "can't make heads or tails" out of what's in the bill, but somehow you're still here telling me what's in it. Awesome.



I don't do talking points.
Oh. My. God.

I am not that committed to the Dems.
Remember when I asked you to find me a single example in a year of posting that was negative towards Democrats--even if only for their political prospects? Remember when you couldn't? But you're not that committed. I mean, it's not your fault that they always have the truth righteously on their side, right?

"I see partisans hacks. All the time. They're like normal people. They only see what they want to see. They don't realize they're partisan hacks."




will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Oh. My. God.


Remember when I asked you to find me a single example in a year of posting that was negative towards Democrats--even if only for their political prospects? Remember when you couldn't? But you're not that committed. I mean, it's not your fault that they always have the truth righteously on their side, right?

Because you are wrong. I have made critical comments of Democrats and you know it. I am supposed to go back and find the posts? I am much more critical of Democrats than your goose stepping to the Republican party, always attacking Dems for many of the same things Republicans have done while making excuses for them. Now again, i don't fo that. Nothing i have ever said comes close to your behavior. Your comments constantly sound like talk radio or Fox News talking points.

"I see partisans hacks. All the time. They're like normal people. They only see what they want to see. They don't realize they're partisan hacks."

If anyone it a partisan hack, it is you. I don't do talking points. I really don't. My main focus is pointing out your double standard, not defending Democrats. Go to a liberal political forum and you will see a big difference to the way I argue and the way the same issue is argued there. I know it would be a shock to your senses, but I am not a super partisan as you are. My attitude is no matter who is President not every scandal is Watergate that will topple a President and shouldn't be treated in a blatant political way the Republicans are currently doing. Compare the hearings we are currently seeing to the bipartisan Watergate Hearings.
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Shorter version of your entire post: "Nah-uh, you are."

I can think of lots of things I've given flack to Republicans for. I thought Romneycare was crap, as were Romney's attempts to distinguish it from Obamacare, and I said so early and often. I think they're mostly wrong on immigration, too, which I've never been shy about mentioning.

What about you? You say "go back and find them," but I asked you last year, too, and you didn't have anything to show me then, either. Everything you posted was bad for Republicans. If there's anything like a scandal or bad news for Democrats, it's either a) played down and brushed off or b) never brought up.

Sure, you're not super-liberal. Never said you were. But you're a worse kind of partisan: the kind who thinks he isn't one.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Shorter version of your entire post: "Nah-uh, you are."

I can think of lots of things I've given flack to Republicans for. I thought Romneycare was crap, as were Romney's attempts to distinguish it from Obamacare, and I said so early and often. I think they're mostly wrong on immigration, too, which I've never been shy about mentioning.

What about you? You say "go back and find them," but I asked you last year, too, and you didn't have anything to show me then, either. Everything you posted was bad for Republicans. If there's anything like a scandal or bad news for Democrats, it's either a) played down and brushed off or b) never brought up.

Sure, you're not super-liberal. Never said you were. But you're a worse kind of partisan: the kind who thinks he isn't one.
Romneycare? That wasn't a Republican talking point. Romney was running away from that hinself.



If something the Republican candidate for President is routinely saying doesn't count as a "Republican talking point," then you're using the term in pretty weird way. The point is about the degree to which people criticize their own party, and this is a perfect example of that.

Speaking of which, you're just gonna keep dodging that, right? You couldn't produce any examples last year, and you can't produce any now, but you're just going to keep saying they exist. Forget producing one for a second: can you even remember an example, even if you don't know where the post is? Can you think of even one?



Oh, and don't think I haven't noticed that you've stopped replying to the federal aid stuff. I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how those things I listed are "directly related" to Hurricane Sandy. Or how you can somehow simultaneously say you don't know what's in the bill, but have no problem saying what isn't.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
The pork that was put in the bill in the Senate was put there to get the votes of Republicans so it would be filibuster proof. The House took that stuff out. The New York delegation asked if anything more had to be done to get the bill passed and was told no. The flak in the House had to do with budget offsets, not pork. Even in the Senate, Coburn specifically made budget offsets his reason for opposing the bill. Pork was a talking point, not the reason it was resisted by House Republicans as you falsely said.



Uh, I didn't mention House Republicans at all in my initial statement, nor were they waht I was thinking of. And I specifically said that specific iterations of the bill were opposed for pork, which you've only confirmed for me. Thanks!

Basically, you projected way more onto the statement than was actually there, and then argued with that. And in the midst of doing so, you said all the funds were "directly related" and then admitted you had no idea if this was true. Nice job.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
If something the Republican candidate for President is routinely saying doesn't count as a "Republican talking point," then you're using the term in pretty weird way. The point is about the degree to which people criticize their own party, and this is a perfect example of that.

Speaking of which, you're just gonna keep dodging that, right? You couldn't produce any examples last year, and you can't produce any now, but you're just going to keep saying they exist. Forget producing one for a second: can you even remember an example, even if you don't know where the post is? Can you think of even one?
Romney walked away from Romneycare. it wasn't even a talking point for him.

I said time and time again I wasn't a supporter of Obamacare.



Nah-uh. I already called this little evasion out last year: you make lots of reluctant admissions when people put you on the spot for it. But that's different than speaking out against your own side willingly.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Again, you are wrong. I said numerous times on my own I wasn't a fan of Obamacare while you think the Republicans in Congress and you share the same body.



Numerous times, huh? Where you volunteered it, rather than had it dragged out of you? Okay, show me. If they're "numerous," it shouldn't be hard to produce a few of them.

And I'm still waiting for an explanation on the "directly related" funding. Kinda sounds like you just threw that out there with literally no idea if it was true or not.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
You don't know what you are talking about. You never had to drag out of me I had a PROBLEM WITH OBAMACARE. WE NEVER HAD A DEBATE ABOUT IT. I SAID IT FREELY MANY TIMES.



Hey, you know how I'm always going through your sources and pointing out that they actually contradict you? Well, I decided to do some more of your homework for you. I ran searches on the backend database.
  • You used the word "Obamacare" in 18 posts. I looked at them all; I saw no condemnations of it.
  • You used the word "healthcare" in 10 posts. Same result. Didn't see anything
And this is without even getting into whether or not you admitted it without prompting. So far I'm not even seeing any criticism, period. It's technically possible that I missed them, since there's a fair bit to wade through and this was just a cursory search. But given that these examples are apparently "numerous," it isn't looking great.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
There is no way I can do a search on that. But I have often mentioned I am no fan of nationalized medicine. You are being pretty petty making an issue of it.

I said it many times. i don't what you looked up and don't know if you understood what I was saying.



Often? Ha. No. All I recall is you mentioning it when specifically prompted to defend it, which isn't what I'm talking about.

Everything you posted in that election thread was apparently bad news for Republicans. Every bit of so-called analysis you offered was that the news hurt them. So there are only a few possibilities: 1) you selectively only post things that you think are bad for them, 2) you think everything is bad for them, somehow, or 3) literally nothing happened all election season that hurt Democrats. Which is it?

And back to the topic, which I'm not going to let you drop: how are those things I've listed "directly related" to Hurricane Sandy, and why are you ostensibly contradicting people about the bill's contents when you don't know what's in it?