Inception

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Action scenes ? Action movie ? I would take that question up with someone who didn't like it. Dicaprio shooting guys and sliding on knees to catch them is awesome.
I just need to repeat this because it's so true: "DiCaprio shooting guys and sliding on knees to catch them is awesome." Dude, that was so awesome. There were definitely flashes of James Bond in Cobb's character in certain scenes, and this was kind of one of them.
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He was catching his own brass! God, I loved that scene!
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Genesis Pig: That's taking it a little too far. Everything anyone says is their personal view. Even mathematics, for instance. It's most people's personal view that mathematics represents a viable system for calculating reality. Alain Badiou would go further in his personal view that mathematics is actually the ontology of existence. Some people might derive a personal view that mathematics is invalid, and for some things it is. I don't mean to get all postmodernist on you (really it is you going dat on me), but complete relativism doesn't rationalize everything. Hitler had his own personal view, dontcha know.

Is this a discussion forum or what? The text's the thing that will reveal the veracity of your personal view, as Shakespeare would say. These thumbs are just a gimmick.



i just saw it today. i don't want to discuss it to death yet but i like it a whole lot. it gave me the kind of fits of excited laughter that i got from the incredibles and district 9. not that there's anything otherwise similar about those movies, it just gave me that kind of enjoyment.



You want it to be a discussion? then go ahead discuss....

That's something you are not doing at all.. All you are doing is making statements, then making another one & then another one... Just like your statement above is unrelated as a reply to mine..

You just want to state flashy trivia to look all smart.. & you still haven't explained why you feel the action scenes were unnecessary in Inception, but you made a statement that you dont like action scenes.. so that makes it your own personal choice and viewpoint..

If you tell me why the scenes were not needed without comparing it to other films & directors style of filmmaking, then it would be a fair discussion.



I get what you're saying planet news: often times an opinion doesn't matter as much as the decisions someone takes to formulate it. But what people are trying to tell you is, on this forum, negative repping is an action reserved for an extremely negative post, in which the poster attacks another poster instead of addressing the post itself, or says something that's in general inconsiderate, or continuously, annoyingly interjects with posts that add nothing to the discussion. Positive rep is awarded for a number of reasons: a funny or clever post will usually get one or two, giving one's own honest opinion on a movie with no strings attached will normally get more, and offering a well thought-out, mature, and respectful response in support of or in opposition to another post will get you the most. They aren't just a gimmick. They are a way of telling people that this is a post worth reading. For example, I always look at the posts with the most positive rep because I'm sure that person had something worth my time.

Anyway, I agree that some of the less important action in this film did not live up to the smart action of The Dark Knight. I think in particular of the first time they are attacked in Yusuf's dream (the first level). Arthur, Eames, Saito, and Fischer Jr. are in a car and people in front of them shoot at the car with automatic weapons; Arthur drives in reverse, hits some cars, and people behind them shoot the car with automatic weapons. He shifts back into drive, and the people in front of them shoot them again. This continues, noisily for about four minutes until Cobb swoops in and hits a guy, rather inelegantly, with the side of his car. It's boring, but I think Nolan did it with a purpose. The group did not expect Fischer to have been trained to defend his subconscious, they are ambushed and figuratively and literally have no way out. I think that scene was just trying to illustrate that.

But, again, I agree that it failed to excite me. In The Dark Knight, every action sequence was choreographed so beautifully that it flowed into the picture naturally. For example, Nolan didn't linger on the truck flipping over; it made for an amazing stunt for about five seconds, and immediately segued into Batman driving toward the Joker, resisting hitting him. This led directly to the Joker's capture. The scene wasn't made to stand alone. It astounded, but it was relevant and moved the story forward. A similar scene was the one in the under-construction skyscraper, where the guards were disguised as doctors and the hostages were made to look like bad guys. It was a fine example of how Batman's always right, always serving justice, and always at odds with the cops who make him out to be the bad guy. Inception had several shootout scenes that just distracted from the driving narrative. They did not tell us anything about the characters, except that they knew how to ride snowmobiles or shoot huge guns. I agree with your sentiment that Nolan could have found a more clever, dynamic way of showing Fischer's projections.

But to dismiss all the action in this movie as being distractions from the originality of the story is kind of stubborn. You want Inception to be a sophisticated thinking man's science fiction movie with no time for fun. But Nolan's goal from the start was to make a film that dealt with these huge ideas of inspiration and dreaming in a heist movie setting, with homages to James Bond films and The Matrix. Long, senseless shootouts and fight sequences were inevitable. But that doesn't mean all the action detracted from the movie.

We agree that the zero gravity and tumbling hallway scenes were excellent action scenes. But what about the tension created in synchronizing events on four different levels of consciousness, each with differing laws of time and space? This is about as good an example of cross-cutting as I can find in a movie, and if cross-cutting between this many narratives this quickly does not equate to action for you, I don't know what does. On the first level, we have a speeding car being assailed on all sides, while Yusuf struggles to keep the car from tipping over, and getting rid of Fischer's projections. This directly effects the people in Arthur's dream, leading to that hallway sequence. There are many more examples of 'smart' action in the movie that, as genesis pig says, keeps the viewers fully engaged, but this post is already long enough.



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TDK just sorta rocked so hard on all fronts it's not even fair.

Yes! The editing in this film creates the most literal visual interpretation of "climax" since Requiem for a Dream, i.e., the van HITS the water, Ariadne goes up, up, up... Cross cutting was brilliant there.

But when I watched it the second time, I just ignored the snow shootup completely. I just waited for it to end so I could think about Dom and Mal's conversation more. The van's super slow-mo was pretty awesome every time they cut to it, so was 0-G, but the snow shoot-up was just a major disaster in holding interest or looking like it mattered at all. I didn't really give a **** the first time either.

I'm just saying that these choice by Nolan made certain parts of the film just fall completely dead and that's bad, bad news for any film. 7/10 is as much as I can give it guyz. 70% of the film was good.



You just can't compare it to DK, they are 2 different films based on 2 whole different universes, DK is an adaptation while Inception is based on a material constructed entirely by the director himself..
Comparing DK to Inception, would be like comparing Se7en to Fight Club.

I saw it the 2nd time too.. & I didn't feel the same way as you did..
So the choices that Nolan made don't exactly fall completely dead!!... And it's noway a bad news.. why??? coz it's making the film work... in other words it's a SUCCESS!!!

Look at the ratings it has got.. It's on #3 on IMDB (I know that doesn't mean anything to you, like you already mentioned in another thread)... But it takes a lot to reach that position...
So I'd like to ask you again, How are those things you mention "BAD NEWS!" for the film?



My eyes we're kind of destroyed by the time the snow shooting started up. Just the concept of raiding a big snow base is awesome though, the brilliance of Inception (I think) is how convincing Dicaprio is in his motivations and character - while the movie is at it's heart an all-star mashup of epic action scenes.
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G P, you're absolutely wrong about films being adaptations having to be looked at in a totally different way. What different way is this? Do you subordinate all the directorial decisions to the decisions of the source material? What are you even saying about the differences that make tDK and Inception hard to compare? wtf I think it's pretty easy to compare Se7en to Fight Club. They are very, very similar films. They even have, like, the same lead actor so you can compare how Fincher uses Pitt. My god, tDK and Inception are very easy to compare. Explain to me how the source material has anything to do with it. Inception used plenty of elements from Jung in his film, if that counts, but even so...

I totally disagree with this notion that two films cannot be compared. Give me two films that cannot be compared, and I will attempt to compare them. It's art. You can compare anything. wtf are these rules you're setting up that comparing two works of art is futile or pointless or something.

OH U.

... But it takes a lot to reach that position...
It takes absolutely nothing at all. Fads take absolutely nothing at all. I think some utter garbage like the Simpson's movie shot up to number one when it first came out 2. Inception's been out for 2 weeks; that's hardly enough time for a fair judgement anyways. People are impulsive, and the film is highly advertised. I don't even need to explain how IMDB has NOTHING to do with the quality of a film.

A quick search yielded that Battleship Potemkin is utterly missing from its top 250. This is strange seeing as many critics cite this as one of the greatest films of all time.

I guess fads win then. Inception's been out fur 2 weeks yall.



Okay, first off; The Simpsons Movie was hysterical. I something in your general direction if you believe otherwise. Unless you hate the show as a whole, in which case, there is no talking to you, sir, and we must part ways.

I agree that people tend to flip out when a film is first released, but you can't dismiss it on that alone. And you sure can't cite "many critics" when discussing a film when you've been deriding such measures in other discussions about The Godfather and the like. I cry foul! Foul I cry.

But, I'm getting off topic. To your first few paragraphs: sure, you can compare any two films, but the comparison will always be imperfect, because each film sets out to accomplish a different thing under a different set of circumstances. I wouldn't say this means we can't or shouldn't compare them, but it does mean they are not fully comparable, if you get my distinction. It's perfectly reasonable to modify one's general judgments based on the constraints a film and a filmmaker have to work within. Inception has a freedom that an adaptation doesn't realistically have, and noting that seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Now, I realize 99% of this reply has nothing to do with Inception, so I'll stop talking for the moment.



My eyes we're kind of destroyed by the time the snow shooting started up. Just the concept of raiding a big snow base is awesome though, the brilliance of Inception (I think) is how convincing Dicaprio is in his motivations and character - while the movie is at it's heart an all-star mashup of epic action scenes.
After the post about Leo shooting people with a silencer and sliding to catch them before they fall, and now this, you are officially my favorite MoFo.



One of my favorite moments of Inception took place in the snow fortress bit. Fischer is about to open the safe room vault, but a figure is entering the room from the ceiling. Cobb is following the torso in the scope of his rifle as the unknown figure drops down from the ceiling into the room. Finally the figures face is visible, and in Cobb's scope he see's Mal. Cobb can't pull the trigger. Ariadne says something like "She's not real" and Cobb repies "But how do you know?" and the expression on Cobb's face was bone chilling. I really loved that scene.



One of my favorite moments of Inception took place in the snow fortress bit. Fischer is about to open the safe room vault, but a figure is entering the room from the ceiling. Cobb is following the torso in the scope of his rifle as the unknown figure drops down from the ceiling into the room. Finally the figures face is visible, and in Cobb's scope he see's Mal. Cobb can't pull the trigger. Ariadne says something like "She's not real" and Cobb repies "But how do you know?" and the expression on Cobb's face was bone chilling. I really loved that scene.
I completely agree.

Now let's please continue on this note. This is a thread about Inception, NOT about negative rep or a comparison between The Dark Knight and Inception. Though Planetnews, you have given me an idea for a thread. We can discuss some of the things you said over there so that this thread's sole subject remains Inception.

@ Yoda: You've seen it 2 times now, right? Am I about right with the ideas I put forward in my post on page 5?



I completely agree.

Now let's please continue on this note. This is a thread about Inception, NOT about negative rep or a comparison between The Dark Knight and Inception. Though Planetnews, you have given me an idea for a thread. We can discuss some of the things you said over there so that this thread's sole subject remains Inception.

@ Yoda: You've seen it 2 times now, right? Am I about right with the ideas I put forward in my post on page 5?
I've seen the movie five times in theaters and I think your ideas were pretty solid, except I'm not sure about these parts:

I am then bugged by the question of how Cobb ends up washed up on the shore. I presume it's because he died from drowning in the van? I like to think this, as we see Cobb seatbelted down (yes, I just made that verb up, I think) in the van and then a direct cut to him washing up on shore. I thus assume this signifies the drowning in the van, meaning that Cobb died in a dream while under heavy sedation which would mean that he is plunged into limbo.

Cobb and Ariadne voluntarily went into limbo, then Ariadne left and Cobb stayed back to find Saito. They were on the snow fortress level and used the machine to put them to sleep, sending them to limbo, because they wanted to find and rescue Fischer. That whole resolution between Mal and Cobb in their house took place in limbo. Mal was shot here, Cobb was stabbed here, and he came to terms with his guilt and let her go here. So I'm not sure how he would have plunged into limbo, since he was already there.

But I never thought that maybe he died 'again' when he drowned in the van, and sent his subconscious back to the start of limbo, on the shores. Maybe he was looking for Saito in limbo, and concurrently drowning in Yusuf's dream. Then when he died, he just reappeared on the shores of the subconscious as if he just got there. This also may account for the age different between he and Saito. Saito died a while ago in the snow fortress dream, and seemingly decades in limbo. Cobb just died in Yusuf's dream and went straight to limbo. Basically, we saw his entire time there. He washed up on the shore, the guards took him to Saito, he ate at his table, Saito shot him and woke him up. It may not have mattered that he was already in limbo for so long because he essentially 'started over' when he died.

Then he persuades Saito to take the leap, i.e. shoot himself, in order to return to reality. Cobb must've realised that the other levels had collapsed by now, which means that if you kill yourself in limbo, you go straight back into reality, much like Cobb and Mal already did.

I never even thought of the other dreams collapsing factor. That makes sense. So then did shooting themselves immediately wake them up on the plane, or did they linger somewhere between dreams until the timer went off. Because I thought the only way of waking up from the highest level was through the timer, and clearly everyone else used it. But since everyone on the plane woke up about the same time, I assume the timer awoke everyone. Do you think maybe when Cobb and Saito were in limbo staring at each other across the table they had a profound revelation and understood the nature of the dreamworld, so when they shot themselves, they immediately woke up to reality?

All of this makes a lot of sense, but I still think we're reaching beyond things Nolan presented in the film. I want definitive evidence of why things happened the way they did. But maybe this just isn't that type of movie.

Still, great ideas Brodinski.



But I never thought that maybe he died 'again' when he drowned in the van, and sent his subconscious back to the start of limbo, on the shores. Maybe he was looking for Saito in limbo, and concurrently drowning in Yusuf's dream. Then when he died, he just reappeared on the shores of the subconscious as if he just got there. This also may account for the age different between he and Saito. Saito died a while ago in the snow fortress dream, and seemingly decades in limbo. Cobb just died in Yusuf's dream and went straight to limbo. Basically, we saw his entire time there. He washed up on the shore, the guards took him to Saito, he ate at his table, Saito shot him and woke him up. It may not have mattered that he was already in limbo for so long because he essentially 'started over' when he died.
Yeah, that's my way of accounting for the age difference. Cobb was already in limbo, but then drowned in Yusuf's van, causing him to replunge into limbo but in a different location, namely the shore in front of Saito's feudal palace. Of course, Cobb could've also died when the snow fortress was blown up, but I just made the link between drowning and washing up on shore + the fact that the film cuts from Cobb drowning in the van to washing up on shore.


I never even thought of the other dreams collapsing factor. That makes sense. So then did shooting themselves immediately wake them up on the plane, or did they linger somewhere between dreams until the timer went off. Because I thought the only way of waking up from the highest level was through the timer, and clearly everyone else used it. But since everyone on the plane woke up about the same time, I assume the timer awoke everyone. Do you think maybe when Cobb and Saito were in limbo staring at each other across the table they had a profound revelation and understood the nature of the dreamworld, so when they shot themselves, they immediately woke up to reality?
I think the others were woken up by the timer. But I do not believe that Cobb and Saito were awoken by it. As I already said, I think the other levels collapsed, meaning that limbo is now the sole remaining level. Cobb and Mal already got out of it by killing themselves, so why should this be any different for Cobb and Saito?

Another theory could be that other rules apply for limbo. Cobb said that if you get killed in a level when under heavy sedation, you get plunged into limbo, this being unconstructed dream space OR the dream space of whomever of the party has been there for the longest period of time (i.e. Cobb). But does this rule also apply for limbo? I thought that Cobb mentioned that the only way to get out of limbo was by killing yourself. Seeing as Cobb built limbo (together with Mall) he must've realised he was in it and then asked Saito to take a leap of faith with him.

Too many theories and ideas are still circulating in my mind though. I'm unable to draw up any definitive conclusions.

Thanks btw for the quick reply C&W



One of my favorite moments of Inception took place in the snow fortress bit. Fischer is about to open the safe room vault, but a figure is entering the room from the ceiling. Cobb is following the torso in the scope of his rifle as the unknown figure drops down from the ceiling into the room. Finally the figures face is visible, and in Cobb's scope he see's Mal. Cobb can't pull the trigger. Ariadne says something like "She's not real" and Cobb repies "But how do you know?" and the expression on Cobb's face was bone chilling. I really loved that scene.
I saw it again today, definitely my favorite moment.



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Just the concept of raiding a big snow base is awesome though,

Yeah, I agree. Watch On Her Majesty's Secret Service to see it done, much much much better.
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