Complaining Booth

I just can't figure out why all this had to get started up again. For crying out loud people let it go!!!!!!!!!

__________________
"I was walking down the street with my friend and he said, "I hear music", as if there is any other way you can take it in. You're not special, that's how I receive it too. I tried to taste it but it did not work." - Mitch Hedberg

" Let it be...Let it be...Let it be...Let it be...whisper words of wisdom...Let it be." Sorry...I just think we should...um...let this subject go. Really, it should not have come up again. I feel partly responsible because Toose and T said I was behaving ' like PLite ' but c'mon folks...it shouldn't have evolved into this.

It is the nature of a forum to evolve --- but unfortunately its not what's happening here.

Chris, I believe you are the chief architect of your own troubles here. You have not wasted any opportunities in using PLite as one of the worst examples of misbehavior in your Forum. Yes--you want it to be about movies and I have noticed you are now warning people--in keeping with your vision.

But to consistently hold PLite up for ridicule--"do PLite impersonations" in several threads-- is unworthy of you and it saddens me. You claim you have been insulted in the worst ways possible yet what have you been doing on MoFo all this time, Chris?

You are entitled to defend yourself-- but not by attacking someone who is no longer even on this board.
I take it that you have more sympathy to the Christian virtue of "an eye for an eye" rather than all the rigamarole of "forgiveness."

Intolerance, Chris---is an ugly word. It cannot be celebrated in any form. (you may want to check the definition of the word---) Not even when you use Bin Laden's name to justify it. Your use of it in your analogy is inconsistent with the context in which Tooose used it.

You are threatening censorship on another thread, Chris. Why? Because you can't stand the insults? Insults to you? To Plite? To MoFo? You have come to this crossroad. Instead . . .

Just listen to your posters. Those who agree and disagree with you. And respect them. Live with it, Chris. Learn from it and grow.

El Cootie

I'll take it one point at a time:

But it's true. A PLite impersonation is credited to anyone who acts like PLite. You could very well say that anyone who dislikes PLite is doing a TWT impersonation...what's the harm?

Two things...1) Those insults did not come from PLite, even though he had a few of his own to throw my way and 2) if you're telling me I shouldn't be firing back, then are you, at *LONG* last conceding that PLite is saying things out of line? I've asked you about that before and you just seem to ignore it...everyone ignores it. No one will admit it, it seems.

I guess this is another concession that PLite is out of line on MV, then? Because he had no problem when it came to talking about me, even when I wasn't around there.

Maybe you read my earlier post, and maybe not, but if PLite wants to come back with a deflated ego and a willingness to talk about movies with us, he is welcome. However, forgiveness does not require that I pretend it never happened, or that I pretend I'm okay with it. If you want to go down the Moral and/or Biblical road, why don't you go tell PLite about The Golden Rule? Or are you still opposed to correcting him at ALL, seeing as how he's so incredibly cute and innocent (that was sarcastic, BTW).

I see no flaw in the analogy whatsoever. The simple fact of the matter is that, yes, we can learn from ANYONE...but that is unrelated to the fact that some people do indeed deserve criticism, and, in some cases, there's nothing wrong with pointing out these problems. You're doing it to me...PLite has done is many times, in rude ways. Did you post on MV recently telling him off for it, El Cootie? If not, then why not? Is there a double-standard here?

This is the ONLY one of your statements that makes me *actually* mad, El Cootie. I have done nothing but let people rail against me on this site. If you haven't seen that, it's because you've chosen not to. I've been told to go visit the KKK website, because apparently I'd be more comfortable there. I've been called close-minded, and basically stupid and crazy, and completely unwilling to listen. And yet I've let those discussions go on.

If you'll notice (obviously you have not), the thread I threatened to close contains mostly insults against PLite...so your questions are moot, and make no sense. Your remark sounds more like an angry attempt to try to put me on the defensive than it does a logical argument.

I sincerely hope you respond to this. The PLite supporters keep saying it: leave him alone! It's over! Don't talk about him if he's not here! However, none of them are saying anything to him for doing the exact same thing (the [red]EXACT...100% EXACT[/red]) over on MV. It simply reinforces my claim that too many people are blind to his flaws...probably out of choice. After all, how could someone who makes jokes about his nose POSSIBLY be so mean?
[Edited by TWTCommish on 10-31-2001]

Tolerance (http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=tolerance):
The first definition there is obviously the most appropriate. I have no reason to respect PLite's practices, because they epitomize self-centeredness, and hypocriscy. He has complained about things, and then turned around and done them himself. When confonted with that, he has either ignored it, or lashed out with some over-the-top insult or angry remark.

There, you told me to look up the definition, and I did, and it completely supports my notion: that there's no good reason to tolerate something that you know is wrong, just for the sake of being tolerant. Intolerance does not mean I hate his guts, or that I wish he were dead...it means I do not hold respect for his methods and attitude. Obviously you are intolerant to my attitude towards him, so, once again, I'm being accused of something by people who are doing the same thing.

El Cootie, you have no real power on here. I mean you have 7 posts, and what you think is right...isn't. So I think that any posts by you are your misunderstandings of you struggling to make sense.

Chris has been siding with PLite when it comes to insults from us. We are insulting PLite only because while he was here 95% of his posts were regarding how he resembled Jude Law or how all the british girls were fawning over him. This is all fine and dandy if someone actually cared. I don't think anybody cared. I have said this before PLite does know somewhat on movies, but he rarely posted things involving movies. If he was to come back and post movies 95% of the time and the other 5% he used to just fool around I wouldn't have a problem with him.

INTOLERANCE, Chris--- is the word you should look up. Isn't that what I said?

I'll say it now---since you want so badly for me to admit that PLite is saying things out of line. My PERSONAL opinion--- PLITE HAS NOT BEEN OUT OF LINE. No more than your other posters. Perhaps even less. You are ALWAYS ASSUMING that people like PLIte because of cuteness and innocence. It isn't. You have not understood this in all the discussions on this board. I admire PLite because he doesn't let anything get him down. He is bright, imaginative, and it is a joy to read his posts. I realize you and some others do not share this sentiment. That's not my place to convince you of that. I'm just telling you how I feel.

FLAWS? I'm sure PLite has them. As you have FLAWS. I just don't believe you and I have the same conception of what a FLAW is in PLIte. What you may see as a FLAW in PLite--may be something I personally admire. What he says about you on MVault?---I'm sorry-- I don't consider them serious offenses. That's just my Opinion.

Are you happy now?

You are always claiming people are ignoring your points. They don't!!!!! If they did, they wouldn't even bother to reply to your post. Chris, you just don't like what you're hearing.

And the harm in your "PLite impersonation" remarks? YOu have alienated 2 of your own supporters in MoFo. Toose and Sunfrog. Despite their loyalty to PLite, they have continued posting in your site----.

CHris, I am moving on now. I am sorry but I do not have any more reason to stay. (Its not like I posted very much, anyway. What's to miss?) We are as night and day and I cannot support what you are doing. Good luck, Chris. It is meant sincerely, I assure you. You are a remarkable young man, you know.

Goodbye,
EL Cootie

El Cootie,
If you are still here and are reading this then, listen up. Sunfrog, Toose, left because they felt we were knocking PLite simply because...he wasn't here. See, when he left people were choosing sides and getting ready to scrap. Things got back to normal...somewhat, and then BAM, he's back. What does he post on? The very thing he left over. So he brought on that himself. We were mearly stating that it was pretty stupid to leave over something like flirting, claiming he is the most adorable thing out there, and then come back to post on the very same thing.

So, for the posts these past week, those were PLite's doing. I was over all of this and trying to get back to posting on movies, but then there's those like yourself that half to come back and support someone who isn't here anymore. I mean if I was to register over on this other site and start supporting the slams on TWT I would only be doing what you guys are. Which isn't necessary.

So why those are leaving that obviously have things mixed up, it's sad they have to go. In a way though, this isn't all our doing. You can put a little of the blame on your friend PLite. He's the one that got this all started again. Wether that was his plan or not, who knows.

I agree 100% ... EXACTLY 100%!! with TWT.

I'll say it now---since you want so badly for me to admit that PLite is saying things out of line. My PERSONAL opinion--- PLITE HAS NOT BEEN OUT OF LINE. No more than your other posters. Perhaps even less.

bull. absolute bull. the threads on mvault are now refreshed so there's no lingering proof. but with my own two eyes i saw what PLite said here and I saw what he said there and honey, they were so out of line and most certainly not "even less."

what it comes down to is you AGREE with the mean things Plite said. plus he couched them in chipperness. therefore you saw no harm. THAT'S why you it's not so bad to you. but the person on the receiving end is NOT going to see it the same way.

You are ALWAYS ASSUMING that people like PLIte because of cuteness and innocence. It isn't. You have not understood this in all the discussions on this board. I admire PLite because he doesn't let anything get him down. He is bright, imaginative, and it is a joy to read his posts. I realize you and some others do not share this sentiment. That's not my place to convince you of that. I'm just telling you how I feel.

you don't get it. we don't DISAGREE with that. cuteness (he's not innocent) is ONE of the things you enjoy. but enjoying all the wonderful parts about someone does not EXCUSE the bad things they do. i'm sorry, it just doesn't. when you raise your children you don't tell them it's ok to steal, insult, or hurt somebody just because you love them.

FLAWS? ...

um, yeah, we all have flaws. your statement here simply supports that you refuse to see any in PLite though you acknowledge he has some somewhere. if you ADMIRE PLite even when he does something mean, good for you. I'm afraid many of us just don't see that as a good trait.

What he says about you on MVault?---I'm sorry-- I don't consider them serious offenses. That's just my Opinion.

once again the proof is gone and I haven't been back there since my last post. But um - yes, there were some serious offenses.

If they did, they wouldn't even bother to reply to your post. Chris, you just don't like what you're hearing.

no. when you reply you choose NOT to reply to the parts he has statements/questions/issues with. you deliberately take what he says and use only the parts you want to prove how wrong and injust and intolerant he is.

To everyone:

There IS a double standard against Chris, and it isn't fair. PLite and his whole posse insults/insulted Chris at Mvault. They insulted him here even before they left. Chris himself held on for the most part and didn't do the same kind of thing back. Sure he may have said a thing or to but come on, it's been pretty silent over here at MoFo till this ruckus. He MAINLY did his talking as DEFENSE over THERE at Mvault.

The insults thrown at PLite here have been from other people. I went to the trouble of explaining I never insulted him and when I ended things I made a point to not join in when others talked about him here. I support Chris in maintaining a cease fire in that respect.

I agree that forgiving does not mean forgetting. And if you want to encourage forgetting - it is impossible when everyone keeps being reminded. That includes PLite's side, as well as ours.

Chris is the most tolerant person I know. Coming here to tell us that "this board has not evolved" or "you're all intolerant and small minded" or "this board wasn't worth coming back to" is really not the way to prove your point ABOUT others being small minded, judgemental, and intolerant. If you refuse to accept that Chris has been attacked and speak as though being a real Christian means he can't speak about the attacks or how they're wrong, then you are free to believe that and we are free to disagree. Don't go claiming WE'RE intolerant for not agreeing on that or on the PLite situation. Because YOU'RE equally intolerant of OUR views.

If it's the hurt that fuels this anger and resentment because we all once got along - we must accept we no longer see eye to eye and with that release that resentment. You can't be MAD at somebody just because they don't see things your way. For both sides. Neither of us can. To continue to feel this or act out on it (further fueling it) will make us continue to agitate and anger and bicker and judge one another. I say, for the respect we all once had for one another, for respect out of how we first met, spoke, engaged, and had fun - we let it rest in peace, even if it will not be green pastures anymore for the lot of us together.

So, like I said before - we are at an impasse and it is best to let sleeping dogs lie. The best way to do that is to PRACTICE letting it go. NO comments or jabs regarding PLite, no insults about him, no name calling of each other, no verbal judgements. We already know what we think. We can keep it to ourselves and if someone wants MORE rolling in the mud - E-MAIL somebody and like Chris has said - let's try and keep it off the boards.
[Edited by thmilin on 10-31-2001]

Cootie, that just isn't true. PLite has not been out of line? If you indeed mean that, then you have contradicted yourself directly: you expressed dissatisfaction with my talking about him while he was not posting here to defend himself. News flash: he did the same to me on the other site. There you have it: proof that you've been upset with me for doing the same thinkg he has, while all the while claiming that PLite has done no wrong. No offense, but it doesn't get much more blatant than that!

Yes, he does not let much get him down: that's a virtue. He also holds a double-standard when it comes to speaking ill of others...that's a flaw. One that you won't admit to, despite overwhelming evidence.

Re: intolernace...I looked it up, and it was defined as lack of tolerance...which is not that useful, so I looked up tolerance. Therefore, my point still stands: intolerance is perfectly appropriate for a situation like this. If I were tolerant, I would not be able to disagree with him.

If you don't want to post the reply, fine: just email me...but there's a blatant flaw in your logic here, and I'd really like it cleared up for once. Oh, and BTW: Sunfrog has not been alienated. He and I talk off and on and we have no real problems with each other...just a few disagreements. Toose is the same, 'cept he won't post here anymore...PLite and Wart are the only regulars who are genuinely alienated...and, I'm sorry to say, I'm not going to ignore what PLite has said and done just to try to keep everyone happy.

PLite, for me, was always a joy to have around, and his posts lit up the entire board. I didn't read any of his comments about TWT on the other site, but I hope that none of you are using that as a justification for continuing to talk about him. Just because he does it, doesn't mean you should do it. I'm not saying that it's ok for him to do it either, but using his mistakes as justification for your own is low. It's not right. Let's just let it go.

Btw, I'm not looking for an argument. This is just my two cents.

Complaint: How the media treats Muslims. The average non-Islamic person now thinks that Muslims are all terrorists. Wake up, people! Not everyone is Osama Bin Laden! A Pakistani worker at 7-11 near my friends' house was beaten and robbed after his shift on Monday night. Why are people so intolerant and ignorant?

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**** the Lakers!

My 12 year-old son wants to know why you guys are acting so childish over all this.

Why either side in this can't let it die is beyond me. Whichever side you are on, you aren't going to convince the other side no matter how well-reasoned your argument may be to you. Each person has their own bias, and nobody is interested in changing his opinion. It's an argument that cannot be won, and unwinnable battles should not be fought.

So since the battle cannot be won, ignore it. Neither side has to defend their guy. We support who we support, and no one is going to change his mind based on anything that is said at this point. As much as it pains us to see our guy attacked, fighting back only escalates it and (in my opinion) detracts from the board.

There are times to fight, and this isn't one of them. You've all made your points. You've done all you can do. It's time to end this.

My complaint? People who stereotype in their complaints about stereotypes. "People" aren't so intolerant and ignorant. Just like only a small minority of Muslims are terrorists (and some of the media has made significant attempts to differentiate despite your stereotyping "the media" as one monolithic mass), only a small minority of people are so intolerant and ignorant.

I'd like to see your data regarding the claim that "the average non-Islamic person" thinking that Muslims are all terrorists. Can you forward that study to me?

And were the people who committed the crime against the Pakistani convenience store clerk apprehended? And did they admit their reasoning behind the crime? Or was there other evidence to support the idea that this was a hate crime other than the fact that the victim was Pakistani? Convenience store clerks have been beaten and robbed for reasons other than ethnicity in many, many cases.

I disagree. The media, if anything, is falling all over themselves to try and point out the difference...sometimes to annoying levels. MTV, for example, is going friggin' nuts to try to put an end to such things...when, to be honest, I'd rather they have commercials for The Red Cross there. Aside from that, I've yet to actually meet anyone ignorant enough to generalize like that...though I realize it has happened in a few serious incidents across the country.

It's a shame, HOWEVER, I don't think it's even remotely true that the "average non-Islamic person now things that Muslims are terrorists" -- that probably goes beyond all reasonable standards for what an exaggeration should be. I think a few drunken, ignorant fools who's parents didn't love them enough are going around beating anyone who looks like Bin Laden to them...and as a result, everyone seems to think the country as a whole has some kind of problem...which I don't believe. I think if you go around and ask 100 people about this, 99 (or more) will not make that mistake.

Anyway, here's my complaint: people who say things about Islam or the Muslim world who haven't done their homework...there are quite a few, I'm sorry to say. Another gripe: MTV. Goodness, some of their "Fight for your Rights" commercials are ridiculous. Sometimes they have minorities saying very agreeable, correct things (example: an Asian person sarcastically saying "Do you know Karate?")...but some are just them acting as if a reasonable question (like asking a Jewish person why they do not celebrate Christmas) is somehow offensive and racist. Call me stupid, but isn't it a good thing to ask questions about things you're not familiar with, to become familiar with them? There's a line and all, but questions like "Why do Jewish people wear those small hats on their heads" are perfectly reasonable. Heck, ask a Christian about God and they won't be offended...in fact, I'll bet they'll be happy enough to talk your ear off.

I have some thoughts.
Who the hell is El Cootie? I'm sorry, but it's just plain strange. Do you guys remember back when he was sticking up for PLite before, and I asked him why he doesn't post about anything else? He said he didn't have the time...and his arthritic hands and all that...are you all buying that now? He only posts to defend PLite. I just find it odd.


[Edited by sadesdrk on 10-31-2001]

I was thinking the same thing. I find it hard to believe all crimes against a Pakistani in today's times, are directly related to what's going on right now. Are we going to still say that all crimes againt a "white" person,at the hand of a " black" person, are directly related to the Rodney King beating? That would be ridiculous. I don't think every crime brings with it all these political issues.Also, every minority gets it's negitive media attention. Just last night, on a SNL re-run, I saw the T.V. Funhouse skit that pokes fun at Christian Extremests. It was portraying a group of " Bible Beaters" going around trying to "save" gays from hell. It really was offensive...but I'm not going to whine about it.

hmm sades hon, I don't think we needed that. might make more people angry.

i agree with you ryan. that's why i ended my spiel how i did. i think it will take a conscious effort to NOT argue anymore. like you said, we won't agree.

complaints for today:

transportation. while i like the luxury of cars and all, why can't we all just hurry up and teleport everywhere we want to, already? my car is acting up and i ain't got the $$ to pay for it. life would be so much more pleasant if this were star trek. then we wouldn't HAVE intolerance and injustice on earth. and we'd all be well fed and have homes and places to sleep and an education.

needed what? I don't care. I'm sick of walking on eggshells around here. Every where I turn I'm pissing someone off. OG, sunfrog, you, T, it matters not. I'm not a people pleaser by nature, especially if it compromises my personality. So what do YOU think is going to piss people off now? Deleting posts? My thoughts on PLite? Flirting? Political issues? Whether or not I roll my toilet paper under or over? Lay it on me thmmie...always easy to swallow coming from a friend.<<<<<< sarcasim.

You ain't pissing me off Sades. Quite the contary. Whoops. Flirting, wrong thread, 16... Calm, Matt, Calm...

Complaints for the day:
- Australia "big-dealing" itself.
- Hypocrytes
- Indesisiveness
- Boyfriends(of girls, not of....you understand me. Shutup.)
- TV
- Money and bank accounts
- The quest for World Peace
- The war on "Terrorism"
- The cold hand of death.

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www.esotericrabbit.com

THANK YOU SILVER BULLET..

Finally someone is making some good complaints on here. Not saying that the few posts on the muslims wasn't a good complaint, but these are everyday complaints that Silver Bullet made. THANKS A BUNCH!!!

Trust me...there is no sarcasm here.