Westworld
Caught up on the last two episodes last night. Now with a certain theory all but confirmed, this is how I see things:
By the way, this will be safe for pretty much everyone in here. It's just in spoilers for those who like to avoid theories, and have somehow managed to avoid the main one so far.
Another question though: what's up with Ghost Nation? I think they could hold a key to something. They seem to have some sort of connection with the maze, or some sort of deeper level. And they've showed when they seemed to lure and capture that worker at the end of 09 that they don't respond to normal human to host controls. Anyone got any ideas here?
By the way, this will be safe for pretty much everyone in here. It's just in spoilers for those who like to avoid theories, and have somehow managed to avoid the main one so far.
WARNING: "MTT explained" spoilers below
Approx 35 years ago:
Arnold has private conversations with Dolores where he begins to experiment with her humanity, making her more conscious of memories and leading to her ability to hurt humans.
She then, for some reason ends up killing Arnold*
Approx 30 years ago:
William and Logan come to the park. William and Dolores become friends, and this is possibly the first time she begins to recall the events that lead to her killing Arnold.
William begins his transformation into the MIB.
Now:
Something triggers Dolores to once again retrace her steps, likely the father and photo stuff, and she begins travelling through the locations of the events that lead up to her killing Arnold, and her journey with William (they are similar). Explains all the stuff where we see her on her own. She gets to under the church where she comes to the realisation that she killed Arnold all those years ago and that what she has been experiencing is her memories.
Meanwhile, the MIB has returned to the park following his wife's death, and wants to get to the centre of the maze. I'm guessing he's figured out he needs to go back to Dolores to find the maze, hence tracking her down and finally meeting her again in the church. Remember Arnold told Dolores that he wanted her to find the centre of the maze.
* I think it's likely that Dolores was responsible for that town massacre, and that's where Arnold died. The Wyatt story as some have mentioned is simply a retelling of Dolores killing the town and Arnold. It's possible that the MIB realises that Dolores=Wyatt and that's how he ended up back at the church.
Approx 35 years ago:
Arnold has private conversations with Dolores where he begins to experiment with her humanity, making her more conscious of memories and leading to her ability to hurt humans.
She then, for some reason ends up killing Arnold*
Approx 30 years ago:
William and Logan come to the park. William and Dolores become friends, and this is possibly the first time she begins to recall the events that lead to her killing Arnold.
William begins his transformation into the MIB.
Now:
Something triggers Dolores to once again retrace her steps, likely the father and photo stuff, and she begins travelling through the locations of the events that lead up to her killing Arnold, and her journey with William (they are similar). Explains all the stuff where we see her on her own. She gets to under the church where she comes to the realisation that she killed Arnold all those years ago and that what she has been experiencing is her memories.
Meanwhile, the MIB has returned to the park following his wife's death, and wants to get to the centre of the maze. I'm guessing he's figured out he needs to go back to Dolores to find the maze, hence tracking her down and finally meeting her again in the church. Remember Arnold told Dolores that he wanted her to find the centre of the maze.
* I think it's likely that Dolores was responsible for that town massacre, and that's where Arnold died. The Wyatt story as some have mentioned is simply a retelling of Dolores killing the town and Arnold. It's possible that the MIB realises that Dolores=Wyatt and that's how he ended up back at the church.
Another question though: what's up with Ghost Nation? I think they could hold a key to something. They seem to have some sort of connection with the maze, or some sort of deeper level. And they've showed when they seemed to lure and capture that worker at the end of 09 that they don't respond to normal human to host controls. Anyone got any ideas here?
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Okay, I think there is a TINY chance that Logan is the MIB. They're having a marathon of episodes today leading up to the finale tonight, and in one earlier episode, the current MIB mentions that he once opened up one of the hosts a long time ago (before they went to flesh-and-blood). Of course, we've just seen Logan slice open Dolores in the past episode and we saw her robot innards.
Could these be the same incident? Possibly ... though I still think it's a lot smoother and more natural to make William the MIB and not Logan, since this is the only bit I've seen that truly leads me to suspect Logan. Still, it was an interesting tidbit I hadn't given much thought to until rewatching today *after* having seen the recent episode with Logan gutting Dolores.
Could these be the same incident? Possibly ... though I still think it's a lot smoother and more natural to make William the MIB and not Logan, since this is the only bit I've seen that truly leads me to suspect Logan. Still, it was an interesting tidbit I hadn't given much thought to until rewatching today *after* having seen the recent episode with Logan gutting Dolores.
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Okay, I think there is a TINY chance that Logan is the MIB. They're having a marathon of episodes today leading up to the finale tonight, and in one earlier episode, the current MIB mentions that he once opened up one of the hosts a long time ago (before they went to flesh-and-blood). Of course, we've just seen Logan slice open Dolores in the past episode and we saw her robot innards.
Could these be the same incident? Possibly ... though I still think it's a lot smoother and more natural to make William the MIB and not Logan, since this is the only bit I've seen that truly leads me to suspect Logan. Still, it was an interesting tidbit I hadn't given much thought to until rewatching today *after* having seen the recent episode with Logan gutting Dolores.
Could these be the same incident? Possibly ... though I still think it's a lot smoother and more natural to make William the MIB and not Logan, since this is the only bit I've seen that truly leads me to suspect Logan. Still, it was an interesting tidbit I hadn't given much thought to until rewatching today *after* having seen the recent episode with Logan gutting Dolores.
WARNING: spoilers below
I was thinking that awhile back too, until last episode when William chopped up everyone in the town
Yeah, that's a lot of why I'm still sure it's William. But I hadn't expected to hear MIB say he'd sliced open one of the hosts. Had completely forgotten that line till today. Just threw me off a bit and made me wonder. But yeah, my money's still on William.
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That...was a fantastic season finale. SO GOOD!
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” ― Thomas Sowell
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Just picked up HBO Now and watched episode 1 last night. Bummed I didn't get to be apart of the conversation. It has been hard to stay out of this thread. I enjoyed the first episode alot. Very dream like. I can't wait to see where it goes. Originality is not dead.
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I did NOT see the twist with Maeve's narrative coming (the "escape" part). And of course, I now have to rewatch because I know I missed all sorts of subtle, elegant things they accomplished in this season finale.
Did NOT disappoint!
BTW, any time they have had a big reveal/big moment of some sort, they haven't just shoved it in our faces. They've played it out nicely, lovingly, and satisfyingly. Great work, HBO!
Did NOT disappoint!
BTW, any time they have had a big reveal/big moment of some sort, they haven't just shoved it in our faces. They've played it out nicely, lovingly, and satisfyingly. Great work, HBO!
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Halfway point in the 90 minute finale.
WARNING: spoilers below
If I didnt read fan theories here and elsewhere, I wonder if I would have ever figured out William was MiB? Even when everyone said it, I was still dubious Next season Ill avoid all the info and see how good I do, cause I couldnt guess a daYUM thing this season.
Yeah, I'm giving some serious thought to avoiding any of those next time. Obviously, any theory people come up with on their own is one thing, but I think I'm gonna not "crowdsource" it from the entire Internet.
Also, funny moment while watching last night: when Maeve heads down into the basement, I turn to my wife and say "Wait, isn't Bernard still laying dead down there? Isn't Felix going to find him there and be like 'Holy sh*t'?"
*two seconds later on screen*
Felix: "Holy sh*t."
Also, funny moment while watching last night: when Maeve heads down into the basement, I turn to my wife and say "Wait, isn't Bernard still laying dead down there? Isn't Felix going to find him there and be like 'Holy sh*t'?"
*two seconds later on screen*
Felix: "Holy sh*t."
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So, are we supposed to assume that poor Stubbs is out there dead among the Ghost Nation folks? I assume so...
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Maybe. I guess we're also supposed to assume Abernathy, loaded up with intellectual property, is milling around with the other undead host hordes.
Also, fun theory: the Ford that was shot was not him, but a host so he could fake his own death. After all, we still dunno who he was building in that basement.
Also, fun theory: the Ford that was shot was not him, but a host so he could fake his own death. After all, we still dunno who he was building in that basement.
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I like the theory, but in real life, of course, once someone tried to embalm him, it'd be a little bit clearer that he's a host. "Flesh and blood" hosts aside, I'm pretty sure an undertaker would figure out something was amiss.
But perhaps that is all part of his faking his death, because he surely would have planned that all the way out through the burial or cremation stage, yes?
Wow, I'm overthinking this.
But perhaps that is all part of his faking his death, because he surely would have planned that all the way out through the burial or cremation stage, yes?
Wow, I'm overthinking this.
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Oh, an undertaker definitely would, but the park is closed off and overrun, so there's probably not going to be any opportunity. That said, I don't think that's what happened. I think he's really dead, that he eventually came around to Arnold's way of thinking and sacrificed himself in the same way.
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Agreed. And yeah, I wasn't sure how the park being overrun is going to play out if there's supposed to be a second season. In real life, eventually word would get out, things would get shut down and nailed down tight, and no more park. And since it looks like Maeve didn't leave, I do wonder what happens next. It was a great cliffhanger without being terribly annoying.
Did you watch past the end of the credits when they had a quick final scene with Armistice (blonde snake tattoo host)? I was amused that they did the "stay till the end of the credits" trick. Seriously, they have a huge hot mess of a park to clean up after to start off next season (assuming that's when they start).
Did you watch past the end of the credits when they had a quick final scene with Armistice (blonde snake tattoo host)? I was amused that they did the "stay till the end of the credits" trick. Seriously, they have a huge hot mess of a park to clean up after to start off next season (assuming that's when they start).
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Oh, an undertaker definitely would, but the park is closed off and overrun, so there's probably not going to be any opportunity. That said, I don't think that's what happened. I think he's really dead, that he eventually came around to Arnold's way of thinking and sacrificed himself in the same way.
Speaking of next season, I'm pretty sure now the remaining seasons are going to be the Hosts from Westworld trying to free Hosts from other parks. Which would be great, because it makes for an intense show and we get to see the other parks.
Also, how great was Armistice? I mean everyone was phenomenal, but the scenes with the gun and her reactions were a nice touch. Let's not forget that final credits scene. Termistice! By the way her name has an interesting meaning.
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