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Kill Bill, no Kill Tarantino

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Ok, I get what Tarantino was trying to do, so I don't want to hear that as an argument for why I thought the film was horrible. I am tired of people going "Ohh, you didnt like Kill Bill??? Are you serious???? Ohhh you just didn't get it" No, I did get it, the movie was just lame along with pretty much everything else he has done. Sorry if I sound peeved but I am tired of getting pooped on for not thinking he is god.

The movie was just plain dumb, thats all there was to it. Let me hear what you all think about it though good or bad, I just hope atleast one of you agrees with me out there so I won't feel alone any longer.



First question: WHY do you think it was a bad film. And yes, please answer NOT in stream of consciousness. Is this just your "gut" speaking, or do you have legitimate, explainable reasons why you DONT like them?

I should think that as YOU are the one looking for answers, you should at least set out YOUR argument first. It would help give a framework for an answer. Because frankly, I have no idea how to respond because I dont know WHY you dont like it.
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Sorry I guess I should have stated why I didn't like it, I am just used to getting cut off anytime I try to explain myself.

First thing is first, Kill Bill joined the ranks of the second and third Matrix movies to be the only movies that have managed to make a fight scene boring. It wasn't exciting at all.

Second, I realize it is a revenge flick and all about kickin som arse so maybe character development isn't that important. But come on they could have done something to make you care if she gets her revenge or not, I frankly wanted them to kill her so the movie would end.

Third, it just seemed like another movie he made to make everyone wet their pants over and inflate Tarantino's nerdy head even more. He made it knowing it was a stupid idea and that he lacked all of the necassary talent required to pull it off but did it anyways because he knew that he would be praised as this guy who didnt care what others thought and "made the movie he dreamed of making, his big action flick."

I will stop there for now and let you all yell at me



I think the character development was specifically delayed. AS youll note, the entire movie was filmed in retrospect from the lead's viewpoint--she was telling a story. And as stories often go, it came out piecemeal and backwards, with the reasoning for her actions often explained AFTER the fact (kind of like when you say "oh yeah" I forgot to tell you" in conversation).

So as far as "character development" Kill Bill 1 did NOT develop any character other than (a) Oren Ishii-i, and a little of (b) Vernita Green. It touched lightly on the Bride, Bill, Michael Madsen and Daryl Hannah's characters because they were to be developed in Vol 2.

Granted, the flicks werent deep and somber, and they didnt show her awful realization that she couldnt have a child with Bill and the personal gried in the aftermath (what happened after she left Bill and before he found her). Frankly, I think that was a judgment on Tarantino's part that it wasnt important.

And another thing: I thought the silences and stunted emotional responses were intentionally done in order to depict the type of people they were: killers. Stoic, accepting, highly trained killers. If you can train your physical response, surely you can train your emotional response (or at least the outward display, right?).

I kind of thought that Tarantino gave the profession some dignity.



So we both agree that there was little to no character development in the first one, so what makes you want to go see the second one? If you are going to have a sequel there should be a pull to go see the second right?

I think you are right with the silences and stunted emotions, thats fine I agree. But I still don't see any part in the movie where he makes you want to care about the outcome besides that lame attempt of humor where the guy comes in and wants to get with her when she is in a coma, is that supposed to make me feel bad for her? Does it make you want to see her get revenge on anyone who ever did anything wrong to here? Bah, no way. A character doesn't have to be an emotional wreck for you to care about what happens to them.



chicagofrog's Avatar
history *is* moralizing
uh, to the first paragraph above, i know i know, it happens to everyone, to give up after the first impressions, but isn't it like a band that has the balls to not hit you with their best songs as tracks 1 to 4 or so, but instead, put the experimental stuff first and the best songs are tracks 6, 9 and 12?? ok, now think about if they sent that tape to a potential producer... how many chances do they have that ANYone would listen to more than 20", not to mention one or 2 whole songs? so, it's definitely NOT commercial, but it means having some balls to be anti-commercial, or strategically bad. then again, ok, Tarantino is famous enough to risk it, i guess. but i don't find that such a bad idea to have to wait till a part 2, at least once in a while, it makes it original. not that i'd want that to be the case for all movies from now on...



Originally Posted by scissorhands85
So we both agree that there was little to no character development in the first one, so what makes you want to go see the second one? If you are going to have a sequel there should be a pull to go see the second right?
How incredibly interesting! Most of the people I know (me included) liked the first film better than the second film. Indeed, they were two different types of movies. You're the first person Ive met who liked the second better. How odd.

But Ill explain: Tarantino comes from a generation that appreciated the bloody, gory, violent revenge filled karate movies of the 80s and 90s. In fact, I think that my generation came in on the tail end of those kind of movies, more in the Van Damme, Bolo Yueng, Samo Hung, Michael Dudikoff, Cynthia Rothrock et al movies. Think: I can remember stuff like No Retreat, No Surrender, American Ninja, Bloodsport, etc. etc., plus all their sequels. Those were the days man! Now you figure that Tarantino's generation had a heavy appreciation for the Asian karate/samurai films, which were the forerunners to the American karate films. I mean, by the time I came up, Bruce Lee was dead and we only had the reruns. The Asian samurai films were already cult classics in the genre and have only since been reinvigorated by the likes of Jet Li and others.

So to me, Vol. 1 was like Tarantino's personal Mecca to the cult classics. In fact, if you watched the interview on the DVD, he admitted it! The bar fight with the Crazy 88 was styled off of the brawls in the Samurai flicks. And there are so many other examples.

You must understand though, that as an American, we only had the "dubbed" versions of the Samurai movies, so it always lent an air of humour to what would otherwise be horrifically violent. So it was with Vol. 1. I think what he attempted to do was to basically make an American samurai story, with all of the traditional elements and style of the cult classics, but with the addition of some sort of basic realism to the plot.

And frankly, I think he did a good job.

Not to ramble on, but as to Vol. 2, you have a violent departure from the spirit and mood of Vol. 1. If it were music, Id think of Vol. 2 as more of a mournful ballad, while Vol. 1 was a crashing adrenaline filled song of any genre (pick one that works for you: rock, rap, dance, etc.).

I liked them both, but I found 1 to be more action-centric, and 2 to be more slowly dramatic. And depending on the kind of movies you like, the vast difference b/t the two will determine whether you liked 1 or 2.

I still don't see any part in the movie where he makes you want to care about the outcome besides that lame attempt of humor where the guy comes in and wants to get with her when she is in a coma, is that supposed to make me feel bad for her?
Was it supposed to? I NEVER got the impression that she was supposed to be this wilted little woman, poor little thing that I ws to feel sorry for. In fact, I felt pity on her persecutors. Even when she was in the hospital.

A character doesn't have to be an emotional wreck for you to care about what happens to them.
Care to explain? You thought she was an emotional wreck? I could keep going with my observations on that sentence, but Id better not..



Originally Posted by mack
How incredibly interesting! Most of the people I know (me included) liked the first film better than the second film. Indeed, they were two different types of movies. You're the first person Ive met who liked the second better. How odd.
I think Vol. 2 was alot better than Vol.1. it had a more in-depth plot. most people i know like Vol.1 better but thats because im only 14 and most 14 year olds just want to see blood, killing and gore in a movie. most dont really care about character development and things like that.
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Arresting your development
The Kill Bill movies have been a huge help booster if I might add, in my life. I now know that I can handle any problem that comes day to day with the simple use of swordplay.

How can you not love the fact that a hang gun went off in a cereal box with the brand name KA-BOOM? Classic!
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Standing in the Sunlight, Laughing
Originally Posted by Anonymous Last
The Kill Bill movies have been a huge help booster if I might add, in my life. I now know that I can handle any problem that comes day to day with the simple use of swordplay.


How can you not love the fact that a hang gun went off in a cereal box with the brand name KA-BOOM? Classic!
Oh god, I missed that! That's too funny.
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Urban Cowboy's Avatar
Bad Morther****er
Kill Bill wasn't fantastic, but it was never supposed to be. It was ment from day one to be a high budget B movie. In my mind that's definatly what it was. Saying it didn't have character development is like complaining that a comedy didn't make you cry, it isn't ment to. And as to why I came back to see the second film, the cliffhanger was enough for me.

I thought the fight scene in Vol. 1 was great. First, the carzy 88's then Go-Go, then Oren Ishii-i. It was shot well. I loved all the blood. Last, the use of color was pretty good also.

Finally, it could have been worst, Kevin Smith could have done it.
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I know it is his samurai movie, I am pretty sure I said I got all of that. Trust me understand what he was trying to do.

As to the whole character development thing, I am not saying that there should have been all of these scenes showing where she came from and how she is feeling and all that nonsense, I am simply saying Tarantino gave no reason as to why anyone should give a damn about her. So the comedy and crying thing is way off.

I have no idea why you think I saw Kill Bill 2, I hated the first one and as I stated the first one gave you no reason to go back and see the second one so I didnt.

So is there anyone out there that didn't like this movie or am I all alone???



The Satchel Snatcher's on the loose
The other day i was watching Volume 1 again, i don't know if it was my mood, or the film, but i was realizing how busy it was. Tarantino has crammed at least four different genres into one film. I'm not sure how well it flows. Don't get me wrong, Tarantino is pretty cool, but he's definatly just a big movie dork that made it big. Could have been anyone of us with ambitions. I like the Kill Bill movie set, I would have liked to seen it edited a bit differently though, maybe disperse the action alittle better through out the conversation.
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Originally Posted by scissorhands85
I have no idea why you think I saw Kill Bill 2, I hated the first one and as I stated the first one gave you no reason to go back and see the second one so I didnt.
well you should definitly see Vol. 2. its got all the chracter devolopment and other things that vol. 1 was missing. And i think you should wait to see the whole film and not judge it by only seeing half of the movie.



Many people have said that the second movie wasn't as fast paced and high in energy as the first - and how right they are!
Vol 1. was a little more action based whereas Vol 2. was more the back story and used to "explain" the details of the story itself. Whether this fact disappointed you or not is entirely based on preference and taste.. However I actually really liked both movies in terms of style, and I really tend to think of Vol 1 and Vol 2 as one large movie with an interlude. Considering them as a whole, Vol 1 and Vol 2 were nicely balanced. This was actually what Tarantino intended to begin with but well into post-production it was decided that the rather lengthy feature was to be split into two "volumes". If you watch both movies successively it actually flows much nicer.

It's each to their own with this one actually.
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chicagofrog's Avatar
history *is* moralizing
"However I actually really liked both movies in terms of style, and I really tend to think of Vol 1 and Vol 2 as one large movie with an interlude."
yep, i don't think anybody should/could/would see Kill Bill as two (separate) movies, would they?



Messenger from Hades' Gate
Kill Bill is now probably one of my favorite films. However, it didn't become one of my favorites until BB came on the scene in Kill Bill 2. Up till that point, it seemed like a thoughtless blood bath. After that scene and then rewatching the entire thing, I now regard it as being one of the most thoughtful and best made films ever.
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A bunch of you have posted that I should not judge the Kill Bill Vol Uno because I have not seen dos. Well I disagree but I promise that I will make a point of renting it soon and who knows maybe it will change my mind.



im bringing this thread back up because i just watched kill bill vol 2 again and it was still great in my mind but i want to know if you scissorhand ever rented it yet and what you thought.