Two Types of "Serious" War Films: Dirty Letters and Love Letters

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Love Letters: The Heroic

After watching Nolan's Dunkirk it seemed to me that this was England sending a love-letter to itself (or rather an Englishman sending a love letter to England). Upon reflection, it seemed to me that many war movies are love letters. Saving Private Ryan is a love letter America sent to itself. Panfilov's 28 is Russia sending a love letter to herself.

These films, although showing the horrors of war, are still nationalistic, and speak to cultural virtues and the "people" (as a national "race") doing the fighting. Dunkirk, for example, shows us very British people with a stiff upper lip, doing their part to bring their boys home. Saving Private Ryan, could be served with a piece of apple pie.

The Germans, of course, are forever cast as the villain (that's the price you pay for losing two world wars and for the Holocaust), but Das Boot, at least, attempts to redeem the "common soldier" and is noteworthy as one of the very few films in which Germans are the protagonists.

Dirty Letters: The Pornography of Tragedy.

War is hell and boy are these films going to tell you about it! The whole genre of Vietnam guilt films fit in here: Hamburger Hill, Platoon, The Boys in Company C, Full Metal Jacket, etc.

Film, however, must also entertain and as a visual medium it must be appealing to the eye, so the best of these films make the most disgusting aspects of war beautiful. Thus, there is the notion that there is no such thing as an anti-war film, because film makes everything seem beautiful.

Honestly, however, the audience knows what they're doing. They know what they want (it's the same reason why people rubber neck at accident scenes slowing down traffic, it's why LiveLeak exists, it's why the Romans had gladiator pits, it's why public hangings were popularly attended as entertainment for centuries). The official "tragedy" of war (War is hell! I feel so bad! Why do we war?!?! Those poor souls) presented in those movies is, in part, a fig-leaf for the pleasure the audience takes in seeing people blown into tiny bits (KABOOM! They got Roy!). It's kind of like when people used to say that they read Playboy for the articles or when people caught with porn claim it was "research" (e.g., Pete Townsend). So, let's not just blame it on the medium.

And then there's Mel Gibson. Mel managed to make Jesus into torture porn, so of course, his American lover letter We Were Soldiers would also be a dirty letter (complete with images of people with their faces burned off patriotically stating that they were glad they could die for their country). In fairness, I think that it is historically accurate, but Mel just has that extra touch.

Is this all the potential that the "serious" war movie has? Is it just nationalism and/or giddy "Oh Dear! Show me more..." anti-war messaging?



Saving Private Ryan, could be served with a piece of apple pie.
Not understanding this comment at all.
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I’m here only on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays. That’s why I’m here now.



Have you seen Come and See?

Alas, I have not.



The trick is not minding
Glad to see someone else has watched Hamburger Hill. Although not as strong as Platoon nor Full Metal Jacket, it still manages to capture the hopelessness of a dire situation,in this case capturing the eponymous Hill, reflecting the views of the war.



Alas, I have not.
I think Come and See, Rosselini's War Trilogy, Ivan's Childhood, and the City of Life and Death defy your descriptions.



I think Come and See, Rosselini's War Trilogy, Ivan's Childhood, and the City of Life and Death defy your descriptions.

Categories tend to be brittle, but I believe that the pattern is there, nonetheless.



Categories tend to be brittle, but I believe that the pattern is there, nonetheless.
Have you seen them?



Have you seen them?

I don't understand.



I don't understand.
You said you hadn't seen CAS, so I was wondering if you'd seen the other films I said didn't fit your description.



Categories tend to be brittle, but I believe that the pattern is there, nonetheless.
The films he is citing are good examples of movies that don't fall into the dichotomy that you are presenting. They are deeply human stories that don't feel like celebrations of patriotism or a war-centric version of torture porn.

You asked if this was all the potential that "serious" war movies have and he's given you a list of films that show a different potential framing of the war movie.

Are most war movies going to escape the cliches of their different subgenres? Nah. Pretty much every genre has common narrative tropes. But there are plenty that do. Ivan's Childhood hadn't come to mind when I was first reading the thread, but it's a great place to start.



You said you hadn't seen CAS, so I was wondering if you'd seen the other films I said didn't fit your description.

But I already told you that I had not seen them.


If they defy the description, that's fine.



But I already told you that I had not seen them.


If they defy the description, that's fine.
You'd only said you hadn't seen Come and See.

You should watch them, given that you asked whether or not your premise was all the genre offered.

Unless you were just wanting us to go "oh yeah, that IS all it offers!" in which case, I'll just disagree and move on.



The films he is citing are good examples of movies that don't fall into the dichotomy that you are presenting. They are deeply human stories that don't feel like celebrations of patriotism or a war-centric version of torture porn.

You asked if this was all the potential that "serious" war movies have and he's given you a list of films that show a different potential framing of the war movie.

Are most war movies going to escape the cliches of their different subgenres? Nah. Pretty much every genre has common narrative tropes. But there are plenty that do. Ivan's Childhood hadn't come to mind when I was first reading the thread, but it's a great place to start.

I must concede that the last question in the OP gestures at a reduction that is not warranted. Indeed, my observation of Mel Gibson includes a case that doesn't clearly fit into either category, so my OP already notes the failure of the dichotomy to capture everything.



Nevertheless, it seems to me that this is a pronounced pattern, something typical.



Nevertheless, it seems to me that this is a pronounced pattern, something typical.
It is a pattern in the sense that a lot of war movies fall into either "war heroes" or "war is hell" narrative structures.

But quite a few good films buck that pattern, and I would strongly second all of the films that MKS recommended, especially Rossellini's trilogy of which I have seen the first and last film. Especially if war films are something you are interested in but you are tired of feeling like you're seeing the same cliches or structures over and over.



You'd only said you hadn't seen Come and See.
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.


You should watch them, given that you asked whether or not your premise was all the genre offered.

Unless you were just wanting us to go "oh yeah, that IS all it offers!" in which case, I'll just disagree and move on.


Who doesn't offer a thought in the hopes of getting some confirmation?



I'll grant that the last line of the OP is overstated in the assumption of the closing question, which suggests a grand reduction (as I noted with Takoma). Pretend that that line isn't there.



What I am more interested in than idiosyncratic exceptions are other dominant patterns in the genre. Don't get me wrong, I am interested in seeing good films and I appreciate the recommendations, however, what I am really on about are the narrative patterns that we see within the genre.



It is a pattern in the sense that a lot of war movies fall into either "war heroes" or "war is hell" narrative structures.

But quite a few good films buck that pattern, and I would strongly second all of the films that MKS recommended, especially Rossellini's trilogy of which I have seen the first and last film. Especially if war films are something you are interested in but you are tired of feeling like you're seeing the same cliches or structures over and over.

I don't know that I am particularly interested in war films, per se, but we're all interested in good films, so if they're good films that's a strong enough inducement. Again, what I am most interested in are patterns that are typical of the genre--the rules more than the exception. What is the psychology of the war movie? War do they make them? Why do we watch them?