MoFo MC May: Carnage (2011)

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- Black comedy
- Based on a French stage play
- Only 4 actors; only a couple rooms
- "Adults" talking about "children"
- "Civility" + "inflexibility" = Extended "discussions"
- Facilitation coming later since no one notices the questions until I mention them again

As I mentioned in the poll, one basic thing to consider is comparison between stage and cinematic elements and how they're combined to as much effect as possible. I'm also going to see if I can get ahold of the screenplay to compare.



With a title like "Carnage" and a director like Roman Polanski, I thought I was in for some serious blood sport---although the audience I saw this with earlier this year obviously knew they were coming for a good chuckle ... so they brought their popcorn and howled at everything.

And with good reason. There's quick humor everywhere. Penelope wants to maintain a certain social distance, though she's invited the Cowans into her home and hubby Michael likes to talk; she's displeased with him blurting out personal information. While showing Alan the bathroom, she's embarrassed he's glimpsing their intimate life. She quickly straightens the bed, hides a box of tampons under the sink, picks up a pair of panties (?) from the floor, throws some tissues in the wastebasket. Although when she returns to get some of Michael's (unused) cologne, she obviously has no problem barging in on him, standing there in his underwear blow drying his slacks dry.

In the living room, when Michael holds out a towel for Nancy to wipe her face, Penelope takes it to wipe off her art books---clearly expressing more distress at her ruined coffee table books, than her disfigured son---Nancy (with expert timing) nonchalantly snatches back from her. Both men are suddenly perk up and are proud of their progeny when the word "gang" is mentioned. Penelope and Nancy bond over a couple of Bacon paintings.


- "I wuz playing in the park"
 
There's also constant parallels between the innocent horse play of children that occasionally leaves someone hurt and crying with their own mistakes of impropriety---that by their own reckoning---even a child would know better, and yet as mature adults, they just as hapless making these same errors of judgement.

Each character are each given a kind of fetish object. Penelope and her art books, connecting her to civilization. Michael and his top drawer scotch, his treat for a hard day's work. Nancy and her designer purse which she uses to accentuate her great beauty and Alan with his power phone.

Although a stage play, this is not a huis clos. For instance: a camera follows Penelope as she leads Alan through their apartment to a bathroom, which firmly anchors the living room within a larger living space. The Cowans can leave at any time and they even manage to get to the hallway elevator twice, which establishes the apartment within a building. The windows are open to outside world with a view of the passing EL. Polanski has opened it up enough to avoid it becoming claustrophobic. The mirror in the front foyer also deepens the space. It also creates as tension as I would unconsciously look for the camera crew in certain shots. My only quibble would be the obvious placement of the television in the corner of the room, it's large reflective surface would have been problematic otherwise. I also thought the lighting was really great.

The vase of the yellow tulips dominates the living room (notice the tulip shaped lightning fixtures in the dining room) At the outset, Penelope seems to be nonchalant about the bouquet and a certain flower shop, though later on, Michael blurts out that he was sent out expressly at the crack of dawn to fetch them, so this is a deliberate ruse on her part to appear more cultured. It's also telling in the final scene of the film, Nancy trashes this deliberate effort on Penelope's part.

At the outset, there are two distinct couples, though gradually through the interactions the loyalties sift around. There's friction in both marriages. They all express childish vanity for being right while all around them were in the wrong and the casual martyrdom that comes with being superior to everyone else ... "This was the worst day of my life"

They seem to know the forms of social interaction of their privileged world, though in practice they're a little rusty. There's a nice idea they have to be implicated in their children's life and put their symbolic stamp of approval on everything, because obviously so much of it is out of their control. But there's a great comfort that comes with working the percentages: safer playgrounds; the correct toys; better schools; associating with the right kind of people; living in the right part of town; mingling with the right kind of society and following proper social etiquette.

At the bottom of all this, is the very privileged idea that one can manage the randomness and chaos of life. But chaos is a funny thing; if Zachary was only an inch farther away when he swung the stick, it would have left only a scratch or a mild bruise on Ethan's face. And the whole incident becomes a non event.

There's a nice counter point between their discussion and Alan's work. He's a corporate fixer, anything that could affect the earning potential of his pharmaceutical corporation is mircomanaged away. A report linking one of their drugs to fatal side effects has just surfaced and he's quietly working the problem. This is his typical day at the office and he's quietly framing it to death.

Alan and Nancy are more affluent. They both work at high paying jobs; while Penelope seems to be a stay at home mom and Michael is a door to door salesman. This balance of power is briefly alluded to, Alan and Nancy being more wealthy (the God of carnage favors the rich) If Michael and Penelope wanted to get litigious, Alan could knock their teeth out with one rap of his knuckles.

As a work of a cinema, I think this story needed a bigger ending. The film ends not with a bang, but with a whimper when Nancy takes out the flowers and flings them around the room. I also think another character would have added a little more imbalance and tension to the proceedings---with four characters, they always tend to divide nicely into two even groups.
 


Q: Accountability skills? Can one learn empathy?

Q: Why wasn't this the worst day of Michael's life?

Q: Is this the first film where Kate Winslet has burped onscreen?

Q: When the blueberry goes into the flower vase, was that simple product placement or an actual commercial showing it's remarkable water resistance capabilities?

Q: Who was the old lady in the hallway who peeked from behind her door? What did she mutter?

Q: Would you name your child Elvis?
 


The film Screenplay is here:
http://www.sonyclassics.com/awards-information/screenplays/carnage_screenplay.pdf

Even without reading the original stage play I can guarantee Christopher Hampton's English translation will be superior to anything Polanski and Reza cooked up a couple of weeks in Paris.



Love your response, td. I'm about to rewatch this after having read the original screenplay for the stage, which I managed to find in a store. I scanned it and will send the pdf to anyone interested.



I'm hoping to get this seen by the end of the week. As I've not seen it, I've not read any of the posts on this thread. Once I've seen it, hopefully I'll have something to say.
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Carnage is a film directed by Roman Polanski it is a dark comedy about two pairs of parents Penelope Longstreet played by Jodie foster. And her husband Michael Longstreet played by john cj Riley and their child Ethan Longstreet played by Eliot Berger. Meeting the parents of the child who assaulted ethan with a stick Nancy Cowan played by Kate Winslet and her husband Alan Cowan played by Christoph Waltz. And their son Zachary Cowan played Elvis Polanski while i watched i didn't expect much but i found it extremely hilarious this might. Be one my favorite movies of the year the character development or Decay of development is just great. How the characters just deteriorate and because their trues self's and their. True self's just happen to be dark and twisted over all i would give it a 5/5 completely hilarious its just a shame that Roman Polanski its not that i hate roman i love his movies i just hate the baggage that comes with being a fan-Bornix.



Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
I have a few thoughts about the film.

The framing scenes were very lowkey but still explained a lot. You do have to pay attention to them but they reveal a lot about the two boys' relationship, not to mention the hamster.

The film is very short (75 minutes not counting the end credits) but it still manges to make a slow buildup, even though at no point do any adults get as "physical" as Zachary did. I'll admit that the film just ends, but it's right after the most outrageous racist comments from the men, both seemingly attacking Penelope.

I wondered why Christolph Waltz's dialogue seemed so calm and tight-mouthed. I thought it might be because of his accent that he wanted to hide, but then I wondered if it had to with his character and his basic perspective of always denying responsibility since he earns his big bucks as a lawyer by "protecting" his clients. He makes a comment about going to the Pentagon the next day, and I thought what is he going to do there? Does he have a terrorist or weapons salesman client or is it just another in-house military embarrassment which needs to be quieted down?

Both couples seem unhappy with their own spouses, but they need the presence of the other couple to let their innermost feelings out. That, and a stiff drink or two, really gets the fur to fly at the end of the film. Of course, that's reminiscent of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, but I find this play/film to be totally original and not dependent on the earlier one.

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And with good reason. There's quick humor everywhere. Penelope wants to maintain a certain social distance, though she's invited the Cowans into her home and hubby Michael likes to talk; she's displeased with him blurting out personal information. While showing Alan the bathroom, she's embarrassed he's glimpsing their intimate life. She quickly straightens the bed, hides a box of tampons under the sink, picks up a pair of panties (?) from the floor, throws some tissues in the wastebasket. Although when she returns to get some of Michael's (unused) cologne, she obviously has no problem barging in on him, standing there in his underwear blow drying his slacks dry.

In the living room, when Michael holds out a towel for Nancy to wipe her face, Penelope takes it to wipe off her art books---clearly expressing more distress at her ruined coffee table books, than her disfigured son---Nancy (with expert timing) nonchalantly snatches back from her. Both men are suddenly perk up and are proud of their progeny when the word "gang" is mentioned. Penelope and Nancy bond over a couple of Bacon paintings.
I'm glad you noticed all that about Penelope. I'll add a couple for her: Claims high compassion for world issues yet lives in a pollution capital and doesn't realize the irony of claiming superiority over "simpler" people because of it...let alone her inability to acknowledge any fault whatsoever. She's so despicable, I know a few people like her so perhaps seeing this caricature being mocked made it even funnier.

There's also constant parallels between the innocent horse play of children that occasionally leaves someone hurt and crying with their own mistakes of impropriety---that by their own reckoning---even a child would know better, and yet as mature adults, they just as hapless making these same errors of judgement.
I'd like to think I'm not alone in saying that as a child I experienced a number of physical altercations with friends, even friends I have today. Alan was dead-on to say they don't know better, and I find it hilarious Penelope would continue to ask if their child had all these sophisticated elements no one could possibly attain without life experience. But the children don't really care, as they're back to being friends at the end of the day.

If anything the parents are trying to exercise their own battle, and not necessarily for any reason. Though, I would say Nancy and Alan are less in that field because most of their battles deal with reactions to Penelope and Michael insinuating evil of their child.

Each character are each given a kind of fetish object. Penelope and her art books, connecting her to civilization. Michael and his top drawer scotch, his treat for a hard day's work. Nancy and her designer purse which she uses to accentuate her great beauty and Alan with his power phone.
Just like children and their favorite toy. Clever but not so subtle symbolism there. Still instrumental.
Polanski has opened it up enough to avoid it becoming claustrophobic.
I wonder how much more intense it would be without the movement between rooms. It's probably best that he kept that to a minimum but it's peculiar that every time it happens, the other 2 or 3 characters have a quick say.
My only quibble would be the obvious placement of the television in the corner of the room, it's large reflective surface would have been problematic otherwise.
I honestly didn't consider this but it makes sense. I felt the TV was a decoration as Penelope wouldn't dare expose her children to that "low art."

Originally Posted by mark f
I wondered why Christolph Waltz's dialogue seemed so calm and tight-mouthed. I thought it might be because of his accent that he wanted to hide, but then I wondered if it had to with his character and his basic perspective of always denying responsibility since he earns his big bucks as a lawyer by "protecting" his clients. He makes a comment about going to the Pentagon the next day, and I thought what is he going to do there? Does he have a terrorist or weapons salesman client or is it just another in-house military embarrassment which needs to be quieted down?
I think he was concise because he didn't want to be there and the only time he had more than a few words to say was during a phone call or during a logic debate with the other couple, which he found to be his strong suit. I figure like you that the Pentagon thing was him quieting down another potential catastrophe just like with the pharmaceutical stuff. Though, notice that he did tell Michael's mother to stop taking the meds until after the surgery, so for a lawyer he at least has a bit of sensibility in that regard.





After watching Fearless Vampire killers I said that Polanski should stay away from comedies. While this one wasn't that bad it wasn't good either.

One of the early problems was that Jodie Fosters character of Penelope was overly annoying. The consistency of her to bring up zachery just made me one a throw a little kids tantrum an start yelling for that bitch to shut up. A second large problem was I believe when movies have two sides that you should be divided. I just found myself annoyed at both of the women at the end.

Unlike FVK though this one was funny. Watching the non-stop arguments was hilarious. The back and fourth between couples and then sexes was funny as hell. At first it was Liberal vs Conservative and then it was those who care vs those who don't. At the end they were worse than the children.

It did feel like a play as it was based on one. And as it was always in one place you kind of got sucked into it. If Penelope wouldn't be so damn annoying I could really sink into this.

2.5 stars



The way you described it, I'm not sure why you didn't like it. I hate Penelope possibly more than you, but that's the point! Satire generally has undesirable characters, maybe I'm just used to it.



The way you described it, I'm not sure why you didn't like it. I hate Penelope possibly more than you, but that's the point! Satire generally has undesirable characters, maybe I'm just used to it.
Oh I understand that they wanted an undesirable character but to the point that I want to yell is pushing it. Especially right at the beginning. Like in the movie Jumping The Broom how far extreme the people were just ruined it. Made me feel so annoyed. I mean I can hate a character and love a movie, but they pushed it over with her.



Smells mystical, doesn't it?
Oh I understand that they wanted an undesirable character but to the point that I want to yell is pushing it. Especially right at the beginning. Like in the movie Jumping The Broom how far extreme the people were just ruined it. Made me feel so annoyed. I mean I can hate a character and love a movie, but they pushed it over with her.

I have to agree with Donnie on this one. I had pretty high-expectations with this movie because I love Christoph Waltz, Kate Winslet, and Jodie Foster.

But, I think the movie relied pretty heavily on witty banter and cleverness and it didn't have nearly as much as it needed. And, like Donnie said the characters had become so exceedingly irritating that it was no longer charming or humorous, but just plain annoying.



Finally got to see this. Not bad. It's about what I'd expected based on what I knew going in. But it's expertly handled, to be sure. If I'd seen this before a number of similar stage-to-film adaptations, I'd probably be more taken with it.

Obviously, I love the symbolism of the adults needlessly complicating what, in a child's world, is a relatively straightforward event with a relatively straightforward solution. One kid insults another, the kid hits back, they make up and move past it. And, of course, the idea that what the adults do to each other, with no physical contact, is far more damaging to a person's well-being than getting hit with a stick, is a good one. Mankind is far too clever to restrict itself to only harming physically. We've learned it's much more effective (and perversely cathartic, at least in the moment) to burrow into someone's mind and leave some terrible form of self-doubt to gnaw at them from the inside.

The performances are great; Waltz gets the most fun character, Foster the most challenging, I think. And man, Foster nails it. She was oozing nervous hostility. She probably plays a role like this in her sleep, but that doesn't make it any less impressive. Everyone's great, but most of the film's tension comes from her subtle reactions in the first 10 minutes. It really sets the stage, no pun intended.



I particularly liked Waltz's mini-interrogation of her use of the word "deliberately." That type of thing, in real conversations, drives me up the wall, and I got a kick out of it being called out, even in a piece of fiction.

It was interesting to see how they found just enough in the way of interjection to break up any possibility of monotonous conversation; the phone calls to Waltz' character, the vomit, phone calls from the mother, pouring drinks. I think there were a few too many (and maybe one too many false-endings in the beginning, since we all know they're not going anywhere), but it broke things up nicely. I always enjoy trying to spot the general structure of stagecraft when it's translated into film like this.

I'll agree that the film's held back by the noxious characters. I get that that's the point, but that doesn't make it more entertaining or engaging. They could have been just as odorous, but felt much less irritating, if they'd been, say, a little funnier.

I liked it fine, though. I'll echo lines' idea that it needed a bigger ending. There are lots of possibilities here; even something truly extreme, like one character killing another, or hitting them in the mouth with some adult-version of a stick. That might have been heavy-handed, but nothing about this film was especially subtle, so I'd have preferred it degenerate into a more obvious farce to put an exclamation point on all those many, many sentences.




Do you wanna party? Its party time!
Although this film disappointed me a little, I still liked it a lot and most of the humor works really well. I also dug that Polanski not only returned to comedy, but he also managed to feature the film in a really claustrophobic setting (an apartment) just like many of his earlier films. Which was a cool touch. The cast was all great, but that's what you get when you have that particular bunch of talented actors squaring off against one another.



If I'd seen this before a number of similar stage-to-film adaptations, I'd probably be more taken with it.
New can of worms altogether; what can stage adaptations do differently today that's even more exciting?

I particularly liked Waltz's mini-interrogation of her use of the word "deliberately." That type of thing, in real conversations, drives me up the wall, and I got a kick out of it being called out, even in a piece of fiction.
It was little bits like this which made him my favorite. Especially "Just because their marriage is f*cked doesn’t mean we have to compete!" Is it me or were the men the only ones commenting on family?
- "Marriage is the most terrible ordeal God can inflict upon you...Marriage and children
- "Children consume and fracture our lives"

Michael was peculiarly hilarious later on in his mockery of his wife. I do see this all the time in real life as well and I see the flames in their eyes and wonder what I'll miss when I leave. After Penelope barrage-punches him he restated "She’s a supporter of peace and stability in the world."
Penelope: “SHUT UP!”

Maybe others haven't had the same experience with these kinds of couples but it seems like I got more out of those bits. This film feels like it was taken from my childhood memories, and in hindsight I notice that whenever there was an issue between another child and I, no parent wanted to take the blame IN FACT this just happened at the July 4th party haha but anyway lines like "OUR son wants to talk about it" from Michael or "There is NOT wrong on both sides! Don’t mix up victims and executioners!" from Penelope, they're typical "our child was raised right" responses. The punishment concept was also in my memories from whenever my neighbor and I scuffled a bit as kids; our parents would scream at each other because punishment wasn't under their control. It's actually pretty sick now that I think about it, so the question "how are you planning on punishing him?" really would have been the point, if there was one, when a murder could have happened.

More on Penelope, the projectionist phony, “oh I reacted poorly,” as if she cares. She also mentions how Annette is a phony, ultimate irony. She claims their child is a public menace but has no concept of society; between her and Alan:

P: I forbid you to stand in any kind of judgment over our relationship!
A: Then don’t stand in judgment over my son
P: That’s got nothing to do with it, your son injured ours!
A: They’re kids, they have always given each other a good drubbing, it’s the law of life.
P: No it isn’t! Not in our society!
A: Explain society.

She can't be a lover or appreciator of society or art when she says things like "I don’t have a sense of humor and I have no intention of acquiring one"

Civility is an instrument of destruction:
Penelope says “behaving well gets you nowhere...it weakens and undermines you”
(Well that’s only true given the civility is a veil hiding ferocity)

Also, one thing the play made sense of that wasn't translated well: in the play the word “snitch” is “grass” which is British slang for someone who snitches to the police about criminals, so the word has higher stakes in that sense.

It was interesting to see how they found just enough in the way of interjection..... I always enjoy trying to spot the general structure of stagecraft when it's translated into film like this.
I almost feel it worked better on the screen because of this just in terms of framing each interruption. The setting stretches to hallway and kitchen and bedroom, making it all the more tense to have to be dragged back into the living room. Based on my (limited) experience with live plays, these sorts of interruptions are very hard to handle unless the play is incredibly self-aware, like The 39 Steps.

I'll agree that the film's held back by the noxious characters. I get that that's the point, but that doesn't make it more entertaining or engaging. They could have been just as odorous, but felt much less irritating, if they'd been, say, a little funnier.
I did notice it much more AFTER having read the french play in the original language. The tonality of the tongues is so different, so I now understand this complaint, plus you don't get the same impression in the french that they will murder each other, but even if they did it wouldn't be climactic, merely a catalyst for another argument.



I enjoyed the film- saw it at the cinema and there were many laughs of recognition. I wouldn't say that it was an earth-shattering film. It was more like an enjoyable night at the theatre at the cinema.