C.S.I and how crimes are portrayed

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Hi all

I am an alevel media student in the process of creating my critical research project and i was woundering if any of you had an oppinion on how crimes are portrayed in both T.V programmes and Films.

The main area of my research is how it seems that crimes are solved in such small spaces of time

If any of you could help me i would be very great full

the a pickup



Will your system be alright, when you dream of home tonight?
My opinion on CSI:Miami, if the chick from "NewsRadio" can do it, I can. Someone get me a cadaver quick!
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it would be apriciated if you made sense with replys thank you



Real police have huge crime loads. They cannot just dedicate ALL of their time to one crime till it is solved. They also have lots and lots of paperwork to do on minor crimes. In real life, the boss of a group of police is not in the front line all the time but is often only called in on dangerous situations. Police make a lot of use of informers to solve cases. As in The Shield to some extent, there are bad police about who beat up innocent and guilty people, who take bribes, who commit crimes, etc. And of course, there are incompetent police.

Catching a crook is half the battle. You then have to win in court where crooks can often deny what is said and what happened. And then there are the liars, sorry, lawyers as well as incompetent and senile judges as well as do-gooders.

Crimes on TV and films are totally unrealistic where eventually it all works according to plan and the bad guys lose. Most don't even read a suspect their rights, which can invalidate an arrest.

Police come in all shapes and sizes and are not all male and female models. Maverick cops usually end up sacked and cops who handle very dangerous criminals on their own either end up sacked or more likely, dead.
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A system of cells interlinked
TV - NOT REAL

LIFE - REAL

That's the difference. The show would get canceled if they showed all the wasted time, boredom, and dead ends police constantly run into. Making an exciting drama is what the creators are concerned about, as opposed to a realistic view of forensics.
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” ― Thomas Sowell



Hello Salem, my name's Winifred. What's yours
I think Law and Order is more interesting from a police perspective because it shows the investigation and then the aftermath of that ad how it progresses through the court system which often gets neglected in TV shows. It shows more cooperation between official departments.

CSI is interesting because it relies on forensics to solve the crime rather police legwork. While this is often more gory and visually exciting it doesn't ring true a lot of the time.

More often than not in movies theres one or more corrupt officers, not sure what the obsession is with tarnishing the badge but there's always one.
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it would be apriciated if you made sense with replys thank you
Some folks in this forum think I'm too hard on you alevel students in pointing out you should be researching facts in a library rather than seeking opinions from nameless, faceless sources on the internet who may or may not have a single fact on your subject.

So out of curiosity, I looked up some of the listed alevel media sites online. Here's what one had to say on the subject of research, with added emphasis in italics:

Do check names/dates/facts with alternative sources, and remember that opinions are opinions and may be completely unfounded.

Beware!!!! There is a lot of misinformation out there. Try to check everything you read, and, remember, if you use information from a website QUOTE YOUR SOURCE as part of your bibliography. . . . Remember that adequate research involves using information from the Internet AND the available textbooks. At A2 especially you will need to research topics in great depth - books are absolutely the best for this! Websites offer a great overview and introduction, but if you really want to understand a topic, hit the library.

http://www.mediaknowall.com/alevel.html

No matter how many crime movies and TV shows a person may watch, most people know damn little about how real crimes are investigated. The people you should be polling are police officers and criminal trial lawyers; they also see movies and TV, some as many as anyone in this forum, and they can best spot the difference between crimes in make-belief vs. the real world.

Your second best source would be an old newspaper reporter who spent years covering beats at courthouses and "cop shops." And by sheer luck, you've stumbled onto one such source--me. I've spent 30 years as a reporter, including more than a decade running hundreds of crime scenes and covering hundreds of trials in small towns, medium-size metropolitan areas and the fourth largest city in the US, Houston, Tex.

The biggest difference between film and life is that there usually isn't much mystery in real crimes, because usually the culprit is someone from the same neighborhood and someone saw the crime committed. In murder cases, it's usually a family member, friend, or neighbor. Almost always the killer and victim are of the same ethnic background. And most times it's a crime of passion, love, hate, jealousy. And in most cases, it never goes to trial because the perpetrator's lawyer will plead out when the prosecution offers a lesser sentence for a lesser crime (man-slaughter rather than murder, maybe) in order to avoid a trial. Many times they get as far as seating a jury before the defendant grabs the offered plea. These are what law officers and reporters refer to as "misdemeanor murders"--both the victim and the perp are from the same background, same race, same income level, usually poor. To be brutally honest, they're nobodies and nobody gives a damn about the crime one way or another.

Give you an example--I once covered a crime scene in some dive where two guys were playing pool and got to arguing over who won or lost. One of the players pulls a pistol and shoots the other player dead in front of half a dozen witnesses. Then he goes through the dead man's pockets to get the 50-cent bet they were arguing over. Having finished his business there, the man--a regular at the club--walks to his apartment a few blocks up the street.

Sometimes law officers dispose of a defendent without ever having to go to trial. Sometimes it's just a matter of sending the perp back to prison on a parole violation. And then there was the time out in West Texas when an illegal immigrant working on a farm outside of Lubbock took a double-bladed ax and killed two other illegal immigrants. It was the one time I ever encountered the "double ax murder" that jaded reporters wish for on a slow news day, and I was looking forward to covering the case. But when I stopped by the DA's office the next morning to check what charges were filed, I found there would be no charges and no trial because the county had already handed over the mentally disturbed killer--to the immigration service for immediate deportation back to Mexico. "Let the Mexican government pay to institutionalize him," the DA explained.

Even among the middle class, the crimes generally are cut and dried. Like the police captain who shot his wife in bed and tried to pass it off as a suicide. Except the way he told the story, the woman would have had to be a contortionist to get the gun from a drawer on his side of the bed and shoot herself at that angle with that hand while he was struggling to stop her. In the end, he pleaded out.

I covered one murder via a telephone interview with the killer before the police captured him. Man shot his wife down in their front yard in view of several neighbors then went into his house. I got the address from the police dispatcher sending out officers with backup, used the cross-directory to look up the telephone number at that address, and dialed it up. Phone rang and the man answered. Told me he killed his wife; he may have even told me why, but I don't remember the reason. I asked if there was anyway to get him to come out of the house without anyone else getting hurt. He said he'd like to talk to his daughter. By then the operator was cutting in on the line to connect him with the police outside, so I called up a detective I knew in homicide and told him the daughter might talk the man out. Sure enough, she did.

If no one sees the killer, he isn't an obvious suspect, and doesn't confess his crime, the next main method of catching a criminal is that someone tips off the police. Usually another criminal looking for a softer sentence on whatever rap he's facing. But it can also be an angry wife or girlfriend or a accomplice who'd rather his partner take the hard fall.

I never made an actual count, but I bet there were not more than a dozen times that I saw police even take fingerprints at a crime scene, much less check blood splatters and such things. I've never seen a real cop do that scene where blood stains become visible in a certain kind of light. First of all, as I said, there usually is no need for such things--an experienced detective and the medical examiner can get all they need from examining the crime scene and the body the way it has always been done. Plus when the crime scene is a bar, a place of business, an alley where people come and go, the killer would die of old age before you could run down all the fingerprints you would find.

For most killers, it's a one-time thing; they kill the one person who offends them--the wife, another pool player--and there is no reason for them to kill again. But even serial killers may not make the news for a long time unless they do something to draw attention to themselves, like killing someone who is missed when he or shee suddenly disappear.

Great example is Dean Coryl, Houston's "Candy Man" who for years had two teenage helpers bringing him young boys to rape and kill. Many of the kids had records as runaways and JDs, and even their own families thought they had just taken off again. Some families probably weren't all that sorry that they were gone. No one had a clue what was going on until Coryl turned on one of his helpers who shot him to death and afterward told police where to find all of the bodies. The young killer was with police as they dug up one of the burial spots, and at some point said he'd like to talk to his mom. A enterprising TV reporter offered to let him use his car phone. Guy tells Mom, "I just killed Dean," which not only went through the phone lines to his mom but also to the TV station where the confession was recorded.

One of the coldest killers I ever saw was a guy picked up in Houston after they found women's bodies buried at his former residenences in California and some Great Lakes state. This guy really hated women--said their only use was as recepticles for male sperm. But the person who got a confession out of him was a petite red-headed female homicide detective who knew just how to work the creep's ego. She was better than "The Closer" on TV who usually gives us 45 minutes of personal trauma vs. 15 minutes of slicked over police investigation. But in real life, that only happened in one case.



As in The Shield to some extent, there are bad police about who beat up innocent and guilty people, who take bribes, who commit crimes, etc. And of course, there are incompetent police.

Catching a crook is half the battle. You then have to win in court where crooks can often deny what is said and what happened. And then there are the liars, sorry, lawyers as well as incompetent and senile judges as well as do-gooders.
Let me say a word here about "bad" police I've encountered. Most of us would agree that beating up a suspect is harsh and unusual punishment and not quite the fairness we expect from law enforcement. But back when I started covering the police beat for newspapers, an old-time cop told me about the pre-Miranda days when officers were able to work some areas only because they had reputations as being badder than the bad guys. He told me about one particular offender who had a bad habit of attacking officers when they tried to arrest him. Guy had inflicted some pretty bad injuries on some officers. So one day a couple of big detectives took him into custody and into an office in homicide where they proceeded to kick the crap out of him. The perp was giving as good as he got for awhile before they finally beat him down. The guy telling the story said the turning point in the battle came when one detective broke a wooden hat rack over the perp's back. However, he said, after the perp got out of the hospital, he never again resisted arrest. He would run, but he never raised a hand against another policeman, which was a blessing for some of the young inexperenced officers he might have encountered.

Knew the police chief in a small town who had earlier worked in uniform in Houston. He was a big guy, but one day an even bigger suspect resisted his arrest. After the perp hit him a couple of times, the policeman went for his gun, but his opponent laughingly took the pistol from him, tossed it down a street drain, and proceeded to beat the bloody hell out of the officer. The guy was walking away when another policeman arrived at the scene. The wounded officer was only able to point at the perp, so the second policeman set off in a dead run and, as he caught up with the perp, hit him as hard as he could in the back of the head with his night stick, which put the culprit facedown on the pavement. The officer recovered physically from his beating, but not mentally. He once told me he'd kill a suspect rather than let one lay hands on him again.

The worse offense a person can commit is "contempt of cop." People with an attitude who want to tell off or fight a policeman are going to have the full weight of the law drop down on a personal level. One way to almost guarantee police will beat the crap out of you when they catch you is to start a car chase. I've listened to plenty of car chases via the radio messages piped into the newsroom, and even just sitting there safely out of danger, the excitement really gets your blood pumping. Add to that the fact that many officers have seen the deadly consequences of such chases. I remember one incident where some kids were drag racing on city streets and a police car got after them. One of the drivers cuts through a residential and turns off his lights while racing thorugh a neighborhood. Ran a stop sign and creamed a VW, killing a young couple and their two children. Case ends up before a justice of the peace in front of a 6-member jury who gave him the maximum sentence under law--2 years in prison.

That's why I never cared that the drivers the police were chasing showed up at the police station scraped and bruised--in some cases, that was the only real "justice" meted out to them. On the other hand, sometimes an officer makes a bad mistake, as happened with one teenager who tried to outrun the cops in a car chase. When they caught him, one officer ran up to the kid and hit him with gun in hand. Unfortunately, the gun went off, hitting the kid in the head and killing him. Cops tried to cover it up, but about a decade later a TV cameraman who had been at the scene and saw what happened came forward to tell how the officer planted a gun on the teen and claimed self-defense. What happened to the kid was wrong, what the officer did was dumb in using a firearm to hit a person. Guns are dangerous; sometimes they go off when you least expect it. Cops made a big mistake in trying to cover that up. But one of the real villains in the piece was the TV cameraman who sat on the truth for years before coming forward.

And then sometimes stuff just happens. Like the time a couple of Houston patrolmen picked up this one suspect for some violation. The perp was a regular customer and either mouthed off or took a swing at a cop--anyway did something to tick off the officers who slapped him around a little "to teach him a lesson." Took him to the city jail. But the police lieutenant in charge of the jail that night saw the suspect's cuts and bruises and followed correct procedure in telling the arresting officers to take him to the county hospital for examination and treatment. This really teed off the arresting officers; as I remember it, the suspect was drunk and either had already thrown up in the police car or did so as they left the police station. So the two patrolmen called up two or more buddies on patrol to meet them at one of the "secret" spots where cops would go for a quick nap--or a quick lay--in their cars and for unofficial "interegation" of offenders. They proceeded to slap the hand-cuffed prisoner some more--not the severe beating earlier described by that veteran detective, but more than enough to violate all of his rights and all legal police procedures. Then rather than take the prisoner to the hospital as ordered and filling out an arrest report, the officers thought it would be funny to dump him in Buffalo Bayou, a nasty river through downtown Houston. According to testimony later, the officers set the prisoner on a low-level brick wall along the bayou's bank and removed his handcuffs. They asked him if he could swim; they said he told them yes. So they pushed him over in the bayou and left the scene. Their reasoning at the time was that they were getting even for the trouble the prisoner had caused him, and he avoids being booked on whatever charge he was picked up for. Except the next day the prisoner is found drown in the bayou. And witnesses pop up to say the last time he was seen he was being taken to city jail. Jailhouse records show he was brought in but sent to the hospital for evaluation. Hospital says he never got here. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to trace the problem to the arresting officers, especially when one of the other officers at the scene gives it up to save at least a slice of his own behind.

As for "liar-lawyers, incompetent and senile judges, and do-gooders," I've talked to many lawyers and judges about the administration of justice. I asked district attorneys at the state and local levels about the kind of anger the prosecutor exhibits on Law and Order when a perp goes free despite all of the seemingly convincing evidence. Their usual answer is that it really doesn't matter much if the offender got off this time, because sooner or later, particularly in cases involving drugs, burglary and robbery, he'll commit another offense, get caught again, and they'll get another crack at putting him away. Usually works out that way. Like one detective once told me, "Criminals are basically dumb. They keep committing the same crimes the same way until eventually the odds catch up with them." Time and numbers are on the side of law enforcement officers. Basically it comes down to one criminal trying to outfox hundreds of thousands of cops who have all the time in the world to get the crook.

I assume that the remark about judges was in reference to sentencing. Every judge I've ever talked to says it's really the juries who set the punishment phase, even in cases not tried before juries. It's easy to figure out the average sentences handed down by various juries for the same offence in the same town. The judges know what juries usually give; so does the defendent's lawyer, and in many cases so does the defendent since this ain't exactly his first rodeo. As one judge put it, "If I start handing down harsher sentences than the juries do, then pretty soon no defendent will plea out because they rather take their chances with a sympathetic jury, and then the trial system will really bog down."

Despite silly incidents in film and TV, I've never known a judge who I would describe as "soft on crime." Most are experts on the law because they continue studying their whole careers and experience has taught them a lot about defendents, their lawyers, and prosecutors. Anytime a judge cuts a defendent free it's usually because the police did a lousy investigation or the prosecution was sloppy in presenting its evidence. Or just maybe the guy really was innocent. (I once knew an assistant DA who failed to prove a breaking and entering charge because of the supposed open access to the building and the suspect was caught before he actually broke in. One of the arresting officers later told me that if the ADA had ever visited the crime scene, he would have found the building was surrounded by a high chain-link fence with padlocked gate that the perp had to "break into" to get access to the building.)

Juries were the ones who always surprised me, because I've seen them turn loose defendents in what looked to me to be open-and-shut cases, and then throw the book at someone for a lesser offense.

Guess it's like the old Texas joke about the frontier judge who gives one defendent a few years in prison for man-slaughter and sentences another defendent to hang for stealing cattle. The cattle thief said, "Well, judge, that doesn't seem quite fair since he shot someone, and I only stole a couple of cows." "That may be," said the judge, "but then I've never seen a cow that deserved stealing."



^^^ like i said in the disney thread, it doesnt hurt to throw the question out there, you never know who's reading....
I still don't see how anything I (or anyone else) say about any subject in this forum can be of the slightest use in writing a report. The researcher has no idea who I am, where I am, if I really observed the things I described, if I'm demented, have a hidden agenda, or am just cruely misleading, nothing! If a journalism student brought me a news item that relied on an unnamed source telling second- or third-hand tales without any way to verify if those things happened, I'd give him a F not only for that report but for the entire course for being so gullible and so sloppy in his research.

Without verification and other supporting--or contradicting--facts from reliable sources, it's all just pixie dust. This is not a reliable source for anything.



Sweet ****ing Jesus.

Just thought that had to be said. I'll read your book now, rufnek.
Which volume?



Hello Salem, my name's Winifred. What's yours
I still don't see how anything I (or anyone else) say about any subject in this forum can be of the slightest use in writing a report. The researcher has no idea who I am, where I am, if I really observed the things I described, if I'm demented, have a hidden agenda, or am just cruely misleading, nothing! If a journalism student brought me a news item that relied on an unnamed source telling second- or third-hand tales without any way to verify if those things happened, I'd give him a F not only for that report but for the entire course for being so gullible and so sloppy in his research.

Without verification and other supporting--or contradicting--facts from reliable sources, it's all just pixie dust. This is not a reliable source for anything.
then why did you even bother to reply with information about your own experiences

if you honestly feel this way about people who ask for this kind of help, stop replying to their threads



A system of cells interlinked
I thought Ruf's posts were a good read. Not sure why he is getting crap for participating...

Verily, his vichyssoise of verbiage did veer most verbose, but must we cast him vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate?



then why did you even bother to reply with information about your own experiences

if you honestly feel this way about people who ask for this kind of help, stop replying to their threads

Over in the alevel topic about Disney characters and young women, I catch flak for not being responsive. So I figured I'd play the game in this discussion and give some responses along with criticisms. And now I catch flak for being too responsive! No matter; no one likes the media unless it's saying what they want to hear.

I'm not against people asking for useful assitance. But I've looked at some of the alevel websites where they outline for students how to research their papers, and the emphasis is on books at the library, not the free-floating mix of information and misinformation available on the Internet. One website even gives an example of the questionaire to use in polling. It includes multiple questions and is drawn up in such a way that it appears to be intended for face-to-face polls, not "what do you think?" over the Internet. That website even explains the difference between an open-ended question ("what do you think?") and a direct queston designed to elicit particular information. I don't think this or the Disney inquiry conforms with those directions.

Therefore, whether I respond or not, I still think polling people's opinions pro-Disney or anti-Disney, real crime vs. reel crime in this fashion is not suitable for a research paper of any kind at any class level. There's a big difference between a stranger saying, "I don't think young girls are affected" and a book by an accredited psychologist or sociologists that says, "My 10-year study of 2,000 females between the ages of 10-18 in four countries supports the premise that these factors probably contribute to a bad self-image."

I assume you read at least one, maybe both of my two previous posts: Can you honestly say you learned anything worthwhile from them about movie crimes vs. reality?

Anyway, my second posting in this discussion was in response to Cyberia's remarks about bad cops, lawyers, and judges, not to the original alevel inquiry.



I thought Ruf's posts were a good read. Not sure why he is getting crap for participating...

Verily, his vichyssoise of verbiage did veer most verbose, but must we cast him vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate?
You're a writer after my own heart, Sedai; I, too, love alliteration and humor!



so far all of your posts have been very helpful and i would appreciate it if any others could express their views on this subject



so far all of your posts have been very helpful and i would appreciate it if any others could express their views on this subject
Well, maybe you can enlighten me then--how can material such as the "war stories" I related that you get through this forum from anonymous sources whose credentials you can't check and whose "facts" cannot be verified be of the slightest use in a school report? What are you going to do with this stuff?



Sweet ****ing Jesus.

Just thought that had to be said. I'll read your book now, rufnek.
Thought you would be back with a review by now! Or maybe my prose keeps putting you to sleep.