MoFo Movie Club - Withnail & I

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The People's Republic of Clogher
Withnail & I (1987, Bruce Robinson)


I figured that I’d get the ball rolling with our little chat about weird thumbs, here hare heres and Camberwell carrots.

Withnail & I is a film that, from a personal point of view, I find hard to review totally objectively, such has it’s effect been on my life (there, I’ve said it and might even say precisely why later), but I’ll have a go.

London 1969. One unemployed and one unemployable actor try to clear their heads by going on holiday to a cottage in the Lake District owned by Withnail’s uncle Monty - with tragic-comic consequences.

I must have seen Withnail for the first time around 1990 and it quickly became the second video in my collection (after the original version of Blade Runner). It charmed me: Humour, pathos, social comment, drink, lumpy cigarettes and memorable quotes….oh so many memorable quotes. It’s little wonder that Withnail is such a popular movie with the student population as the squalour that our two protagonists escape from is familiar to anyone who’s ever been shafted by an unscrupulous Landlord.

The film shouldn’t work when you look at it’s component parts:

1. Bruce Robinson was a first time director (he’d previously written the screenplay for The Killing Fields (1984)) and announced, first day on set, that he didn’t know what he was doing so any help would be appreciated.

2. Paul McGann and Richard E Grant were both starring in their first features. To make matters worse, Grant was teetotal so transforming himself into the Hedonistic Withnail meant assuming a method of almost DeNiro-like intensity.

3. The producer, Denis O’Brien, had been behind Life Of Brian and was expecting similar Pythonesque surrealism. He was on Robinson’s case from the beginning and almost shut the production down.

But work it does, and how….

I’d love to discuss individual scenes, thoughts in more depth when a few more people have seen the movie however.

Did you know that the Uncle Monty/Marwood scenes were directly based on Robinson’s own experiences, as a young actor, with famed Italian director Franco Zeffirelli?

Free to those who can afford it, very expensive to those who can’t…..
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Standing in the Sunlight, Laughing
I bought this film about 2 years ago, blind, on the advice of a friend who had compared Withnail to a mutual friend of ours. The first time through, I must admit, I seriously wished there were subtitles. I think I caught about half the dialogue, and the rest was lost somewhere in the Atlantic. This was around my 7th viewing (including one in England with the woman who first recommended it) and I'm pleased to say, I finally understand English English. Even that first time though though, I fell in love with the film.

Withnail is a marvellous archetypical character and Richard E. Grant wheezes him to life with singular skill. It's ironic to me that the whole thing is told from Marwood's perspective (the "and I" of the title) because in my mind, Marwood exists in this film only for Withnail to have someone to talk to. Marwood, in fact, could be said to embody the part of Withnail that has a chance of a functioning life - he's a part of Withnail, in a way. And Withnail is the part of us that makes weekends more fun than the rest of the week.

I agree with you, T, that the film has little to recommend it from a practical standpoint, even story-wise. It's a buddy film, a fish-out-of-water scenario... nothing unusual there. And it doesn't end all that happily, though the ending we see is a far sight better than the original. And yet the film is hilariously funny, and after 7 viewings, I'm seriously considering coughing up the $24 for the Criterion. It's a beautiful balance of escapism, wit, playfulness... and there's an undercurrent of humanness in it, of growing up, that is sincerely touching.
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The People's Republic of Clogher
Originally Posted by SamsoniteDelilah
Withnail is a marvellous archetypical character and Richard E. Grant wheezes him to life with singular skill. It's ironic to me that the whole thing is told from Marwood's perspective (the "and I" of the title) because in my mind, Marwood exists in this film only for Withnail to have someone to talk to. Marwood, in fact, could be said to embody the part of Withnail that has a chance of a functioning life - he's a part of Withnail, in a way. And Withnail is the part of us that makes weekends more fun than the rest of the week.
Grant is wonderful, in my mind he's never remotely hit the heights since which is a pity. I think Marwood plays a much stronger role than you're giving him credit for though. He's the rock in this malfunctioning relationship - he's also the McGuffin that drives the plot, being the unwitting bait for Monty's snare (and thus, the holiday) and the instrument which finally pushes Withnail into a realisation that he's not going to make it as an actor - all the sadder when his parting Hamlet speech shows the greatness which the man might have aspired to.

There's definately a yin/yang aspect to their character though.

One can only surmise what happens to our hero afterwards but the sobering thought is that Vivian MacKerrell, the 'real' Withnail, slowly drunk himself to death after Bruce Robinson's Marwood (and the rest of their gang) left to embark on a steady career.

I'm seriously considering coughing up the $24 for the Criterion.
I'd do it if I was sure that they'd used the original voice track and not the 'doctored' ADR from the R2 Special Edition. I'm heart-sore that my original VHS copy went to the charity shop before I had a chance to watch the DVD.

It's a beautiful balance of escapism, wit, playfulness... and there's an undercurrent of humanness in it, of growing up, that is sincerely touching.
Indeed it is.



Standing in the Sunlight, Laughing
Originally Posted by Tacitus
Grant is wonderful, in my mind he's never remotely hit the heights since which is a pity.
I agree, sadly. I thought he was good in How to Succeed in Advertising, but the film is distractingly weird. And he was a great Scarlet Pimpernel, but I hated the direction of that one. He did a brilliant small role in Altman's The Player and a fantastic guest spot on Just Shoot Me (tv)... Maybe his agent really did die... bastard!!

I think Marwood plays a much stronger role than you're giving him credit for though. He's the rock in this malfunctioning relationship - he's also the McGuffin that drives the plot, being the unwitting bait for Monty's snare (and thus, the holiday) and the instrument which finally pushes Withnail into a realisation that he's not going to make it as an actor - all the sadder when his parting Hamlet speech shows the greatness which the man might have aspired to.
What's a McGuffin?

There's definately a yin/yang aspect to their character though.

One can only surmise what happens to our hero afterwards but the sobering thought is that Vivian MacKerrell, the 'real' Withnail, slowly drunk himself to death after Bruce Robinson's Marwood (and the rest of their gang) left to embark on a steady career.
Yeah... it's sad to know that. The original ending
WARNING: "Withnail&I" spoilers below
has him blowing his own head off... also a rather sad end
. I'm really glad they chucked that though, as if you look at them as parts of a personality, W is just the part that eventually is let go of, for better or worse (meaning both), as we get older and wiser. I choose to look at it that way, because I can't bear to think of the character ending otherwise.

I'd do it if I was sure that they'd used the original voice track and not the 'doctored' ADR from the R2 Special Edition. I'm heart-sore that my original VHS copy went to the charity shop before I had a chance to watch the DVD.
aurgh! There are so many considerations!! I'd hope Criterion went for whatever is best -that's their reputation... and I'm not sure R1 offers that many choices, now that I think of it.



Welcome to the human race...
Originally Posted by SamsoniteDelilah
What's a McGuffin?
Insofar as I know, a McGuffin is a person or item that has a significant role in the progression of a narrative. A good example of a McGuffin is the glowing briefcase from Pulp Fiction. That or R2-D2.


Yeah... it's sad to know that. The original ending
WARNING: "Withnail&I" spoilers below
has him blowing his own head off... also a rather sad end
. I'm really glad they chucked that though, as if you look at them as parts of a personality, W is just the part that eventually is let go of, for better or worse (meaning both), as we get older and wiser. I choose to look at it that way, because I can't bear to think of the character ending otherwise.
Indeed, although the original ending seemed slightly more fitting in my mind.

I'm going to have to see this again in order to really comment on the whole thing. I've only seen it three times.
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The People's Republic of Clogher
Originally Posted by SamsoniteDelilah
I agree, sadly. I thought he was good in How to Succeed in Advertising, but the film is distractingly weird. And he was a great Scarlet Pimpernel, but I hated the direction of that one. He did a brilliant small role in Altman's The Player and a fantastic guest spot on Just Shoot Me (tv)... Maybe his agent really did die.
He's just done a dire string of adverts here for catalogue store Argos. Poor bloke.

Paul McGann is another one who hasn't done much of note in movies since but gets steady work on TV here.

The one established star in the film was Michael Elphick (Jake the poacher), a friend of Robinson's. A major TV star in the 70s and 80s, his was a tragic story of a fondness for the drink combined with the death of his wife which caused Michael to bow out well before his time in 2002. One of the last times I saw him was in a small part on Eastenders, slurring his words badly...


What's a McGuffin?
As Iroquois says, it's a Hitchcockian plot advancement technique, usually taking the form of an object (briefcase, comedy sidekick robot, magic potion, Rita Hayworth poster, struggling actor etc).



aurgh! There are so many considerations!! I'd hope Criterion went for whatever is best -that's their reputation... and I'm not sure R1 offers that many choices, now that I think of it.
I don't know anyone who owns the Criterion version and while trying to find an example on google came across, on page one, a simple minded but good natured Paddy bemoaning the fact on a well known Movie Forum....

Though further down the list was someone speaking rather more sense who says that the Criterion edition contains the original cut. I can't vouch for 'em though.

Anyone here I can vouch for?



A system of cells interlinked
The Mcguffin!!!


This is shipping to me today i think, or maybe tomorrow. I should have the film later this week and be able to comment on it at that point. I missed the boat on this one, but still want to see the film. Rumor has it Sammy bailed off the site, is this true? If it is...bummer.
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My copy of the DVD is a shining example of how barebones an R4 DVD release can get. It's released with no extras whatsoever - there's "play" and "scene selection" but then what? Nothing. Still, it was that good I paid A$9.95 for it.



The People's Republic of Clogher
Originally Posted by Iroquois
My copy of the DVD is a shining example of how barebones an R4 DVD release can get. It's released with no extras whatsoever - there's "play" and "scene selection" but then what? Nothing. Still, it was that good I paid A$9.95 for it.
Aha! The semi-mythical R4 version which might have the original dialogue!

I've seen these on Ebay and was wondering if it was released without the new ADR (as has been mentioned on a few forums). I'd be forever (well, a few days or so ) in your debt if you listened to the opening sequence in the cafe again. If the voiceover says 'baked beans and all-bran and rape' then it's the one I'm looking for. The new version says 'murder and all-bran and rape'.

Sedai - I hope you enjoy it and in answer to your question: I think you may already have found out by other means.



The People's Republic of Clogher
Originally Posted by Iroquois
Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever attempted the infamous drinking game?
Only once, I doubt if I could manage it thesedays (though I am thinking of getting a doll's head to substitute for my pill box). Here's a good link to it.

Quiz question - Which MoFo proposed to his future ex-wife on a hillside in the Lake District? They first got to know each other through a mutual love of the film....

Incidentally, this MoFo's car nearly didn't make it back either, though a 1985 Fiat Uno didn't have quite the charm of a Mark II Jag.



Two years later and I've finally seen the film. Sadly, I have very few good things to report. The beginning showed much promise and I'll admit the dialog had some witticism...but the plot was non-existent and ( I can sense the rolling of the eyes on this one so my apologies in advance) I was rather affronted by the stereotypical "dirty old pushy homo that wants to "arse" any male in sight" character/subplot/whatever....I guess I just expected a lot more given its cult status...although I can see why it would be popular with the student population...but that's not really a compliment...:\



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Great, somebody bumped this!

Anyway, in the time since my last post I've seen this roughly four or five more times (total - about 8). These days, it floats up and down my Top 10 (on Mofo, I list it at #10, but it varies wildly). I've also gotten into it much more heavily in the past two years. One thing I like about Withnail is that there's always something new every time I watch it - it took me until the 4th or 5th viewing to finally get everything in the plot, and even with my last viewing there were still some things I never noticed. Great, that.

Originally Posted by adidasss
Two years later and I've finally seen the film. Sadly, I have very few good things to report. The beginning showed much promise and I'll admit the dialog had some witticism...but the plot was non-existent and ( I can sense the rolling of the eyes on this one so my apologies in advance) I was rather affronted by the stereotypical "dirty old pushy homo that wants to "arse" any male in sight" character/subplot/whatever....I guess I just expected a lot more given its cult status...although I can see why it would be popular with the student population...but that's not really a compliment...:\
Well, that's fair. I gathered that the plot is meant to be secondary to what's going on. As I mentioned, it took me several viewings to actually notice the plot in total, only gathering bits and pieces each of the first few times I watched. As for the stereotypical "old homo" subplot - well, I can't argue that. Withnail is the only movie I've seen with such a plot.

As for the cult status, well, it does have a very unique kind of humour that most people probably won't get. It's not like a movie that'll make you laugh out loud every few minutes, and that's part of it's charm. I still find it tough to explain to people exactly what it is about the movie that endears me to it. In terms of comedy, there are funnier. In terms of plot, there are better. I guess it's just a movie I like to settle down and watch whenever I feel like. That makes for a good movie in my book.

Aha! The semi-mythical R4 version which might have the original dialogue!

I've seen these on Ebay and was wondering if it was released without the new ADR (as has been mentioned on a few forums). I'd be forever (well, a few days or so ) in your debt if you listened to the opening sequence in the cafe again. If the voiceover says 'baked beans and all-bran and rape' then it's the one I'm looking for. The new version says 'murder and all-bran and rape'.
Nope, it definitely says "murder" in my version. Sorry 'bout that.



The People's Republic of Clogher

Nope, it definitely says "murder" in my version. Sorry 'bout that.
Bugger. Selling my VHS copy was a big mistake, even the new remastered version contains the ADR'd track. Thanks for checking though.

Adi - 'Stereotypical old homo' (I'm paraphrasing here, don't think Monty was particularly 'dirty', just desperate and had been lied to by Withnail about Marwood's sexuality in order to blag the cottage.....so to speak) or not; Uncle Monty's attempts to bed Marwood are actually semi-autobiographical accounts of writer/director Robinson's experiences as a handsome young actor with Italian director Franco Zefferilli...

As for the plot - You don't really need much more than placing two characters far outside their comfort zone and sitting back to watch the results. I bet that one's been tried once or twice before.

I can't win 'em all though.

As I'd alluded to before, there's a distinct chance that I wouldn't have had to put up with a decade of marriage if I'd not seen Withnail & I so, by all accounts, I should hate it.

I don't.



Welcome to the human race...
As for the plot - You don't really need much more than placing two characters far outside their comfort zone and sitting back to watch the results. I bet that one's been tried once or twice before.


You get the impression that Withnail is very much like an English film version of Fear and Loathing - being a fan of both, I've noted the similarities.

Also, Tat, you ever notice how much David Fincher references it in his movies (especially Fight Club?). I once heard that Fight Club was filled with Withnail references and I've definitely picked out a lot after watching them both again.



The People's Republic of Clogher
Heh, I'm not a massive fan of Fight Club (though I do own it) so probably wasn't paying enough attention to get any references.

You've set me a challenge now!

Ed Norton didn't call Brad Pitt a 'terrible c***', did he?



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Well, some of the similarities I can think of off the top of my head...

Withnail: Withnail and Marwood talking in a bathroom, with Marwood taking a bath.
FC: Norton and Pitt talking in a bathroom, with Pitt taking a bath.

Withnail: Marwood's name is never mentioned.
FC: Norton's real name is never mentioned.

Withnail: Withnail and Marwood relocate to Monty's worn-out old country house.
FC: Norton relocates to Pitt's worn-out mansion in the middle of an industrial zone.

Withnail: Marwood often muses on various things in voiceover, writing "just thoughts, really"
FC: Norton makes similar-sounding observations in voiceover.

And of course, the fact that Paul McGann and Ralph Brown are also in Fincher's Alien3 (they tried to get Grant in, but he was unavailable/turned it down).