The Town: Alternate Ending that might've lifted the movie up somewhat:

Amen.

What are yourself talking about? I say something and you counter with something that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Your first sentence makes no sense. I think most people prefer their movies to be entertaining. What's your point?

Look, I'm not really defending The Town. If it wasn't for you I probably would have forgotten it by now. It's a mediocre fairly entertaining movie. Rather, I'm more challenging your ideals that movies are made better by some real life notion of justice.

As for my so-called personal attack, I don't feel out of line at all. Sure, it was a snarky comment and I'm not being particularly nice to you, but I think it was a fair and accurate observation. Toughen up a bit if your going to continue making these types of threads. You are already aware of the reaction you're going to get.

If that would of happened in the film. Right before the feds dropped into her house then it would of been a totally different film. More impactful as a movie and a bit more righteous IMHO. Then again it would of had to deal a lot more heavily on the character.

Sure, I realize that some movies aren't to my liking, but I think you've also got to make peace with the fact that I've come right out and said so, particularly in the case of The Town.

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"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)

I don't have to be particularly nice to you, either, Godoggo. It's one thing to disagree with me, but you don't seem to know how to disagree in a civil manner, and accept the fact that, while I don't agree with your viewpoint on The Town, that I, too, am a human being with my own point of view, and I think you've got to toughen up and accept that fact.

Eh....to each their own, Sexy Celebrity, but I'll make a point of not seeing that in the event that it does come out. I don't think there's anything to add to the story, in any case, but that's my opinion.

How come so many people think that Doug was justified gunning down Fergie and Rusty in the theatrical version and then skipping town for Florida, just because they threatened Claire, then?

As for your last question, Miss Vicky, I will say this: First of all, it was clear that Doug skipped town for Florida without Claire for the following reasons, in the theatrical ending:

A) Doug had gotten what he really wanted out of Claire all along; He'd succeeded in manipulating her into not squealing to the Feds.

B) I think that Doug may have known, at some level, that his days of hiding out down in Florida were numbered. Sooner or later, he'd be hunted down, caught (perhaps violently), and either sent to serve long, hard time in a Federal penitentiary for his crimes (which would've been the ideal ending.), or possibly gunned down by the law, and having Claire around would've put her at risk. She'd be in the line of fire for sure.

C) I think that Claire may possibly have smartened up, realized that there was no future to be had with a guy like Doug MacRay, and simply gone on with her life...without him.

In any case, however, there was no excuse for the fact that Claire obstructed justice by helping Doug avoid the law by tipping him off with a "sunny days" code when they were on the verge of catching him.

Back to what I was saying earlier, there may not have been any justification for murder, but, to be realistic, violence does beget violence. Sooner or later, Doug was going to come to a bad end, either through a long, hard prison term, or being gunned down, like his friends. The latter happened, in the Alternative Ending.

A similar ending to that in the book on which The Town was based would've made more sense, provided definite closure, and made this movie more powerful and righteous. Dealing more heavily on the character would've also strengthened The Town more.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at hand. Although this does seem to fit with your M.O. of changing subjects and making invalid arguments.


Again, none of this has ANYTHING to do with what I said. If you're going to take the time to type out a lengthy response, I suggest you take a little extra time and formulate a relevant response.

Which is exactly what I said. You said that in the alternate ending, Doug's murderers may have ultimately been brought to justice, we just don't see it in the movie. I said that Doug may have also been eventually brought to justice, we just don't see it in the movie. The movie does suggest that he gets away with it, but - if you want to make up your own ending to satisfy your weird little set of principles that you insist on imposing on FICTIONAL characters in FICTIONAL situations - it does leave it open for that. The movie doesn't tell Doug's life story. We don't actually know how the full story ends.

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DING DING DING DING DING.

One of the problems that I personally have with the ending in the theatrical version is the fact that Doug does end up getting away at all, courtesy of Claire, right when the Feds were on the verge of catching him. Imho, Doug didn't even deserve a snug little new home in Florida, let alone other finer things in life, because of his crimes. I thought that the ending in the theatrical version of The Town really was too loose, and I stand by that opinion.

And yet you're okay with the fact that, for all we the viewers know, Doug's killers in the alternate version may very well have gotten away with murder.

Okay. Whatever. Have a double standard. Be a hypocrite. Suit yourself.

Call me a hypocrite if you wish, Miss Vicky, but who's to say that, in the theatrical ending, that Doug didn't get away with murder, not to mention all his other crimes?

I also might add that, unlike Doug MacRay and his men, the Dominican men who threw bottles at Claire while she was walking through the C-Town housing project where they resided were members of a minority group and therefore, had far less chance of escaping justice for their crimes than Doug and his life-long Townie buddies.

So, the Alternate Ending, when Doug is gunned down by the Domincan men who he and Jem had permanently injured, the score was evened, and equality, at least momentarily, prevailed.

Uh, you?

"Sooner or later, Doug was going to come to a bad end, either through a long, hard prison term, or being gunned down, like his friends."

And again:

"I think that, in the theatrical version, Doug's days of hiding out in a little bungalow down on a Florida Bayou are definitely numbered. Sooner or later, Doug would've been hunted down by the law, caught, and either gunned down like his friends, or sent to a Federal penitentiary for a long time, if not for life."

In theory, I think the alternate ending is ok. It just doesn't seem like it was done that well, therefore I prefer the original.

I wonder if the op was a victim of some type of crime as he/she seems to be on some sort of justice crusade. I know plenty of criminals, but they're not all bad guys. I know quite a few guys from Charlestown like Doug, and some of them are great guys overall. I was rooting for Doug.

Again, to each their own, cricket, but although I think that The Town fell woefully short of its potential for being a really good film overall, for all kinds of reasons that I've posted in other threads, I believe that the Alternate Ending provided a much tighter ending. I feel that I could not, in good conscience, root for Doug, let alone Jem or any of his other buddies, because I feel that criminal behavior is criminal behavior, regardless of its motive, and I can't countenance it.

I think that even in the Alternate Ending, where Doug is ultimately gunned down, was some form of justice, in a way. He died playing his own game, and wouldn't have amounted to much in life, anyhow.

I know some people from Charlestown who're not criminally inclined at all, and who're good people, so that's partly why I have the kind of outlook towards The Town that I do.

I also might add that one doesn't have to have been the victim of some kind of violent crime to realize that criminal behavior is criminal behavior, and the perpetrators need to be punished in some way or other. It almost always comes back to haunt the perpetrator in some way or other, and Doug's death at the hands of the guys that he and Jem permanently crippled was the karma that he received. I admit that I can't and don't feel sorry for Doug at all and I don't feel sorry for Claire, either.

I agree that the ending could've been better, I just don't think the alternative ending being discussed was all that good. Doug could've went to prison or him and Clare both could've been killed, and it could've been fantastic. I just believe this particular alternate ending was lame. I actually think the version of him getting shot by Fergie then dying in Clare's arms sounds good. Except maybe have him kill Fergie, then get shot by the Dominicans, then die in Clares arms.

I don't condone criminal behavior either. But you know how it is; all crimes are not created equal. Some people change, some criminals are also victims, some people have problems; I think you have to judge criminals, like any person, on a case by case basis. Some people are deserving of a second chance. I've got a friend from Charlestown with a bullet in his head courtesy of the BPD. But he's a great guy, so I don't know what to feel from it. Doug committed crimes but he was a likable enough guy. I guess it's all in how you look at it but I don't look at all criminals as bad people. Do you deserve a ticket every time you break the speed limit? Everybody breaks the law sometimes, but who is to judge what constitutes being deserving of punishment? So you think he deserves to be murdered more than he deserves a chance to change his life around?

I see where you're coming from somewhat, cricket, but I take a different point of view. Granted, it's true; crime, all too often results from poverty, which, all too often stems from many other problems; lack of education/skills of any kind, resulting in the lack of meaningful employment. Some people react differently than others; not everybody becomes a criminal and/or a predator. Some criminals are regular guys who've screwed up somewhere along the line, while others, such as The Town's Doug MacRay and his men, end up being professional criminals, due, at least in big part to having come from a whole nest of professional criminals. (The latter is also true, even in real life.)

Doug deserved to be punished in some way or other for his crimes, which were totally inexcusable, and the the fact that Doug came across as a nice, likeable guy, who pulled the wool over Claire's eyes by sweet-talking, seducing and manipulating her into not going to the Feds for help when she finally learned who Doug really was and what he was up to was completely deceitful...and vicious. Imho, that, too, is sociopathic behavior. One doesn't have to be crazy like Doug's best friend, "Jem" in order to be a sociopath. All too often, criminals, especially professional career criminals such as Doug MacRay, put on the charm in order to manipulate and control their victim(s), which is, imho, precisely what Doug did to Claire, by lying his way into her heart so that she trusted him and didn't go to the Feds.

I cannot countenance that kind of behavior on the part of someone, regardless of what his/her walk of life is (in this case, Doug), nor can I countenance a person obstructing justice (in the latter instance, Claire) by making total dupes out of law-enforcement people who're just trying to do the job(s) that they've been assigned to do; bring known armed felons to justice. This is not to say that law enforcement people always act properly and legitimately (in real life) because they don't, and I'm sorry that your friend got a bullet in his head courtesy of the BPD), but there's also no excuse for violent crime that endangers and traumatizes people, nor is there any excuse for abetting and being an accessory to a criminal either, especially on the part of somebody like Claire, who was educated and should've known better.

The theatrical version's ending, imo, carries the message that it's okay to commit violent crimes, traumatize, seriously injure and even kill people to get what they want, to steal money that one has no right to, and to help a known criminal become a fugitive from the law. I also think that The Town, generally, carries the message that a deceit-ridden relationship that develops from the Lima or Stockholm Syndrome (as Doug and Claire's romance did), is a normal healthy thing, when, in fact, it's not.

So, I admittedly don't feel sorry that Doug was gunned down, although it wasn't an ideal ending. I would've liked the Feds to catch Doug, put him in a Federal penitentiary, and to at least give Claire a suspended sentence for being an accessory to Doug's crimes (refusing to sever contact with him even after learning who he was and what he was up to.), tipping Doug off with a "sunny days" code when the Feds were right on the verge of catching him, thereby helping him become a fugitive from the law, and for receiving stolen goods (Doug's dirty blood money).

Doug's punishment and karma was sure to come, and, in the Alternate Ending to The Town, it certainly did. Not the most ideal, but at least Doug was punished, and this version had definite closure.

I felt that FBI Agt. Frawley and his men acted perfectly legitimately and not like dirty cops.

I also might add, cricket, that The Town's Alternate Ending sends a different message; that changing one's life around by escaping a life of crime, or attempting to escape a life of crime, is much, much easier said than done. Moreover, The Town with the Alternate Ending also sends a message that actions and behaviors do have consequences. Violent crime goes nowhere and can only lead to death or a long-time or lifetime behind bars. I think that it was clear from the get-go in both instances that Doug would never get to change his life, because he made so many bad decisions. Sooner or later, Doug would come to a bad end, and he did. The Town's Alternate Ending also provides another message; a possible consequence of racism and ethnic prejudice. People who've been victims of prejudice who finally decide to bite back do often get even, in a very deadly fashion, which is what happened in this case after Doug and Jem seriously beat up and permanently injured the Dominican men whose apartment they broke into.

If there's a movie about a dirty cop, the early 1970's film "Dirty Harry", starring Clint Eastwood, is based on a true story about a SFPD Inspector named Harry Callahan, a dirty cop if there ever was one.

Sure, everybody does break the law, in small ways, once in a blue moon. I always make sure not to drive over the speed limit, however, because I never know if there'll be a cop who's in a bad mood who'll ticket me and give me the maximum fine, if one gets the drift.

Btw, cricket, thanks very much for disagreeing with me in a civil manner and for accepting that I have a somewhat different viewpoint. People with differing viewpoints on something should be able to openly differ in a civil manner, which you've done. Thanks again, cricket.

OH
MY
GODDDDDDD!!!

How can you talk about The Town so much?!?!?!

This has gone past sanity and into schizophrenia.

The only problem with your argument is that it's just a movie. If everything came to pass that should, there would be no drama. You need films where the bad guys get away, and others where innocent people don't. I think it's somewhat akin to disliking E.T. just because you don't believe in spacemen.