A scary thing happened on the way to the Movie Forums - Horrorcrammers

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I'm not necessarily interpreting the incongruity/implication stuff I mentioned as flaws. My post might have been vague. What I mean is that, while the final act is essentially a tasteless joke, I consider it to be a very interesting one for the reasons I mentioned up above and, while I think the tastelessness still exists in the final act, the thought put into it lingered with me for a while and that's what I find memorable about the final act. I consider the final act to be an interesting tasteless joke.
Why do you think the final act is a tasteless joke?

While I may be misinterpreting what Crummy was saying, in which case he can feel free to correct me, I think that he was referring to the molesting with a pistol scene as a tasteless joke.

I think the ending is a very clever subversion of horror tropes (something we agreed on) that inverts the final act of the slasher and forces us to view several different concepts (notably family and justice) through an unexpected and provocative lens.

I see that as a well intentioned feature of the movie rather than an accident or mistake.



Why do you think the final act is a tasteless joke?

While I may be misinterpreting what Crummy was saying, in which case he can feel free to correct me, I think that he was referring to the molesting with a pistol scene as a tasteless joke.

I think the ending is a very clever subversion of horror tropes (something we agreed on) that inverts the final act of the slasher and forces us to view several different concepts (notably family and justice) through an unexpected and provocative lens.

I see that as a well intentioned feature of the movie rather than an accident or mistake.
Fair.
It's been some since I've seen the film and, while I enjoyed it, I remember being a bit unsure of what to make of certain sequences. Your reading makes sense though.
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I sometimes struggle with violence that is meant to have a message or be allegorical or be a knowing commentary on genre once it tips past a certain point of unpleasantness, and I get the sense that a lot of Zombie's stuff falls into this arena. Ah well.

(Obligatory "this is my post in this thread")



Fair.
It's been some since I've seen the film and, while I enjoyed it, I remember being a bit unsure of what to make of certain sequences. Your reading makes sense though.
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Alright alright alright. Sounds like it would be a perfect rewatch in October!



I sometimes struggle with violence that is meant to have a message or be allegorical or be a knowing commentary on genre once it tips past a certain point of unpleasantness, and I get the sense that a lot of Zombie's stuff falls into this arena. Ah well.

(Obligatory "this is my post in this thread")
The only Zombie film I wouldn’t expect you to hate for that exact reason (along with him just being outright abrasive in virtually every way a filmmaker could be) is the Lords of Salem.



Alright alright alright. Sounds like it would be a perfect rewatch in October!
Indeed, I could probably revisit it this October.

Out of curiosity, how does House of 1000 Corpses compare to it? I know its ratings are lower, which is why I haven't gotten around to it yet, but a few people I know from a different site I post at are fans of it.



Indeed, I could probably revisit it this October.

Out of curiosity, how does House of 1000 Corpses compare to it? I know its ratings are lower, which is why I haven't gotten around to it yet, but a few people I know from a different site I post at are fans of it.
I used to be in the “House is lame, Rejects is great” camp but have recently upgraded to “House is fun, Rejects is still great”

House clearly employs every technique he used working on his own music videos, for better or worse, from lighting (better!) to editing (worse!) and he’s clearly experimenting in narrative, doing a pastiche grab bag of virtually every grindhouse flick he could think of. The result is mixed but as I said, there’s an audaciousness to his voice as a filmmaker and he never feels like he’s overly smug (something someone could throw at Eli Roth, whom I would defend for other reasons).

There are some plot elements that don’t exactly align with Rejects or 3FH (which I would say is worth watching as well, outside of the hackish first act) but those are some of the most visually interesting.

TLDR: It’s clearly a first time director finding his voice and Zombie finds his through a megaphone. MKS says… check it out!



Indeed, I could probably revisit it this October.

Out of curiosity, how does House of 1000 Corpses compare to it? I know its ratings are lower, which is why I haven't gotten around to it yet, but a few people I know from a different site I post at are fans of it.
It's lighter in tone, definitely more cartoonish. If Devil's Rejects is his homage to The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, The Hills Have Eyes and stuff like that, House feels honestly feels closer to horror hosts and the like, maybe a bit of Spider Baby in there. I find it a bit too scrappy to like nearly as much, but it has its charms.



It's lighter in tone, definitely more cartoonish. If Devil's Rejects is his homage to The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, The Hills Have Eyes and stuff like that, House feels honestly feels closer to horror hosts and the like, maybe a bit of Spider Baby in there. I find it a bit too scrappy to like nearly as much, but it has its charms.
Mos def. Spider Baby, TCM 2 and Flesh For Frankenstein with a dash of Ken Russell would be the pedigree I see for Ho1kC



he never feels like he’s overly smug (something someone could throw at Eli Roth, whom I would defend for other reasons).
Yeah, this is one of the reasons I like him, even when he's not good (*cough*first Halloween remake*cough*). There's an appealing sincerity in his work.

I really like Hostel but have had a pretty negative reaction to the other things I've seen from Eli Roth (Green Inferno, Death Wish). Guy seems extremely obnoxious.



Yeah, this is one of the reasons I like him, even when he's not good (*cough*first Halloween remake*cough*). There's an appealing sincerity in his work.

I really like Hostel but have had a pretty negative reaction to the other things I've seen from Eli Roth (Green Inferno, Death Wish). Guy seems extremely obnoxious.
Indeed. Zombie makes his music, music videos, fashion and films with the same dedication and earnestness that despite it being garish and loud, it’s very much “him.” And the dude’s biggest fault is probably that he just loves his wife too much and thinks she’s talented and hot and wants everyone to agree. Hard to fault him for it.

Roth is harder to defend on this stance and it’s why I initially dismissed him. There IS a smugness in how he writes his characters and a misanthropy that makes all the humor feel exceptionally mean (in contrast, while everyone is a ****ty person in Zombie’s films, he seems to love them all) and condescending at worst.

However, after watching enough Shark Week and interviews with Roth, I’ve come to recognize that he’s something of a sheltered dork that grew up laughing at the same type of exploitation grindhouse schlock that I enjoy and earnestly wants to replicate those genres. As is, your Death Wishes, Cannibal films and Eurohorror/giallo are often very cynical, mean spirited and shallow. He doesn’t even try to “elevate” them by making them about something greater or more clever (perhaps more technically slick) but rather just translate them into modern cinema.

One could certainly criticize him for not being particularly ambitious in that goal but I don’t think it’s a particularly fatal sin. I’ve gone to bat for tons of Italian filmmakers that inspired him and most of them just tried to riff off other “better” films and filmmakers so I judge him by a similar metric.

Roth’s flicks, like a great many of the B schlock that inspires him, are best viewed with drinks and similar minded friends. Roth may be laughing at his characters but he very much wants us to laugh with him. And I usually do.



The only Zombie film I wouldn’t expect you to hate for that exact reason (along with him just being outright abrasive in virtually every way a filmmaker could be) is the Lords of Salem.
The friend I'm doing Sunday Horror Movie Club with and I were having a conversation early on. I was trying to figure out what kind of horror she might like and what her boundaries might be in terms of themes/content/violence (because, for example, she has a young daughter, is freshly out of an unhealthy relationship, etc).

I said, "So what horror have you seen that really put you off the genre?"

And she said, "Have you seen any Rob Zombie films?"

Anyway, despite me not seeing them I did tell her that they were operating off of a base of exploitation films from an earlier era, and that it might be harder to take them at more than face value if you didn't know (and love!) those earlier films.



Victim of The Night
I haven't thought about it that way. Zombie may actually be doing the same thing in House of 1000 Corpses. Hardwick and Wilson's characters are the kind of horror nerds who would watch this movie and react to it the like they would to Spaulding's serial killer ride. In other words, the movie's making a distinction between horror being "cool," whether it's that ride, the Fireflys' little theatrical presentation before all Hell breaks loose, etc. and, well, the horror that is horror, and asking what could possibly draw people to stories about it. It would be a good double feature with Green Room.

As for Rejects, I wish I had seen Corpses first because it seems like a little more familiarity with the Firefly clan would have improved the experience. I'm not sure it would have made me like it more because I think the content that I found distasteful undercuts the subversive message.
I think you make a very good point in the first paragraph and I agree with you in the second paragraph. My wife (at the time) and I went to see DR specifically because we were already fans of Ho1kC and I think it made a real difference in our appreciation, cause it is kind of a hard movie to take, at least for someone like me.



Victim of The Night
Big fan of The Devil's Rejects. Zombie captures both the meanness and texture of exploitation without mindlessly aping them. Also, "There is no ****ing ice cream in your ****ing future!"
Exactly.



Victim of The Night
Indeed, I could probably revisit it this October.

Out of curiosity, how does House of 1000 Corpses compare to it? I know its ratings are lower, which is why I haven't gotten around to it yet, but a few people I know from a different site I post at are fans of it.
I think Ho1kC is a lot more fun. It was so shocking when I first saw it back in '03 or '04, there just wasn't a lot like it. Hostel came a couple of years later but was kinda bull**** to me, like Roth watched Ho1kC and took all the wrong things away from it and then made a "grindhouse" movie without telling anybody Zombie had done it first. But I was initially so stricken by the introduction of Captain Spaulding, just fascinating stuff back then, and then the very simple but cool story in the first act and then suddenly the movie just goes totally batsh!t crazy and then gets bleak as hell and then just when you think it can't get any weirder it takes yet another hard turn. I loved it. Just loved it. My wife walked in on me watching it and I said, "You really don't wanna watch this", which she took as a challenge and she sat and watched it for a few minutes and got utterly sucked in and then it was like her favorite movie.
The problem is, if you have already seen DR then a LOT of the POW!-factor of it will be lost since you already know the family and what they are and who's in it, which is all a complete surprise in the first film.



Victim of The Night
The only Zombie film I wouldn’t expect you to hate for that exact reason (along with him just being outright abrasive in virtually every way a filmmaker could be) is the Lords of Salem.
I'm inclined to agree with that.



Victim of The Night
It's lighter in tone, definitely more cartoonish. If Devil's Rejects is his homage to The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, The Hills Have Eyes and stuff like that, House feels honestly feels closer to horror hosts and the like, maybe a bit of Spider Baby in there. I find it a bit too scrappy to like nearly as much, but it has its charms.
Those of you from Corri may recall my likening Spider Baby (instantly one of my favorite movies) to House Of 1,000 Corpses.



Victim of The Night
The friend I'm doing Sunday Horror Movie Club with and I were having a conversation early on. I was trying to figure out what kind of horror she might like and what her boundaries might be in terms of themes/content/violence (because, for example, she has a young daughter, is freshly out of an unhealthy relationship, etc).

I said, "So what horror have you seen that really put you off the genre?"

And she said, "Have you seen any Rob Zombie films?"

Anyway, despite me not seeing them I did tell her that they were operating off of a base of exploitation films from an earlier era, and that it might be harder to take them at more than face value if you didn't know (and love!) those earlier films.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that you should watch Lords Of Salem if you haven't.
Keep in mind as you watch it that the budget is low and Zombie had lost a lot of faith from the industry for the Halloween debacles (the second of which actually really has a lot of good stuff but is just too bizarre and violent for most people and certainly makes a few missteps as well) but he really did try to make a pretty neat little supernatural horror movie with LoS while still keeping in his very, very dark style. At times, he's basically using like four pieces of sheetrock and some neon to try to get the effect he wants on the budget and, in that context, some of it actually really looks great and you can get a sense that if he would get out of his own f*cking way, he might actually be a pretty good filmmaker bordering on a low-grade auteur. In my opinion.
It's a dark movie (in terms of how it feels) but it is not a mean movie. Which is a nice change of pace for him. And I actually like the movie.