Let's discuss our fave war movies

From all the war movies I've seen, I have to say that Platoon is my favourite. It has great performances, memorable scenes and explores how some soldiers were morally flawed doing whatever they wanted.
I also liked how they showed how soldiers were not only fighting who they thought was the enemy in Vietnam but also how they were fighting against themselves.

Although Some things have being done better in other films ( Insanity of war, Apocalypse Now) or things explored more in depth ( Morally corrupted soldiers, Casulties of war) , Platoon still remains my favourite war movie.

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When I Die Bury Me Upside Down So The World Can Kiss My A$$.

That is exactly the point. Speilberg said himself that this movie was made to be an honorary tip of the hat to the people strictly from WWII. It's meant to highlight the valor and glory of the men who fought and died in that particular war, because it has special significance to him. He didn't want it to be a debate movie about whether war is right or wrong, rather it is a thank you for the ones who did fight, and a way for the younger generation to appreciate what these men went through. By adding a huge political message to it about how war is wrong, and war is bad, would have been a slap in the face to the very men it was supposed to honor. They come from a different world than the rest of us and don't need us to ask them, "But did you even try to see it from the German point of view?". As far as the bookends go, I like them. It shows that there is a life after war, but the war is always a part of your life.

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"Today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."

Agreed, except for the part about the book-ends. Kong had no problem with it's lack of a political/philosophical message message. The film certainly supports the soldiers of the war, but it doesn't by defualt support war in general, and Kong for one would like to avoid entiring the hell this film showed us.

If Spielberg wanted to glorify war, I doubt he'd have chosen to depict so much tragedy, horror, and loss.

Great post, BTW, Brian. Especially in regards to this:


Yahtzee. I think some people have it in their heads that their generation is the first to ask meaningful questions, and as such take it upon themselves to run around questioning everything. Except, of course, their Socractic fervor.

I don't have a problem with the film being done strictly from an american point of view (read: american, not allied forces). For example, Das Boot is from a strictly german point of view, and I regard it as a masterpiece. Bridge Over River Kwai is mostly from a british point of view and I love it. Most WWII movies ever done are done from a strictly american or british point of view and I don't dismiss them because of that fact. The winner always writes history.

Saving Private Ryan started off as someting really interesting but it soon lost my interest. The problem with the film, like with most other Spielberg films according to me, is that it's focusing on things that I'm not interested in. As I said before, I have a lot of respect for Spielberg but he has a love for sentimentalism that doesn't appeal to my senses. He's just too damned moralizing for my taste. But if you love Spielberg I totally understand if you love this movie. But gratitude for not speaking german is not enough for me to give it a standing ovation.

And, Yoda, I never said that Spielberg glorifies war - just war heroism.

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

I felt it was implied via the "pro war" claim. If that was not your intention, my apologies.

That said, I think war heroism is quite worthy of being glorified.

Ok. I don't.

You don't think war heroism should be glorified? You mean that the people who have sacrificed their sanity and lives aren't worthy of glory, because you're anti-war? A common soldier told to fight should just be forgotten?

You're an ass!!!

Be cool, Brian...be cool...

Yeah, you're right Chris, sorry.

It's all good. Touchy subject.

I knew it... Just because I don't love Saving Private Ryan I'm insulting every WWII veteran in the world.

I'm an ass? Well, maybe you should have written "For pro-war-people only" when you started the thread.

My entire point is that I don't see what's so unique with "Ryan", a film that makes the point that a hundred other films have made a hundred times before. It just isn't interesting to me. Do I HAVE to love this movie just to show my respect to veterans??

The word "glorify" to me means that you make something look better than it is or at least only show the "good parts" of something. This has been done over and over and over since the 40's and because this is a movie forum focusing (mostly) on movies I think there should be no problem with me expressing my views on that kind of films without being called an ass.

Learn to see the difference between ciricism of a film and criticism of the people the film depicts.

I really don't believe he was mad at you for disliking the film. I don't see any evidence of that. This is what set him off:

As far as I can tell his anger has/had nothing to do with the movie itself, and everything to do with your assertion that heroism in war should not be praised/glorified.

That's exactly right. Piddy, I like you just fine, but that comment slapped me and other vets in the face. Perhaps if you had experience in battle you would understand better, but since you've only seen war from the comfort of your easy chair...

I'm cool, don't worry about it. Like I said, it's a touchy subject, and I felt you were too disrespectful of people who are much more deserving of it.

Remember, Generals and rulers make the decisions to go to war, not the vets who die in it. They don't deserve your obvious contempt.

Praised? Glorified? Which one do you want to use? They don't mean the same to me anyway. "Glorify" doesn't mean "praise". Don't twist my words around... And don't you think I know what made LordSlaytan upset? He even told me himself before he called me an ass.


Not that it make any difference when it comes to who may say what on what subject, but even though I have never been to a "real" war, I have done military service for eleven months - only, as I suppose unlike you, I didn't have a choice.

Now..

Of course I think those who fought in the WWII are worth honoring and I think that if you read my posts there is nothing I've written that contradicts that. But if we go back to the real issue, the film, Saving Private Ryan (btw, am I the only one who's more interested in discussing the film than my opinions on war?), I think it's more a "thank you" to some of the men who saved the world from Hitler than it is an attempt to make some war case study. And that makes it not so interesting for me who is more interested in things that war movies like The Thin Red Line, Das Boot, Apocalypse Now!, Platoon, and other movies deal with: the psychology aspects; why man is doing things like these to other men; the irrationality and madness of war. That move me a hell of a lot more than what I understand as gloryfying of war heroism in "Ryan". I can understand though that the film makes people who served for their country feel good about themselves - and they should. Remember that I said I think the film is average - not bad.

I don't worry at all. I never meant no disrespect towards any WWII veteran and it's too bad that's how you read it. But perhaps you understand better now what I meant.

I'm perfectly aware of who gives the ordes in war and I have never blamed one single foot soldier for any battle whatsoever. On the contrary, I think war is a perfect example of one area where the ruling classes still exercise their oppression of the working class.

And the only possible contempt on this thread, besides the one you're showing me, is perhaps aimed at Spielberg. Only I've allready said that I admire his skills.

Alright Piddy, let me make myself clear here. I don't care if you like Saving Private Ryan or not, we're all different with different tastes. Not once did I get riled up because of what you think about it (by the way this thread is for personal favorites, not a Ryan discussion) or what you think is it's message. What pissed me off was this:

That is the ONLY thing that upset me, but then you came back saying:

It seems that it is you who doesn't understand me. Not that that matters. I believe that war heroism can and should be glorified. It being glorified doesn't mean, "War is good". It just means that people who have stepped up under pressure with valour and dignity deserve our praise and rememberance, regardless of their affiliation. A grunt in the German/Iraq/Russian/etc military are ordered to defend their lives and country, even though they know that their deaths are often imminent, and some do such miraculous things in the face of the reaper, that they deserve to go down in history. Glorified and Respected.



EDIT: Sorry for calling you an ass Piddy, you didn't deserve it for having an opinion. My history here shows that I can, at times, be quick to anger. I also do understand that you didn't mean any disrespect, all the more for an apt apology from me. Peace dude.

Brian

There is always a risk of gloryfying war heroism in movies. It puts a romantic glow around warfare, and that's what I'm critical about.

It feels like this discussion is going nowhere since I'm discussing someone else's fav war movie while you focus on a statment I made regarding gloryfying war heroism in film and turning it around to be about insulting war veterans. To you it's personal and that makes it hard to have a good discussion about the movie (which was my only intention) becuase to me it's not personal at all. The comment about me sitting in an easy chair watching war movies without any chance of understanding is totally illogical. Why did you even start this thread? You must have known that most people here on the site have never fought a war and can't possibly know what it's really like in the same way as someone that has actually been in battle. What's the point of having a discussion if you can't express your views on a film or its message without being called an ass?? Yes, it is a touchy subject obviously, but it was you who started it.

Listen, I'm sorry if I have insulted you or any other wartime veteran. That was clearly not my intention. Maybe I should have elaborated my respond a little more than to just "Ok. I don't", but very often I found single sentences being picked out from posts I've written and the total meaning of the post being ignored or misinterpreted. Then it's very easy to lose the will to create insightful posts.

I thought Saving Private Ryan was a boring tale of war heroism because (from what I remember, only saw it at the movies) they found Private Ryan so easily. It was like, "Oh, there you are!" in a way. And then it was just bloodshed, and back to the cemetary, back to Ryan crying his eyes out and letting his good ol' fashioned girl telling him that he deserved to be saved - in one short sentence! I was ready to start a war after that movie. But I would have lost because I was so drowsy from sleeping.

Piddy, Jesus Christ man...Don't you see that I said I was sorry for calling you an ass? I didn't start this thread to talk about war in general, you and Yoda changed that by making it a, "Should war be glorified" thread. When you said what you did, you're right, you didn't bother clarifying what you meant. How else was I supposed to take it? Don't give me this bull**** of me trying to oppress your opinion, because I'm not. The way you originally said, "Ok. No I don't" was not directed at SPR, it was directed about the depictions of vets. It was obvious in its intention. Whether you meant it that way is irrelevant, because that's what I saw. Once I understood your meaning, when you clarified it, I stepped back and said sorry.

I have as much right to my opinion as you do to yours. I say we're both right to a fashion. No more war, at least between us. Peace Piddy...Brian

Brian, I didn't see your apology before I wrote my last post. Sorry. Apology accepted and your views respected.

Peace

Man, that was awsome...let's make some babies!!!